Season 7

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Appendix "To The Shepherd", Part IV

As one moves along through this text, one begins to understand that St. John Climacus is not only addressing elders but all those who have the care of souls. Fundamentally this is every Christian!There is no radical individualism in our faith, nor do we see ourselves disconnected from the sins of others and the burdens they bear. Love, compels us to be attentive to the other; not in a condescending fashion, but attending to them with the tenderness and compassion that we have received from Christ. Our Lord is the archetype for us and the consolation that we receive from his hand we are to offer to others freely.
The fundamental virtues of an elder are humility and obedience; that is, truthful living and the capacity to listen. How can one serve others when there is any focus on the self or when they are still in the grip of the passions? There is  nothing so unseemly as an angry elder - one who looks at others with a harsh eye or is always quick to investigate trifling sins. The elder must be driven by love that makes him ever vigilant and watchful of those things that can be obstacles to the spiritual development of those in his care. He cannot be lax in fulfilling this responsibility or timid and cowardly in offering correction. He must be willing to offer counsel even when there is no thirst for understanding. 
One begins to understand that such a responsibility is carried out with fear and trembling. The care of souls carries within it the Cross; it is crucified love that guides the elder and gives light to his path.  He is never a passive observer, but one who like Christ looks out and acknowledges the crowds as being sheep without a shepherd; in fact, as sheep already mauled by the wolves and in desperate need of healing. Thus, the capacity to care for others in this fashion is not something that can be set aside; nor can the abilities that God has given to an elder be buried in the ground with drawing down His wrath.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:34 Una: Does Father send out handouts in email?
00:10:08 Una: Could I get one at Una.McManus@gmail.com?
00:10:25 Adam Paige: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/22eb6d8c-a2f9-1ed8-1270-b5bcd86c22f6/To_the_Shepherd.01.pdf
00:10:31 Una: Thank you
00:10:43 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍
00:12:22 Una: Yes for me on New Year DAy
00:12:26 Sam: Greetings from Hot 🔥 Australia Fr
00:12:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Greetings from Hot ..." with 🇦🇺
00:18:01 paul g.: Amen
00:21:55 Bob Cihak, AZ: Amen, Amen!
00:33:54 Mary Clare Wax: Fr. it is so refreshing listening to you. We love your contemplative spirit and your love for the desert father teachings. Thank you. We appreciate your present sharing on the priesthood. So true.
00:34:22 susan: Amen
00:36:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍
00:37:22 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍
00:38:31 Andres Oropeza: Is it always pride when you have trouble trusting your spiritual Father because of his manner of life or that of his monks? I feel like I’m judging him/them but I also have serious misgivings. Could it be just a test of obedience where the Lord wants me to obey even with the misgivings, to have faith before understanding ?
00:41:56 Bob Cihak, AZ: As the fathers and you say, the wisdom required to be a spiritual leader is learned from and with experience, not just book learning, which usually required a lot of time.
00:43:08 MOME hermits: I (sr charista maria) believe Mary's special presence in our times helps to make up for what is lacking in the priesthood today, when we have a special relationship with her.
00:49:32 David: The orthodox later republished that as Unseen Warfare by Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and Theophan the Recluse
00:49:47 Kate : Father, could you address what to do when one experiences a spiritual father who is not mentally healthy and whose guidance not sound?  In this case, I would think that one must pay attention to their misgivings.  We lived through this and sadly witnessed much damage done to souls.
00:50:24 Maureen Cunningham: Christ was betrayed
01:14:07 Victor - WV: Thanks to all, to Father as well. Merry Christmas! 🎄 🙏🏼
01:14:26 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍
01:14:47 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍
01:16:02 Laura: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄
01:16:17 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄
01:20:00 Andres Oropeza: I think it was in this book where it describes the spiritual father being like Moses stretching his arms out so his child can pass through the sea unharmed. Beautiful image Off topic, but does it make a bad confession if you feel like you should’ve confessed to your spiritual father that you judged him specifically (vs just judging people) but didn’t because of anxiety ?
01:23:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
01:23:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Happy Christmas everyone🎄
01:23:29 David: Thank you Father and God Bless you and your mother! Merry Christmas! As we celebrate his birth may he be reborn anew in our hearts.
01:24:17 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:24:27 Rachel: Thank you father
01:24:28 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father.
01:24:36 liz sabath: Thank you Father!!
01:24:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: BleSSED Christmas~

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Appendix "To The Shepherd", Part III

Sometimes during a group it is as if a light comes on that illuminates some aspect of life in a magnificent fashion and that speaks to each person in the group whatever their background or station in life. This was true in particular this evening as we continued to discuss St. John’s writing “To the Shepherd” on the responsibilities of a spiritual elder. As we made our way through the text, it became clear that St. John’s teaching about the care of souls applies to all of those who are responsible for the formation of others; not only priests or religious, but also parents, teachers, friends, etc. 
Not one of us is free from the charge of the salvation of others; aiding them through our prayers, taking opportune moments to clarify their understanding of the faith, being living witnesses of the gospel and the love of the cross. All of us have the responsibility of seeking purity of heart and freedom from the passions in order that we might be able to discern with clarity and humility the needs of those around us. Lacking this, St. John tells us, we undermine our capacity to be well disposed and compassionate to each individual for whom we are responsible or who enters our life. How is it that we can serve others if we cannot discern good from evil and everything in between?
In fact, St. John tells us it is a great disgrace for a superior to pray for or hold forward spiritual gifts to others that he himself is not acquired. How is it that he can faithfully guide others to God and to become partakers of the glory of God if he has no understanding of this within his own heart. Experience is the truest teacher and if the superior lacks that experience, he may only bring harm to others.
Those who are spiritual elders, fathers, or mothers, must not be tempted to set aside this role in order to enjoy worldly friendship with those in their charge. It can be a natural thing to want companionship and to some extent this can exist. However, if a familiarity develops between the superior and others, he may lose the capacity to guide and feel constrained to do the bidding of others; never to contradict them, refuse them, or correct them.
The elder must be pure of heart and able to understand the interior life and also the realities that sanctify us within the life of the church. The elder must be able to create a culture that forms a mind and heart directed toward God, the love of neighbor and the love of virtue. He must be able to discern the emotional capacity and maturity of others, so as not to push too hard and risk breaking their spirit or neglect giving counsel or correction of those who are quick witted and naturally gifted.
Such purity of heart alone allows the elder to perceive supernatural realities and to understand the struggles that individuals have with multiple demons. The elder must be able to cure passions thought by others to be incurable. In this sense, he must have truly put on the mind of Christ and be the most humble and obedient member of the community.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 251, # 14
 
00:19:16 carol_000: Is much known about the repentance of Joseph's brothers or God chastising them for their treatment of Joseph
 
00:26:27 David: I think this is a big problem also in families. My oldest son felt I was often to hard on him. Now that he is 27 he has mentioned several times that I was the only one that loved him and was always there. It is really hard but being a father is different than being a friend only there to enjoy the good times and not try to guide someone to what has value.
 
00:28:48 Art: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with 👍
 
00:28:52 Catherine Eisenbrandt: Father when you are entrusted to forming children it is easy to understand friendship with angels and saints is beneficial for them but how can you explain that to a child who is suffering from isolation
 
00:29:17 David: Well from 15-22 we are idiots but we get smarter and as time goes on even seen as wise. ha ha
 
00:35:31 Anthony: The cultivation of religious imagination must be cultivated so as to distinguish this "friendship" from "imaginary friend" or a dialogue in the mind with oneself.
 
00:36:38 Carol Roper: My 10 year old loves those books
 
00:37:27 Carol Roper: They’re like graphic novels
 
00:37:34 David: One nice tradtion with small t is in Spain where you celebrate "Tu Santo" or your saints day with the same passion as a birthday. Cake, read the life etc. I did this with my kids when they were younger and it makes an impact later.
 
00:38:36 David: The saints let the light of God enter into our life and saints through the windows.
 
00:39:15 Una: Who is this author?
 
00:39:54 Myles Davidson: Replying to "Who is this author?"
 
https://creativeorthodox.com/
 
00:40:10 Una: Thank you
 
00:41:43 Art: https://www.themerrybeggars.com/shows/the-saints 
The Saints: Adventures of Faith and Courage
A daily podcast bringing the Saints to life with award-winning actors, writers, and sound designers.
Thrilling and inspiring stories to ignite your family's faith. Intended for children but I really enjoy them too.  My sons really enjoyed the episode on Moses the Black.
 
00:42:10 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍
 
00:42:11 Anna Lalonde: That's what we do!
 
00:43:27 David: This is nice at bed time for kids or better to read with your own voice. LibriVox
 
00:43:44 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍🏼
 
00:44:07 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼
 
00:45:07 carol_000: Thank you All for the Links
 
00:45:52 Art: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼
 
00:46:07 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to This is nice at bed ... with "👍🏼"
 
00:46:20 Anna Lalonde: Thank you David!
 
00:49:43 Anthony: Mass media kills imagination and familyblife
 
00:50:28 David: The way of the Pilgrim really impacted me and how this moves the orthodox both to the divine liturgy and the Philokalhia. Where in the west se send people to St. Thomas before they can really understand it. I like the hospital of the sick how do I deal with all the 8 evil thoughts not intellectual gymnastics and memorizing proofs. As least I have always struggled with discernment I don't get a lot of that from intellect but focusing on being close to God. When I taught a mentor said: don't teach them to memorize you only need to teach "the love of learning" and learning will follow. I think the same is true for faith- learn to love God the other things fall into place.
 
00:53:37 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
Way of the Pilgrim had a big impact on me too
 
00:53:48 Carol Roper: Reacted to "https://www.themerry…" with 👍
 
00:53:58 Carol Roper: Reacted to "This is nice at bed …" with 👍🏼
 
00:54:03 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
👍 I thought it was just me. Thanks
 
00:54:16 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "👍 I thought it was ..." with 👍
 
00:54:55 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
@David Inspired me to pray the Jesus prayer to a much greater degree
 
00:55:45 Anna Lalonde: Yes, love of learning is what we do. My children are into all kinds of things now because they love learning.
 
00:55:54 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
Me too I always carry a prayer rope with me now
 
00:56:15 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Me too I always carr..." with 👍
 
00:56:44 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
Instead of wasting time I can dedicate that time to God. Waiting at a Dr. office with my Dad, stuck in traffic
 
00:56:59 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
@David Yes, me too
 
00:57:29 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."
 
Thanks ! Nice to know there are at least two of us. ha ha
 
00:57:40 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks ! Nice to kno..." with 🙏
 
00:59:17 Anthony: The Holy Trinity is subliminal. Most real & underlying reality. More real and more clear than "real life."
 
01:01:24 David: Replying to "Thank you David!"
 
My pleasure Anna I hope you find it helpful. I really struggled raising my kids alone with time
 
01:02:01 Vanessa: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with ❤️
 
01:04:13 Maureen Cunningham: How long was the early church . Hour or many hours
 
01:16:06 susan: physics break through   all atoms interacting/from beginning to end throughout all time/ action impacts all the atoms one way or another  gave me such a deeper understanding of Jesus liturgy Eucharist the actions of the Mass present to all time and how Jesus 2000 years ago can actually be Here in the Mass now  made liturgy real to me. Helps me to see Jesus real with me now (Jesus prayer)
 
01:16:11 Aric B: Regarding the subject of paragraph #17. I have been reading a book that is about us living with Christs mysteries as also our mysteries to be experienced throughout liturgy and the liturgical year.
 
01:19:11 David: It is not what we get out of the mass in entertainment but what we bring to the table of the Lord. I see this as a big difference and evangelical friends are often dumbstruck when I mention this. The book "The supper of the Lamb" has really helped many come home in my experience.
 
01:22:06 Victor - WV: Thank you, Father, & all.
 
01:22:20 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father &  everyone
 
01:22:33 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you
 
01:23:11 Cindy Moran: Great session tonight! Thank you, Father.
 
01:23:13 Jeff O.: Thank you Father! Great to be with you all.
 
01:23:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊
 
01:23:18 Aric B: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:22 David: Thank you father and may God bless you and your mother!
 
01:23:35 carol_000: Thank you Father
 
01:23:42 Alexandra: Thank you everyone
 
01:24:41 David: God does not speak through one of us but all of us is what my Grandmother always said. Thank you Father for being our guide
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Appendix "To The Shepherd", Part II

We continued our reading and discussion of the treatment and cures that the spiritual father must understand for every malady that afflicts a person in the spiritual life. He must understand not only how to apply them but also the manner they are applied to each individual person with their unique needs. No person is the same and in the spiritual battle the elder must understand the subtle manifestations of spiritual illness and the manner in which various cures might be applied.
One of the most striking aspects of tonight’s discussion was on the capacity of the elder to be free from and endure nausea and to be able to untiringly strive to dispel the stench of vomit. Of course, St. John is speaking about sin itself and the willingness of the elder to enter into the darkness in which the other person finds himself; to descend into their hell and to endure the stench of sin itself. The capacity to do this comes through engaging in the spiritual battle throughout the course of one’s life and attending in obedience to the counsel of one’s own spiritual father. The lack of nausea and the ability to endure the stench of the vomit of sin comes from having long been immersed in it through one’s own struggles. Compassion is born in a powerful way through the experience of common trials. 
Beyond this, St. John tells that the shepherd must experience blessed dispassion. In other words, he must be free of the passions that would blind him and his ability to discern the particular needs of those in his care. This discernment allows the elder to illuminate the path that leads to repentance and so gives him the capacity to “resurrect every dead soul”.
This is the identity that every Christian soul should seek to embrace. While it’s true that not everyone is called to be a spiritual elder, every Christian by virtue of their baptism is called to the holiness described here and given the responsibility for the care of souls in their midst. We are responsible for the salvation and goodwill of those around us as much as we are responsible for our own.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:47 Anna Lalonde: Well my kids learned to walk up our hallway wall today so you up for that Father? 😄
 
00:08:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...."
 
00:10:11 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0
 
00:10:52 Lori Hatala: link for To the Shephard pdf
 
00:11:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...."
 
00:25:47 Anna Lalonde: Anyone have a link for buying this version?
 
00:27:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: The current book is The Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus at https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/569 .
 
00:41:33 Anna Lalonde: Replying to "The current book is ..." 
 
 Thank you! Ordered
 
00:43:28 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "The current book is ..."
 
Good! It's on the expensive side, but is well worth it; the quality of the book exceeds its price.
 
00:45:11 Anna Lalonde: In Roman Catholic there are Spiritual Director certificates. But I love using Desert Fathers for this aspect with my clients.
 
00:51:23 Anna Lalonde: I prefer Catholic Coaching versus Therapy because it's an integrative of the soul as the trauma is affecting the soul.
 
00:55:52 Myles Davidson: Jung had very high praise for the Catholic Mass and felt that Catholicism was the closest thing to psychotherapy Interestingly enough
 
00:58:20 David: There is a nice podcast by Fr. Joshua Macoul called "Healing the Unresolved" but I don't know what school he ascribes to but does mention the desert fathers sometimes.
 
01:01:35 David: In the presence of nothing, everything is revealed. Can't remember which desert father wrote this but it stuck in my head.
 
01:02:40 Kate : What about the role of the grace of priesthood in shepherding of souls?  I know there are some Catholic spiritual direction training programs that train laity to be spiritual directors.  But what about the grace of priesthood in leading souls?  Isn’t this something that cannot be “trained” so to speak?
 
01:07:05 Anna Lalonde: I agree Father! As a certified Catholic Coach and a Certified Catholic Spiritual Director. My living the ascetic life and domestic monastics while studying desert fathers is very great so I can serve souls.
 
01:07:08 David: Not a criticism but it seems with all the honey, coffee, handicrafts and items monasteries produce it might be better to offer spiritual direction and donations through patreon or something?  My old parish priest mentioned he did not have capacity to offer spiritual direction to all the young people we had in catechism.  There seems to be a great lack of this for most parishes.
 
01:07:49 Anna Lalonde: Agree David!
 
01:17:26 Phil: Thank you, Father and Victor, for your responses.
 
01:18:16 Céline: Thank you father God Bless you.
 
01:18:23 Victor - WV: Thank you!
 
01:19:23 Bob Cihak, AZ: Sometimes it's focus, not digression.
 
01:19:24 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:19:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all!
 
01:20:10 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:11 David: Thank you Father. May God bless you and your mother!
 
01:20:17 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Appendix "To The Shepherd"

Having completed the 30th Step of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, we are blessed to receive from the hand of St. John one additional bit of writing – “To the Shepherd“. It is here that John writes to the Abbot of the neighboring monastery who first requested that John produce for his monastery a treatise on the spiritual life.  He turns his attention now to this shepherd of souls – he who is responsible for the care of those entrusted to him. For the Abbot, it would be the monks of his monastery, and for those within the church, it would be the spiritual father. One might also say that the words written here would apply to all of those who offer spiritual care to others, including and especially mothers and fathers. 
John begins by telling us that the shepherd is he who seeks out to set aright the lost sheep. He does this not primarily through words, but by means of guilelessness, zeal and prayer; that is, by example. The shepherd above all must be a model of virtue and one who instructs out of experience not from what he has read.
He must also be a pilot. One who is a skilled helmsman, guiding his ship, not only through the billows of a storm, but raising it up out of the abyss itself, as if raising a ship that has sunk or smashed against the rocks. Again, one who has the capacity to do this is a person who has persevered through the experience of fear and hopelessness, one who knows where the dangers lie, the signs of a storm, and where one will crash upon the reef. He must be a genuine teacher, one upon whose heart God has etched the truth. He should not be one who needs other books, but rather he should be one who speaks from the heart and speaks of his own distinctive and unique trials. He must understand then that he must teach from on high. For lowly instructions cannot possibly heal lowly beings. We are healed by grace and through divine wisdom. 
In the role of a shepherd, he must not be afraid to reprimand those sheep who fall behind because of slothfulness or gluttony. To be separated from the flock, to cut oneself off from communion with God and with others who seek to breathe the same air, is to place oneself in jeopardy. The shepherd must forever keep his gaze directed heavenward, especially when the sheep are inclined to keep their heads turned towards the earth and the things of this world. It is then that they become easy prey for the wolves and so like John the Baptist he must forever be calling them to repentance. His mind must be like that of a dog; senses heightened and alert to the approach of any danger warning those in his charge. 
As a true physician of souls, he must not only have the capacity to diagnose the malady, but the instruments necessary to heal the wounds of others. He must understand the seriousness of the ailment and the right kind of remedy in order that he does not make things worse or fail to apply what is needed to bring an individual back to the fullness of health. He cannot be squeamish or hesitant in offering the diagnosis or applying the remedy. For he knows that he must give answer to the Master for the care he has given.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:32 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 249, # 1
 
00:31:03 Jeffrey Fitzgerald: On that note, Father, about the disconnect with the Fatjers, Ive discovered that even the simplest mention of the Eastern Fathers—in my spiritual direction or other Catholic contexts—people in general look at me like I’m speaking gibberish.  In my own parish, it’s all a matter of “Vatican 2 says…”, followed by agreement or disagreement depending on their own spiritual world view. I know you and many commentators have noted that this would happen, but it’s still startling.
 
00:33:34 Kate : To tag onto to Jeffrey’s point, I was warned to stay away from the Fathers.  I was warned that hesychasm is “dangerous.”
 
00:34:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "To tag onto to Jeffr..." with 😮
 
00:35:42 Bob Cihak, AZ: Yes, words in books can be wonderful. BUT, words are symbols of experience, as said by philosopher Eric Voegelin. Many of the writings we've read reflect the latter, i.e., experience leads; words try to articulate the experience for others.
 
00:35:50 Myles Davidson: On a positive note, I listened to a Bishop Barron video he did on the Holy Hour and he was giving different examples of what one may do in a Holy Hour. As an example he outlined what he had done in his Holy Hour that morning and he had prayed the Jesus Prayer for half of it. He said he loved it and did it regularly. Great to such a high profile Roman Catholic bishop promoting the Jesus Prayer like this!
 
00:36:55 Art: Let us start up Desert Fathers Societies in churches everywhere to teach these very baseline concepts, practices, and readings.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: Encounter. In War & Peace, an old man advises to read the Bible, even in the unfamiliar slavonic language, and over time will come comprehension and understanding.  That's like the spiritual life.  And, it's kind of true for me when I read New Testament in Italian.  Slowly the meaning comes.
 
00:40:28 Anthony: Reacted to Let us start up Dese... with "👍"
 
00:45:06 Gregory Chura: Learning in a different language... Attending Mass in Spanish made me listen to what I was praying.  Yes!  Slow down.
 
00:45:38 Anna Lalonde: I'm so grateful you're training us in desert Father's. My children ask almost every night if you're on. 😂
 
00:57:30 Bob Cihak, AZ: Faith DOES heal!!
 
01:09:09 Anthony: Maybe our catechizing should include this: repent immediately, be confident God forgives, do the opposite of the bad, and when you see a priest, if the matter was grave, ask for Confession.
 
01:10:03 Anna Lalonde: Minimal weekly Repentance has worked awesome for us!
 
01:11:49 Kate : I have to say that I am just amazed.  At the risk of oversimplifying, what we are talking about is love.  The Love of Christ.  There is a saying that time heals all wounds…but really, it is the Love of Christ that heals.  Honestly, this has been one of the biggest revelations to me since discovering the Fathers…that the Love of Christ heals!   And the spiritual father is an instrument of this Love.
 
01:12:26 Anthony: Reacted to I have to say that I... with "❤️"
 
01:15:51 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 
01:15:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Thanksgiving to you all!
 
01:16:10 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Reacted to "Thank you! Happy Tha..." with 👍
 
01:16:11 Laura: Happy Thanksgiving 🥧
 
01:16:18 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:26 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXX, Part IV

As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent St. John unfolds for us the heights to which we are drawn – the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Love. Hope, often the most neglected of virtues, is the annulment of despair. It allows us to hold on to the promise of Christ to be with us always. Even when faith seems to fail us and all grows dark because of the cross that we carry, our hope in the Lord allows us to be consoled by his mercy and to be drawn forward. It protects us from despondency and doubt.
Love when unimpeded allows us to see as God sees; to see the signs of the times and how things will unfold even when all seems chaotic. This divine love yields miracles; the supernatural healing and perfecting the natural. Through it we come to see the things of the kingdom with clarity. This clarity creates a fire within the heart; an urgent longing and thirst for the Lord that only he can quench. It is our movement into eternity. It reveals to us that the kingdom is now, heaven is now, eternity is now! We come to see that this love is not distant but that the kingdom dwells within. 
St. John closes the step by calling out to Love Himself to satisfy his desire, to show him the path of the ascent that is most direct. For even though he had received this wisdom from others, St. John understands that it is only Love himself who can guide us. It is the experience of this love alone that moves us from words to reality.
Finally, St. John exhorts us along with all those who read his book to ascend eagerly and to be resolved in their hearts to strive for the Lord above all things. He is our life, our salvation, our love!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:01:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: My microphone isn’t working again but this is probably for the better, because I have a strong head cold with the virus also giving my voice into a gravelly inflection.
 
Doreen Stacy, our artist friend’s funeral was yesterday. Preparations conflicted with our Monday meeting; I know I’m already excused but wanted to ask for prayers. Doreen only had 3 children but one of her daughters had 11. Who would have guessed that an English Professor could splendidly support a family that size?
 
00:08:21 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0
 
00:12:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What is the title of the St. Isaac book?
 
00:12:44 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 179, # I
 
00:14:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. Wrong book. Actually p.246, # 30 P. 179, # I
 
00:15:15 David: Sr. Barbara it is ISBN 978-0-943405-16-2 Holy Transfiguration Monastery my copy is 2011
 
00:26:39 Rebecca Thérèse: In what specifically are we supposed to hope? And what does lack of hope look like?
 
00:27:16 Lilly (Toronto, CA): “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” ...It's hard to surrender our weakness or sufferings, but it's in those darkest times that a simple Psalm will be enough to help us persevere
 
00:30:58 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."
 
The Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian
 
00:32:31 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."
 
https://htmp.org/St-Isaac-Ascetical-Homilies/overview.html
 
00:58:14 Maureen Cunningham: Hound oh heaven
 
00:58:41 Joseph: “Love is the progress of eternity” echoes St. Gregory of Nyssa’s notion of epektasis, the eternal ‘stretching and straining’ of the soul toward God. Each step toward God is both a fulfillment and a new beginning. Our mystical ascent never truly comes to an end, the cup is never entirely full, our love reaches out to God for eternity.
 
00:59:54 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Who's the author of Flying over the abyss?
 
01:00:28 Dave Warner | AL: Flying over the Abyss: https://essexmonastery.com/bookshop/flying-over-the-abyss
 
01:01:26 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thank you
 
01:01:41 Dave Warner | AL: Replying to "Who's the author of ..."
 
Archmandrite Zacharias Zacharou
 
01:02:18 Dave Warner | AL: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍
 
01:03:20 David: I had an aunt who everyone loved. Children who were very bad she used to say "how peppy". She always told me - look till you see a glimmer of Christ and with patience you will see even the slightest light in some aspect. I remember this often and it seems like once you know what they have gone through or lacked in their experience there always is some of the divine in almost everyone. Just that thought helps me with trying to find something in the most difficult people I have encountered.
 
01:06:55 David: So your uncle thought you were peppy?
 
01:12:01 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0
 
01:12:32 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You and all are always a blessing.
 
01:13:21 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:22 Cindy Moran: These sessions have taught me so much! Thank you!
 
01:13:23 David: Thank you Father may God bless you and your mother!
 
01:13:24 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thank you, Father.
 
01:13:31 Joseph: Thank you, Father
 
01:13:36 Art: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXX, Part III

What do we live for? Or rather, better stated, Who do we live for? As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, St. John speaks to us about the nature of Divine Love that is our destiny and dignity in Christ. We pursue the spiritual life for no abstract reason - not for moral perfection - not to satisfy a sense of religious duty. Nor are we driven by fear or anxiety as has sadly so often been the case. 
It has always been Love that beckons us forward, that gradually heals the wounds of our sin or the traumas that we have borne. Anything that obstructs our vision of love and the mercy, God desires to overcome. God has created us for himself, made us in his own image and likeness precisely that we might share in the fullness of his life. The nature of love is curative not punitive. 
St. John begins by speaking of those who keep in their imagination the face of the beloved and embrace it tenderly. This love often is so strong that it strips them even of the need for sleep or for food. The one who yearns for God says: “My soul thirsts for God, the mighty, the living God. The grace of this reality transforms nature to the point that even their countenance changes and is filled with the joy and the peace of the kingdom.
Furthermore, the pure of heart, the one who loves without impediment, is the truth theologian and so grasp the very nature of the most holy trinity. Their heart transformed by love shows itself in their love of neighbor, their intolerance for slander or anything that might diminish the other.
St. John also tells us that the power of love is in hope because by it we await the reward of love. Even when we cannot see, when we find ourselves wrapped in the darkness of the cross that we carry, it is in hope that we find rest and the reassurance of God‘s love for us .
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:33 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 245, # 16
 
00:27:24 Jeff O.: Seems like Psalm 1, Jeremiah 17, the river of life flowing in and through us producing within us fruit no matter what
 
00:30:04 Anna Lalonde: Is that the fear of reverence and awe of God?
 
00:31:17 Cindy Moran: I remember in a worldly being a love sick teenager and could care less about eating
 
00:32:30 David: Are there different levels of fear? I remember when I was a child my sister and I used to say the worst punishment was seeing disappointment from our mother and father not any correction. I sometimes feel more like this than trying to reconcile a loving God who has done so much and fire and brimstrone.
 
00:34:48 Myles Davidson: I love St. Isaacs view of hell as the love of God that is painful to those who have rejected Him
 
00:43:17 David: I love the mass no matter what but I often find homilies downloaded from sites which feel detached, not from the heart. I find the priest who speak of personal experience or their struggles capture the parish more. It seems there are administrators and holy men but they are often not in balance.
 
00:47:57 Jeff O.: St. Maximos’s “Questions 17-19” are great examples of examining the inner meaning of Scripture’s ‘enigmas’ with the fear of God (as he says). A higher reading, deeper reading - a mystical engagement with the Spirit that brings out the beautiful truths. He works out Exodus 4 with Moses and the angel threatening death into a beautiful way of describing the spiritual journey
 
00:48:54 Rebecca Therese: I heard someone say once that hell is a mercy for
those who feel tortured by the vision of God.
 
00:50:19 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I heard someone say ..." with 🙏🏼
 
00:53:26 Francisco Ingham: We need less news and more nous
 
00:53:37 David: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍
 
00:53:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍
 
00:54:01 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 😂
 
01:02:20 Anna Lalonde: I call that domestic monastic as we do
 
01:12:15 Nick Bodmer: Wow, that's amazing, Fr. !
 
01:12:38 Serene Lai: How can we increase our hope?
 
01:14:49 Nypaver Clan: They instantly become little saints!
 
01:16:58 Myles Davidson: Fr’s Substack:
https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy
 
01:17:42 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing to Charbel please.
 
01:17:42 Art: Reacted to "Fr’s Substack:
https..." with 👍
 
01:18:27 Rebecca Therese: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:33 David: Thank you father! May God bless you!🙏
 
01:18:34 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:18:34 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all!
 
01:18:44 Nick Bodmer: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏"
 
01:18:52 Nick Bodmer: Thank you!
 
01:19:01 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏"
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXX, Part II

What does it mean to be drawn into the mystery of Divine Love? Even as beautifully as John writes, it is difficult to wrap our minds around the experience of the living God; the experience of a love that is free of every impediment and passion, a love that makes us sons and daughters of God and so shapes are identity in such a way that it is unshakable. 
What is it that can overcome such a love? Our identity is often shaped by anxieties and fears, the unexpected and unknown, and our insecurities. Yet, as we are immersed in the love of God, all fear dissipates and is overtaken by an urgent longing for God and the thirst for his love. 
We often resist opening ourselves up and becoming vulnerable to this love. One famous author wrote, “humankind can only bear so much reality.“ Yet the love of God, the more that it is experienced, allows us to run toward that reality rather than avoid it . It  reveals to us that even our weaknesses, the things that we perhaps hate about ourselves or the wounds that we bear, draw us toward him. Love reveals to us that we experience nothing in isolation. Christ is always present to us and within us. This being so allows us to offer Him all that we are without shame.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:36 Una: Byzantine Carmelite nuns https://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/index.html
 
00:06:55 Una: In Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania
 
00:08:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: The author was one of the lecturers at Acton University when I attended over 10 years ago.
"The Glory that is Pittsburgh" at 
https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/the-glory-that-is-pittsburgh-5753572
 
00:12:33 Una: A line from that article that has me ROFL
 
00:12:35 Una: Pittsburgh is a town that makes me want to rhapsodize like a follower of Ayn Rand.
 
00:14:05 carol_000: Does this Zoom start a bit before 5:30 E Time ?
 
00:14:28 Una: Just chat before 5:30
 
00:15:10 carol_000: Una ..Thanks
 
00:16:00 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Is it the same material as Father posts on FB?
 
00:16:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9
 
00:19:08 Daniel Allen: What page are we on again? Sorry I missed it.
 
00:19:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9
 
00:19:21 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:46:02 Anthony: Part of the issue is how we receive the Gospel and Apocalypse....these are written with fearful language.
 
00:48:36 susan: some of the teaching seems so hard to do or embrace and seems like climbing Mt Everest lol so I have decided to become a micro ascetic  offer the smallest, micro offerings tiny tiny acts
 
00:50:21 Anthony: Should peter have been confident of forgiveness , even before the Lord forgave him?
 
00:51:12 David: Isn't there a process of letting go of things that leads us from obedience and caring to devotion. It seems love itself has stages and perhaps devotion is a joy in itself. But without letting go we lack faith and trust in the beloved.
 
01:04:11 David: My grandfather one time had me write down everything I was worried about for weeks. He kept it and showed it to me a year later and I realized how much time I wasted on that. While it took me years to understand it did help me move from belief to faith.
 
01:04:29 Daniel Allen: How do you give God “those things” in a concrete way? For instance how do you give God your anxiety in a concrete way, because sometimes offering it in prayer seems somewhat abstract.
 
01:05:19 Wayne: Reacted to "My grandfather one t..." with 👍
 
01:08:28 David: A beautiful tradition I saw in Potes, Spain was at collection people would give both money but what concerned them or what sins they were struggling with written on small pieces of paper to bring to the altar. I wonder which this is just a small town and (small t tradition) rather than more common. Just struck me as beautiful and I still think of that when I put something in the collection basket.
 
01:09:07 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Some find writing helpful - a note or letter to the Lord in one's journal. Or an expression in art...
 
01:09:14 Anna Lalonde: More frequent mystery of Repentance and gratitude are so important for this! Seen it with grief in my children and I.
 
01:14:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:14:48 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:14:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:50 David: Thank you father. May God bless you!
 
01:15:33 Jeff O.: Thank you so much!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXIII, Part II and XXIV, Part I

Tonight we read the final sections on the fathers’ reflection on the practice of fasting. Once again the focus is on decorum; how does one eat in the presence of others while not giving himself over to pride. It is ever so easy to think oneself the great ascetic and hold oneself above others within the community. Ego can even distort well-practiced discipline into something that sets oneself apart from others rather than leads one to show greater desire for God, virtue and mercy towards others. 
All of our practices, the fathers teach us, must be guided by spirit of gratitude. We give thanks for the food that we receive and that nourishes us and we avoid criticizing others for how much they eat. Self discipline is not a weapon to be wielded by the ego for its own pleasure. Our tendency is to devour our brothers’ flesh by our criticism, and as the psalmist tells us to “eat up God’s people as if eating our bread.”
A humble attitude must be fostered, and we must not be ill-mannered. For example, a senior monk within a monastery must not demand honor or reverence or put on airs before his juniors. He must not draw attention to Himself in any way that would diminish charity among the brothers. What is the value of toiling all day only to undermine oneself to satisfy petty pride?
Again, the fathers want us to understand that fasting and all of our disciplines are about love. We must not diminish the practice by becoming legalistic or moralistic in our view. Therefore, we are taught not to takes oaths about avoiding certain foods. In doing so we set aside the freedom that is ours. No food is reprehensible. We are merely to eat with restraint and gratitude. But if we take an oath and then break it by eating the particular food we fall into perjury. As Christ tells us, no food is unclean; rather it is what comes out of the heart that makes a person unclean or sinful.
A rather lengthy discussion ensued in regards to avoiding a kind of ghetto mentality in our Christian practice; setting ourselves apart from others rather than serving them in the love of Christ. It is a narrow line that we walk and demands that we understand that all is grace. Christ has taken on our poverty and emptied himself in order that we might know the fullness of life and love. Our exercise of the faith, that is, our asceticism, must be relational; it must be directed toward Christ and enable us to love as He loves. Asceticism is not an end in itself, nor do we live out our Christianity in isolation. We turn to Christ, we die to sin and self, in order to be raised to life in him. To avoid the kind of isolationism that we would see in the scribes and Pharisees, we must become Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:37 Cindy Moran: The joys of home ownership 😜
 
00:11:29 Una: I'm a happy renter
 
00:12:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 168, #F
 
00:35:02 Erick Chastain: Once you pop you can't stop- pringles
 
00:35:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Once you pop you can..." with 😮
 
00:36:46 Adam Paige: Two recommendations on fasting and feasting.. Benedictine monk Adalbert de Vogue's book To Love Fasting is back in print in English (https://a.co/d/3hSwoIX), and I recently watched the film Babette's Feast for the first time - very moving !
 
00:38:09 Myles Davidson: A free PDF of To Love Fasting is available here:
https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting
 
00:40:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "A free PDF of To Lov..." with ❤️‍🔥
 
00:46:33 Francisco Ingham: There’s a great Chesterton quote related to this point
 
00:46:43 Francisco Ingham: “Let us put a complex entrée into a simple old gentleman; let us not put a simple entrée into a complex old gentleman. So long as human society will leave my spiritual inside alone, I will allow it, with a comparative submission, to work its wild will with my physical interior. I will submit to cigars. I will meekly embrace a bottle of Burgundy. I will humble myself to a hansom cab. If only by this means I may preserve to myself the virginity of the spirit, which enjoys with astonishment and fear.”
 
00:54:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“Let us put a comple..." with 🍷
 
00:55:51 Ambrose Little: Can you comment on the seeming contradiction between Christ’s example of eating and drinking with sinners (and generally chastising Pharisees for being puritanical), and the counsel to avoid such and only surround oneself with those we deem holy and who think like we do.
 
01:05:17 Ambrose Little: It seems like there is real danger (that has actually been realized) in thinking and acting as if the church is only for the already perfect. But as Pope Francis has emphasized, the church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners. I just think the advice to avoid sinners and those who are not seeking God as we imagine we are can easily be internalized as exclusivity, isolationism,  and judgmentalism. It requires humility as a primary principle, to realize we are sinners, too.
 
01:14:29 Ambrose Little: Amen. Thank you!
 
01:14:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 santiagobua: Thank you !
 
01:15:36 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:47 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father
 
01:15:52 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 
01:15:59 Erick Chastain: Thank you father!
 
01:16:05 Una: Thank you
 
01:16:08 santiagobua: Where can we find the Substack?
 
01:16:10 SYu’s iPhone: Thank you, Father.
 
01:16:43 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where can we find th..."
 
https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy
 
01:16:46 Myles Davidson: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy
 
01:16:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍
 
01:17:10 santiagobua: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍
 
01:17:17 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "https://substack.com…" with 👍
 
01:17:18 Erick Chastain: Just woke up earlier
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIX, and XXX, Part I

We are brought to the denouement of the Ladder in these final steps on Dispassion and the “Trinity of Virtues” - Faith, Hope and Love. The words of St. John ring forth as if from the mouth of a poet. It is only one who has experience of and has seen the beauty of Divine love who can then speak of the urgent longing that begins to take over the soul when it no longer is held back by the weight of sin or one’s ego.
The dispassionate man, St. John tells us, no longer lives himself, but Christ lives in him. He has eyes only for the beloved and living in constant union with him.  All becomes Grace; Christ’s virtue becomes our virtue, Christ’s strength becomes our strength, Christ’s love becomes our love. 
Understanding this we must not allow anything to hold us back. Above all we should desire to enter into the bridal chamber; for this is exactly what Christ has made possible for us. Our relationship with God is often described with nuptial imagery; we are destined to become one with the most holy Trinity. What excuse could we possibly put forward for not at least seeking to break through the wall of our sin by embracing the forgiveness that is so freely offered?
St. John’s discussion of dispassion leads us to the final step of the Ladder. The theological virtues, named so because they have God as their end, become St. John’s subject matter. These three are preeminent because they endure unto eternity. The greatest of them, love, allows no respite for the soul but drives her on with a kind of blessed madness. Overcome with an urgent longing for the Beloved it takes on a greater resemblance to God in so far as this is possible. The soul becomes inebriated - so often does it seek to satisfy its thirst for divine love. Having satisfied this desire the heart expands, taking on  distinctive properties where it becomes a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience and a sea of humility. What takes place then is extraordinary: love banishes every thought of evil or judgment. Only mercy, forgiveness and compassion remain.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:44 Myles Davidson: According to Wikipedia Scorcese is doing one on Moses the Black
 
00:14:08 Myles Davidson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese_Presents:_The_Saints
 
00:18:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 243, #13
 
00:37:15 Anthony: Renzo Allegri write a book: "Padre Pio Man of Hope." Good book.
 
00:39:32 Anthony: And this is why legalism and scrupulousity is such a problem. They strangle wonder and longing.
 
00:41:29 Anthony: Franciscans are  like the east
 
00:56:20 Anthony: Eastern Star
 
00:56:26 Leilani Nemeroff: Eastern Star
 
00:57:29 David: A book that really lead me to the fathers and from mere belief to faith was "What Difference Does Jesus Make"- Frank Sheed. Really hard to find not sure why this is not more popular.
 
00:59:25 carol_000: What time zone did this meeting start at 7:30
 
00:59:34 Nypaver Clan: EST
 
00:59:34 David: EST
 
00:59:48 carol_000: Thanks
 
01:00:09 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thanks" with 🥰
 
01:01:21 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: The kingdom must be preached/shared -  we are way too silent about sharing our faith...
 
01:02:42 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Guardini has a great book on prayer..
 
01:02:49 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Guardini has a great..." with 👍
 
01:04:42 carol_000: Calgary, Alberta Canada.  Mountain Standard Time. My first time here.
 
01:05:07 Nypaver Clan: Meditations Before Mass - Guardini
 
01:05:07 Myles Davidson: Welcome 🙂
 
01:06:19 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Thanks.
 
01:07:33 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Hooray!  Glad you found us! 🙏🏼
 
01:07:36 Jeff O.: The madness of pride as opposed to the madness of love is an interesting juxtaposition. Two very distinct and different “pictures” of madness.
 
01:09:10 Cindy Moran: Reacted to The madness of pride... with "👍"
 
01:09:48 Cindy Moran: Me, too!!
 
01:09:53 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Welcome, Canada!🇨🇦
 
01:10:06 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
I've been following Fr. Charbel for a while, but now I'm wondering which branch of Orthodoxy is this? Reference to author & "Mass" ?
 
01:10:59 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Byzantine
01:11:09 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Thanks
 
01:12:54 Anna Lalonde: Thank you! My children and I are loving this.
 
01:13:03 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Ukrainian Greek
 
01:14:09 Jeff O.: That would be lovely!
 
01:14:26 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"
 
Thanks, I was raised Ukr. Grk Orthodox but now go to OCA church in All English.
 
01:14:45 Kevin & Lilly: Yes!!
 
01:14:52 Rachel: and icon paintng
 
01:15:00 Jacqulyn: Let's do it!
 
01:15:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father
 
01:15:35 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:35 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing. Please especially St Charbel help me!
 
01:15:38 Rachel: thank you!
 
01:15:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊
 
01:15:42 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all!
 
01:15:44 David: Thank you father!
 
01:15:46 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father!
 
01:15:54 Edmund Dyjak: Thank You GOD Bless You
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIX, Part I

St. John understands that we are out of our depths whenever we try to capture with words what comes through experience. This is true in particular of the heights of prayer, contemplation, and with dispassion. John’s language is poetic and thus a reflection of his straining to present us with the end of the spiritual life and what the heart longs for the most.
In concluding his teachings on prayer, he warns us of certain pitfalls to avoid in order that our focus might remain upon Christ. Above all he does not want us to become discouraged by the attack of the evil one. Such a thing is to be expected. Prayer is so beautiful and transformative that the demons are going to do everything they can to disrupt it. Yet, John would have us understand that the demons are scourged by prayer and when we show fortitude they flee. Finally, he would have be confident in the practice of prayer. There is nothing that one can write in a book that is necessary when we have God himself as the Teacher of prayer. It is the Holy Spirit that searches the depths of God the guides us forward.
Dispassion is even more difficult to capture with mere words for it describes one who has made his flesh incorruptible and has subdued all the senses; keeping his soul before the face of the Lord and always straining towards him. One is not only detached from the things of this world but has a gathered an exhaustible store of virtue as a source of strength. They are driven no longer by fear, but now only love; love that cannot be understood by mere reason. The soul is drawn forward by an urgent longing that belongs only to those who are created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, St. John sees dispassion as purity of heart; where a person has reached a level of existence where sin has no hold upon them and there is no longer even any awareness of the presence of demons. Such an individual is wholly united with God and always will be.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:24 Gregory Chura: Which step?
 
00:06:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58
 
00:07:29 Myles Davidson: Can I ask what edition of The Ladder we are reading from?
 
00:08:08 Adam Paige: Paulist Press edition page 281 🙂
 
00:09:01 Adam Paige: The introduction is excellent too, although it doesn’t contain the Letter to the Shepherd at the end
 
00:11:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58
 
00:15:46 Kevin & Lilly: Aren't we supposed to expose our wound (sin) in its entirety for Jesus to heal it (in the confessional)? Similar to removing the band-aid, even if it hurts us?
 
00:21:42 Cindy Moran: Some things you can not "unsee"
 
00:26:26 susan: I get attacked walking up to communion and then I feel
 
00:26:48 susan: like I have done something wrong
 
00:29:02 Anthony: I also think having undergone at least once a spiritual attack, a person anticipates it and therefore brings it to mind?
 
00:31:05 Christian Corulli: Love of God destroys all fear
 
00:56:07 Christian Corulli: This sounds like the 7th Mansion of St. Teresa, can we make that comparison? Do the Carmelites trace the same spiritual path as St. John Climacus?
 
01:08:10 David: Is there an element of experience or getting older in this step. My grandfather always used to say youth is a process of acquiring and drive and growing old is the challenge of learning to let go. Through suffering, experience I can see more an more elements of dispassion or not feeling as connected to what many seek in the world and am left with only what endures which is family and faith.
 
01:22:15 David: Saving us from ourselves
 
01:22:38 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing to all
 
01:23:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, everyone,
 
01:23:06 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank You Blessing t..." with ❤️
 
01:23:07 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father !!!
 
01:23:10 Anthony Kinyon (Αντώνιος Κινγιόν): Thank you Fr. Charbel.
 
01:23:10 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:23:10 David: Thank you father and God bless you and your mom
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:23:16 Cameron Jackson: Overwhelmed again. Thank you Fr.
 
01:24:13 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part VII

As St. John draws us more deeply into his understanding of prayer and the experience of intimacy with God, he begins to emphasize the importance of maintaining purity of heart and humility. Either through negligence or through demonic provocation, we can find ourselves being driven not by the Holy Spirit toward God but rather driven by the desires of the flesh. The vulnerability of prayer, opening our minds and our hearts to God, also carries with it the need to have established watchfulness of heart. If we have not we can indiscriminately open ourselves up to certain dangers. For example, we may allow our mind to wander during prayer in such a way that we turn away from God. It can even happen that in this turning away we are move towards the enemies of God. Like Judas we can share most intimately with the Lord at the table of the holy Eucharist and then immediately be driven out by an unholy spirit into the darkness. It is those who are closest to Christ who often betray him the most. 
We all take certain things for granted. This is true in our relationship with God. We can treat that relationship cheaply; enter into it with a kind of familiarity to the point that we lose sight of the preciousness of what God has made possible for us. Our attachment to the things of this world or to individuals can fill our minds and our hearts even during the time of prayer. Therefore, John wants us to have no illusions about what it is that we ask for and seek in prayer. Our greatest desire should be what leads us to God and what endures unto eternity. As Saint James tell us: “we ask, but we do not receive because we ask wrongly.” We seek only the satisfy our natural wants and desires.  As it has been said, “The fool’s portion is small in his eyes.” Often we do not see the beauty of what God offers us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:58 Bob Cihak, AZ: P.239, #50
 
00:13:44 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍
 
00:14:28 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍
 
00:51:38 Rachel: or to satisfy ego since it is difficult to see oneself as nothing and in such need.
 
00:59:38 David: Someone told me once - measure your thoughts and you measure what you treasure. Treasure only what is everlasting.
 
01:02:14 Laura: Reacted to "Someone told me once..." with 👍🏼
 
01:04:59 Rebecca Thérèse: It seems to me that it's easier to catch someone in infidelity these days because of socia media and smart devices etc than it was previously.
 
01:11:31 Anthony: I've wondered if we get monastic life and vocations imbalanced? I read that among Syrians, there was one "monastic" community composed of subsets of vowed religious, families and singles.  This makes for universality and diversity and maybe a healthier psychology for persons?
 
01:13:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thomas Szasz the anti-psychiatry psychiatrist wrote a paper about how psychiatrists persuaded the Church that sex abusers were ill and could be treated and how this led to priests being "treated" and moved instead of being fired.
 
01:14:12 Una: Jon Hassler wrote North of Hope dealing with this situation of the priest who dealt with this issue
 
01:14:29 Una: Excellent novel
 
01:18:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great to be back in class!!
 
01:18:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:18:47 David: Thank you father. Glad your feeling better!
 
01:18:51 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:19:02 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:19:03 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank you father. Gl..." with ❤️
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part VI

Above all St. John’s writing on prayer works to break through the myopic vision that we have of life, of prayer, and of God.  Like so many of the fathers, he will hammer away at anything which prevents us from experiencing the fullness of God’s love and mercy. Thus, he both rebukes and encourages. 
We began this evening with a warning about admitting fantasies into our mind and heart during prayer. The demonic provocation at such times will be to use religious ideas, visions, etc., to distract us from the beloved and the encounter with him in silence. However, John tells us, if we hold fast to this prayer we are given an invincible assurance; there is a loss of all doubt and the certainty of God’s love is all that remains. The encounter with God Himself is proof of the unprovable!
We must give great care to put on the mind of Christ. We must be merciful as our Heavenly Father is merciful. To allow ourselves even to think of justice is going to immediately pull us down. For there is no justice! What has been revealed to us is unconditional love, mercy, and compassion. To turn a harsh eye toward another is to turn our eyes away from God.
Furthermore, we must allow God in his providence to set both the time and measure of prayer. We cannot treat it as something that anything else in our life is equal to in importance. This is especially true in those blessed moments where God fills the heart with compunction and the eyes with tears that cleanse the soul. We must not break away or abandoned prayer until we see that by divine Providence both the fervor and tears have diminished. “For perhaps you will not have such a moment for the remission of your sins again in all your life.“ We must always choose the one thing necessary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:36 Una: The Catholic psychologist Dr. Raymond Lloyd Richmond
 
00:15:53 Una: ChastitySF.com
 
00:31:09 Anthony: Why are Roman Catholics so fixated on justice? I've thought it's due to inheriting the legal notions of Roman imperial law and German folk law.  But we're so focused on law, that being a Roman Catholic is sometimes not appealing.  Thank God for persons like St Francis of Assisi.
 
00:33:15 Victor Haburchak: Americans are impacted by English Common Law. We’re more rigid than Italians it’s been said.
 
00:34:42 Anthony: I went to Italy. Naples and South. It's so different
 
00:34:56 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I went to Italy. Nap…" with 👍
 
00:38:00 Victor Haburchak: On the monastic rules for fasting my grandfather, a Ruthenian immigrant from Eastern Europe, said they were practically starving & yet there were constant calls to fast throughout the year while he was slaving in coal mins v
 
00:38:47 Victor Haburchak: Coal mines….
 
00:41:16 Victor Haburchak: He was a Greek-Catholic so experienced strictness of G-C priests.
 
01:05:38 Anthony: So that prayer also is as quick as breath
 
01:16:48 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:16:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:51 Myles Davidson: That was a great hour. Thankyou Fr ! God bless you!
 
01:16:53 David: Thanks Father!
 
01:16:55 Cindy Moran: Thank You Father!!!
 
01:16:57 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part V

What is prayer and, more importantly, what do we become by engaging in prayer? So often we take a reductive view of the realities in our life, including the reality of our relationship with God. We reduce our converse with God to a discipline or an afterthought or worse and obligation. And yet as we read the fathers, we begin to see with greater clarity that prayer involves a kind of mutual vulnerability. We stand before the Other, God, withholding nothing of ourselves from him. In this, we imitate Him who has revealed himself to us in the most vulnerable fashion. He has drawn back the veil and revealed his heart to us and the depth of his love and compassion. 
Such a vision of prayer precludes are treating it in a common fashion; approaching it like we would any other interaction. However, what we are drawn into from the moment of our baptism is the very life of God, a participation in the life of the most holy Trinity. Prayer, then, becomes an expression of identity, of who we are as human beings and what we’ve become in Christ. Seen in such a manner, an unquenchable thirst should arise within the human heart to remain in prayer and prolong it. One desires to linger long with the Beloved. It is to choose the better part. So much of what we learn, and our taught leads only to the fragmentation of the self. The frenetic pace of life and the desperate pursuit to satisfy expectations that we have for ourselves or that others place upon us distorts who we really are. We are sons and daughters of God, heir to the kingdom of heaven, and the Spirit that dwells within the heart alone gives us the capacity to express the love God Himself has for us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 237, #34
 
00:38:13 Callie Eisenbrandt: Father how do we learn something everyday in prayer in times of spiritual dryness? Sometimes it feels like its difficult to see what you are to learn until you look back on prayers from the past but how do you do that on a daily basis?
 
00:39:51 Wayne: late what page are we on?
 
00:41:07 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 238, #38 or so.
 
00:41:35 Wayne: thnx
 
00:42:41 Christian Corulli: I think it would ruin the prayer if we did understand the points of dryness
 
00:53:39 Victor: Parental bragging rights enhanced by need for non-ending FB posts. Good points. Let kids play. “Leisure, the basis of culture”.
 
00:53:44 Alan Henderson: Father, on this point about children, what are your thoughts about finding a balance between - letting children have the play time as you mention, and finding them hobbies/activities that they can enjoy (and spend time with friends).  I agree with you that this is a major concern in how we are shaping our kids.
 
00:55:50 Leilani Nemeroff: If I had it to do over, as a parent, I wouldn’t have felt obligated to run to so many activities.
 
00:56:06 Wayne: Reacted to "If I had it to do ov..." with 👍
 
00:58:07 Leilani Nemeroff: There needs to be time for more free play.
 
00:58:56 Victor: Playing cops & robbers as a kid helped me to warn community when gunman was outside our liturgy back in 70s. Also to help generate strategy when a priest & I were chased by robbers in Africa once.
 
00:59:55 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Playing cops & robbe..." with 😮
 
01:00:10 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Playing cops & robbe…" with 😮
 
01:02:03 Ashley Kaschl: Father, I don’t want to totally change the topic away from
good leisure and play, which is so good, but I was thinking about what you said in regards to busying ourselves or adding to our lives when we don’t need to add, and it brought to mind two quotes:

the first is a monk’s reflection on his need to leave his cell for begging. He said, “Every time I leave my cell, I return less myself.” 

And the second is from St. Francis of Assisi, when he would daily pray, “who are You, Lord, and who am I?” 


I think work properly related to our state in life is meant to be shaped around our prayer time, not our prayer time shaped around our extracurricular activities. I know I fail in this all the time but I find that I have to often reorient myself when I approach prayer because I have to shed burdens I did not know I picked up to carry before I can be with the Lord in a deeper intimacy.
 
01:03:42 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Father, I don’t want..." with 🥰
 
01:05:47 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I have come to realize that sane and holy life requires quiet time for prayer but also quiet time for psychological wholeness.  Time to sort things out...
 
01:13:07 susan: learned so much!!
 
01:13:13 Victor: Thanks, Father & everyone.
 
01:13:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:29 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part IV

The very words of St. John Climacus seem to carry us up to heights hitherto unknown and unexpected. The experience of this ascent takes place as we feel our hearts begin to burn for love of God and the desire for him in prayer. 
St. John quickly moves us away from looking at prayer as a mere discipline and rather our being drawn into the depths of Mystery, the very Mystery of the Triune God.  The act of praying is a blessing in and of itself. To enter into this converse with God is also to experience the action of the Spirit within our hearts, the groans of Love that are beyond words.  
In all of this, St. John reshapes are understanding of the nature of prayer. It is not a discipline but an expression of our true nature in Christ. We are to become prayer, consumed by love for the Lord; anxious to show that love and treat it cheaply. 
Faith, St. John tells us, gives wings to prayer. Through it we see with clarity our hearts’ desire. An urgent longing takes hold of the heart that seeks quick satisfaction; that is, seeks to take hold of the Beloved without delay.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:23 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 237, #26
 
00:12:17 iPhone: Thank you, Bob
 
00:12:37 Myles Davidson: Hi Father. Which edition of Isaac the Syrian’s AH will you be using?
 
00:13:38 iPhone: Beautiful book
 
00:13:51 Bob Cihak, AZ: Previous posts don't show for newcomers, so I repeat: P. 237, #26
 
00:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: Yes! “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 .
 
00:14:16 Cindy Moran: I just got mine in the mail---loving the glossary.
 
00:14:43 Cindy Moran: Excellent...yes!
 
00:26:15 Anthony: I think the focus on law and duty that we see in some Catholic subcultures damages our understanding of prayer in this mystical way. At least, I think it was not healthy for me, with efforts like "storm heaven with this novena."
 
00:27:53 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes! “The Ascetical ..." with ❤️
 
00:30:43 Anthony: Another thing about legalism is that it chokes faith.
 
00:34:13 Anthony: Like how God said His name was blasphemy among the nation's by bad behavior of the Chosen people.
 
00:35:35 Kate : I have had to undo a lot of this strict legalistic teaching over the years.  Sometimes I fall back into it, and I think it is actually easier for my mind to grasp this legalism rather than open myself and surrender myself to the Love of God.  His Love is almost incomprehensible sometimes, but wonderfully so!
 
00:35:42 iPhone: Glad you mentioned corporal punishment. When I was five or six, I realized how unjust this violence was and I saw that the nun hit us hard enough to make us cry. In my desire for Justice, I resolved not to cry and I didn’t. After that I was marked as a problem child and never got a break. So, yeah, learning to trust is big
 
00:36:49 iPhone: The nuns meant our best, I’m sure. But something was really off with Irish Catholicism at that time (early 60s)
 
00:37:13 Anthony: Replying to "The nuns meant our b..." 
 
 It's Jansenism
 
00:38:19 iPhone: I think Jansenism is applicable but not the whole story
 
00:39:21 iPhone: Oh this is Una. Forget to put in my name
 
00:55:33 Cindy Moran: It's a sort of Divine healing radiation
 
01:04:21 Erick Chastain: Sorry about that got in car mode
 
01:04:27 iPhone: Ignatius and remote preparation
 
01:06:53 Jeff O.: So it all starts with obedience….is this the general
movement…recognizing that it’s not quite so linear? obedience —> humility —> discernment —> dispassion —> true prayer
 
01:12:22 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Sorry about that got..." with 👍
 
01:13:34 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing
 
01:13:50 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! Will be in prayer for you!
 
01:13:58 Jacqulyn: God bless!
 
01:14:03 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat!
 
01:14:05 Nypaver Clan: Is there a particular website we should check to get the next book?
 
01:14:06 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:14:10 Art iPhone: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:22 Joseph: Thank you, Father.
 
01:14:40 Nypaver Clan: Is the next book cheaper than $70 anywhere?
 
01:14:59 Maureen Cunningham: On line
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part III

Joy! Suddenly, as we read through the Ladder of Dive Ascent every cross, every struggle in the spiritual life, while still present, begins to fade into the background. The costs involved in this struggle pales in comparison to the blessings and the fruits that God bestows upon us, especially prayer .
St. John places before us the essentials of prayer - as well as what can undermine it. We continue to struggle to confine our thoughts and then to completely still the mind and the heart. When this takes place, prayer becomes perfection and rapture in the Lord. 
This joy, however, especially among the anchorites is marked by humility. One does not expose the deepest elements of the most intimate relationship indiscriminately with others. In any case, it would be impossible to do so. As we are drawn along in faith, as we begin to encounter and experience God as he is in himself, words fail us.
What we must do is hold on to what is precious. Imperfections and anxieties can pull us away from God and our trust in his love. Furthermore the evil one is ever set on disrupting that relationship. Plotting and conniving as he is, he will stir an emotion within our heart; or influence another to engage us in such a way so as to agitate or distract. But we must keep our eyes upon the Beloved. 
St. John asks, “For what have I in heaven? Nothing. And what have I desired on earth beside Thee? Nothing, but to cling continually to Thee in prayer without distraction.”  Hearing these words, one can never look upon prayer simply as an activity or discipline. It is life. It is love. We are to become prayer.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:06:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 235, # 19
 
00:11:46 Myles Davidson: Greetings from New Zealand! (my apologies for turning up at the end of the last session… got the time zone conversion wrong). Anyway, delighted to be here. These discussions have been an immeasurable blessing to this baby Catholic. Thanking you profusely Father, and God bless you and your ministry!!
 
00:20:15 Myles Davidson: Do you have any tips for developing watchfulness of thoughts. Is this just a constant practice of mindfulness of thought?
 
00:29:37 Kate : What about the publication of saints’ diaries or journals?  What would the Fathers say about this?
 
00:30:01 Anthony: Replying to "What about the publi..." 
 
 I love this question
 
00:30:36 iPhone: Can you explain vigils? Is it vespers and compline?
 
00:31:17 Rod Castillo: My Life in Christ by John of Kronstadt ????
 
00:32:42 Anthony: So the idea popular in "evangelicalism" (and now with Catholics and Orthodox) of a tell-all conversion story is not appropriate.
 
00:33:02 Jeff O.: Reacted to "So the idea popular ..." with 🎯
 
00:34:59 iPhone: This is a fascinating topic, this saying too much   Thank you
 
00:35:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Is there any evidence of changes in attitudes towards publishing personal spiritual journals since the advent of the printing press?
 
00:37:00 iPhone: Why is this tell-all trend happening? Because so many people have not read the Fathers?
 
00:37:23 iPhone: Blogs! Immodesty personified!
 
00:37:30 Myles Davidson: People aren’y going to confession perhaps?
 
00:56:33 Anthony: Wow.  So excessive chasing after goods and the obsession with trans- stuff us a war on prayer.
 
01:03:27 Rebecca Thérèse: There was a real antipathy towards ancestral religions by many of the founders of modern psychology and psychiatry including Freud. There are also nefarious financial and political interests in these areas
 
01:06:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: Too true. Too often, it's the easy way out, just prescribing drugs.
 
01:07:48 Nypaver Clan: An instructor I had at Duquesne U.  who was a therapist, often said that the majority of her clients would have best been served in the confessional.
 
01:13:01 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father. A great blessing.
 
01:13:05 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you, Father! This is a Blessing!
 
01:13:42 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:43 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:45 David: Thank you father!
 
01:13:47 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:51 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part II

There are some things that cannot be learned from books – prayer most of all! However, St. John, as so many of the Saints speaks to us from long experience as one who truly has seen Christ, knows Christ and has conversed with him deeply. Whatever might be lacking in his thought it still stokes the fire of desire within any heart that longs for God. 
The desert fathers understood that God looks upon us as his sons and daughters his children, and the simplest word or groan from the heart is sufficient to express our need and love. Above all, we are to have gratitude and a spirit of compunction. With these then we approach the Lord with the intentions of our hearts. 
We should not fear our own weakness or the multiplicity of our thoughts that seem to overwhelm us. St. John reminds us that He who “sets the bounds to the sea of the mind will visit us, and during our prayer will say to the waves thus far shall you come and no further.” 
Prayer should be the simplest of things, but also what we hold to be most precious. We should come to see it as necessary as breathing but even more essential. The fathers tell us that we are to become prayer - our life is to be a sacrifice of praise. We are to be the very reflection of Christ. The kingdom is now, heaven is now and dwells within us. May our foolish hearts take hold of the gift that the Beloved offers us so freely.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 234, # 1.5
 
00:05:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: We were half way thru #1.
 
00:05:53 Gregory Chura: Which step?
 
00:06:03 Gregory Chura: Thank you!
 
00:39:40 Anthony: So how to ignore the rational and irrational mind when praying? Just pray and eventually it happens?  Because my mind gets in the way.  
 
00:40:42 susan: Jesus [rayer
 
00:45:37 David: Sometimes something tactile like a chotki, rosary or stone ( have one that fits my hand from a retreat center) can help one become grounded. Others a icon or image can help set the mind and still others a candle or breathing technique can quickly return us to a calm state.
 
00:51:37 Wayne: Doing some active physical activity can settle the mind down before prayer.
 
01:03:05 Jeff O.: proverbs 24
 
01:03:22 Jeff O.: verse 16
 
01:03:24 Nypaver Clan: Verse 16
 
01:14:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:59 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:05 David: Thanks Father!
 
01:15:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:11 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII, Part IX, and XXVIII, Part I

As St. John Climacus comes to the end of the step on stillness and segues into the step on prayer, it is as if he is beckoning us with every word to enter into silence and to give ourselves over to prayer; not as a discipline but rather as a response to the gift of God’s love. We are so often filled with a hunger that is inexplicable to us. We seek to nourish ourselves upon the things of this world indiscriminately - only to find them sadly insufficient. We pathetically move on to something else that captures our attention. The world constantly tells us that it has “some thing” that will fill that void within our hearts. 
Therefore, St. John begins to define for us the mother of virtues – prayer. Not once does John describe prayer as a discipline but rather lays out before us all that it promises. The world sees it perhaps as a waste of time or an escape from reality. However, John makes it clear that the union prayer establishes with God upholds the very fabric of the world and opens the door to reconciliation with God. It becomes the cure and the healing balm for the deepest sorrows of human existence. 
Those realities that we experience during our life that are most painful are healed by being drawn into the eternal life and love of God - a God who has taken every bit of this suffering upon himself and permeates it. Prayer is our greatest treasure! May God give us the grace in the coming weeks to see and understand this.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:43 Bob Cihak, AZ: P.232, #77
 
00:17:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: As best I know, the next book, we’ll be doing is “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 .
 
00:17:13 Jeff O.: Reacted to "As best I know, the ..." with 👍
 
00:22:47 Jeff O.: I find that the 3 o’clock hour is the hour I most regularly awake to spiritual battle…fear, attacks in dreams, etc. There have been many nights I awake during that hour feeling an overwhelming need to pray and sings hymns… I have increasingly seen the value of praying at some time during that hour.
 
00:38:44 Anthony: This curiousity is a misdirected "eros"
 
00:39:42 Ambrose Little, OP: You triggered mine, too.
 
00:39:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Twice
 
00:39:53 Andrew Adams: Mine too!
 
00:40:57 Kathy Locher: How can you break its hold? Internet etc
 
00:42:37 Anthony: Makes us nervous and anxious too
 
00:59:42 Lori Hatala: there yourlies also
 
00:59:47 Rebecca Thérèse: Where your treasure is there will be your heart also
 
01:20:02 Anthony: If chronological time is a creature, prayer brings us to kairos time which like the shekinah or tabor light, is untreated. Thus things in chronological past can be healed.
 
01:23:09 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:23:10 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:23:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:23:32 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:35 Cameron Jackson: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part VIII

One of the most wonderful things that someone said in the group tonight was: “I am amazed at how simple it all is!”  And they are absolutely right in their observation. All that the fathers tell us - about the struggle for purity of heart and overcoming the passions, seeking stillness and constancy in prayer - comes down to one simple reality. 
God is love and that all run but “one receives the prize without effort!” He who humbles himself will be exalted. The moment we turn the mind and the heart to God and - even prior to that - the mere existence of humility in our hearts leads God to lift us up to gaze upon him face-to-face. It is like a child who has no illusions about his self-worth or identity, but simply reaches out for the parent and is lifted up immediately in love!
It is this love that the hesychast seeks above all things; the eye of the heart is constantly turned toward and seeking the Belived. What is the one thing necessary that our Lord speaks about in the gospel? Mary sat at his feet being nourished upon his words of love and his presence. This is the better part. We so often complicate our lives and spend years and decades pursuing what the false self tells us that we need or where we will find dignity and the fullness of life. In the end, there is no ladder! There is only love and the urgent longing that makes us strive for it.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 230, #68
 
00:30:26 Anthony: There is a tension though, between a situation that is wrong which should be made right, and waiting in patience
 
00:33:32 Anthony: Ok, so like Abraham had a promise that took a long timevtivrealize
 
00:33:41 Anthony: Long time to realize
 
00:34:58 Anthony: Thank you
 
00:37:15 Fr Marty AZ 480-292-3381: be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. 1Peter 4:7
 
00:39:41 Julie’s iPad: It’s hard when you’re accused of something you didn’t do or say not to defend yourself.
 
00:51:14 Anthony: Ego is the false self. Is Despondency a false remorse?
 
00:53:58 Nypaver Clan: Without effort?
 
00:55:09 Kate : I am really blown away by the simplicity of this.  How many times I have complicated the spiritual life!
 
00:58:02 David: I wasted years reading books and talking to people on discernment which always was a labyrinth of paths. On a retreat a old Jesuit Priest made it easy in 1 minute: Does this lead me closer to God or away from God. Our intellect often gets us lost and like a rocking chair giving us something to do but going nowhere.
 
00:59:41 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I wasted years readi..." with 🎯
 
01:02:25 Susanna Joy: There is a proverb in Islam: There are as many ways to God as there are breaths of His creatures.
 
01:02:34 Anthony: FYI it was college professors and lawyers who, from late scholasticism
through "reformation " and spirit of vatican 2 caused us so many problems. 
 
01:03:04 Susanna Joy: It is as simple as the next breath, to turn back to God.
 
01:12:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: The next book, we’ll be doing is “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 .
 
01:14:24 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:25 David: Thank you Father David!
 
01:14:28 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Good to be with you all.
 
01:14:50 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part VII

St. John draws us into the experience of stillness and its many fruits. It is a precious gift that comes to us by the grace of God and takes root in a heart prepared through years of asceticism and watchfulness. It is our waiting upon God. 
In many ways this sums up the vocation of the hermit/monk. But it also captures the essence of our life and the life of prayer. We are ever waiting upon God to act in our life and we seek to cultivate in our hearts a receptivity to his will and grace. This is the active life, the fulfillment of the vocation for the Hesychast and of all Christians. 
The temptations that come are always going to be things that draw one out of that stillness; loneliness, despondency, etc.  Whether monk or Christians in the world we must allow ourselves to remain within the crucible of stillness. When we feel lonely and isolated, when we are agitated, our tendency is to run to others or to things within the world. This crucible purifies the desire of our hearts and our faith. 
Are we able to give our will over to God? Can we trust that he will make of our lives that which endures to eternity? So often we are set upon fixing, undoing or changing the circumstances of our life that seem inconsistent with what is good or what will lead to a sense of fulfillment. However, when we long for God and when we turn to his love, we become free from being tossed about by the chaos of life. Our hearts find rest only in the Lord - He who is an eternal rock.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 229, #57
 
00:16:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Happy feast day, Fr. Charbel!
 
00:27:38 Erick Chastain: The rule of St Benedict even says that there is no eating outside of the communal mealtime. So those who follow the rule outside of the monastery can follow this too.
 
00:32:22 Anthony: Maybe it could be a person who entered this kind of life is not called to
it?
 
00:34:13 Art: My family has been out of the country for 2.5 weeks.  I’ve been trying to give myself a little taste of the solitary life from the little I know. I’m sure my attempt is laughable compared to monks, but I still found it hard!
 
00:34:14 Callie Eisenbrandt: Can this be related to like normal life? Separating yourself from the world work on your relationship with the Lord - It is difficult to find a "good" community with support - so how is one supposed to mimic this when they are in society
 
00:43:01 Una: Blessed name day, Fr. Charbel. Any books or sources of his teachings you can recommend?
 
00:45:11 Cindy Moran: This might seem nuts but I waited until God sent me a mate who loves Jesus more than me
 
00:45:51 Anthony: "Love is a Radiant Light" is, I believe,  a collection of St Charbel homilies
 
00:46:15 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "This might seem nuts..." with 🥰
 
00:47:15 Callie Eisenbrandt: Connect me Father! lol
 
00:49:11 Callie Eisenbrandt: haha thank you
 
00:51:00 Susanna Joy: A cruise / retreat would be good...count me in!
 
00:52:25 Anthony: In my experience, the torrents of unwelcome thoughts are a military maneuver to draw one's attention to the head and away from a still heart.
 
00:53:23 susan: for the sake of the 10 good men   God saved the city
 
00:54:22 Susanna Joy: Ok!
 
00:54:59 Susanna Joy: Mountains in Maine and prayerful company😊
 
00:55:08 Leilani Nemeroff: Agree about being trapped on a boat!
 
01:03:45 Susanna Joy: Crucible
 
01:12:44 Una: What chapter are we in?
 
01:13:10 Una: Thanks. I'm new
 
01:13:32 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new"
 
P. 230
 
01:13:44 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new"
 
#67
 
01:14:11 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new"
 
😇
 
01:18:33 Nypaver Clan: God bless you on your Feast Day, Fr. Charbel!  🙏🏼
 
01:18:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:30 Jeff O.: Thank you Father, great to be with you all.
 
01:19:47 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father, wonderful session.
 
01:19:49 Ann’s iPad: God Bless you Father
 
01:19:56 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you! Happy name day!
 
01:20:03 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Book title?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part VI

St. John Climacus once again gives us powerful images to help us understand the meaning of stillness and how it is to be protected. One such image is that of an eyelash that falls into the eye and creates irritation. The enemy of stillness is agitation; we are often driven to distraction by a concern for our physical and emotional well-being. Fear can create within us a kind of hypochondria. We become hypersensitive to our health and well-being. Unchecked, this fear can be become so excessive that it creates a massive neurosis that prevent us from trusting in the providence and promises of God. We no longer feel ourselves being drawn along by love or seeking to remain in that stillness in order that we might know intimacy with the beloved. Rather, we desperately push forward, driving ourselves to the point of exhaustion, seeking a worldly peace and security. 
However, in this we deprive ourselves of a childlike sense of wonder at the life and love the God has made possible for us. Therefore, as Christ tells us, we may not experience the kingdom even though it dwells within us because we are focused upon controlling our life and shaping our own identity. Once the simplicity is lost, it can lead to a kind of quiet desperation. Our hearts long for love from others and from God, but in the complexity that we have created and the thick hedge of responsibilities with which we surround ourselves, we lose faith and hope that such freedom can ever be ours again.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 228, #48
 
00:26:14 Anthony: Another issue is for one in involuntary solitude, having a desire for companionship goes out to fill the void
 
00:27:33 Anthony: This is a reason for excessive social media or tv or radio, and God's gifts are dissipated
 
00:30:57 Bob Cihak, AZ: The stutters are because you're reflecting as we go.
 
00:36:19 Anthony: Not to analyze the thoughts.  I've been surprised by horrid thoughts, and thereafter been so concerned about them, that concern brings them to mind.
 
00:47:15 Kate : It’s almost as if we don’t trust the grace of God.  We don’t trust the Providence of God and His Presence within the soul.
 
00:55:09 Susanna Joy: So true...believing the promise of God's everlasting goodness is key. Elizabeth said to Mary: Blessed is she who believed that the promise made by God would be fulfilled.
And it is true for all of us.
 
00:57:32 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Covid was a curse *and* a blessing, it brought Fr Abernethy to my life...I am so grateful 🙏
 
00:57:51 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a..." with 🥰
 
00:57:57 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a…" with 🥰
 
00:58:40 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a…" with 👌
 
01:03:55 Susanna Joy: Yes...wonder!
 
01:04:13 Greg C: It was a blessing to me as I began to read scripture much more deeply, and understand the Divine Liturgy with so much more love.
 
01:04:26 Susanna Joy: Reacted to It was a blessing to... with "❤️"
 
01:04:36 Susanna Joy: Reacted to Covid was a curse *a... with "❤️"
 
01:04:46 Greg C: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a..." with ❤️
 
01:16:49 Susanna Joy: Jesus did say, unless you become like little children you cannot enter the kingdom of God.
 
01:19:21 Susanna Joy: Trust and Wonder.💗
 
01:19:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:08 Cindy Moran: My birthday is July 8...I will be thinking of you!
 
01:21:18 Sharon: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part V

There is a beautiful movement created in the heart by St. John’s writing; it is almost a dance. We move back-and-forth with St. John by simultaneously reflecting upon the beauty of silence and stillness and the intimacy that we experience with God through it - while also being shown what the loss of the silence does to us.
The silence of which St. John speaks is not just the absence of noise, but rather the presence of a love and life that transcends our understanding. It can only be experienced. Therefore, St. John holds out before us the intimacy for which our our hearts long and that can be found in the silence while also warning us of the dangers and the pitfalls that allow this great gift to slip through our fingers.
The more we become attentive to the interior life, the more we realize how easily we can be distracted; how our thoughts and feelings can be manipulated either by our own appetites or by demonic provocation. It has been said that “Hurry destroys both poets and Saints“. The frenetic activity that surrounds us agitates and fragments the mind and the heart. To live in such a state for a long period of time dulls one’s sensibilities not only to the finer things of life but to God himself. 
Thus, the preliminary task John tell us is disengagement from all affairs, whether reasonable or senseless. Both can be equally distracting to us. In fact, it’s often easier for us to recognize the inane things to which we direct our attention then it is to see how the responsibilities and demands that we have set for ourselves places us on a never-ending treadmill of activity of mind and body. 
And so let us simplify our lives. It does not take long for us to realize the gains of doing so. We begin to taste, perhaps for the first time, the sweetness of those things that endure.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:54 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 227, #41
 
00:37:54 David: OBS software?
 
00:40:41 Leilani Nemeroff: True, I stopped watching tv. It’s amazing how annoying it is when you’re exposed.
 
00:41:22 Cindy Moran: Most major movie trailers will have a cut every second.
 
00:43:15 Callie Eisenbrandt: Father- sometimes I feel guilty turning to the Jesus prayer when I'm feeling distracted or off track, like my mind isn't where it needs to be to be saying the prayer
 
00:44:16 Leilani Nemeroff: Yes, pronounced correctly!
 
00:44:26 Cindy Moran: The term for what you describe is called "jump cut"
 
00:44:41 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "The term for what yo..." with 👍
 
00:45:28 David: Something interest on OBS. We do educational conferences and if more than 15 seconds of silence passes we loose 15-20% of attendants. AHAD apparently has become a norm
 
00:45:32 Rebecca Thérèse: People are advised that their film clips should be no longer than 3 seconds otherwise people lose attention
 
00:50:11 Anthony: There's an Orthodox priest, Fr. Barnabas Powell, who says "you are not your thoughts." That really good when thoughts waylay a person like hoodlums.
 
00:50:38 David: I was taught to see it as waves coming in from the shore for the Jesus Prayer which really helps. It does have a soothing repetition that is similiar.
 
00:55:35 Maureen Cunningham: Human doing not being
 
00:55:37 Lori Hatala: Sometimes when saying the Jesus prayer I must say it slowly and loudly when having distracting thoughts until they subside.
 
00:57:31 Dave Warner (AL): Silence is also the domain of software programmers.
 
00:58:23 Anthony: In Lercara Friddi, Sicily the town was so silent in siesta that I could hear the pigeons cooing.
 
01:05:34 Jennifer Ahearn: Ineffable ‘internal journey’
 
01:07:34 David: God calls us by name the devil by our sin. We are not defined by our faults
 
01:08:43 Cindy Moran: I wrote in my Bible when I was 15 yrs old: "Even in my biggest mistake, I am not a mistake"
 
01:12:28 Kate : I find that the time I am most vulnerable to distraction is after receiving Holy Communion.  Sometimes the Jesus Prayer is the only thing I can grasp hold of, so as not to be swept away by the distractions.  It is quite a battle sometimes.
 
01:18:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Sometimes the parking lot is more conducive to prayer after communion than the church
 
01:19:09 Jacqulyn: Wow! 15 minutes... bring it on! :-)
 
01:19:23 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing keep you in prayer Amen
 
01:19:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:38 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you
 
01:19:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father very inspiring session!
 
01:19:41 David: Thank you father!
 
01:19:51 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you
 
01:19:51 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father - what a Blessing!
 
01:19:54 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part IV

In pursuing life in Christ, the experience of reality is often turned on its head. Our perception of the world around us and the interior world is shaped and formed by so many forces and influences. In a counterintuitive fashion, we have to move in opposing directions to the things that satisfy our ego or the desires of the flesh. 
Needless to say this can be disconcerting. We may see ourselves as understanding the faith or as having grown in certain virtues only to have it dispersed in an instant by the light of God’s truth. Whether it is something small or great, we can see how far we are from the stillness of mind and body of which Saint John speaks. Indeed, St. John tells us that many of these things the common run of men will find quite alien to themselves.
We are often cast about on the sea of our emotions or blown like a reed in the wind. We struggle with a certain aberration of mind; that is, we are ever so inconstant and changeable in the way that we live our lives. If one does not acknowledge this and struggle throughout the years to purify the heart, then to enter into the life of solitude and stillness can only lead to derangement. 
If what guides us is not the humble love and desire to give ourselves over completely to Christ then we are going to be fragmented internally by the most fierce passions. Anger will increase and even the memories of past wounds within the mind can fuel our resentment and drive us to the brink of madness. The person who enters into stillness well is completely unruffled by the chaos that exist in our world and becomes abstracted from the things that take hold of other peoples imagination as having great value. For the hesychast, however, there is only Christ!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:08 Greg C: Father, is that still Step 27?  I missed last week.
 
00:06:16 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: page 226 paragraph 32
 
00:06:24 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: yes.  Step 27
 
00:06:33 Greg C: Thank you!
 
00:09:50 Bob Cihak, AZ: Will our next book be Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian, by Holy Transfiguration Monastery?
 
00:10:14 Adam Paige: Reacted to "                    …" with ☦️
 
00:25:08 Art: Where can a lay person obtain a basic rule to follow, to grow with, and progress in?
 
00:27:19 Adam Paige: https://store.melkite.org/product/publicans-prayer-book/
 
00:27:49 Art: Reacted to "https://store.melkit..." with 👍
 
00:40:04 Cindy Moran: also " to make sublime "
 
00:56:28 Fr Marty, AZ: Being with people who push my buttons, seems to me, to be one of God’s most common ways of showing me what He wants to heal in me. Metropolitan Vlachos, with his priests in mind, once wrote a book on the healing found in the Desert Fathers. He admitted that they had a good academic study of theology, but he lamented that they did not know how to lead their flocks into healing because they had not gone down the path to their own healing. His remark in the book was, “Theology…is the fruit of a man’s healing.”
 
01:01:20 Ren Witter: That day, I might have gotten a message from Fr. Charbel saying he was going into permanent seclusion 😂
 
01:01:57 Julie’s iPad: St Diadochos taught:  “ Just as, when the doors of the baths are left continually open,the heat inside is quickly driven out,so also the soul, when it wishes to say many things, even though everything that it says may be good, disperses its concentration through the door of the voice”.
 
01:12:45 David: 😀
 
01:13:00 Greg C: 😁
 
01:13:13 Fr Marty, AZ: :)
 
01:13:26 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session.
 
01:13:27 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:13:32 David: Thank you father!
 
01:13:33 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:13:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part III

What possibly could hesychasm or the life of hesychasts - those who live in perpetual stillness and prayer -  mean for those who living in the world; for all of those surrounded by a constant stream of noise and distraction?The answer is everything! Though few are called to this manner of life, all are destined to experience the fullness of its joy and sweetness in Christ in the kingdom. We have been made sons and daughters of God and the very Spirit of Love dwells within our hearts. 
What moves us to emulate the fathers in their discipline, to seek what they seek, must be the same desire. Our experience of Christ, our drawing close to him through prayer, the sacraments, and the scriptures must kindle within us an urgent longing for what He alone can provide. 
Those who love the things of the world do not see the pursuit of them as being extreme. Why is it when it comes to seeking the One who offers us perfect Life and Love that we become self-conscious; that we begin to worry about what others may think of us or how they might treat us? Why is this true even though Christ tells us that we should expect to be hated all by all because of His name? The Hesychast becomes the image of one who adds fire to fire. Having tasted the sweetness of Divine Love, he is willing to sell all to possess it. Gradually he becomes prayer and his life - a sacrifice of praise. In this he becomes like unto the angels.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:29:15 Michael Hinckley: what you are talking about reminds me of St Thomas' straw comment.
 
00:32:04 Nick Bodmer: I believe it was Sartre
 
00:32:20 Michael Hinckley: "other people" came from that play no exxt?
 
00:32:25 Michael Hinckley: exit
 
00:32:32 Nick Bodmer: Yes, No Exit
 
00:32:47 Susan M: YES IT WAS SARTRE
 
00:32:56 Michael Hinckley: On the feast of St. Nicholas [in 1273, Aquinas] was celebrating Mass when he received a revelation that so affected him that he wrote and dictated no more, leaving his great work the Summa Theologiae unfinished. To Brother Reginald’s (his secretary and friend) expostulations he replied, “The end of my labors has come. All that I have written appears to be as so much straw after the things that have been revealed to me.” When later asked by Reginald to return to writing, Aquinas said, “I can write no more. I have seen things that make my writings like straw.”
 
00:55:18 Rebecca Thérèse: It made a big difference to me when I was talking to a Catholic priest and I realised that he really believed what he was saying. That was one of the main things that informed my decision to become Catholic having previously been Anglican.
 
00:57:13 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "It made a big differ..." with 🥰
 
01:01:20 Michael Hinckley: need to drop This Holy Priest is living much of what is mentioned here. He is part time hermit and fun to watch https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIcePO_eJb28EWIw68kBQMew0vMZydwj1
 
01:07:28 Kate : It seems like he is giving us an examination of conscience when he lists the different places on the ladder.
 
01:08:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "It seems like he is ..." with 👍🏼
 
01:11:41 Andres Oropeza: What if you suffer from despondency but the common life isn’t an
option and yet the battle rages around you, or even if you aren’t alone but the people with you can’t offer what’s needed? Should we not pursue stillness by cutting out distractions, focus on prayer and fasting etc. or temper it in some way?
 
01:19:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:05 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all.
 
01:20:09 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part II

It’s hard to imagine ourselves as being nourished upon stillness and silence. Yet, this is exactly what the fathers and St. John Climacus seek to teach us. Stillness allows us to have an experiential knowledge of intimacy with God - an encounter with Mystery.  When we have shut the door to the senses, when we stilled our mouth from constant chatter and when we have shut the gate of the heart to demonic powers, it is then that we become prayer and gaze upon the Lord face-to-face. Our petitions, our needs and sorrows are written with love and zeal. 
We are to become an earthly image of an angel, whose prayer has not only been freed from sloth and negligence, but even from a kind of self-consciousness. The heart is ever ready for the Lord and His approach; and even if the body should sleep, the heart is awake and awaiting the beloved. 
Therefore, stillness is not only about being quiet, but rather it is a path to intimacy. The greater one’s love grows, the more passionate one becomes in their desire for God - everything on the periphery fades away and we see only our Lord.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:13 Fr. Charbel: page 223 no 11
 
00:24:18 Kate : “What more do you want, 0 soul! And what else do you search for outside, when within yourself you possess your riches, delights, satisfactions, fullness, and kingdom - your Beloved whom you desire and seek? Be joyful and gladdened in your interior recollection with Him, for you have Him so close to you. Desire Him there, adore Him there. Do not go in pursuit of Him outside yourself. You will only become distracted and wearied thereby, and you shall not find Him, nor enjoy Him more securely, nor sooner, nor more intimately than by seeking Him within you.” St John of the Cross
 
00:30:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Can the Holy Spirit shine light on the soul directly, for example if there is no suitable spiritual director or if there are people actively trying to corrupt and mislead the soul?
 
00:39:08 Nypaver Clan: Is it healthy to have a spiritual director who becomes ones “best friend”?  Where are the boundaries to be set for a spiritual director?
 
00:41:54 Rachel: Yes, it jeopardizes their capacity to love, purely. As we cannot love purely with a gaze directed towards self or creatures
 
00:43:40 Rachel: it reduces the capacity to see God in the other and the only way a priest can help another or lay people help another is to first know God, to seek God and the ultimatele friendship in God, " I call you friends"
 
01:08:00 Fr Marty, AZ: I wanted to add to spiritual direction discussion. Everything that was said about spiritual directors is important. Boundaries and confidentiality are needful and we’re also meant to grow in detachment; that’s part of hesychasm. Nonetheless, this doesn’t mean without care and affection. I’ve been close to spiritual directors, especially after ten or fifteen years of direction. And I’ve also became good friends of their other spiritual children. In a detached way, we had joy, love, and openness, but still my spiritual directors were not friends.  And boundaries were still maintained. And when we’ve buried them, the other spiritual children fondly remembered their care for us. On the other hand, I once asked a friend who is an exceptional spiritual director to be mine but it didn’t work out.
 
01:10:09 Eric Ewanco: I observe that stillness and silence plays a central role in the desert fathers, but I don't recall it being discussed in Scripture. Is this based on experience and tradition, or is it rooted in something in Scripture?
 
01:13:31 Greg C: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:44 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you.
 
01:13:48 Lori Hatala: Happy Birthday
 
01:14:27 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
 
01:14:35 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
 
01:14:38 Nypaver Clan: A blessed birthday, Mrs. A.!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVII: On Stillness of Mind and Body, Part I

St. John Climacus brings us now to discuss the fruits of the ascetic life. We picked up this evening with Step 27 on “stillness of mind and body”. John is very hesitant to approach such a subject. He does not want to distract the warrior from the task at hand; that is, those who are engaged in the spiritual warfare against the passions and the provocations of the evil one.  He only relents because he understands how important it is to see the goal of the spiritual life so that it might increase our desire for God and our detachment from the things of the world. 
Holy stillness emerges when the Nous, the eye of the heart, has become impenetrable and undistracted by the noise of the world. The disordered passions have now become a purified and single passion or desire for God. The love of and immersion in silence deepens because it is there that God speaks a Word that is equal to Himself. The language of Love, beyond words, begins to well up from within - united to the Spirit that cries out with groans that are beyond our understanding. 
St. John acknowledges that many will not perceive or grasp the holy violence of the Hesychast; that is, the radical turning away from the things of the world in order to turn completely toward God. This turning toward God, however, does not limit our vision or comprehension as those who are worldly often believe. Rather, it opens us up to an experience of infinite mystery of God himself; everlasting Life and Love.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 221
 
00:06:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Sept 27 On Holy Stillness
 
00:36:18 Anthony: How do we relate, then to people like I have met, pagan Hindus and a Muslim, who also appeared to me to have this spirit of peace?
 
00:41:16 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:41:32 Rachel: Saint Charles de Foucald
 
00:41:55 Rachel: Algeria
 
00:42:05 Rachel: same as St. Charles De Foucald
 
00:43:55 David: O Gods and Men is the movie
 
00:44:25 David: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588337/
 
00:45:06 David: The original is French Des Hommes et des dieux
 
00:47:14 Jeff O.: When I was Nepal, the Christians would, instead of greeting with “namaste” greet with the phrase “J’amasee” - “I honor Christ (and his work) in you.” I thought that was a beautiful way to greet people with the honor and love of seeing Christ in the other…
 
00:49:17 Rachel: This happens in iconography as well/
 
00:49:31 Anthony: Reacted to This happens in icon... with "👍"
 
00:49:41 Rachel: Or I should say, sacred art as opposed to iconogrpahy
 
00:53:09 Rachel: I am not criticizing either but making a distinction when someone thinks that" abstraction" in iconography is simplified, yet, it is the overly realistic and naturalistic emphasis on every line that detracts from the mystery that is being revealed before us.
 
00:58:22 Rachel: Oh my goodness. That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
 
01:00:03 Anthony: Reacted to When I was Nepal, th... with "👍"
 
01:01:09 Maureen Cunningham: Did Father Damion who lived among the leaders in Hawaii
 
01:01:27 Anthony: Replying to "I am not criticizing..." 
 
 Compare the "naive" ...
 
01:02:17 Maureen Cunningham: He would go on a boat to and yell his confessions. I was told
 
01:02:44 David: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165196/
 
01:11:26 David: Theology without practice is the theology of demons- Maximus the Confessor
 
01:14:34 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
 
01:15:02 David: Thank you father!
 
01:15:02 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you
 
01:15:05 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:15:05 Jeff O.: thank you!
 
01:15:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank yu
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part IX

We come to the end of Step 26 on Discernment and in doing so we begin to see, or at least get a glimpse of, its importance for the spiritual life. So often sin distorts are perception of reality. It prevents us from seeing with clarity both the dignity and the blessings that come from being a son or daughter of God, baptized into Christ - as well as preventing us from seeing the darkness of sin. 
Christ tells us in the gospel that when the eye has been darkened completely, how great is the darkness! When the eye of the heart, the eye of the soul is darkened by sin then all that we see is the world before us in its most basic form. We see it as an object of consumption or we covet the things that we do not possess. 
In this we can become more like beasts who walk on all fours with their eyes cast down to the earth. It is discernment that allows us to see the glory of God in Christ Jesus. In the end, discernment gives rise to the acquisition of love - that is to say, the perfect dwelling of God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:56 David: Father Mike Schmidt and neuroplasticity as well say with defects to right out the story or triggers. What leads to what and one often fines one needs to focus on the triggers and write a different story.
 
00:16:18 David: Like a dog returning to vomit. Can't get that out of my head now
 
00:27:38 Wayne: Very timely as suicide is being offered as an option if one finds their suffering overwhelming.
 
00:29:07 David: In one of my darkest times and despair I realized I had belief but no faith
which is tied with hope. Now I just think what am I to learn from this situation and it will pass.
 
00:34:33 Anthony: There is a particularly horrible thought: curse God and die
 
00:35:00 Anthony: That cuts at rather suffering soul's very hope
 
00:48:47 Anthony: Father, remember cooking and baking are arts, to be done well...like the Cathdral of Monreale.  😉  but yeah, I get you. 😀
 
00:52:27 Maureen Cunningham: Christ dwell with in us when we gather we bring  the body of Christ together
 
00:52:48 David: I think it got worse after COVID few shake hands and it seems there is little small talk.
 
00:57:58 Anthony: I've studied heresies and heretics for years. I observe that along with with religious differences  - maybe preceding them - is a break in communion or a lack of peace: nationalism or personal trauma
 
01:10:51 Susanna Joy: My heart is still back at the dog and the priest...
 
01:10:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:00 Andrew Adams: Great class tonight! Thank you, Father!
 
01:11:02 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:11:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session!
 
01:11:48 David: God Bless thank you Father David!
 
01:11:49 Art: Thank you
 
01:11:50 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:11:58 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XIII

Every week it is as if we are diving into living waters that renew and refresh the soul. This is particularly true of step 26 on Discernment and St. John’s summary towards its conclusion. So often as is true with the Fathers, St. John makes use of concrete and colorful imagery to capture for us the nature of the spiritual life and in this case discernment. 
What one gathers in so many of the teachings is that Faith involves seeing; a pulling back of the veil that allows us to see with perfect clarity the love and the mercy of God. St. John describes the many things that hobble us in that regard: Avarice, pride, attachment to our appetites and desire for the things of this world. It also describes the things that sharpen that vision and open us up to receive the gift of faith. Our pursuit of the virtues, and of the truth in our life lays the foundation to receive the greater gift of eternal Truth. This kind of seeing is not passive but rather involves the whole self. The deepest part of ourselves, the Nous, must be purified by Grace and asceticism so no impediment prevents us from moving toward God. The Nous becomes the “helmsman” then to lead us through the rough waters of this world.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 219 number 42
 
00:49:30 Lisa Smith: It reminds me of the verse where Christ asked if there would be faith in the end time.
 
00:51:43 Wayne: How do you respond to the remark I am spiritual but not religious?
 
00:58:48 Lisa Smith: Thoughts on church attendance? I'm struggling with this presently. I'm not Catholic, but I'm interested in this faith. Thank you Fr.
 
01:00:34 Lisa Smith: 🙏 Thank you
 
01:03:14 Cindy Moran: Teilhard de Chardin comes to my mind as an example.
 
01:03:40 Cindy Moran: Too complicated
 
01:15:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:10 sprou: did you see that a blind woman Dafne Gutierrez was healed by St
Charbel?
 
01:15:12 Lisa Smith: God bless you Fr. Thanks for sharing
 
01:15:51 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:02 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XII

As St. John draws us forward with these simple sayings about discernment and its fruit, we begin to see the immeasurable beauty of the ascetic life and the action of God’s grace. The life that God calls us to is not one of frenetic activity but rather the cultivation of purity of heart and humility in order that He might act within us. We do not seek simply freedom from sin but rather the life of the kingdom. It is the love, the virtue, the goodness of Christ that transforms the world. It is our entrance into the Paschal Mystery, the dying and rising of the spiritual life (with and in Christ), that makes the love of the kingdom present to the world. 
The life of the hesychasts, the ascetics who set all aside for Christ, is at the very heart of the church. When we lose sight of their love and desire for God, the church grows cold.  It is in the spirituality of the desert that the church will find renewal; when the minds and the hearts of men and women are open to the beauty of the life that God has called us to by His Grace.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:37:24 Anthony: In a way, some of the response to church scandal has been like an ill- guided peasants crusade.
 
00:39:35 Anthony: The peasants crusade led to harm for thr peasants
 
00:54:23 sprou: does solitude equal spiritual warfare?
 
00:55:33 David: I liked what Bishop Barron said about love being willing the good of the other. (St. John Paul) but first one needs to know what the good is and what is truth.
 
00:56:03 Vanessa: Reacted to "I liked what Bishop ..." with 👍
 
00:56:58 Jeff O.: I’ve often wondered about the connection between the cultivation of
hesychia and Paul’s admonition to stand in Ephesians 6…it seems there’s some sort of relationship there as it relates to warfare
 
00:57:01 David: This was in response to a lot of virtue signaling and some of the strange things in our culture.
 
01:04:43 Kate : A priest told me that hesychia is a form of quietism.  His comment confused me, and I did not know how to reply.
 
01:06:47 Anthony: Uh oh, Palmas vs Barlaam again..... 😉
 
01:08:39 David: In Latin America it is common with quasi liberation theology priest and lay
people to call them navel gazers but this is just seeing the outside aspect not understanding what is being developed. I always call the fathers the intranauts boldly going to the root of our condition.
 
01:13:18 David: Holiness attracts and people seek what they feel and see in joy and peace of others. N
 
01:13:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "Holiness attracts an..." with ❤️
 
01:13:51 Vanessa: Really enjoying class tonight. Lots of good discussion.
 
01:14:25 Kate : Father, prior to listening to these classes and discovering the Fathers, my ladder was propped against the wrong wall for years…as you stated earlier.  These classes and the Fathers have so transformed my interior life.   I have only begun to understand the love of God.
 
01:15:04 Nick Bodmer: Jesus even rebuked Martha because she was discontent that Mary was not being "worldly enough" in her eyes.  The spiritual life was established even while Jesus was still with us.
 
01:21:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:51 cmoran: Thank you, Father!
 
01:21:53 Lisa Smith: Thank you God bless you
 
01:22:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! Praying for you!
 
01:22:33 Jeff O.: Thank you! Blessing to be with you all.
 
01:22:41 David: Thank you father will pray for you!
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XI

We continued with St. John’s summary of discernment and its particular fruit in the spiritual life. However, it does not read like a summary. Each saying opens us up to a divine reality and a participation in the life of Christ that comes to us by grace and the ascetic life. One cannot help but be captivated by the beauty of what St. John describes. It becomes evident that what we are being drawn into is the very beauty of Christ and that of the kingdom. Grace has the capacity to transform even the darkest of things within us and to illuminate the mind and the heart to see clearly what has eternal value. With the reading of each saying one begins to experience a holy desire growing within the heart. Thanks be to God!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:34 FrDavid Abernethy: page 217 page 14
 
00:25:57 Anthony: He says this while I'm making dinner....
 
00:31:19 David: Despair is suffering without meaning- Victor Frankl
 
00:49:34 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Κλίμαξ αγίου Ιωάννου.LadderClimatuspdf" with ❤️
 
00:49:43 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf" with 👍
 
00:50:29 Lisa Smith: Reacted to "TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf" with 🙏
 
00:57:24 David: The gate also opens like Grace and one needs to be drawn to the opening in the fence.
 
01:02:59 Anthony: If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts....
 
01:20:11 David: They are finding so much in neuroplasticity that the fathers described ages ago. One the pathways are established it becomes a cycle. Lots of talk about "rewiring the mind". I think fasting might actually help with rewiring because you are not rewarding a undesired behavior.
 
01:20:36 Rachel: That was in relation to the other discussion
 
01:21:56 David: No money in fasting
 
01:22:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting literally rewires the brain because the body starts to generate new neurons after 48 hours of fasting.
 
01:22:24 Vanessa: Reacted to "Fasting literally re..." with 👍
 
01:22:30 David: Autophagy as well
 
01:23:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "Autophagy as well" with 👍
 
01:25:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Autophagy is where the cells start to digest damaged parts of the body and damage interior to cells
 
01:26:04 Bob Cihak: Autophagy is also known as apoptosis. I call it cellular recycling.
 
01:26:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting stimulates growth hormone which os useful in repairing damage and is also useful if you're a body builder
 
01:26:49 Susanna Joy: Love this clas🙏🏻💖
 
01:26:59 Lisa Smith: Too Fast. Thank you Fr
 
01:27:41 Sophia: God bless you fr.Abernethy!
 
01:27:42 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
01:27:42 Art: Thank you Father!
 
01:27:43 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:27:43 David: Thank you father !
 
01:27:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part X

As we come toward the end of Step 26 on Discernment, St. John begins to offer us a summary of all that we have considered in the previous pages. In doing this, he alters his typical way of writing. One may speculate that he does this because of the importance of the virtue of discernment; both in fostering it and in protecting it.  Using brief sayings, very much like those found in the Philokalia, St. John begins to lay out for us the path to perfecting this virtue as well as to speak of the fruits of it in our lives. 
Our capacity to see spiritual realities in an unimpeded fashion allows us to be attentive to all of the vices as well as the remedies that the fathers set before us for overcoming them. In summarizing the step in this fashion, St. John presents us with the truth very much in the way that we receive it from the gospel. It overturns the worldly way of viewing things. It allows us to experience the discomfort of having our sensibilities challenged in regards to our patterns of thought and our most basic desires. It compels us to ask ourselves, “For whom  do I live? Who do I love above all things?”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:02:46 FrDavid Abernethy: page 215
 
00:02:51 FrDavid Abernethy: number 85
 
00:03:29 FrDavid Abernethy: number 185
 
00:08:47 Tracey Fredman: Thank you, Fr. David for referencing the book "Toward God" by Michael Casey. It's amazing!
 
00:08:57 FrDavid Abernethy: great!!
 
00:09:11 FrDavid Abernethy: he’s a wonderful writer
 
00:09:40 Kate : I am reading it too!  It is wonderful.   Like nothing I have read before.
 
00:09:41 FrDavid Abernethy: his book on lectio divina called Sacred reading is great too
 
00:26:15 Anthony: Do you have any comments on discerning the origin of thoughts without playing with the thoughts?
 
00:43:12 Anthony: That makes sense since Eros is a seeking, inquisitive movement.
 
00:51:38 David Swiderski: Especially prayer with gratitude.
 
00:52:19 Andy Nguyen: Replying to "Especially prayer wi..." 
 
 Yup
 
00:52:21 Wayne: Reacted to "Especially prayer wi..." with 👍
 
00:58:03 Lisa Smith: I just read this today.
 
01:01:41 Andy Nguyen: Social media in general is an addiction
 
01:02:00 Rod Castillo: I go on to Facebook every day to see what you
have posted, Father
 
01:02:36 Lee Graham: I go to X
 
01:03:05 Susanna Joy: Reacted to I go on to Facebook ... with "❤️"
 
01:03:35 Lisa Smith: Yeah, there was a time I would turn the internet off totally. It was easier to pray more fully then. I struggle with that these days.
 
01:03:44 Susanna Joy: Replying to "I go on to Facebook ..." 
 
 I do too...you often...
 
01:04:26 Lisa Smith: But on the flip side I discovered Eastern Christianity online.
 
01:04:40 Art iPhone: Reacted to "But on the flip side…" with 👌
 
01:04:46 Art iPhone: Reacted to "I go on to Facebook …" with 👌
 
01:05:45 Art iPhone: Your posts Have real value Father.
 
01:05:49 BRIAN L: Your posting of On the Passion of the Saviour became part of my daily Lenten prayer so thank you 😃
 
01:09:17 David Swiderski: I have read this before with the Fathers I think Issac and I don't understand the relation between deer and snakes. Deer seem like fragile creatures and I grew up always being close to them. Destroyers of roses and alfalfa yes.
 
01:11:14 Jeffrey Fitzgerald: Father, what is the next book after Climacus?
 
01:11:24 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Prayers, Father!
 
01:11:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂. Have a good retreat🙏
 
01:11:39 Jeff O.: Many blessings on your time there!!
 
01:11:49 Lori Hatala: and i will be guilty of jealousy
 
01:11:53 Susanna Joy: Praying for you.🙏🏻
 
01:11:55 Wayne: Replying to "Father, what is the ..."
 
good question
 
01:11:56 Art iPhone: Prayers!!
 
01:12:35 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! Have a blessed retreat!!
 
01:12:37 David Swiderski: Safe travels and God Bless you father!
 
01:12:39 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part IX

With each passing week, as we read St. John’s thoughts on discernment, we begin to see how it touches every aspect of our life. So often we confuse this gift with intellectually analyzing the circumstances around us or internal experiences and feelings or our perception of others’ actions. 
Yet discernment is not rooted in our private judgment. Rather, it arises out of union and communion with He who is Truth and Love. We engage in the ascetic life and seek purity of heart in order that we comprehend the truth unimpeded, to see things as God sees them and to see and respond to what he wants us to perceive.
Anything less than this leaves us completely vulnerable. St. John says, “let us watch and see which demon uplift us, which cast us down, which harden, which comfort, which darken, which pretend to communicate enlightenment to us, which make us slothful, which make us cunning, which make us sad, and which cheerful.”  It is only in Christ that we have the capacity to see these things. Strength and virtue of any kind comes not from climbing up a ladder of virtue on our own, but rather having Christ live within us. His virtue must become our virtue and his strength must becomes our strength. This is a difficult thing because it means letting go completely of the illusion that we can see the truth of the spiritual realities outside of our relationship with Him. It means being humble.
---
00:02:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 214 number 172
 
00:26:36 David Swiderski: I struggled with discernment most of my life and got far too intellectual analyizing everything. A  wise friend made a comment that helped me- you only need to think of two things- does this lead us closer to God or away from God.
 
00:27:10 Lisa Smith: Reacted to "I struggled with dis..." with 👍
 
00:30:31 David Swiderski: My grandfather always said wisdom is absorbed slowly over time while being intellectual is something to grasp.
 
00:32:37 Jeff O.: julian of norwich seems to say the same thing about affliction going so far as to say to actually pray for it as it is one of the greatest graces of God.
 
00:36:27 Lisa Smith: Sufficient is the evil of today, Is that what Christ said?
 
01:02:47 Johnny Ross: God forgives seven times seventy-so long as the will is there
 
01:03:12 Vanessa: Reacted to "God forgives seven t..." with ❤️
 
01:12:15 Kate : At what point and in what circumstances can we make a judgement about a situation?
 
01:14:50 David Swiderski: Everytime I see arguments on how to make the sign of the cross or taking communion in the hand or on the tongue I feel like both sides want to be right rather than acknowledge each is seeking to get close to God.
 
01:16:11 David Swiderski: The focus falls to Pride as you mentioned before.
 
01:19:11 Tracey Fredman: Most recently, Romans 15:1-6 has been quite helpful for me - it's not about pleasing myself, but for building up others and letting go of what I think they should do: St. Paul wrote "... let each of us please our neighbor for the good , for building up. For Christ did not please himself …"
 
01:23:55 Rebecca Thérèse: God is often presented to us by people who want to control us.
 
01:24:06 Ambrose Little: Avoid “Catholic” Twitter/X. Social media in general.
 
01:24:27 sheri: Thanks Father.  Gotta go...
 
01:24:52 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father!
 
01:25:30 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:25:36 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:25:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:43 David Swiderski: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XIII

Discernment, St. John tells us, arises out of humility. It also allows us to see the value of humility in the spiritual life. It is the virtue above all virtues, that we must cling to in the spiritual battle. The enemy will seek to confuse us in one way or another; by flattery or by seemingly knowing our thoughts and placing ideas before us which then make us fear their control over us. However, discernment and humility, both protect our capacity to live in He who is the truth. 
It also allows us to see the truth about ourselves as human beings and our dignity. We are not created with the passions. They rise out of our sin and the distortion of the desire that God has placed in us naturally. It is desire that makes us long for him and the life of virtue and it is anger that allows us to fight the good fight of faith and strike down the evil one and the temptations that are placed before us.  
We also find, over the course of time, that discernment allows us to let go of our judgment and what gives us security in the spiritual life and to trust wholly in God. Therefore, when life seems to crumble around us and all seems to be wrapped in darkness, discernment allows us to step forward with trust in God and his love. While it keeps us from acting in rash way it also protects us from false prudence that hides cowardice and lack of courage. 
What we begin to see is that any struggle in the spiritual life to overcome the passions, any sacrifice that we make to follow the Lord, promises what is beyond imagination. Even to lose all in this world is to lose nothing if we have Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:22 Rachel: Hello everyone
 
00:11:11 Rachel: lol
 
00:12:42 Rachel: No one will take me😭 I guess trying to convince people what sinners they are and so need to go to the Holy Annointing as well as drive me was not a good stategy
 
00:13:28 Rachel: I have been but I went to Mass at noon, and others have other obligations
 
00:13:42 Rachel: When Rory gets home, Ill try to convince him. LOL
 
00:14:08 Rachel: He will gladly go. He loves the Byzantine Liturgies
 
00:17:48 Ambrose Little: I resemble that.
 
00:31:21 David: Virtue is nothing without the trial of temptation, for there is no conflict without an enemy, no victory without strife.-St. Leo the Great
 
00:33:09 David C: Reacted to "Virtue is nothing wi..." with ❤️
 
00:34:12 mhinckley: incisive anger: I always struggle with being just with it
 
00:34:36 David C: Reacted to "incisive anger: I al..." with 👍
 
00:34:39 mhinckley: not to mention charitable
 
00:40:01 mhinckley: I have always appreciated the use of "thorn" with sin. You never intentionally grasp for a thorn, only things that thorns surround.
 
00:40:51 David C: Reacted to "I have always apprec..." with 👍
 
00:42:58 Rachel: no. he is frozen
 
00:43:03 Lisa Smith: Same here.
 
00:43:04 Bob Cihak: Me too.
 
00:43:08 David C: Yeah he was frozen on my screen as well
 
00:43:29 Rachel: I only have Rens screen
 
00:43:38 Bob Cihak: Rising from the Frozen!
 
00:43:43 sprou: Reacted to "Rising from the Froz..." with 👍
 
00:43:46 David C: Reacted to "Rising from the Froz..." with 👍
 
00:47:29 David: I always try to remember what Mother Teresa said - I am a little pencil in the hand of God. At least when good flows through me however I often need frequent sharpening and a good eraser when I write :)
 
00:48:11 David C: Reacted to "I always try to reme..." with 👍
 
00:49:53 mhinckley: Reacted to "I always try to reme..." with 👍
 
00:53:40 Bob Cihak: What about St. Paul? "You have fought the good fight."
 
00:57:29 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Examples??
 
00:59:26 David: Would this be something like instead of dwelling on a temptation and agonizing vs. simply casting the thought from our minds in the beginning?
 
01:00:26 David: Evargius a good example
 
01:15:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:13 Bob Cihak: Blessings to you, Fr.
 
01:16:20 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:21 David: Thank your Father!
 
01:16:24 Rachel: thank y ou
 
01:16:25 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:25 mhinckley: buona pasqua tutti!
 
01:16:31 Semai: Oh i joined late 😭
 
01:16:38 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Easter!
 
01:16:41 Mitch: Thanks!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XII

Discernment is so much more than our analyzing the realities and circumstances around us by the use of intellect and reason. These faculties, as wonderful as they are, have inherent limitations. They are not infinite, nor can they speak of God as he is in himself. 
What God begins to show us in the spiritual life is that the more that we enter his love and truth, the more we are drawn into a mystery that is beyond us. Faith is described by many of the Saints as a “dark obscure knowing”. It is God‘s light, his divine light, that pierces through the darkness, and reveals to us the beauty of his love. It reveals (draws back the veil) and shows us that this love is worth everything to pursue and attain. “Love never ends”, the scriptures tell us. Discernment opens the door to that reality and allows us to step towards the beloved who desires to give us all. Our destiny is to move from glory to glory in the never-ending love of God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 209 para 139
 
00:40:44 Daniel Allen: Is the inverse then true?
 
00:42:28 Amale: What can the demons see or not see within us?
 
00:46:21 Rachel: The Elder would also know that in turn.. they could merit by true charity towards each other
 
00:47:33 Rachel: Where despite the feelings of animosity that arose, the monks would then more purely offer charity in the only way they can due to their limited capacity to love purely without unholy attachments
 
00:47:55 Maureen Cunningham: Father can demons reproduce? i was just wonderfing
 
00:48:00 Maureen Cunningham: Wondering
 
00:48:49 Kate : Can the demons hear our confessions to a priest within the context of the sacrament?
 
00:49:19 Maureen Cunningham: Best News
 
00:49:25 Jeff O.: Cassian seems to say in his conferences that they cannot reproduce
 
00:50:23 Amale: Do any souls who go to hell end up becoming demons?
00:51:10 Vanessa: Replying to "Do any souls who go ..."
 
I thought demons were the 1/3 of heavenly beings who went with Lucifer.
 
00:51:17 Jeff O.: He talks about it in the eighth conference on the principalities
 
00:51:24 David: In organization studies clicks can start which can create toxic results for teams.
 
00:51:53 Rachel: It is like the story of the Desert Father who, as soon as he instructed his Spiritual son would quickly leave him
 
00:52:39 David: We becomes us and them
 
00:52:51 Rachel: I suppose that was not for the community but purity of heart
 
01:00:58 David: I have heard a critism of the western church that we try to explain everything while the east embraces mysteries to be contemplated more. When I was younger I wanted the answers the older I get the more I love contemplating mysteries more.
 
01:01:15 Vanessa: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with ❤️
 
01:01:28 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with 👍
 
01:01:57 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with ❤️
 
01:04:08 Daniel Allen: That’s an interesting comment (re poetry), because oftentimes poetry can calm my thoughts, and give me a jumping off point for prayer
 
01:04:42 Vanessa: Replying to "That’s an interestin..."
 
Psalms
 
01:05:30 David: The Syrian fathers write most things through poetry as well.
 
01:05:55 Cindy Moran: This relates to the need for formative spirituality.
 
01:06:20 Rachel: Gregory Narek
 
01:06:30 Daniel Allen: Reacted to "Gregory Narek" with ❤️
 
01:06:35 Rachel: Pope Francis
 
01:11:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️
 
01:11:40 Rachel: yes
 
01:11:41 Cindy Moran: Yes
 
01:11:46 Jacqulyn Dudasko: Thank you!
 
01:12:24 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:27 Rachel: thank you
 
01:12:29 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:12:29 Cindy Moran: Thank you
 
01:12:31 Arthur Danzi: Thank you Father
 
01:12:32 David: Thank you father! May God bless you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part XI

This evening we continued our discussion of discernment;in particular, developing an awareness of the action of the demons and their attempts to lead us astray. However, John also seeks to make us aware of the fact that it is not only the demons that we have to be aware of but our human nature in its fallen state. We are often weak of will and changeable in our mind. We are filled with contradictions and will often choose that which offers nothing over the love and the mercy of God. We have within certain destructive tendencies that are beyond reason. St. John would not have us over analyze these things but be aware of them so to avoid them and turn more radically toward God when we see them arise within our hearts.
What is most striking in this section of the Ladder is that divine light shines through John‘s own words. The open up reality for us and we see on the horizon our dignity and destiny in Christ so brilliantly that one can only gasp. It creates within the heart an urgent longing to run to the Beloved. It reveals in a fraction of the moment the entire meaning of the ascetical life. It is not about self-perfection or endurance, but rather about Love. It is about acknowledging that what has been fashioned from clay has now been placed and seated upon the very throne of God. Joy!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:27 Carolus: Good evening Father.
 
00:03:34 FrDavid Abernethy: good evening
 
00:13:08 Genesius B: Father Michael of the Eparchy of Parma can only grow a goatee
 
00:13:36 Genesius B: we still love him though
 
00:19:18 David: Is this related to as one gets closer to God sometimes the attacks of the demons become stronger and often in different ways?
 
00:23:46 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: this translations says "greedy and grubby flesh" not corpulence
 
00:28:18 Genesius B: How can such inquisitiveness lead us to pride? Surely trying to understand Divine Providence can only reveal our own wretchedness? Is it that merely trying to understand is itself beyond us and thus an act of hubris?
 
00:28:25 Genesius B: and self assetion?
 
00:34:30 Genesius B: then when gifts are given should we seek to hide them, lest we become prideful in them. I see this in many saints but how does this not violate the Divine command to not hide our light?
 
00:35:58 Carolus B: Replying to "then when gifts are ..."
 
Or to not burry our talents.
 
00:55:58 Kate : St. Elizabeth of the Trinity, a French Carmelite saint, wrote, “Let yourself be loved by God.”  I often ponder this quote.  Why do I run from this love?  We do I not allow myself to be loved by God?
 
00:59:50 Ren Witter: I don’t think, though, that we run from the love of God when it feels like love. I can’t even imagine doing that, honestly.  I think we run from what we are taught is the mysterious love of God, because more often than not it feels like something terrifying, or threatening, or even wounding.
 
01:00:05 Ren Witter: We are told to trust that these things are manifestations of the love of God.
 
01:02:02 Daniel Allen: Christ says, “everyone when he is fully taught will be like his teacher.” Imitating Christ, and the saints in deed teaches us little by little until we our not like our fallen selves but like Christ.
 
01:03:41 David: When I used to teach catechism I heard many comments when discussing the saints saying they are not like that or it is not reachable from teens and even my sons. It seems helpful to discuss the whole lives of the saints like the difficulties and sinful past of St. Ignatius. Most writings seem to focus on them being perfect and so special rather than the journey.
 
01:06:55 Rebecca Thérèse: I find that reading what the saints wrote themselves is very helpful because they're very honest about their struggles and that makes them more relatable to me.
 
01:08:28 Rachel: Yes, this is true.We are all starving. For Christ.
 
01:12:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: One's image of God is so important - a distorted one gets in the way of living faith truly. This needs to be examined and renovated many times in one's life. Important to see self in God not outside of Trinity/grace.
 
01:14:30 Andrew Adams: Reacted to " One's image of God ..." with ❤️
 
01:16:11 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:11 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father!
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!! Good to be with you all.
 
01:16:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:13 David: Thank you Father David!
 
01:16:14 sue and mark: good night
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part X

As we read St. John Climacus, we begin to see discernment as rooted in our relationship with God; a relationship that is founded upon the revelation of God‘s love and the desire that it stirs within the human heart to respond in kind. If we love God, then it is not going to seem to be a burden to us to take every thought captive and bring it before God for his blessing or judgment. Nor is waiting upon the Lord going to be a point of frustration. 
Rather, when we love God, we understand that he is going to desire what is best for us. This desire leads him to test our intentions so as to purify them. What God looks for is humility and a spirit of repentance. Faced with our own weakness, and the darkness that sin brings into our life and into the world, we must cling to God and allow him to guide us with his light.  Often only one step ahead is illuminated for us. We must be at peace with this if we have faith in him and trust in his love. 
Part of what this requires from us is an honest heart; one that avoids distractions and holds fast to innocence. Often our sensibilities can become hardened through our experience of the world, and we lose the capacity not only to be vulnerable to others but to God himself. It has been said that “haste destroys the poet and the saint”.  In the face of the frenetic pace of the world, let us hold on to simplicity and silence in order that we might hear the Beloved when he speaks to us.
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 206 number 114
 
00:16:33 Susanna Joy: It can be years and years...
 
00:16:56 Susanna Joy: ...one must have the patience of Job.
 
00:27:28 Susanna Joy: I have a friend who says, "Set all your thoughts, words, and actions as flowers at the feet of the Lord."  Then whatever the result, the intention is right.
 
00:28:10 Paul G.: Reacted to "I have a friend who …" with ❤️
 
00:30:37 Rebecca Thérèse: Therese thought of herself as a plaything of the infant Jesus so sometimes he would discard her in order to play with something else.
 
00:32:09 Genesius B.: Would it be imprudent to treat everything as beyond us, or perhaps prudent so we might never overreach?
 
00:33:35 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Would it be impruden..." 
 
 There is the riddle ...
 
00:34:50 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Would it be impruden..." 
 
 ...we must do our be...
 
00:42:31 sharonfisher: But how do we deal with the ‘warped souls’ in life as we encounter them and recognize them as too familiar to our circumstances? It seems scary.
 
00:43:00 Kate : Father, Could you offer any guidance on finding the balance between overreaching in the spiritual life versus not pushing oneself enough?  I find it very hard to get the right balance.  It is a long, hard struggle.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: 1. Thanks for explaining the unforgivable sin. 
2. No need to fall I to scrupulousity over this sin because concern about it indicates one has not confused good and evil.
3. I like a sentiment by St Paisios you shared on Facebook about keeping a calm soul so the devils can't cast their lines in our soul.
 
00:51:18 Susanna Joy: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..." 
 
 That is such a great...
 
00:52:20 Susanna Joy: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..." 
 
 Fish are tempted to ...
 
00:52:30 Susanna Joy: Reacted to 1. Thanks for explai... with "❤️"
 
00:53:10 Carolus B: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..."
 
Should we avoid holding personal goals, instead endeavoring to only hold the single goal which is the desire of God, regardless of how we feel about the outcome?
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Hahaha. Yes he might
 
00:54:07 Paul G.: Reacted to "Hahaha. Yes he might" with 😇
 
00:54:16 sharonfisher: This is an aside that you may or may not want to read re: what we deign to touch or interact with. I was crossing, on foot, an intersection to the metro station and my luggage got all sideways. This homeless-type fellow ran out and collected my stuff for me and handed it to me on the other side. I gathered a few dollars to give him. I didn’t realize what I was doing when I went to grab the bag handles, but he did — he asked, pointedly, if I was afraid to touch his hand. Apparently, I had avoided contact with him, even after his assistance. I’m ashamed to this day. And I have another story equally shameful. Won’t bore you with it. Point, I think, is to be aware of our own actions, and how others perceive them.
 
00:55:14 Genesius B.: how do we discern when one malevolently disputes with us, vs one who disputes due to a misplaced but genuine and fervent care for the soul?
 
00:55:20 Carolus B: Should we avoid holding personal goals, instead endeavoring to only hold the single goal which is the desire of God, regardless of how we feel about the outcome?
 
01:07:33 Rebecca Thérèse: People admire athletes who train physically from dawn to dusk but if people want to "train" spiritually people think they're mentally disturbed!
 
01:07:37 sharonfisher: Not sure if Eastern Church recognizes Alfred and Briget and other English saints prior to Great Schism (other than Patrick, perhaps)?
 
01:07:38 David: I always loved a tradition in northern spain. They celebrate "Tu Santo" or saints day which often is more important or more celebrated than a birthday. These celebration's always explain about the life of the saint.
 
01:08:24 Art iPhone: Looking forward to the Frances Cabrini movie coming soon.
 
01:08:33 sharonfisher: Reacted to "People admire athlet..." with ❤️
 
01:09:03 Cindy Moran: Teresa of Avila & her young brother tried to run away from home to become martyrs.
 
01:09:13 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Looking forward to t..." with ❤️
 
01:09:18 Joseph Chiappetta: Reacted to "Teresa of Avila & he..." with ❤️
 
01:10:16 Carolus B: Replying to "Teresa of Avila & he..."
 
When asked by her parents why she ran away she answered: "I want to see God, and you have to die first."
 
01:10:38 Anthony: The serious troubles caused by religious nuts make us wary of asceticism
 
01:11:03 sharonfisher: Fasting could bring one to extremes.
 
01:11:04 Ren Witter: When I was little I heard the story of a martyr who died being boiled in oil. I used to pray that that would be the one way I wouldn’t be martyred.
 
01:11:07 Genesius B.: can we go back to 124 briefly
 
01:11:15 Rebecca Thérèse: A lot of trouble is caused by atheists!
 
01:11:43 Kate : Who was it who said “I could be a martyr if they kill me real quick?”
 
01:11:58 Anthony: Replying to "Who was it who said ..." 
 
 St Thomas more?
 
01:12:00 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..."
 
how do we ensure our kids have an appropriate upbringing which would best instill these virtues beyond the mere basics
 
01:14:22 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..."
 
i.e. how do we instill a proper spirit of mortification and humility in our children?
 
01:14:43 Alice Hirsch: By saying the 12 year St. Bridget prayers, a person can become martyr like.  The promise is stated as follows:  “The soul who prays them will be accepted among the Martyrs, as though he had spilled his blood for his faith.”
 
01:14:58 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..."
 
w/o simultaneously being too harsh
 
01:15:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:13 Lee Graham: This was a most informative and spiritually strengthening teaching. So glad I attended even though I was not well. Thank you and bless you.
 
01:15:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "By saying the 12 yea..." with 🥰
 
01:15:45 Lori Hatala: feel better Lee
 
01:16:20 sue and mark: Reacted to "feel better Lee" with 🙏
 
01:16:25 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:28 David: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:28 sue and mark: Reacted to "This was a most info..." with 🙏
 
01:16:28 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:31 sharonfisher: And with your spirt!!
 
01:16:31 Genesius B.: Thank you father
 
01:16:33 sue and mark: good night
 
01:16:38 Kevin Burke: Thanks you Father!
 
01:16:41 Cindy Moran: Thanks Father's
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part IX

Discernment, as we have said, is the fruit of humility. Having removed the impediment of pride and having purified the heart of the passions, one comes to comprehend the things of the kingdom and the will of God. St. John gives us one example after another of how discernment helps us to perceive the things that lead us to God and that teach us to embrace that which endures.
 
As one progresses in the spiritual life, however, discernment is not simply the ability to know God‘s will, but rather also the ability to fulfill it in the way that God desires. In this, a soul can begin to trust in the action of the Spirit within the mind and heart. Therefore, although spiritual guides may be lacking one is not abandoned by God. Rather, God makes all things work for the good of those who love him.
 
In fact, the more one lays side ones will and turns to God in prayer and fasting, the more one lets go of the need to be driven by creativity, productivity, and one’s own intentions as a whole. The deeper the communion becomes with God, the more one finds joy in being drawn along whatever path He desires.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 204 number 105
 
00:46:02 Rebecca Thérèse: I think Teresa preferred the priest to be learned rather than just intelligent because she thought that even holy priests could be misled. A learned priest wuld be better able to communicate the infallible teaching of the Church, in her view.
 
00:50:33 Michael Hinckley: Re: lack of elders… we miss not having enough monks & nuns available in communities.
 
01:00:37 Susanna Joy: This is so similar to a practice I learned from muslim friends, where one fasts and prays 3 days begore taking decision, that God may clarify what action one should take...The fast is called istakharra...means the right path. :)
 
01:03:21 Susanna Joy: It is so good to rest in God's wisdom before taking action.
 
01:06:32 Michael Hinckley: Modernity and technology have much to blame since many things can be created ex nihilo. Tempts thinking “ye shall be like Gods"
 
01:10:48 Anthony: Yes
 
01:10:50 Rachel: Id love to see that
 
01:11:38 David: I volunteered for catechism but was surprised there was no assignment with a spiritual director and it seemed to become more of a quasi entraining push by those who were the directors by the parish. The focus was keeping the kids coming back and making faith "fun". It seemed so different from my experience here an in Spain.
 
01:13:42 Susanna Joy: https://youtu.be/LOcCXt1n-fI?si=EGIJbH3UquEgdU0C
 
01:13:43 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "I volunteered for ca..."
 
Precisely the problem.
 
01:14:40 Susanna Joy: Here is a beautiful song for you all. "Who puts his trust in God most Just"
 
01:14:41 Anthony: Pierogi making brings my parish together
 
01:14:58 Michael Hinckley: TLM communities also see the young coming b/c of lack of “fun” things
 
01:15:08 Ambrose Little: I’m not “young” and feel more or less that way.
 
01:15:25 Adam Paige: You’re young at heart, Ambrose !
 
01:15:31 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "You’re young at hear..." with 😅
 
01:15:35 Jeff O.: Reacted to "You’re young at hear..." with 😆
 
01:15:46 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I’m not “young” and ..." with 👍
 
01:16:08 Susanna Joy: Reacted to Pierogi making bring... with "❤️"
 
01:16:17 Michael Hinckley: Gnocchi are pierogis
 
01:16:20 Rachel: haha I need to go to PA
 
01:16:54 Rachel: Can activism be another way of intellectualizing the faith?
 
01:17:08 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much, Father. God bless you.🙏🏻💗
 
01:17:09 Anthony: Reacted to Gnocchi are pierogis with "😂"
 
01:17:13 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 
01:17:50 Sophia: Thank you so much fr.Abernethy. God bless you!
 
01:17:51 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:17:55 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you!
 
01:17:56 David: Thank you father!
 
01:18:01 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part VIII

In St. John’s discussion of discernment, he reveals to us the beauty of a human being transformed by the grace of God and living in communion with Christ by removing every impediment within the heart and by constantly crying out to him in prayer. At the very center of this reality is the “eye of the soul”. It is extremely beautiful, St. John explains, and next to the angels it surpasses all things. The angels constantly gaze upon God and the purified eye of the soul, the nous, allows us to contemplate the beauty of God‘s love.
There is also a freedom that comes to the soul through this purification. Our capacity to discern spiritual realities enables us to engage in the warfare with the demons more diligently and to avoid the pitfalls that are set for us. Furthermore, it allows us to understand that there is no such thing as a small sin. If neglected, it can consume the entire person. Likewise, there is no part of our life that we are to take for granted. The eye of the soul allows us to see that each moment is an opportunity for us to respond to God and to others with love; an opportunity embraced or lost. Thus, it is a very high view of the human person that is set before us; a view that allows us to understand the radical communion that exists between each of us and to see our destiny in Christ. Beautiful indeed!
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:50 sprou: virtue beyond our ability?
 
00:50:31 Nypaver Clan: “Familiarity breeds contempt.” My Mom used to say this if we spent too much time with friends.
 
00:50:54 Vanessa: Replying to "“Familiarity breeds ..."
 
My mom used to say that too lol
 
00:52:59 Anthony: St Paul, 1 Cor 7 (?) Talks about spouses separating for a bit.
 
00:53:38 Marypaz Mencos: I’ve been listening to your podcasts for a year, this is the first time I’m able to be in real time with y’all. It’s so good to put faces to all of your voices. 
God bless you Father, this podcasts have been a blessing to my spiritual life.
 
00:54:08 Vanessa: Reacted to "I’ve been listening ..." with ❤️
 
00:55:16 Amale Obeid: Replying to "St Paul, 1 Cor 7 (?)..."
 
“Let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.” Gibran Khalil Gibran (Lebanese poet)
 
00:56:14 Susan M: Reacted to "I’ve been listening ..." with ❤️
 
01:05:40 Vanessa: Enjoying this very much tonight.
 
01:07:43 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Yet St. Basil came back from the desert saying the complete Gospel calls us to include service of others in one's authentic spiritual life...
 
01:13:27 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Sacrificial intercessory prayer for others is also service of the Body of Christ
 
01:13:52 Amale Obeid: Reacted to "Sacrificial interces..." with ❤️
 
01:18:37 Anthony: That kind of sounds superstitious, like an augury.
 
01:19:27 Anthony: Morning offering....yes. but there's repentance to a bad start and a possible bad end to a good start.
 
01:26:08 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father from Maureen & Kenneth
 
01:26:11 Arthur Danzi: That was wonderful. Thank you, Father!
 
01:26:14 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:26:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:26:21 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:26:21 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:26:24 David: Thanks Father!
 
01:26:34 Alexandra K: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part VII

As we have discussed, the fruit of humility is discernment. But what is that? Is it simply private judgment, a human wisdom that has deepened over the course of the years? 
St. John gradually begins to reveal to us that it is a freedom that emerges from the removal of the impediments of our passions. A sole passion, the desire for God, begins to direct and guide our lives as well as reveal to us the truth about our actions and the realities around us. 
Yet, it is humility that must continue to guide and direct this gift of discernment. It is to see things as God sees them only because we are allowing ourselves to trust in His providence in the warp and woof of day-to-day life. Whether we are embattled or at peace, whether we are called to be obedient or to guide others, we must rely upon the grace of God. It is His love, the love of He who is the truth that allows us to comprehend the realities of this world and the world come. Thus, St. John shows us, we can never think of ourselves or the gifts that we experience abstracted from a deep intimacy with the Lord. It is only in Him and through Him that we can live the life to which he has called us and through Him that we who were blind can see!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:18:44 Arthur Danzi: I'm sorry, what chapter are we reading?
 
00:19:53 Barbara: lost sound
 
00:19:59 Rebecca Thérèse: no audio
 
00:30:48 Anthony: Maybe another example is the miser who wears shabby clothes, just to save money?
 
00:45:18 Cindy Moran: Would oriental catholics call this yin-yang?
 
00:55:50 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Would oriental catho..." 
 
 ...
01:03:06 Anthony: Another thing to be careful of is to try observing what is a true state of affairs but to stop short of having unholy judgment or even feelings or inclination to hound something bad out or to resent something.
 
01:08:23 Carol Roper: Beware the leaven of the pharisees
 
01:09:21 David Swiderski: I used to waste a lot of time thinking and rethinking about decisions and people. Even doing this I often made bad decisions and was taken advantage by or attacked by people. I now simply concentrate on - does this lead me closer to God or further away from God. I also pay attention to the mood, other things around me much more.
 
01:11:42 Cindy Moran: Would oriental catholics call this yin-yang? My ? maybe not seen?? My relatives say that all religion is the same...
 
01:13:03 sam: I think he (John Climacus) also says elsewhere that vainglory has no birthdate but with pride is the mother of all vices. Humility he also says is one of the destroyers of its fruit and source.
 
01:16:05 Cindy Moran: It's  always a struggle for me . They are new age.
 
01:18:12 sam: Could we say that the all religions are equal idea is from a vainglorious attempt to please everyone and avoid real arguments about ascetical struggle?
 
01:20:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:10 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing
 
01:21:20 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father
 
01:21:27 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:21:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:21:29 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
 
01:21:34 Art iPhone: Thank you Father!
 
01:21:36 Arthur Danzi: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part VI

Where are we in the spiritual battle? Do we understand the virtues that are generally most necessary in the pursuit of virtue? So often in our day, we approach the spiritual life in a piecemeal fashion, gleaning from the writing of saints things that speak to our own particular sensibilities. But are any of these things going to help us address the dominant passions that we struggle with? 
We cannot be lazy in the labors of the spiritual life. We are blessed to be able to sit at the feet of the great elders and those who speak from experience. And yet, as with so many things in our day, we would have things come in our own time and in the way that we desire. Christianity overturns our perception of reality. What it means to love, what is truth, all comes into view only through the person of Christ. The shape of the Christian life is cruciform – always involving a dying to self and sin, and rising to new life in Christ. We must cast off the old man in order to put on the mind of Christ. Lacking discernment we may find ourselves being guided by the demons and settling into mediocrity or the embrace of selfishness and sin that merely is an aping of virtue.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:14 David Swiderski: Father do you know any good books on vigils?
00:15:56 Sharon Fisher: Would it be instructions for a home vigil service?
 
00:17:50 Anthony: For the bibliography, cookbooks are important such as
"From a Monastery Kitchen" by Bro. Victor-Antoine d'Avila-Latourrette.
 
00:19:52 Eric Ewanco: With Great Lent on our heels, do you have suggestions for overcoming gluttony and sustaining our fasts?
 
00:29:26 Andrew Adams: How does one practice the life of obedience as a layperson?
 
00:30:23 Suzanne: Isaac the Syrian is great on not putting the cart of contemplation before the horse of purification.
 
00:32:54 Maureen Cunningham: The  Monks on Mt Athose are very healthy a Doctor did a study.
 
00:35:24 Suzanne: Greek food ain't no penace for me! 😄
 
00:35:38 Vanessa: Reacted to "Greek food ain't no ..." with 😂
 
00:39:16 Anthony: Our hypochondria is driven by our societal messaging; our avarice is driven by our capitalist presuppositions wealth, usury, over-emphasis on private property.
 
00:42:54 Maureen Cunningham: I was told that Christ suffers in the broken .
 
00:43:30 Anthony: And it's hard to go against presuppositions because it feels like you're doing something wrong.
 
00:47:02 Suzanne: I quit a part time job because of the filthy language and sick behavior of my fellow employees. I did it to protect my soul.
 
00:54:04 Jeff O.: I’m reminded of a quote from a Benedictine book - “Personal Prayer” - “Our hope is at its greatest when we have absolutely no other means to provide for ourselves than to beg God for help.” When our hope is rooted deeply in our full understanding of our poverty it’s at its strongest/fullest
 
00:54:20 David Swiderski: I have found hardship to be helpful in gaining detachment from many things and faults. A saint used to say-gold is purifiied in the crucible of life.
 
00:54:21 Lee Graham: What does “recklessly despised their torture”?
 
00:55:27 Eric Ewanco: My translation @Lee Graham has "It was this marvelous grace that enabled the souls of the martyrs to rise superior to their torments."
 
00:56:29 Vanessa: St. Teresa of Calcutta always said we have to see Christ himself in the poor, broken, and suffering.  Re-aligns our focus to see the humanity in them.
 
01:07:40 sprou: is that the language of silence?
 
01:09:26 Eric Ewanco: Is ignoring the demons an option open to
everyone, or does this indicate that one is in a better spiritual position so to speak if one can do this?
 
01:11:19 Adam Paige: One of the tools of good works in the rule of Saint Benedict is “To dash at once against Christ the evil thoughts which rise in one’s heart.”
 
01:11:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:30 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethey!
 
01:11:42 Suzanne: God bless you all!
 
01:11:46 Lorraine Green: God bless, thank you
 
01:12:19 Barbara: Blessed Great Fast!!
 
01:12:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:23 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:12:24 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:12:36 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part V

Extraordinary and beautiful! We are currently reading Step 26 from The Ladder on discernment. As St. John begins to unpack things for us, that is, what discernment allows us to perceive about our intentions, our dispositions, how virtue and vice often get mixed together, why prayers sometimes go unanswered, and why demons often will cease their attack for a period of time - - St John also shows us the beauty and the mystery of the human person in relationship to God and as created by God. 
God‘s loving care for us, when seen with the clarity of the fathers’ wisdom and experience is enough to make one weep for joy. And this joy fosters a desire for God that, if inflamed, can not only purify us of the passions but transform us in such a fashion that we are drawn into the life of the very Holy Trinity. May God grant us this desire!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:49 Carol Roper: St. Anne's?
 
00:31:05 Cindy Moran: I remember a few times the night before a huge exam I slept w the school book under my pillow LOL
 
00:43:18 maureencunningham: What is the time frame , if one thinks of this as a long journey or one could be discourage
 
00:48:24 Kate : There are some spiritual writings that take the form of a colloquy…Fr. Gaston Courtois, for example.  How does this fit with the dark knowing of faith, that you mentioned?  The writers seem to have such a tangible intimacy with Our Lord.
 
00:56:29 Susanna Joy: When the Lord Speaks to Your Heart: Daily Devotions (English and French Edition) https://a.co/d/4ZRzjVi
 
00:56:46 Vanessa: Replying to "When the Lord Speaks..."
 
Thank you:)
 
00:57:02 Susanna Joy: Divine Intimacy https://a.co/d/2WqoJ5e
 
00:57:43 Susanna Joy: The links are Amazon links to the books mentioned
 
01:00:46 Cindy Moran: Are the other 4 kinds of dispassion in this chapter?
 
01:01:18 Jacqulyn: An excerpt from Pauline Books... https://paulinestore.com/media/productattach/1/7/172412-compressed.pdf
 
01:02:05 Susanna Joy: Reacted to An excerpt from Paul... with "👍"
 
01:04:51 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "An excerpt from Paul..." with 🥰
 
01:06:09 Rachel: yes
 
01:09:24 Michael Hinckley: Leave Christ for Christ... is the Filippo Neri?
 
01:09:35 Michael Hinckley: that ...
 
01:10:04 Adam Paige: Reacted to "that ..." with 👍
 
01:11:58 Rachel: Our Lord was did not have passions
 
01:14:18 David Swiderski: I have been reviewing some courses for work on Emotional Intelligence and it is interesting some of the information on nueroplastisity. I keep thinking how this research could learn so much from the desert fathers. In nueroplasticity they often talk about the trigger leading to emotion leading to and action and reptitivity creating behavior.
 
01:14:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I have been reviewin..." with ❤️
 
01:20:22 Suzanne: Thank you!
 
01:21:57 Art: Reacted to "I have been reviewin..." with 👍
 
01:22:37 Suzanne: To Rachel, passions in the Roman Church are not disordered in themselves, but part of human nature. Our Lord had no disorder in His Body and Soul. But He had human nature.
 
01:23:06 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you Father
 
01:23:24 maureencunningham: Thank You Father Dave , My husband said thank you too.
 
01:23:44 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:45 Louise: Thanks, Fr.  Abernethy!
 
01:23:47 Cindy Moran: Excellent session... thank you Father
 
01:23:52 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:23:53 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:01 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 
01:24:08 Rachel: LOL thank you
 
01:24:09 Kevin Burke: Thanks you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part IV

When reading The Ladder of Divine Ascent, we begin to see that discernment is quite different from what we imagine. It is not simply the use of our reason and judgment to look at the realities around us, to dissect them, and so understand them. Discernment, as described by the fathers, is rooted in the virtue of humility. It is only when we live in He who is Truth that we come to understand the truth about ourselves, the world, and the kingdom. 
St. John in particular gives us a multiple examples of how discernment reveals to us the specific qualities of vices, how they manifest themselves and how they are to be remedied. It is curious that we often use our intellectual abilities to avoid reality or to create a certain perception of reality in our minds. It is only humility that allows us to be vulnerable; to expose the deepest part of ourselves to the light of truth. It is this vulnerability and our trust in God and his love that allows us not only to see the truth but to experience the light of it as a healing balm.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:17 Sr. Simeon: I hate camera!
 
00:07:35 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I hate camera!" with 😂
 
00:08:23 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I hate camera!" with 📷
 
00:15:31 Adam Paige: Paragraph 43 - How should one admonish a brother given to talkativeness ?
 
00:21:25 Barbara: Gabriel Bunge?
 
00:21:32 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Gabriel Bunge?" with 👍
 
00:24:36 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Gabriel Bunge?" with 👍
 
00:24:47 Adam Paige: Gabriel Bunge?
Yup ! https://a.co/d/8t9PLU5
 
00:26:48 Barbara: This translations says "malice" in place of guile.
 
00:32:55 Anthony: I believe this humility is a reason the Sunday after publican and Pharisee is fast free....so as not to be proud in fasting.
 
00:43:46 Suzanne: My dilemma has to do with fiducia supplicans.
 
00:48:53 Suzanne: Much to consider. Thank you!
 
00:51:26 Barbara: Replying to "I believe this humil..."
 
Actually, in the Eastern Christian tradition, the week after the Gospel of the Publican and Pharisee is a week without fasting so we cannot be proud about our fasting.
 
00:52:02 Louise: In a psychology experiment, participants had to do nothing for 15 minutes. However, they could prick themselves to create pain if they wanted. One-third of women pricked themselves versus two-thirds of men. These people preferred physical pain to the pain induced by silence.
 
00:59:58 Celine Fournier: How does one take on an affliction.
 
01:00:34 Anthony: Perhaps we attribute afflictions to sin as a way of justifying why we will never have afflictions....I'm not a sinner, etc.
 
01:00:57 Celine Fournier: Yes
 
01:04:43 Adam Paige: Replying to "In a psychology expe..."
 
In a psychology experiment, participants had to do nothing for 15 minutes. However, they could prick themselves to create pain if they wanted. One-third of women pricked themselves versus two-thirds of men. These people preferred physical pain to the pain induced by silence.
https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf
 
01:05:56 Louise: When I gave courses to professionals across the US, I told participants that there are two main taboos in psychotherapy: love and suffering. Participants remained silent as though they knew that they DO avoid experiencing love or suffering while providing psychotherapy. Amazing and sad!
 
01:08:09 Kate : There’s a growing area of health and medicine that focuses on longevity and slowing the aging process.  While this may seem good on the surface, I wonder if this is not good for the soul.
 
01:11:53 Suzanne: Thank you!
 
01:12:14 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you
 
01:12:19 Sharon Fisher: Thank you all!
 
01:12:24 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:25 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
 
01:12:25 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:31 Jeff O.: Amen! Thank you!
 
01:12:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part III

Sometimes we are unaware of the treasure that we possess in and through the gift of faith; and also in the living witness and writing of the Saints. As St. John speaks of discernment this treasure is magnified for us and we begin to see how precious their teachings are and the life that God has called us to embrace. Our ability to see the preciousness of these gifts allows us to enter into the life with heartfelt perception. We cannot live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. Our minds and our hearts must belong to God and we must seek Him above all things.
In great detail, St. John begins to speak to us about the gift of discernment. It is especially important and valuable for  those who have the care of souls. To be a skilled physician one must have the experience necessary to apply the appropriate medicine and that which will be healing. It is also for this reason that monastic life has been so important for the life of the church. “Angels are a light for monks, and the monastic life is a light for all men.”  They show us how important it is to learn divine truth by toil and sweat. We must give our hearts over to the ascetic life and not squander the treasure. 
How quickly one begins to see that we would be wandering blindly without the guidance of the spiritual fathers. Let show our gratitude by our imitation of their zeal.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 194 number 23
 
00:33:20 David Swiderski: The devil speaks with a scratching, loud and gnarling voice and calls you by your sin. God calls you by name and his voice like a whisper on the wind. Only with peace and quite can we hear the whisper. - Not who wrote this but heard this from a priest in Spain on a retreat in the Pyrennes.
 
00:43:43 Sharon Fisher: Fr, please repeat the title of the second book you ref’d? I have the Eastern Monasticism and Future of the Church, but couldn’t write fast enough to get the next one. Thank you!
 
00:44:30 Anthony: That prejudice for the active life goes back to the "reformation" - I think as a way to justify the reformation.   It saw a revival in "josephism" of the 1700s and 1800s
 
01:05:38 David Swiderski: Where would resentment be placed I have seen despondency and also pride in being a victim.
 
01:06:58 Sharon Fisher: Just fyi to participants: The level of detail we get w/ Fr. David in discussions about the Fathers’ writings is not found in very many places. I’ll put a plug in for a guided book study on You Tube: St Silouan the Athonite Guided Book Study with Isaac Lampart, written by Archimandrite Sophrony.  The videos are hosted by Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church Lancaster, PA. It’s very good; but it’s hard to find the actual book. It took me a few months of monitoring used book sites to get a copy.
 
01:07:01 mhinckley: that;s virtue signaling, no. Just the other side of the vaingflory coin, no?
 
01:08:04 mhinckley: despondency and also pride in being a victim.
01:10:16 Sean: Replying to "Just fyi to particip..."
 
I really long for this sort of content now but it's non existent AFIK😢
 
01:12:40 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You many Blessing
 
01:12:44 Jeff O.: thank you!
 
01:13:16 Lorraine Green: Thank you, wonderful retreat!
 
01:13:23 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:27 Rachel: Thank you.
 
01:13:27 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:29 Louise: Ha ve good retreat, Fr. !
 
01:13:33 David Swiderski: Thank you father! Have a great retreat!
 
01:13:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...we'll be praying for you
 
01:13:35 Art: Thank you safe travels
 
01:13:38 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!! Thank you!
 
01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:41 sue and mark: yjank you God bless good retreat
 
01:13:42 Kevin Burke: Thanks
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part II

A glimmer of light begins to shine through the writing of St. John in regards to the perfection of virtue. John starts by putting before us list of those things that we should focus upon as beginners in the spiritual life or those who have reached an intermediate level. He also puts before us the resolution of those who are advanced; that is, the virtues that one possesses at this level and that they must protect. John is trying to paint with broad strokes the image of life in Christ. As one begins to share in that reality more deeply Christ image begins to manifest itself and we become imitators of Him.
As John unpacks for us the nature of discernment he shows us the things that it allows us to perceive. One of the valuable teachings he offers us is our responsiveness to the grace of God in times of illness. In our infirmity the demons will seek to afflict us on spiritual level.  Yet John also shows us that our minds and hearts can be purified at such times and that Christ can cleanse “clay by clay”. In the severity of our illness we can be delivered from certain passions.
These last steps of the Ladder of Divine Ascent must be read closely and slowly. It is solid food upon which we are being fed and a deep wisdom that is being set before us. Glory to God!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:41 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192 para 17
 
00:09:03 Rachel: :(
 
00:26:12 Anthony Rago: Sounds familiar
 
00:32:19 Sam: Need for fasting particularly during the many periods of discernment has helped many saints and Christians not only tame their passions but clear their minds from any attachments and thus take the path God wants of them. Could it be due to the humble stripping of self from earthly things and abandonment to God's grace, wisdom and mercy? Yes
 
00:38:12 Michael Hinckley: didn't Augustine say "you pray the most when you say the least and pray the least when you say the most."
 
00:43:13 Rory: Let, God's grace shine upon my silent faith within my temple of the Holy Spirit revealing your  Divine Providence
 
00:43:31 Vanessa: Reacted to "Let, God's grace shi..." with ❤️
 
00:57:35 Maureen Cunningham: Sound like addiction the first part
 
00:57:59 Anthony Rago: I think it's important for a weakened person to discern what is his weakness versus what is actually a sin or wrong.  The devil wears disguises and blames you for it.
 
01:09:08 Sean: I assume clay is man, but what is the clay that cleanses him?
 
01:11:49 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: A personal "testimony": a half dozen years ago, I was too sick to get out of bed for several weeks. The consolations and spiritual awareness at this time was so profound for me that I thought I was arriving at a  level of illumination that I would never leave. A couple of weeks after recovery, however, I found myself struggling with the same sin. I had not advanced as I thought. But I'm grateful for the consolation.
 
01:14:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Is it because illness brings us closer to death that we may experience a greater closeness to the eternal?
 
01:15:45 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:16:09 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Reacted to "Is it because illnes..." with ❤️
 
01:16:30 sue and mark: thank you.
 
01:16:39 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:40 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:16:41 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:16:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 
01:16:44 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:16:47 kevin: Thanks
 
01:16:48 Louise: Thanks, Father!
 
01:16:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:56 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Feast
 
01:17:02 Kevin Burke: Thanks you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVI: On Discernment, Part I

The fruit of humility is the emergence of discernment. For beginners, it is a true knowledge of themselves. For intermediate souls, it is a spiritual sense that distinguishes what is truly good from what is of nature or opposed to it. For the perfect it is knowledge that one comes by through divine illumination. God illuminates the darkness within by his grace. 
St. John begins to define for us the nature of this gift. However, what follows is quite different from how we in modern times think of discernment. So often it does not rise above private judgment or the natural virtue of distinguishing between the nature of things in accord with our intellect. Yet, as mentioned, discernment is a divine gift for which one prepares to receive through the grace of God and the ascetic life. 
We must seek to remove every impediment to our having a well formed conscience. Furthermore, we must avoid the traps that the evil one sets for us to draw us back in darkness. We must continue toiling in this fashion until the very fire of God enters the sanctuary of the human heart and renders our proclivity for sin powerless and consumes every fever of lust and movement of passion within us. Knowing that the demons seek to extinguish this light, we must constantly press on in the struggle. We must not believe ourselves incapable of engaging in the spiritual battle but always trust in the action of God‘s grace. 
Once St. John defined discernment for us, he begins to lay out the path of education in the spiritual life that is needed. He warns us not to stop with the beginner’s lessons but rather to press on and strive to advance in our understanding. What we must come to value above all things is the science of sciences and the art of arts – that is the wisdom of the fathers. In comparison to our worldly formation, how deeply do we penetrate the treasure of their teachings?
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:59 FrDavid Abernethy: Step 26 page 190
 
00:09:18 FrDavid Abernethy: On discernment of thoughts, passions and virtues
 
00:14:54 Sean: Isaac's awesome.
 
00:15:02 Art: Isaac the Syrian or Life of Repentance and Purity
 
00:15:32 Vanessa: Replying to "Isaac's awesome."
 
Agreed!
 
00:16:19 Sean: Replying to "Isaac's awesome."
 
I'm reading it a second time right now, slowly and listening to the old podcast.
 
00:25:21 Sean: #4. Why would one fall into disbelief upon seeing the supernatural? I would think it would lead one to believe in something more than oneself.
 
00:25:46 Vanessa: Reacted to "I'm reading it a sec..." with 👍
 
00:44:59 Sean: It's interesting that he links soul and mind in #11, which he also does in #8. These two are usually seen as separate or at least distinct, with the soul being pure. It's like the mind reflects the soul and the soul can go toward either good or bad.
 
01:00:22 Sean: pleasures = mud in the story, I would think.
 
01:18:43 Greg Chura: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:53 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:54 Jeff O.: thank you!
 
01:20:26 Jeff O.: Palamas!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXV: On Humility, Part V

Tonight we concluded our reading of step 25 on humility. I have no other way to describe my experience of reading this step other than the fact that it makes something within the heart leap for joy. For over the past months, what we have been shown is that humility is not simply a virtue that one strives to attain but rather a kind of truthful living that acknowledges God as the source of all. 
Beyond that, however, we are shown that humility is part of the very essence of God that has been revealed to us through the incarnation.  God shows himself as Holy Humility.  In loving us, God comes down to us and takes our life, our identity, our burden upon himself. The sense of lack and incompleteness at the very heart of our lives is filled by the God who comes to us and gives himself to us. 
Humility is so often presented to us as a kind of self hatred; whereas, in reality, it allows us to see not simply our weakness and our sin but the love of God with perfect clarity. Above all, St. John tells, us we should strive for humility. It is the narrow way. One must acknowledge one’s smallness in order to receive and participate in the greatness of the love of the one who created us. What better means do we have to do so than the Feast of the Nativity - unto us and child is born!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:56:01 Sharon Fisher: Backing up a bit — the fasts can be harmful, physically. I’ve experienced and know of others who had negative physical effects trying to do the prescribed thing. Yet, I haven’t had a priest directly suggest that it can be modified as necessary — but they say it’s not to be taken legalistically.
 
01:04:12 Ambrose Little, OP: Transfers liquid from one container to another
 
01:04:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Sucks you up into heaven. 🙂
 
01:04:40 Art: carries a liquid from a higher level up and over a barrier and then down to a lower level
 
01:04:49 Mitch: “Waterspout” in the translation in front of me
 
01:04:52 Sean: I thought of it as like a tornado sucking one up to heavan
 
01:10:14 Victor: Reacted to "I thought of it as l…" with 👍
 
01:11:06 Victor: Thanks, Father. Merry Christmas to all! 🎄💐
 
01:11:11 Daniel Allen: What’s interesting to me is that it seems all other virtues do not by nature exclude pride, a type of natural perfection, only humility excludes pride and why it’s the only virtue that cannot be imitated by the demons as John said. But the difference is that all other virtues can be beautifully acquired, while humility is only received by acknowledgment of our own lack. Our own lack of other virtues even. Does that make sense? If so, while humility may be the God like virtue it is also terrifying.
 
01:11:25 Brian L: Reacted to I thought of it as l... with "👍"
 
01:11:46 Jeff O.: Reacted to "What’s interesting t..." with 👍
 
01:11:48 Vanessa: Reacted to "What’s interesting t..." with 👍
 
01:15:42 Art: Merry Christmas everyone!!
 
01:15:43 Lorraine Green: Merry Christmas!  Thank you Father
 
01:15:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Happy Christmas everyone🙂
 
01:15:48 Ambrose Little, OP: 🎄
 
01:15:48 mflory: Thank you, Father! Merry Christmas!
 
01:15:48 Jeff O.: Merry Christmas! Thank you
 
01:15:49 TFredman: Thank you, Merry Christmas everyone!
 
01:15:51 Deiren: Merry Christmas father and everyone!
 
01:15:58 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Christmas!
 
01:16:01 Mitch: Merry Christmas!! Thankyou very much
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part II

The stories of the humility of the Saints and monks described in The Evergetinos can be hard to stomach. But if we consume them with the spirit of faith and the desire for God, they will nourish us to everlasting life. 
All of them point us to Christ himself - the prototype and standard of all virtue. We are ever so fortunate. It is amazing when you slow down and hear the story, read out loud how impactful it can be. When we can let go of our own critical spirit, when we can suspend judgment and simply allow ourselves to listen with faith then often we come to understand something astounding. 
As is so often the case in The Evergetinos, we see that embodying the virtue of Christ, living the gospel concretely, has the capacity to work miracles, to raise the dead, and to give enliven faith within the hearts of others. May the gift of these stories take root in our hearts and produce fruit that is pleasing to God!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:30 FrDavid Abernethy: page 23 letter B
 
00:27:30 sharonfisher: Was he relieved of the obligation to tithe or was his tired refused? I don’t think I understand.
 
00:27:51 sharonfisher: *Or was his tithe refused
 
00:36:25 Louise: Could we say that, to be made humble, Peter was made to renounce Jesus Christ 3 times as predicted by Our Lord? The proud Peter humiliated himself tremendously by doing so.
 
00:37:53 Steve Yu: Reacted to "Could we say that, t…" with 👍
 
00:52:35 Sean: Interesting how the one knew about the scheme by 'spiritual insight'. Isaac the Syrian calls that teoria or basically the soul's knowing, in other words he got this info not by hearing or the body's senses.
 
01:04:31 Steve Yu: It seems so ironic to me that humiliation can bring us closer to God, and yet (speaking for myself), something that I try to avoid by instinct. It’s as if some of my instincts are programmed against growing closer to Him.
 
01:05:15 Sheila Applegate: I love this story. The humility to say, "yes, I am a corrupt, sinful person" but, "no, I do not reject God." Even in that horrid weakness of soul.
 
01:11:30 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father, good night
 
01:11:43 mflory: Wonderful! Thank you, Father!
 
01:11:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXV: On Humility, Part IV

It is impossible to capture in words the joy that sweeps over the heart when one comes to understand what St. John Climacus is revealing to us about the nature of humility. In this step, he strips away all of our limited, false, or distorted perceptions of humility and reveals it for what it is: a gift of God‘s own self. 
After reading Step 25 our understanding of humility is forever changed. We are shown that God reveals the nature of humility by revealing himself to us in his Son. “Humility is Christ’s spiritual doctrine,” St. John tells us.  “It is introduced into the inner chamber of the soul by those who are counted worthy of it. It cannot be defined by perceptible words.”  Rather, by the grace of God, the heart is purified of the passions and all impediments are removed to our receiving God’s gifts. One of the greatest of those gifts is humility. 
This virtue is a participation in the life of God. Whatever we might lose of honor or dignity in the world is nothing in comparison to the joy that Christ offers us through this virtue.  “He who humbles himself will be exalted”.  We may feel that we are falling into an abyss and losing our identity as we let go of our attachment to the things of this world. However, what we are falling into is actually the abyss of God‘s love. We are letting go of the false self in order that we might be immersed in He who is meaning, He who is truth, He who is reality! 
What joy should be ours, St. John tells us: “By this shall all men know that we are God’s disciples, not because the devils are subject to us, but because our names are written in the Heaven of Humility.”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:00 FrDavid Abernethy: page 185 number 32
 
00:12:50 Anthony Rago: Fr Christopher Zugger 2 Vol History of Byzantine Catholic Church published by Byzantine Seminary Press
 
00:34:18 Anthony Rago: This is where nietzche's emphasis of will is important for us
 
00:35:31 Louise: I resonate with this definition of humility - we owe everything to God. I resonate see less to humility as defined in the Evergetinos as a self-deprecation. The former focuses about God, while the latter focuses on self.
 
00:40:39 Daniel Allen: How does this conversation about self a basement and not hatred factor in with John talking about the prison
earlier?
 
00:50:50 Anthony Rago: Oh, so to grasp at humility - to be avaricious for it - is masochism?  For all good things are actually gifts,  not seized upon like a miser?
 
00:53:37 Jacqulyn: Amen!
 
00:57:22 Suzanne: According to this understanding, humility, like contemplation, requires that we wait for God. “Expect the Lord, do manfully, let thy heart take courage, and wait thou for the Lord.”
 
01:00:09 Sean: Are views, the like button and thumbs up the modern methods of mass vainglory?
 
01:03:27 mflory: I think the story about Symeon is from the Alphabetical Sayings of the Desert Fathers. In the translation that I have, he is called Simon.
 
01:03:44 Suzanne: Replying to "Are views, the like ..."
 
Yes!
 
01:03:58 Cindy Moran: I studied 3 yrs with Fr Van Kaam &  Dr susan Muto
 
01:05:40 Nypaver Clan: Is it open to the public now?
 
01:06:51 Cindy Moran: This is so exciting!!
 
01:07:04 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I think the story ab..." with 👍
 
01:13:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:30 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
 
01:13:31 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you Father
 
01:13:31 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
 
01:13:38 Suzanne: Thank you
 
01:13:54 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
 
01:14:03 Victor Haburchak: Thanks
 
01:14:07 Cindy Moran: Great session!! Thank you Father!
 
01:14:11 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks!
 
01:14:13 mflory: Thank you, Father
 
01:14:15 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXV: On Humility, Part III

The language that St. John Climacus uses to describe humility and its qualities is striking. In fact, in some ways it becomes unsettling. Unsettling - - because we often approach humility in an abstract fashion; as thinking little of ourselves, acknowledging our poverty and our sin. 
What we discover in John’s writing is that humility is of the very essence of God and how God has revealed himself to us. To grow in this virtue is to find ourselves entering into the abyss of God‘s love. As we fall in our own estimation, we are in reality falling into the love and mercy of God. St. John describes humility as the “door to the kingdom”. It is the same way that Christ describes himself. “I am the door.“ Christ is humility and to be conformed to him, to enter into a union of love with him, is to pass into the very pasture of paradise. 
Thus, to enter into the monastic life or the Christian life through any other door is to make ourselves thieves and robbers of our own life. In other words, it is to seek to seize for ourselves what only comes to us as a gift from God. While we were still enemies of God, he took our flesh and its burden upon himself, he humbled himself and became obedient in order that we might share in the fullness of his life. As those so redeemed, what other path could we dare travel?
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 182
 
00:11:55 Suzanne: Amore, Amore!!!
 
00:28:12 Anthony Rago: Didn't St Paul say he didn't even judge himself?
 
00:35:38 Suzanne: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him.
 
00:36:17 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: The idea of humility of heart will be on the lips, reminds me that it seems to me when I say she or he or you "made me" angry, etc., it's not so much about the other but God shining the light on where He wants to work with me on humility or other aspects of theosis. No one made me but merely revealed where I need God's touch of humility or healing.
 
00:37:38 Jeff O.: Reacted to "The idea of humility..." with 👍
 
00:38:05 Suzanne: Reacted to "The idea of humility..." with ❤️
 
00:44:53 Suzanne: My take home from what I’ve studied with you so far, is that humility is a great grace, and a participation of God, and not something we can attain solely by our own effort. We do best to work to dispose ourselves to receive it.
 
00:47:03 Cindy Moran: How would St John Climacus advise us to ask for a raise?...Or just don't do it.
 
00:47:23 Rebecca Thérèse: The chasm between the holiness of God and fallen humanity is so great, it's impossible not to be humble once someone has perceived it
 
00:49:20 Suzanne: Reacted to "How would St John Cl..." with 😂
 
00:49:53 Cindy Moran: Yes I'm serious
 
00:49:55 Suzanne: Reacted to "The chasm between th..." with 👍
 
00:58:16 Anthony Rago: I believe a post Communion prayer by St Basil the Great, in the Teal Ruthenian Book, asks God that the Holy Body and Blood be for the healing of our feelings or emotions.
 
01:03:31 Sean: from St.Basil's post communion Prayer: O Lord who love us all, you died and rose for our sake; and you have given us these awesome and life-creating mysteries for the benefit and sanctification of our souls and bodies. Grant that they may bring about the healing of my soul and body; the defeat of every enemy; the enlightenment of the eyes of my heart; the calming of my thoughts and emotions; a faith that cannot be confounded; a love that does not pretend; a wisdom that overflows; the full observance of your commandments; the increase of your divine grace; and citizenship in your kingdom. Being preserved in your holiness by them, I will remember your love at all times.
 
01:05:09 Anthony Rago: Reacted to from St.Basil's post... with "❤️"
 
01:05:20 Sean: yes
 
01:05:33 Daniel Allen: I get seeing the good in others and not seeking to lift oneself up in comparison to others, but if we examine ourselves constantly or even too often, how do we avoid become neurotic? How do we examine ourselves constantly and remain gentle tand patient to ourselves?
 
01:06:03 Suzanne: I wonder if a sign of growing humility is the subsiding of hair trigger emotional reactions to things people say.
 
01:13:12 Ambrose Little, OP: From Unseen Warfare: ‘If a man does not rely on himself but puts his trust in God, when he falls he is not greatly surprised and is not overcome with excessive grief, for he knows that it is the result of his own impotence, and, above all, of the weakness of his trust in God. So his downfall increases his distrust of himself and makes him try all the harder to increase and deepen his humble trust in God.’
 
Seems like part of not getting down on ourselves and anxious/neurotic is accepting that we are weak and allowing God to fill our weakness with His power.
 
01:14:34 Suzanne: Reacted to "From Unseen Warfare:..." with ❤️
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: My apologies if my question seemed flippant about asking for a raise. I suppose that everyone knows now that I've never been able to do it in 60 years of my profession.
 
01:15:58 Jeff O.: Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain too
 
01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father
 
01:18:09 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:18:16 Suzanne: Thank you, Father, for your help!
 
01:18:56 Cindy Moran: Good night to all.
 
01:18:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:00 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:19:06 mflory: Beautiful! Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXV: On Humility, Part II

It is a curious thing to be humbled by hearing a saint speak about humility. Yet, this is what happens. In and of itself, it reveals to us how far the human heart can be from grasping not only the nature of the virtue but what God has revealed to us in his only begotten Son. 
The Incarnation manifests to us this virtue in its full glory. The word of God, through whom all things have been created, becomes an infant, (infans), that is, “wordless one”. God draws back the veil in order that we might see and comprehend for ourselves the depth of His love and also the life and virtue that we are to embrace as those made in his image and likeness. To embrace Holy Humility, the very life of God, means to let go of our attachment to the things of this world or good deeds accomplished by our own hands. We begin to comprehend with greater clarity and firmness that all is Grace. 
To acknowledge this is to die to self and sin; it is, as John describes it, “reposing securely in the casket of modesty”. The humble heart becomes impervious and unmovable to the demons. As a quality of the Divine, it is not something that we can gauge in its perfection. John, however, works to help us understand its distinguishing characteristics.  One is struck by the fact that the humility of beginners is as different and distinct from the humility of the perfect as yeast and flour are from bread.  Purified by the fire of God‘s love it is freed from all of pride. This is something only God can reveal to us. 
God reveals himself to us in and through the gift of faith. We cannot approach him or the truth that he reveals with a consumerists mentality or seek to dissect these realities as we do with so many things in this world.  It is His light that reveals the depths of the human heart and it is His Spirit of Truth that draws us in the very depths of God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 181 number 4
 
00:09:25 David Swiderski: Have you heard about the Holy Resurrection Monestary in Wisconsin. They offer retreats but I just was wondering if they are worthwhile?
 
00:10:17 Jake: I was there for 3 days, it was a great retreat
 
00:14:07 Cindy Moran: Antiochian village?
 
00:36:57 Sharon Fisher: How does one try to take this step if a spouse or close friend doesn’t welcome the transformation we intend to make? You can’t just cut them off; you can be sincere in faith and not burden them with it until they see the (positive) change?
 
00:37:40 Carol: this discussion reminds me of Isadora from Evergetinos
 
00:38:32 Carol: and the indignities she embraced
 
00:38:58 Daniel Allen: It’s startling that the beginning is acceptance of indignity, I tend to see that as the end - or the perfected state. Yet, John says it is the first property. And that’s something.
 
00:39:52 Suzanne: Why is it that as long as we are alone with God at home, we maintain peace of soul and continuous prayer, but as soon as we get into conversations with others, our restraint goes out the window? For example, I got sucked into a discussion about politics earlier today, and I was unable to detect and prevent anger from arising inside me - ultimately my words took on an angry tone, and I said words I now regret. It’s like all I accomplished this morning with God was stolen from me. Basically, when tested, I fail.
 
00:40:38 Jeff O.: Reacted to "It’s startling that ..." with 👍
 
00:43:14 Suzanne: Replying to "It’s startling that ..."
 
Interesting.
 
00:43:29 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that within humility there is recognizing that God loves me, in a breathless way. When I'm around someone who genuinely loves me, I tend to love myself more when I'm with them. Feeling loved and loving myself without condemnation. it seems, helps me accept my weakness and need for God. Humility, then, becomes a natural honesty that helps me put down my defenses of my ego and let God do whatever is necessary to make me like Him and united to Him. Then, denying myself and carrying the cross I recognize to be therapeutic and seems to be the most reasonable and honest thing to do.
 
00:44:54 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Same here. Just recently, too. And frequently, too . . .
 
00:45:23 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." 
 
 Suzanne, my studies ...
 
00:45:28 Daniel Allen: I haven’t read her diary but the diary of Elizabeth Liseur may be a good concrete example of what it looks like for one to be trying to live the faith while another one isn’t at all, and how to do that faithfully.
 
00:46:14 Suzanne: Reacted to "Same here. Just rece..." with ❤️
 
00:46:36 Suzanne: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️
 
00:46:51 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." 
 
 Suzanne I wouldn't t...
 
00:48:02 Suzanne: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Fall, and get back up. Never stop.
 
00:52:04 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Proverbs 24:16!
 
00:55:28 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️
 
00:55:37 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies …" with ❤️
 
00:57:57 Suzanne: Reacted to "Proverbs 24:16!" with ❤️
 
00:59:18 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "How does one try to ..."
 
Followup to the discussion: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36).
 
01:06:45 Sean: Stephen Hawking: "If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would know the mind of God." That always struck me as hubris.
 
01:07:15 Anthony Rago: Also in regard to not prying into mysteries, does this apply to the errors of heretics? And does it apply to the orthodox whose censures might have caused more harm than good (ex. The way we used anathema which had the effect of alienating whole peoples)?
 
01:09:51 Patrick Caruso: In step 25:7, he says the highest degree includes 'a constant desire to learn'. However in Step 24:29 he says 'If knowledge puffs up most people, simplicity and a lack of learning can perhaps in the same measure humble them.' Is he saying that the path of knowledge is to first learn to be simple through perhaps a lack of learning to bring about true knowledge via humility and only then will we be capable of a purified desire to learn?
 
01:12:53 Suzanne: I’ve been putting into practice lately, taking all my thoughts to God. It’s really powerful, and it’s leading me to actually speak with Him quietly and intimately about past sins. I sense that there is a deep pride that causes us to withdraw from His gaze, and refuse to reflect upon our sins in His holy sight. Yet He has shown me that He is ardently ready and willing to discuss my sin with me, and make me understand His Providence. This, I think, is going to lead to humility in my soul.
 
01:15:33 Anthony Rago: Reacted to I’ve been putting in... with "❤️"
 
01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Reacted to "I’ve been putting in..." with ❤️
 
01:17:06 Suzanne: I so appreciate your help!
 
01:17:59 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father excellent session
 
01:18:03 Sean: prayers and gratitude Father
 
01:18:04 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father, good night
 
01:18:05 mflory: Thank you!
 
01:18:06 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:18:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:28 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:18:29 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
 
01:18:31 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part IV and XXV: On Humility, Part I

Elder Porphyrios wrote “whoever wants to be a Christian must first become a poet”.  I mention this because the truth of it plays out in St. John’s writing tonight on humility. One indeed must become a poet - one who has the capacity to capture the deepest of mysteries with a few words. 
However, what we see in St. John’s writings is that even this capacity fails us when we begin to speak about “Holy Humility” - our call to participate in the very life and virtue of God;  “Learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart.”We must become docile; that is, teachable in the most radical fashion. There must be a willingness on our part to let go of all conceit, prudence, and cunning. What is being spoken of is not simply a natural virtue, but a participation in the divine. It is that which can only be understood through experience. 
Such a path will always be challenging because it means letting go of our perception of reality, even religious reality. As God draws us into greater intimacy with himself, we are called to walk along the dark and obscure path of faith. This faith is a kind of knowing, but it is dark and obscure because it is beyond the limitations of intellect, reason, and imagination. To experience God “as he is in himself” means to let go of the boundaries, the foot holds, and the crutches that we have used to move forward in our understanding. It can be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God: Fearful, precisely, because it means letting go of reality as we have known it. 
We can feel as though we are being brought to the edge of insanity and so St. John warns us that we must let go of prudence and its delusion. Prudence often masks a lack of courage. It is a human wisdom that tells us, warns us, not to go to extremes. In this sense, it is good. Yet, it can also be deadly to true faith. It can cripple us with fear and make us choose the path of safety, rather than entrusting ourselves wholly to God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:25 FrDavid Abernethy: Step 24 number 27 page 179
 
00:15:25 Suzanne: Moment of silence for that pie! Yum!!
 
00:15:32 Sean: home made cranberry is killer
 
00:15:44 Suzanne: Replying to "home made cranberry ..."
 
Just made mine!
 
00:31:20 Anthony Rago: The submission of Christians and Muslims who lost children recently in the Holy Land is a concrete example of carrying a cross.
 
00:32:13 Anthony Rago: They take it so graciously
 
00:40:34 Sharon Fisher: Could it be like being wishy-washy,  choosing no path?
 
00:41:02 Cindy Moran: My version reads "cleverness" instead of prudence
 
00:43:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: The reading on our calendar for today was to leave 99 to find one. That doesn't seem prudent
 
00:44:33 Carol: the widow with the 2 mites is imprudent too
 
00:57:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Over the years, I have at times imitated humility, but never acquired it. I depend on God to grant me humility as His gift and I hope asceticism and prayer helps me recognize and receive it.
 
01:00:48 Suzanne: Reacted to "Over the years, I ha..." with ❤️
 
01:01:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sounds like you're saying becoming humble is becoming like Christ. Part of theosis.
 
01:01:13 Santiago Bua: Before humillity is a decision is a prayer for. Greetings from Argentina
 
01:01:16 Louise: Humility baffles me. Maybe humility is something like ''I do not know.
Only God knows.'' In contrast, pride would be ''I know better than God.''
 
01:02:48 Sam: This also reminds me of the need for humility acceptance of spiritual direction as many have fallen along the path to asceticism where pride cones and destroys the child like humility needed through spiritual direction and discernment  of guidance or advice
 
01:04:57 Sean: I practise humility e.g. stepping aside on a narrow walkng path, allowing the other to pass easily or waiting patiently in line saying the Jesus praayer and avoiding the thoughts of 'I'm in a hurry, come on'. I don't know if that makes me humble or making just faking it til i make it.
 
01:05:03 Alexandra K: You recognize your own pride when you are not looking for humility and it comes to you right in your face.
 
01:06:59 Christian Corulli: Are there some points in the spiritual life where we need a spiritual director to grow in humility further?
 
01:08:09 Louise: I am concerned about the diabolic trap of euthanasia offered to people in Canada. Individuals choosing ''medical assistance in dying'' or MAIDS, as part of the ''human dignity to chose,'' are basically saying to God, ''I decide when I die, not You! I chose not to suffer.'' I am afraid that they can only end up in hell. What would the Desert Fathers say?
 
01:13:49 Anthony Rago: I enjoy a particular craft. To really know it, I have to stop reading, stop being distracted by other crafts, and just work, interacting with the metal and tools. In experiencing this vocation it's an analogy to discovering God. You just have to quit the inaction, focus, and do it....and you grow without fixation on laws, on control, on growing.  You just do, and the beauty (& truth & goodness) comes.
 
01:16:53 Suzanne: Thank you, Father, and Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
01:17:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Reacted to "Thank you, Father, a..." with 🙏🏼
 
01:17:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:17:21 sue and mark: Thank you.  Happy Thanksgiving.
 
01:17:41 mflory: Thank you!
 
01:17:42 Art: Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
01:17:46 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit! Thank you!!
 
01:17:55 Cindy Moran: Happy Thanksgiving Father! Thank you for great session
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part III

Guile.  It is rarely a word that is used in our day; nor one which we use to examine our own minds and hearts. Yet, as St. John describes it, guile has an impact upon our vision of life, God, ourselves, and others. Our vision becomes wholly distorted and perverted. While guile is a kind of intelligence - it is sly and cunning. Understanding, then, is used to manipulate others and circumstances for one’s own benefit. This in turn creates an aversion to humility and repentance. The pretense of religion and religiosity begins to prevail in a person’s life. Reverence and piety becomes a sham.  One becomes diabolical, and they use what is good in order to commit evil. It creates within the human heart a love of sin and so makes an individual the companion of the devil. 
We are to live upright lives; that is, we are stand upright with our eyes fixed forward toward the life that God has made possible for us. How often we choose the path of beasts; our eyes directed downwards towards the things of this world and the satisfaction of our own appetites. The mind and the heart become sick and incapable of seeing the truth - so deeply have they sunk into the abyss of this unholy cunning.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Celine Fournier: Hello I am new to the zoom.
 
00:18:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 178 para 20
 
00:18:44 Walter Viola: First time attending. Been following via YouTube for a year.
 
00:29:39 David Swiderski: Wouldnt this be what we call today sociopaths? Often highly intelligent but are only able to see this benefits me now and this does not. There is no empathy or concept of a right and wrong. Working with excecutives in several pulbic companies I am convinced this is abnormally high in that group.
 
00:30:46 Louise: Guile seems to be the modus vivendi of psychopaths, or people I call satanic souls.
 
00:30:59 Kevin Burke: What is meant by “hindrance to resurrection?”
 
00:31:19 sue and mark: how would gaslighters come into play with this?
 
00:31:20 Anthony Rago: Yesterdays Gospel mentioned guile. Christ addresses Nathaniel as an Israelite in whom is no guile, is that to show he was outstanding in a crowd of people with guile? Or is it that he is an excellent specimen of a crowd of honest people? And what does that have to do with sitting under the fig tree?
 
00:32:38 Louise: If you meet one, go away, leave the scene ASAP.
 
00:36:02 Louise: Could we say that the ones are the bad seeds, the weeds?
 
00:36:49 Louise: ''he guile ones''
 
00:38:17 Carol: do you think guile can exist more subtly in the hearts of all of us
 
00:39:38 Maureen Cunningham: Guile is when you plan to hurt another soul.
 
00:44:01 Daniel Allen: Not to change texts but this makes me think of the wisdom of St Isaac, “above all things love silence”. I tend to regret my words more than biting my tongue
 
00:44:37 Anthony Rago: This is why Jansenism was so serious. Pure as angels; Proud as devils
 
00:46:47 Maureen Cunningham: I did see that movie
 
00:47:06 Cindy Moran: Love that movie
 
00:48:32 Louise: What is the name again?
 
00:48:38 Cindy Moran: Jennifer Jones
 
00:48:40 Rod Castillo: Jennifer Jones
 
00:48:52 Rod Castillo: Song of Bernadette
 
01:00:30 Louise: Father, we lost you.
 
01:00:36 Cindy Moran: Frozen
 
01:03:09 David Swiderski: A priest in Spain explained this well to me. All churches are filled with stainglass windows of the saints who let the light of God enter into our lives. By struggling we slowly clean our own windows and dark stains to let the light of God to enter into this world and our communities.
 
01:17:26 Maureen Cunningham: If we are always looking at what is bad in us ? In the same way can gaze at how far we have come closer to Him
 
01:20:59 Cindy Moran: Fun fact: Jennifer Jones was married to movie mogul studio film executive David O. Selznick [Gone With the Wind] who was born here in Pittsburgh
 
01:21:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much, Father
 
01:21:37 sue and mark: Thank you
 
01:21:40 Celine Fournier: Thank you
 
01:21:49 Louise: Thanks, Fr.
 
01:22:23 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:22:24 mflory: Thanks you very much, Father!
 
01:22:31 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:22:41 David Swiderski: May God bless you father! Thank you.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part II

To be simple, guileless, and meek are described by St. John as a habit of soul. Habits form deeply over the course of time and those that we form through negligence in our relationship with God are often very difficult to change. In fact, it would be better to say that they are changed only by the grace of God. 
What would our life look like if our speech was unpremeditated? What would our relationships look like if we were free from ulterior motives? To look upon others only with love and to live in the truth through humility is to reshape our experience and vision of reality. Suddenly we begin to see things (and more importantly others) as God sees them. We can look upon the other and be blind to their natural faults or defects as well as their sins. We return to a kind of holy innocence and purity of heart were we never lose sight of the beauty of God’s creation and most especially the beauty of the human person. To give oneself to God is to find within the capacity to give oneself to others, to love without measure, to serve without calculation. May God make it so!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 177 para 10
 
00:19:16 Victor Haburchak: Jesus was often angry with the Pharisees & scribes.
 
00:36:58 Kate : I find that my attempts at simplicity of life can become rather complex in trying to let go of things in my life.  I am flooded with distractions that “seem” necessary at the time but later I realize it was a temptation away from simplicity.  I find it hard to navigate towards simplicity.  The complexity of simplicity!
 
00:41:10 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I find that my attem…" with ❤️
 
00:43:48 Daniel Allen: That’s me I always want another book and read say 7 at a time. Then I read from St Isaac today that not every good book is beneficial for stillness (or simplicity). Even the good things, in this case a quest for knowledge and understanding, can actually be a distraction.
 
00:45:55 Kate : Thank you, Father!  You cut through the complexity for me.  Union with God.
 
00:46:07 Anthony Rago: Some of it you learn by experience
 
00:46:17 Jeff O.: Reacted to "That’s me I always w..." with 👍
 
00:46:34 Rory: Reacted to That’s me I always w... with "👍"
 
00:46:46 Rory: Reacted to Some of it you learn... with "👍"
 
00:47:34 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "That’s me I always w…" with 👍
 
00:59:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I've often been struck by this saying: It was said of Abba Macarius the Great that he became, according
to the writings, a god on earth, because in the way God protects the world, so Abba Macarius would hide the faults he saw as though he had not seen them, and the faults he heard about as though he had not heard of them.
Sayings of the Desert Fathers, Macari us the Egyptian 3 2 (PG 6 5 ,
273)
 
01:01:55 Daniel Allen: That’s strikingly beautiful
 
01:03:50 Victor Haburchak: Replying to "I've often been stru…"
Like the Seal of Confession
 
01:05:05 Victor Haburchak: My pastor often speaks about respecting boundaries
 
01:06:22 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I've often been stru..." with 💙
 
01:08:55 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I've often been stru…" with 💙
 
01:11:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:38 Victor Haburchak: Thanks!
 
01:11:44 Art: Thank you.
 
01:11:50 sue and mark: Thank you.
 
01:12:07 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:19 Maureen Cunningham: Blessings Praying  for all
 
01:12:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernathy!
 
01:12:28 Jeff O.: thank you!!
 
01:12:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:12:39 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part V and Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part I

“We are reading to fast!”  This is typically something that we would never say about our study groups. However, as we sit at the feet of St. John Climacus, we come to the realization that we could sit with a single saying for months on end and not fail to be nourished. 
We concluded our discussion of Step 23 and the difficulty with blasphemous thoughts. The evil one in his envy will seek to distract us with blasphemous thoughts that come like a flash of lightning before the mind. Our one response should be to lay this great burden upon the Lord, to entrust it to him, knowing that it comes not from our hearts but from the malice of the evil one. 
In Step 24 Saint John begins to discuss meekness, simplicity, and guilelessness. As Saint John begins to define it for us, we suddenly experience ourselves as moving too briskly. Meekness is an “unchangeable state of mind, a rock overlooking the sea of anger”. These thoughts alone are enough to alter our view of this great virtue. In the face of the chaos of living in a fallen world or the experience of the hatred and anger of others, meekness becomes a buttress that is unshakable and keeps us from being swept away by touchiness of mind or irritability of heart. Meekness creates the desire for simplicity; to create a place where the Lord will find rest within us. It allows us to maintain dominion over our heart by the simple act of mortifying the intellect and private judgment. In the weeks to come, may we linger along with these thoughts and come to desire this great virtue.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:01:31 Suzanne: Hello! Happy Feast of All Saints!!
 
00:01:39 FrDavid Abernethy: to you as well!
 
00:01:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47
 
00:03:02 Suzanne: Look! The West gets it! From Vespers for All Saints:
 
00:03:09 Suzanne: Choréa casta vírginum,
Et quos erémus íncolas
Transmísit astris, cǽlitum
Locáte nos in sédibus.
 
00:03:52 Suzanne: And the Antiphon from the Magnifcat:
 
00:03:58 Suzanne: Ángeli, * Archángeli, Throni et Dominatiónes, Principátus et Potestátes, Virtútes cælórum, Chérubim atque Séraphim, Patriárchæ et Prophétæ, sancti legis Doctóres, Apóstoli, omnes Christi Mártyres, sancti Confessóres, Vírgines Dómini, Anachorítæ, Sanctíque omnes, intercédite pro nobis.
 
00:04:23 Sean: I tried to find it, it's out of 'print', no luck
 
00:06:44 Rachel: ty
 
00:09:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47
 
00:14:59 Art: Hello TY and same to you!
 
00:25:05 Louise: In my culture of origin, in Quebec, Canada, the French-Canadians swear with the names of God and the Eucharist, even psychologists in supervision with me. I ask them to not do so, but they relapse after a while. I thus decided to offer, inwardly, my apologies to Christ when they swear. Can I do something else?
 
00:25:55 Louise: I would have to exclude them all.
 
00:28:38 David Swiderski: When I lived in Spain the same issue most swears blasphemous. I was a teacher so just joked wow you need a thesaurs and have a limited and very poor vocabulary. It seemed to work and get a laugh.
 
00:31:47 Suzanne: equanimity
 
00:33:05 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Learn of Me, for I am meek and
humble in heart. It seems, then, that depending on Christ and becoming like Christ transforms us into being humble. So, it seems like it's part of the process of theosis. Is this so?
 
00:33:37 sharonfisher: How can insecurity be transformed to meekness? I guess I’m asking how to display the strength I feel in Jesus Christ, but the body belies.
 
00:34:30 Anthony Rago: Something that helps me deal with anger -and bad thoughts - is that any bad thought against a man really reflects on the Lord,  the ne Adanm. And any bad thought against a woman really reflects on our Lady, the ideal of a woman. I don't like that so it helps keep the interior life in check, to dash the infants of evil thoughts against the rocks.
 
00:38:02 sharonfisher: Replying to "How can insecurity b..."
 
Thank you - I think my question was more self-centered (ie, not appropriate!)
 
00:38:38 David Swiderski: On my door to my room I have a quote which I see when I leave and when I go to bed- (In loving one another, God in us made flesh). I often find I fall short at night but seem more careful the next day.
 
00:40:08 sharonfisher: Reacted to "On my door to my roo..." with ❤️
 
00:40:58 Daniel Allen: This conversation about meekness makes me think of “the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent carry it away” which is very much not being a doormat. So it’s a matter of that violence being directed towards biting our own tongue (or what have you) and not against another.
 
00:45:09 Suzanne: Fr. Ripperger talks about demons putting negative perspectives on things that are pure illusions, and that get us angry.
 
00:46:38 Ashley Kaschl: To Suzanne’s point, it’s the cogitative power of the brain that Fr. R talks about, which makes associations, and is why asking
the Lord to protect our faculties is so important 😁
 
00:47:06 Suzanne: Amen Ashley!
 
00:49:31 sharonfisher: There, that is what I was trying to convey — I feel peace, but the passions and fears overtake. So how to slow or reduce the effect of the physical body that reacts. Apologies if I’m not clear.
 
00:51:28 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Meekness as an unmoveable rock, is strength, and much different than the connotation of meekness as self-effacement and highly flexible that I'm used to in our society. that's helpful
 
00:53:07 Louise: To help myself not engage in frustrations, angry reactions, etc. I am at times gently reminded by God (I believe) to say, ''May Thy will be done.'' If it comes from God, it is then OK by me.
 
00:53:52 sharonfisher: Reacted to "To help myself not e..." with ❤️
 
00:54:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: This strength makes more sense that Moses, the leader and prophet of Israel, could be called the meekest of men.
 
00:55:48 Suzanne: The actor who played Nectarios wonderfully portrayed the strain and violence - yet tempered with real interior peace and steadfastness - experienced in the practice of the virtue of meekness. Also the deep sadness that oppresses the soul in the face of sad injustice.
 
01:02:46 Anthony Rago: Italian temper here. I've literally seen red.
 
01:02:59 Suzanne: Reacted to "Italian temper here...." with 😂
 
01:03:29 Suzanne: Eh Rago!! Romano here!!
 
01:03:47 Anthony Rago: Reacted to Eh Rago!! Romano her... with "❤️"
 
01:10:11 Ashley Kaschl: I think I could contemplate these last handful of paragraphs for months if not years! But could we say that God’s meekness is also a facet of His mercy, too? To me, there seems to be not so much a reaching out from God in meekness but a “staying of His hand”, a resoluteness to endure our infidelity. If ever there was Someone worthy of being angry at being wronged, offended, or betrayed it is God and yet He waits and endures our wretchedness while not destroying us but offering us a way back to Him.
 
01:11:08 Suzanne: Reacted to "I think I could cont..." with ❤️
 
01:11:54 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I think I could cont…" with ❤️
 
01:14:49 Louise: Have a good ''All Saints Day''! Thanks Father!
 
01:15:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:20 Victor Haburchak: Thanks
 
01:15:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much for all the work you do!
 
01:15:24 David Swiderski: Thank you father! Have a blessed week!
 
01:15:35 sue and mark: thank you.
 
01:15:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:02 S Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:16:04 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part IV

Pride destroys the one thing that the spiritual person should desire - the  unfailing light in the eye of the heart. The ascetic life seeks to remove every impediment to our loving God and being faithful to his will. The moment that we are filled with conceit or self-esteem, our souls, despite having the illusion of wealth, come to know the greatest poverty and darkness. What appears beautiful on the outside is often foul and rotting within. Saint John tells us that a “proud monk has no need of a devil, he has become a devil and enemy to himself.” And so for all of us: Pride undermines every virtue and makes us vulnerable to the most cruel of foes. One is exposed to blasphemous thoughts, even at the time of worship. If we are not constantly reproaching ourselves for our sin and acknowledging our poverty before God, then the enemy draws close and begins to play with the mind and the heart by placing suggestions before us. The presence of these thoughts can lead a person into great despair and make them want to give off of prayer and the participation in the holy mysteries. Therefore, John exhorts us to continue praying to the end and not give up the fight even when we feel overcome. Our prayer must become ever more constant until such thoughts cease.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:02:06 Suzanne: Ave Maria!!!
 
00:11:02 FrDavid Abernethy: 172 para 26
 
00:11:37 Suzanne: Is there a link for the readings?
 
00:24:33 Anthony Rago: This is funny. I grow pomegranates and am not great at knowing when they are ripe. The color can be deceitful to a "newbie."
 
00:26:59 Maureen Cunningham: Sounds like a sport who could be the strongest  but only spiritual
 
00:32:40 Michael Hinckley: happens to me all the time.
 
00:36:02 Maureen Cunningham: I love that movie so true
 
00:41:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: 77777777777777777777
 
00:41:37 sharonfisher: I think of Jimmy Carter (not an a political sense) and his acceptance of God to take him when it’s his time. He seems to feel very comfortable with his end.
 
00:42:57 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: This translation says:  The man ensnared by pride will need God's help, since man is of no use to him.
 
00:45:39 Maureen Cunningham: It the opposite of the Holy Family
 
01:04:07 Suzanne: Would kneeling be the Western counterpart to prostrations?
 
01:09:22 David Swiderski: The prostrations are common in Jewish prayer as well. Early Spanish traditions sometimes one lays face first in the form of a cross similar to priest when ordained
 
01:10:13 Suzanne: In the Eastern Catholic Church, do the faithful stand during the Liturgy?
 
01:10:30 Michael Hinckley: you see it at or in TLM parishes at confession
 
01:11:33 Maureen Cunningham: In the Orthodox Church in Hawaii you stand and they touch the floor many times
 
01:11:45 sue and mark: Depending on the Adoration Chapel, you can frequently  see people prostrating themselves
 
01:11:54 Suzanne: Very interesting, thank you!
 
01:12:20 Anonymous Sinner: The touching of the floor is a symbolic reminder that we are dust, and to dust we shall return, and that it is only by the grace of God that do so while praying Alleluia
 
01:12:53 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "The touching of the ..." with 👍
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:06 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
 
01:13:07 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:10 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!  Thank you!
 
01:13:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part III

As we pour through the sayings of Saint John Climacus about pride and overcoming pride, what we see in the Evergetinos and its teaching on humility we see now in the Ladder’s teaching on pride. We are circling around something greater than just an idea. We circle around pride and look at its many facets in order to see how subtle the temptations often are to embrace the illusion that this vice puts before us. The devil will use every means to pull us away from the truth and truthful living. Therefore, Saint John wants us to see every manifestation of the pride in order that we also might apply the remedies that the fathers put before us. What becomes clear is the need for constant vigilance. We must not allow ourselves to lose sight of God and his mercy and grace or our poverty and sin. Everything good comes to us from the hand of God, and there is nothing that we can attribute to ourselves that is enduring. Christ is truth and so we must strive throughout the course of our entire life to avoid all falsehood. We must not succumb to the father of lies and so find ourselves in his grip or being his plaything. May God be our strength and source of invincible peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:07 sharonfisher: Maybe a dumb question, but I think of deification as something we acquire (gifted) at the end times. Are we to strive for deification in this worldly life?
 
00:28:06 Victor: Some theologians speak of realized & future eschatology (now & future).
 
00:31:20 sharonfisher: Thank you!
 
00:42:18 Ashley Kaschl: Comment for paragraph #19: I think this can be really true if we aren’t discerning. For example, I’ll throw myself under the bus 😂 
 
A priest and I were talking recently about how, before bed, I’ll sometimes get “carried away” by higher, theological thoughts and inspirations. And I’ll be drawn out of rest and end up awake for hours longer than I planned, which obviously makes me tired for the responsibilities the next day. This priest said, “it sounds like a distraction or a temptation.” And I hadn’t thought about that because I didn’t think about these beautiful things or contemplation of deeper truths I didn’t have time for during the day as devils in disguise to keep me from sleep. 
 
So when I tested this, sure enough, they went away when I prayed for deliverance if these seemingly good things were actually temptations/distractions from the great good of getting enough sleep.
 
00:44:40 Art: The sacrifice of the mass is greater than the sacrifice of a martyr.
 
01:06:15 Daniel Allen: It’s kind of like Lot. He had to be dragged out of Sodom by God, and even then when told to flee to the hills he asked to flee instead to a smaller city.
 
01:07:20 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Have a good retreat again!🙂
 
01:07:56 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 🙏
 
01:07:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing Father keep you in prayer I love the quotes on face book and instagram Thanks
 
01:08:07 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! I so appreciate your ability to bring clarity to the readings!
 
01:08:48 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 
01:09:03 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 
01:09:10 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part II

“An arrogant man yearns for authority; he cannot, or rather, does not wish to perish utterly.“ In many ways, this one saying sums up our reflection this evening. When pride takes hold of an individual soul, one begins to move further and further away from God. Rather than “perish utterly” - that is, die to self and sin - one drives God from the mind and heart. The capacity to love diminishes, the desire to humiliate others increases, and, finally, our perception of reality is distorted beyond measure. It is for this reason that Saint John entitles this step “On Mad Pride“.  The more that we turn away from He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the more that we turn away from He who is Meaning, the more we lose touch with reality. We become like the one who fell from heaven, the father of lies. We are drawn into the same darkness and inability to see not only the truth about our souls but also to see the depths of God’s love and compassion.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170 para number 2
 
00:15:21 TFredman: Have you heard from Ren? How is she doing?
 
00:16:21 Lee Graham: You will be greatly missed next week, you will be in my prayers.
 
00:43:33 David Swiderski: John mentions Gluttony is the prince of passions but also places Pride as a key passion are they both keys of all the passions? Is one more principal.
 
01:05:04 Louise: Therefore, how to understand one's desire to become competent, as competent as can be, to do things right?
 
01:14:05 Louise: So to become competent for Christ, to serve Christ in this world.
 
01:16:27 Victor: Thanks!
 
01:18:02 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...will be praying...
 
01:18:13 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:18:13 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:18:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part IV, and On Pride, Part I

Rarely do we acknowledge the extraordinary gift that God gave to his Church in the Desert fathers. It is precisely through their “living martyrdom” - their dying to self, to sin, and to the world, that they are able to guide us through the trials and tribulations of spiritual warfare. Their perception of our vulnerabilities as human beings was very acute. Humbled over and over again and acknowledging their sin and poverty before God, they came to see the many ways that the vices manifest themselves as well as the remedies to bring healing. The spirituality that arises out of desert monasticism is not one among many. It is “the spirituality” of the church. It is a manifestation of the deepest exercise of faith. In this the desert fathers became living icons of the gospel. For this reason, it is often acknowledged that “wherever we see renewal within the life of the church, there are the desert fathers.”  Saint John Climacus draws us into where the fiercest warfare takes place – the human ego. We often seek to place the self at the center of existence and so open ourselves up to the spirit of vainglory and pride. When these take hold of us they close the door to repentance and healing. Furthermore, St. John tells us, they lead to a kind of “madness”. They distort our perception of reality. We can no longer see God or the truth about ourselves. And we see others not as the object of our love and compassion. Rather we become pitiless inquisitors and inhuman judges. Thus, it has often been said that a prideful monk has no need to be attacked by the demons because he has become a demon himself. This is true for all of us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 169 paragraph 40
 
00:25:10 Louise: Could we say that pride usually prevents people to acknowledge that they are under a spell or diabolically influenced, while it is obvious to others given the incongruence of their behaviors?
 
00:37:06 Anthony: It sounds then that the bad things attributed to Vatican 2 is an example of poor formation.
 
00:44:53 Louise: Affirmation ''therapy'' is not psychotherapy, but an obligation from the
psychological boards. Otherwise, a psychologist looses his or her license.
 
00:45:37 Louise: This affirmation therapy applies to transgenderism.
 
00:46:36 sue and mark: louise, interesting.  I had not heard that.  thank you
 
00:48:31 David Swiderski: The book Orthodox Psychotherapy the science of the Fathers is very interesting on thsi subject.
 
01:04:12 David Swiderski: I loved that about Mother Teresa . A penicl in the hand of God. Not the hand not the author of what flowed through her.
 
01:10:07 Michael Hinckley: I always saw San Filippo as a precursor to Padre Pio
 
01:11:09 Anthony: When we crave entertainment like novels or movies - orvevrn news and talk radio - we open the door to the thoughts of others, to tell a story, and often the storytelling and acting makes vices into virtues. Even if it's not overt, the presentation undermines right thinking and behavior and causes future problems.
 
01:11:52 sue and mark: Reacted to "When we crave entert..." with 👍
 
01:12:22 Lee Graham: Reacted to "When we crave entert…" with 👍
 
01:13:07 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I loved that about M…" with ❤️
 
01:22:17 Rachel: That is so true!!
 
01:22:36 Rachel: Haha
 
01:23:39 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:41 David Swiderski: Thank you Father
 
01:23:48 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:23:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:23:52 sue and mark: good night.  thank you
 
01:23:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:23:55 Michael Hinckley: Santa Notte
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part III

One of the prophets writes: “the human heart is a treacherous thing, who can endure it!“ We begin to see the truth of this statement or more accurately the truth that is behind it. The spiritual battle that we engage in with our passions and our thoughts is often dogged by a kind of diabolical intrigue. The devil is relentless and unresting. He can manipulate us in such a way that he makes us desire to put ourselves forward, to put ourselves into the light; convincing us that to do so will draw people to greater faith. 
 
The evil one acts with a kind of patience; he will begin to work on us slowly. He begins by making us enamored with our own natural gifts and abilities. In this way he makes us unfaithful in small things; we attribute natural gifts to ourselves rather than simply being grateful for the things of God has given to us. Such infidelity grows over the course of time as well as the complexity of the evil one’s manipulation. He can begin to work on us from multiple angles, if you will. He can place scripture in our mind to do battle with the temptation of one demon, but then make us feel proud of our ability to do so. 
 
Therefore, St. John tells us that we must begin the road to freedom from vainglory by remaining silent about ourselves and our accomplishments. We must learn to love to be dishonored. To be a Christian in this world is to be mocked and held in contempt. We must set aside our tendency to wear a mask that makes us more acceptable in the eyes of the world. We may put on the appearance of virtue yet always within the limits of what our world finds acceptable.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:24 susan: seeing yourself as a debtor is truth
 
00:24:35 Rachel: John 4"34
 
00:30:18 Art: I recently heard in a homily: The Gospel teaches us not to be like the Pharisee who says, ‘thank you God that I’m not like the Publican’. 
But we must be careful that in our heart of hearts we’re not also saying, “Thank you God, I’m not like that Pharisee.”
Vainglory can strike from any side.
 
00:31:02 Rachel: Reacted to "I recently heard i..." with ❤️
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: One method of evangelization is to share from our own experience instead of preaching what one should and should not do, since no one can argue with our experience and it's a more non-threatening way to share
 
00:31:59 Eric Ewanco: How would we evangelize with what you said in mind?
 
00:44:58 Ambrose Little, OP: The text here (#34) specifically speaks of displaying virtues. It’s akin to Christ’s exhortation to not be showy when fasting, or not be showy when giving—do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. I don’t see it speaking against witnessing what God has done for us.
 
00:47:39 Lawrence Martone: Regarding self-revelation, there’s the point that the focus should be on God and not ourselves, when it is expressed.
 
00:50:00 sharonfisher: Purity in motivations.
 
00:51:46 Anthony: There might be another vainglory....to magnify to yourself evil mental motions and temptations and fixate on What have I done? This is also pharisaical.
 
00:53:51 Lawrence Martone: “Our real business is to allow God to shed His light through us, and since the light belongs to Him, He will know where to focus it and to what extent.  Our endeavor should be to make ourselves transparent so as not to eclipse His brilliance.”
                                                                           Erasmo Leiva-Merikais on Matthew 5:14 ff.
 
 
It seems to me that humility, as was mentioned earlier in Step 22, is essential to this endeavor of making ourselves transparent.
 
01:05:17 Cindy Moran: How does what John tells us apply to being a fool for Christ...
 
01:07:09 Cindy Moran: You just answered me.
 
01:07:11 David Swiderski: The Island is a movie from 2006 that demonstrates a fool for christ
 
01:07:25 Rachel: I wonder if this movement towards simplifying is somewhere where we have to be led by our Lord. Since it is an abyss we cant know how to navigate our way through. We can ' think" we know what kinds of dishonor we can profit by but it seems we have to wait to be led by only seeking God's will and what He reveals to us
 
01:10:33 Maureen Cunningham: ThankYou
 
01:10:35 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:10:48 Eric Ewanco: One year anniversary of your appointment!
 
01:11:21 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:11:22 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:11:24 Louise: Thank you!
 
01:11:25 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:11:29 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:11:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thanks be to God!  Thank you Father.
 
01:11:39 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy!  God bless
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part II

With stunning clarity, St. John Climacus begins to show us the subtlety of vainglory; how easily it draws us to focus upon the self in one fashion or another. It suggests thoughts that elevate us in our own eyes and diminishes others in our judgment. 
Through vainglory we begin the movement of placing ourselves in the position of God; placing the self at the center of the spiritual life. The battle becomes ever so fierce and dangerous because at this point the focus of the demons’ attention is on our virtues. The demons make them the object of our attention. In doing so they turn us away from God who is the beginning and end of all things. 
And with the self firmly planted at the center, we are easily driven to rage and wrath towards anyone who gets in our way.  In the end, St John will show us how this gives birth to pride and how it draws us into the very darkness of hell itself.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:31:16 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy,
 
Perhaps the opposite of this vice of vainglory and seeking prestige is the beautiful story about St. John Vianney who added his own signature to a letter of protest to the bishop from leading clerics and parishioners against his (Fr. Vianney’s) way of being a pastor.
 
00:38:42 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: St. John Chrysostom and St. Gregory the Theologian, also, fled the priesthood, but eventually offered the Church an extraordinary legacy. Vainglory, would you say, attacks or tries to undermine our authentic vocations?
 
00:52:05 Anthony: Living the spiritual life is not the same as conversations in a "salon" or on a college campus.
 
00:52:06 Ren Witter: 🤣🤣🤣 My favorite Philip story
 
00:55:35 Louise: Could we say that vainglory corresponds to the ongoing self-validation or self-degradation of the ego, the ego focusing on the ego? If I were to let myself, I could become quite exasperated at this pervasive phenomenon inside my psyche. Any thoughts, Fr.?
 
00:59:35 Louise: So, we ought to not fight with our vainglory, but gently turn back to loving Jesus Christ.
 
01:02:14 Louise: Thank you, Fr.
 
01:08:30 Rachel: I think vainglory can be ever so subtle. I know someone who was told by a priest they were being scrupulous in a certain matter when they tried to confess. This brought much confusion because the person knew that the sins they attempted to confess were not " serious matter" and did not need to be confessed but in their desire to fight pride and vainglory, which was the cause of their sins. The person then had to fight vainglory in another way and thatg was not to tell the priest they knew that they were not serious sins. It was more painful to be seen as scrupulous and weak minded for the person.
 
01:09:55 Louise: I feel compassionate with people with a narcissistic disorder of the self, an arrested psychological development, who are so often stuck in vainglory and pride. What a prison!
 
01:14:15 Kevin Burke: The deeper we go into John’s Vainglory examples the more it seems the same as pride to me.  Can we recap the distinction between Vainglory and pride?
 
01:18:13 David Swiderski: Aren't a lot of the theologians presenting vainglory by arguing about angels on a pin, filoque, how one makes the sign of the cross etc. etc.  Only I can see the truth ..... all others that don't agree with me are wrong.
 
01:20:22 Anthony: That's Dante 's penultimate circle of hell if memory is correct - persons who appear alive on earth but they have confirmed themselves in hell.
 
01:23:50 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you ,  Blessing in my prayers
 
01:24:30 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:24:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:24:43 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory

Self-esteem . . . how the meaning of that has changed over the generations. And when it becomes abstracted from our relationship with God, when our self-identity, purpose, and meaning becomes unmoored from He who created us, self-esteem can become the most grotesque of the vices. It will not only diminish our virtues, but destroy them completely. 
When the sweat and the toil of the spiritual life is turned back on the self or when ascetical practices become ends in themselves, they lose all value. Christ himself warns us about this in the Gospel. “If you fast in order that others see that you are fasting, then you have your reward.“ In other words, we have our payment in full. We see ourselves, and others see us as self-disciplined, but that is as far as the labor takes us. In this sense we become the most pitiable of all men, because we are acting as if there is no resurrection. If the things we do in this world, including religious things, are done for ourselves and to build up our own egos then they will eventually turn to dust. The love that has been revealed to us is self-emptying. 
In our day to hold fast to such an understanding can only seem absurd for in no way does it fit with the wisdom of the world. Only by keeping our eyes fixed upon God and fixed upon Jesus Christ and him crucified do we let go of the illusion not only of being the self-made man, but the self-made Christian. Religious people are not in capable of having their own delusions. In fact, the delusion of being religious can be the greatest among them and the most difficult to overcome. It is only when the cross is firmly rooted in the mind and the heart and when we have allowed ourselves to be humbled by it do we then become free; free, not for ourselves or to serve ourselves, but free to love others and God. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 beginning Step 22 on Vainglory
 
00:29:13 Anthony: Should we be looking at our works this way? I had thoughtbit was a heresy to believe that any thing we do, even every good thing, is infected with sin.
 
00:39:14 David Swiderski: Are the references to Fulton Sheen from Treasure in Clay?
 
00:39:44 Louise: Can we say that vain glory is present as soon as we identify with something, anything?
 
00:40:55 Louise: What inner attitude could counter vain glory? Maybe vulnerability, fortitude, and yet a complete dependency on God.
 
00:43:49 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I suffer the vainglory of fantasizing about meeting with someone or doing something in the future that will bring someone
 
00:44:07 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: someone's conversion and blessing.
 
00:55:09 Anthony: That was a very uncomfortable movie.
 
00:59:44 Ashley Kaschl: Father, you posted something this week by Evely that has really stuck with me, “…whereas you were trying to use even your first move of confidence towards God in order not to entrust yourself truly to Him, but to try to make him enter into your plans, like a pawn, like a pawn on your chess board. It is only when you accepted to be a pawn in his hand and in his plan, that you liberated your hope and his action." 
 
I think this relates to paragraphs 6 and 11 because, in the same way, the believing idolater or the flatterer uses God, and manipulates every good, as a means to their own end, for their own glory. I’m reminded of St. John Paul II saying, to a friend who asked him why God would let him suffer an assassination attempt and being shot that, “there is nothing better than to be a tool in the hand of God.” I think the vainglorious seeks control and betrays God for human honor or a perception of strength, and would rather put on airs than be changed internally, than to be docile to the will of God.
 
01:05:17 Maureen Cunningham: What the difference between Praise and Flattery
 
01:14:32 Kate: When one looks back and sees how much one has done not for God but for self, it can be very painful realization.  Yet what is so amazing is that God in His Providence was still very much at work during those times even when we were not seeking first His Kingdom.
 
01:14:37 David Swiderski: There is a tradition in my family with my grandfather, father and I try. When someone thanks them they say - don't thank me, thank God I am able.
 
01:14:53 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "When one looks back …" with ❤️
 
01:15:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "When one looks back ..." with ❤️
 
01:15:14 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "There is a tradition…" with ❤️
 
01:15:32 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is a tradition..." with ❤️
 
01:16:17 David Swiderski: It seems to help to realize nothing is inherent in you but flows from God.
 
01:19:24 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing thank you
 
01:19:30 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:19:31 sharonfisher: And with your spirit. Thanks!
 
01:19:32 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 
01:19:34 Ambrose Little, OP: Gracias!
 
01:19:37 sue and mark: Thank you FR. Abernethy
 
01:19:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:43 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:19:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 🙂 Thanks!

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXI: On Unmanly and Puerile Cowardice, Part I

Anxiety, it has been said, is ubiquitous. We all experience it and in its many manifestations. On a purely psychological level, one can never get to the heart or source of this feeling and its accompanying isolation. Often we find ourselves desperate to free ourselves from its grip. Therefore, we either immerse ourselves in the things of this world and maintain the illusion of security or we become paralyzed by it completely. 
The desert fathers including St. John Climacus, however, remind us that through the incarnation everything about what it is to be a human being has been assumed and embraced by our Lord, including this experience that often plagues our existence. Christ is the source of all healing and in and through our immersion in His life through the sacraments and prayer we begin to enter into the peace of the kingdom. We are commanded in the Scriptures not to have any anxiety at all. However, this is not simply a command but a promise of grace and strength. If we hold on to our faith in the Lord, if we truly hope in his promises, then all anxiety and fear will flee.  To call upon the name of Jesus is to flog our enemies; meaning not only the temptations that come to us from the demons, but the fears that they would insert into our minds and hearts. 
To mourn over one’s sin, to acknowledge the brevity of our life, is the set aside all illusion and false security. It leads us to cling to Christ who is life and love. So often we too like the disciples are foolish and slow of heart to believe. Yet in Christ even the most improbable of things becomes possible - that in the soul dedicated to God fear and cowardice disappears.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:02 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163 Step 21
 
00:19:55 LauraLeigh: In #2, is he saying that this "old soul" should know better than to give in to cowardice?
 
00:23:10 Eric Ewanco: Fear is a lack of trust in God
 
00:23:13 Louise: Fear arises when we read a situation as a threat, while boldness arises when we read a situation as a challenge. With Christ, maybe we should see  all situations as challenges which we can face with Him.
 
00:24:09 Cindy Moran: Pray for me I lost my wallet today Yes I am anxious.
 
00:25:22 Rebecca Thérèse: I'll pray for you Cindy
 
00:25:26 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:25:36 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Pray for me I lost m..." with 🙏
 
00:28:37 Louise: Why are even Catholics so afraid of dying? I do not understand.
 
00:29:42 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:31:31 David Swiderski: It is interesting I lived and traveled in very insecure areas with lots of kidnappings, random shootings/killings, widespread stealing where your car often is going in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil and I found people of amazing faith. Here were there is comfort and more lonleiness anxiety seems widespread.
 
00:35:45 wayne: Replying to "Pray for me I lost m..."
 
pray to St Anthony always helps, has worked for me
 
00:43:55 TFredman: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:45:36 maureencunningham: How did Moses come to Christ
 
00:49:28 Michael Abele: I am not afraid for my own safety, but sometimes I fear for the
people I care for and protect
 
00:51:23 LauraLeigh: I love that. "Flog your enemies with the Name of Jesus." I'm going to remember that.
 
00:53:08 Lori Hatala: I think God gave me enough sense not to purposely put myself in a harmful situation. ot avoiding all but knowing what to stay away from.
 
00:54:40 Eric Ewanco: ChatGPT summarizes his conversion thusly: Saint Moses the Black, once a violent bandit, sought refuge among desert monks in Egypt. Impressed by their peace and patience, he converted to Christianity, became a monk, and later an abbot, renowned for his deep spirituality and wisdom. He was martyred defending his monastery.
 
00:55:12 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "ChatGPT summarizes h..." with ❤️
 
00:55:37 LauraLeigh: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..."
 
I believe I read that he had about 70 monks under his care by the time he died.
 
00:55:43 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..."
 
yes
 
00:57:14 Lawrence Martone: Perhaps Ignatian “agere contra” can help us deal with fear, always trusting in Christ.
 
01:04:37 Michael Abele: Meant to phrase my earlier comment as a question: can the same be said about fearing for the sake of others? I suppose that can also get out of hand if we do not trust God
 
01:08:24 Jeff O.: Are barrenness of soul and spiritual desolation as Ignatius tends to identify it somewhat the same here? Or is he getting at something else?
 
01:10:28 David Swiderski: Jacobs Ladder the movie. All I saw were demons torturing and tearing at me but then I looked again and they were angels freeing me from the attachments of life.
 
01:11:17 Ashley Kaschl: Paragraph 9 is reminding me of the recent Gospel reading of Jesus calling Peter to walk on the water. Water generally represents chaos in scripture, something unformed or in turmoil. And I think also, if we believe wholeheartedly that we are made in the image of God, and the longer we spend in His presence, the more we are revealed as ourselves in that identity, it is almost as though overcoming temporal and animalistic fear is like passing through raging waters, to be “meeked” by the grace of God so that even our fears are rightly ordered.
 
01:12:53 Ashley Kaschl: Part 2: (sorry it’s long) if then, we are filled with this grace to have such a disposition as to be unmoving and freed from other fears, then we are always being filled. St. Bernard of Clairvaux says, “The man who is wise, therefore, will see his life as more like a reservoir than a canal. The canal simultaneously pours out what it receives; the reservoir retains the water till it is filled, then discharges the overflow without loss to itself. Today there are many in the Church who act like canals, the reservoirs are far too rare ... You too must learn to await this fullness before pouring out your gifts, do not try to be more generous than God.”
 
01:15:17 Ambrose Little, OP: (No need to read this aloud, Father): Would appreciate your prayers for my surgery tomorrow morning. It's supposed to be minor/outpatient. The post-op recovery/adaptation period is long, though. I'm optimistic for a good result. Thanks in advance! 
🙏🏻🙏🏻
 
01:15:46 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏
 
01:15:52 Art: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏
 
01:15:54 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:15:54 TFredman: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:15:55 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:02 Brian L: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:03 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:10 Jeff O.: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:17:29 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Part 2: (sorry it’s ..."
 
Love this. Very meaningful and helpful to me right now. ❤️
 
01:19:50 sue and mark: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:21:26 LauraLeigh: Father, just a reminder to check out Protecting Veil on YT. He's run Fr. Freeman, too.
 
01:21:44 Ambrose Little, OP: The intro to the hours of prayer is always good when feeling afraid: God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me!
 
01:22:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "The intro to the hou..." with 👍
 
01:22:32 LauraLeigh: The only thing I stumble on is that cowardice seems to mean fear or anxiety, but I tend to think of it a little differently. Need to sit with this for a while.
 
01:22:47 Michael Abele: Don't angels usually open with "be not afraid" when they make an appearance? I always thought they'd be a little scary to encounter, in an awe inspiring way.
 
01:23:00 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Don't angels usually…" with 💯
 
01:23:08 Barbara: Do the Eastern Fathers call upon the blood of Jesus as protection or
as dissolution of fears?
 
01:23:43 Susan M: I THINK IT IS PS 70.1
 
01:23:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Don't angels usually..."
 
Definitely as described by Ezekiel. 🙂
 
01:24:07 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "The intro to the hou…" with 👍
 
01:24:32 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70...." with 👍🏻
 
01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Don't angels usually..." with 💯
 
01:24:40 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70.…" with 👍🏻
 
01:25:03 Audrey C. Block: Had great fears this morning; went to Sacrifice of the Mass and still great fears( poor healthx6mos plus many other challenges)sat by Jesus in the Tabernacle and begged His healp over and over, finally by 30 min fears ALL gone!
 
01:25:36 Rachel: Ou rparish is in a rough neighborhood. Two contrasting experiences...one, a while back during a parish event that ran late I entered the chapel forgetting the roughness of the neighborhood. Upon leaving I rralized that no other person, except Our Lord present in the Blessed Sacrament was with me.
 
01:26:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Ps 46:1-3 is good meditation for this, too.
 
01:26:18 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Had great fears this…" with ❤️
 
01:26:25 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Had great fears this..." with ❤️
 
01:26:38 Rachel: Yet, recently the same situation, I entered the chapel alone, and even with this reading in mind, but, it took all of my strength not to look over my shoulder at every small sound in the dark!
 
01:26:55 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me…" with 🔥
 
01:27:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Had great fears th..." with ❤️
 
01:28:56 Rachel: There was no one in the chapel
 
01:29:04 Rachel: It was at night at dark
 
01:29:07 Lawrence Martone: Leiva-Merikakis has a remarkable reflection on the calming of the sea. (Mt. 8:23-27). Just one sentence: “The Savior is redeeming his disciples by making his profound serenity as God inhabit the same space as their frantic despair.”
 
01:29:16 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 😍
 
01:29:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me..."
 
God is for us a refuge and strength,
a helper close at hand, in time of distress: so we shall not fear though the earth should rock, though the mountains fall into the depths of the sea, even though its waters rage and foam, even though the mountains be shaken by its waves. (Abbey Psalter)
 
01:29:29 Ashley Kaschl: Replying to "Leiva-Merikakis has …"
LOVE him 🔥
 
01:29:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis ha..." with ❤️
 
01:29:48 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 🔥
 
01:30:04 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️
 
01:30:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️
 
01:30:58 Cindy Moran: I am so distraught that I almost didn't log on tonight...thank you
Father & Everyone for prayers. I don't feel so overwhelmed now. Thanks be to God. Bless you all.
 
01:31:30 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I am so distraught t..." with ❤️
 
01:31:54 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I am so distraught t…" with ❤️
 
01:32:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:32:34 iPhone: Thank you.  Very helpful.
 
01:33:03 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:33:06 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and God bless you.  good night.
 
01:33:07 maureencunningham: Thanks
 
01:33:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:33:09 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:33:11 Rachel: Thank you all. Thank you
 
01:33:16 David Swiderski: Thank you father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XX: On Bodily Vigil, Part II

All that was to be redeemed had also then to be assumed in the Incarnation. All that is human and all that is part of the human experience must be embraced by Christ in order that it might be healed by his grace. 
We are shown this in a very simple way in regards to one of our basic appetites as human beings - sleep. Like any other appetite, it must be ordered rightly; otherwise, it can end up stealing half of our life. Rather than being drawn into the rest of contemplation, we are often pulled into something much less helpful. Instead of engaging He who is Reality, Life and Love, we often seek to escape these things and enter into sleep or the myriad of ways that we can escape reality. 
Therefore, when it comes to prayer, we are often embattled. Sleep can come upon us quickly or we can be drawn to direct or attention to the work of our hands. The Evil One can stimulate the mind at just the right time to pull us away from the comfort and consolation of God into conversation, food, sleep, etc. We must understand that we are engaged in a spiritual battle. When the devil sees us engaging in spiritual warfare, when he sees us developing the discipline of prayer, he will immediately seek to afflicted us with temptations and fantasies the moment the prayer is finished. He will try to snatch away from us the first fruits of the soul. 
We can understand, then, why John tells us that bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil or alertness. We need to be alert not to protect ourselves from the things of this world, but from the darkness that would enter into our hearts if we do not guard them.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 162 para 10
 
00:09:06 angelo: Reacted to "page 162 para 10" with 👍
 
00:25:49 Maureen Cunningham: did they recite the Psalms as prayer
 
00:35:46 Louise: Television induces a trance in most people.
 
00:43:26 Louise: Another feature of watching television is that we become what we contemplate.
 
00:45:25 carol nypaver: Amen!🤣
 
00:46:11 Anthony: Recreation,  re-creation, takes work, and I find it's easy just to watch, but it is agitating and like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football, it's a recurrent trap around 10pm.
 
00:47:25 Eric Ewanco: This is a general question that's been percolating for a while in my mind as I've been listening to the sessions: Sometimes the desert fathers come across like salvation is so difficult to achieve that it would tempt me to despair, if I were to give it credence. Can you comment on their perspective, and also what they believed the chances of a layperson to be saved was?
 
00:47:33 Cindy Moran: I've worked in broadcast TV for 43 years. It's the last thing I pick for relaxation.
 
00:48:10 Ren Witter: Who was it who said: “I have learned a great deal from television, because, every time it is put on, I leave the room and read a book” ? 🤣 I don’t remember, but I thought it was great at the time.
 
00:49:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Who was it who said:..." 
 
 Groucho Marx said this.
 
00:52:15 Bonnie's iPad (2): In fact it can be quite shocking as to how quickly this can occur.
 
00:53:01 Art: Reacted to "Who was it who said:..." with 👍
 
00:53:13 John: I seem to be especially vulnerable to attacks right after Confession - including getting stuck behind a slow driver (the most annoying thing for a New Yorker... 🙂 so I've tried to become very vigilant at that time.
 
00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I seem to be especia..." with 😅
 
00:56:27 sue and mark: I remember hearing a priest say that "a saint is not someone who never fell, they just did not make friends with the dirt"  It is not the falling but the getting back up over and over again, according to this priest.
 
00:57:12 Bonnie's iPad (2): Reacted to "I seem to be especia…" with 👌
 
01:03:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Who was it who said:..."
 
Say it in your head with his style of speaking—classic. 🙂
 
01:04:03 Lawrence Martone: It is hard to find a priest/confessor who really understands spiritual warfare and dealing with attacks from demons.  The demons zero in on your weakest points, especially in retaliation after times of holiness and grace.  It can result in deep despondency, or anger, with a total absence of peace.
 
01:04:27 Lee Graham: Saints fall down and get up
 
01:05:05 John: Reacted to "It is hard to find a..." with 👍
 
01:05:38 Eric Ewanco: There is an agraphon (word of Jesus not in the Gospels) recorded
in the Byzantine Anointing of the Sick service that goes "As any times as you fall, arise, and you shall be saved".
 
01:06:14 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is an agraphon..." with 👍
 
01:07:33 Anthony: Sometimes I've used Frederick Neitsche in a way to help me. Exert the will not to stay in despondency. Despite emotional feeling, maintain a deep determination to hope.
 
01:09:38 Cindy Moran: I read that EWTN has a new series on The Desert Father's starting Aug 20
 
01:09:52 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I read that EWTN has..." with ❤️
 
01:12:51 Cindy Moran: 😄
 
01:13:13 Anthony: That's a mistake I believe the Puritans made.
 
01:14:58 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:41 John: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:15:49 Krissy: Thank you Fathet
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XX: On Bodily Vigil, Part I

The healing of the soul! So often we lose sight of the meaning of the spiritual life and the disciplines that we embrace. We often look at them as being punitive or requiring us to give up something that we enjoy or take pleasure in. We can lose sight very quickly of the presence of God even in the practice of prayer. 
This came forward when we discussed this evening something such as vigils. Rarely is the practice of vigil (breaking one’s sleep to rise and pray at night) ever discussed as a valuable exercise for those not only living in a monastery. To order our appetite for sleep and to break the night for prayer is seen as nonsensical or something that could jeopardize one’s health and well-being or one’s capacity to work. 
What we find in the spiritual tradition, however, is a far different vision. Bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil; that is, spiritual vigilance or alertness. Arising during the quiet of the night, humbled in mind and body, one is able to enter into the deep silence of prayer and receive more freely what God desires to give us. Not experiencing the impediment of worldly distractions or the distractions of a multitude of thoughts we are able to open the mind and the heart to God fully. And in doing so we can also experience the deepest healing. 
We begin to lose the desire to escape from reality in the things of this world or in sleep. The opening of the mind and the heart to God through deep prayer can bring about the repairing even of the deepest trauma caused by our own sin or the sins of others. God can pass freely into the deepest recesses of the human heart that learns how to become vulnerable to Him over time through the experience of His love and compassion. Trust emerges and with it hope.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:48 Nathan: (Thx Father, I'm using the Paulist Press CWS edition so that's helpful)
 
00:22:34 sharonfisher: I thought it was my dog whining! Lol
 
00:31:01 Maureen Cunningham: Page please, Thank You
 
00:31:29 Kevin Burke: 161
 
00:31:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you
 
00:35:59 John: Would practicing vigils have a positive effect on being subject to deceptive dreams? I've gone down numerous dead ends in the past trying to interpret dreams, or thinking that they were pre-cognitive, but most of them turned out to be mirages.
 
00:56:56 John: Sounds like vigils are a gateway to "the meat ye know not of."
 
00:58:43 Louise: Maybe the Beloved has given people insomnia (waking up in the middle of the night) so we can turn to ward Him during this quiet time.
 
01:00:56 Maureen Cunningham: sleep does not become your master,
 
01:02:20 Anthony: On vigils, prayers, rosaries,  looking at God as the other
imposing an obligation on me makes these annoying. But maybe looking at God as the Other Who gave me His image as an integral part of myself would make vigils, etc desirable.
 
01:03:19 Kate: Father, would you have any advice on how to begin the practice of vigils for someone who does not have a spiritual director who could help incorporate this practice in the interior life?
 
01:06:09 Anthony: The cell becomes hell
 
01:13:13 Anthony: The 3 Apostles slept in the Garden out of sorrow.  I'll have disordered sleep out of sorrow.
 
01:15:29 Lee Graham: Prayer changes us
 
01:18:12 Ren Witter: Yea. The “type and number” narrative about confession really makes the sacrament so transactional, and more like a bad experience with your doctor than an encounter with God.
 
01:18:15 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I had a priest say that to me in the confessional.  It did hurt and surprise me.  I've never forgotten it, obviously.
 
01:18:58 sue and mark: Reacted to "Yea. The “type and n..." with 👍
 
01:21:46 Greg C: Good comments, Ren.  We aren't a vehicle to be serviced.
 
01:21:47 Maureen Cunningham: You can not easily see a Doctor they zoom
 
01:25:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You ,
 
01:26:12 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:26:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIX: On Sleep, Prayer, and Psalmody with the Brotherhood

When we think of appetites or bodily desires, we rarely consider something such as sleep. Yet this evening St. John shows us that sleep is something that can disrupt that which is most important for the spiritual life; our prayer. Sleep is certainly an essential need that we have as human beings. However, there are many reasons that we can be drawn into it excessively. One of these is human nature of course. However, sleep can come upon us from an excess of food, from the temptation of demons, and also from extreme or prolonged fasting. Thus, sleeping is important for us to consider closely.  Excessive sleeping can become a long-standing habit that is difficult to cure. 
It may be difficult for us to think of demons having an impact upon us in this fashion. Yet, when the bell rings for prayer or when the alarm goes off in the morning we can hear a voice within our minds say “Wait, give yourself a little more rest.” In modern days the snooze alarm allows us to extend this indefinitely and we begin our days, perhaps lacking prayer altogether. We can also experience the sensation of severe and unusual pains in the stomach or fits of yawning or even waves of laughter over some amusing incident that comes to mind or takes place within the church. 
The same sluggishness in getting out of bed can follow us into the practice of prayer itself. We can hurry through our prayers; saying them inattentively and allowing the mind to wander. We can enter into church without the proper demeanor or making signs of devotion. When these patterns of behavior take over then the demons will certainly make sport of us. To combat this St. John encourages common prayer where we unite ourselves with others in this most essential practice of calling out to God. In this, we can call to mind Jesus’ own words, “Where two or three are gathered, there I am in their midst.“ 
Often in our day with the breakdown of Christian culture and community, those living in the world, sadly, find themselves left to pray on their own. However, we are not left to ourselves. Through the Hours or the Divine Office we were able to pray with one mind and heart with the Church throughout the world. A deep mystical Communion exist when we engage in the prayer of the Church. 
All this is meant to be a simple reminder to us about the subtle things that can distract us at the time of prayer. Therefore, St. John tells us that the practice of prayer itself purifies our hearts and increases our zeal and love for God. The more that we engage in the discipline of prayer, the greater our capacity to rout the demons!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 160 starting Step 19
 
00:38:58 sharonfisher: Yes, agree, but we’re not taught properly. (Re:genuflecting) Our western church has cradle Orthodox attendees from time to time. The grace of this one woman’s entrance and adoration was truly beautiful. I asked how she ‘learned’, but sh said she’d just grown up  with the reverence displayed.
 
00:42:15 sharonfisher: We need a manual to get us started! lol
 
00:43:15 Anthony: The older generation was taught a kind of theology that emphasizes human community.  So I think they were misled, thinking they are doing right by having socialization in church.
 
00:48:09 Lawrence Martone: Re: solitary prayer”for the very few’”  Some Third Order members are required to pray the office daily and spend at least 30 minutes in mental prayer daily - along with other requirements (but not under the pain of sin if missed).  Only at monthly meetings can we pray lauds or vespers in community.  Basically, we have no choice but to pray in solitude for the most part.
Isn’t that true of most lay people also?
 
00:51:51 Louise: Basically, demons are trying to make us turn our attention away from the Beloved. Yet, our present culture is ferociously made up of distractions, engineered with distractions.
 
00:52:26 TFredman: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
We used to pray Vespers following the 5:15 p.m. Mass Mon-Sat. This was a great blessing to us lay folk. I miss it.
 
00:52:58 Barbara: Would that we would become attentive to one another!
 
00:54:07 Lori Hatala: I find it frustrating when the windows are being closed before the priest even leaves the alter.
 
00:54:10 sharonfisher: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Does attending live streamed services count? (Hoping yes)
 
00:54:57 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
To TFredman,
 
00:55:08 Anthony: We can thank (intentional?) city planning and the heresy of Americanism for harming ethnic Catholic identity.
 
00:55:18 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Yes, I would feel the same way.
 
00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Certainly it is better to pray alone than not at all. As one such 3rd order member, I have found the Office to be a tremendous anchor to my spiritual life—even though in most cases I am alone.
 
00:55:47 Lori Hatala: I tend to go to silent prayer when someone leading  or loudly praying is rushing through it.
 
00:58:09 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
There’s a benefit to individual prayer in that there is time to pause and meditate on things that strike you. Can’t really do that in community.
 
00:58:52 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️
 
00:59:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️
 
00:59:12 sue and mark: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️
 
01:02:15 Susan M: I personally am very grateful for ZOOM
 
01:02:35 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with 👌
 
01:03:21 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm very grateful for Zoom and livestreamed prayer.
 
01:07:39 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "We can thank (intent..."
 
E. Michael Jones - “The Slaughter of Cities.”
 
01:08:09 sharonfisher: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️
 
01:10:14 Susan M: Henri Nouwen was my teacher for 3 courses 1971-74. Very blessed time.
 
01:10:55 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I find it frustratin…" with 😇
 
01:11:35 TFredman: Reacted to "I personally am very..." with 👌
 
01:11:39 carol: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:11:45 TFredman: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:13:52 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:14:22 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with ❤️
 
01:15:04 Cindy Moran: Great session, thank you Father
 
01:15:12 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 
01:15:21 Rory: Thanks, father
 
01:15:21 Deiren Masterson: God bless Father
 
01:15:30 Courtney Wiley: Thank you Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XVIII: On Insensibility

Darkness, whatever its source, cannot be driven out or overcome by mere force of will or through reason. The fathers reveal to us a darkness that exists within the human heart like no other - insensibility. It is a deadening of the soul and the death of the mind before the death of the body. We all have our vulnerabilities and have experienced wounds on both spiritual and emotional levels. To address this darkness requires an even greater trust in the grace of God to guide us through it and to provide us with what is necessary for healing. Each person is unique and with certain predispositions, including the predisposition to a more melancholic or morose state of mind. Furthermore, the human mind and heart are ever so changeable. 
It is also how the evil one can use these things to distort our vision of reality. We can be engaged in the religious and spiritual life and speaking about it and yet this can mask not only a sham piety but something even darker. We can live in the dark so long that it becomes the place of comfort. To move toward the light can be painful, especially if one has experienced trauma. 
More than any of the passions the remedy for this darkness consists of relying upon the grace of God and being drawn into the tenderness of Christ’s love. When our trust has been destroyed, we must allow Him to rebuild it. Where desire has been lost, we must wait for the Beloved to come to us to stir it into flame. Where wounds are so deep that they seem irreparable, it is only He who is the Lord of Life who can re-create us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:13:51 Susan M: Thank you for introducing me to the Optina Monastery and Elders! Am buying the recommended book.
 
00:26:47 John: Are all these internal contradictions the same as hypocrisy, or is that a different malady?
 
00:39:22 sharonfisher: That’s so interesting. I find myself unwilling to be around these really negative people. I love them, but I have my own issues battling depression. It’s hard to do both at once.
 
00:50:23 Ren Witter: I wonder - would these people really appear very negative on the exterior? So much of the description involves teaching or speaking, and most often those who take up that role are very dynamic and charismatic personalities. It seems like the melancholy aspect might kind of hidden.
 
01:01:36 Kate: Fr. David, Is this also known as sloth?  Or is that a different vice?
 
01:01:41 Ren Witter: I’ve been told that this, or something very similar to it, can be caused by a traumatic event - particularly one involving the Church in some way. Are fasting and vigils still the only way to begin fighting it in that case?
 
01:06:20 Ren Witter: “He and I” is also a very good one.
 
01:06:43 carol nypaver: Can you please repeat the name of the French priest and his book?
 
01:07:21 Louise: Gaston Courtois is the name of the French priest.
 
01:07:31 carol nypaver: Thank you!
 
01:09:32 David Swiderski: My experience is this often is connected to resentment and lack of detachment. Anyone digging up wounds from the past or worrying about the future cannot help themselves from falling into despair.
 
01:13:25 Louise: In my clinical experience, it was my willingness as a psychotherapist to be there with the, to remain with them despite the intensity of their pain, which was healing - I did not abandon them as they were experiencing abandonment depression from early childhood.
 
01:17:10 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:10 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:17:15 David Swiderski: Thanks father!
 
01:17:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XVI: On Avarice, Part II and Chapter XVII, On Non-Possessiveness, Part I

Freedom! We often associate this word with our own rights in this world or our capacity to do as we will and go where we want. A kind of promise is put out to us - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 
Yet the image of freedom that is put before us by the saints and by Saint John in particular is attached to our willingness to be “detached” from the things of the world. God created all things good but in our sin our tendency is to idolize them. We seek our identity and happiness in the things of this world and we work ourselves to the point of exhaustion to protect these things as well as ourselves from others. We do not want to lose what we have or what we have earned. 
Yet we very quickly learn that this is no real happiness. In fact, it is the root of all evils. The deeper that root becomes, the greater our desire for the things of this world grows. It begins to produce the fruit of hatred, thefts, envy, separations, enmities, storms, remembrance of wrong, hardheartedness, and murderers. Therefore, what we hold up as having so much value for ourselves, and what seems to promise us freedom and safety eventually becomes our prison or the shackles that bind us. It is only in having tasted the things above that one begins to find joy, freedom from care, and the loss of anxiety. If we obtain this virtue, John tells us, we run the race with the swiftness of athletes of old - that is, stripped and unimpeded. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Yes happy birthday!
 
00:11:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Yes happy birthday!" with 🎂
 
00:15:23 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy,
 
00:15:50 Lawrence Martone: What is your opinion of The Noon Day Devil book?
 
00:22:32 Connor: Re: point 1 - Prayer of the Last Optina Elders:
 
O Lord, grant me to greet the coming day in peace, help me in all things to rely upon your holy will. 
In every hour of the day reveal your will to me.
Bless my dealings with all who surround me. 
Teach me to treat all that comes to throughout the day with peace of soul and with firm conviction that your will governs all. 
In all my deeds and words, guide my thoughts and feelings. 
In unforeseen events, let me not forget that all are sent by you. 
Teach me to act firmly and wisely, without embittering and embarrassing others. 
Give me strength to bear the fatigue of the coming day with all that it shall bring. 
Direct my will, teach me to pray. 
And you, yourself, pray in me. 
Amen.
 
00:26:01 Susan M: Father, who are the last Optina Elders?
 
00:28:04 Connor: Guess I’m the quote guy today:
 
“All our peace in this sad life lieth in humble suffering rather than in not feeling adversities. He who best knoweth how to suffer shall possess the most peace; that man is conqueror of himself and lord of the world, the friend of Christ, and the inheritor of heaven.” — a Kempis (Imitation of Christ)
 
00:31:14 Eric Ewanco: Do we know the Greek for "non-possessive" (my translation uses "poor"/"poverty" but I like your translation better)?
 
00:31:52 Connor: Replying to "Father, who are the …"
“Over the course of one century—from Elder Leonid's arrival in 1829 until the Monastery's forced closure by the Communists in 1923—Optina, with its Skete of St. John the Forerunner, was at the center of a tremendous spiritual revival in Russia.”
 
https://orthochristian.com/65171.html
 
00:31:59 John: Replying to "Do we know the Greek..."
 
So does mine (archive.org).
 
00:32:39 Connor: I was responding to a question Father, no need to read it lol.
 
00:35:18 Susan M: Thank you.
 
00:37:14 Connor: Replying to "Do we know the Greek…"
ἀκτημοσύνης in response to Greek for non-possessiveness. Literally “landless.”
 
00:45:31 Anthony: To forget the Beatific Vision is to merely fight the devil mostly conscious of your own efforts.  Been there.  Done that / Doing that. Not healthy.
 
00:52:44 Connor: St. Louis de Montfort famously got into bar fights over Our Lady’s honor… even after his ordination…
 
00:57:03 Anthony: Regarding "principles" in our Anglo-American world it seems to me some of our principles have been developed and used to harden us against conscience and towards vice.
 
00:57:16 Louise: I find that it is mostly the human gesture and the smile in return that is the gift, beyond the money given; the person feels treated as a human being at this moment.
 
00:57:41 Anthony: Reacted to "I find that it is mo..." with ❤️
 
00:57:49 Anthony: Replying to "I find that it is mo..." 
 
I agree
 
01:18:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you
 
01:18:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part XI and Chapter XVI: On Avarice, Part I

The Mystery of the Human Person! 
What comes forward in the ascetical writings of the fathers is not a moralistic or legalistic view of sin. Rather, we see within them a deep understanding of the complex beauty and dignity of the human person despite often being marred by sin. Perhaps too often we emphasize the negative; rather than fostering a desire both for God and for virtue and for the freedom and joy that it brings to the human heart. 
Like so many of the fathers, Saint John describes certain passions as a disease in need of remedy. While we must be disciplined in so many ways and vigilant in our thoughts, we never want to lose sight of how God has created us; that it is through our very being that we love and give ourselves in love. We are not meant to hate ourselves but rather sin. Self-contempt can often be our demise in the spiritual life. True love of the self begins with the desire for God; not with self-indulgence or laziness that reduces and diminishes the image we have of creation and our own goodness.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:42 Ashley Kaschl: I was trying to say we have a diocesan hermit so if you DO want to stay, he’s got room haha
 
00:34:50 Louise: An amazing movie just came out, called 'Sound of Freedom, about combatting child sex trafficking. Being a trauma therapist myself, I can only fathom that pedophilia is due to demonic influence. These people are untreatable. What are your thoughts?
 
00:35:22 carol nypaver: It was a very informative and well-done film!
 
00:36:43 David Swiderski: Doesn't abuse of food or lust devalue these things. I know when I break a long fast water taste sweeter, food is savored and so when we truly develop love rather than just physical attraction or objectification. The diamond is often hidden by the dirt on the outside.
 
00:39:33 Louise: By the way, 2.5% of priests abuse children sexually, 5% of physicians, and 10% of school teachers, according to three studies.
 
00:44:21 Art: What do you mean Father?
 
00:55:03 Charbel & Justin: “Prefer nothing to the love of God.”
 
01:10:59 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! I must go.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: I am friends with many people who are constantly worried about money, about their paychecks, jobs, etc. and it prevents them from choosing to move forward in their potential vocations, so they put it off and put it off and put it off. I think some of the downsides of our culture, and even the mindset of many who come out of universities today, is this absolute concern about climbing the ladder in their jobs or this habit formed to always look for “greener grass”/better opportunities. And this demand of function over substance makes me think of a quote by CS Lewis: 
 
“In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”
 
01:16:42 John: There's an old Rod Serling movie about the corporate mindset (ladder-climbing) called "Patterns."
 
01:17:16 Monk Maximos: Good night
 
01:17:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️
 
01:17:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:17:56 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:18:04 Art: Thank you!
 
01:18:17 Jeff O.: 🎉🎉🎉
 
01:18:22 Monk Maximos: Flying to the Holy Land on Saturday. Will be praying for you.
 
01:18:30 David Swiderski: Have a wonderful Birthday Father!
 
01:18:34 Eric Ewanco: happy birthday!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part X

The fathers have often been accused of having a negative anthropology; that is, a negative view of the human person and human nature. However, as we read through St. John’s teachings on chastity and purity, we begin to see that their understanding arises from a very high and exalted anthropology. Their understanding of how God has made us, the beauty that is expressed in our very nature is so high that we must respect its preciousness as a gift from God. Furthermore we must also respect the power that lies within us and that it is through this nature that we are able to love and give ourselves in love to others and serve God. 
 
Indeed, it is true that sin has darkened our vision of this truth and our will has often become weak so that we misuse our nature and the appetites associated with it. Yet, God looks upon us with mercy and compassion and gives us every aid for healing. It is the Evil One that becomes our accuser who tries through shame to draw us into despair. 
 
Part of the relentless nature of our struggle with these sins is that we are forever bound by nature to this body of ours. Yet we must remember in the struggle that the body is destined to put on immortality and incorruptibility by God’s grace. We are called all even now to make use of our body through the ascetic life to share in this incorruptibility through purity of heart.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What step?
 
00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 151 paragraph 76
 
00:20:36 Anthony: I wonder if "worm" means not the helpful compost bug, but is really the Anglo Saxon "wyrm" or dragon.
 
00:26:32 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "I wonder if "worm" m..." with 💡
 
00:27:51 Louise: Disgust and shame are useful emotions when we apply them onto our faults. Otherwise, we justify our faults. Would you say?
 
00:30:36 LauraLeigh: It seems to me that St Climacas, like other Desert Fathers, ask for a very difficult mental balance between being uber-humble while maintaining a healthy psychology. If you don't have a strong grip on your mental health, this ascetical lifestyle could trip you up or even take you down. Other than recommending a guide, like an elder, any thoughts about how we can cautiously yet profitably practice asceticism?
 
00:31:20 Anthony: I learned something,  I think from a talk by a Maronite. It can be helpful to pray Jesus Prayer in another language.  Sometimes that prevents thoughts in one's native tongue from arising in the mind.
 
00:34:39 LauraLeigh: I need to remember that the Fathers are talking to others already in the ascetical life. And then to remember to order everything toward God.
 
00:35:46 sue and mark: could it be said that simply looking for opportunities to practice self -restraint for the love of God is a good place to start.  especially in the areas of our passions.
 
00:36:06 angelo: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with 👍
 
00:42:13 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with ❤️
 
00:43:01 LauraLeigh: "The Way of the Ascetics"
 
00:46:46 carol nypaver: The Little Flower
 
00:52:15 Anthony: Remember: the demons don't play fair.
 
00:53:24 Cindy Moran: In the Classics of western spirituality version of the Ladder this verse translation is unclear to me
 
00:54:11 Cindy Moran: Yes.
 
00:54:40 Cindy Moran: I'm slow
 
00:56:14 Cindy Moran: Because the soul tormented by earlier sin is a burden to me I will save it from its enemies Lk 18:5
 
00:59:15 Cindy Moran: Much clearer to me now
 
01:05:31 LauraLeigh: Being proud of your sins is a sign of a darkened conscience, I think. And a sensitive and refined conscience is a great help in getting a handle on troubling or persistent sins. This is what I'm particularly working on.
 
01:06:36 angelo: Reacted to "Being proud of your ..." with 👍
 
01:08:26 Anthony: I think it also means that you've entrusted yourself to God,  He won't play legal games with that trust and so the evil thoughts are not as awful upon us as the devil wants us to think. Sure the devil is a deceiver and wants us to take full mortal sin culpability for what the demons sows.  But the struggle is evidence God loves you and takes your whole self and situation into account.
 
01:09:25 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with ❤️
 
01:10:30 angelo: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with 👍
 
01:10:37 Eric Ewanco: I've found it immensely consoling that empirical evidence from exorcisms establish that demons are extremely legalistic. The converse of this is that God is not. This is a great relief to me, as we often tend to see God as legalistic and looking for "gotchas"
 
01:12:08 John: After you've read Fr. Mateo's "Night Adoration in the Home," it's impossible to think of God as legalistic. He is the complete opposite!
 
01:12:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️
 
01:12:34 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️
 
01:12:50 LauraLeigh: Replying to "After you've read Fr..."
 
I have that! Thanks for the reminder!
 
01:13:05 Susan McShane: Reacted to "I've found it immens..." with ❤️
 
01:13:05 John: Replying to "After you've read Fr..."
 
👍
 
01:13:23 sue and mark: I have that too...
 
01:14:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr!
 
01:14:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session
 
01:15:02 Jeff O.: Thank you! Blessings
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part IX

Gustave Flaubert once wrote, “God is in the details.“ The truth of this statement is born out in this evening‘s writing from Saint John Climacus on the fathers’ understanding and description of the development of a passion within the soul. With great clarity, St. John takes us step-by-step through the inner movements of the mind and the heart. The battle begins with an assault. An image or an idea is encountered for the first time and enters into the heart. There’s no sin in this, but our response is important nonetheless. If we begin to converse with the image or idea its presence will take us a step further. We cannot allow ourselves to linger with such images even if we do not seem to be moved by them. Eventually, Saint John tells us, if we do linger we can fall into consent; the soul bends down, as it were, and begins to take delight in the temptation. Such temptations can also come upon us with force; seeking all at once to destroy any semblance of order or peace within the heart. What is important is that we struggle; that we engage in the spiritual battle and fight with equal or greater force against what seeks to afflict us. A passion develops whenever a sin nestles with persistence in the soul and forms a habit. It is then that the sins has put down deep roots and begins to guide and direct our decisions and actions. The passion is unequivocally condemned in every case.  St. John tells us, therefore, that we must seek to cut off the first assault with a single blow in order to prevent everything that might follow.
Finally, Saint John reveals to us just how humble we must be in the spiritual warfare. There are temptations that can come to us that he describes as a “flick of the mind”. They are instantaneous and inapprehensible.  There can be something in our life that triggers a memory or movement from the depths of our unconscious.  It gives rise to or stirs a passion that has not been healed, but merely buried. All of this teaches us that our desire must be directed toward God and God alone. The human heart can be a treacherous thing, and as the prophet asks, “who can trust it?“ It is God alone who we must trust. We must hope in his promises and the grace that he offers us from moment to moment. This is our path to healing.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 150 para 72
 
00:15:34 angelo: Reacted to "page 150 para 72" with 👍
 
00:19:25 Daniel Allen: Joined a little late, where are we at?
 
00:19:40 Bonnie Lewis: 72
 
00:19:55 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:20:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍🏻
 
00:20:37 Anthony: Read Agatha Christie, and this doesn't seem to strange.
 
00:40:17 Lawrence Martone: Pope Shenouda says “Be aware then, of the first step toward sin and run for your life.  You are not stronger than Adam…”
 
00:40:49 carol nypaver: 😲
 
00:43:16 Louise: Would you say that repentance involves feeling pain from having hurt another? This pain thus becomes a stimulus to possibly prevent the future repetition of this sin.
 
00:52:31 Anthony: A person can be so focused on avoiding temptation that the person's psychology or demons or something else can constantly bring to mind the thing to be avoided - kind of making the temptation always present.  Maybe it's an after-effect of eating from the tree we were not to eat.
 
01:06:49 Cindy Moran: Going postal
 
01:07:34 LauraLeigh: Blindsided.
 
01:10:31 Rory: May I speak
 
01:10:55 Patrick: Fr. David, can you please clarify the meaning of 'dispassion' in the last sentence of 15.74? Is it synonymous with asceticism in this context?
 
01:11:18 Anthony: But is he saying the flick of the mind actual moral guilt?  How much of this fault, how much is over-focus on the self?  Be focused too much on this, be too sensitive, and you can go nutty, not be a "man fully alive."  That's surely not good.  Our Lord was supremely sensitive to good and evil, but He was also self-possessed. 
It's possible even these saints went a little self-obsessed and accidentally project that forward to us.  It interferes with life to always be aware of every possibly evil and continually feel guilty.
 
01:16:31 Daniel Allen: How does this relate to Christ saying, “Do not let your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe in Me also.”
 
01:17:54 Daniel Allen: To expand on that question, if a flick of the mind can cast us into sin without any noticeable stimulus how does one not become troubled?
 
01:18:39 Ren Witter: Replying to "How does this relate..."
 
Maybe the context of that is pretty important in this case. At that moment he is speaking about his crucifixion. At the same time, he also says of the peace he wants his disciples to have: “not as the world gives it do I give it to you."
 
01:20:40 David Swiderski: One must quiet the mind to hear the voice of God who is like a whisper on the wind while the devil is a constant irritating  and rattling of the passions.
 
01:21:07 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "One must quiet the m..." with 👍🏻
 
01:21:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:14 Cindy Moran: Replying to "How does this relate..." 
 
 Thank you Father!
 
01:22:23 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 
01:22:25 Bonnie Lewis: So beautiful.  Thank you Father David.
 
01:22:28 kevin: thanks Ren and Fr
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VIII

The beauty of virtue! So often we discuss the spiritual life as if the main goal or the end of it is simply the avoidance of sin. While avoiding sin certainly is essential, we are called to something far greater. What we received through the Paschal mystery and through our baptism is adoption as sons and daughters of God; the capacity by grace to share in the life of the Trinity. The fathers speak of deification. 
 
As we read through Saint John’s description of purity and chastity, these truths begin to manifest themselves. We engage in this constant struggle with our own appetites and with the temptations from the demons not simply to avoid sin, but to give and receive love in the way God intended; for that love to be rightly ordered and also, by grace, to become something that is supernatural. 
 
We are to love one another as Christ has loved us. It is often very difficult for us to understand this because more often than not we have never tasted the fruit of this virtue. We are surrounded by its opposite; and often have been immersed in that which is impure for most of our lives. Yet, even as we struggle for this virtue, we must not fall into a purely moralistic or legalistic view of life. It is through entering into the love of Christ and receiving that love through the holy Eucharist, that we are given the capacity to love in a selfless fashion. Furthermore, it is also through this Grace that we become capable of receiving such love without any impediment. May God open our eyes to the beauty of the life that He is made possible for us and the beauty of virtue!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63
 
00:10:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63 “When we are in the world for some necessity”
 
00:35:38 Louise: If King David repented, why did his kingdom went down so badly via his descendance (Solomon)?
 
00:45:49 Eric Ewanco: He's referring to Peter who Scripture said had a mother-in-law
 
00:48:07 Lawrence Martone: Regarding the question on David, I would highly recommend:
 
00:48:51 angelo: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:49:43 Louise: Thanks to both!
 
00:52:06 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:52:18 TFredman: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:53:45 angelo: Replying to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg"
 
it is free on pdf file in St. Philopateer Coptic Orthodox website.
 
01:02:32 Anthony: Long ingrained habits can be at play.  In NY, I remember Talk Radio or Frank Sinatra etc often being in the background.  It can be uncomfortable not to have something in the background.
 
01:08:16 Cindy Moran: Th orthodox seem to have more involved night prayer in their books.
 
01:13:13 Cindy Moran: I've done that at times...LOL
 
01:15:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Until very recently it was common for everyone to have two sleeps broken by some kind of activity in the middle of the night even including going out and visiting others
 
01:18:12 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...Happy Father's Day, too!
 
01:18:17 angelo: thank you
 
01:18:19 TFredman: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and everyone!
 
01:18:19 Jeff O.: thank you!
 
01:18:19 David Swiderski: Thank you
 
01:18:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:28 kevin: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VII

As we continue our reading of Step 15 on purity and chastity, gradually we are being shown a broader vision of what is offered to us through the ascetical life. Purity and chastity are not limited to dealing with our sexual appetites. Rather, we are striving to overcome any impediment to our seeing things and loving things in the manner in which God created us. Our vision is often distorted by our sin to the extent that we will objectify the things of this world and individuals to be used in whatever means we see fit. We lose sight of the dignity of the other as well as the beauty of creation. A heart that has been purified is capable of seeing the presence of God in every person, regardless of their deeds, and in every element of creation. A pure heart is the freest in its capacity to love. 
Perhaps many of us have never tasted such a thing even in the smallest measure.  It is for this reason that St. John presents us not only with aids in the battle for purity, but also with the image of the highest degree of purity  we see in saintly individuals. They are often moved to tears when their capacity to see the world and others is elevated from the purely natural to the supernatural; to see the very essence and beauty of all things created by God.
---Text of chat during the group:
00:09:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 148 para 56
 
00:20:38 Lori Hatala: What is dwelling amongst the tombs?
 
00:21:08 Louise: They are suckling, not the breast but a bottle, nonetheless.
 
00:21:52 Anthony: St. Anthony the Great and St. Benedict were both assaulted by vivid images. It seems they are examples of struggle against the violence of images.  I think one of the Desert Mothers (Synclectica?) has a saying or two about this for women as well.
 
00:22:19 Rory: ?does God communicate through dreams?
 
00:25:46 angelo: The Jesus Prayer is also a great help.
 
00:34:51 Eric Ewanco: "a bruised reed he shall not break; a smoldering wick he shall not quench"
 
00:37:05 Patrick: St. John doesn't seem to often caution against attempting ascetical practices but seems to more often praise them. How does one balance gradually adding more over time while balancing a certain level of self-knowledge and identifying if, perhaps, it may be too much to apply a certain practice. Example: at least from my experience, vigils that impact getting a certain amount of sleep may seem to make fighting against various thoughts the next day more difficult. I suppose this must be discerned on a case-by-case basis since it seems nuanced in practice?
 
00:44:46 Nathan: I was thinking that sometimes as we 'rationally' reflect on these writings and concepts of ascesis or our various modes of living and ways of participating in the body of Christ that it helps us to remember that all of our relations and practices are to participate with Christ/Trinity in the wooing of all back into the intimate union of paradise and the kingdom - NOT so much discipline and effort but longing and love to restore full union between all and its dear God?
 
00:50:48 Rory: ?is there a presence of God in all people that can be seen?
 
00:50:50 Rachel: But perhaps it should be remembered that it is God Himself that reveals Himself in the other
 
00:52:26 Ashley Kaschl: Reminds me of a quote by Ven. Fulton Sheen: "Dear Lord, what can we, Thy followers, do to bring peace to the world? How can we stop brother rising up against brother and class against class, blurring the very sky with their cross-covered Golgathas?
Thy First Word on the Cross gives the answer: We must see in the body of every man who hates, a soul that was made to love. If we are too easily offended by their hate, it is because we have forgotten either the destiny of their souls or our own sins.
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Forgive us for ever having been offended. Then we, like Thee, may find among our executioners another Longinus, who had forgotten there was love in a heart until he opened it with a lance."
 
00:52:32 Rachel: That it is us who in the meantime patiently wait for Him to reveal himself, and grant this purity of heart and until then in all humilty know, that we guard our senses and hearts.. I only say this because it can be discouraging to find weakness so deeply rooted in our hearts
 
00:53:50 Nathan: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❣️
 
00:54:14 Ashley Kaschl: I love him 😂
 
00:54:23 Rachel: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with ❤️
 
00:54:23 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❤️
 
00:54:46 Louise: At the Traditional Latin Mass, there is a beautiful prayer, "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus! Heaven and earth are full of Your glory, …Alleluia, alleluia."
 
00:55:20 carol nypaver: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with 🥰
 
00:55:33 Rory: Jesus spoke of the Samaritan who helps the man on the road who was beaten, as an example of how we treat our neighbor as ourselves
 
00:55:37 Rachel: This was meant to be attached to the other comment but the class moves faster than I can type +)
 
00:56:00 Ann Grimak: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot…" with ❣️
 
01:00:21 Ashley Kaschl: That quote is either from his anthologies or from the little book of his sermons on the last seven words called “The Seven Capital Sins” it would be under the reflections on Anger/Wrath
 
01:00:53 Anthony: Maybe it would help to distinguish the different meanings of "sin" in the Bible and the Fathers.  It seems to me that one meaning is our general inclination to evil, another is entertaining what is wrong, another is doing what is wrong, another is "mortal sin."  These meanings maybe can get mixed up in our thinking about the Faith.  Sometimes the meaning "sin" seems univocal, but places like 1st John indicate that there are lots of meanings of "sin."
 
01:02:08 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Maybe it would help ..." with 👍
 
01:03:32 Rachel: What I was trying to touch upon was how we are supposed to see the other. With purity of heart. Amma Syncletica prayed that her heart would be pure towards all. This got me thinking many years ago about what that means. The purity of heart that Saint Climacus is speaking of is something rarely ever spoken of because many are stuck on the surface or, dont really know what it truly means to objectify the other. It is not only speaking in terms of lust but, there can be many ways in which we only seek ourselves and so God will not reveal himself or, we are incapable of seeing him in the other because our hearts have not been healed.
 
01:03:57 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "What I was trying to…" with ❤️
 
01:04:41 Rachel: I was trying to touch upon St. John speaking of how a soul in that state like Amma Sybcletica is speaking of does not pray that her heart be pure towards all so she may feel better about herself but so that she may see God, this side of the veil.
 
01:06:22 Rachel: Yes, just as you said Father, very simply. So she may love Him.
 
01:13:01 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:13:41 Nathan: Thank you so much (and for the Pentecost retreat) and
the so many many careful prayerful readings you guide us through
 
01:13:42 Rory: what is the email address? 
Have a good night
 
01:13:46 Michael Abele: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:49 Nathan: Replying to "Maybe it would help ..."
 
'inclination to evil'?  Guess I had understood that both evil and sin were swerves or mistaken applications of the good - not anything in themselves - but twistings of what is good in means or ends or fulfillments of the 'true' desire that evokes the activity?  Ascesis and 'purification' are to reorder these aims aright (in union with God)?  I had thunk - finding the fullness of the misguided in the way-truth-life?
 
01:13:50 Jeff O.: Amen! Thank you!
 
01:13:50 David Swiderski: Thanks father!
 
01:13:54 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VI

John continues to draw us ever deeper into the mysteries of the human mind and heart. We are in a constant state of receptivity as human beings. We are constantly engaged with the world around us through our senses. Our vigilance, therefore, must be of such a nature that we take these things into consideration. The sense of touch, the sense of hearing, etc., all can be things that give rise to the passions. In and of themselves, they may not be sinful and may not lead to sin on many occasions. However, our understanding of the power of this receptivity leads to the realization that the evil one can use them as a source of temptation. There is no room for pride in the battle that emerges from sensuality. 
Even actions and behaviors from the past remain forever in the imagination and memory. They are deeply ensconced in the unconscious. No matter how long ago certain things took place, something in the present day can give rise to and trigger those memories ever so powerfully. Conceit will always be our downfall; when we think our spiritual practices or circumstances, place us outside the reach of temptation. Saint Isaac the Syrian said in the spiritual battle there is no Sabbath. In other words, there is no rest in this life when dealing with the temptations of the evil one.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:12:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:17:47 Anthony: Maybe the way "Theology of the Body" is approached by some teachers, the way physicality and theology are intertwined and appealed to by the imagination is a dangerous thing.
 
00:19:46 Rory: ?is the silent stillness our spiritual existence?
 
00:24:51 Louise: Could reading the Psalms written by King David stimulate the sexual appetite because he gravely fell in the sins of fornication and adultery, and also murder?
 
00:35:48 Cindy Moran: I don't understand this about the man & his mother...
 
00:37:58 Rory: ?are words a sense of touch?
 
00:38:15 Cindy Moran: Ok...I am getting more clarity...thank you.
 
00:38:50 Anthony: It's a sad reality that such a thing as incest exists.  I guess the watchword is chastity or prudence, not focusing on so many permutations of evil that exist.
 
00:43:26 Cindy Moran: My mother told us to remember that you can't "unsee" something.
 
00:49:54 David Swiderski: There used to be a long tradition of contemplating the 5 wounds. I have found this extremely helpful to also sort out personal wounds. There is something strangely beautiful in overcoming suffering.
 
00:51:08 Rory: ?are deep wounds transcended by surrendering our weakness to God?
 
00:52:11 David Swiderski: The cross itself is our sign of victory
 
00:52:51 B.M.: Reacted to "The cross itself is ..." with ❤️
 
00:53:16 David Swiderski: Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me.
Within your wounds conceal me.
Do not permit me to be parted from you.
 
00:54:41 Lorraine Green: Is there a third order for laymen that is mainly Eastern?
 
00:54:54 Anthony: The demons see out want to follow Christ and take advantage of our weakness to crucify us by our weakness, so we then have a real solidarity with the Crucified One.
 
00:56:12 wayne: I belong to the eastern rite, and to my knowledge there is not third order in the east
 
00:57:33 Anthony: Replying to "Is there a third o..."
 
An internet search shows there are "associates" of monastaries - Holy Resurrection Monastery, Sisters of St. Basil.  These are answers at byzcath.org.
 
01:14:05 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 Excellent session...thank you Father!
 
01:14:13 Lorraine Green: Replying to "Is there a third ord..."
 
Thank you
 
01:14:17 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:14:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:21 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David.
 
01:14:38 Louise: Thank you!
 
01:14:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 🙏
 
01:14:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part V

The subtlety of Temptations! Again, and again the fathers show us the relentless work of the evil one in drawing the mind ans the heart of individuals into sin. He can create within our hearts a kind of childishness; a veneer of sanctity or virtue. One can experience, joy or tears or consolation in their soul, but it can all be an illusion, and not truly rooted in repentance. It is for this reason that we so often backslide in the spiritual life. We do not let go of the attachments that we have to the things that lead us into sin. We may repent and go to confession, but within our hearts we still hold on to a multitude of things that give rise to temptation or that stimulate our inclination to particular sins. Fornication in particular is something that is seen as having great weight among the fathers because it is so tied to our very make up as human beings and to our bodily appetites and desires. We can fall into error in our thinking and be corrected of this error even when we cling to it with pride. But once we have acknowledged the error we are unlikely to return to it. However, when the sins of the flesh become tied up with our imagination and memory, and when we give ourselves over to the sin, the deeper the roots become. What is lodged in the imagination and memory is easily taken hold of again through fantasy, at first, and then finally an action. Therefore the sins the flesh often need the greatest commitment to ascetic disciplines in order to uproot them. We were told in the Scriptures that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent to bear it away. Similarly, there are things that we must be willing to cut out of our life in order to keep us from falling into the same sins again. Our desire and our courage in doing so, however, is often lacking.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:54 John Ingram: Greater Cincinnati/N KY
 
00:08:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 145 para 42
 
00:25:53 Ashley Kaschl: Is St. John saying this over sharing/emotionalism be a symptom of this sin?
 
00:25:53 Louise: Blind to consequences.
 
00:29:25 Louise: Hooking up maybe to avoid aloneness at all cost.
 
00:29:26 Debra: Hook Up culture isn't just on Universities
 
00:32:27 Rory: Being in the moment with prayer, incarnate with God, we are never alone, as a temple of the Holy Spirit
 
00:36:40 Rory: ?is sin a correction?
 
00:37:39 Anthony: When I look at the history of heresy, I see that mental and physical errors often go together.
 
00:39:00 Anthony: Examples that come to mind: Marcion & other Gnostics; Cathars; Lutherans; Munsterites
 
00:45:48 Louise: As a Catholic child, I was taught that we were forgiven if we recognize our fault, repent (suffer from having caused pain, which would reduce repetition), and to repair (in reality as much as possible). The last two requirements seem to be dismissed these days , especially the third one.
 
00:48:17 Ambrose Little, OP: It goes both ways. Some heretics go the way of
overly puritanical approaches to the Faith.
 
00:54:31 Ashley Kaschl: The thought troubles me, and there’s a lot more to be said, I think, but the penance of not being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist because of the sin of fornication makes a lot of sense. 
 
Being that we receive the whole Christ, if someone has developed a deeply rooted habit of fornication they would have a kind of morbid, contraceptive disposition of soul that says “I want the pleasure of receiving Christ in the Eucharist, but I do not want His effects.” Even if the soul is fighting against the sin, that person still needs to be freed from that disposition before seeking a union with God they have trained their body and, thus, their soul not to seek above all other things. Obviously it’s not so cut and dry but I can see what the footnote is saying 😅
 
00:54:38 Rory: ?are there degrees of repentence?
 
00:58:03 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "The thought troubles..." with 👍
 
00:59:45 sue and mark: communion is the medicine....  I think that I disagree
 
01:02:49 Anthony: In my opinion, that goes back to the Germanic we-gild, or man price to satisfy for offenses in place of taking a "pound of flesh" so to speak.  When the Roman Catholic Church became more of a Germanic entity, we used a Germanic example (in my opinion) of penance, and of Purgatory / indulgences.
 
01:02:59 Anthony: "wer-gild"
 
01:04:00 David Swiderski: I have to admit the desert fathers helped me tremendously as they have practical things to overcome temptations, situations or vices. I wish in the confessional there was more application of those especially to younger people who give up before knowing of these weapons in the spiritual battle.
 
01:04:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:23 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:32 Art: I recently heard about priests telling people in the confessional “Be brief, be contrite, and be gone”.
 
01:05:04 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:05 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:12 John Ingram: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:28 Bonnie Lewis: Yes, I had a priest say, "just get to the sins!"
 
01:06:29 Lyle: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:07:10 David Swiderski: The church as an ER and priest or elders as spiritual doctors
 
01:08:45 Eric Ewanco: I hate it when I go to a scheduled confession period in an unfamiliar church and no priest is there
 
01:09:34 Michael: Unfortunately, I have mostly seen the opposite problem. Exponentially more people going up for communion than are going to confession. I think many people are not well-catechized and don't realize the gravity of receiving communion without ever going to confession.
 
01:09:59 Ambrose Little, OP: Not our job to be judging others..
 
01:10:25 Michael: I don't mean to judge those people, I just think it is a big problem that so many are unaware. It isn't their fault
 
01:11:15 Michael: Precisely
 
01:13:17 Cindy Moran: Any thoughts about a book called The Philokalia and The Inner Life On Passions and Prayer written by Christopher Cook Psychiatrist
 
01:14:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:15 angelo: Thank you father David.
 
01:14:22 Michael: Thank you Father David
 
01:14:25 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:14:32 Jacqulyn: Thank you! Quite a blessing. :-)
 
01:14:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you always Father.
 
01:14:37 John Ingram: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:49 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:15:23 sue and mark: Good night and thank you.
 
01:15:27 Jeff O.: Amen, Thank you!
 
01:15:29 Debra: Thank you, for all you do!
 
01:15:29 Cindy Moran: Excellent session
 
01:15:31 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part IV

Piercing! The vision of a Saint becomes ever so sharp. Out of their own experience of the desert, and the spiritual warfare engaged in there, comes a wisdom that strikes, hopefully, our hearts. Our hearts can become hardened by being so long immersed in sin. When the sin becomes hardened and habitual, becomes a passion, it is not easy to break free from it. 
Yet words alone, even the words of the Saints, are unable to break us free. There must be within our hearts a faith and willingness to take hold of the grace of God that comes to us through Christ to enter into the fray, to fight the good fight of faith, and to engage fully in the ascetical life. 
Both the habit of sin and the temptation of the Evil One often keeps us mired deeply in darkness. Yet we must strive to let the little light that is given to us draw us forward and emboldened our hearts. A different vision of reality is set before us; one that has come into being through the Incarnation and the Paschal mystery. We are called, not simply to be good people and those of high natural virtue but rather sons and daughters of God. Christ’s virtue is to become our virtue. His strength must become our strength. This is not something that we seize upon with our own hands but receive with humility and gratitude. With these two virtues may we set out on the journey with an invincible hope.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:04:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 paragraph 31
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 para 31
 
00:23:03 Michael: Is there any truth to the idea that God is particularly merciful about "natural" sins? CS Lewis said something similar in Mere Christianity.
 
00:31:28 Anthony: I suggest we read the passage of the Woman caught in Adultery in the context of Susanna and the Elders.
 
00:53:09 Lawrence Martone: Sometimes we have to question if we are doing the right thing, but we don’t have a spiritual director.  Is there an equivalent of Ignatian Discernment methods with the Desert Fathers?
 
00:56:54 Daniel Allen: Is that type of humility why someone such as St Philip Neri can say (paraphrasing), I have done nothing good today I will begin again… and mean it? Because to the outside observer obviously St Philip did much good.
 
01:05:57 Brad Smith: Is this similar to Psalm 137:9 about dashing infants against the stone…i.e. dealing with the sin early and completely?
 
01:06:41 LauraLeigh Monterey: My Egyptian is food. :-) So, I am to turn the power behind that appetite toward its source, which is God, yes? Can you explain a little more what that means in practical terms? That is, how exactly does one "kill the Egyptian"? Would it depend on what the Egyptian is?
 
01:11:18 Ashley Kaschl: This makes me think a lot about a Christmas Carol when Scrooge is first visited by Marley and how he’s fearful of this chain wrapped all around his friend more so than the fact that he’s a ghost. And Marley asks him “do you know the weight and length of the chain you bear yourself?” And I think that’s a lot like this Egyptian and how we may not know we are slaves to our sin and wrapped in chains.
 
01:11:23 Anthony: Replying to "Is this similar to..."
 
That's what I was thinking.  I think the monks interpret it this way.
 
01:12:47 Cindy Moran: What is the title of Pope Shenouda's book?
 
01:13:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:19 angelo: Thank you!
 
01:14:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:14:27 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part III

How does one begin to speak about purity and chastity in an age that hyper-sensualizes the human experience?  When we define ourselves so tightly and, in particular, so tightly to disordered desire, how is it that we bear witness to and embrace the call of Saint John and the other fathers to purity? Part of the answer to these questions is to immerse ourselves in the vision of the fathers; their anthropology and psychology and the spirituality that shapes these things. However, this only begins to lead us to an understanding of who and what we have become in Christ.  If it remains purely notional we will inevitably be drawn back in to what the culture puts before us. What Christianity calls us to is to see ourselves only in light of Christ and to find meaning and identity in Him. Likewise, we must see the radical solidarity that exists between every one of us as human beings made in the image and likeness of God. We are called to a life of radical conversion and repentance.  When we look out into the world and see great evil or sin, our response must be to turn to God with even greater zeal and desire. We must embody the love, joy, peace, and purity of the kingdom. Anything less is going to ring hollow to the world. To speak of purity or chastity in simple moralistic or legalistic terms is to fail to understand what we have become in Christ. It is the Spirit of God that dwells within us and we are not called to embody natural virtue much less what private judgment puts forward as good. It is the beauty of Divine life that must shine forth in our every thought and action.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 142, para 19
 
00:30:23 Anthony: I kind of think I (we?) try too hard to be Christians, and that is a self-centered and very difficult focus.  It's not the way of easy relief of Christ's cross.  It's my cross.
 
00:31:39 Anthony: My pastor once mentioned how we make our own heavy, too heavy crosses.
 
00:33:50 Eric Ewanco: I try to project the seraph serpent mounted on a pole to the Eucharist lifted up during the liturgy, sending out healing to me from the crucifixion of Christ
 
00:50:56 Michael: Oh wow, I thought it was just a metaphor. I didn’t realize he was literally talking about bestiality.
 
00:51:29 angelo: Reacted to "Oh wow, I thought it..." with 👍
 
00:55:18 Ashley Kaschl: This isn’t necessarily related to chastity but there’s a book about how normal people became murderers during WWII called “Ordinary Men” and its incredibly humbling. I would definitely recommend it. There’s a quote that always sticks with me from the psychological study of genocide in that book that states “Evil that arises out of ordinary thinking and is committed by ordinary people is the norm, not the exception.” (Ervin Staub, author of “The Roots of Evil: The Origins of Genocide and other Group Violence”)
 
00:58:41 Anthony: I get this idea from E Michael Jones: "Sexual Liberation is a tool of Social Control."  He bases this on St. Augustine and events in world history which illustrate how sexuality has been used to enslave the imagination and soul.  Maybe that will help.
 
01:01:03 Louise: At an older age, there is an appeasement of the bodily
pulsions. Therefore, there is a lot of good to say about older age. I am thankful. Maybe it is partly due to my turning to the Beloved many years ago, repeating again and again in my Heart, ''There is no god but God.''
 
01:17:16 David: Isn't a lot of this the consequence of "Relativism". Feelings have replaced truth.
 
01:17:50 Louise: Otherwise, these people will sue you, as an honest clinician.
 
01:18:01 carol nypaver: True, David.
 
01:18:13 Ashley Kaschl: I wonder if it’s a step further than relativism. Vice has replaced virtue to the extent that it has become “virtuous” to extol it.
 
01:18:58 angelo: Thank you Father.
 
01:19:02 melissa kummerow: Thank you!!!!
 
01:19:05 David: Thank you father!
 
01:19:06 sue and mark: Good night everyone.  Thank you Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part II

The depth of the fathers’ understanding of the workings of the mind and the heart, the appetites and desires, is staggering. One of the great fruits of the ascetic life of the Desert fathers is what it reveals about the desert of the human heart. Jeremiah the prophet wrote: “The human heart is a treacherous thing.  Who can endure it“. How true this is! St. John Climacus gradually begins us to draw us in to the subtle workings of our bodily appetites, in particular those tied to sensuality. Our vision of ourselves, and others can become so easily distorted by our sin. We become unable to see the beauty not only of the world around us, but of the human person and every aspect of their being. We all use ourselves and others and the things of this world in a desperate attempt to fill a void within our hearts. We long for the love of God. Even the atheist, one who denies God with all their heart, experiences this longing. They may be completely unaware of its source but nonetheless desperately seek something to fill it. And in those times when we are not wrapped up in the attempt or the delusion of fullness, we experience depression. There is no human being that does not experience isolation and the pain of loneliness even when surrounded by others and an abundance of worldly goods. St. John painstakingly reveals to us the nature of the struggle for purity of heart in order that we might be freed from seeking for the love and fullness anywhere else than in the bosom of God. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:01:25 Kevin Burke: I am just getting started on this forum and really enjoying it, I plan to catch up with the previous lessons as well.
 
Can you tell me what version of the book that we are using in this forum? I have the Paulist version but it’s very different and I would like to get the precise same version.
 
00:03:14 Adam Paige: Replying to "I am just getting st..."
 
The Holy Transfiguration Monastery version we use is a revision of this earlier 1959 translation: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf
 
00:31:20 Anthony: St. Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs does a very good job of drawing holy innocence from a love story.
 
00:34:04 Anthony: Replying to "St. Gregory of Nar..."
 
"The Blessing of Blessings: Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs" Translated from the AArmenian by Roberta Ervine, Cistercian Publications, (c) 2007
 
00:34:48 Louise Gaston: Would you say that purity of heart coupled with an observing ego allows for a sensitive detachment and discernment? With God's grace too?
 
00:34:51 angelo: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:38:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "greater still is the man unhurt by all he has looked upon." says this translation...
 
00:39:24 Rodrigo Castillo: The Blessing of Blessings: Grigor of Narek's Commentary
on the Song of Songs (Cistercian Studies books) (Volume 215) https://a.co/d/7ZqSBAW
 
00:40:44 angelo: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:41:31 Louise Gaston: Would you say that one's engagement in pornography, gluttony, etc. is basically a defense against the pain of our longing for God's presence?
 
00:45:59 Adam Paige: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:46:08 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:50:07 Anthony: Fr. Barnabas Powell (Greek Orthodox) has a saying "You are not your thoughts."  I think that has a place in psychological reflection
 
00:50:30 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:52:18 Sean: In ‘Christ — Our Pascha’, the Ukrainian Catholic catechism, it says: 
 
“When a person in prayer meets God in the depths of one's heart, one already here on earth directly experiences that which the apostle Paul describes as seeing God ‘face to face’ (1 Cor 13:12). The person ‘sees’ the One in whom he or she has believed. The person abides in God's presence. The apostle Paul compares this new state of the person to a ‘seeing’ of God…it is a ‘seeing’ of the Invisible One.“ And Metropolitan Hierotheos in ‘Orthodox Psychotherapy’ writes: “The pure heart is the organ of knowledge, the organ of Orthodox epistemology.” 
 
Thank you, Father☦️
 
https://eeparchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Christ-our-Pascha-Catechism-of-the-Ukrainian-Catholic-Church-by-Comission-for-the-Catehism-z-lib.org_.pdf
 
00:53:42 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:59:12 Anthony: So truth must be, as Soren Kierkegaard said, Objective-subjective.  The internal assent must be actively given to the external reality.  This is how the Blessed Virgin MAry lived.
 
00:59:46 Adam Paige: Reacted to "So truth must be, as..." with 🇩🇰
 
01:01:13 Louise Gaston: Difficult question - Is Christ in the Eucharist when it is
consecrated by ''funny'' modernist priests? (those with an irrespectful attitude)
 
01:04:47 angelo: Fr. I have a question: self-flagellation as a mortification is still be helpful in this battle? I heard  that it is no longer permitted by the church.
 
01:07:15 David: This seems different by culture. The chapel of N. Sra of Guadalupe still washes blood on the cobblestones from the knees of faithful entering the chapel
 
01:08:08 David: Opus Dei still uses the cilus
 
01:10:16 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:10:18 Sean: Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:10:19 David: Thank you father!
 
01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:10:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part IV, and Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part I

Tonight we made the transition from St. John’s Step on Gluttony and its offspring to our discussion of Purity and Chastity in Step number 15. Again, as we read slowly through the text and begin to unpack it, we begin to see the larger picture; the image of humanity redeemed. We see what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God, and the experience of embracing our full dignity and identity. 
What is held out to us is an incorruptible freedom and joy as our love becomes ordered toward God. We begin to see the true beauty of the things of the world, of others, and of God himself. As I’ve often mentioned, the desert fathers were the first depth psychologists; they present to us the path that brings healing of soul. They see the human person in his fullness and we see in their writings such our true dignity and destiny. 
Our struggle often is found in the fact that we’ve never come to taste that freedom, the joy, the capacity to love unimpeded by our sin. The ascetic life is not about endurance, or personal health or the ordering of our life so much as it is about the desire for God, his love, and to share in the life that he makes possible for us. It has been said that “Beauty will save the world”. In the writings of the fathers, we are called to see this beauty first in the person of Christ; and in and through him the beauty of the life that is held out to us. May we desire it with all of our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Who? Author?
 
00:12:44 Anthony: Pope Shenouda
 
00:13:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: THanks
 
00:13:35 FrDavid Abernethy: page 138
 
00:13:38 FrDavid Abernethy: no 32
 
00:14:03 Anthony: If y'all have Coptic Orthodox parishes nearby with food festivals .... GO!
 
00:23:15 Cindy Moran: This reminds me of: the kingdom suffers violence and the violent seize it by force--Mt 11:12
 
00:25:17 Debra: What Step and paragraph
 
00:26:44 Lori Hatala: step 14 para 36
 
00:26:55 Debra: Replying to "step 14 para 36"
 
Thank you!
 
00:32:35 Anthony: I get it, but cooking is an art.  Food is beautiful.  Nothing God made - matter or form - is evil.  What we consider to be food needs reform.  Our habits need reform to appreciate the art.  But I'm a bit concerned that some of these fathers are a presenting the stick too much and the carrot to little.
 
00:39:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "I get it, but cookin..."
 
The carrot is food, which is bad. ;)
 
00:39:39 angelo: Reacted to "The carrot is food, ..." with 😂
 
00:40:08 Anonymous Sinner: The movie Babette’s Feast comes to mind
 
00:42:27 Anthony: In Sicilian, the word for this kind of boorish glutton is gavonne (cafone).
 
00:43:47 Bonnie Lewis: I love that movie.  It's beautiful.
 
00:47:27 Anthony: I don't suppose I pray as much as I "should," but I have a wondrous happiness when creating like cooking
 
00:48:58 Bridget McGinley: Father this is a little off topic… was St John Cassian a priest? Also, Do you know of any books which talk about his devotion to St Mary Magdalene? I recently returned from France/Spain where I learned St John founded a monastery adjacent to her cave in 415. The Cassians protected her cave for hundreds of years. The Dominicans have had it since about the 1200’S. It just seems like he understood penance on the same level as she did.
 
00:49:54 wayne: Well we now have foods that create little preparation and in turn we have lost the art form of preparation and also we don't have the sense of where our food comes from.
 
00:50:57 Bridget McGinley: Sorry I know it was a little off topic.
 
00:51:39 angelo: That is true Father that the meal table is no longer table of sharing, I live and I am from a family first immigrant of this country and we all have jobs in different shifts and we don't see each other, eating alone is so sad that leads to eat more and more and watch tv until we doze off.
 
00:52:02 Anthony: Replying to "I get it, but cook..."
 
Carrot slaw, carrot cake....
 
00:52:10 Anthony: Reacted to "The carrot is food..." with 😂
 
00:52:21 Anthony: Reacted to "Well we now have f..." with 👍
 
00:52:39 Anthony: Reacted to "That is true Fathe..." with ❤️
 
00:54:34 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: In Eastern monasteries, the refectory walls are covered with iconography.
 
00:54:44 Anthony: Reacted to "In Eastern monaste..." with ❤️
 
00:54:49 Vicki Nichols: Replying to "Father this is a lit..." 
 
Saint Mary Magdalene by Fr. Davidson is a good book
 
00:55:17 angelo: Reacted to "In Eastern monasteri..." with ❤️
 
00:55:33 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Saint Mary Magdalene…" with ❤️
 
01:18:43 Ashley Kaschl: It’s probably obvious, but this section makes me think of the Beatitudes. Aristotle had a maxim that said, “As a person is, so does he see.” And I think that once we are granted the grace necessary to slowly make our hearts undivided in love, then too, do we become pure of heart, and our vices are chipped away to make room for virtue so that we might, at the end of our lives, see God face to face. “Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”
 
01:19:37 Anthony: Reacted to "It’s probably obv..." with ❤️
 
01:19:48 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
 
01:20:09 angelo: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:18 Debra: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:21:38 angelo: thank you
 
01:21:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:51 David: Thank you father!
 
01:21:52 Bonnie Lewis: good night Father.
 
01:21:56 Jeff O.: Thank you! God bless your pilgrimage Angela!
 
01:21:58 Rachel : Thank
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent- Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part III

How striking it is to hear the nature of the struggle with gluttony and the need for fasting spoken of with such zeal and clarity! Such practices have for the most part fallen by the wayside or have been minimized to such an extent as to be equally nonexistent. The unfortunate fruit of this is that we often have never tasted the freedom and the strength comes through ordering our appetite for food. Thus, the humbling of the mind and the body and the deepening of the experience of prayer through the stilling of the thoughts is also rarely experienced. 
We need to take hold of the wisdom of the fathers and their zeal that will allow us to put it into practice.  St. John tells us that when God sees the movement of the mind abs the heart towards Him through these practices that He will aid us with His grace. 
We also see that the fathers have a very clear sense of the workings of the human mind and how we experience our bodily appetites. Their observations of what takes place on a physiological level are astute and reveal the depth of their experience. All of it is meant to fashion within our hearts a renewed desire for the ascetic life. 
We must see that which is uniquely an distinctively Christian about these practices. For while St. John and the other fathers speak of them so frequently, they also understand that their beginning and end is found in one’s relationship with God. The desire for God’s love must compel us. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136. paragraph 17
 
00:11:08 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136 paragraph 17
 
00:17:21 Bridget McGinley: Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things- Philippians 3:19
 
00:23:45 Emma C: I have a question!
 
00:24:02 Emma C: I was wondering can fasting help with other attachments to the world like shopping?
 
00:24:10 Brett Pavia, BCMA: I have a question …
 
00:24:15 Emma C: Excessive shopping*
 
00:36:18 Rachel : That's a fantastic idea.
 
00:36:40 Anthony: The back of the Publican's Prayer Book has a guide to ease into fasting, written by Patriarch Gregorios III.
Also, Italian food is a LOT of peasant food (cucina povera).
 
00:41:40 Rachel : You have good friends. In Cali, you can find something at a steakhouse though.
 
00:42:12 Rachel : "Crab feed"
 
00:42:19 Anthony: This one does.  Fish is usually penance.  So is soup. ;)
 
00:42:21 Ambrose Little, OP: I dunno. Ours is plain, and I don’t like fish. 😄 😄
 
00:42:27 Ren Witter: Reacted to "I dunno. Ours is pla..." with 😄
 
00:42:44 Ren Witter: Yea, I’ve smelled some fish fries that seem pretty penitential
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: Ora et labora?
 
01:01:31 Anthony: Prayer is serious. It takes work.  A person can stay up and watch entertainment, but it isn't work - but stay up too late and you feel horrible.  Maybe it's a counterfeit to work to make the work of a vigil distasteful.
 
01:06:06 Anthony: Same here, Brett
 
01:08:01 David: A priest suggested finding a rock or something to hold in one hand during prayer. I have a rock from a Jesuit retreat house and it helps get my mind focused. It becomes a habit when held my mind goes to God.
 
01:15:31 Debra: Reacted to "Yea, I’ve smelled so..." with 😆
 
01:15:51 Mitch: On our commitment to Christ I’ve often felt like I have spiritual amnesia. I feel at home when in the spiritual work and then I go out into the world with its suffering again and forget my true home. I feel like my task each day is to remember the truth
 
01:19:33 Sean: Met. Kallistos of blessed memory said that unceasing prayer is not something that we say from time to time, but rather something that we are, all of the time (even during sleep)☦️
 
01:20:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Met. Kallistos of bl..." with 👍
 
01:22:29 Mitch: Thank you very much Happy Easter/Pascha to everyone!
 
01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you!🙂 Happy Easter everyone
 
01:22:34 Sean: Thank you, Father
 
01:22:36 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Easter
 
01:22:36 angelo: thank you
 
01:22:37 Rachel : Thank you!
 
01:22:43 David: Thank you!
 
01:22:43 Deiren: Happy Easter
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part II

We continued to our reflection on step number 14 - gluttony, or that “clamorous mistress, the stomach.”  We are being exposed to the wisdom of the fathers, so deeply rooted in their experience of human nature and how it has been effected by sin. St. John, in his typical fashion, reveals to us the subtleties (psychological, emotional and spiritual) of how we are deceived by the evil one and how our bodily appetites can be used against us. It is precisely because our appetite for food is natural and needed for sustenance that it is something that can be used against us and so powerfully. 
This step shows how St. John and the other fathers were not only spiritual warriors, but the first depth psychologists. They knew how the mind and the heart work. We are easily deceived and easily moved to rationalize our use of food. Perhaps what is most significant is that St. John shows us how essential this practice of fasting and abstinence is in our spiritual life. We can’t be dabblers or minimalists. Because it is such a part of who we are, our appetite for food must be formed and shaped both by discipline and by the grace of God. What and how we eat is often a reflection of our emotional state a response to a need and desire for consolation. Rather than nourishing ourselves upon the love of God, we will choose some thing that offers immediate satisfaction - even though we know it is ever so temporary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:56 Anthony: Months ago we talked about the monk who cut off his genitals, to great spiritual and physical harm.  Fasting is a healthy way of cutting off an appetite; it cannot be complete, since that is absolutely repulsive to natural law.  It encourages both cutting something off and moderation in approach.  Maybe that is a reason why fasting is a help for both gluttony and lust.
 
00:24:00 Anthony: In addition, fasting is accessible to both men and women - a remedy for all.
 
00:25:03 angelo: Reacted to "Months ago we talked..." with 👍
 
00:28:20 sue and mark: am I correct in thinking that this can be modified for special health needs effected by diet.
 
00:28:40 Sean: I recently watched a good lecture on Evagrius, “Evagrius the Monk and the Care of Souls” by Dr. Robin Darling Young at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary: https://youtu.be/Lp-EpQB_A6U
I didn’t know that he was condemned along with Origen. I have only heard good things. Thank you, Father.
 
00:38:41 David: Aren't a lot of perceived contradictions looking at absolutes rather than stages and a process. As a child uses training wheels, then has someone behind him, then only a flat road. Over the period of time and conquering basic steps bigger challenges can be adopted.
 
00:41:00 sue and mark: Reacted to "Aren't a lot of perc..." with 👍
 
00:46:47 Anthony: So, Mardi Gras can actully harm the spiritual goal of Lent, but Meatfare then cheesefare is to enhance the Lent
 
00:47:52 Jean-Baptiste Giroux: There are many people these days practicing prolong fasting up to 72 hrs. Should that be  encouraged?
 
00:48:11 Patrick Caruso: Fr. David, could you please speak to how one should incorporate fasting and/or restraint on Sundays, solemnities, etc? With the approaching Easter season, how is one to best continue forward with some of the fasting they may have been practicing during Lent in the Easter season?
 
00:49:31 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There are many peopl…" with 👍
 
00:49:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. David, could you…" with 👍
 
00:53:48 David: In the early church wasn't Wed and Friday all year what Christians were know for in fasting?
 
01:05:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "In the early church ..." with 👍
 
01:05:35 Brad Smith: If the “warrior-ascetic” is distinct from the “perfect ascetic,” is Climacus implicitly warning the warrior to be careful not to delight to the point of succumbing to pride in there heat of battle when successful?
 
01:14:54 carol: “You are she who is not, I AM He Who Is.” to St.Catherine of Siena
 
01:18:16 David: Fear of the consequences of our sins? And acknowledging he is also All Just, a Judge? Ideally fear of disappointing God through love is best but sometimes fear of consequence can be good at times.
 
01:21:22 Anthony: Wisdom Chapter 12 - God tries to correct people by degrees.
 
01:23:22 carol nypaver: Well said, Father!
 
01:23:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:24:10 Krissy: Thanks!
 
01:24:49 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:24:53 David: Thanks you and bless you Father!
 
01:24:55 angelo: thank you
 
01:24:55 sue and mark: good night an dGod bless you father.
 
01:24:58 Brad Smith: Thank you
 
01:24:59 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part I

Tonight we picked up with Step, 14 on “that clamorous mistress, the stomach“. Climacus begins to draw us into a discussion of one of the most important and neglected spiritual practices - fasting and the struggle with gluttony. 
This is a struggle, Saint John tells us, that remains with us through our entire life. Our desire for food or our misuse of food is something that is part of the very fabric of our life. It is a bodily appetite. Not unlike other appetites, it must be ordered toward the good or in the way that is in accord with the wisdom of God. 
Yet, John tells us, gluttony is hypocrisy of the stomach. In a sense it deceives us. Even when we are filled, it tells us that we are empty, and even when we are bursting, it “cries out that it is hungry.“.  It also leads us to devise seasonings, and sweet and rich dishes. The moment that we think that we have control of it, it shows itself in another area of our life. Unchecked, it leads to something even more serious - fornication. If we do not order this basic appetite for food, then we are going to be disordered and the use of our other bodily appetites, including our sexual appetite. And so, St. John tells us that he who coddles the body makes it wilder.  If we do not control it, then it will overcome us. 
If we are self-aware, we know we eat for many different reasons. On an emotional level, we often eat to console ourselves or because we are feeling aggressive or anxiety. We distract ourselves and deal with feelings of emptiness by filling our bodies with food. There are many ways that we convince ourselves that restraining ourselves is inappropriate. For example, we tell ourselves that hospitality demands that we break our fasting practices. Rather than being honest with ourselves and others, we freely let go of these disciplines, not out of love for others but to satisfy our baser needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Bonnie Lewis: I agree wholeheartedly!
 
00:15:46 Bonnie Lewis: Let's do it.
 
00:16:35 CMoran: Was it Rod Dreher?
 
00:36:57 Anthony: On Fasting, I recall sayings from people like St. Paisios to the effect that we live like pagans since we neglect prayer and fasting.  I wonder if there is an inverse correlation between a failure to fast and pray and the increased use of unwholesome images.
 
00:38:05 Jeff O.: Is there a reason or importance in the way Climacus orders anger and acedia before gluttony/fornication/greed etc on the ladder? I just find it interesting the order of things and the way he presents the vices
 
00:42:30 David Swiderski: What is the best practice in fasting. I fasted with a Syrian roommate a couple years he for Ramadan me for Lent. The hardest was no water all day which could be dangerous. What was strange most Muslims gain weight and have huge feasts every night and before the sunrose would drink juices to excess.
 
00:53:24 Anthony: I was talking about Easter Grain pie within the last 90 minutes....
 
00:56:49 Eric Ewanco: If we go over to someone's house during a fasting/abstinence period, how should we handle this if they plan food that breaks the discipline?
 
00:57:07 angelo: Reacted to "If we go over to som..." with 👍
 
00:58:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Well, our Lord did tell us to not appear to be fasting. 🙂
 
00:58:37 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Well, our Lord did t..." with 👏🏻
 
01:01:08 Ambrose Little, OP: “When you give, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” There does seem to be an impetus to “hide” our discipline and good works, to avoid pride.
 
01:01:14 Bonnie Lewis: excellent Father
 
01:01:17 Brad Smith: Your reference to hospitality as an excuse for gluttony seems the height of fornication (paragraph 1) as it is essentially to use the other person as a means to our own ends; gluttony is to misuse God’s good creation for our self-centered ends. Yes?
 
01:02:07 Brad Smith: I meant paragraph 5…Brad
 
01:02:07 Ambrose Little, OP: So we can’t win. LOL
 
01:04:37 CMoran: A few of my casual Catholic friends think that no meat on Friday has been done away with after the reforms.
 
01:05:43 CMoran: Not even knowing that some other penance is required.
 
01:08:28 Helena Babington Guiles: He who is in us is greater than he who is  in the world…and when we commune with Him within, His  nourishment exceeds any other.
 
01:10:49 Ren Witter: I am going to someone’s house for dinner tomorrow, and they already know I am vegetarian so I was going to just go and eat what was there, but I literally just texted them to say I can’t have eggs or cheese 😄. It makes me feel strangely anxious 🤣 I also told them to blame Father David 😄
 
01:11:09 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "I am going to someon..." with 😂
 
01:11:20 angelo: can we replace fasting with good works? This was my experience years ago when I was aspirant in a religious community.
 
01:14:07 Eric Ewanco: You can't "beat your body and make it your slave" (St. Paul) by doing good works
 
01:14:13 carol nypaver: We should not make others “suffer” because of our sacrifices. Right?
 
01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I thought that the recommendation for a fast day was two small meals OR one large one, is that what you meant?
 
01:16:18 Debra: I gave up coffee on Lent...and my family suffered lol
 
01:17:16 Eric Ewanco: @rebecca the requirement is one meal, and up to two smaller meals not adding up to another meal as needed to maintain your strength
 
01:17:18 Ren Witter: Replying to "I thought that the r..."
 
In the Latin Rite the official rule is “one large meal, and two small meals that do not together equal one large meal” and yes, its pretty lame :-D
 
01:17:25 Ren Witter: Reacted to "@rebecca the require..." with 👍
 
01:17:49 carol nypaver: When I have to prepare a meal for someone who is “wheat-free,” meat-free, dairy-free makes me not want to host them.  They don’t have allergies, just sacrificing these things.  That makes me “suffer."
 
01:17:58 Bonnie Lewis: No, don't Father.  Amen
 
01:18:25 Rebecca Thérèse: @Ren thanks
 
01:20:05 Ambrose Little, OP: Here’s the USCCB on the topic: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence  
 
The focus seems to be about internalizing and owning our asceticism (as Christian adults) rather than having it spoon fed to us in a one-size-fits-all approach. But the important part of the message seems to have been lost on many.
 
01:21:05 Eric Ewanco: "many" is an understatement
 
01:21:30 Bonnie Lewis: I never hear this spoken on from the pulpit.
 
01:22:17 Ren Witter: Replying to "When I have to prepa..."
 
Its actually a pretty reasonable thought - “don’t host them” when I think about it. If I had friends, and they were strictly kosher for instance, it would be basically impossible for me to host them because I don’t know how to cook that way. At that point, its better if we go to a kosher restaurant, or if I simply go to their home and play with the kids while they cook.
 
01:22:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:26 CMoran: Thank you Father...excellent session...most
necessary for me!
 
01:23:35 angelo: Thank you
 
01:23:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Debra: Thank you Father! This was really good!
 
01:23:47 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:25:02 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIII: On Despondency

How do we talk about and understand despondency? I never heard about the word or the nature of the vice until I was in my 20s and after having read the fathers. And yet we hear from the fathers that it is the greatest and gravest of the eight capital vices. It afflicts the soul in such a way that it draws it into darkness. The soul loses its capacity to see the presence of God or to love the things of God. It becomes most dangerous when we are engaged in the spiritual life in isolation; either as those who live the life of a hermit, or as those who see the spiritual life as a private affair.  We live in a radical solidarity with each other, and with God. Our understanding of this, and our embrace of that reality may be the one thing that keeps us from falling into a general death. 
This demon uses the most subtle forms of temptation to make us lax in our spiritual practice or come to despise it all together. There are very few remedies for it for this reason. One must remember death and the brevity of our life. We must understand that we are in the end times and see the urgency of the moment. We must also cling to obedience; placing our thoughts before another and allow them to guide us when we cannot see the path before us. 
Prayer filled with hope, St. John tells us, is the only thing that brings this vice to utter death. Only when we cling to He who is life and love and hope and let go of the illusion that we can simply endure the spiritual trials of this world on our own will this vice be conquered. But once it is conquered, a person has come to experience all that is good; they are prepared for every spiritual battle that lies ahead.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:17 David: Question on translation: Acedia wouldn't this be closer to insouciant or melancholy rather than despondency?
 
00:35:37 Daniel Allen: Despondency is a child of talkativeness but community life is opposed to it? That seems sort of contradictory.
 
00:37:21 Anthony: The spirit of despondency also perverts a concept of what it means to be "elect": I am the only true one, everyone is against me."  That's not a good place to be.
 
00:37:51 Daniel Allen: As a follow up it seems that despondency is always a lurking threat.
 
00:38:32 Daniel Allen: Ok that clears it up thank you
 
00:41:21 Cindy Moran: Noonday Devil from Ps 90:6 [DRV]
 
00:43:22 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Also, many monks would not eat before 3 pm so beginning around midday hunger and hungers may start.
 
00:46:55 Anthony: The dinner bell represents hope that suffering will end.
 
00:59:02 Kathy: What do you mean by deification?
 
01:00:26 Eric Ewanco: Deification is become by grace what Christ was by nature -- becoming God-like, sharing in the divinity of Christ as he shared in our humanity, being partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4)
 
01:01:26 Anthony: A great Roman Catholic imagery / interpretation of deification is in Dante's "Paradiso," especially the later cantos.
 
01:02:14 Kathy: Thanks
 
01:06:45 Daniel Allen: St Therese - “May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be.”
 
01:06:59 Kristen Brotemarkle: beautiful quote, thanks for sharing that. ^
 
01:09:55 Liz: Sorry, what´s the name of the author Father is talking
about?
 
01:10:26 Anthony: Paul Evdekimov
 
01:10:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Paul Evdokimov
 
01:10:35 Liz: Thank you!!!
 
01:18:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Gender equality. Very modern.
 
01:20:56 Jeff O.: It seems like despondency (and gluttony as well) have a tendency or propensity to draw us towards numbing…which, paired with the nature of our culture which attempts to provide numbing or comforting in all things seems like an almost double whammy of sorts…
 
01:21:34 Anthony: Reacted to "It seems like desp..." with 👍
 
01:24:21 Kristen Brotemarkle: Reacted to "It seems like despon..." with 👍
 
01:37:38 Art: Got me too!
 
01:38:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:38:53 Rodrigo Castillo: That is a great idea!  The forum!
 
01:39:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...rich teaching tonight.
 
01:39:57 Jeff O.: This was great! Thank you.
 
01:40:07 David: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XII: On Lying

Tonight we read Step number 12 on Lying. Surprisingly this has always been a challenging step to read and to read as a group. Immediately our minds begin to swirl with the costs of loving the Truth and understanding that Truth is a person. Our starting point in such discussions is often examples that are extreme; things or circumstances that people might face within this life where lying might be justified. St. John addresses this and much more within the step. However, one has to be willing to suspend judgment and allow St. John to guide us along a path that deepens our sensitivity in regards to the Truth as a whole. Our starting point must be Christ. We must begin to understand that lying is a sin against charity, and to lie when making a vow or an oath is a denial of God himself. St. John understands very well that the Evil One can use something as innocent and enjoyable as humor to justify and to legitimize lying.  Yet, John tells us that there are no small lies and once spoken they have an effect upon ourselves and others. They diminish the spirit of mourning; that is, compunction within the human heart. In doing so they distract us from the remembrance of God and the things of God. We must remember that God has given us a conscience, a means of knowing the truth with Him. This is what we must form through the gospel and through our participation in the life of Christ. We must also remember that the Evil One is the Father of Lies and will use a lie under the pretext of protecting others. In the face of this, St. John tells us, “when we are completely cleansed of lying, then we can resort to it, but only with fear and as occasion demands.” Only when the heart has been completely purified, where there is no love of falsehood and where there is the presence of great discernment, can such a decision be made. To love truth, St. John tells us, is the root of every good because it is to love Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:04 Anthony Rago: I've also been thinking that our bodies and societies are parables of truth; and we can be lying by engaging in bad lifestyles.
 
00:37:35 Anthony Rago: I can imagine a confessor becoming very exasperated if we treat all this as confessable sins; and it would be very wearing on all of us.
 
00:39:28 David Swiderski: Like many other things isn't discernment take a place here. Is this so people will think I am funny (pride), will this hurt someone, will it erode trust (the cost of lies) or lead to a habit?
 
00:39:39 Anthony Rago: That makes sense, thanks
 
00:40:57 Cindy Moran: Corrie ten Boom  lied to the Nazis when they asked if jews were in the house. This is ok?
 
00:44:09 Ren Witter: I feel like this is a really hard one. Intellectually, I actually feel like it is easy to understand. Emotionally, it kind of feels like one of those instances where being Christian can feel like a “kill-joy” to put it in a light way. Maybe the immense anxiety I feel in response to this is coming from the fear that being a Christian means no joy or every-day happiness. Its weird because I know that that isn’t true, but sometimes it can be hard to reconcile the lived experience of Christianity with the things the Fathers write.
 
00:46:34 Debra: Replying to "Corrie ten Boom  lie..."
 
I've read a priest's response to this, is Yes, it's ok; because the Nazis didn't have a right to what's going on in their home
That we have dignity, and a right to privacy
 
I'm interested to hear what Fr Abernethy says 😄
 
00:55:06 Anthony Rago: With humor - movies, comedy routines, Facebook - it is easy to go along, and then the story teller sneaks in covert of blatant evil things, and "bam," there they are in the head, coming to mind in an ambush when they are most unwelcome.
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Ok so this may be making a little more sense to me. If the concern is with Truth, and Truth is a person, then we can have a tendency to come between Truth and another person (between the other and his remembrance of Truth Himself), which sort of reminds me of two parts of the Gospel - better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause the fall of one of these little ones, and also, what God has joined let no man divide. Neither are traditionally applied to this type of thought, but if by our jesting, and always (or often) making light of things we can get between a person and his remembrance of God (or mourning), then in a way we are doing just that on a spiritual level, dividing the person from his remembrance of God. We can (generally unintentionally) get between God and another person, and generally to pump up our own ego. The lying part makes sense, it’s the joking that’s hard to get.
 
01:11:37 Jacqulyn: Proverbs 26:18-19 - Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death is one who deceives their neighbor and says, "I was only joking."
 
01:15:40 Debra: Cindy Moran, up above, asked about that very point
 
01:20:23 David Swiderski: The trap of whataboutism deflects from a general truth
 
01:23:09 Bonnie Lewis: So I will only be finally cleansed in Purgatory?
 
01:23:49 Debra: In vino veritas
 
01:24:08 Anthony Rago: Greek Text of this chapter is here: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BE/%CE%9B%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%99%CE%92
I can barely read Greek and can't now locate the word "torture."
 
01:25:16 Ambrose Little, OP: About being jovial, I have a fondness for this part of St. Thomas Aquinas’ prayer “for ordering a life wisely” (notably the last three lines):
 
O Lord my God, make me
          submissive without protest,
          poor without discouragement,
          chaste without regret,
          patient without complaint,
          humble without posturing,
          cheerful without frivolity,
          mature without gloom,
          and quick-witted without flippancy.
 
Being dour and scolding is not good, neither is flippancy and frivolity. Cheerfulness is a good thing within measure.
 
01:25:32 Anthony Rago: "agoneia"
 
01:25:49 Debra: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:25:50 Daniel Allen: I think one thing I take from this is that I often don’t consider the significance of my own words, and that words have greater significance than generally thought
 
01:26:08 carol nypaver: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:09 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "About being jovial, …" with 🔥
 
01:26:25 Cath Lamb: Reacted to "I think one thing I ..." with ❤️
 
01:27:19 Anthony Rago: Reacted to "About being jovial..." with ❤️
 
01:27:21 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father
 
01:27:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:27:42 Art: Thank you!
 
01:27:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Good to be with you all.
 
01:27:59 Bonnie Lewis: Prayers of course!
 
01:29:15 Bonnie Lewis: that's right because I received an email.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XI: On Talkativeness and Silence

Tonight, we read Step number 11 on “talkativeness and silence.”  Fittingly, it is very brief, if not the briefest of all of the steps of The Ladder. This brevity is St. John’s way of teaching us that so much of our speech involves vainglory; putting ourselves on display. We seek through it to step out of ourselves; betraying the painful experience we have as human beings of our lack of identity.  God has created us for himself. He has created us in his image and likeness precisely that we might not experience ourselves in isolation, but rather in communion. However, to enter into communion with God means to step out of our limited ways of perceiving the world around us and reality as a whole. This means allowing God, through the silence,to draw us in faith into the experience of His life, light and love.  To give ourselves over to talkativeness is to find ourselves dissipated. Our desire for God cools and the emptiness that we feel drives us to fill our lives with anything and everything so that we do not feel alone. Despite having God dwelling within us, once we lose sight of him, silence becomes an enemy. Therefore, John tells us that we must foster silence as a habit. We must allow God to show us its value, and what it makes possible for us. The first step is to create external silence. Once we have done this, we often see the unsettledness of our minds and hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:45 Cindy Moran: Is your patron saint Matthew?
 
00:15:18 John & Heather: Do you mind mentioning what edition this group uses?
 
00:15:54 Debra: I saw your post on FB about it
 
00:16:41 John & Heather: Replying to "Do you mind mentioni..."
 
Great...thank you.
 
00:16:43 Cindy Moran: I really liked Ren's presentation on the prayer rope
 
00:17:38 FrDavid Abernethy: Yes.  Excellent.  She makes the most exquisite prayer ropes as well.
 
00:17:51 FrDavid Abernethy: Maybe she will put up the website address.
 
00:27:32 Eric Ewanco: My translation says "foe of license" instead of "enemy of freedom of speech"
 
00:41:56 Bonnie Lewis: This is why adoration before the Blessed Sacrament is such a beautiful gift where silence is filled with God's love for us.
 
00:43:12 Vicki Nichols: Would this silence include silencing the "inner chatter" of your thoughts or is it only external silence?
 
00:53:28 Rebecca Thérèse: I've found that people who chatter continuously don't care if you're listening or not so I can zone out!
 
00:54:01 wayne: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂
 
00:55:21 iPhone: Amen
 
00:56:08 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I've found that peop..."
with 😂
 
00:58:48 iPhone: Totally
 
00:59:06 Ambrose Little, OP: My in-laws feel that way about visiting here—the kiddos are a constant background buzzing. 🙂 You can get acclimated..
 
00:59:19 Eric Ewanco: How do we in the world balance silence with the cultivation of valuable relationships in life, for example at work or whatever? In other words, how do we discern the threshold of silence to maintain -- there is the absolute silence of a monk, and the rambling of the garroulous, where do we draw the line?
 
01:00:17 Debra: I wear hearing aids, but only if I'm going somewhere were I HAVE to listen...like Mass, or meetings
As soon as I'm out of that meeting, I take out my aids, because the world is such a noisy place!!
 
01:00:54 Debra: Reacted to "My in-laws feel that..." with 😁
 
01:08:21 iPhone: + 1
 
01:12:20 Anthony Rago: Being someone who does work from home, and lives alone, the silence does not feel too great all the time.  Only the deep silence when in my workshop or working in my kitchen or dining room or times like that is satisfying.
 
01:12:49 Debra: So much ambient noise...Like you mentioned, noise does create anxiety
I can literally feel tension leave, when I take my hearing aids out.
 
01:13:18 Debra: Reacted to "Being someone who do..." with 🤗
 
01:16:40 iPhone: Making a note of it
 
01:16:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:48 Debra: Thanks be to God
 
Thank you! Good night!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part II

This evening we continued and completed Step number 10 on “slander and calumny.”  Something very special emerges about John in the writing of this step. We see something very personal about John’s capacity to love and his purity of heart. He acknowledges his own struggle with judging others as sinners, when in reality they were pure of heart in secret. Thus, John’s repeated counsel is not to judge at all; even when we see things with a kind of clarity. We often have blind spots and dark spots in our evaluation of the others. Beyond this, the Evil One puts before us smoke, if you will, making us think that there is sin present where none exist. 
All that we are allowed to do is to love others. This means that we always attribute their sin to the action of demons. We are to look for the good in others and look for ways that we can support and lift them up if they are struggling. This means setting aside the morbid delight that we take in judging and the feeling of emotional power that we think it gives us over and against them. We must acknowledge the radical solidarity that exist between us and foster a spirit of generosity towards each other. To seize for ourselves a prerogative that belongs only to God is ruinous to the soul. May God preserve us!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:23:24 Bridget McGinley: Father, sorry...little long....I just wanted to follow up from last week with a comment/question. I was not able to type this fast enough. It was in relation to what you were saying about being serious and stern in presenting the Faith. You mentioned about your early sermon and how it was perceived by the college kids. I used to be pretty sanguine. Life has taken it’s toll. I once heard Bishop Sheen say something that was pretty profound. He stated, “Christ had many emotions that were written about in the Bible but never did he smile or laugh.” Bishop Sheen stated that He is saving those for us in Heaven. Looking at Step 10 point 2 many people nowadays are pretty “shameless and very happy” and it is hard for me to find smiles and joy surrounded by the deluge. In tip-toeing around the obvious moral problems these days how does one escape mental slander which sometimes manifests as verbal slander? And how does one show a non-judgemental face?
 
00:37:37 iPhone: Anen Father
 
00:49:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Part of Leviticus 19 came into my mind in relation to not judging at all  15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
 
17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
 
00:57:02 Anthony Rago: Since the Late Middle Ages, our culture has been both immoral and curious.  We want the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summas, but we have not as eagerly gone to the other side of him, the one that made the Pange Lingua
 
00:57:39 Anthony Rago: We want knowledge for curiousity's sake, but not the humility of devotion
 
00:57:54 Ambrose Little, OP: Do you think the nature of social media has made this particular trap of the Devil more prevalent?
 
00:58:30 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: How great it would be to always be centered on noting the virtues it observes in others!
 
00:58:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Amen, Sister!
 
01:03:12 Bridget McGinley: As a nurse I can attest it is physically and mentally debilitating communicating. Many of my co workers talk about how they can't even talk after a shift. Verbal interaction is very challenging.
 
01:11:45 Ambrose Little, OP: About #12 and #15.. I recently learned of a few very vocal critics (including a former apologist) in the Church ending up leaving the Faith, either entirely or moving to a sect. It’s very sad. There is something in what St. John is saying they’re for sure—that this kind of behavior can be ruinous.
 
01:17:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:23 Ren Witter: Philokalia.link/tolovefasting
 
01:18:41 carol nypaver: Time??
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part II and Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part I

The subtle movements of the human heart and mind stand revealed while reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent. As one makes one’s way through the text, it becomes clear that it is an inevitability. We must stand ready to have our hearts illuminated and the places that we desire to keep in darkness, whether consciously or unconsciously, exposed. Yet, somehow, when these words come from the pen of a Saint, there is a healing that one begins to experience; even as we know the sting of the words. Knowing and seeing the truth lightens the mind and the heart and opens us to experience the grace and the mercy of God. By removing the impediments to the action of that grace, we find ourselves no longer running with a heavy tread under the burden and the weight of some hidden guilt or wound, but freely and swiftly moving towards He who is Love. 
The jarring nature of John’s words is eventually overcome by the confidence in his desire, as well as God’s, to bring us healing. Such is the case with John’s description of the remembrance of wrongs. He makes it clear that without remedy, it can poison the heart and become dark spite. The more we nurture our anger, the more the heart becomes poisoned, and we eventually only see the faults of others.  To be free of this burden, he tells us, allows us to boldly ask our Savior for the release of our own sins. 
John would have us show no hesitancy and experience no doubt about what coming to God brings us. If we do not attend to this wound, what is born from it is slander. This, he tells us, drains the blood of love and becomes the patron of a heavy and unclean heart. In our anger, we may diminish another through our words, but the consequence that has for ourselves is far greater. It is a coarse disease that only Christ and gazing upon Christ crucified can heal.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:24 Anthony Rago: Tractor Supply, too
 
00:08:15 Anthony Rago: time for an exorcism of the air....
 
00:09:39 FrDavid Abernethy: page 126 para 13
 
00:12:43 Cindy Moran: Oooo...Yes!
 
00:22:53 Anthony Rago: Then this would apply also to wrongs WE have done, too, that filter our His healing?
 
00:27:03 sue and mark: I have found that if I am struggling in this area..that if I ask God to forgive them for me...  it is easier  also to bring me to that place of forgiveness that he desires
 
00:32:12 Anthony Rago: This is what I have a hard time understanding: sin, mortal and venial, which is emphasized so much in the admonishion if frequent confessions....so much emphasis on me, me, me.
 
00:35:42 Anthony Rago: How often is good?
 
00:39:56 Anthony Rago: Thank you
 
00:55:41 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm still puzzled as to the difference between spite and dark spite
 
00:57:43 Cindy Moran: Who is the author of the book you mentioned last week "Orthodox Psychotherapy"?
 
00:57:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe something like.. If you harbor it secretly in the “darkness” of your inner self. You don’t allow it to be brought into the Light, examined for what it is, and see that it is wrong and needs to be eliminated.
 
00:57:59 carol: Dark definition includes “angry, threatening, arising from evil, sinister”
 
00:58:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you all
 
01:01:16 Ambrose Little, OP: “Speaking the truth in love” is one of the most abused phrases.
 
01:03:23 Anthony Rago: Chastity covers up, it is modest.  Unchastity is an unholy exposure.
 
01:11:29 Rachel: LOL
 
01:11:49 Anthony Rago: I think you're right.  More St. Francis is needed, less "vert few will be saved."
 
01:13:08 Lee Graham: The river of life flowing out of us
 
01:14:37 Rachel: ouch
 
01:15:45 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:15:47 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:56 Devansh Shukla: Thank you
 
01:15:57 Rachel: YES!!
 
01:16:08 Bernadette Truta: Yes please!
 
01:16:09 Art: Thank you good night.  Yes I’m interested in the Zoom group on fasting.
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes
 
01:16:12 Deb Dayton: Is this in person?
 
01:16:13 sue and mark: yes
 
01:16:16 Jacqulyn: Yes... I am interested!
 
01:16:19 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: when?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part I

There are certain moments while reading the fathers when one trembles. The truth expressed is so vivid and pierces so deeply that the experience of it is visceral. One is shaken.  This is not easy to endure, and perhaps there are moments when reading such texts becomes a stumbling block for our minds and our hearts. However, when they speak the truth of Christ and when they reveal the depth of love that we are called to in Him, ultimately these words are healing. The fathers, in so many ways, are spiritual physicians. Their words cut like a scalpel and cut deeply. But they cut out the “rot” as John describes it. The remembrance of wrongs, which is the offspring of anger, is not something that we can remove on our own. Untreated it spreads like a cancer. The fact, John tells us it has no offspring because it poisons the soul so completely that it makes us incapable of love. 
May God give us the grace to listen with humility and gratitude. We are given such loving fathers who desire nothing but our healing. When we begin to trust that, then their words become as bright and illuminating as the sun.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 125 Step number 9
 
00:20:29 Anthony: Another kind of remembering wrongs is to trod the path of bad example someone has set...examples, hearing cursing, and then carrying on that "tradition" instead of cutting it off; or doing violence because someone else did violence to you (a chain of abuse).
 
00:22:58 Eric Ewanco: My translation titles this section "On Malice" (with a translation note that also offers "remembrance of wrongs). Your translation refers to "hourly malice" (mine says "rancor by the hour"). Can you elaborate on the relationship between malice and remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:24:12 Ashley Kaschl: Could a victim mentality be tied to the “pleasureless feeling cherished in the sweetness of bitterness” part?
 
00:24:26 Bonnie Lewis: So I shouldn't be troubled that I can relate so deeply to this step?
 
00:27:16 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen Father
 
00:28:30 Anthony: Healing.  In Divine Comedy, Dante is washed in a river of forgetfulness when passing from Purgatory to Heaven, so he can forget all memory of sin.
 
00:31:35 iPhone: +1
 
00:48:05 iPhone: Love these Sessions Father !
 
00:48:53 Daniel Allen: The internet, for a million different reasons, is dangerous… not reading the fathers.
 
00:50:52 carol: How does one speak freely in the context of therapy or spiritual direction while also avoiding the remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:55:37 Charbel & Justin: Demons are fundamentally chaotic.
 
01:05:47 Anthony: Remember that the demons make suckers and schlubs out of all of us.  It makes it easier to have compassion on another.
 
01:07:09 iPhone: Amen
 
01:08:37 Bonnie Lewis: true
 
01:08:47 iPhone: Love that
 
01:10:37 iPhone: Much work to do in this regard.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: This entire section reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross: “Whenever anything disagreeable happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent.”
 
01:12:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:12:26 Bonnie Lewis: This step is excellent Father.  Much to ponder.
 
01:12:43 Debra: Reacted to "This entire section ..." with ❤️
 
01:12:44 iPhone: Amen Father.  Tremendous !
 
01:13:39 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you Father. Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part III

As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17
 
00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David!
 
00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17
 
00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
 
01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you
 
01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father!
 
01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :(
 
01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you
 
01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part II

What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding
 
00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God>
 
00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in.
 
00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others?  Any room in the Fathers for this?  Or is that called something else in their terminology?
 
00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering
 
01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself
 
01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue?
 
01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need).
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VII and Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part I

Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness. 
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin. 
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.”  The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66
 
00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page?
 
00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120
 
00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean!
 
00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God
 
00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻
 
00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼
 
01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, 
 
“Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.”
 
01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?”
 
01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley.  Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen!
 
01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...?  Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure?  Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions
 
01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father
 
01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:05 Art: Thank you father!
 
01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David
 
01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you!
 
01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VI

What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will? 
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page?
 
00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118
 
00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance.
 
01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen."
 
01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.”
 
01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🙂 )
 
01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:08 kevin: Thank you
 
01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part V

Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us. 
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49
 
00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello!  We are new to the group.  We live in Colorado.
 
00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116
 
00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate!
 
00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you!  Good to be here!
 
00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy!
 
00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke
 
00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell
 
00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory
 
00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on?
 
00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51
 
00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks!
 
00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander?
 
00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant
 
00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean?
 
00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one..
 
00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning'
 
00:43:08 Rachel: lol me!
 
00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it..
 
00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy?
 
00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a  young man.
 
00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance?  Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition?
 
00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before
 
00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes
00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful.
 
01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church.
 
01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer?
 
01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject?
 
01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:46 Rachel: haha
 
01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊
 
01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you!
 
01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂
 
01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
01:16:01 Riccardo Orlandi: thank!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part IV

We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28
 
00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂
 
00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues
 
00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless
 
00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them.
 
00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study
 
00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating!
 
00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing.
 
01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing?
 
01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you
 
01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part III

Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us. 
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short. 
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world? 
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow!
 
00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112
 
00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors
 
00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling
 
00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :)
 
00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe?
 
00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins?
 
00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts?  Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad.
 
00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen!
 
00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane
 
00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary
 
00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short'
 
01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration?
 
01:10:56 Anthony: alloy?
 
01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made....
 
01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part II

The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly.  They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace.  This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff.
 
00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear?
 
00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org
 
00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears.
 
00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this?
 
00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow.  His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality.
 
00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge?
 
00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios
 
00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan
 
00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state.
 
00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station.  One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant.  It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this?
 
00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us.
 
01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
01:12:21 Daniel Allen: This makes sense. If you plead guilty you will skip past trying to prove your innocence and simply ask for mercy from the judge. But if you are busy trying to put up a defense you have no time to simply beg for mercy.
 
01:16:26 Henry Peresie: That happens often in Facebook.
 
01:22:48 CMoran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:22:54 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:56 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:23:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:06 kevin: thank you
 
01:23:08 Deiren Masterson: God bless you Father - you are a gift.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXX, Part I

Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us. 
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX
 
00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish.  We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs.
 
00:31:04 carol: And obedience
 
00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE)
 
00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins
 
01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 
 
01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has!
 
01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring
 
01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men
 
01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!!
 
01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E
 
01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e
 
01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all
 
01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VI: On the Remembrance of Death and Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning

To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire. 
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it. 
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil.
 
00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all.  :)
 
00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it?
 
00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting.  So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest.
 
00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense.
 
00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete.
 
00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance.  Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it.  We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit>
 
01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with!
 
01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving!
 
01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you
 
01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part IV and Chapter VI: On Remembrance of Death, Part I

We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107
 
00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice:  Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life?
 
00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty?
 
01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose.
 
01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art.
 
01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits
 
01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part III

It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz.
 
00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂
 
00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday.
 
00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like?
 
00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
Berean Standard Bible · Download
 
 
Cross References
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
 
John 10:6
Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
 
 
Treasury of Scripture
But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
The dog.
 
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
 
2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire..
 
00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly
 
00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful
 
00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my
sins
 
00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty.  They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition.
 
01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;)
 
01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way
 
01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._
 
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part II

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God. 
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant? 
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."
 
00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.
 
00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection
 
00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.
 
00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.
 
00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.
 
01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.
 
01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.
 
01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman
 
01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.
 
01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.
 
01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️
 
01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part I

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy. 
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell. 
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97
 
00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important
 
00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?
 
00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?
 
00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.
 
01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.
 
01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.
 
01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.