The subtlety of Temptations! Again, and again the fathers show us the relentless work of the evil one in drawing the mind ans the heart of individuals into sin. He can create within our hearts a kind of childishness; a veneer of sanctity or virtue. One can experience, joy or tears or consolation in their soul, but it can all be an illusion, and not truly rooted in repentance. It is for this reason that we so often backslide in the spiritual life. We do not let go of the attachments that we have to the things that lead us into sin. We may repent and go to confession, but within our hearts we still hold on to a multitude of things that give rise to temptation or that stimulate our inclination to particular sins. Fornication in particular is something that is seen as having great weight among the fathers because it is so tied to our very make up as human beings and to our bodily appetites and desires. We can fall into error in our thinking and be corrected of this error even when we cling to it with pride. But once we have acknowledged the error we are unlikely to return to it. However, when the sins of the flesh become tied up with our imagination and memory, and when we give ourselves over to the sin, the deeper the roots become. What is lodged in the imagination and memory is easily taken hold of again through fantasy, at first, and then finally an action. Therefore the sins the flesh often need the greatest commitment to ascetic disciplines in order to uproot them. We were told in the Scriptures that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent to bear it away. Similarly, there are things that we must be willing to cut out of our life in order to keep us from falling into the same sins again. Our desire and our courage in doing so, however, is often lacking.
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:54 John Ingram: Greater Cincinnati/N KY
00:08:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 145 para 42
00:25:53 Ashley Kaschl: Is St. John saying this over sharing/emotionalism be a symptom of this sin?
00:25:53 Louise: Blind to consequences.
00:29:25 Louise: Hooking up maybe to avoid aloneness at all cost.
00:29:26 Debra: Hook Up culture isn't just on Universities
00:32:27 Rory: Being in the moment with prayer, incarnate with God, we are never alone, as a temple of the Holy Spirit
00:36:40 Rory: ?is sin a correction?
00:37:39 Anthony: When I look at the history of heresy, I see that mental and physical errors often go together.
00:39:00 Anthony: Examples that come to mind: Marcion & other Gnostics; Cathars; Lutherans; Munsterites
00:45:48 Louise: As a Catholic child, I was taught that we were forgiven if we recognize our fault, repent (suffer from having caused pain, which would reduce repetition), and to repair (in reality as much as possible). The last two requirements seem to be dismissed these days , especially the third one.
00:48:17 Ambrose Little, OP: It goes both ways. Some heretics go the way of
overly puritanical approaches to the Faith.
00:54:31 Ashley Kaschl: The thought troubles me, and there’s a lot more to be said, I think, but the penance of not being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist because of the sin of fornication makes a lot of sense.
Being that we receive the whole Christ, if someone has developed a deeply rooted habit of fornication they would have a kind of morbid, contraceptive disposition of soul that says “I want the pleasure of receiving Christ in the Eucharist, but I do not want His effects.” Even if the soul is fighting against the sin, that person still needs to be freed from that disposition before seeking a union with God they have trained their body and, thus, their soul not to seek above all other things. Obviously it’s not so cut and dry but I can see what the footnote is saying 😅
00:54:38 Rory: ?are there degrees of repentence?
00:58:03 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "The thought troubles..." with 👍
00:59:45 sue and mark: communion is the medicine.... I think that I disagree
01:02:49 Anthony: In my opinion, that goes back to the Germanic we-gild, or man price to satisfy for offenses in place of taking a "pound of flesh" so to speak. When the Roman Catholic Church became more of a Germanic entity, we used a Germanic example (in my opinion) of penance, and of Purgatory / indulgences.
01:02:59 Anthony: "wer-gild"
01:04:00 David Swiderski: I have to admit the desert fathers helped me tremendously as they have practical things to overcome temptations, situations or vices. I wish in the confessional there was more application of those especially to younger people who give up before knowing of these weapons in the spiritual battle.
01:04:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:04:23 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:04:32 Art: I recently heard about priests telling people in the confessional “Be brief, be contrite, and be gone”.
01:05:04 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:05:05 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:05:12 John Ingram: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:05:28 Bonnie Lewis: Yes, I had a priest say, "just get to the sins!"
01:06:29 Lyle: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
01:07:10 David Swiderski: The church as an ER and priest or elders as spiritual doctors
01:08:45 Eric Ewanco: I hate it when I go to a scheduled confession period in an unfamiliar church and no priest is there
01:09:34 Michael: Unfortunately, I have mostly seen the opposite problem. Exponentially more people going up for communion than are going to confession. I think many people are not well-catechized and don't realize the gravity of receiving communion without ever going to confession.
01:09:59 Ambrose Little, OP: Not our job to be judging others..
01:10:25 Michael: I don't mean to judge those people, I just think it is a big problem that so many are unaware. It isn't their fault
01:11:15 Michael: Precisely
01:13:17 Cindy Moran: Any thoughts about a book called The Philokalia and The Inner Life On Passions and Prayer written by Christopher Cook Psychiatrist
01:14:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:14:15 angelo: Thank you father David.
01:14:22 Michael: Thank you Father David
01:14:25 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
01:14:32 Jacqulyn: Thank you! Quite a blessing. :-)
01:14:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you always Father.
01:14:37 John Ingram: Thank you, Father!
01:14:49 Louise: Thanks so much!
01:15:23 sue and mark: Good night and thank you.
01:15:27 Jeff O.: Amen, Thank you!
01:15:29 Debra: Thank you, for all you do!
01:15:29 Cindy Moran: Excellent session
01:15:31 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
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