Season 7

We returned this evening to Step 3 on Exile. St. John concludes by simply telling us that exile - simplifying one’s life - creates a stable character. This is a precious gift and so we must guard our minds and our hearts so that we do not corrupt ourselves by entering once again into what is worldly and disorderly. Saint John concludes Step 3 by taking a moment to speak to us about dreams. A dream involves the minds activity when the body is asleep. The mind, as we know, can be very active; often swept along by the things of day-to-day life or by what rest deep within the unconscious. Saint John warns us that the demons can use our dreams by playing the role of prophet. They convince us that our dreams have deep meaning, they tell us something important about the future, or tell us what is happening in a loved one’s life. Demons can transform themselves into angels of light and lead us into a kind of unholy joy and conceit over what is revealed within our dreams. We can find the demons making sport of us when we so much credence to their interpretation. Therefore, we should distrust our dreams; knowing that like the fantasies in our waking hours they can be used against us in dangerous ways.  We then turned to Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John begins to emphasize its importance for us in the spiritual battle. We are to seek this as one of our most important weapons because it conforms us in a special way to Christ -  whose food was to do the will of His heavenly Father. An obedient soul listens deeply to what God and one’s superior is telling him. Obedience protects us from the delusion of our own judgment, opinions and reasons. We do not see all ends and the fact that we ignore this does not go unnoticed by the evil one. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 66 paragraph 24   00:28:36 Lee Graham: Entertaining our thoughts while awake   00:34:29 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Aquinas says that our imagination can be seen by demons (and good angels, as originally they are both superb intellectual beings), since they are formed in our intelligence. Is that where the spiritual warfare takes place in dreams (logismoi)?   00:39:26 Ryan Schaefer: At Franciscan U a lot of students supposedly had visions. Some students seemed very proud of the fact that they’ve seen angels, seen the future, etc… always seemed like a red flag to me   00:43:56 Bridget McGinley: Little nervous, I don't dream ( at least I don't remember). My soul!?!?   00:46:50 Cindy Moran: ]   00:49:09 Ryan Schaefer: The TORs at Franciscan always told us that we would receive consolations if we are following Gods will. Often they said if we are not following God then we would NOT receive a “spirit of peace”. Is this incorrect? How does this relate to para. 29   00:52:05 Rachel: Everytime I've read this, it has confused me a bit. Since it can be dangerous to speak about the interior life on account of the demons who will try to trick us at every moment, how are we supposed to approach confession and the revealing of thoughts to one's confessor or spiritual director? Even here it seems to me one has to be very discerning and careful.   00:52:10 Rachel: LOL   00:56:29 Ambrose Little, OP: well!   00:56:56 Rachel: Okay, ! That was what I was going to ask about the grace of the Sacrament. But we went on to dreams etc. :)     I think when I first became Catholic this witnessing was something that made me pause. Wow, thank you   00:57:04 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Fr. David, continuing my previous thought, I was always thinking that demons can only have an insight into our inner life based on our behavior but lately I've read Aquinas: Summa, First Part, Question 111. The action of the angels on man Article 3. Whether an angel can change man's imagination? with hims stating: “I answer that, Both a good and a bad angel by their own natural power can move the human imagination. " and then explaining further that thought: “An angel changes the imagination, not indeed by the impression of an imaginative form in no way previously received from the senses”, I was perplexed. If you would have any insight on that from your perspective in the future, that would be great. Thank you.   00:58:57 Rachel: Oh, I missed this week's class. 🙃   00:59:47 sue and mark: ok, thank you..   01:02:43 Iwona Bednarz-Major: thank you   01:18:02 Lee Graham: I totally agree with you   01:20:45 Anthony: Obedience has a very important role in daily work.  As craftsman is obedient to the methods of the trade and masters; a government worker is obedient to the law's "you shall" in regard to enforcement - especially when he does not want to enforce the law; a day laborer is obedient to the payor.  Obedience is especially essential in a medieval guild system.  All life is master-apprentice.   01:22:44 Anthony: mass commodity is modern edicatin   01:22:49 Anthony: education   01:22:59 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I didn’t type fast enough before but I wanted to touch on what you were saying a paragraph ago about obedience and humility.    I think you’ve said before that at the heart of the word ‘Obedience’ is the meaning ‘to hear’, and that humility, being tied to obedience, is prone to silence.    I was thinking about something I heard a couple years back from my pastor that the word Silent, is comprised of the same letters which spell the words Listen and Enlist. So it just brought to mind that in humble silence of our prayer we listen (obedience) for His voice so that He can enlist us in the particular task He has set before us, that we might be caught up in God’s purpose.   01:23:54 Carol Nypaver: Wow!   01:27:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...so wonderful to be here!   01:27:17 Sheila Applegate: Thanks again, Father.   01:27:20 Ryan Schaefer: God bless you father thank you!   01:27:21 Art: Thank you Father.  Goodnight all.   01:27:21 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you  

We continued our reading of step three on Exile. As with so many things said within the Ladder of Divine Ascent, the words of Saint John are jarring. It is not because John seeks to be abrasive or provocative; rather he is presenting us with the Gospel through the lens of the monastic vocation. It is God who embraced exile in the greatest sense through the incarnation. Christ, out of love for the Father  and His will and out of love for us, exiles himself into the depths of humanity and of our sin in order to raise us to new life. Our exile is simply a response to this great gift of love and sacrifice on our behalf. We freely choose to exile ourselves from the things that pulls away from fulfilling the will of God or loving Him unconditionally not because of any hatred for the world or the things of the world. It is the desire for God that guides and shapes our ascetical life and our spiritual disciplines. Outside of the love of God they lack meaning. They are to be a response of humble gratitude for what God has given to us. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:15:53 Cindy Moran: I have no audio   00:22:06 Anthony: I think I finally get your admonishment to read things in context. He can't be talking about withdrawing from a family like St. Basil's 3 generations living in harmony family life and monastic life.   00:34:10 Rachel: Like the ghetto in Sacramento. lol   00:34:29 B K-LEB: this teaching is too hard............   00:34:35 Erick chastain: moved to texas   00:34:45 Erick chastain: God's country   00:34:45 Daniel Allen: I would add that it starts at home with the family   00:34:53 Bonnie Lewis: Wait a minute.  I   00:35:06 Bonnie Lewis: I'm in Texas   00:35:12 Edward Kleinguetl: Welcome to Texas.  I live in Houston, although moving to Toronto in six weeks.   00:36:04 Daniel Allen: Can’t flee to a place and expect everything to be somehow better. There isn’t a real chance to run to something if you don’t have it with you first. Like St Seraphim of Sarov, acquire the spirit of peace.   00:37:19 Erick chastain: thanks deacon Ed!   00:37:42 Erick chastain: agreed Daniel.   00:38:21 Joseph Caro: I wonder if this fleeing into the desert (in the literal, monkish, sense) is becoming increasingly next to impossible for our current western civilization without first a radical severance from cell phones, internet, Facebook, etc. And I am wondering if even the secondary more modest type of detachment can be fully done without first tempering our use of media, internet, etc.. . I don't know though, just my first impression.   00:38:21 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass.   00:38:59 Anthony: Joseph - so much data DOES impede contemplation.   00:39:20 B K-LEB: i agree with you Joseph the internet is an endless void   00:39:36 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen!   00:39:58 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 Erick and Joseph!   00:40:29 Ambrose Little, OP: The internet has so much to foster our knowledge of the faith and to connect with other faith-filled persons (like this group). It's a tool. Have to use it wisely.   00:41:28 Dayton S: 👆   00:42:08 Art: Good for you Erick. Is it Univ of Dallas?   00:43:29 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass. Guarding my mind and heart from secular people. Reduced temptations to anger and worldly ambition.   00:44:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: In our community a small group of us are living a more contemplative life.  And it has been a very rocky road.  We are not monastic but are called to live the life of our Blessed Mother in the Cenacle.  We do 3 hours of adoration and one of them is at 12am for priest. And another sacrifice is not eating meat in the convent.  Also doing the full Divine Office.  Only time will tell if God will bring us vocations to live this way of life. To try and live a more contemplative life in todays world is a challenge.   00:46:30 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Sister Mary.  May your efforts bear much good fruit!   00:47:20 Ambrose Little, OP: I am reminded of Pope St. John Paul II: Be not afraid! Lead out into the deep. (Duc in altum.)   00:48:04 Anthony: Nassim Nicholas Talib, in "The Bed of Procrustes":  Philosophers walk, they do not run.  He is an Orthodox Christian who takes the spirit of Orthodoxy into his academic/risk analysis/economic work.  He's right.  God is not speaking in urgent panic.  Be a "lover of wisdom."  Walk, and enjoy and contemplate.   00:48:22 Ambrose Little, OP: Lead = duc   00:48:37 iPhone: Chapter 5 of the Letter of Diognetus comes to mind…. Christians are not distinguished from other men by country, language, nor by the customs which they observe. They do not inhabit cities of their own, use a particular way of speaking, nor lead a life marked out by any curiosity. The course of conduct they follow has not been devised by the speculation and deliberation of inquisitive men. The do not, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of merely human doctrines.   Instead, they inhabit both Greek and barbarian cities, however things have fallen to each of them. And it is while following the customs of the natives in clothing, food, and the rest of ordinary life that they display to us their wonderful and admittedly striking way of life.   They live in their own countries, but they do so as those who are just passing through. As citizens they participate in everything with others, yet they endure everything as if they were foreigners. Every foreign land is like their homeland to them, and every land…   00:48:42 B K-LEB: he's the one (NNT) i once quoted who said "God provides the cure then he allows the problem"   00:52:11 Ashley Kaschl: Daniel, I love that song! 🔥   00:52:22 Sheila Applegate: Great band.   00:53:12 Daniel Allen: I could listen to that album on repeat haha   01:02:41 Ren: The figure of Abraham is a beautiful fleshing out of what we spoke about a couple of groups ago: that this kind of exile is an exile TO not FROM. The figure of Joseph is one that perhaps illustrates a kind of opposite: an exile from, that God works with in order to effect good - an exile that will, in fact, lead to the slavery of the entire people of God. But Abraham embraces exile for the sake of covenant with God and is thus a far superior example.   01:04:48 Anthony: The book of Jasher has a story that Abraham was one of the few righteous worshippers of God among the people around the Tower of Babel, and God called him away.   01:08:05 Anthony: Christ's exile was also out of love.   01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta run. Family thing. God bless.   01:12:03 B K-LEB: love can be very selfish and manipulative st pope b16 said   01:12:23 Bonnie Lewis: This reminds me of Peter leaving the boat to follow Jesus but his attention was diverted and his faith was weakened, and he began to sink.   01:13:47 Ren: Ooo. So hard   01:16:04 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!   01:16:15 Daniel Allen: Hang in there it only gets more uncomfortable haha   01:16:55 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!   01:17:02 B K-LEB: lol   01:17:37 B K-LEB: i am projecting so much angst on fr. david while reading this, i dont want to hear it@@   01:18:05 Carol Nypaver: How do we not seem indifferent while “letting go?”   01:19:08 Lee Graham: A greater understanding of to what God is calling you   01:21:11 B K-LEB: jesus himself sweats blood   01:21:32 Erick chastain: holy suffering vs worldly suffering   01:21:57 Lee Graham: Count it all joy   01:22:14 Daniel Allen: I don’t mean to sanitize this, and I don’t think this doesn’t that, but I keep returning to letting go of our own will. The monk being called to the desert had to abandon his will for comfort, family, and familiarity. But every day we have to let go of our own will and embrace noisy kids and a lack of silence, or work that doesn’t fulfill a personal sense of gaining in what has meaning, and time for oneself. My examples obviously more align with having a lot of small children, but I think that (to me) is the letting go of the will that the monk is also doing.   01:23:42 Daniel Allen: Sorry writing stream of conscious isn’t something I’m good at haha. Glad you could make sense of that rambling paragraph   01:24:12 Cathy Murphy: That is the joy of children.  You must be in the present moment and only love them   01:26:32 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!   01:26:37 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Thanks!   01:26:37 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone   01:26:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...good night!   01:26:47 Art: Thank you father and stay cool Pittsburgh  

We continued this week with step number 3 on Exile. Saint John takes us deeper into the mystery of what it is to live as a Christian within the world. God calls to the heart and desires that we give our love to Him as he has given his love to us.  Ultimately this is the reason why the monks exiled themselves to the desert. It was not to free themselves from the company of others. Rather they separated themselves from all things in order to become inseparable from Christ. Similarly, in our day-to-day life, we exile ourselves from all those things which would cool our devotion for the Lord. We are careful not to turn back to the things that we are attached to knowing that in doing so we are likely to be drawn back to the things of the world. This exile is not hatred. It is the desire to let Christ be the one who teaches us what is good for us. We are to let the virtues, the angels and the Saints, the remembrance of death, contrition, be our family and our friends. These are the things that endure and will support us and our journey toward the kingdom. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:28:02 Rachel: Yep   00:30:37 carolnypaver: Page?   00:30:42 Anthony: carpathian plainchant   00:30:45 Ren: 64   00:30:57 carolnypaver: TY   00:32:19 Rachel: I think it is a way of protecting the other as well as one's own heart. It is not just about outright vulgar immodesty. It is about our minding our gaze. Because we long to gaze at the Face of God. To be able, please God, to see as God sees.   00:47:14 Anthony: In section 12, we are dealing with stymied vocations.  In section 11, we were warned against being self-appointed saviors of the world.  Maybe appointing yourself a savior of the world is like dwelling in the dumps on your sin.  The gaze of the person is turned inward on "look at what I can do / look what I did" and that is harmful to the person and to the world.  It is God Who _gives_ the vocation and the salvation.  The goal of Christian life is a genuine blissful loss of the self-awareness as a branch loses itself in the vine?  If he dwells on his fault, he is consumed with canker; if he boasts of himself, he is consumed with worthless woody growth, not fruit.   00:49:14 carolnypaver: “….delivered them up to their doom?” Please explain this part.   00:49:24 Ren: 12   00:51:44 Debra: Just going to the store in June, is indoctrination :/   00:58:17 Rachel: Yes!   00:58:31 Rachel: Go into your room and pray to God in secret..   01:00:31 Robyn Greco: Thank you Father   01:06:40 Anthony: This is why living in Catholic community is so helpful; our surrounding "culture" is directly contrary to each of the family members he raises here to our attention.  Community reinforcement of Catholic themes is important.   01:16:21 Ren: Though Climacus takes things even farther by assigning familial relations even to the virtues, paragraph 15 reminds me of this writing of St. John Kronstadt: "When you are praying alone, and your spirit is dejected, and you are wearied and oppressed by your loneliness, remember then, as always, that God the Trinity looks upon you with eyes brighter than the sun; also all the angels, your own Guardian Angel, and all the Saints of God. Truly they do; for they are all one in God, and where God is, there are they also. Where the sun is, thither also are directed all its rays." No matter what one’s vocation, it seems a kind of loneliness and isolation in this world is always a part of it, for the Christian, and thus so many of the Fathers give advice seeking out the invisible, heavenly community to combat it.   01:19:36 Ashley Kaschl: I think this detachment is harder than believing that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ 😂😬   01:20:06 Ambrose Little, OP: (Sorry, took a while to write, so I got behind the current topic..)   In my Dominican circles, we often talk about evangelization. It is absolutely crucial, I think all of us can agree, but there is remarkable disagreement on the best way to go about it.    Some folks say that simply “speaking the Truth” is the decisive means to win souls. Others say simple accompaniment. Most know intuitively there is some truth in both, but I find folks keen to argue as if one way is, effectively, the only way, while the other won’t work at all—and they can get quite agitated about it. But it’s a matter of emphasis—different folks have different gifts, and more importantly, we need to be sensitive in each and every situation and listen for the Spirit’s guidance.   01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Folks of “action” pay that lip service, but when pressed, they seem to think we can’t “just” do that. It can’t be “that simple”; they get antsy. Prayer just “isn’t enough.” But I return to the Old Testament—Israel often being a superb type of the individual faith journey. *Every time* Israel (and/or some leader) tried to go on their own, doing what seemed right and wise to them—even with good intentions, it failed, sometimes spectacularly.    I see what seems to be _so much_ damage done in the Church and _to our Christian witness_ by folks who just can’t not “let their light shine,” though it seems to me it’s more of that spectacular failing, because they don’t wait on the Spirit. If they did, then we’d see the fruit of the Spirit made manifest. But more often than not, we don’t.    Waiting on the Lord in prayer, being silent, living in that “exile,” increasingly seems to me to be the Way. Let action, if it is needed, come from that.   01:20:50 Rachel: That is why I put my hand down all the time! I am so behind. :)   01:21:58 Rachel: That is so true.   01:24:36 Eric Williams: Some people embracing brutal honesty are more interested in the brutality than the honesty. That's why my spider sense tingles and I get anxious when some people pontificate about boldly and loudly proclaiming the Faith to secular society. I think a lot more of us should embrace silent and hidden holiness than should attempt evangelization or apologetics.   01:24:56 Eric Williams: (Sorry. Got behind trying to type on my phone.)   01:25:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Much more concise than me, Eric! 🙂   01:25:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!   01:25:45 Ryan Schaefer: Thank you!   01:25:47 Rachel: Thank you Father!   01:25:49 kevin: thank you!!!!   01:26:02 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!   01:26:26 Rachel: 6 am here   01:26:31 Cathy: Prayers   01:26:34 Rachel: 🙏🏼   01:26:39 Eric Williams: It's not often I'm called concise, Ambrose ;)   01:26:39 carolnypaver: We will, Father. God bless you in your transition.   01:26:46 Sheila Applegate: prayers!   01:27:55 Art: Thank you Father!  

We began this evening with Step 3 “On Exile.”The connotation of the word, as we discussed, can lead one to think of punishment or being removed from the things that are needed or loved. However, as we make our way through the step we begin to see that exile is a path to freedom. It is a gradual turning away or separating oneself from the world in order that one might become inseparable from God. At the heart of exile is a deep desire for God; the longing of the heart that leads one to run toward Him as the source of life. The more we begin to see this truth the clearer it becomes to us that we cling to things with a sense of needing them for meaning or purpose. Exile is so important because it removes that illusion. It shows us that so many things that we have had in our lives hold no lasting promise within them. God is to be the beginning and end of all things for us; and exile gives birth to the kind of detachment that allows us to be ever so confident in what He alone can provide. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:14:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63, para. #2   00:14:22 David Robles: Dear Father David, Thank you for inviting me to the meeting today. What step and section?   00:14:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63 par 2   00:15:02 FrDavid Abernethy: On exile   00:15:21 Robyn Greco: hi , Hope everyone is well   00:15:23 Sheila Applegate: This time the link said it was a malicious link.   00:15:37 Sheila Applegate: But the zoom one works.   00:16:12 Anthony: Do you spray with Copper Sulfate, Vicki?   00:16:14 David Robles: I'm not using your edition. I have the Holy Transfiguration Monastery Edition.   00:16:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Thats the edition we use   00:16:33 FrDavid Abernethy: 2012   00:17:28 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Greetings too!   00:18:07 Joseph Caro: fr   00:18:13 David Robles: Mine is 1991. Second edition   00:18:16 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I don’t like being a boss! Haha   00:18:45 Joseph Caro: I have been meaning to thank you for the little book you sent awhile ago, but I keep forgetting!  thank you!   00:19:24 David Robles: Step 4 Obedience starts on page 20.   00:23:43 David Robles: Oh I see Exile. Found it   00:31:27 David Robles: Father, would you agree that the intensity and character of the exile for a lay person, a cenobitic monk or a hermit are different levels? Is there an interior exile that is the same for all?   00:32:29 David Robles: St Isaac the Syrian is pretty radical on this, as it is required of a hermit   00:36:04 Anthony: This keeping the "mind" inseparable from God, is he referring to cogitation, a constant stream of thought, or something else?  Is "mind" more like "nous" or heart or merely presence here?  I'm thinking it's not cogitation, since that can be exhausting and since the Fathers remind us our imaginations can willingly and unwillingly be the playground of evil.   00:39:25 David Robles: Dianoia is rational discourse   00:39:32 Sam Rodriguez: St Paul often talks about Sin and Death as Dominions. Where there is a Dominion of Sin, a Dominion of Death. Or, in other words, that we are born into a Lordship of Sin, a Lordship of Death, by virtue of Original Sin. And thus, to be "Delivered" as a Christian, represents being transferred from one Kingdom to another. To be transferred to the Kingdom where Jesus is Lord. And Has Dominion over our lives. Where our lives no longer belong to ourselves. Our bodies no longer belong to ourselves. They have been ransomed at a price. And thus, I'm wondering if this language of Exile is a restatement of a Deliverance process. Where its not that those things in our lives are bad, but that they require His Lordship in order for the Goodness of those Created things to be Received and Revealed and Shared. Being intentional about how we use our time. Or our phones. Or approach our relationships. That we are actively inviting Him to continually Conquer our attraction to those things, Exercise His Dominion over them.   00:45:35 Bridget McGinley: I recently came across the book The Way of a Pilgrim. I am memorized by his desire for separating himself from the active world to desperately seek the concept of unceasing prayer yet he does not enter a monastery and wanders the earth mixing with others. Unceasing prayer is a commandment from God, correct? This concept of exile seems unloving to the Eastern societies especially in our country where human contact is considered charitable. When we want to separate even from family and friends because they distract us we are sometimes accused of lacking "charity" but it is well understood in the Orthodox cultures that this is a great gift. I relate to what Robyn just said.   00:49:34 Joseph Caro: the idea of exile (separation) to keep us inseparable to God reminds me of marriage , where one keeps themselves from others in order to be in union with ones spouse.   00:52:27 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding what Father shared earlier, saying that we should perhaps genuflect before a newly-Baptized baby.... there's a beautiful story of St Louis IX, the French King. After one of his babies was Baptized, the Saint is reported to have joyfully picked up his baby and gave the baby a kiss, right where the baby's heart was, and exclaimed "Hello, Jesus!"   01:01:49 Ren: There is an interesting reversal at play here. Normally, when we say someone is exiled, it is exile from something/some place - a banishment from the good, the community, the kingdom - and the place of exile does not matter at all. Here, however, exile is an action taken for the sake of something, and the place of exile - that place in which the soul remains unseparated from  God - is the only thing that matters.   01:04:42 Ren: Much the same kind of reversal that turns the barren desert into a place of encounter with Life itself!   01:06:18 Erick chastain: how does exile give place to the demon of sensuality?   01:15:09 Ashley Kaschl: Exile being the mother of detachment makes a lot of sense. While we’ve been talking about exile in a way that it leads to greater intimacy with God, a direct confrontation with the passions, and a renunciation of the world, I learned it the other way around: that, almost by proxy, a choosing of Christ over everything else in the day-to-day life, moment by moment, leads one to be exile by default. Is this the thought of the West, that one winds up in exile through intimacy with Christ, while the East encourages exile to find that intimacy with Christ?   01:18:29 Rachel: YES!! Fantastic points!   01:19:31 Rachel: 🙃 wow   01:20:03 Ashley Kaschl: Great. Thank you, Father!   01:22:47 Anthony: Slavonic. ;)   01:24:08 Ren: Hi baby Orlandi!  

Superb group tonight!  Thank you all so much for the wonderful comments and questions on two very challenging steps. Synopsis: We continued this evening reading Step 2 on Detachment and  the beginning of Step 3 on Exile. Saint John makes it very clear to us that detachment from the things of this world and seeing ourselves as living in exile are rooted not in a hatred of the world or of others but rather in our desire for the perfect love of Christ.  Our passions draw us back again and again to the sickness of our sin. Even when we have left many things behind we can feel a very tangible pull back to them. Therefore, St. John tells us that we must embrace Christ with an unconditional and absolute love and devotion; as He has given his love unconditionally and without limit.  All things begin and end with love. Our asceticism, all of our disciplines, must be rooted in this love otherwise we will find ourselves isolated from others and from God. Even the monks who embraced the deepest solitude of the desert understood that they did so as part of the body of Christ; that the embrace of deep solitude and silence brought them to a greater intimacy with every other person and allowed them to see the action of God within the world and creation.  The break from the world of which these first three steps speak is meant to allow us to run freely and swiftly toward Christ, our Beloved. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:31 Sharon: When I tried to log into the link at the top of the email, it wouldn’t log in saying that you were in session with Evergetinos. The link at the bottom did work, obviously!   00:12:01 Sharon: Obviously because I’m here! That wasn’t meant to be snarky!   00:14:06 Rachel: me too. PC   00:14:29 Bonnie Lewis: I always have to use the bottom link.  No biggie   00:14:29 Sheila Applegate: mine did not work. android phone.   00:14:33 Debra: Sharon, I got a warning saying the top link was a Threat! Ooooo So I logged in with the bottom link too   00:14:36 Sheila Applegate: said unavailable.   00:21:01 Debra: Our Diocese 'moved' the Ascension to Sunday ::eyeroll::   00:21:23 Ashley Kaschl: Same   00:32:36 Sam Rodriguez: I'm reminded here of a quote by then Cardinal Wojtyla: "Freedom is the means, Love is the end." Our culture often confuses our understanding of Freedom by defining it as "freedom to" (do this or that) as opposed to "Freedom from" (Sin and our appetites, etc). And that we lose sight of the fact that our Freedom is brought to Perfection in Love. And that is it's very purpose. The Saints in Heaven still retain their Freedom. They have Freely chosen Love for all Eternity. And therein lies the relationship between this detachment, this Freedom of Heart, and our Call to Love. It seems to me that one could think of Freedom as *the medium* through which Love travels, just as a wave may travel through a medium. If we seek to grow in Love, it seems that, what's needed, is more to clear the way for Love to Move Within us and Through us, precisely by seeking this Freedom of Heart   00:33:50 Josie: wow   00:34:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: double wow!   00:36:24 Debra: Who's going to follow ^^that^^   00:39:44 Anthony: If this life is not for all, but for a comparative few, why is the monastic life presented as "if you want to obey Christ, completely detach and be a monastic?"   00:44:34 Josie: Is it possible that the solitude can lead to a kind of self centeredness perhaps in some kind of people? I understand that the focus on love is the thing that keeps a person safe from the danger, but what is love in this spiritual sense, with very little concrete manifestations (like others to serve or even to forgive) ? Is love in this case a focus on God? Contemplation?   00:44:45 Josie: sorry I hit send by accident   00:51:17 Josie: but it's also not simply a focus on self and becoming  "perfect", right?   00:57:10 Anthony: garlic, leeks   00:57:15 Ren: Cucumbers!   01:08:51 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding this, something I've found helpful to try to be grounded in is this: If it's good, God gets the credit.  I can only take credit for my mistakes. lol   01:15:40 Anthony: Maybe some of the self will and desire to propose oneself as great in an area is a symptom of a demonic attack on a person's worth - a subtle and constant message "you are worthless.   01:21:09 Ashley Kaschl: If this isn’t very coherent....I’m sorry. 😂   01:21:12 Ashley Kaschl: This reminds me of something in “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas á Kempis. That when we suffer, we should remember that we are “on probation” and that we shouldn’t rely on or place our hope in the world, nor seek to justify ourselves to the world who won’t always understand. I think that Catholics, who are on fire for the Lord or who are firmly in their vocations, run up against the temptation to not be misunderstood by the world, to not offend when teaching the Truth. It’s as if the temptation of vain glory today tries to be popular and holy, which is antithetical to the spiritual life.    Anyway, the rest of the quote goes: “It is good for us sometimes to suffer contradiction, to be misjudged by men even though we do well and mean well. These things help us to be humble and shield us from vainglory. When to all outward appearances men give us no credit, when they do not think well of us, then we are more inclined to seek God Who sees our hearts. Therefore, a man ought to root himself so firmly in God that he   01:21:43 Ashley Kaschl: will not need the consolations of men.”   01:22:56 Sam Rodriguez: GREAT points, Ashley   01:26:10 Ambrose Little, OP: There is a flip side of that, too, and I think we have to be careful both ways. We can enjoy being counter-cultural and want to in a sense stick it to the “world” to show just how different we are. In that way, we are risking a kind of pride that we're better and want to show it off by being combative unnecessarily.   01:26:51 Ashley Kaschl: Yes 💯 👆   01:28:10 Rachel: lol   01:29:35 Rachel: Thank you!   01:29:48 Anthony: cookie   01:29:53 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!   01:30:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session!   01:30:20 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. Happy to have class tonight! 01:30:21 Debra: I'm on Brave, with Avast...and Avast thinks the shortl ink is a threat   01:30:23 Cathy: Thank you Father! Prayers   01:30:33 sue and mark: good night and be blessed  

One of the participants in tonight‘s group on the "Ladder of Divine Ascent" described St. John’s teaching on Detachment as a “mic drop moment.”  The psychological insight and the understanding of the fickleness of the human mind and the wiles of the ego are presented to us in such an unvarnished fashion that there is no denying the truth of them.   Yet – there is something in this that is incredibly uplifting to the human heart. The truth though difficult to hear and even more difficult to embrace is liberating and offers freedom. To have a first taste of this in these paragraphs on Detachment is something wonderful. We begin to see that the monks were leaving behind everything within the world not because they hated the world or hated others; but because they were drawn there by He who is infinite and absolute Love. Within the human heart is an urgent longing for what God alone can offer. In Him we come to see the meaning of our own lives and who we are. We step into Reality. And even though this may be very difficult and even though we may want to avoid it more often than not, if we allow ourselves to be drawn by the Lord, allow Him to take us by the hand and lead us into the truth of His Life and the reality of His Love -  what an indescribable joy comes over the mind and heart. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:02:28 Lita's iPhone: Happy to be joining you all! I’m nursing my newborn so I’ll be without video 😊   00:02:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: welcome!   00:03:04 Ashley Kaschl: LITA! 🙌🏻   00:05:26 Robyn Greco: hi Father, Hi everyone   00:08:34 Carol Nypaver: May the fourth be with you!   00:25:49 Joseph Caro: The nuns in the movie Sister Act might have profited from a reading of Climacus!   00:30:20 Ren: I am particularly moved by the insight at the end of the last paragraph, which states that we can be tempted to disparage those in the world in order to avoid despair. Fascinating that, not possessing the faith and love necessary to find value in our life in Christ, we can turn to disparagement of others in an attempt to build ourselves up. I feel this happens a lot in our day.   00:33:58 Josie: so this is why the "why" behind detachment is so important..   00:35:11 Sam Rodriguez: Some phrases here that come to mind are "I must decrease so that Jesus may increase." Or that "It is not I who live but Christ who lives within me." That we are emptying ourselves of self, yes, but we are emptying ourselves unto the Fullness of Him. And thus, if He Within us, while Living Through us, Calls us out into the world for a Mission, then that's radically different from the Enemy shaming us for not following Him the way the Enemy says that we should, during an attack. Because, if rightfully lived, it is He Who Is Stepping into the world, through our Yes to Him. Our Yes to Him Continuing His Incarnation Through our Yes, even if it will inevitably be within the context of our own personal brokenness. Could be in the Desert. Or the "Desert" of the city. Or in the concrete realities of a Present Moment, where there is a Call to Radical Love, whatever that Moment, that Call might look like. It belongs to Him, not us. Just as *we* belong to Him, not ourselves.   00:46:23 Robyn Greco: ouch   00:49:40 Debra: What?! You mean monastic life isn't all incense and Gregorian chant...gardening, and making coffee, and beer?   00:49:53 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂   00:50:50 Robyn Greco: wow...6 is what those of us today would call a mic drop moment. no beating around the bush and ever so true   00:54:44 Carol: can't help comparing this to the adoration and attention an expectant mother receives vs. the relentless hidden self-sacrifice of new parenthood   01:03:09 Lilly: One should be very mindful of their inner struggles and not enter monastic life to ‘escape’   01:04:26 Anthony: "Monastic" and "curmudgeon" are two distinct and different modes of life.   01:10:39 Robyn Greco: lol   01:11:30 Robyn Greco: You Father? a curmudgeon? I don't believe it.....🤣   01:11:42 Debra: 😆   01:12:26 Erick chastain: honestly I seem curmudgeonly when everyone around me is saying obscene things and I have to tell them that they are doing wrong.   01:13:07 Robyn Greco: I have to go, dog needs her insulin shot. Thank you Father, see you all next week   01:14:37 Lita's iPhone: Thank you!   01:14:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!   01:15:05 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!   01:15:06 Josie: thank you  

We picked up this evening with Step One “On Renunciation of the World”. St. John‘s focus is on entering into the spiritual life, the ascetical life, fully. We are not to make excuses out of our past sins or let them become impediments to our engaging in the spiritual battle. Psychologically they can become exactly that. Shame can make us hold back from opening ourselves to God and the healing that He alone offers. Likewise, fear of what lies ahead and the discipline involved can keep us from investing ourselves fully. Rather, we are to respond as if we were called by an earthly king; eagerly leaving everything to go to him and remaining alert lest he should call us day or night. We would never give ourselves over to sloth or cowardice knowing that we would find ourselves under the king’s judgment. Thus, we are to enter into the spiritual life unfettered by worldly concerns. Whether one is a monk or living in the world, one must have God as the beginning and end of all things - the very center of our existence. He must be desired and loved above all things.  If this is true then we will charge into the “good fight” with joy and love without being afraid of our enemies, the demons. They know the movements of the mind and the heart, the patterns of behavior that they observe within us and whether or not we are scared. Therefore, John tells us, we must enter into the battle courageously for no one fights with a plucky fighter.  Naturally St. John begins by focusing on the early moments of the ascetical life. God by design protects the novice in the spiritual life in order to keep him from falling into despondency. He hides the difficulty of the contest. However, if God sees a courageous soul He will allow him to experience conflict and to be in embattled in order that he might be crowned all the sooner. Thus, God will allow us to be tested if it will perfect our love and virtue and if He sees our zeal for Him. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:34 Robyn Greco: i could listen to you preach anytime Father, because you're such an excellent teacher   00:18:20 Ren: The number of men who started chuckling just then was pretty fantastic. Caught on camera! :-D   00:18:40 Debra: 😄   00:18:40 Cathy: i was thinking the same   00:24:28 Sam Rodriguez: Have heard it said before “if we don’t make time for prayer, we’ll never find time for prayer.”   00:24:48 Debra: Is removing prayer time, and saying that we are too busy, a sign of spiritual warfare....or 'just' allowing our will to 'win?   00:25:16 Debra: Sorry...I don't know how to do the digital hand lol   00:25:57 Carol Nypaver: Go to “reactions”   00:26:20 Debra: Oh! Thanks, Carol!   00:26:32 Carol Nypaver: 😇   00:26:56 Ambrose Little: Alt+Y on Win; Opt+Y on Mac   00:27:16 Debra: Thank  you!   00:27:23 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻   00:29:24 Ambrose Little: Did you really go to college if you never pulled an all nighter?? 🤔   00:29:35 Debra: Yes! Fr. D, I've experienced that...a peace when I've pushed through my will, to pray   00:30:19 Vicki Nichols: I never pulled an all nighter either   00:31:05 Carol Nypaver: Same, Vicki.  I can’t function without sleep.   00:38:38 Sheila Applegate: This. Above. Not because I am an asetic but I can't function as a human without 7 hours plus. Carol. :)   00:39:37 Carol Nypaver: In living the Gospel, how do you NOT offend people?   00:44:25 RiccardoO: “You will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven” has an interesting ring to it. Not far, but not yet in the Kingdom. Am I correct to interpret the list in this paragraph as the starting point? Is there another step that Climacus is not mentioning here, along the lines of the invitation of Jesus to the young rich man, “if you want to be perfect..”?   00:49:16 RiccardoO: Thank you father.   00:50:30 Rachel: LOL Nope, that would be me.   00:53:56 Robyn Greco: Ive lived on anxiety almost all my life but recently when I slow down and give it all to the Lord the fear leaves, literally, its holding onto that,  that is the hard part   00:54:45 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I heard that the demons can't read your mind.  Is that true?   00:56:35 Debra: I wonder if Fr. Rippenger has talked about whether or not demons can read our minds   00:56:54 Robyn Greco: He has Debra   00:57:38 Robyn Greco: If you search on YouTube Father Rippenger you'll find talks he's done   00:58:24 Robyn Greco: I keep hearing about this "centering prayer" stuff but have no idea what it is   00:59:57 Debra: Robyn, I have one of his books...I went to get it lol   01:00:44 Debra: Yes....a 'little knowledge' is a dangerous thing lol   01:00:53 Robyn Greco: I've been told it's dangerous so I think I'll just keep staying away from it   01:01:34 Sam Rodriguez: Fr Ripperger gives an answer very similar to Fr Abernethy. One element that Fr Ripperger emphasizes is that they can access our memory and feed “thoughts” into our minds (for lack of a better term) and create confusion within us between our own inner voice and theirs   01:01:35 Ren: I love your thought about the problem being our over-reliance on ourselves. If we are weak, we are weak; that is not the problem, because God’s grace can work through that. Fear, and, essentially, the lack of trust in God that it exposes, is the real problem that leaves us vulnerable to demons.   01:03:01 Wayne: Need to attend church Services tonight.. Happy Easter everyone.   01:05:56 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙂   01:08:19 Rachel: If not only other people but demons can read us so to speak in order to attack us and pull us away from God through fear, can it be that when one by grace, little by little comes closer to Christ, in turn,  that person because of their close proximity to Christ can ward off attacks? Where a person is able to discern more easily because they have kept the waters still. I think of Saints like Saint Maximus. Where many were against him and he kept pressing on able to discern and not abandon Christ. ( E   01:08:42 David Robles: Dear Father David, I am an Orthodox Christian in the Patriarchate of Antioch. This coming Sunday is Palm Sunday for us. Next week is Holy Week. I would like to wish everyone a blessed Easter. Christ is Risen! Truly, He is risen! We sing an ancient hymn,   01:09:50 David Robles: Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. 🙏😀   01:09:54 Carol Nypaver: Easter Blessings, David!🐣   01:10:47 Michael Shuman: Amen, David.   01:11:33 Cathy: Thank you David  Palm Sunday Blessings and have a Holy Lent.   01:11:59 Ashley Kaschl: There’s a good book by the late Fr. Gabriele Amorth called “An Exorcist Explains the Demonic: The Antics of Satan and His Army of Fallen Angels” and it might clear up what demons are able and not able to do. 😁   01:12:02 Sam Rodriguez: When our sufferings and trials seem to pull us farther from God and hurt our relationship with God, is it perhaps our own preconceived notion of what is a “good” thing to happen vs a “bad” thing ultimately the source of that wedge? Given that any sufferings or trials that God Permits, we can trust that He Has Covered them all in a greater Good   01:12:32 Sam Rodriguez: Grace   01:14:23 Carol Nypaver: Thanks, Ashley.   01:14:55 Ambrose Little: St. Paul spoke of something like this as a thorn in his side that he beseeched God to take away, but God said, “my grace is sufficient for you; my power is perfected in your weakness.”   01:15:01 Robyn Greco: Been trying to find a spiritual director for years,  they are,  sadly, a rare breed these days   01:16:35 Robyn Greco: We see across the street, God sees 20 miles ahead of us   01:16:56 Sam Rodriguez: I’m reminded of a prayer that Mother Teresa prayed regularly: “Heavenly Father, if there’s anything I’m doing that’s not your Holy Will, please let it fall apart in front of me.”   01:18:13 Bonnie Lewis: I love that Sam.   01:18:49 Sam Rodriguez: 🙂   01:18:56 Debra: ❤️   01:18:56 Rachel: Yes, lots of baggage affects our vision. Throw it overboard!   01:21:34 Babington (or Babi): Thanks be to God  

As we step further into this first reflection of St. John Climacus on Renunciation, we begin to see how he paints with broad strokes. His intention is that we would begin this journey with a clarity of focus. Our asceticism is to be driven not by our own will or by fear or by hope of reward - but by love.  So often, we can turn the ascetical life into a matter of endurance, or self-punishment rather than a means of healing and drawing us into deeper intimacy with God. Thus, all the images that John uses in this first step call us to let go of our preconceived notions of the spiritual life and of God. We are to allow Him to draw us forward and His Spirit to guide us along the path that fosters our sanctification and salvation.  God wants us to enter this path with zeal and fervor. Love must fuel the fire within the heart that makes us run with swiftness when Christ calls us. We are to run with love and be motivated by desire. God and the pursuit of divine things cannot be set aside anything within this world as comparable in value or importance. God must be the beginning and end of all that we do. We must be ever so careful not to become calculating in our view of the spiritual life and never asceticism as another means of self-help. In fact, the self must be set aside in order that we might constantly gaze upon the face of Christ. It is Love that motivates us and beckons us and it is this Love alone that will bring us to what our heart longs for the most.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:25 Cindy Moran: Good Evening!!   00:09:46 kevinferrick: Yes good eve!!!   00:13:59 Edward Kleinguetl: In a secular culture that is at war with the values of the Gospel   00:23:20 iPad (10)maureen: Sorry it was on by mistake   00:30:12 Bridget McGinley: Wow Father, that insight is profound as with the comparison of the Biblical texts. Thank you   00:30:18 Eric Williams: Stone is a building's foundation. Brick structures are built on top. Should pillars be built on bare earth? I don't know, but my guess is that doing so makes a structure vulnerable to ground eroding underneath. So, we must start our ascent will a solid foundation, for to attempt advanced ascesis too quickly would invite disaster. We might ask ourselves how firm the ground is under our ladders.   00:33:34 Ryan Schaefer: I think it is easy to focus on how much energy we put into putting awareness in Christ, rather than directly focusing on Christ. Does that make sense? Something that I have been thinking about this past week.   00:33:52 Andreea and Anthony: What page/paragraph are we at?   00:34:06 Anthony: 14   00:34:11 David Robles: Father, if a good foundation is Love and Chastity (see #8), and Innocence, fasting and temperance, which take time to learn (see#10), how can we attain to that in the beginning to be used as a foundation? In other writings Love is the summit of the spiritual life. What kind or measure of love do we need at the beginning? How is that love different from the kind of love that is our goal?   00:34:13 Carol Nypaver: 56. 14   00:36:58 Joseph Caro: Wow, I really love your interpretation of #14 Father. I thought at first it was good to build on stones. . .but your interpretation made me notice that the first two people are building structures (a stable dwelling place, either way  -- pillars on bare ground might not be within building codes but it would make a house anyway) whereas the third is running free. That's a strange juxtaposition that is only illuminated by your explanation.   00:37:13 David Robles: Thank you Father. That makes sense!   00:39:47 Eric Williams: I don't mean to belabor the point, but I may have insight as a runner. Attempting to run a race or a hard workout without warming up first could lead to either injury or poor performance. So, this metaphor doesn't strike me as very different from the others.   00:40:49 Sam Rodriguez: We live in a time of celebrity Priests and Catholic speakers that can often engender a cult of personality, self-promotion, and product-mindedness in much of our current catechetical offerings. When one contrasts that phenomenon against what St John Climacus, it seems to point to some concerning implications as to the spirit as to how current and future generation of Catholics might be formed, if not checked   00:41:39 Rachel: This is a pernicious temptation where when one is trying to avoid multiplicity they are in fact focusing too much on self   00:41:39 Sam Rodriguez: *contrasts that phenomenon against what St. John Climacus is saying   00:42:42 Andreea and Anthony: Everyone is needed in the Lord’s kingdom. My wife and I have benefited greatly from Bishop Barron and Fr. Mike Smitz, Fr. Dave Pivonka, etc   00:45:22 Anthony: Simplicity vs multiplicity. It may be better to smoke or drink in peace of heart on one's own porch than to listen to many Catholic teachers on YouTube.   00:46:03 Sam Rodriguez: Oh I agree, Andrea and Anthony. And I'm not saying its intrinsically bad. But I'm saying it *can* be bad... and i'm not pointing to any particular Priest/Speaker... and quickly acknowledge that many are wonderful and holy... but i'm speaking to the aggregate impact that such phenomenon can have to people seeking to give their life to ministry.... the glitz and allure of celebrity can be distracting... and launching a ministry such as that can sometimes rely upon self-promotion, which inherently carries spiritual risk and must be checked...   00:46:33 Andreea and Anthony: Judge not that you may not be judged. We cannot know how God is acting in someone else’s souls   00:48:26 Sam Rodriguez: If you re-read what I'm saying in those past two comments, there is no judgment intended to be expressed. This is merely a caution flag being waived. Nothing more.   00:48:29 Ren: My mind is also turned to the man found building a barn on the night he is going to die, and to Christ speaking of the destruction of the physical temple, and the enduring nature of the temple of his body. Everything in the New Testament, and here in this chapter, points us towards a less earthly, less secure (in one sense) way, and towards total abandon to the person of Christ.   00:52:01 Anthony: And it came to dust because it was intended to receive Messiah.  But when Messiah was rejected, the earthly glory was dismissed..  It's a warning for our cathedrals and basilicas too.   00:52:16 Robyn Greco: sorry im late   00:58:12 Sam Rodriguez: Amen, Father. Thank you   01:04:01 Ambrose Little: ❤️   01:05:51 Robyn Greco: i lost my spot can someone tell me where on page 57 we are? thank you   01:06:08 Rachel: I wonder at the examples of monks who fell away because of the lack of clarity Fr. Abernathy was speaking of a few minutes ago. The clarity Father A speaks of seems to be one received at every moment, from Our Lord through union with Him in whatever degree and capacity we are able to in that moment.                    In relation to St. John C., we will be pulled down by fears manifested in different idols and desires. The labor and grief also seem to be the pain that comes from the Divine Sculptor chipping away our illusions, of self and more importantly God Himself. Consumed by God Himself Also, ! I am not too sure what sublimation, that you mentioned means, so I will have to look up what you meant and how that related to what your were saying and how it relates.     01:06:15 Erick chastain: the joy of virtue should not exclude tears of compunction though   01:06:55 Rachel: Yes, Erick, a joyful sorrow. :)   01:07:43 Rachel: I was thinking the same thing. btw and am not afraid to say it lol   01:08:25 Rachel: What is peace?   01:12:37 Andreea and Anthony: Listening to the story about the Franciscan whose gift to the poor was destroyed by them before they could benefit, should we draw the conclusion that building on a large scale for others is always a mistake and a way of self-aggrandizement? For example, should Pope Saint John Paul the Great not have started any of the “big projects” he started such as World Youth Day, visiting so many countries, the work of the Catechism, Theology of the Body, etc … Should Saint Teresa of Calcutta not have built any of the homes for the poor? THAT was the way SHE was called to be the face of Christ in the world …   01:12:55 Andreea and Anthony: From Anthony: Regarding the idea that as soon as we try to enter the kingdom things go south, that seems very discouraging. Why would anyone then attempt it? It seems to me that God allows trials in accordance to what we need for the salvation of our souls, not allowing the devil to crush us immediately.   01:14:00 Erick chastain: joy should include suffering and  compunction, it is not a worldly joy   01:14:54 Erick chastain: suffering with christ   01:17:04 Cindy Moran: Thank you so much!   01:17:12 Rachel: Thank you   01:17:21 Sam Rodriguez: Thank you. Father!!   01:17:24 Rachel: If you say so lol   01:17:38 Rachel: Yes, it is drinking pure light   01:17:48 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏   01:17:56 kevin: thank you   01:18:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you =)   01:18:11 kevin: Love Newman!   01:18:12 Debra: I like that the questions/comments are typed out, so I can go back and read them, if I've had to step away from the computer   01:18:28 liz2: Thank you Father!!   01:19:12 Rachel: lol I love this group  

Thank you everyone who participated in the study of The Ladder of Divine Ascent tonight. Your questions were both beautiful and challenging.  Synopsis: As we continued our reflection upon Step One “On Renunciation” St. John makes it very clear that we must enter into the spiritual battle with a zeal and desire for God; we must leap into the fire if we really expect the celestial fire to dwell within us. None of our ascetical practices, or the renunciation of the world that John speaks of in this step, can be abstracted from our relationship with God and what he desires to give us. The firm foundation upon which the spiritual life is laid is innocence, fasting, and temperance. Like a child, a babe, we are to have a simple trust in the care of our heavenly father, we must allow him to nourish us upon that which we need. Our love can know nothing of calculation or sly deceit. This is essential John tells us. We must begin the spiritual life with clarity about who we are before God and what it is that we seek.  Likewise, we must enter into the spiritual life not lagging in the fight.  A firm beginning, John tells us, is useful when we later grow slack. We will all face trials and turmoil in the spiritual life and it is our first love, our first desire and zeal for the Lord, we must remember in order to set our hearts aflame once again. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:11:22 Cathy: Now thats Divine Providence!   00:11:36 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Yes.  I thought so.   00:16:19 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Where can you find the text Father is reading from?   00:16:53 Sean: Paragraph 9 at the bottom page 55   00:17:57 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thanks but is there a pdf file one can get this from? I do not have the book. Just started with you all.  Thanks.   00:18:40 Sean: I don’t think so   00:18:44 Ren: There is no PDF that we have access to. The book can be purchased at: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569   00:19:16 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: OK Thank you.   00:20:56 Anthony: I have a problem with laying off all things.  For example, although Christ went into the desert for 40 says and was often in prayer, He _did not_ utterly cast off His family.  His Mother was with Him.  He had friends.  He had family mentioned in the Gospels and Epistles.   00:28:55 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf  found a PDF   00:29:36 Cathy: Great!  Saint John Climacus is looking our for you!!   00:29:50 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 😇   00:30:30 Anthony: And this is where a spiritual father, an elder / staretz, and Catholic Culture come in.  They can regulate us to be neither puritanical nor lax   00:41:31 Ambrose: fortitude maybe   00:42:19 Rachel: that is a wonderful chapter!!   00:45:14 Anthony: YOU ARE RIGHT   00:59:56 Anthony: Synergy.  This is fundamentally opposed to the monergism which is the heart of the Calvinist American culture.   01:05:40 Michael Shuman: This is a really good question.   01:09:47 Joseph Caro: sheen talk: https://youtu.be/5e5oPIHnHQs   01:16:41 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Joseph!  I love Ven. Archbishop Fulton Sheen!🙏🏻   01:17:18 Anthony: The more one loves, the more one suffers when the love is offended.  That is how I see Our Lady suffering at the foot of the Cross most closely with the suffering and loving Christ   01:19:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: colossians 1:24-26   01:19:58 Ashley Kaschl: “God has created me to do Him some definite service. He has committed some work to me which He has not committed to another. I have my mission. I may never know it in this life, but I shall be told it in the next. I am a link in a chain, a bond of connection between persons.   He has not created me for naught. I shall do good; I shall do His work. I shall be an angel of peace, a preacher of truth in my own place, while not intending it if I do but keep His commandments.   Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.”   - St. John Henry Newman   01:20:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you!   01:20:56 Jos: thank you   01:21:24 Cathy: My favorite night! Happy Feast Day!  

After laying some groundwork in the previous weeks we finally stepped in to the meat, as it were, of John‘s writing.  We took up once again Step number One “on renunciation”. John moves very quickly to lay out before us the reasons why one would embrace the renunciation not only of the monks in the desert but of the ascetical life as a whole. The two fundamental reasons are the multitude of our sins and the love of God. The beginning of the spiritual life most often is the simple acknowledgment of our poverty and the infirmity that sin brings into our life. We see the emptiness of this life outside of our relationship with God. The acknowledgment of this truth bears the fruit of repentance; a fundamental turning toward God with streams of tears and heartfelt groanings that reflect an interior reality. It is then that God, as he did with Lazarus, orders that the stone be rolled away from the tomb and that we be unloosed from the passions that hold us in their grip.  Yet, John would not have us see this as a path that we take in isolation. It is always to be trod with a guide or a director, a Moses figure. We need those who can help bring about the healing of the passions of the soul by their care as physicians. We need to be guided by those who have lived a life equal to the angels; that is, who have been freed from the corruption of their wounds and so have become experts and the most skilled physicians/surgeons. We do not live our Christian life out in isolation but only in communion with others and strengthened by those who have been transformed by the grace of God and the ascetical life. This life, John tells us in an unvarnished way, requires violence and constant suffering; a dying to self and sin in order that our hearts might attain to the love of God and the love of chastity and all of the other virtues. There will be great toil in this battle and the false-self, that kitchen dog addicted to barking, John tells us, is only overcome by the one who becomes a lover of chastity and watchfulness.  The foundation of this journey is the courage to offer our souls to God in our infirmity, the faith to trust in Him, and the humility that we might bare all before his healing light of His Grace.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:31 Cindy Moran: What version of the book is being used?   00:15:58 Anthony: copyright 1979 Holy Transfiguration Monastery   00:18:01 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569   00:53:17 maureencunningham: What was the book Psychology Orthodoxy wombs the writer?   00:53:58 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=174I4J6U16QTR&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1648080810&sprefix=orthoodx+ps%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-2   00:56:02 maureencunningham: Thank you   01:16:51 Ashley Kaschl: “The life of man upon earth is a warfare, and his days are like the days of a hireling.” (Job 7:1, DRA)   01:24:50 Rachel: wow!   01:26:04 Rachel: How many times have the faithful heard in the midst of the battle, the same comparisons. A mistaken notion that the engaing in the battle means one has lost their " peace!?"   01:26:43 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father David.   01:26:45 Cindy Moran: Very good session thank you   01:26:53 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you   01:26:54 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone.   01:27:09 Samantha Topolewski: Thank you!   01:27:20 Carole DiClaudio: Good night everyone!!  

Tonight we resumed our reading of Step One on the Renunciation of the world. The step fits into the larger context of a break with the world which includes, John tells us, detachment and exile. Here is where monks sought to remove everything from their lives that would keep them from focusing solely upon God and what He alone offers. As Christians we may not imitate the monk in living in the desert; yet, in reality, the desert exists within the human heart. The renunciation that John speaks of in this first step must exist within us as well. There are many ways that we have to let go of the things that hold us within their grip; the passions (sins that have become habitual), disordered desires that make us long for satisfaction and seek it within worldly goods and the fulfillment of the appetites.  In paragraph 4, John begins to define for us the various types of Christians. He does this not as an abstraction but rather as a frame through which we can view our lives. He paints with broad strokes and asks us to gaze deeply into the image to see if we recognize a reflection of ourselves. Are we an irreligious man (not thinking of God at all), a transgressor who distorts the faith in a depraved fashion? Are we a Christian who seeks to imitate Christ in word, thought, and deed - who believes in what God has revealed of himself to us; namely, believing in the Holy Trinity? Are we the lover of God who seeks to live in communion with all that is natural and sinless? Are we the continent man, who in the face of temptations and turmoil, struggles in order that he might be free? Have we interiorized monasticism in the sense that we seek a chaste love, purity of heart and mind? Do we remember death so as to cling to He alone who is our life? Have we set aside the things of this world voluntarily; not because they are evil but because we are a naturally attached to them more than we are attached to the love of God? --- Text of chat during the group: 00:34:39 Anthony: We are tied to an evolutionary metaphysic - to our detriment.   00:35:13 Anthony: "We" being society, even Christian society adopt evolutionary "becoming'   00:36:54 Eric Williams: I think Thomas à Kempis made a good effort to remind Western scholastics of the bigger picture.   00:38:18 Ambrose Little: Some people are more intellectually inclined, and God can use that to draw people to himself.   00:39:20 Joseph Caro: good point Ambrose! I agree, from my own observations   00:39:21 Edward Kleinguetl: To be fair, Aidan Nichols--who I referenced-- is a Dominican.   00:39:34 Ambrose Little: Fr. Garrigou-La Grange, O.P. is great. Highly recommend: Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross https://amzn.to/3JlEwrP   00:39:57 sue and mark: God will and can use who ever a   00:40:05 Fr. Miron Jr.: Let's return to Climacus   00:40:12 sue and mark: whoever and where eer you are to bring you to himself   00:40:57 Carmen Briceno: aren’t we doing the same thing now? over intellectualizing what has happened rather than going back to the sources?   00:58:23 Joseph Caro: “It is a mistake,” says St. John Chrysostom, “to imagine that one can in one’s own strength vanquish concupiscence and preserve purity; by God’s mercy alone can the passions of nature be controlled.”   01:02:58 Bonnie Lewis: This humility will reveal great truths about ourselves.   01:03:08 Mitchell Hunt: Where was that quote from above nothingness and humility? Amazing   01:03:14 Mitchell Hunt: About   01:07:34 Ren: @MitchellHunt - Mother Mectilde de Bar’s “Breviary of Fire.” The chapter on Pride and Humility   01:10:45 Erick: this is pure gold. each sentence of this is an outline of the spiritual life   01:11:19 Anthony: It takes experience in the world to see the trials and sorrow which result from the Curse, and we really then long to be free and to live in accordance with our nature (created and "deified").   01:13:49 Cathy: We can not have 2 gods... We will despise one   01:18:37 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Ren   01:18:40 Eric Williams: Material comforts are like agglomerations attached to us. As they increase in number, they add to our “mass”, and as mass increases so does gravitational attraction. The more things we amass, the more we draw toward ourselves. With a little more thought one might find an interesting metaphor to be made from the accumulation of accretions becoming so great that a black hole is formed.   01:20:17 Anthony: God is the "Philanthropic One." Beautiful title.   01:22:45 Sean McCune: Eric: We become a nothingness that pulls everything in our grasp to ourselves where they are also become nothingness.   01:25:09 Sean McCune: (It took your comment about material things to get this secular Franciscan to say something) 😏   01:26:40 victoriaschweitzer: Righto. We must receive. We cannot approach with the mindset that we have to accumulate spiritual goodies. Ask and you shall receive.   01:28:21 Eric Williams: Indeed, Sean. The funny thing about massive bodies is that they interact with others. Either we enter into harmonious orbits or equilibria with other persons, or we are rogue bodies that collide with others or gravitational abysses that absorb and destroy all that falls within our sphere of influence. (Have I beaten this metaphor to death yet? 😉)   01:29:14 Mitchell Hunt: I think some people have have missed tonight due to your time zone change recently.  Got me on Monday night  

Thank you to all who attended the group on the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It was wonderful to see so many with the desire to sit at the feet of the great Saint and teacher John Climacus.   Synopsis: Tonight was our inaugural group reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus. We allowed ourselves to jump immediately into the text with step number one “On Renunciation.” We will unpack things as we move forward; including the anthropology and the psychology of the fathers, the language used by Climacus and historical details from his life.  In the first three paragraphs Climacus begins his writing with God, who he describes as the source of life and salvation for all, believers and unbelievers, just and unjust, pious and impious, educated and illiterate, healthy and sick, young and old. He then goes on to define the Christian and the monk and how their identity determines the way they live their lives. Freedom is set out as imperative. God has created all free beings and offers salvation to all. This is the essential frame in which we are to read the rest of the book and understand the ascetical life. We freely seek to give ourselves and our love to God and to embrace the love and grace that He has given to us. Our asceticism is not simply an act of endurance but rather an act of freedom and love. Outside of this the ascetical life loses any sense of purpose and meaning. Likewise we look to the elders, to the fathers in their virtue and purity of heart for their guidance in word and deed. They in turn engage us not as impartial observers or analysts but rather as those who are fellow strugglers in the pursuit of God and of the kingdom. It is the love and desire for the salvation of those in their charge that guides and directs their care of others. --- 19:27:40 From FrDavid Abernethy, CO : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf   19:29:16 From siobhan from pittsburgh : Hi Im Sandra   19:29:32 From Michele : Dave and Michele Berthelsen are here.   19:29:52 From siobhan from pittsburgh : not Siobhan   19:29:56 From Rachel : 🙏🏼   19:30:25 From kevinferrick : Hello everyone,   newbie here from Boston.   Hope I navigate the zoom alright   19:30:45 From Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt : Hi, God bless, Sr. Mary of our Divine Savior   19:31:09 From Amil : Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, we are all pretty tiny.   19:31:23 From siobhan from pittsburgh : I love it!!   19:32:24 From Ambrose Little : https://pghco.org/climacus   19:33:24 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Kevin!   19:33:46 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Sr. Mary!   19:40:39 From Joseph Caro : If there is a handout, can the link be posted here? thanks!   19:40:58 From Sean McCune : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf   19:41:55 From Miika : Good Morning everyone! First time live! Miika from Finland   19:42:30 From Carol Nypaver : Very cool!  Welcome, Miika!   19:42:37 From Carole DiClaudio : Hello Miika!!!   19:42:53 From Rachel : 2-3 years! I  hope I have that many ( blessed) years.   19:43:35 From Carole DiClaudio : :)   19:47:38 From Erick Chastain : Sorry, I ended up breaking into this zoom room by pure luck I guessed the link. I didn't sign up   19:48:01 From Ashley Kaschl : 😂   19:48:31 From Debra : I always fumble around to find the link   19:48:31 From Erick Chastain : If Fr wants me to leave since I didn't sign up, he or Ren can notify me   19:48:47 From Debra : BTW...thank you Ambrose for the link!   19:49:03 From Ambrose Little : Write it on your heart and on your mind.   19:49:15 From Debra : It's a weird URL   19:52:27 From Ren : No worries Erick :-) All are welcome. Even the hackers ;-)   19:52:55 From Carol Nypaver : 🤣   19:52:55 From Fr. Miron Jr. : 🤣   19:54:02 From Anthony : Wow, this is different than - as in other teachings - "elect" and "reprobate"   19:55:42 From Ren : WOW. Beautiful.   19:56:20 From Jim Milholland : How poetic   20:02:48 From Anthony : "These Noetic creatures" as Father said.  That reminds me of this phrase used by St. Gregory of Narek: "Rational Flock."   20:02:59 From Fr. Miron Jr. : https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3954VB8PGOFPM&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1646874171&sprefix=ortodog+psychoterapy%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-2   20:05:07 From Rachel : Yes!!   20:06:45 From Fr. Miron Jr. : same seminary experince duing my years...   20:10:26 From Lilly : I didn’t know him until last year   20:10:58 From Gilmar Siqueira : Translated into Spanish by Friar Luis de Granada :)   20:12:34 From victoriaschweitzer : Good point, amil !   20:13:40 From Carole DiClaudio : I thought the same thing, Amil!   20:19:36 From Amil : 🕊️   20:22:37 From Rachel : Bingo   20:27:51 From St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education : We simply have to keep ourselves focused on God. No matter what our 'poverty' limitations....not looking at each other's abilities or place in the world...just keep focused on God and ask for God's help.   20:34:03 From maureencunningham : Thank you   20:34:07 From Miika : Sadly theological education in the Nordic countries is also very one-sidedly rationality centered. (At least amongst us "protestants" -not that I protest anything personally...as far as I know)   20:34:22 From Rachel : lol Carol   20:35:12 From iPhone : thank you   20:35:18 From Rachel : Thank you Father and everyone. God bless!   20:35:23 From Bob and Tara Bartz : Thank you!   20:35:24 From Ben David : good night good fight   20:35:30 From Mitchell Hunt : Thank you Father   20:35:31 From Michele : Thank you!