Season 7

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXV: On Humility, Part II

It is a curious thing to be humbled by hearing a saint speak about humility. Yet, this is what happens. In and of itself, it reveals to us how far the human heart can be from grasping not only the nature of the virtue but what God has revealed to us in his only begotten Son. 
The Incarnation manifests to us this virtue in its full glory. The word of God, through whom all things have been created, becomes an infant, (infans), that is, “wordless one”. God draws back the veil in order that we might see and comprehend for ourselves the depth of His love and also the life and virtue that we are to embrace as those made in his image and likeness. To embrace Holy Humility, the very life of God, means to let go of our attachment to the things of this world or good deeds accomplished by our own hands. We begin to comprehend with greater clarity and firmness that all is Grace. 
To acknowledge this is to die to self and sin; it is, as John describes it, “reposing securely in the casket of modesty”. The humble heart becomes impervious and unmovable to the demons. As a quality of the Divine, it is not something that we can gauge in its perfection. John, however, works to help us understand its distinguishing characteristics.  One is struck by the fact that the humility of beginners is as different and distinct from the humility of the perfect as yeast and flour are from bread.  Purified by the fire of God‘s love it is freed from all of pride. This is something only God can reveal to us. 
God reveals himself to us in and through the gift of faith. We cannot approach him or the truth that he reveals with a consumerists mentality or seek to dissect these realities as we do with so many things in this world.  It is His light that reveals the depths of the human heart and it is His Spirit of Truth that draws us in the very depths of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 181 number 4
 
00:09:25 David Swiderski: Have you heard about the Holy Resurrection Monestary in Wisconsin. They offer retreats but I just was wondering if they are worthwhile?
 
00:10:17 Jake: I was there for 3 days, it was a great retreat
 
00:14:07 Cindy Moran: Antiochian village?
 
00:36:57 Sharon Fisher: How does one try to take this step if a spouse or close friend doesn’t welcome the transformation we intend to make? You can’t just cut them off; you can be sincere in faith and not burden them with it until they see the (positive) change?
 
00:37:40 Carol: this discussion reminds me of Isadora from Evergetinos
 
00:38:32 Carol: and the indignities she embraced
 
00:38:58 Daniel Allen: It’s startling that the beginning is acceptance of indignity, I tend to see that as the end - or the perfected state. Yet, John says it is the first property. And that’s something.
 
00:39:52 Suzanne: Why is it that as long as we are alone with God at home, we maintain peace of soul and continuous prayer, but as soon as we get into conversations with others, our restraint goes out the window? For example, I got sucked into a discussion about politics earlier today, and I was unable to detect and prevent anger from arising inside me - ultimately my words took on an angry tone, and I said words I now regret. It’s like all I accomplished this morning with God was stolen from me. Basically, when tested, I fail.
 
00:40:38 Jeff O.: Reacted to "It’s startling that ..." with 👍
 
00:43:14 Suzanne: Replying to "It’s startling that ..."
 
Interesting.
 
00:43:29 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that within humility there is recognizing that God loves me, in a breathless way. When I'm around someone who genuinely loves me, I tend to love myself more when I'm with them. Feeling loved and loving myself without condemnation. it seems, helps me accept my weakness and need for God. Humility, then, becomes a natural honesty that helps me put down my defenses of my ego and let God do whatever is necessary to make me like Him and united to Him. Then, denying myself and carrying the cross I recognize to be therapeutic and seems to be the most reasonable and honest thing to do.
 
00:44:54 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Same here. Just recently, too. And frequently, too . . .
 
00:45:23 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." 
 
 Suzanne, my studies ...
 
00:45:28 Daniel Allen: I haven’t read her diary but the diary of Elizabeth Liseur may be a good concrete example of what it looks like for one to be trying to live the faith while another one isn’t at all, and how to do that faithfully.
 
00:46:14 Suzanne: Reacted to "Same here. Just rece..." with ❤️
 
00:46:36 Suzanne: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️
 
00:46:51 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." 
 
 Suzanne I wouldn't t...
 
00:48:02 Suzanne: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Fall, and get back up. Never stop.
 
00:52:04 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..."
 
Proverbs 24:16!
 
00:55:28 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️
 
00:55:37 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies …" with ❤️
 
00:57:57 Suzanne: Reacted to "Proverbs 24:16!" with ❤️
 
00:59:18 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "How does one try to ..."
 
Followup to the discussion: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36).
 
01:06:45 Sean: Stephen Hawking: "If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would know the mind of God." That always struck me as hubris.
 
01:07:15 Anthony Rago: Also in regard to not prying into mysteries, does this apply to the errors of heretics? And does it apply to the orthodox whose censures might have caused more harm than good (ex. The way we used anathema which had the effect of alienating whole peoples)?
 
01:09:51 Patrick Caruso: In step 25:7, he says the highest degree includes 'a constant desire to learn'. However in Step 24:29 he says 'If knowledge puffs up most people, simplicity and a lack of learning can perhaps in the same measure humble them.' Is he saying that the path of knowledge is to first learn to be simple through perhaps a lack of learning to bring about true knowledge via humility and only then will we be capable of a purified desire to learn?
 
01:12:53 Suzanne: I’ve been putting into practice lately, taking all my thoughts to God. It’s really powerful, and it’s leading me to actually speak with Him quietly and intimately about past sins. I sense that there is a deep pride that causes us to withdraw from His gaze, and refuse to reflect upon our sins in His holy sight. Yet He has shown me that He is ardently ready and willing to discuss my sin with me, and make me understand His Providence. This, I think, is going to lead to humility in my soul.
 
01:15:33 Anthony Rago: Reacted to I’ve been putting in... with "❤️"
 
01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Reacted to "I’ve been putting in..." with ❤️
 
01:17:06 Suzanne: I so appreciate your help!
 
01:17:59 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father excellent session
 
01:18:03 Sean: prayers and gratitude Father
 
01:18:04 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father, good night
 
01:18:05 mflory: Thank you!
 
01:18:06 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:18:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:28 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:18:29 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
 
01:18:31 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part IV and XXV: On Humility, Part I

Elder Porphyrios wrote “whoever wants to be a Christian must first become a poet”.  I mention this because the truth of it plays out in St. John’s writing tonight on humility. One indeed must become a poet - one who has the capacity to capture the deepest of mysteries with a few words. 
However, what we see in St. John’s writings is that even this capacity fails us when we begin to speak about “Holy Humility” - our call to participate in the very life and virtue of God;  “Learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart.”We must become docile; that is, teachable in the most radical fashion. There must be a willingness on our part to let go of all conceit, prudence, and cunning. What is being spoken of is not simply a natural virtue, but a participation in the divine. It is that which can only be understood through experience. 
Such a path will always be challenging because it means letting go of our perception of reality, even religious reality. As God draws us into greater intimacy with himself, we are called to walk along the dark and obscure path of faith. This faith is a kind of knowing, but it is dark and obscure because it is beyond the limitations of intellect, reason, and imagination. To experience God “as he is in himself” means to let go of the boundaries, the foot holds, and the crutches that we have used to move forward in our understanding. It can be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God: Fearful, precisely, because it means letting go of reality as we have known it. 
We can feel as though we are being brought to the edge of insanity and so St. John warns us that we must let go of prudence and its delusion. Prudence often masks a lack of courage. It is a human wisdom that tells us, warns us, not to go to extremes. In this sense, it is good. Yet, it can also be deadly to true faith. It can cripple us with fear and make us choose the path of safety, rather than entrusting ourselves wholly to God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:25 FrDavid Abernethy: Step 24 number 27 page 179
 
00:15:25 Suzanne: Moment of silence for that pie! Yum!!
 
00:15:32 Sean: home made cranberry is killer
 
00:15:44 Suzanne: Replying to "home made cranberry ..."
 
Just made mine!
 
00:31:20 Anthony Rago: The submission of Christians and Muslims who lost children recently in the Holy Land is a concrete example of carrying a cross.
 
00:32:13 Anthony Rago: They take it so graciously
 
00:40:34 Sharon Fisher: Could it be like being wishy-washy,  choosing no path?
 
00:41:02 Cindy Moran: My version reads "cleverness" instead of prudence
 
00:43:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: The reading on our calendar for today was to leave 99 to find one. That doesn't seem prudent
 
00:44:33 Carol: the widow with the 2 mites is imprudent too
 
00:57:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Over the years, I have at times imitated humility, but never acquired it. I depend on God to grant me humility as His gift and I hope asceticism and prayer helps me recognize and receive it.
 
01:00:48 Suzanne: Reacted to "Over the years, I ha..." with ❤️
 
01:01:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sounds like you're saying becoming humble is becoming like Christ. Part of theosis.
 
01:01:13 Santiago Bua: Before humillity is a decision is a prayer for. Greetings from Argentina
 
01:01:16 Louise: Humility baffles me. Maybe humility is something like ''I do not know.
Only God knows.'' In contrast, pride would be ''I know better than God.''
 
01:02:48 Sam: This also reminds me of the need for humility acceptance of spiritual direction as many have fallen along the path to asceticism where pride cones and destroys the child like humility needed through spiritual direction and discernment  of guidance or advice
 
01:04:57 Sean: I practise humility e.g. stepping aside on a narrow walkng path, allowing the other to pass easily or waiting patiently in line saying the Jesus praayer and avoiding the thoughts of 'I'm in a hurry, come on'. I don't know if that makes me humble or making just faking it til i make it.
 
01:05:03 Alexandra K: You recognize your own pride when you are not looking for humility and it comes to you right in your face.
 
01:06:59 Christian Corulli: Are there some points in the spiritual life where we need a spiritual director to grow in humility further?
 
01:08:09 Louise: I am concerned about the diabolic trap of euthanasia offered to people in Canada. Individuals choosing ''medical assistance in dying'' or MAIDS, as part of the ''human dignity to chose,'' are basically saying to God, ''I decide when I die, not You! I chose not to suffer.'' I am afraid that they can only end up in hell. What would the Desert Fathers say?
 
01:13:49 Anthony Rago: I enjoy a particular craft. To really know it, I have to stop reading, stop being distracted by other crafts, and just work, interacting with the metal and tools. In experiencing this vocation it's an analogy to discovering God. You just have to quit the inaction, focus, and do it....and you grow without fixation on laws, on control, on growing.  You just do, and the beauty (& truth & goodness) comes.
 
01:16:53 Suzanne: Thank you, Father, and Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
01:17:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Reacted to "Thank you, Father, a..." with 🙏🏼
 
01:17:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:17:21 sue and mark: Thank you.  Happy Thanksgiving.
 
01:17:41 mflory: Thank you!
 
01:17:42 Art: Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
01:17:46 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit! Thank you!!
 
01:17:55 Cindy Moran: Happy Thanksgiving Father! Thank you for great session
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part III

Guile.  It is rarely a word that is used in our day; nor one which we use to examine our own minds and hearts. Yet, as St. John describes it, guile has an impact upon our vision of life, God, ourselves, and others. Our vision becomes wholly distorted and perverted. While guile is a kind of intelligence - it is sly and cunning. Understanding, then, is used to manipulate others and circumstances for one’s own benefit. This in turn creates an aversion to humility and repentance. The pretense of religion and religiosity begins to prevail in a person’s life. Reverence and piety becomes a sham.  One becomes diabolical, and they use what is good in order to commit evil. It creates within the human heart a love of sin and so makes an individual the companion of the devil. 
We are to live upright lives; that is, we are stand upright with our eyes fixed forward toward the life that God has made possible for us. How often we choose the path of beasts; our eyes directed downwards towards the things of this world and the satisfaction of our own appetites. The mind and the heart become sick and incapable of seeing the truth - so deeply have they sunk into the abyss of this unholy cunning.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Celine Fournier: Hello I am new to the zoom.
 
00:18:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 178 para 20
 
00:18:44 Walter Viola: First time attending. Been following via YouTube for a year.
 
00:29:39 David Swiderski: Wouldnt this be what we call today sociopaths? Often highly intelligent but are only able to see this benefits me now and this does not. There is no empathy or concept of a right and wrong. Working with excecutives in several pulbic companies I am convinced this is abnormally high in that group.
 
00:30:46 Louise: Guile seems to be the modus vivendi of psychopaths, or people I call satanic souls.
 
00:30:59 Kevin Burke: What is meant by “hindrance to resurrection?”
 
00:31:19 sue and mark: how would gaslighters come into play with this?
 
00:31:20 Anthony Rago: Yesterdays Gospel mentioned guile. Christ addresses Nathaniel as an Israelite in whom is no guile, is that to show he was outstanding in a crowd of people with guile? Or is it that he is an excellent specimen of a crowd of honest people? And what does that have to do with sitting under the fig tree?
 
00:32:38 Louise: If you meet one, go away, leave the scene ASAP.
 
00:36:02 Louise: Could we say that the ones are the bad seeds, the weeds?
 
00:36:49 Louise: ''he guile ones''
 
00:38:17 Carol: do you think guile can exist more subtly in the hearts of all of us
 
00:39:38 Maureen Cunningham: Guile is when you plan to hurt another soul.
 
00:44:01 Daniel Allen: Not to change texts but this makes me think of the wisdom of St Isaac, “above all things love silence”. I tend to regret my words more than biting my tongue
 
00:44:37 Anthony Rago: This is why Jansenism was so serious. Pure as angels; Proud as devils
 
00:46:47 Maureen Cunningham: I did see that movie
 
00:47:06 Cindy Moran: Love that movie
 
00:48:32 Louise: What is the name again?
 
00:48:38 Cindy Moran: Jennifer Jones
 
00:48:40 Rod Castillo: Jennifer Jones
 
00:48:52 Rod Castillo: Song of Bernadette
 
01:00:30 Louise: Father, we lost you.
 
01:00:36 Cindy Moran: Frozen
 
01:03:09 David Swiderski: A priest in Spain explained this well to me. All churches are filled with stainglass windows of the saints who let the light of God enter into our lives. By struggling we slowly clean our own windows and dark stains to let the light of God to enter into this world and our communities.
 
01:17:26 Maureen Cunningham: If we are always looking at what is bad in us ? In the same way can gaze at how far we have come closer to Him
 
01:20:59 Cindy Moran: Fun fact: Jennifer Jones was married to movie mogul studio film executive David O. Selznick [Gone With the Wind] who was born here in Pittsburgh
 
01:21:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much, Father
 
01:21:37 sue and mark: Thank you
 
01:21:40 Celine Fournier: Thank you
 
01:21:49 Louise: Thanks, Fr.
 
01:22:23 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:22:24 mflory: Thanks you very much, Father!
 
01:22:31 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:22:41 David Swiderski: May God bless you father! Thank you.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part II

To be simple, guileless, and meek are described by St. John as a habit of soul. Habits form deeply over the course of time and those that we form through negligence in our relationship with God are often very difficult to change. In fact, it would be better to say that they are changed only by the grace of God. 
What would our life look like if our speech was unpremeditated? What would our relationships look like if we were free from ulterior motives? To look upon others only with love and to live in the truth through humility is to reshape our experience and vision of reality. Suddenly we begin to see things (and more importantly others) as God sees them. We can look upon the other and be blind to their natural faults or defects as well as their sins. We return to a kind of holy innocence and purity of heart were we never lose sight of the beauty of God’s creation and most especially the beauty of the human person. To give oneself to God is to find within the capacity to give oneself to others, to love without measure, to serve without calculation. May God make it so!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 177 para 10
 
00:19:16 Victor Haburchak: Jesus was often angry with the Pharisees & scribes.
 
00:36:58 Kate : I find that my attempts at simplicity of life can become rather complex in trying to let go of things in my life.  I am flooded with distractions that “seem” necessary at the time but later I realize it was a temptation away from simplicity.  I find it hard to navigate towards simplicity.  The complexity of simplicity!
 
00:41:10 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I find that my attem…" with ❤️
 
00:43:48 Daniel Allen: That’s me I always want another book and read say 7 at a time. Then I read from St Isaac today that not every good book is beneficial for stillness (or simplicity). Even the good things, in this case a quest for knowledge and understanding, can actually be a distraction.
 
00:45:55 Kate : Thank you, Father!  You cut through the complexity for me.  Union with God.
 
00:46:07 Anthony Rago: Some of it you learn by experience
 
00:46:17 Jeff O.: Reacted to "That’s me I always w..." with 👍
 
00:46:34 Rory: Reacted to That’s me I always w... with "👍"
 
00:46:46 Rory: Reacted to Some of it you learn... with "👍"
 
00:47:34 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "That’s me I always w…" with 👍
 
00:59:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I've often been struck by this saying: It was said of Abba Macarius the Great that he became, according
to the writings, a god on earth, because in the way God protects the world, so Abba Macarius would hide the faults he saw as though he had not seen them, and the faults he heard about as though he had not heard of them.
Sayings of the Desert Fathers, Macari us the Egyptian 3 2 (PG 6 5 ,
273)
 
01:01:55 Daniel Allen: That’s strikingly beautiful
 
01:03:50 Victor Haburchak: Replying to "I've often been stru…"
Like the Seal of Confession
 
01:05:05 Victor Haburchak: My pastor often speaks about respecting boundaries
 
01:06:22 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I've often been stru..." with 💙
 
01:08:55 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I've often been stru…" with 💙
 
01:11:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:38 Victor Haburchak: Thanks!
 
01:11:44 Art: Thank you.
 
01:11:50 sue and mark: Thank you.
 
01:12:07 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:12:19 Maureen Cunningham: Blessings Praying  for all
 
01:12:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernathy!
 
01:12:28 Jeff O.: thank you!!
 
01:12:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:12:39 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part V and Chapter XXIV: On Meekness, Part I

“We are reading to fast!”  This is typically something that we would never say about our study groups. However, as we sit at the feet of St. John Climacus, we come to the realization that we could sit with a single saying for months on end and not fail to be nourished. 
We concluded our discussion of Step 23 and the difficulty with blasphemous thoughts. The evil one in his envy will seek to distract us with blasphemous thoughts that come like a flash of lightning before the mind. Our one response should be to lay this great burden upon the Lord, to entrust it to him, knowing that it comes not from our hearts but from the malice of the evil one. 
In Step 24 Saint John begins to discuss meekness, simplicity, and guilelessness. As Saint John begins to define it for us, we suddenly experience ourselves as moving too briskly. Meekness is an “unchangeable state of mind, a rock overlooking the sea of anger”. These thoughts alone are enough to alter our view of this great virtue. In the face of the chaos of living in a fallen world or the experience of the hatred and anger of others, meekness becomes a buttress that is unshakable and keeps us from being swept away by touchiness of mind or irritability of heart. Meekness creates the desire for simplicity; to create a place where the Lord will find rest within us. It allows us to maintain dominion over our heart by the simple act of mortifying the intellect and private judgment. In the weeks to come, may we linger along with these thoughts and come to desire this great virtue.
 
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:01:31 Suzanne: Hello! Happy Feast of All Saints!!
 
00:01:39 FrDavid Abernethy: to you as well!
 
00:01:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47
 
00:03:02 Suzanne: Look! The West gets it! From Vespers for All Saints:
 
00:03:09 Suzanne: Choréa casta vírginum,
Et quos erémus íncolas
Transmísit astris, cǽlitum
Locáte nos in sédibus.
 
00:03:52 Suzanne: And the Antiphon from the Magnifcat:
 
00:03:58 Suzanne: Ángeli, * Archángeli, Throni et Dominatiónes, Principátus et Potestátes, Virtútes cælórum, Chérubim atque Séraphim, Patriárchæ et Prophétæ, sancti legis Doctóres, Apóstoli, omnes Christi Mártyres, sancti Confessóres, Vírgines Dómini, Anachorítæ, Sanctíque omnes, intercédite pro nobis.
 
00:04:23 Sean: I tried to find it, it's out of 'print', no luck
 
00:06:44 Rachel: ty
 
00:09:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47
 
00:14:59 Art: Hello TY and same to you!
 
00:25:05 Louise: In my culture of origin, in Quebec, Canada, the French-Canadians swear with the names of God and the Eucharist, even psychologists in supervision with me. I ask them to not do so, but they relapse after a while. I thus decided to offer, inwardly, my apologies to Christ when they swear. Can I do something else?
 
00:25:55 Louise: I would have to exclude them all.
 
00:28:38 David Swiderski: When I lived in Spain the same issue most swears blasphemous. I was a teacher so just joked wow you need a thesaurs and have a limited and very poor vocabulary. It seemed to work and get a laugh.
 
00:31:47 Suzanne: equanimity
 
00:33:05 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Learn of Me, for I am meek and
humble in heart. It seems, then, that depending on Christ and becoming like Christ transforms us into being humble. So, it seems like it's part of the process of theosis. Is this so?
 
00:33:37 sharonfisher: How can insecurity be transformed to meekness? I guess I’m asking how to display the strength I feel in Jesus Christ, but the body belies.
 
00:34:30 Anthony Rago: Something that helps me deal with anger -and bad thoughts - is that any bad thought against a man really reflects on the Lord,  the ne Adanm. And any bad thought against a woman really reflects on our Lady, the ideal of a woman. I don't like that so it helps keep the interior life in check, to dash the infants of evil thoughts against the rocks.
 
00:38:02 sharonfisher: Replying to "How can insecurity b..."
 
Thank you - I think my question was more self-centered (ie, not appropriate!)
 
00:38:38 David Swiderski: On my door to my room I have a quote which I see when I leave and when I go to bed- (In loving one another, God in us made flesh). I often find I fall short at night but seem more careful the next day.
 
00:40:08 sharonfisher: Reacted to "On my door to my roo..." with ❤️
 
00:40:58 Daniel Allen: This conversation about meekness makes me think of “the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent carry it away” which is very much not being a doormat. So it’s a matter of that violence being directed towards biting our own tongue (or what have you) and not against another.
 
00:45:09 Suzanne: Fr. Ripperger talks about demons putting negative perspectives on things that are pure illusions, and that get us angry.
 
00:46:38 Ashley Kaschl: To Suzanne’s point, it’s the cogitative power of the brain that Fr. R talks about, which makes associations, and is why asking
the Lord to protect our faculties is so important 😁
 
00:47:06 Suzanne: Amen Ashley!
 
00:49:31 sharonfisher: There, that is what I was trying to convey — I feel peace, but the passions and fears overtake. So how to slow or reduce the effect of the physical body that reacts. Apologies if I’m not clear.
 
00:51:28 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Meekness as an unmoveable rock, is strength, and much different than the connotation of meekness as self-effacement and highly flexible that I'm used to in our society. that's helpful
 
00:53:07 Louise: To help myself not engage in frustrations, angry reactions, etc. I am at times gently reminded by God (I believe) to say, ''May Thy will be done.'' If it comes from God, it is then OK by me.
 
00:53:52 sharonfisher: Reacted to "To help myself not e..." with ❤️
 
00:54:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: This strength makes more sense that Moses, the leader and prophet of Israel, could be called the meekest of men.
 
00:55:48 Suzanne: The actor who played Nectarios wonderfully portrayed the strain and violence - yet tempered with real interior peace and steadfastness - experienced in the practice of the virtue of meekness. Also the deep sadness that oppresses the soul in the face of sad injustice.
 
01:02:46 Anthony Rago: Italian temper here. I've literally seen red.
 
01:02:59 Suzanne: Reacted to "Italian temper here...." with 😂
 
01:03:29 Suzanne: Eh Rago!! Romano here!!
 
01:03:47 Anthony Rago: Reacted to Eh Rago!! Romano her... with "❤️"
 
01:10:11 Ashley Kaschl: I think I could contemplate these last handful of paragraphs for months if not years! But could we say that God’s meekness is also a facet of His mercy, too? To me, there seems to be not so much a reaching out from God in meekness but a “staying of His hand”, a resoluteness to endure our infidelity. If ever there was Someone worthy of being angry at being wronged, offended, or betrayed it is God and yet He waits and endures our wretchedness while not destroying us but offering us a way back to Him.
 
01:11:08 Suzanne: Reacted to "I think I could cont..." with ❤️
 
01:11:54 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I think I could cont…" with ❤️
 
01:14:49 Louise: Have a good ''All Saints Day''! Thanks Father!
 
01:15:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:20 Victor Haburchak: Thanks
 
01:15:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much for all the work you do!
 
01:15:24 David Swiderski: Thank you father! Have a blessed week!
 
01:15:35 sue and mark: thank you.
 
01:15:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:02 S Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:16:04 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part IV

Pride destroys the one thing that the spiritual person should desire - the  unfailing light in the eye of the heart. The ascetic life seeks to remove every impediment to our loving God and being faithful to his will. The moment that we are filled with conceit or self-esteem, our souls, despite having the illusion of wealth, come to know the greatest poverty and darkness. What appears beautiful on the outside is often foul and rotting within. Saint John tells us that a “proud monk has no need of a devil, he has become a devil and enemy to himself.” And so for all of us: Pride undermines every virtue and makes us vulnerable to the most cruel of foes. One is exposed to blasphemous thoughts, even at the time of worship. If we are not constantly reproaching ourselves for our sin and acknowledging our poverty before God, then the enemy draws close and begins to play with the mind and the heart by placing suggestions before us. The presence of these thoughts can lead a person into great despair and make them want to give off of prayer and the participation in the holy mysteries. Therefore, John exhorts us to continue praying to the end and not give up the fight even when we feel overcome. Our prayer must become ever more constant until such thoughts cease.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:06 Suzanne: Ave Maria!!!
 
00:11:02 FrDavid Abernethy: 172 para 26
 
00:11:37 Suzanne: Is there a link for the readings?
 
00:24:33 Anthony Rago: This is funny. I grow pomegranates and am not great at knowing when they are ripe. The color can be deceitful to a "newbie."
 
00:26:59 Maureen Cunningham: Sounds like a sport who could be the strongest  but only spiritual
 
00:32:40 Michael Hinckley: happens to me all the time.
 
00:36:02 Maureen Cunningham: I love that movie so true
 
00:41:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: 77777777777777777777
 
00:41:37 sharonfisher: I think of Jimmy Carter (not an a political sense) and his acceptance of God to take him when it’s his time. He seems to feel very comfortable with his end.
 
00:42:57 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: This translation says:  The man ensnared by pride will need God's help, since man is of no use to him.
 
00:45:39 Maureen Cunningham: It the opposite of the Holy Family
 
01:04:07 Suzanne: Would kneeling be the Western counterpart to prostrations?
 
01:09:22 David Swiderski: The prostrations are common in Jewish prayer as well. Early Spanish traditions sometimes one lays face first in the form of a cross similar to priest when ordained
 
01:10:13 Suzanne: In the Eastern Catholic Church, do the faithful stand during the Liturgy?
 
01:10:30 Michael Hinckley: you see it at or in TLM parishes at confession
 
01:11:33 Maureen Cunningham: In the Orthodox Church in Hawaii you stand and they touch the floor many times
 
01:11:45 sue and mark: Depending on the Adoration Chapel, you can frequently  see people prostrating themselves
 
01:11:54 Suzanne: Very interesting, thank you!
 
01:12:20 Anonymous Sinner: The touching of the floor is a symbolic reminder that we are dust, and to dust we shall return, and that it is only by the grace of God that do so while praying Alleluia
 
01:12:53 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "The touching of the ..." with 👍
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:06 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
 
01:13:07 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:10 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!  Thank you!
 
01:13:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part III

As we pour through the sayings of Saint John Climacus about pride and overcoming pride, what we see in the Evergetinos and its teaching on humility we see now in the Ladder’s teaching on pride. We are circling around something greater than just an idea. We circle around pride and look at its many facets in order to see how subtle the temptations often are to embrace the illusion that this vice puts before us. The devil will use every means to pull us away from the truth and truthful living. Therefore, Saint John wants us to see every manifestation of the pride in order that we also might apply the remedies that the fathers put before us. What becomes clear is the need for constant vigilance. We must not allow ourselves to lose sight of God and his mercy and grace or our poverty and sin. Everything good comes to us from the hand of God, and there is nothing that we can attribute to ourselves that is enduring. Christ is truth and so we must strive throughout the course of our entire life to avoid all falsehood. We must not succumb to the father of lies and so find ourselves in his grip or being his plaything. May God be our strength and source of invincible peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:07 sharonfisher: Maybe a dumb question, but I think of deification as something we acquire (gifted) at the end times. Are we to strive for deification in this worldly life?
 
00:28:06 Victor: Some theologians speak of realized & future eschatology (now & future).
 
00:31:20 sharonfisher: Thank you!
 
00:42:18 Ashley Kaschl: Comment for paragraph #19: I think this can be really true if we aren’t discerning. For example, I’ll throw myself under the bus 😂 
 
A priest and I were talking recently about how, before bed, I’ll sometimes get “carried away” by higher, theological thoughts and inspirations. And I’ll be drawn out of rest and end up awake for hours longer than I planned, which obviously makes me tired for the responsibilities the next day. This priest said, “it sounds like a distraction or a temptation.” And I hadn’t thought about that because I didn’t think about these beautiful things or contemplation of deeper truths I didn’t have time for during the day as devils in disguise to keep me from sleep. 
 
So when I tested this, sure enough, they went away when I prayed for deliverance if these seemingly good things were actually temptations/distractions from the great good of getting enough sleep.
 
00:44:40 Art: The sacrifice of the mass is greater than the sacrifice of a martyr.
 
01:06:15 Daniel Allen: It’s kind of like Lot. He had to be dragged out of Sodom by God, and even then when told to flee to the hills he asked to flee instead to a smaller city.
 
01:07:20 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Have a good retreat again!🙂
 
01:07:56 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 🙏
 
01:07:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing Father keep you in prayer I love the quotes on face book and instagram Thanks
 
01:08:07 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! I so appreciate your ability to bring clarity to the readings!
 
01:08:48 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 
01:09:03 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 
01:09:10 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXIII: On Pride, Part II

“An arrogant man yearns for authority; he cannot, or rather, does not wish to perish utterly.“ In many ways, this one saying sums up our reflection this evening. When pride takes hold of an individual soul, one begins to move further and further away from God. Rather than “perish utterly” - that is, die to self and sin - one drives God from the mind and heart. The capacity to love diminishes, the desire to humiliate others increases, and, finally, our perception of reality is distorted beyond measure. It is for this reason that Saint John entitles this step “On Mad Pride“.  The more that we turn away from He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the more that we turn away from He who is Meaning, the more we lose touch with reality. We become like the one who fell from heaven, the father of lies. We are drawn into the same darkness and inability to see not only the truth about our souls but also to see the depths of God’s love and compassion.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170 para number 2
 
00:15:21 TFredman: Have you heard from Ren? How is she doing?
 
00:16:21 Lee Graham: You will be greatly missed next week, you will be in my prayers.
 
00:43:33 David Swiderski: John mentions Gluttony is the prince of passions but also places Pride as a key passion are they both keys of all the passions? Is one more principal.
 
01:05:04 Louise: Therefore, how to understand one's desire to become competent, as competent as can be, to do things right?
 
01:14:05 Louise: So to become competent for Christ, to serve Christ in this world.
 
01:16:27 Victor: Thanks!
 
01:18:02 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...will be praying...
 
01:18:13 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:18:13 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:18:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part IV, and On Pride, Part I

Rarely do we acknowledge the extraordinary gift that God gave to his Church in the Desert fathers. It is precisely through their “living martyrdom” - their dying to self, to sin, and to the world, that they are able to guide us through the trials and tribulations of spiritual warfare. Their perception of our vulnerabilities as human beings was very acute. Humbled over and over again and acknowledging their sin and poverty before God, they came to see the many ways that the vices manifest themselves as well as the remedies to bring healing. The spirituality that arises out of desert monasticism is not one among many. It is “the spirituality” of the church. It is a manifestation of the deepest exercise of faith. In this the desert fathers became living icons of the gospel. For this reason, it is often acknowledged that “wherever we see renewal within the life of the church, there are the desert fathers.”  Saint John Climacus draws us into where the fiercest warfare takes place – the human ego. We often seek to place the self at the center of existence and so open ourselves up to the spirit of vainglory and pride. When these take hold of us they close the door to repentance and healing. Furthermore, St. John tells us, they lead to a kind of “madness”. They distort our perception of reality. We can no longer see God or the truth about ourselves. And we see others not as the object of our love and compassion. Rather we become pitiless inquisitors and inhuman judges. Thus, it has often been said that a prideful monk has no need to be attacked by the demons because he has become a demon himself. This is true for all of us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 169 paragraph 40
 
00:25:10 Louise: Could we say that pride usually prevents people to acknowledge that they are under a spell or diabolically influenced, while it is obvious to others given the incongruence of their behaviors?
 
00:37:06 Anthony: It sounds then that the bad things attributed to Vatican 2 is an example of poor formation.
 
00:44:53 Louise: Affirmation ''therapy'' is not psychotherapy, but an obligation from the
psychological boards. Otherwise, a psychologist looses his or her license.
 
00:45:37 Louise: This affirmation therapy applies to transgenderism.
 
00:46:36 sue and mark: louise, interesting.  I had not heard that.  thank you
 
00:48:31 David Swiderski: The book Orthodox Psychotherapy the science of the Fathers is very interesting on thsi subject.
 
01:04:12 David Swiderski: I loved that about Mother Teresa . A penicl in the hand of God. Not the hand not the author of what flowed through her.
 
01:10:07 Michael Hinckley: I always saw San Filippo as a precursor to Padre Pio
 
01:11:09 Anthony: When we crave entertainment like novels or movies - orvevrn news and talk radio - we open the door to the thoughts of others, to tell a story, and often the storytelling and acting makes vices into virtues. Even if it's not overt, the presentation undermines right thinking and behavior and causes future problems.
 
01:11:52 sue and mark: Reacted to "When we crave entert..." with 👍
 
01:12:22 Lee Graham: Reacted to "When we crave entert…" with 👍
 
01:13:07 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I loved that about M…" with ❤️
 
01:22:17 Rachel: That is so true!!
 
01:22:36 Rachel: Haha
 
01:23:39 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:41 David Swiderski: Thank you Father
 
01:23:48 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:23:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:23:52 sue and mark: good night.  thank you
 
01:23:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:23:55 Michael Hinckley: Santa Notte
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part III

One of the prophets writes: “the human heart is a treacherous thing, who can endure it!“ We begin to see the truth of this statement or more accurately the truth that is behind it. The spiritual battle that we engage in with our passions and our thoughts is often dogged by a kind of diabolical intrigue. The devil is relentless and unresting. He can manipulate us in such a way that he makes us desire to put ourselves forward, to put ourselves into the light; convincing us that to do so will draw people to greater faith. 
 
The evil one acts with a kind of patience; he will begin to work on us slowly. He begins by making us enamored with our own natural gifts and abilities. In this way he makes us unfaithful in small things; we attribute natural gifts to ourselves rather than simply being grateful for the things of God has given to us. Such infidelity grows over the course of time as well as the complexity of the evil one’s manipulation. He can begin to work on us from multiple angles, if you will. He can place scripture in our mind to do battle with the temptation of one demon, but then make us feel proud of our ability to do so. 
 
Therefore, St. John tells us that we must begin the road to freedom from vainglory by remaining silent about ourselves and our accomplishments. We must learn to love to be dishonored. To be a Christian in this world is to be mocked and held in contempt. We must set aside our tendency to wear a mask that makes us more acceptable in the eyes of the world. We may put on the appearance of virtue yet always within the limits of what our world finds acceptable.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:24 susan: seeing yourself as a debtor is truth
 
00:24:35 Rachel: John 4"34
 
00:30:18 Art: I recently heard in a homily: The Gospel teaches us not to be like the Pharisee who says, ‘thank you God that I’m not like the Publican’. 
But we must be careful that in our heart of hearts we’re not also saying, “Thank you God, I’m not like that Pharisee.”
Vainglory can strike from any side.
 
00:31:02 Rachel: Reacted to "I recently heard i..." with ❤️
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: One method of evangelization is to share from our own experience instead of preaching what one should and should not do, since no one can argue with our experience and it's a more non-threatening way to share
 
00:31:59 Eric Ewanco: How would we evangelize with what you said in mind?
 
00:44:58 Ambrose Little, OP: The text here (#34) specifically speaks of displaying virtues. It’s akin to Christ’s exhortation to not be showy when fasting, or not be showy when giving—do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. I don’t see it speaking against witnessing what God has done for us.
 
00:47:39 Lawrence Martone: Regarding self-revelation, there’s the point that the focus should be on God and not ourselves, when it is expressed.
 
00:50:00 sharonfisher: Purity in motivations.
 
00:51:46 Anthony: There might be another vainglory....to magnify to yourself evil mental motions and temptations and fixate on What have I done? This is also pharisaical.
 
00:53:51 Lawrence Martone: “Our real business is to allow God to shed His light through us, and since the light belongs to Him, He will know where to focus it and to what extent.  Our endeavor should be to make ourselves transparent so as not to eclipse His brilliance.”
                                                                           Erasmo Leiva-Merikais on Matthew 5:14 ff.
 
 
It seems to me that humility, as was mentioned earlier in Step 22, is essential to this endeavor of making ourselves transparent.
 
01:05:17 Cindy Moran: How does what John tells us apply to being a fool for Christ...
 
01:07:09 Cindy Moran: You just answered me.
 
01:07:11 David Swiderski: The Island is a movie from 2006 that demonstrates a fool for christ
 
01:07:25 Rachel: I wonder if this movement towards simplifying is somewhere where we have to be led by our Lord. Since it is an abyss we cant know how to navigate our way through. We can ' think" we know what kinds of dishonor we can profit by but it seems we have to wait to be led by only seeking God's will and what He reveals to us
 
01:10:33 Maureen Cunningham: ThankYou
 
01:10:35 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:10:48 Eric Ewanco: One year anniversary of your appointment!
 
01:11:21 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:11:22 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:11:24 Louise: Thank you!
 
01:11:25 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:11:29 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:11:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:11:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thanks be to God!  Thank you Father.
 
01:11:39 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy!  God bless
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory, Part II

With stunning clarity, St. John Climacus begins to show us the subtlety of vainglory; how easily it draws us to focus upon the self in one fashion or another. It suggests thoughts that elevate us in our own eyes and diminishes others in our judgment. 
Through vainglory we begin the movement of placing ourselves in the position of God; placing the self at the center of the spiritual life. The battle becomes ever so fierce and dangerous because at this point the focus of the demons’ attention is on our virtues. The demons make them the object of our attention. In doing so they turn us away from God who is the beginning and end of all things. 
And with the self firmly planted at the center, we are easily driven to rage and wrath towards anyone who gets in our way.  In the end, St John will show us how this gives birth to pride and how it draws us into the very darkness of hell itself.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:31:16 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy,
 
Perhaps the opposite of this vice of vainglory and seeking prestige is the beautiful story about St. John Vianney who added his own signature to a letter of protest to the bishop from leading clerics and parishioners against his (Fr. Vianney’s) way of being a pastor.
 
00:38:42 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: St. John Chrysostom and St. Gregory the Theologian, also, fled the priesthood, but eventually offered the Church an extraordinary legacy. Vainglory, would you say, attacks or tries to undermine our authentic vocations?
 
00:52:05 Anthony: Living the spiritual life is not the same as conversations in a "salon" or on a college campus.
 
00:52:06 Ren Witter: 🤣🤣🤣 My favorite Philip story
 
00:55:35 Louise: Could we say that vainglory corresponds to the ongoing self-validation or self-degradation of the ego, the ego focusing on the ego? If I were to let myself, I could become quite exasperated at this pervasive phenomenon inside my psyche. Any thoughts, Fr.?
 
00:59:35 Louise: So, we ought to not fight with our vainglory, but gently turn back to loving Jesus Christ.
 
01:02:14 Louise: Thank you, Fr.
 
01:08:30 Rachel: I think vainglory can be ever so subtle. I know someone who was told by a priest they were being scrupulous in a certain matter when they tried to confess. This brought much confusion because the person knew that the sins they attempted to confess were not " serious matter" and did not need to be confessed but in their desire to fight pride and vainglory, which was the cause of their sins. The person then had to fight vainglory in another way and thatg was not to tell the priest they knew that they were not serious sins. It was more painful to be seen as scrupulous and weak minded for the person.
 
01:09:55 Louise: I feel compassionate with people with a narcissistic disorder of the self, an arrested psychological development, who are so often stuck in vainglory and pride. What a prison!
 
01:14:15 Kevin Burke: The deeper we go into John’s Vainglory examples the more it seems the same as pride to me.  Can we recap the distinction between Vainglory and pride?
 
01:18:13 David Swiderski: Aren't a lot of the theologians presenting vainglory by arguing about angels on a pin, filoque, how one makes the sign of the cross etc. etc.  Only I can see the truth ..... all others that don't agree with me are wrong.
 
01:20:22 Anthony: That's Dante 's penultimate circle of hell if memory is correct - persons who appear alive on earth but they have confirmed themselves in hell.
 
01:23:50 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you ,  Blessing in my prayers
 
01:24:30 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:24:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:24:43 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXII: On Vainglory

Self-esteem . . . how the meaning of that has changed over the generations. And when it becomes abstracted from our relationship with God, when our self-identity, purpose, and meaning becomes unmoored from He who created us, self-esteem can become the most grotesque of the vices. It will not only diminish our virtues, but destroy them completely. 
When the sweat and the toil of the spiritual life is turned back on the self or when ascetical practices become ends in themselves, they lose all value. Christ himself warns us about this in the Gospel. “If you fast in order that others see that you are fasting, then you have your reward.“ In other words, we have our payment in full. We see ourselves, and others see us as self-disciplined, but that is as far as the labor takes us. In this sense we become the most pitiable of all men, because we are acting as if there is no resurrection. If the things we do in this world, including religious things, are done for ourselves and to build up our own egos then they will eventually turn to dust. The love that has been revealed to us is self-emptying. 
In our day to hold fast to such an understanding can only seem absurd for in no way does it fit with the wisdom of the world. Only by keeping our eyes fixed upon God and fixed upon Jesus Christ and him crucified do we let go of the illusion not only of being the self-made man, but the self-made Christian. Religious people are not in capable of having their own delusions. In fact, the delusion of being religious can be the greatest among them and the most difficult to overcome. It is only when the cross is firmly rooted in the mind and the heart and when we have allowed ourselves to be humbled by it do we then become free; free, not for ourselves or to serve ourselves, but free to love others and God. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 beginning Step 22 on Vainglory
 
00:29:13 Anthony: Should we be looking at our works this way? I had thoughtbit was a heresy to believe that any thing we do, even every good thing, is infected with sin.
 
00:39:14 David Swiderski: Are the references to Fulton Sheen from Treasure in Clay?
 
00:39:44 Louise: Can we say that vain glory is present as soon as we identify with something, anything?
 
00:40:55 Louise: What inner attitude could counter vain glory? Maybe vulnerability, fortitude, and yet a complete dependency on God.
 
00:43:49 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I suffer the vainglory of fantasizing about meeting with someone or doing something in the future that will bring someone
 
00:44:07 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: someone's conversion and blessing.
 
00:55:09 Anthony: That was a very uncomfortable movie.
 
00:59:44 Ashley Kaschl: Father, you posted something this week by Evely that has really stuck with me, “…whereas you were trying to use even your first move of confidence towards God in order not to entrust yourself truly to Him, but to try to make him enter into your plans, like a pawn, like a pawn on your chess board. It is only when you accepted to be a pawn in his hand and in his plan, that you liberated your hope and his action." 
 
I think this relates to paragraphs 6 and 11 because, in the same way, the believing idolater or the flatterer uses God, and manipulates every good, as a means to their own end, for their own glory. I’m reminded of St. John Paul II saying, to a friend who asked him why God would let him suffer an assassination attempt and being shot that, “there is nothing better than to be a tool in the hand of God.” I think the vainglorious seeks control and betrays God for human honor or a perception of strength, and would rather put on airs than be changed internally, than to be docile to the will of God.
 
01:05:17 Maureen Cunningham: What the difference between Praise and Flattery
 
01:14:32 Kate: When one looks back and sees how much one has done not for God but for self, it can be very painful realization.  Yet what is so amazing is that God in His Providence was still very much at work during those times even when we were not seeking first His Kingdom.
 
01:14:37 David Swiderski: There is a tradition in my family with my grandfather, father and I try. When someone thanks them they say - don't thank me, thank God I am able.
 
01:14:53 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "When one looks back …" with ❤️
 
01:15:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "When one looks back ..." with ❤️
 
01:15:14 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "There is a tradition…" with ❤️
 
01:15:32 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is a tradition..." with ❤️
 
01:16:17 David Swiderski: It seems to help to realize nothing is inherent in you but flows from God.
 
01:19:24 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing thank you
 
01:19:30 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:19:31 sharonfisher: And with your spirit. Thanks!
 
01:19:32 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 
01:19:34 Ambrose Little, OP: Gracias!
 
01:19:37 sue and mark: Thank you FR. Abernethy
 
01:19:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:43 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:19:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 🙂 Thanks!

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXI: On Unmanly and Puerile Cowardice, Part I

Anxiety, it has been said, is ubiquitous. We all experience it and in its many manifestations. On a purely psychological level, one can never get to the heart or source of this feeling and its accompanying isolation. Often we find ourselves desperate to free ourselves from its grip. Therefore, we either immerse ourselves in the things of this world and maintain the illusion of security or we become paralyzed by it completely. 
The desert fathers including St. John Climacus, however, remind us that through the incarnation everything about what it is to be a human being has been assumed and embraced by our Lord, including this experience that often plagues our existence. Christ is the source of all healing and in and through our immersion in His life through the sacraments and prayer we begin to enter into the peace of the kingdom. We are commanded in the Scriptures not to have any anxiety at all. However, this is not simply a command but a promise of grace and strength. If we hold on to our faith in the Lord, if we truly hope in his promises, then all anxiety and fear will flee.  To call upon the name of Jesus is to flog our enemies; meaning not only the temptations that come to us from the demons, but the fears that they would insert into our minds and hearts. 
To mourn over one’s sin, to acknowledge the brevity of our life, is the set aside all illusion and false security. It leads us to cling to Christ who is life and love. So often we too like the disciples are foolish and slow of heart to believe. Yet in Christ even the most improbable of things becomes possible - that in the soul dedicated to God fear and cowardice disappears.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:02 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163 Step 21
 
00:19:55 LauraLeigh: In #2, is he saying that this "old soul" should know better than to give in to cowardice?
 
00:23:10 Eric Ewanco: Fear is a lack of trust in God
 
00:23:13 Louise: Fear arises when we read a situation as a threat, while boldness arises when we read a situation as a challenge. With Christ, maybe we should see  all situations as challenges which we can face with Him.
 
00:24:09 Cindy Moran: Pray for me I lost my wallet today Yes I am anxious.
 
00:25:22 Rebecca Thérèse: I'll pray for you Cindy
 
00:25:26 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:25:36 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Pray for me I lost m..." with 🙏
 
00:28:37 Louise: Why are even Catholics so afraid of dying? I do not understand.
 
00:29:42 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:31:31 David Swiderski: It is interesting I lived and traveled in very insecure areas with lots of kidnappings, random shootings/killings, widespread stealing where your car often is going in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil and I found people of amazing faith. Here were there is comfort and more lonleiness anxiety seems widespread.
 
00:35:45 wayne: Replying to "Pray for me I lost m..."
 
pray to St Anthony always helps, has worked for me
 
00:43:55 TFredman: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏
 
00:45:36 maureencunningham: How did Moses come to Christ
 
00:49:28 Michael Abele: I am not afraid for my own safety, but sometimes I fear for the
people I care for and protect
 
00:51:23 LauraLeigh: I love that. "Flog your enemies with the Name of Jesus." I'm going to remember that.
 
00:53:08 Lori Hatala: I think God gave me enough sense not to purposely put myself in a harmful situation. ot avoiding all but knowing what to stay away from.
 
00:54:40 Eric Ewanco: ChatGPT summarizes his conversion thusly: Saint Moses the Black, once a violent bandit, sought refuge among desert monks in Egypt. Impressed by their peace and patience, he converted to Christianity, became a monk, and later an abbot, renowned for his deep spirituality and wisdom. He was martyred defending his monastery.
 
00:55:12 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "ChatGPT summarizes h..." with ❤️
 
00:55:37 LauraLeigh: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..."
 
I believe I read that he had about 70 monks under his care by the time he died.
 
00:55:43 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..."
 
yes
 
00:57:14 Lawrence Martone: Perhaps Ignatian “agere contra” can help us deal with fear, always trusting in Christ.
 
01:04:37 Michael Abele: Meant to phrase my earlier comment as a question: can the same be said about fearing for the sake of others? I suppose that can also get out of hand if we do not trust God
 
01:08:24 Jeff O.: Are barrenness of soul and spiritual desolation as Ignatius tends to identify it somewhat the same here? Or is he getting at something else?
 
01:10:28 David Swiderski: Jacobs Ladder the movie. All I saw were demons torturing and tearing at me but then I looked again and they were angels freeing me from the attachments of life.
 
01:11:17 Ashley Kaschl: Paragraph 9 is reminding me of the recent Gospel reading of Jesus calling Peter to walk on the water. Water generally represents chaos in scripture, something unformed or in turmoil. And I think also, if we believe wholeheartedly that we are made in the image of God, and the longer we spend in His presence, the more we are revealed as ourselves in that identity, it is almost as though overcoming temporal and animalistic fear is like passing through raging waters, to be “meeked” by the grace of God so that even our fears are rightly ordered.
 
01:12:53 Ashley Kaschl: Part 2: (sorry it’s long) if then, we are filled with this grace to have such a disposition as to be unmoving and freed from other fears, then we are always being filled. St. Bernard of Clairvaux says, “The man who is wise, therefore, will see his life as more like a reservoir than a canal. The canal simultaneously pours out what it receives; the reservoir retains the water till it is filled, then discharges the overflow without loss to itself. Today there are many in the Church who act like canals, the reservoirs are far too rare ... You too must learn to await this fullness before pouring out your gifts, do not try to be more generous than God.”
 
01:15:17 Ambrose Little, OP: (No need to read this aloud, Father): Would appreciate your prayers for my surgery tomorrow morning. It's supposed to be minor/outpatient. The post-op recovery/adaptation period is long, though. I'm optimistic for a good result. Thanks in advance! 
🙏🏻🙏🏻
 
01:15:46 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏
 
01:15:52 Art: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏
 
01:15:54 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:15:54 TFredman: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:15:55 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:02 Brian L: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:03 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:16:10 Jeff O.: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:17:29 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Part 2: (sorry it’s ..."
 
Love this. Very meaningful and helpful to me right now. ❤️
 
01:19:50 sue and mark: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏
 
01:21:26 LauraLeigh: Father, just a reminder to check out Protecting Veil on YT. He's run Fr. Freeman, too.
 
01:21:44 Ambrose Little, OP: The intro to the hours of prayer is always good when feeling afraid: God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me!
 
01:22:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "The intro to the hou..." with 👍
 
01:22:32 LauraLeigh: The only thing I stumble on is that cowardice seems to mean fear or anxiety, but I tend to think of it a little differently. Need to sit with this for a while.
 
01:22:47 Michael Abele: Don't angels usually open with "be not afraid" when they make an appearance? I always thought they'd be a little scary to encounter, in an awe inspiring way.
 
01:23:00 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Don't angels usually…" with 💯
 
01:23:08 Barbara: Do the Eastern Fathers call upon the blood of Jesus as protection or
as dissolution of fears?
 
01:23:43 Susan M: I THINK IT IS PS 70.1
 
01:23:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Don't angels usually..."
 
Definitely as described by Ezekiel. 🙂
 
01:24:07 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "The intro to the hou…" with 👍
 
01:24:32 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70...." with 👍🏻
 
01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Don't angels usually..." with 💯
 
01:24:40 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70.…" with 👍🏻
 
01:25:03 Audrey C. Block: Had great fears this morning; went to Sacrifice of the Mass and still great fears( poor healthx6mos plus many other challenges)sat by Jesus in the Tabernacle and begged His healp over and over, finally by 30 min fears ALL gone!
 
01:25:36 Rachel: Ou rparish is in a rough neighborhood. Two contrasting experiences...one, a while back during a parish event that ran late I entered the chapel forgetting the roughness of the neighborhood. Upon leaving I rralized that no other person, except Our Lord present in the Blessed Sacrament was with me.
 
01:26:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Ps 46:1-3 is good meditation for this, too.
 
01:26:18 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Had great fears this…" with ❤️
 
01:26:25 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Had great fears this..." with ❤️
 
01:26:38 Rachel: Yet, recently the same situation, I entered the chapel alone, and even with this reading in mind, but, it took all of my strength not to look over my shoulder at every small sound in the dark!
 
01:26:55 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me…" with 🔥
 
01:27:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Had great fears th..." with ❤️
 
01:28:56 Rachel: There was no one in the chapel
 
01:29:04 Rachel: It was at night at dark
 
01:29:07 Lawrence Martone: Leiva-Merikakis has a remarkable reflection on the calming of the sea. (Mt. 8:23-27). Just one sentence: “The Savior is redeeming his disciples by making his profound serenity as God inhabit the same space as their frantic despair.”
 
01:29:16 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 😍
 
01:29:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me..."
 
God is for us a refuge and strength,
a helper close at hand, in time of distress: so we shall not fear though the earth should rock, though the mountains fall into the depths of the sea, even though its waters rage and foam, even though the mountains be shaken by its waves. (Abbey Psalter)
 
01:29:29 Ashley Kaschl: Replying to "Leiva-Merikakis has …"
LOVE him 🔥
 
01:29:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis ha..." with ❤️
 
01:29:48 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 🔥
 
01:30:04 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️
 
01:30:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️
 
01:30:58 Cindy Moran: I am so distraught that I almost didn't log on tonight...thank you
Father & Everyone for prayers. I don't feel so overwhelmed now. Thanks be to God. Bless you all.
 
01:31:30 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I am so distraught t..." with ❤️
 
01:31:54 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I am so distraught t…" with ❤️
 
01:32:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:32:34 iPhone: Thank you.  Very helpful.
 
01:33:03 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:33:06 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and God bless you.  good night.
 
01:33:07 maureencunningham: Thanks
 
01:33:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:33:09 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:33:11 Rachel: Thank you all. Thank you
 
01:33:16 David Swiderski: Thank you father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XX: On Bodily Vigil, Part II

All that was to be redeemed had also then to be assumed in the Incarnation. All that is human and all that is part of the human experience must be embraced by Christ in order that it might be healed by his grace. 
We are shown this in a very simple way in regards to one of our basic appetites as human beings - sleep. Like any other appetite, it must be ordered rightly; otherwise, it can end up stealing half of our life. Rather than being drawn into the rest of contemplation, we are often pulled into something much less helpful. Instead of engaging He who is Reality, Life and Love, we often seek to escape these things and enter into sleep or the myriad of ways that we can escape reality. 
Therefore, when it comes to prayer, we are often embattled. Sleep can come upon us quickly or we can be drawn to direct or attention to the work of our hands. The Evil One can stimulate the mind at just the right time to pull us away from the comfort and consolation of God into conversation, food, sleep, etc. We must understand that we are engaged in a spiritual battle. When the devil sees us engaging in spiritual warfare, when he sees us developing the discipline of prayer, he will immediately seek to afflicted us with temptations and fantasies the moment the prayer is finished. He will try to snatch away from us the first fruits of the soul. 
We can understand, then, why John tells us that bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil or alertness. We need to be alert not to protect ourselves from the things of this world, but from the darkness that would enter into our hearts if we do not guard them.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 162 para 10
 
00:09:06 angelo: Reacted to "page 162 para 10" with 👍
 
00:25:49 Maureen Cunningham: did they recite the Psalms as prayer
 
00:35:46 Louise: Television induces a trance in most people.
 
00:43:26 Louise: Another feature of watching television is that we become what we contemplate.
 
00:45:25 carol nypaver: Amen!🤣
 
00:46:11 Anthony: Recreation,  re-creation, takes work, and I find it's easy just to watch, but it is agitating and like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football, it's a recurrent trap around 10pm.
 
00:47:25 Eric Ewanco: This is a general question that's been percolating for a while in my mind as I've been listening to the sessions: Sometimes the desert fathers come across like salvation is so difficult to achieve that it would tempt me to despair, if I were to give it credence. Can you comment on their perspective, and also what they believed the chances of a layperson to be saved was?
 
00:47:33 Cindy Moran: I've worked in broadcast TV for 43 years. It's the last thing I pick for relaxation.
 
00:48:10 Ren Witter: Who was it who said: “I have learned a great deal from television, because, every time it is put on, I leave the room and read a book” ? 🤣 I don’t remember, but I thought it was great at the time.
 
00:49:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Who was it who said:..." 
 
 Groucho Marx said this.
 
00:52:15 Bonnie's iPad (2): In fact it can be quite shocking as to how quickly this can occur.
 
00:53:01 Art: Reacted to "Who was it who said:..." with 👍
 
00:53:13 John: I seem to be especially vulnerable to attacks right after Confession - including getting stuck behind a slow driver (the most annoying thing for a New Yorker... 🙂 so I've tried to become very vigilant at that time.
 
00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I seem to be especia..." with 😅
 
00:56:27 sue and mark: I remember hearing a priest say that "a saint is not someone who never fell, they just did not make friends with the dirt"  It is not the falling but the getting back up over and over again, according to this priest.
 
00:57:12 Bonnie's iPad (2): Reacted to "I seem to be especia…" with 👌
 
01:03:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Who was it who said:..."
 
Say it in your head with his style of speaking—classic. 🙂
 
01:04:03 Lawrence Martone: It is hard to find a priest/confessor who really understands spiritual warfare and dealing with attacks from demons.  The demons zero in on your weakest points, especially in retaliation after times of holiness and grace.  It can result in deep despondency, or anger, with a total absence of peace.
 
01:04:27 Lee Graham: Saints fall down and get up
 
01:05:05 John: Reacted to "It is hard to find a..." with 👍
 
01:05:38 Eric Ewanco: There is an agraphon (word of Jesus not in the Gospels) recorded
in the Byzantine Anointing of the Sick service that goes "As any times as you fall, arise, and you shall be saved".
 
01:06:14 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is an agraphon..." with 👍
 
01:07:33 Anthony: Sometimes I've used Frederick Neitsche in a way to help me. Exert the will not to stay in despondency. Despite emotional feeling, maintain a deep determination to hope.
 
01:09:38 Cindy Moran: I read that EWTN has a new series on The Desert Father's starting Aug 20
 
01:09:52 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I read that EWTN has..." with ❤️
 
01:12:51 Cindy Moran: 😄
 
01:13:13 Anthony: That's a mistake I believe the Puritans made.
 
01:14:58 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:41 John: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:15:49 Krissy: Thank you Fathet
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XX: On Bodily Vigil, Part I

The healing of the soul! So often we lose sight of the meaning of the spiritual life and the disciplines that we embrace. We often look at them as being punitive or requiring us to give up something that we enjoy or take pleasure in. We can lose sight very quickly of the presence of God even in the practice of prayer. 
This came forward when we discussed this evening something such as vigils. Rarely is the practice of vigil (breaking one’s sleep to rise and pray at night) ever discussed as a valuable exercise for those not only living in a monastery. To order our appetite for sleep and to break the night for prayer is seen as nonsensical or something that could jeopardize one’s health and well-being or one’s capacity to work. 
What we find in the spiritual tradition, however, is a far different vision. Bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil; that is, spiritual vigilance or alertness. Arising during the quiet of the night, humbled in mind and body, one is able to enter into the deep silence of prayer and receive more freely what God desires to give us. Not experiencing the impediment of worldly distractions or the distractions of a multitude of thoughts we are able to open the mind and the heart to God fully. And in doing so we can also experience the deepest healing. 
We begin to lose the desire to escape from reality in the things of this world or in sleep. The opening of the mind and the heart to God through deep prayer can bring about the repairing even of the deepest trauma caused by our own sin or the sins of others. God can pass freely into the deepest recesses of the human heart that learns how to become vulnerable to Him over time through the experience of His love and compassion. Trust emerges and with it hope.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:48 Nathan: (Thx Father, I'm using the Paulist Press CWS edition so that's helpful)
 
00:22:34 sharonfisher: I thought it was my dog whining! Lol
 
00:31:01 Maureen Cunningham: Page please, Thank You
 
00:31:29 Kevin Burke: 161
 
00:31:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you
 
00:35:59 John: Would practicing vigils have a positive effect on being subject to deceptive dreams? I've gone down numerous dead ends in the past trying to interpret dreams, or thinking that they were pre-cognitive, but most of them turned out to be mirages.
 
00:56:56 John: Sounds like vigils are a gateway to "the meat ye know not of."
 
00:58:43 Louise: Maybe the Beloved has given people insomnia (waking up in the middle of the night) so we can turn to ward Him during this quiet time.
 
01:00:56 Maureen Cunningham: sleep does not become your master,
 
01:02:20 Anthony: On vigils, prayers, rosaries,  looking at God as the other
imposing an obligation on me makes these annoying. But maybe looking at God as the Other Who gave me His image as an integral part of myself would make vigils, etc desirable.
 
01:03:19 Kate: Father, would you have any advice on how to begin the practice of vigils for someone who does not have a spiritual director who could help incorporate this practice in the interior life?
 
01:06:09 Anthony: The cell becomes hell
 
01:13:13 Anthony: The 3 Apostles slept in the Garden out of sorrow.  I'll have disordered sleep out of sorrow.
 
01:15:29 Lee Graham: Prayer changes us
 
01:18:12 Ren Witter: Yea. The “type and number” narrative about confession really makes the sacrament so transactional, and more like a bad experience with your doctor than an encounter with God.
 
01:18:15 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I had a priest say that to me in the confessional.  It did hurt and surprise me.  I've never forgotten it, obviously.
 
01:18:58 sue and mark: Reacted to "Yea. The “type and n..." with 👍
 
01:21:46 Greg C: Good comments, Ren.  We aren't a vehicle to be serviced.
 
01:21:47 Maureen Cunningham: You can not easily see a Doctor they zoom
 
01:25:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You ,
 
01:26:12 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:26:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIX: On Sleep, Prayer, and Psalmody with the Brotherhood

When we think of appetites or bodily desires, we rarely consider something such as sleep. Yet this evening St. John shows us that sleep is something that can disrupt that which is most important for the spiritual life; our prayer. Sleep is certainly an essential need that we have as human beings. However, there are many reasons that we can be drawn into it excessively. One of these is human nature of course. However, sleep can come upon us from an excess of food, from the temptation of demons, and also from extreme or prolonged fasting. Thus, sleeping is important for us to consider closely.  Excessive sleeping can become a long-standing habit that is difficult to cure. 
It may be difficult for us to think of demons having an impact upon us in this fashion. Yet, when the bell rings for prayer or when the alarm goes off in the morning we can hear a voice within our minds say “Wait, give yourself a little more rest.” In modern days the snooze alarm allows us to extend this indefinitely and we begin our days, perhaps lacking prayer altogether. We can also experience the sensation of severe and unusual pains in the stomach or fits of yawning or even waves of laughter over some amusing incident that comes to mind or takes place within the church. 
The same sluggishness in getting out of bed can follow us into the practice of prayer itself. We can hurry through our prayers; saying them inattentively and allowing the mind to wander. We can enter into church without the proper demeanor or making signs of devotion. When these patterns of behavior take over then the demons will certainly make sport of us. To combat this St. John encourages common prayer where we unite ourselves with others in this most essential practice of calling out to God. In this, we can call to mind Jesus’ own words, “Where two or three are gathered, there I am in their midst.“ 
Often in our day with the breakdown of Christian culture and community, those living in the world, sadly, find themselves left to pray on their own. However, we are not left to ourselves. Through the Hours or the Divine Office we were able to pray with one mind and heart with the Church throughout the world. A deep mystical Communion exist when we engage in the prayer of the Church. 
All this is meant to be a simple reminder to us about the subtle things that can distract us at the time of prayer. Therefore, St. John tells us that the practice of prayer itself purifies our hearts and increases our zeal and love for God. The more that we engage in the discipline of prayer, the greater our capacity to rout the demons!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 160 starting Step 19
 
00:38:58 sharonfisher: Yes, agree, but we’re not taught properly. (Re:genuflecting) Our western church has cradle Orthodox attendees from time to time. The grace of this one woman’s entrance and adoration was truly beautiful. I asked how she ‘learned’, but sh said she’d just grown up  with the reverence displayed.
 
00:42:15 sharonfisher: We need a manual to get us started! lol
 
00:43:15 Anthony: The older generation was taught a kind of theology that emphasizes human community.  So I think they were misled, thinking they are doing right by having socialization in church.
 
00:48:09 Lawrence Martone: Re: solitary prayer”for the very few’”  Some Third Order members are required to pray the office daily and spend at least 30 minutes in mental prayer daily - along with other requirements (but not under the pain of sin if missed).  Only at monthly meetings can we pray lauds or vespers in community.  Basically, we have no choice but to pray in solitude for the most part.
Isn’t that true of most lay people also?
 
00:51:51 Louise: Basically, demons are trying to make us turn our attention away from the Beloved. Yet, our present culture is ferociously made up of distractions, engineered with distractions.
 
00:52:26 TFredman: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
We used to pray Vespers following the 5:15 p.m. Mass Mon-Sat. This was a great blessing to us lay folk. I miss it.
 
00:52:58 Barbara: Would that we would become attentive to one another!
 
00:54:07 Lori Hatala: I find it frustrating when the windows are being closed before the priest even leaves the alter.
 
00:54:10 sharonfisher: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Does attending live streamed services count? (Hoping yes)
 
00:54:57 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
To TFredman,
 
00:55:08 Anthony: We can thank (intentional?) city planning and the heresy of Americanism for harming ethnic Catholic identity.
 
00:55:18 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Yes, I would feel the same way.
 
00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
Certainly it is better to pray alone than not at all. As one such 3rd order member, I have found the Office to be a tremendous anchor to my spiritual life—even though in most cases I am alone.
 
00:55:47 Lori Hatala: I tend to go to silent prayer when someone leading  or loudly praying is rushing through it.
 
00:58:09 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..."
 
There’s a benefit to individual prayer in that there is time to pause and meditate on things that strike you. Can’t really do that in community.
 
00:58:52 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️
 
00:59:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️
 
00:59:12 sue and mark: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️
 
01:02:15 Susan M: I personally am very grateful for ZOOM
 
01:02:35 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with 👌
 
01:03:21 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm very grateful for Zoom and livestreamed prayer.
 
01:07:39 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "We can thank (intent..."
 
E. Michael Jones - “The Slaughter of Cities.”
 
01:08:09 sharonfisher: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️
 
01:10:14 Susan M: Henri Nouwen was my teacher for 3 courses 1971-74. Very blessed time.
 
01:10:55 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I find it frustratin…" with 😇
 
01:11:35 TFredman: Reacted to "I personally am very..." with 👌
 
01:11:39 carol: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:11:45 TFredman: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:13:52 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️
 
01:14:22 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with ❤️
 
01:15:04 Cindy Moran: Great session, thank you Father
 
01:15:12 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 
01:15:21 Rory: Thanks, father
 
01:15:21 Deiren Masterson: God bless Father
 
01:15:30 Courtney Wiley: Thank you Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XVIII: On Insensibility

Darkness, whatever its source, cannot be driven out or overcome by mere force of will or through reason. The fathers reveal to us a darkness that exists within the human heart like no other - insensibility. It is a deadening of the soul and the death of the mind before the death of the body. We all have our vulnerabilities and have experienced wounds on both spiritual and emotional levels. To address this darkness requires an even greater trust in the grace of God to guide us through it and to provide us with what is necessary for healing. Each person is unique and with certain predispositions, including the predisposition to a more melancholic or morose state of mind. Furthermore, the human mind and heart are ever so changeable. 
It is also how the evil one can use these things to distort our vision of reality. We can be engaged in the religious and spiritual life and speaking about it and yet this can mask not only a sham piety but something even darker. We can live in the dark so long that it becomes the place of comfort. To move toward the light can be painful, especially if one has experienced trauma. 
More than any of the passions the remedy for this darkness consists of relying upon the grace of God and being drawn into the tenderness of Christ’s love. When our trust has been destroyed, we must allow Him to rebuild it. Where desire has been lost, we must wait for the Beloved to come to us to stir it into flame. Where wounds are so deep that they seem irreparable, it is only He who is the Lord of Life who can re-create us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:13:51 Susan M: Thank you for introducing me to the Optina Monastery and Elders! Am buying the recommended book.
 
00:26:47 John: Are all these internal contradictions the same as hypocrisy, or is that a different malady?
 
00:39:22 sharonfisher: That’s so interesting. I find myself unwilling to be around these really negative people. I love them, but I have my own issues battling depression. It’s hard to do both at once.
 
00:50:23 Ren Witter: I wonder - would these people really appear very negative on the exterior? So much of the description involves teaching or speaking, and most often those who take up that role are very dynamic and charismatic personalities. It seems like the melancholy aspect might kind of hidden.
 
01:01:36 Kate: Fr. David, Is this also known as sloth?  Or is that a different vice?
 
01:01:41 Ren Witter: I’ve been told that this, or something very similar to it, can be caused by a traumatic event - particularly one involving the Church in some way. Are fasting and vigils still the only way to begin fighting it in that case?
 
01:06:20 Ren Witter: “He and I” is also a very good one.
 
01:06:43 carol nypaver: Can you please repeat the name of the French priest and his book?
 
01:07:21 Louise: Gaston Courtois is the name of the French priest.
 
01:07:31 carol nypaver: Thank you!
 
01:09:32 David Swiderski: My experience is this often is connected to resentment and lack of detachment. Anyone digging up wounds from the past or worrying about the future cannot help themselves from falling into despair.
 
01:13:25 Louise: In my clinical experience, it was my willingness as a psychotherapist to be there with the, to remain with them despite the intensity of their pain, which was healing - I did not abandon them as they were experiencing abandonment depression from early childhood.
 
01:17:10 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:10 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:17:15 David Swiderski: Thanks father!
 
01:17:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XVI: On Avarice, Part II and Chapter XVII, On Non-Possessiveness, Part I

Freedom! We often associate this word with our own rights in this world or our capacity to do as we will and go where we want. A kind of promise is put out to us - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 
Yet the image of freedom that is put before us by the saints and by Saint John in particular is attached to our willingness to be “detached” from the things of the world. God created all things good but in our sin our tendency is to idolize them. We seek our identity and happiness in the things of this world and we work ourselves to the point of exhaustion to protect these things as well as ourselves from others. We do not want to lose what we have or what we have earned. 
Yet we very quickly learn that this is no real happiness. In fact, it is the root of all evils. The deeper that root becomes, the greater our desire for the things of this world grows. It begins to produce the fruit of hatred, thefts, envy, separations, enmities, storms, remembrance of wrong, hardheartedness, and murderers. Therefore, what we hold up as having so much value for ourselves, and what seems to promise us freedom and safety eventually becomes our prison or the shackles that bind us. It is only in having tasted the things above that one begins to find joy, freedom from care, and the loss of anxiety. If we obtain this virtue, John tells us, we run the race with the swiftness of athletes of old - that is, stripped and unimpeded. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Yes happy birthday!
 
00:11:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Yes happy birthday!" with 🎂
 
00:15:23 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy,
 
00:15:50 Lawrence Martone: What is your opinion of The Noon Day Devil book?
 
00:22:32 Connor: Re: point 1 - Prayer of the Last Optina Elders:
 
O Lord, grant me to greet the coming day in peace, help me in all things to rely upon your holy will. 
In every hour of the day reveal your will to me.
Bless my dealings with all who surround me. 
Teach me to treat all that comes to throughout the day with peace of soul and with firm conviction that your will governs all. 
In all my deeds and words, guide my thoughts and feelings. 
In unforeseen events, let me not forget that all are sent by you. 
Teach me to act firmly and wisely, without embittering and embarrassing others. 
Give me strength to bear the fatigue of the coming day with all that it shall bring. 
Direct my will, teach me to pray. 
And you, yourself, pray in me. 
Amen.
 
00:26:01 Susan M: Father, who are the last Optina Elders?
 
00:28:04 Connor: Guess I’m the quote guy today:
 
“All our peace in this sad life lieth in humble suffering rather than in not feeling adversities. He who best knoweth how to suffer shall possess the most peace; that man is conqueror of himself and lord of the world, the friend of Christ, and the inheritor of heaven.” — a Kempis (Imitation of Christ)
 
00:31:14 Eric Ewanco: Do we know the Greek for "non-possessive" (my translation uses "poor"/"poverty" but I like your translation better)?
 
00:31:52 Connor: Replying to "Father, who are the …"
“Over the course of one century—from Elder Leonid's arrival in 1829 until the Monastery's forced closure by the Communists in 1923—Optina, with its Skete of St. John the Forerunner, was at the center of a tremendous spiritual revival in Russia.”
 
https://orthochristian.com/65171.html
 
00:31:59 John: Replying to "Do we know the Greek..."
 
So does mine (archive.org).
 
00:32:39 Connor: I was responding to a question Father, no need to read it lol.
 
00:35:18 Susan M: Thank you.
 
00:37:14 Connor: Replying to "Do we know the Greek…"
ἀκτημοσύνης in response to Greek for non-possessiveness. Literally “landless.”
 
00:45:31 Anthony: To forget the Beatific Vision is to merely fight the devil mostly conscious of your own efforts.  Been there.  Done that / Doing that. Not healthy.
 
00:52:44 Connor: St. Louis de Montfort famously got into bar fights over Our Lady’s honor… even after his ordination…
 
00:57:03 Anthony: Regarding "principles" in our Anglo-American world it seems to me some of our principles have been developed and used to harden us against conscience and towards vice.
 
00:57:16 Louise: I find that it is mostly the human gesture and the smile in return that is the gift, beyond the money given; the person feels treated as a human being at this moment.
 
00:57:41 Anthony: Reacted to "I find that it is mo..." with ❤️
 
00:57:49 Anthony: Replying to "I find that it is mo..." 
 
I agree
 
01:18:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you
 
01:18:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part XI and Chapter XVI: On Avarice, Part I

The Mystery of the Human Person! 
What comes forward in the ascetical writings of the fathers is not a moralistic or legalistic view of sin. Rather, we see within them a deep understanding of the complex beauty and dignity of the human person despite often being marred by sin. Perhaps too often we emphasize the negative; rather than fostering a desire both for God and for virtue and for the freedom and joy that it brings to the human heart. 
Like so many of the fathers, Saint John describes certain passions as a disease in need of remedy. While we must be disciplined in so many ways and vigilant in our thoughts, we never want to lose sight of how God has created us; that it is through our very being that we love and give ourselves in love. We are not meant to hate ourselves but rather sin. Self-contempt can often be our demise in the spiritual life. True love of the self begins with the desire for God; not with self-indulgence or laziness that reduces and diminishes the image we have of creation and our own goodness.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:42 Ashley Kaschl: I was trying to say we have a diocesan hermit so if you DO want to stay, he’s got room haha
 
00:34:50 Louise: An amazing movie just came out, called 'Sound of Freedom, about combatting child sex trafficking. Being a trauma therapist myself, I can only fathom that pedophilia is due to demonic influence. These people are untreatable. What are your thoughts?
 
00:35:22 carol nypaver: It was a very informative and well-done film!
 
00:36:43 David Swiderski: Doesn't abuse of food or lust devalue these things. I know when I break a long fast water taste sweeter, food is savored and so when we truly develop love rather than just physical attraction or objectification. The diamond is often hidden by the dirt on the outside.
 
00:39:33 Louise: By the way, 2.5% of priests abuse children sexually, 5% of physicians, and 10% of school teachers, according to three studies.
 
00:44:21 Art: What do you mean Father?
 
00:55:03 Charbel & Justin: “Prefer nothing to the love of God.”
 
01:10:59 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! I must go.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: I am friends with many people who are constantly worried about money, about their paychecks, jobs, etc. and it prevents them from choosing to move forward in their potential vocations, so they put it off and put it off and put it off. I think some of the downsides of our culture, and even the mindset of many who come out of universities today, is this absolute concern about climbing the ladder in their jobs or this habit formed to always look for “greener grass”/better opportunities. And this demand of function over substance makes me think of a quote by CS Lewis: 
 
“In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”
 
01:16:42 John: There's an old Rod Serling movie about the corporate mindset (ladder-climbing) called "Patterns."
 
01:17:16 Monk Maximos: Good night
 
01:17:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️
 
01:17:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:17:56 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:18:04 Art: Thank you!
 
01:18:17 Jeff O.: 🎉🎉🎉
 
01:18:22 Monk Maximos: Flying to the Holy Land on Saturday. Will be praying for you.
 
01:18:30 David Swiderski: Have a wonderful Birthday Father!
 
01:18:34 Eric Ewanco: happy birthday!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part X

The fathers have often been accused of having a negative anthropology; that is, a negative view of the human person and human nature. However, as we read through St. John’s teachings on chastity and purity, we begin to see that their understanding arises from a very high and exalted anthropology. Their understanding of how God has made us, the beauty that is expressed in our very nature is so high that we must respect its preciousness as a gift from God. Furthermore we must also respect the power that lies within us and that it is through this nature that we are able to love and give ourselves in love to others and serve God. 
 
Indeed, it is true that sin has darkened our vision of this truth and our will has often become weak so that we misuse our nature and the appetites associated with it. Yet, God looks upon us with mercy and compassion and gives us every aid for healing. It is the Evil One that becomes our accuser who tries through shame to draw us into despair. 
 
Part of the relentless nature of our struggle with these sins is that we are forever bound by nature to this body of ours. Yet we must remember in the struggle that the body is destined to put on immortality and incorruptibility by God’s grace. We are called all even now to make use of our body through the ascetic life to share in this incorruptibility through purity of heart.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What step?
 
00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 151 paragraph 76
 
00:20:36 Anthony: I wonder if "worm" means not the helpful compost bug, but is really the Anglo Saxon "wyrm" or dragon.
 
00:26:32 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "I wonder if "worm" m..." with 💡
 
00:27:51 Louise: Disgust and shame are useful emotions when we apply them onto our faults. Otherwise, we justify our faults. Would you say?
 
00:30:36 LauraLeigh: It seems to me that St Climacas, like other Desert Fathers, ask for a very difficult mental balance between being uber-humble while maintaining a healthy psychology. If you don't have a strong grip on your mental health, this ascetical lifestyle could trip you up or even take you down. Other than recommending a guide, like an elder, any thoughts about how we can cautiously yet profitably practice asceticism?
 
00:31:20 Anthony: I learned something,  I think from a talk by a Maronite. It can be helpful to pray Jesus Prayer in another language.  Sometimes that prevents thoughts in one's native tongue from arising in the mind.
 
00:34:39 LauraLeigh: I need to remember that the Fathers are talking to others already in the ascetical life. And then to remember to order everything toward God.
 
00:35:46 sue and mark: could it be said that simply looking for opportunities to practice self -restraint for the love of God is a good place to start.  especially in the areas of our passions.
 
00:36:06 angelo: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with 👍
 
00:42:13 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with ❤️
 
00:43:01 LauraLeigh: "The Way of the Ascetics"
 
00:46:46 carol nypaver: The Little Flower
 
00:52:15 Anthony: Remember: the demons don't play fair.
 
00:53:24 Cindy Moran: In the Classics of western spirituality version of the Ladder this verse translation is unclear to me
 
00:54:11 Cindy Moran: Yes.
 
00:54:40 Cindy Moran: I'm slow
 
00:56:14 Cindy Moran: Because the soul tormented by earlier sin is a burden to me I will save it from its enemies Lk 18:5
 
00:59:15 Cindy Moran: Much clearer to me now
 
01:05:31 LauraLeigh: Being proud of your sins is a sign of a darkened conscience, I think. And a sensitive and refined conscience is a great help in getting a handle on troubling or persistent sins. This is what I'm particularly working on.
 
01:06:36 angelo: Reacted to "Being proud of your ..." with 👍
 
01:08:26 Anthony: I think it also means that you've entrusted yourself to God,  He won't play legal games with that trust and so the evil thoughts are not as awful upon us as the devil wants us to think. Sure the devil is a deceiver and wants us to take full mortal sin culpability for what the demons sows.  But the struggle is evidence God loves you and takes your whole self and situation into account.
 
01:09:25 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with ❤️
 
01:10:30 angelo: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with 👍
 
01:10:37 Eric Ewanco: I've found it immensely consoling that empirical evidence from exorcisms establish that demons are extremely legalistic. The converse of this is that God is not. This is a great relief to me, as we often tend to see God as legalistic and looking for "gotchas"
 
01:12:08 John: After you've read Fr. Mateo's "Night Adoration in the Home," it's impossible to think of God as legalistic. He is the complete opposite!
 
01:12:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️
 
01:12:34 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️
 
01:12:50 LauraLeigh: Replying to "After you've read Fr..."
 
I have that! Thanks for the reminder!
 
01:13:05 Susan McShane: Reacted to "I've found it immens..." with ❤️
 
01:13:05 John: Replying to "After you've read Fr..."
 
👍
 
01:13:23 sue and mark: I have that too...
 
01:14:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr!
 
01:14:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session
 
01:15:02 Jeff O.: Thank you! Blessings
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part IX

Gustave Flaubert once wrote, “God is in the details.“ The truth of this statement is born out in this evening‘s writing from Saint John Climacus on the fathers’ understanding and description of the development of a passion within the soul. With great clarity, St. John takes us step-by-step through the inner movements of the mind and the heart. The battle begins with an assault. An image or an idea is encountered for the first time and enters into the heart. There’s no sin in this, but our response is important nonetheless. If we begin to converse with the image or idea its presence will take us a step further. We cannot allow ourselves to linger with such images even if we do not seem to be moved by them. Eventually, Saint John tells us, if we do linger we can fall into consent; the soul bends down, as it were, and begins to take delight in the temptation. Such temptations can also come upon us with force; seeking all at once to destroy any semblance of order or peace within the heart. What is important is that we struggle; that we engage in the spiritual battle and fight with equal or greater force against what seeks to afflict us. A passion develops whenever a sin nestles with persistence in the soul and forms a habit. It is then that the sins has put down deep roots and begins to guide and direct our decisions and actions. The passion is unequivocally condemned in every case.  St. John tells us, therefore, that we must seek to cut off the first assault with a single blow in order to prevent everything that might follow.
Finally, Saint John reveals to us just how humble we must be in the spiritual warfare. There are temptations that can come to us that he describes as a “flick of the mind”. They are instantaneous and inapprehensible.  There can be something in our life that triggers a memory or movement from the depths of our unconscious.  It gives rise to or stirs a passion that has not been healed, but merely buried. All of this teaches us that our desire must be directed toward God and God alone. The human heart can be a treacherous thing, and as the prophet asks, “who can trust it?“ It is God alone who we must trust. We must hope in his promises and the grace that he offers us from moment to moment. This is our path to healing.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 150 para 72
 
00:15:34 angelo: Reacted to "page 150 para 72" with 👍
 
00:19:25 Daniel Allen: Joined a little late, where are we at?
 
00:19:40 Bonnie Lewis: 72
 
00:19:55 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:20:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍🏻
 
00:20:37 Anthony: Read Agatha Christie, and this doesn't seem to strange.
 
00:40:17 Lawrence Martone: Pope Shenouda says “Be aware then, of the first step toward sin and run for your life.  You are not stronger than Adam…”
 
00:40:49 carol nypaver: 😲
 
00:43:16 Louise: Would you say that repentance involves feeling pain from having hurt another? This pain thus becomes a stimulus to possibly prevent the future repetition of this sin.
 
00:52:31 Anthony: A person can be so focused on avoiding temptation that the person's psychology or demons or something else can constantly bring to mind the thing to be avoided - kind of making the temptation always present.  Maybe it's an after-effect of eating from the tree we were not to eat.
 
01:06:49 Cindy Moran: Going postal
 
01:07:34 LauraLeigh: Blindsided.
 
01:10:31 Rory: May I speak
 
01:10:55 Patrick: Fr. David, can you please clarify the meaning of 'dispassion' in the last sentence of 15.74? Is it synonymous with asceticism in this context?
 
01:11:18 Anthony: But is he saying the flick of the mind actual moral guilt?  How much of this fault, how much is over-focus on the self?  Be focused too much on this, be too sensitive, and you can go nutty, not be a "man fully alive."  That's surely not good.  Our Lord was supremely sensitive to good and evil, but He was also self-possessed. 
It's possible even these saints went a little self-obsessed and accidentally project that forward to us.  It interferes with life to always be aware of every possibly evil and continually feel guilty.
 
01:16:31 Daniel Allen: How does this relate to Christ saying, “Do not let your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe in Me also.”
 
01:17:54 Daniel Allen: To expand on that question, if a flick of the mind can cast us into sin without any noticeable stimulus how does one not become troubled?
 
01:18:39 Ren Witter: Replying to "How does this relate..."
 
Maybe the context of that is pretty important in this case. At that moment he is speaking about his crucifixion. At the same time, he also says of the peace he wants his disciples to have: “not as the world gives it do I give it to you."
 
01:20:40 David Swiderski: One must quiet the mind to hear the voice of God who is like a whisper on the wind while the devil is a constant irritating  and rattling of the passions.
 
01:21:07 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "One must quiet the m..." with 👍🏻
 
01:21:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:14 Cindy Moran: Replying to "How does this relate..." 
 
 Thank you Father!
 
01:22:23 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
 
01:22:25 Bonnie Lewis: So beautiful.  Thank you Father David.
 
01:22:28 kevin: thanks Ren and Fr
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VIII

The beauty of virtue! So often we discuss the spiritual life as if the main goal or the end of it is simply the avoidance of sin. While avoiding sin certainly is essential, we are called to something far greater. What we received through the Paschal mystery and through our baptism is adoption as sons and daughters of God; the capacity by grace to share in the life of the Trinity. The fathers speak of deification. 
 
As we read through Saint John’s description of purity and chastity, these truths begin to manifest themselves. We engage in this constant struggle with our own appetites and with the temptations from the demons not simply to avoid sin, but to give and receive love in the way God intended; for that love to be rightly ordered and also, by grace, to become something that is supernatural. 
 
We are to love one another as Christ has loved us. It is often very difficult for us to understand this because more often than not we have never tasted the fruit of this virtue. We are surrounded by its opposite; and often have been immersed in that which is impure for most of our lives. Yet, even as we struggle for this virtue, we must not fall into a purely moralistic or legalistic view of life. It is through entering into the love of Christ and receiving that love through the holy Eucharist, that we are given the capacity to love in a selfless fashion. Furthermore, it is also through this Grace that we become capable of receiving such love without any impediment. May God open our eyes to the beauty of the life that He is made possible for us and the beauty of virtue!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63
 
00:10:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63 “When we are in the world for some necessity”
 
00:35:38 Louise: If King David repented, why did his kingdom went down so badly via his descendance (Solomon)?
 
00:45:49 Eric Ewanco: He's referring to Peter who Scripture said had a mother-in-law
 
00:48:07 Lawrence Martone: Regarding the question on David, I would highly recommend:
 
00:48:51 angelo: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:49:43 Louise: Thanks to both!
 
00:52:06 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:52:18 TFredman: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍
 
00:53:45 angelo: Replying to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg"
 
it is free on pdf file in St. Philopateer Coptic Orthodox website.
 
01:02:32 Anthony: Long ingrained habits can be at play.  In NY, I remember Talk Radio or Frank Sinatra etc often being in the background.  It can be uncomfortable not to have something in the background.
 
01:08:16 Cindy Moran: Th orthodox seem to have more involved night prayer in their books.
 
01:13:13 Cindy Moran: I've done that at times...LOL
 
01:15:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Until very recently it was common for everyone to have two sleeps broken by some kind of activity in the middle of the night even including going out and visiting others
 
01:18:12 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...Happy Father's Day, too!
 
01:18:17 angelo: thank you
 
01:18:19 TFredman: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and everyone!
 
01:18:19 Jeff O.: thank you!
 
01:18:19 David Swiderski: Thank you
 
01:18:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:28 kevin: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VII

As we continue our reading of Step 15 on purity and chastity, gradually we are being shown a broader vision of what is offered to us through the ascetical life. Purity and chastity are not limited to dealing with our sexual appetites. Rather, we are striving to overcome any impediment to our seeing things and loving things in the manner in which God created us. Our vision is often distorted by our sin to the extent that we will objectify the things of this world and individuals to be used in whatever means we see fit. We lose sight of the dignity of the other as well as the beauty of creation. A heart that has been purified is capable of seeing the presence of God in every person, regardless of their deeds, and in every element of creation. A pure heart is the freest in its capacity to love. 
Perhaps many of us have never tasted such a thing even in the smallest measure.  It is for this reason that St. John presents us not only with aids in the battle for purity, but also with the image of the highest degree of purity  we see in saintly individuals. They are often moved to tears when their capacity to see the world and others is elevated from the purely natural to the supernatural; to see the very essence and beauty of all things created by God.
---Text of chat during the group:
00:09:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 148 para 56
 
00:20:38 Lori Hatala: What is dwelling amongst the tombs?
 
00:21:08 Louise: They are suckling, not the breast but a bottle, nonetheless.
 
00:21:52 Anthony: St. Anthony the Great and St. Benedict were both assaulted by vivid images. It seems they are examples of struggle against the violence of images.  I think one of the Desert Mothers (Synclectica?) has a saying or two about this for women as well.
 
00:22:19 Rory: ?does God communicate through dreams?
 
00:25:46 angelo: The Jesus Prayer is also a great help.
 
00:34:51 Eric Ewanco: "a bruised reed he shall not break; a smoldering wick he shall not quench"
 
00:37:05 Patrick: St. John doesn't seem to often caution against attempting ascetical practices but seems to more often praise them. How does one balance gradually adding more over time while balancing a certain level of self-knowledge and identifying if, perhaps, it may be too much to apply a certain practice. Example: at least from my experience, vigils that impact getting a certain amount of sleep may seem to make fighting against various thoughts the next day more difficult. I suppose this must be discerned on a case-by-case basis since it seems nuanced in practice?
 
00:44:46 Nathan: I was thinking that sometimes as we 'rationally' reflect on these writings and concepts of ascesis or our various modes of living and ways of participating in the body of Christ that it helps us to remember that all of our relations and practices are to participate with Christ/Trinity in the wooing of all back into the intimate union of paradise and the kingdom - NOT so much discipline and effort but longing and love to restore full union between all and its dear God?
 
00:50:48 Rory: ?is there a presence of God in all people that can be seen?
 
00:50:50 Rachel: But perhaps it should be remembered that it is God Himself that reveals Himself in the other
 
00:52:26 Ashley Kaschl: Reminds me of a quote by Ven. Fulton Sheen: "Dear Lord, what can we, Thy followers, do to bring peace to the world? How can we stop brother rising up against brother and class against class, blurring the very sky with their cross-covered Golgathas?
Thy First Word on the Cross gives the answer: We must see in the body of every man who hates, a soul that was made to love. If we are too easily offended by their hate, it is because we have forgotten either the destiny of their souls or our own sins.
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Forgive us for ever having been offended. Then we, like Thee, may find among our executioners another Longinus, who had forgotten there was love in a heart until he opened it with a lance."
 
00:52:32 Rachel: That it is us who in the meantime patiently wait for Him to reveal himself, and grant this purity of heart and until then in all humilty know, that we guard our senses and hearts.. I only say this because it can be discouraging to find weakness so deeply rooted in our hearts
 
00:53:50 Nathan: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❣️
 
00:54:14 Ashley Kaschl: I love him 😂
 
00:54:23 Rachel: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with ❤️
 
00:54:23 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❤️
 
00:54:46 Louise: At the Traditional Latin Mass, there is a beautiful prayer, "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus! Heaven and earth are full of Your glory, …Alleluia, alleluia."
 
00:55:20 carol nypaver: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with 🥰
 
00:55:33 Rory: Jesus spoke of the Samaritan who helps the man on the road who was beaten, as an example of how we treat our neighbor as ourselves
 
00:55:37 Rachel: This was meant to be attached to the other comment but the class moves faster than I can type +)
 
00:56:00 Ann Grimak: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot…" with ❣️
 
01:00:21 Ashley Kaschl: That quote is either from his anthologies or from the little book of his sermons on the last seven words called “The Seven Capital Sins” it would be under the reflections on Anger/Wrath
 
01:00:53 Anthony: Maybe it would help to distinguish the different meanings of "sin" in the Bible and the Fathers.  It seems to me that one meaning is our general inclination to evil, another is entertaining what is wrong, another is doing what is wrong, another is "mortal sin."  These meanings maybe can get mixed up in our thinking about the Faith.  Sometimes the meaning "sin" seems univocal, but places like 1st John indicate that there are lots of meanings of "sin."
 
01:02:08 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Maybe it would help ..." with 👍
 
01:03:32 Rachel: What I was trying to touch upon was how we are supposed to see the other. With purity of heart. Amma Syncletica prayed that her heart would be pure towards all. This got me thinking many years ago about what that means. The purity of heart that Saint Climacus is speaking of is something rarely ever spoken of because many are stuck on the surface or, dont really know what it truly means to objectify the other. It is not only speaking in terms of lust but, there can be many ways in which we only seek ourselves and so God will not reveal himself or, we are incapable of seeing him in the other because our hearts have not been healed.
 
01:03:57 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "What I was trying to…" with ❤️
 
01:04:41 Rachel: I was trying to touch upon St. John speaking of how a soul in that state like Amma Sybcletica is speaking of does not pray that her heart be pure towards all so she may feel better about herself but so that she may see God, this side of the veil.
 
01:06:22 Rachel: Yes, just as you said Father, very simply. So she may love Him.
 
01:13:01 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:13:41 Nathan: Thank you so much (and for the Pentecost retreat) and
the so many many careful prayerful readings you guide us through
 
01:13:42 Rory: what is the email address? 
Have a good night
 
01:13:46 Michael Abele: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:49 Nathan: Replying to "Maybe it would help ..."
 
'inclination to evil'?  Guess I had understood that both evil and sin were swerves or mistaken applications of the good - not anything in themselves - but twistings of what is good in means or ends or fulfillments of the 'true' desire that evokes the activity?  Ascesis and 'purification' are to reorder these aims aright (in union with God)?  I had thunk - finding the fullness of the misguided in the way-truth-life?
 
01:13:50 Jeff O.: Amen! Thank you!
 
01:13:50 David Swiderski: Thanks father!
 
01:13:54 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VI

John continues to draw us ever deeper into the mysteries of the human mind and heart. We are in a constant state of receptivity as human beings. We are constantly engaged with the world around us through our senses. Our vigilance, therefore, must be of such a nature that we take these things into consideration. The sense of touch, the sense of hearing, etc., all can be things that give rise to the passions. In and of themselves, they may not be sinful and may not lead to sin on many occasions. However, our understanding of the power of this receptivity leads to the realization that the evil one can use them as a source of temptation. There is no room for pride in the battle that emerges from sensuality. 
Even actions and behaviors from the past remain forever in the imagination and memory. They are deeply ensconced in the unconscious. No matter how long ago certain things took place, something in the present day can give rise to and trigger those memories ever so powerfully. Conceit will always be our downfall; when we think our spiritual practices or circumstances, place us outside the reach of temptation. Saint Isaac the Syrian said in the spiritual battle there is no Sabbath. In other words, there is no rest in this life when dealing with the temptations of the evil one.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:12:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:17:47 Anthony: Maybe the way "Theology of the Body" is approached by some teachers, the way physicality and theology are intertwined and appealed to by the imagination is a dangerous thing.
 
00:19:46 Rory: ?is the silent stillness our spiritual existence?
 
00:24:51 Louise: Could reading the Psalms written by King David stimulate the sexual appetite because he gravely fell in the sins of fornication and adultery, and also murder?
 
00:35:48 Cindy Moran: I don't understand this about the man & his mother...
 
00:37:58 Rory: ?are words a sense of touch?
 
00:38:15 Cindy Moran: Ok...I am getting more clarity...thank you.
 
00:38:50 Anthony: It's a sad reality that such a thing as incest exists.  I guess the watchword is chastity or prudence, not focusing on so many permutations of evil that exist.
 
00:43:26 Cindy Moran: My mother told us to remember that you can't "unsee" something.
 
00:49:54 David Swiderski: There used to be a long tradition of contemplating the 5 wounds. I have found this extremely helpful to also sort out personal wounds. There is something strangely beautiful in overcoming suffering.
 
00:51:08 Rory: ?are deep wounds transcended by surrendering our weakness to God?
 
00:52:11 David Swiderski: The cross itself is our sign of victory
 
00:52:51 B.M.: Reacted to "The cross itself is ..." with ❤️
 
00:53:16 David Swiderski: Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me.
Within your wounds conceal me.
Do not permit me to be parted from you.
 
00:54:41 Lorraine Green: Is there a third order for laymen that is mainly Eastern?
 
00:54:54 Anthony: The demons see out want to follow Christ and take advantage of our weakness to crucify us by our weakness, so we then have a real solidarity with the Crucified One.
 
00:56:12 wayne: I belong to the eastern rite, and to my knowledge there is not third order in the east
 
00:57:33 Anthony: Replying to "Is there a third o..."
 
An internet search shows there are "associates" of monastaries - Holy Resurrection Monastery, Sisters of St. Basil.  These are answers at byzcath.org.
 
01:14:05 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 Excellent session...thank you Father!
 
01:14:13 Lorraine Green: Replying to "Is there a third ord..."
 
Thank you
 
01:14:17 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:14:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:21 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David.
 
01:14:38 Louise: Thank you!
 
01:14:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 🙏
 
01:14:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part V

The subtlety of Temptations! Again, and again the fathers show us the relentless work of the evil one in drawing the mind ans the heart of individuals into sin. He can create within our hearts a kind of childishness; a veneer of sanctity or virtue. One can experience, joy or tears or consolation in their soul, but it can all be an illusion, and not truly rooted in repentance. It is for this reason that we so often backslide in the spiritual life. We do not let go of the attachments that we have to the things that lead us into sin. We may repent and go to confession, but within our hearts we still hold on to a multitude of things that give rise to temptation or that stimulate our inclination to particular sins. Fornication in particular is something that is seen as having great weight among the fathers because it is so tied to our very make up as human beings and to our bodily appetites and desires. We can fall into error in our thinking and be corrected of this error even when we cling to it with pride. But once we have acknowledged the error we are unlikely to return to it. However, when the sins of the flesh become tied up with our imagination and memory, and when we give ourselves over to the sin, the deeper the roots become. What is lodged in the imagination and memory is easily taken hold of again through fantasy, at first, and then finally an action. Therefore the sins the flesh often need the greatest commitment to ascetic disciplines in order to uproot them. We were told in the Scriptures that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent to bear it away. Similarly, there are things that we must be willing to cut out of our life in order to keep us from falling into the same sins again. Our desire and our courage in doing so, however, is often lacking.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:54 John Ingram: Greater Cincinnati/N KY
 
00:08:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 145 para 42
 
00:25:53 Ashley Kaschl: Is St. John saying this over sharing/emotionalism be a symptom of this sin?
 
00:25:53 Louise: Blind to consequences.
 
00:29:25 Louise: Hooking up maybe to avoid aloneness at all cost.
 
00:29:26 Debra: Hook Up culture isn't just on Universities
 
00:32:27 Rory: Being in the moment with prayer, incarnate with God, we are never alone, as a temple of the Holy Spirit
 
00:36:40 Rory: ?is sin a correction?
 
00:37:39 Anthony: When I look at the history of heresy, I see that mental and physical errors often go together.
 
00:39:00 Anthony: Examples that come to mind: Marcion & other Gnostics; Cathars; Lutherans; Munsterites
 
00:45:48 Louise: As a Catholic child, I was taught that we were forgiven if we recognize our fault, repent (suffer from having caused pain, which would reduce repetition), and to repair (in reality as much as possible). The last two requirements seem to be dismissed these days , especially the third one.
 
00:48:17 Ambrose Little, OP: It goes both ways. Some heretics go the way of
overly puritanical approaches to the Faith.
 
00:54:31 Ashley Kaschl: The thought troubles me, and there’s a lot more to be said, I think, but the penance of not being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist because of the sin of fornication makes a lot of sense. 
 
Being that we receive the whole Christ, if someone has developed a deeply rooted habit of fornication they would have a kind of morbid, contraceptive disposition of soul that says “I want the pleasure of receiving Christ in the Eucharist, but I do not want His effects.” Even if the soul is fighting against the sin, that person still needs to be freed from that disposition before seeking a union with God they have trained their body and, thus, their soul not to seek above all other things. Obviously it’s not so cut and dry but I can see what the footnote is saying 😅
 
00:54:38 Rory: ?are there degrees of repentence?
 
00:58:03 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "The thought troubles..." with 👍
 
00:59:45 sue and mark: communion is the medicine....  I think that I disagree
 
01:02:49 Anthony: In my opinion, that goes back to the Germanic we-gild, or man price to satisfy for offenses in place of taking a "pound of flesh" so to speak.  When the Roman Catholic Church became more of a Germanic entity, we used a Germanic example (in my opinion) of penance, and of Purgatory / indulgences.
 
01:02:59 Anthony: "wer-gild"
 
01:04:00 David Swiderski: I have to admit the desert fathers helped me tremendously as they have practical things to overcome temptations, situations or vices. I wish in the confessional there was more application of those especially to younger people who give up before knowing of these weapons in the spiritual battle.
 
01:04:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:23 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:32 Art: I recently heard about priests telling people in the confessional “Be brief, be contrite, and be gone”.
 
01:05:04 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:05 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:12 John Ingram: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:28 Bonnie Lewis: Yes, I had a priest say, "just get to the sins!"
 
01:06:29 Lyle: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:07:10 David Swiderski: The church as an ER and priest or elders as spiritual doctors
 
01:08:45 Eric Ewanco: I hate it when I go to a scheduled confession period in an unfamiliar church and no priest is there
 
01:09:34 Michael: Unfortunately, I have mostly seen the opposite problem. Exponentially more people going up for communion than are going to confession. I think many people are not well-catechized and don't realize the gravity of receiving communion without ever going to confession.
 
01:09:59 Ambrose Little, OP: Not our job to be judging others..
 
01:10:25 Michael: I don't mean to judge those people, I just think it is a big problem that so many are unaware. It isn't their fault
 
01:11:15 Michael: Precisely
 
01:13:17 Cindy Moran: Any thoughts about a book called The Philokalia and The Inner Life On Passions and Prayer written by Christopher Cook Psychiatrist
 
01:14:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:15 angelo: Thank you father David.
 
01:14:22 Michael: Thank you Father David
 
01:14:25 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:14:32 Jacqulyn: Thank you! Quite a blessing. :-)
 
01:14:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you always Father.
 
01:14:37 John Ingram: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:49 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:15:23 sue and mark: Good night and thank you.
 
01:15:27 Jeff O.: Amen, Thank you!
 
01:15:29 Debra: Thank you, for all you do!
 
01:15:29 Cindy Moran: Excellent session
 
01:15:31 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part IV

Piercing! The vision of a Saint becomes ever so sharp. Out of their own experience of the desert, and the spiritual warfare engaged in there, comes a wisdom that strikes, hopefully, our hearts. Our hearts can become hardened by being so long immersed in sin. When the sin becomes hardened and habitual, becomes a passion, it is not easy to break free from it. 
Yet words alone, even the words of the Saints, are unable to break us free. There must be within our hearts a faith and willingness to take hold of the grace of God that comes to us through Christ to enter into the fray, to fight the good fight of faith, and to engage fully in the ascetical life. 
Both the habit of sin and the temptation of the Evil One often keeps us mired deeply in darkness. Yet we must strive to let the little light that is given to us draw us forward and emboldened our hearts. A different vision of reality is set before us; one that has come into being through the Incarnation and the Paschal mystery. We are called, not simply to be good people and those of high natural virtue but rather sons and daughters of God. Christ’s virtue is to become our virtue. His strength must become our strength. This is not something that we seize upon with our own hands but receive with humility and gratitude. With these two virtues may we set out on the journey with an invincible hope.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:04:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 paragraph 31
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 para 31
 
00:23:03 Michael: Is there any truth to the idea that God is particularly merciful about "natural" sins? CS Lewis said something similar in Mere Christianity.
 
00:31:28 Anthony: I suggest we read the passage of the Woman caught in Adultery in the context of Susanna and the Elders.
 
00:53:09 Lawrence Martone: Sometimes we have to question if we are doing the right thing, but we don’t have a spiritual director.  Is there an equivalent of Ignatian Discernment methods with the Desert Fathers?
 
00:56:54 Daniel Allen: Is that type of humility why someone such as St Philip Neri can say (paraphrasing), I have done nothing good today I will begin again… and mean it? Because to the outside observer obviously St Philip did much good.
 
01:05:57 Brad Smith: Is this similar to Psalm 137:9 about dashing infants against the stone…i.e. dealing with the sin early and completely?
 
01:06:41 LauraLeigh Monterey: My Egyptian is food. :-) So, I am to turn the power behind that appetite toward its source, which is God, yes? Can you explain a little more what that means in practical terms? That is, how exactly does one "kill the Egyptian"? Would it depend on what the Egyptian is?
 
01:11:18 Ashley Kaschl: This makes me think a lot about a Christmas Carol when Scrooge is first visited by Marley and how he’s fearful of this chain wrapped all around his friend more so than the fact that he’s a ghost. And Marley asks him “do you know the weight and length of the chain you bear yourself?” And I think that’s a lot like this Egyptian and how we may not know we are slaves to our sin and wrapped in chains.
 
01:11:23 Anthony: Replying to "Is this similar to..."
 
That's what I was thinking.  I think the monks interpret it this way.
 
01:12:47 Cindy Moran: What is the title of Pope Shenouda's book?
 
01:13:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:19 angelo: Thank you!
 
01:14:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:14:27 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part III

How does one begin to speak about purity and chastity in an age that hyper-sensualizes the human experience?  When we define ourselves so tightly and, in particular, so tightly to disordered desire, how is it that we bear witness to and embrace the call of Saint John and the other fathers to purity? Part of the answer to these questions is to immerse ourselves in the vision of the fathers; their anthropology and psychology and the spirituality that shapes these things. However, this only begins to lead us to an understanding of who and what we have become in Christ.  If it remains purely notional we will inevitably be drawn back in to what the culture puts before us. What Christianity calls us to is to see ourselves only in light of Christ and to find meaning and identity in Him. Likewise, we must see the radical solidarity that exists between every one of us as human beings made in the image and likeness of God. We are called to a life of radical conversion and repentance.  When we look out into the world and see great evil or sin, our response must be to turn to God with even greater zeal and desire. We must embody the love, joy, peace, and purity of the kingdom. Anything less is going to ring hollow to the world. To speak of purity or chastity in simple moralistic or legalistic terms is to fail to understand what we have become in Christ. It is the Spirit of God that dwells within us and we are not called to embody natural virtue much less what private judgment puts forward as good. It is the beauty of Divine life that must shine forth in our every thought and action.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 142, para 19
 
00:30:23 Anthony: I kind of think I (we?) try too hard to be Christians, and that is a self-centered and very difficult focus.  It's not the way of easy relief of Christ's cross.  It's my cross.
 
00:31:39 Anthony: My pastor once mentioned how we make our own heavy, too heavy crosses.
 
00:33:50 Eric Ewanco: I try to project the seraph serpent mounted on a pole to the Eucharist lifted up during the liturgy, sending out healing to me from the crucifixion of Christ
 
00:50:56 Michael: Oh wow, I thought it was just a metaphor. I didn’t realize he was literally talking about bestiality.
 
00:51:29 angelo: Reacted to "Oh wow, I thought it..." with 👍
 
00:55:18 Ashley Kaschl: This isn’t necessarily related to chastity but there’s a book about how normal people became murderers during WWII called “Ordinary Men” and its incredibly humbling. I would definitely recommend it. There’s a quote that always sticks with me from the psychological study of genocide in that book that states “Evil that arises out of ordinary thinking and is committed by ordinary people is the norm, not the exception.” (Ervin Staub, author of “The Roots of Evil: The Origins of Genocide and other Group Violence”)
 
00:58:41 Anthony: I get this idea from E Michael Jones: "Sexual Liberation is a tool of Social Control."  He bases this on St. Augustine and events in world history which illustrate how sexuality has been used to enslave the imagination and soul.  Maybe that will help.
 
01:01:03 Louise: At an older age, there is an appeasement of the bodily
pulsions. Therefore, there is a lot of good to say about older age. I am thankful. Maybe it is partly due to my turning to the Beloved many years ago, repeating again and again in my Heart, ''There is no god but God.''
 
01:17:16 David: Isn't a lot of this the consequence of "Relativism". Feelings have replaced truth.
 
01:17:50 Louise: Otherwise, these people will sue you, as an honest clinician.
 
01:18:01 carol nypaver: True, David.
 
01:18:13 Ashley Kaschl: I wonder if it’s a step further than relativism. Vice has replaced virtue to the extent that it has become “virtuous” to extol it.
 
01:18:58 angelo: Thank you Father.
 
01:19:02 melissa kummerow: Thank you!!!!
 
01:19:05 David: Thank you father!
 
01:19:06 sue and mark: Good night everyone.  Thank you Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part II

The depth of the fathers’ understanding of the workings of the mind and the heart, the appetites and desires, is staggering. One of the great fruits of the ascetic life of the Desert fathers is what it reveals about the desert of the human heart. Jeremiah the prophet wrote: “The human heart is a treacherous thing.  Who can endure it“. How true this is! St. John Climacus gradually begins us to draw us in to the subtle workings of our bodily appetites, in particular those tied to sensuality. Our vision of ourselves, and others can become so easily distorted by our sin. We become unable to see the beauty not only of the world around us, but of the human person and every aspect of their being. We all use ourselves and others and the things of this world in a desperate attempt to fill a void within our hearts. We long for the love of God. Even the atheist, one who denies God with all their heart, experiences this longing. They may be completely unaware of its source but nonetheless desperately seek something to fill it. And in those times when we are not wrapped up in the attempt or the delusion of fullness, we experience depression. There is no human being that does not experience isolation and the pain of loneliness even when surrounded by others and an abundance of worldly goods. St. John painstakingly reveals to us the nature of the struggle for purity of heart in order that we might be freed from seeking for the love and fullness anywhere else than in the bosom of God. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:01:25 Kevin Burke: I am just getting started on this forum and really enjoying it, I plan to catch up with the previous lessons as well.
 
Can you tell me what version of the book that we are using in this forum? I have the Paulist version but it’s very different and I would like to get the precise same version.
 
00:03:14 Adam Paige: Replying to "I am just getting st..."
 
The Holy Transfiguration Monastery version we use is a revision of this earlier 1959 translation: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf
 
00:31:20 Anthony: St. Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs does a very good job of drawing holy innocence from a love story.
 
00:34:04 Anthony: Replying to "St. Gregory of Nar..."
 
"The Blessing of Blessings: Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs" Translated from the AArmenian by Roberta Ervine, Cistercian Publications, (c) 2007
 
00:34:48 Louise Gaston: Would you say that purity of heart coupled with an observing ego allows for a sensitive detachment and discernment? With God's grace too?
 
00:34:51 angelo: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:38:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "greater still is the man unhurt by all he has looked upon." says this translation...
 
00:39:24 Rodrigo Castillo: The Blessing of Blessings: Grigor of Narek's Commentary
on the Song of Songs (Cistercian Studies books) (Volume 215) https://a.co/d/7ZqSBAW
 
00:40:44 angelo: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:41:31 Louise Gaston: Would you say that one's engagement in pornography, gluttony, etc. is basically a defense against the pain of our longing for God's presence?
 
00:45:59 Adam Paige: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:46:08 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:50:07 Anthony: Fr. Barnabas Powell (Greek Orthodox) has a saying "You are not your thoughts."  I think that has a place in psychological reflection
 
00:50:30 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:52:18 Sean: In ‘Christ — Our Pascha’, the Ukrainian Catholic catechism, it says: 
 
“When a person in prayer meets God in the depths of one's heart, one already here on earth directly experiences that which the apostle Paul describes as seeing God ‘face to face’ (1 Cor 13:12). The person ‘sees’ the One in whom he or she has believed. The person abides in God's presence. The apostle Paul compares this new state of the person to a ‘seeing’ of God…it is a ‘seeing’ of the Invisible One.“ And Metropolitan Hierotheos in ‘Orthodox Psychotherapy’ writes: “The pure heart is the organ of knowledge, the organ of Orthodox epistemology.” 
 
Thank you, Father☦️
 
https://eeparchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Christ-our-Pascha-Catechism-of-the-Ukrainian-Catholic-Church-by-Comission-for-the-Catehism-z-lib.org_.pdf
 
00:53:42 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:59:12 Anthony: So truth must be, as Soren Kierkegaard said, Objective-subjective.  The internal assent must be actively given to the external reality.  This is how the Blessed Virgin MAry lived.
 
00:59:46 Adam Paige: Reacted to "So truth must be, as..." with 🇩🇰
 
01:01:13 Louise Gaston: Difficult question - Is Christ in the Eucharist when it is
consecrated by ''funny'' modernist priests? (those with an irrespectful attitude)
 
01:04:47 angelo: Fr. I have a question: self-flagellation as a mortification is still be helpful in this battle? I heard  that it is no longer permitted by the church.
 
01:07:15 David: This seems different by culture. The chapel of N. Sra of Guadalupe still washes blood on the cobblestones from the knees of faithful entering the chapel
 
01:08:08 David: Opus Dei still uses the cilus
 
01:10:16 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:10:18 Sean: Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:10:19 David: Thank you father!
 
01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:10:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part IV, and Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part I

Tonight we made the transition from St. John’s Step on Gluttony and its offspring to our discussion of Purity and Chastity in Step number 15. Again, as we read slowly through the text and begin to unpack it, we begin to see the larger picture; the image of humanity redeemed. We see what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God, and the experience of embracing our full dignity and identity. 
What is held out to us is an incorruptible freedom and joy as our love becomes ordered toward God. We begin to see the true beauty of the things of the world, of others, and of God himself. As I’ve often mentioned, the desert fathers were the first depth psychologists; they present to us the path that brings healing of soul. They see the human person in his fullness and we see in their writings such our true dignity and destiny. 
Our struggle often is found in the fact that we’ve never come to taste that freedom, the joy, the capacity to love unimpeded by our sin. The ascetic life is not about endurance, or personal health or the ordering of our life so much as it is about the desire for God, his love, and to share in the life that he makes possible for us. It has been said that “Beauty will save the world”. In the writings of the fathers, we are called to see this beauty first in the person of Christ; and in and through him the beauty of the life that is held out to us. May we desire it with all of our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Who? Author?
 
00:12:44 Anthony: Pope Shenouda
 
00:13:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: THanks
 
00:13:35 FrDavid Abernethy: page 138
 
00:13:38 FrDavid Abernethy: no 32
 
00:14:03 Anthony: If y'all have Coptic Orthodox parishes nearby with food festivals .... GO!
 
00:23:15 Cindy Moran: This reminds me of: the kingdom suffers violence and the violent seize it by force--Mt 11:12
 
00:25:17 Debra: What Step and paragraph
 
00:26:44 Lori Hatala: step 14 para 36
 
00:26:55 Debra: Replying to "step 14 para 36"
 
Thank you!
 
00:32:35 Anthony: I get it, but cooking is an art.  Food is beautiful.  Nothing God made - matter or form - is evil.  What we consider to be food needs reform.  Our habits need reform to appreciate the art.  But I'm a bit concerned that some of these fathers are a presenting the stick too much and the carrot to little.
 
00:39:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "I get it, but cookin..."
 
The carrot is food, which is bad. ;)
 
00:39:39 angelo: Reacted to "The carrot is food, ..." with 😂
 
00:40:08 Anonymous Sinner: The movie Babette’s Feast comes to mind
 
00:42:27 Anthony: In Sicilian, the word for this kind of boorish glutton is gavonne (cafone).
 
00:43:47 Bonnie Lewis: I love that movie.  It's beautiful.
 
00:47:27 Anthony: I don't suppose I pray as much as I "should," but I have a wondrous happiness when creating like cooking
 
00:48:58 Bridget McGinley: Father this is a little off topic… was St John Cassian a priest? Also, Do you know of any books which talk about his devotion to St Mary Magdalene? I recently returned from France/Spain where I learned St John founded a monastery adjacent to her cave in 415. The Cassians protected her cave for hundreds of years. The Dominicans have had it since about the 1200’S. It just seems like he understood penance on the same level as she did.
 
00:49:54 wayne: Well we now have foods that create little preparation and in turn we have lost the art form of preparation and also we don't have the sense of where our food comes from.
 
00:50:57 Bridget McGinley: Sorry I know it was a little off topic.
 
00:51:39 angelo: That is true Father that the meal table is no longer table of sharing, I live and I am from a family first immigrant of this country and we all have jobs in different shifts and we don't see each other, eating alone is so sad that leads to eat more and more and watch tv until we doze off.
 
00:52:02 Anthony: Replying to "I get it, but cook..."
 
Carrot slaw, carrot cake....
 
00:52:10 Anthony: Reacted to "The carrot is food..." with 😂
 
00:52:21 Anthony: Reacted to "Well we now have f..." with 👍
 
00:52:39 Anthony: Reacted to "That is true Fathe..." with ❤️
 
00:54:34 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: In Eastern monasteries, the refectory walls are covered with iconography.
 
00:54:44 Anthony: Reacted to "In Eastern monaste..." with ❤️
 
00:54:49 Vicki Nichols: Replying to "Father this is a lit..." 
 
Saint Mary Magdalene by Fr. Davidson is a good book
 
00:55:17 angelo: Reacted to "In Eastern monasteri..." with ❤️
 
00:55:33 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Saint Mary Magdalene…" with ❤️
 
01:18:43 Ashley Kaschl: It’s probably obvious, but this section makes me think of the Beatitudes. Aristotle had a maxim that said, “As a person is, so does he see.” And I think that once we are granted the grace necessary to slowly make our hearts undivided in love, then too, do we become pure of heart, and our vices are chipped away to make room for virtue so that we might, at the end of our lives, see God face to face. “Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”
 
01:19:37 Anthony: Reacted to "It’s probably obv..." with ❤️
 
01:19:48 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
 
01:20:09 angelo: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:18 Debra: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:21:38 angelo: thank you
 
01:21:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:51 David: Thank you father!
 
01:21:52 Bonnie Lewis: good night Father.
 
01:21:56 Jeff O.: Thank you! God bless your pilgrimage Angela!
 
01:21:58 Rachel : Thank
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent- Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part III

How striking it is to hear the nature of the struggle with gluttony and the need for fasting spoken of with such zeal and clarity! Such practices have for the most part fallen by the wayside or have been minimized to such an extent as to be equally nonexistent. The unfortunate fruit of this is that we often have never tasted the freedom and the strength comes through ordering our appetite for food. Thus, the humbling of the mind and the body and the deepening of the experience of prayer through the stilling of the thoughts is also rarely experienced. 
We need to take hold of the wisdom of the fathers and their zeal that will allow us to put it into practice.  St. John tells us that when God sees the movement of the mind abs the heart towards Him through these practices that He will aid us with His grace. 
We also see that the fathers have a very clear sense of the workings of the human mind and how we experience our bodily appetites. Their observations of what takes place on a physiological level are astute and reveal the depth of their experience. All of it is meant to fashion within our hearts a renewed desire for the ascetic life. 
We must see that which is uniquely an distinctively Christian about these practices. For while St. John and the other fathers speak of them so frequently, they also understand that their beginning and end is found in one’s relationship with God. The desire for God’s love must compel us. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136. paragraph 17
 
00:11:08 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136 paragraph 17
 
00:17:21 Bridget McGinley: Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things- Philippians 3:19
 
00:23:45 Emma C: I have a question!
 
00:24:02 Emma C: I was wondering can fasting help with other attachments to the world like shopping?
 
00:24:10 Brett Pavia, BCMA: I have a question …
 
00:24:15 Emma C: Excessive shopping*
 
00:36:18 Rachel : That's a fantastic idea.
 
00:36:40 Anthony: The back of the Publican's Prayer Book has a guide to ease into fasting, written by Patriarch Gregorios III.
Also, Italian food is a LOT of peasant food (cucina povera).
 
00:41:40 Rachel : You have good friends. In Cali, you can find something at a steakhouse though.
 
00:42:12 Rachel : "Crab feed"
 
00:42:19 Anthony: This one does.  Fish is usually penance.  So is soup. ;)
 
00:42:21 Ambrose Little, OP: I dunno. Ours is plain, and I don’t like fish. 😄 😄
 
00:42:27 Ren Witter: Reacted to "I dunno. Ours is pla..." with 😄
 
00:42:44 Ren Witter: Yea, I’ve smelled some fish fries that seem pretty penitential
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: Ora et labora?
 
01:01:31 Anthony: Prayer is serious. It takes work.  A person can stay up and watch entertainment, but it isn't work - but stay up too late and you feel horrible.  Maybe it's a counterfeit to work to make the work of a vigil distasteful.
 
01:06:06 Anthony: Same here, Brett
 
01:08:01 David: A priest suggested finding a rock or something to hold in one hand during prayer. I have a rock from a Jesuit retreat house and it helps get my mind focused. It becomes a habit when held my mind goes to God.
 
01:15:31 Debra: Reacted to "Yea, I’ve smelled so..." with 😆
 
01:15:51 Mitch: On our commitment to Christ I’ve often felt like I have spiritual amnesia. I feel at home when in the spiritual work and then I go out into the world with its suffering again and forget my true home. I feel like my task each day is to remember the truth
 
01:19:33 Sean: Met. Kallistos of blessed memory said that unceasing prayer is not something that we say from time to time, but rather something that we are, all of the time (even during sleep)☦️
 
01:20:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Met. Kallistos of bl..." with 👍
 
01:22:29 Mitch: Thank you very much Happy Easter/Pascha to everyone!
 
01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you!🙂 Happy Easter everyone
 
01:22:34 Sean: Thank you, Father
 
01:22:36 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Easter
 
01:22:36 angelo: thank you
 
01:22:37 Rachel : Thank you!
 
01:22:43 David: Thank you!
 
01:22:43 Deiren: Happy Easter
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part II

We continued to our reflection on step number 14 - gluttony, or that “clamorous mistress, the stomach.”  We are being exposed to the wisdom of the fathers, so deeply rooted in their experience of human nature and how it has been effected by sin. St. John, in his typical fashion, reveals to us the subtleties (psychological, emotional and spiritual) of how we are deceived by the evil one and how our bodily appetites can be used against us. It is precisely because our appetite for food is natural and needed for sustenance that it is something that can be used against us and so powerfully. 
This step shows how St. John and the other fathers were not only spiritual warriors, but the first depth psychologists. They knew how the mind and the heart work. We are easily deceived and easily moved to rationalize our use of food. Perhaps what is most significant is that St. John shows us how essential this practice of fasting and abstinence is in our spiritual life. We can’t be dabblers or minimalists. Because it is such a part of who we are, our appetite for food must be formed and shaped both by discipline and by the grace of God. What and how we eat is often a reflection of our emotional state a response to a need and desire for consolation. Rather than nourishing ourselves upon the love of God, we will choose some thing that offers immediate satisfaction - even though we know it is ever so temporary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:56 Anthony: Months ago we talked about the monk who cut off his genitals, to great spiritual and physical harm.  Fasting is a healthy way of cutting off an appetite; it cannot be complete, since that is absolutely repulsive to natural law.  It encourages both cutting something off and moderation in approach.  Maybe that is a reason why fasting is a help for both gluttony and lust.
 
00:24:00 Anthony: In addition, fasting is accessible to both men and women - a remedy for all.
 
00:25:03 angelo: Reacted to "Months ago we talked..." with 👍
 
00:28:20 sue and mark: am I correct in thinking that this can be modified for special health needs effected by diet.
 
00:28:40 Sean: I recently watched a good lecture on Evagrius, “Evagrius the Monk and the Care of Souls” by Dr. Robin Darling Young at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary: https://youtu.be/Lp-EpQB_A6U
I didn’t know that he was condemned along with Origen. I have only heard good things. Thank you, Father.
 
00:38:41 David: Aren't a lot of perceived contradictions looking at absolutes rather than stages and a process. As a child uses training wheels, then has someone behind him, then only a flat road. Over the period of time and conquering basic steps bigger challenges can be adopted.
 
00:41:00 sue and mark: Reacted to "Aren't a lot of perc..." with 👍
 
00:46:47 Anthony: So, Mardi Gras can actully harm the spiritual goal of Lent, but Meatfare then cheesefare is to enhance the Lent
 
00:47:52 Jean-Baptiste Giroux: There are many people these days practicing prolong fasting up to 72 hrs. Should that be  encouraged?
 
00:48:11 Patrick Caruso: Fr. David, could you please speak to how one should incorporate fasting and/or restraint on Sundays, solemnities, etc? With the approaching Easter season, how is one to best continue forward with some of the fasting they may have been practicing during Lent in the Easter season?
 
00:49:31 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There are many peopl…" with 👍
 
00:49:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. David, could you…" with 👍
 
00:53:48 David: In the early church wasn't Wed and Friday all year what Christians were know for in fasting?
 
01:05:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "In the early church ..." with 👍
 
01:05:35 Brad Smith: If the “warrior-ascetic” is distinct from the “perfect ascetic,” is Climacus implicitly warning the warrior to be careful not to delight to the point of succumbing to pride in there heat of battle when successful?
 
01:14:54 carol: “You are she who is not, I AM He Who Is.” to St.Catherine of Siena
 
01:18:16 David: Fear of the consequences of our sins? And acknowledging he is also All Just, a Judge? Ideally fear of disappointing God through love is best but sometimes fear of consequence can be good at times.
 
01:21:22 Anthony: Wisdom Chapter 12 - God tries to correct people by degrees.
 
01:23:22 carol nypaver: Well said, Father!
 
01:23:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:24:10 Krissy: Thanks!
 
01:24:49 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:24:53 David: Thanks you and bless you Father!
 
01:24:55 angelo: thank you
 
01:24:55 sue and mark: good night an dGod bless you father.
 
01:24:58 Brad Smith: Thank you
 
01:24:59 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part I

Tonight we picked up with Step, 14 on “that clamorous mistress, the stomach“. Climacus begins to draw us into a discussion of one of the most important and neglected spiritual practices - fasting and the struggle with gluttony. 
This is a struggle, Saint John tells us, that remains with us through our entire life. Our desire for food or our misuse of food is something that is part of the very fabric of our life. It is a bodily appetite. Not unlike other appetites, it must be ordered toward the good or in the way that is in accord with the wisdom of God. 
Yet, John tells us, gluttony is hypocrisy of the stomach. In a sense it deceives us. Even when we are filled, it tells us that we are empty, and even when we are bursting, it “cries out that it is hungry.“.  It also leads us to devise seasonings, and sweet and rich dishes. The moment that we think that we have control of it, it shows itself in another area of our life. Unchecked, it leads to something even more serious - fornication. If we do not order this basic appetite for food, then we are going to be disordered and the use of our other bodily appetites, including our sexual appetite. And so, St. John tells us that he who coddles the body makes it wilder.  If we do not control it, then it will overcome us. 
If we are self-aware, we know we eat for many different reasons. On an emotional level, we often eat to console ourselves or because we are feeling aggressive or anxiety. We distract ourselves and deal with feelings of emptiness by filling our bodies with food. There are many ways that we convince ourselves that restraining ourselves is inappropriate. For example, we tell ourselves that hospitality demands that we break our fasting practices. Rather than being honest with ourselves and others, we freely let go of these disciplines, not out of love for others but to satisfy our baser needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Bonnie Lewis: I agree wholeheartedly!
 
00:15:46 Bonnie Lewis: Let's do it.
 
00:16:35 CMoran: Was it Rod Dreher?
 
00:36:57 Anthony: On Fasting, I recall sayings from people like St. Paisios to the effect that we live like pagans since we neglect prayer and fasting.  I wonder if there is an inverse correlation between a failure to fast and pray and the increased use of unwholesome images.
 
00:38:05 Jeff O.: Is there a reason or importance in the way Climacus orders anger and acedia before gluttony/fornication/greed etc on the ladder? I just find it interesting the order of things and the way he presents the vices
 
00:42:30 David Swiderski: What is the best practice in fasting. I fasted with a Syrian roommate a couple years he for Ramadan me for Lent. The hardest was no water all day which could be dangerous. What was strange most Muslims gain weight and have huge feasts every night and before the sunrose would drink juices to excess.
 
00:53:24 Anthony: I was talking about Easter Grain pie within the last 90 minutes....
 
00:56:49 Eric Ewanco: If we go over to someone's house during a fasting/abstinence period, how should we handle this if they plan food that breaks the discipline?
 
00:57:07 angelo: Reacted to "If we go over to som..." with 👍
 
00:58:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Well, our Lord did tell us to not appear to be fasting. 🙂
 
00:58:37 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Well, our Lord did t..." with 👏🏻
 
01:01:08 Ambrose Little, OP: “When you give, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” There does seem to be an impetus to “hide” our discipline and good works, to avoid pride.
 
01:01:14 Bonnie Lewis: excellent Father
 
01:01:17 Brad Smith: Your reference to hospitality as an excuse for gluttony seems the height of fornication (paragraph 1) as it is essentially to use the other person as a means to our own ends; gluttony is to misuse God’s good creation for our self-centered ends. Yes?
 
01:02:07 Brad Smith: I meant paragraph 5…Brad
 
01:02:07 Ambrose Little, OP: So we can’t win. LOL
 
01:04:37 CMoran: A few of my casual Catholic friends think that no meat on Friday has been done away with after the reforms.
 
01:05:43 CMoran: Not even knowing that some other penance is required.
 
01:08:28 Helena Babington Guiles: He who is in us is greater than he who is  in the world…and when we commune with Him within, His  nourishment exceeds any other.
 
01:10:49 Ren Witter: I am going to someone’s house for dinner tomorrow, and they already know I am vegetarian so I was going to just go and eat what was there, but I literally just texted them to say I can’t have eggs or cheese 😄. It makes me feel strangely anxious 🤣 I also told them to blame Father David 😄
 
01:11:09 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "I am going to someon..." with 😂
 
01:11:20 angelo: can we replace fasting with good works? This was my experience years ago when I was aspirant in a religious community.
 
01:14:07 Eric Ewanco: You can't "beat your body and make it your slave" (St. Paul) by doing good works
 
01:14:13 carol nypaver: We should not make others “suffer” because of our sacrifices. Right?
 
01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I thought that the recommendation for a fast day was two small meals OR one large one, is that what you meant?
 
01:16:18 Debra: I gave up coffee on Lent...and my family suffered lol
 
01:17:16 Eric Ewanco: @rebecca the requirement is one meal, and up to two smaller meals not adding up to another meal as needed to maintain your strength
 
01:17:18 Ren Witter: Replying to "I thought that the r..."
 
In the Latin Rite the official rule is “one large meal, and two small meals that do not together equal one large meal” and yes, its pretty lame :-D
 
01:17:25 Ren Witter: Reacted to "@rebecca the require..." with 👍
 
01:17:49 carol nypaver: When I have to prepare a meal for someone who is “wheat-free,” meat-free, dairy-free makes me not want to host them.  They don’t have allergies, just sacrificing these things.  That makes me “suffer."
 
01:17:58 Bonnie Lewis: No, don't Father.  Amen
 
01:18:25 Rebecca Thérèse: @Ren thanks
 
01:20:05 Ambrose Little, OP: Here’s the USCCB on the topic: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence  
 
The focus seems to be about internalizing and owning our asceticism (as Christian adults) rather than having it spoon fed to us in a one-size-fits-all approach. But the important part of the message seems to have been lost on many.
 
01:21:05 Eric Ewanco: "many" is an understatement
 
01:21:30 Bonnie Lewis: I never hear this spoken on from the pulpit.
 
01:22:17 Ren Witter: Replying to "When I have to prepa..."
 
Its actually a pretty reasonable thought - “don’t host them” when I think about it. If I had friends, and they were strictly kosher for instance, it would be basically impossible for me to host them because I don’t know how to cook that way. At that point, its better if we go to a kosher restaurant, or if I simply go to their home and play with the kids while they cook.
 
01:22:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:26 CMoran: Thank you Father...excellent session...most
necessary for me!
 
01:23:35 angelo: Thank you
 
01:23:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Debra: Thank you Father! This was really good!
 
01:23:47 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:25:02 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIII: On Despondency

How do we talk about and understand despondency? I never heard about the word or the nature of the vice until I was in my 20s and after having read the fathers. And yet we hear from the fathers that it is the greatest and gravest of the eight capital vices. It afflicts the soul in such a way that it draws it into darkness. The soul loses its capacity to see the presence of God or to love the things of God. It becomes most dangerous when we are engaged in the spiritual life in isolation; either as those who live the life of a hermit, or as those who see the spiritual life as a private affair.  We live in a radical solidarity with each other, and with God. Our understanding of this, and our embrace of that reality may be the one thing that keeps us from falling into a general death. 
This demon uses the most subtle forms of temptation to make us lax in our spiritual practice or come to despise it all together. There are very few remedies for it for this reason. One must remember death and the brevity of our life. We must understand that we are in the end times and see the urgency of the moment. We must also cling to obedience; placing our thoughts before another and allow them to guide us when we cannot see the path before us. 
Prayer filled with hope, St. John tells us, is the only thing that brings this vice to utter death. Only when we cling to He who is life and love and hope and let go of the illusion that we can simply endure the spiritual trials of this world on our own will this vice be conquered. But once it is conquered, a person has come to experience all that is good; they are prepared for every spiritual battle that lies ahead.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:17 David: Question on translation: Acedia wouldn't this be closer to insouciant or melancholy rather than despondency?
 
00:35:37 Daniel Allen: Despondency is a child of talkativeness but community life is opposed to it? That seems sort of contradictory.
 
00:37:21 Anthony: The spirit of despondency also perverts a concept of what it means to be "elect": I am the only true one, everyone is against me."  That's not a good place to be.
 
00:37:51 Daniel Allen: As a follow up it seems that despondency is always a lurking threat.
 
00:38:32 Daniel Allen: Ok that clears it up thank you
 
00:41:21 Cindy Moran: Noonday Devil from Ps 90:6 [DRV]
 
00:43:22 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Also, many monks would not eat before 3 pm so beginning around midday hunger and hungers may start.
 
00:46:55 Anthony: The dinner bell represents hope that suffering will end.
 
00:59:02 Kathy: What do you mean by deification?
 
01:00:26 Eric Ewanco: Deification is become by grace what Christ was by nature -- becoming God-like, sharing in the divinity of Christ as he shared in our humanity, being partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4)
 
01:01:26 Anthony: A great Roman Catholic imagery / interpretation of deification is in Dante's "Paradiso," especially the later cantos.
 
01:02:14 Kathy: Thanks
 
01:06:45 Daniel Allen: St Therese - “May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be.”
 
01:06:59 Kristen Brotemarkle: beautiful quote, thanks for sharing that. ^
 
01:09:55 Liz: Sorry, what´s the name of the author Father is talking
about?
 
01:10:26 Anthony: Paul Evdekimov
 
01:10:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Paul Evdokimov
 
01:10:35 Liz: Thank you!!!
 
01:18:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Gender equality. Very modern.
 
01:20:56 Jeff O.: It seems like despondency (and gluttony as well) have a tendency or propensity to draw us towards numbing…which, paired with the nature of our culture which attempts to provide numbing or comforting in all things seems like an almost double whammy of sorts…
 
01:21:34 Anthony: Reacted to "It seems like desp..." with 👍
 
01:24:21 Kristen Brotemarkle: Reacted to "It seems like despon..." with 👍
 
01:37:38 Art: Got me too!
 
01:38:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:38:53 Rodrigo Castillo: That is a great idea!  The forum!
 
01:39:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...rich teaching tonight.
 
01:39:57 Jeff O.: This was great! Thank you.
 
01:40:07 David: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XII: On Lying

Tonight we read Step number 12 on Lying. Surprisingly this has always been a challenging step to read and to read as a group. Immediately our minds begin to swirl with the costs of loving the Truth and understanding that Truth is a person. Our starting point in such discussions is often examples that are extreme; things or circumstances that people might face within this life where lying might be justified. St. John addresses this and much more within the step. However, one has to be willing to suspend judgment and allow St. John to guide us along a path that deepens our sensitivity in regards to the Truth as a whole. Our starting point must be Christ. We must begin to understand that lying is a sin against charity, and to lie when making a vow or an oath is a denial of God himself. St. John understands very well that the Evil One can use something as innocent and enjoyable as humor to justify and to legitimize lying.  Yet, John tells us that there are no small lies and once spoken they have an effect upon ourselves and others. They diminish the spirit of mourning; that is, compunction within the human heart. In doing so they distract us from the remembrance of God and the things of God. We must remember that God has given us a conscience, a means of knowing the truth with Him. This is what we must form through the gospel and through our participation in the life of Christ. We must also remember that the Evil One is the Father of Lies and will use a lie under the pretext of protecting others. In the face of this, St. John tells us, “when we are completely cleansed of lying, then we can resort to it, but only with fear and as occasion demands.” Only when the heart has been completely purified, where there is no love of falsehood and where there is the presence of great discernment, can such a decision be made. To love truth, St. John tells us, is the root of every good because it is to love Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:04 Anthony Rago: I've also been thinking that our bodies and societies are parables of truth; and we can be lying by engaging in bad lifestyles.
 
00:37:35 Anthony Rago: I can imagine a confessor becoming very exasperated if we treat all this as confessable sins; and it would be very wearing on all of us.
 
00:39:28 David Swiderski: Like many other things isn't discernment take a place here. Is this so people will think I am funny (pride), will this hurt someone, will it erode trust (the cost of lies) or lead to a habit?
 
00:39:39 Anthony Rago: That makes sense, thanks
 
00:40:57 Cindy Moran: Corrie ten Boom  lied to the Nazis when they asked if jews were in the house. This is ok?
 
00:44:09 Ren Witter: I feel like this is a really hard one. Intellectually, I actually feel like it is easy to understand. Emotionally, it kind of feels like one of those instances where being Christian can feel like a “kill-joy” to put it in a light way. Maybe the immense anxiety I feel in response to this is coming from the fear that being a Christian means no joy or every-day happiness. Its weird because I know that that isn’t true, but sometimes it can be hard to reconcile the lived experience of Christianity with the things the Fathers write.
 
00:46:34 Debra: Replying to "Corrie ten Boom  lie..."
 
I've read a priest's response to this, is Yes, it's ok; because the Nazis didn't have a right to what's going on in their home
That we have dignity, and a right to privacy
 
I'm interested to hear what Fr Abernethy says 😄
 
00:55:06 Anthony Rago: With humor - movies, comedy routines, Facebook - it is easy to go along, and then the story teller sneaks in covert of blatant evil things, and "bam," there they are in the head, coming to mind in an ambush when they are most unwelcome.
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Ok so this may be making a little more sense to me. If the concern is with Truth, and Truth is a person, then we can have a tendency to come between Truth and another person (between the other and his remembrance of Truth Himself), which sort of reminds me of two parts of the Gospel - better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause the fall of one of these little ones, and also, what God has joined let no man divide. Neither are traditionally applied to this type of thought, but if by our jesting, and always (or often) making light of things we can get between a person and his remembrance of God (or mourning), then in a way we are doing just that on a spiritual level, dividing the person from his remembrance of God. We can (generally unintentionally) get between God and another person, and generally to pump up our own ego. The lying part makes sense, it’s the joking that’s hard to get.
 
01:11:37 Jacqulyn: Proverbs 26:18-19 - Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death is one who deceives their neighbor and says, "I was only joking."
 
01:15:40 Debra: Cindy Moran, up above, asked about that very point
 
01:20:23 David Swiderski: The trap of whataboutism deflects from a general truth
 
01:23:09 Bonnie Lewis: So I will only be finally cleansed in Purgatory?
 
01:23:49 Debra: In vino veritas
 
01:24:08 Anthony Rago: Greek Text of this chapter is here: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BE/%CE%9B%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%99%CE%92
I can barely read Greek and can't now locate the word "torture."
 
01:25:16 Ambrose Little, OP: About being jovial, I have a fondness for this part of St. Thomas Aquinas’ prayer “for ordering a life wisely” (notably the last three lines):
 
O Lord my God, make me
          submissive without protest,
          poor without discouragement,
          chaste without regret,
          patient without complaint,
          humble without posturing,
          cheerful without frivolity,
          mature without gloom,
          and quick-witted without flippancy.
 
Being dour and scolding is not good, neither is flippancy and frivolity. Cheerfulness is a good thing within measure.
 
01:25:32 Anthony Rago: "agoneia"
 
01:25:49 Debra: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:25:50 Daniel Allen: I think one thing I take from this is that I often don’t consider the significance of my own words, and that words have greater significance than generally thought
 
01:26:08 carol nypaver: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:09 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "About being jovial, …" with 🔥
 
01:26:25 Cath Lamb: Reacted to "I think one thing I ..." with ❤️
 
01:27:19 Anthony Rago: Reacted to "About being jovial..." with ❤️
 
01:27:21 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father
 
01:27:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:27:42 Art: Thank you!
 
01:27:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Good to be with you all.
 
01:27:59 Bonnie Lewis: Prayers of course!
 
01:29:15 Bonnie Lewis: that's right because I received an email.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XI: On Talkativeness and Silence

Tonight, we read Step number 11 on “talkativeness and silence.”  Fittingly, it is very brief, if not the briefest of all of the steps of The Ladder. This brevity is St. John’s way of teaching us that so much of our speech involves vainglory; putting ourselves on display. We seek through it to step out of ourselves; betraying the painful experience we have as human beings of our lack of identity.  God has created us for himself. He has created us in his image and likeness precisely that we might not experience ourselves in isolation, but rather in communion. However, to enter into communion with God means to step out of our limited ways of perceiving the world around us and reality as a whole. This means allowing God, through the silence,to draw us in faith into the experience of His life, light and love.  To give ourselves over to talkativeness is to find ourselves dissipated. Our desire for God cools and the emptiness that we feel drives us to fill our lives with anything and everything so that we do not feel alone. Despite having God dwelling within us, once we lose sight of him, silence becomes an enemy. Therefore, John tells us that we must foster silence as a habit. We must allow God to show us its value, and what it makes possible for us. The first step is to create external silence. Once we have done this, we often see the unsettledness of our minds and hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:45 Cindy Moran: Is your patron saint Matthew?
 
00:15:18 John & Heather: Do you mind mentioning what edition this group uses?
 
00:15:54 Debra: I saw your post on FB about it
 
00:16:41 John & Heather: Replying to "Do you mind mentioni..."
 
Great...thank you.
 
00:16:43 Cindy Moran: I really liked Ren's presentation on the prayer rope
 
00:17:38 FrDavid Abernethy: Yes.  Excellent.  She makes the most exquisite prayer ropes as well.
 
00:17:51 FrDavid Abernethy: Maybe she will put up the website address.
 
00:27:32 Eric Ewanco: My translation says "foe of license" instead of "enemy of freedom of speech"
 
00:41:56 Bonnie Lewis: This is why adoration before the Blessed Sacrament is such a beautiful gift where silence is filled with God's love for us.
 
00:43:12 Vicki Nichols: Would this silence include silencing the "inner chatter" of your thoughts or is it only external silence?
 
00:53:28 Rebecca Thérèse: I've found that people who chatter continuously don't care if you're listening or not so I can zone out!
 
00:54:01 wayne: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂
 
00:55:21 iPhone: Amen
 
00:56:08 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I've found that peop..."
with 😂
 
00:58:48 iPhone: Totally
 
00:59:06 Ambrose Little, OP: My in-laws feel that way about visiting here—the kiddos are a constant background buzzing. 🙂 You can get acclimated..
 
00:59:19 Eric Ewanco: How do we in the world balance silence with the cultivation of valuable relationships in life, for example at work or whatever? In other words, how do we discern the threshold of silence to maintain -- there is the absolute silence of a monk, and the rambling of the garroulous, where do we draw the line?
 
01:00:17 Debra: I wear hearing aids, but only if I'm going somewhere were I HAVE to listen...like Mass, or meetings
As soon as I'm out of that meeting, I take out my aids, because the world is such a noisy place!!
 
01:00:54 Debra: Reacted to "My in-laws feel that..." with 😁
 
01:08:21 iPhone: + 1
 
01:12:20 Anthony Rago: Being someone who does work from home, and lives alone, the silence does not feel too great all the time.  Only the deep silence when in my workshop or working in my kitchen or dining room or times like that is satisfying.
 
01:12:49 Debra: So much ambient noise...Like you mentioned, noise does create anxiety
I can literally feel tension leave, when I take my hearing aids out.
 
01:13:18 Debra: Reacted to "Being someone who do..." with 🤗
 
01:16:40 iPhone: Making a note of it
 
01:16:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:48 Debra: Thanks be to God
 
Thank you! Good night!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part II

This evening we continued and completed Step number 10 on “slander and calumny.”  Something very special emerges about John in the writing of this step. We see something very personal about John’s capacity to love and his purity of heart. He acknowledges his own struggle with judging others as sinners, when in reality they were pure of heart in secret. Thus, John’s repeated counsel is not to judge at all; even when we see things with a kind of clarity. We often have blind spots and dark spots in our evaluation of the others. Beyond this, the Evil One puts before us smoke, if you will, making us think that there is sin present where none exist. 
All that we are allowed to do is to love others. This means that we always attribute their sin to the action of demons. We are to look for the good in others and look for ways that we can support and lift them up if they are struggling. This means setting aside the morbid delight that we take in judging and the feeling of emotional power that we think it gives us over and against them. We must acknowledge the radical solidarity that exist between us and foster a spirit of generosity towards each other. To seize for ourselves a prerogative that belongs only to God is ruinous to the soul. May God preserve us!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:23:24 Bridget McGinley: Father, sorry...little long....I just wanted to follow up from last week with a comment/question. I was not able to type this fast enough. It was in relation to what you were saying about being serious and stern in presenting the Faith. You mentioned about your early sermon and how it was perceived by the college kids. I used to be pretty sanguine. Life has taken it’s toll. I once heard Bishop Sheen say something that was pretty profound. He stated, “Christ had many emotions that were written about in the Bible but never did he smile or laugh.” Bishop Sheen stated that He is saving those for us in Heaven. Looking at Step 10 point 2 many people nowadays are pretty “shameless and very happy” and it is hard for me to find smiles and joy surrounded by the deluge. In tip-toeing around the obvious moral problems these days how does one escape mental slander which sometimes manifests as verbal slander? And how does one show a non-judgemental face?
 
00:37:37 iPhone: Anen Father
 
00:49:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Part of Leviticus 19 came into my mind in relation to not judging at all  15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
 
17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
 
00:57:02 Anthony Rago: Since the Late Middle Ages, our culture has been both immoral and curious.  We want the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summas, but we have not as eagerly gone to the other side of him, the one that made the Pange Lingua
 
00:57:39 Anthony Rago: We want knowledge for curiousity's sake, but not the humility of devotion
 
00:57:54 Ambrose Little, OP: Do you think the nature of social media has made this particular trap of the Devil more prevalent?
 
00:58:30 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: How great it would be to always be centered on noting the virtues it observes in others!
 
00:58:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Amen, Sister!
 
01:03:12 Bridget McGinley: As a nurse I can attest it is physically and mentally debilitating communicating. Many of my co workers talk about how they can't even talk after a shift. Verbal interaction is very challenging.
 
01:11:45 Ambrose Little, OP: About #12 and #15.. I recently learned of a few very vocal critics (including a former apologist) in the Church ending up leaving the Faith, either entirely or moving to a sect. It’s very sad. There is something in what St. John is saying they’re for sure—that this kind of behavior can be ruinous.
 
01:17:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:23 Ren Witter: Philokalia.link/tolovefasting
 
01:18:41 carol nypaver: Time??
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part II and Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part I

The subtle movements of the human heart and mind stand revealed while reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent. As one makes one’s way through the text, it becomes clear that it is an inevitability. We must stand ready to have our hearts illuminated and the places that we desire to keep in darkness, whether consciously or unconsciously, exposed. Yet, somehow, when these words come from the pen of a Saint, there is a healing that one begins to experience; even as we know the sting of the words. Knowing and seeing the truth lightens the mind and the heart and opens us to experience the grace and the mercy of God. By removing the impediments to the action of that grace, we find ourselves no longer running with a heavy tread under the burden and the weight of some hidden guilt or wound, but freely and swiftly moving towards He who is Love. 
The jarring nature of John’s words is eventually overcome by the confidence in his desire, as well as God’s, to bring us healing. Such is the case with John’s description of the remembrance of wrongs. He makes it clear that without remedy, it can poison the heart and become dark spite. The more we nurture our anger, the more the heart becomes poisoned, and we eventually only see the faults of others.  To be free of this burden, he tells us, allows us to boldly ask our Savior for the release of our own sins. 
John would have us show no hesitancy and experience no doubt about what coming to God brings us. If we do not attend to this wound, what is born from it is slander. This, he tells us, drains the blood of love and becomes the patron of a heavy and unclean heart. In our anger, we may diminish another through our words, but the consequence that has for ourselves is far greater. It is a coarse disease that only Christ and gazing upon Christ crucified can heal.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:24 Anthony Rago: Tractor Supply, too
 
00:08:15 Anthony Rago: time for an exorcism of the air....
 
00:09:39 FrDavid Abernethy: page 126 para 13
 
00:12:43 Cindy Moran: Oooo...Yes!
 
00:22:53 Anthony Rago: Then this would apply also to wrongs WE have done, too, that filter our His healing?
 
00:27:03 sue and mark: I have found that if I am struggling in this area..that if I ask God to forgive them for me...  it is easier  also to bring me to that place of forgiveness that he desires
 
00:32:12 Anthony Rago: This is what I have a hard time understanding: sin, mortal and venial, which is emphasized so much in the admonishion if frequent confessions....so much emphasis on me, me, me.
 
00:35:42 Anthony Rago: How often is good?
 
00:39:56 Anthony Rago: Thank you
 
00:55:41 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm still puzzled as to the difference between spite and dark spite
 
00:57:43 Cindy Moran: Who is the author of the book you mentioned last week "Orthodox Psychotherapy"?
 
00:57:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe something like.. If you harbor it secretly in the “darkness” of your inner self. You don’t allow it to be brought into the Light, examined for what it is, and see that it is wrong and needs to be eliminated.
 
00:57:59 carol: Dark definition includes “angry, threatening, arising from evil, sinister”
 
00:58:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you all
 
01:01:16 Ambrose Little, OP: “Speaking the truth in love” is one of the most abused phrases.
 
01:03:23 Anthony Rago: Chastity covers up, it is modest.  Unchastity is an unholy exposure.
 
01:11:29 Rachel: LOL
 
01:11:49 Anthony Rago: I think you're right.  More St. Francis is needed, less "vert few will be saved."
 
01:13:08 Lee Graham: The river of life flowing out of us
 
01:14:37 Rachel: ouch
 
01:15:45 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:15:47 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:56 Devansh Shukla: Thank you
 
01:15:57 Rachel: YES!!
 
01:16:08 Bernadette Truta: Yes please!
 
01:16:09 Art: Thank you good night.  Yes I’m interested in the Zoom group on fasting.
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes
 
01:16:12 Deb Dayton: Is this in person?
 
01:16:13 sue and mark: yes
 
01:16:16 Jacqulyn: Yes... I am interested!
 
01:16:19 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: when?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part I

There are certain moments while reading the fathers when one trembles. The truth expressed is so vivid and pierces so deeply that the experience of it is visceral. One is shaken.  This is not easy to endure, and perhaps there are moments when reading such texts becomes a stumbling block for our minds and our hearts. However, when they speak the truth of Christ and when they reveal the depth of love that we are called to in Him, ultimately these words are healing. The fathers, in so many ways, are spiritual physicians. Their words cut like a scalpel and cut deeply. But they cut out the “rot” as John describes it. The remembrance of wrongs, which is the offspring of anger, is not something that we can remove on our own. Untreated it spreads like a cancer. The fact, John tells us it has no offspring because it poisons the soul so completely that it makes us incapable of love. 
May God give us the grace to listen with humility and gratitude. We are given such loving fathers who desire nothing but our healing. When we begin to trust that, then their words become as bright and illuminating as the sun.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 125 Step number 9
 
00:20:29 Anthony: Another kind of remembering wrongs is to trod the path of bad example someone has set...examples, hearing cursing, and then carrying on that "tradition" instead of cutting it off; or doing violence because someone else did violence to you (a chain of abuse).
 
00:22:58 Eric Ewanco: My translation titles this section "On Malice" (with a translation note that also offers "remembrance of wrongs). Your translation refers to "hourly malice" (mine says "rancor by the hour"). Can you elaborate on the relationship between malice and remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:24:12 Ashley Kaschl: Could a victim mentality be tied to the “pleasureless feeling cherished in the sweetness of bitterness” part?
 
00:24:26 Bonnie Lewis: So I shouldn't be troubled that I can relate so deeply to this step?
 
00:27:16 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen Father
 
00:28:30 Anthony: Healing.  In Divine Comedy, Dante is washed in a river of forgetfulness when passing from Purgatory to Heaven, so he can forget all memory of sin.
 
00:31:35 iPhone: +1
 
00:48:05 iPhone: Love these Sessions Father !
 
00:48:53 Daniel Allen: The internet, for a million different reasons, is dangerous… not reading the fathers.
 
00:50:52 carol: How does one speak freely in the context of therapy or spiritual direction while also avoiding the remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:55:37 Charbel & Justin: Demons are fundamentally chaotic.
 
01:05:47 Anthony: Remember that the demons make suckers and schlubs out of all of us.  It makes it easier to have compassion on another.
 
01:07:09 iPhone: Amen
 
01:08:37 Bonnie Lewis: true
 
01:08:47 iPhone: Love that
 
01:10:37 iPhone: Much work to do in this regard.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: This entire section reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross: “Whenever anything disagreeable happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent.”
 
01:12:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:12:26 Bonnie Lewis: This step is excellent Father.  Much to ponder.
 
01:12:43 Debra: Reacted to "This entire section ..." with ❤️
 
01:12:44 iPhone: Amen Father.  Tremendous !
 
01:13:39 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you Father. Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part III

As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17
 
00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David!
 
00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17
 
00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
 
01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you
 
01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father!
 
01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :(
 
01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you
 
01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part II

What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding
 
00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God>
 
00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in.
 
00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others?  Any room in the Fathers for this?  Or is that called something else in their terminology?
 
00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering
 
01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself
 
01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue?
 
01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need).
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VII and Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part I

Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness. 
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin. 
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.”  The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66
 
00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page?
 
00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120
 
00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean!
 
00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God
 
00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻
 
00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼
 
01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, 
 
“Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.”
 
01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?”
 
01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley.  Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen!
 
01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...?  Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure?  Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions
 
01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father
 
01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:05 Art: Thank you father!
 
01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David
 
01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you!
 
01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VI

What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will? 
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page?
 
00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118
 
00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance.
 
01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen."
 
01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.”
 
01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🙂 )
 
01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:08 kevin: Thank you
 
01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part V

Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us. 
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49
 
00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello!  We are new to the group.  We live in Colorado.
 
00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116
 
00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate!
 
00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you!  Good to be here!
 
00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy!
 
00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke
 
00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell
 
00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory
 
00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on?
 
00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51
 
00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks!
 
00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander?
 
00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant
 
00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean?
 
00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one..
 
00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning'
 
00:43:08 Rachel: lol me!
 
00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it..
 
00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy?
 
00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a  young man.
 
00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance?  Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition?
 
00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before
 
00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes
00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful.
 
01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church.
 
01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer?
 
01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject?
 
01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:46 Rachel: haha
 
01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊
 
01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you!
 
01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂
 
01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
01:16:01 Riccardo Orlandi: thank!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part IV

We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28
 
00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂
 
00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues
 
00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless
 
00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them.
 
00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study
 
00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating!
 
00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing.
 
01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing?
 
01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you
 
01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part III

Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us. 
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short. 
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world? 
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow!
 
00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112
 
00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors
 
00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling
 
00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :)
 
00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe?
 
00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins?
 
00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts?  Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad.
 
00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen!
 
00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane
 
00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary
 
00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short'
 
01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration?
 
01:10:56 Anthony: alloy?
 
01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made....
 
01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part II

The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly.  They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace.  This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff.
 
00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear?
 
00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org
 
00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears.
 
00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this?
 
00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow.  His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality.
 
00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge?
 
00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios
 
00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan
 
00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state.
 
00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station.  One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant.  It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this?
 
00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us.
 
01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
01:12:21 Daniel Allen: This makes sense. If you plead guilty you will skip past trying to prove your innocence and simply ask for mercy from the judge. But if you are busy trying to put up a defense you have no time to simply beg for mercy.
 
01:16:26 Henry Peresie: That happens often in Facebook.
 
01:22:48 CMoran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:22:54 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:56 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:23:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:06 kevin: thank you
 
01:23:08 Deiren Masterson: God bless you Father - you are a gift.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXX, Part I

Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us. 
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX
 
00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish.  We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs.
 
00:31:04 carol: And obedience
 
00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE)
 
00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins
 
01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 
 
01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has!
 
01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring
 
01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men
 
01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!!
 
01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E
 
01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e
 
01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all
 
01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VI: On the Remembrance of Death and Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning

To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire. 
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it. 
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil.
 
00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all.  :)
 
00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it?
 
00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting.  So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest.
 
00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense.
 
00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete.
 
00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance.  Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it.  We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit>
 
01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with!
 
01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving!
 
01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you
 
01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part IV and Chapter VI: On Remembrance of Death, Part I

We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107
 
00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice:  Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life?
 
00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty?
 
01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose.
 
01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art.
 
01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits
 
01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part III

It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz.
 
00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂
 
00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday.
 
00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like?
 
00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
Berean Standard Bible · Download
 
 
Cross References
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
 
John 10:6
Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
 
 
Treasury of Scripture
But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
The dog.
 
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
 
2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire..
 
00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly
 
00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful
 
00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my
sins
 
00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty.  They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition.
 
01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;)
 
01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way
 
01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._
 
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part II

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God. 
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant? 
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."
 
00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.
 
00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection
 
00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.
 
00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.
 
00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.
 
01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.
 
01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.
 
01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman
 
01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.
 
01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.
 
01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️
 
01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part I

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy. 
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell. 
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97
 
00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important
 
00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?
 
00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?
 
00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.
 
01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.
 
01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.
 
01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XVI

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114
 
00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion
 
00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.
 
00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?
 
00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.
 
00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.
 
00:50:02 Rachel: yep
 
00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.
 
00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!
 
00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life
 
00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.
 
00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.
 
00:57:31 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂
 
01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.
 
01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.
 
01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.
 
01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!
 
01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!
 
01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.
 
01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂
 
01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XV

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith. 
Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross. 
We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?”
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110
 
00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.
 
00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice
 
00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice
 
00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀
 
00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110
 
00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!
 
00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.
 
00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility
 
00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"
 
00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣
 
00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....
 
00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?
 
00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years
 
00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?
 
00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi
 
00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner
 
00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre
 
00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ
 
00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?
 
00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo
 
00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear
 
00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL
 
01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?
 
01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.
 
01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way
 
01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.
 
01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father
 
01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!
 
01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIV

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D
 
00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?
 
00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91
 
00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/
 
00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!
 
00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?
 
00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.
 
00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂
 
00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience
 
00:55:01 Rachel: LOL
 
00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.
 
00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.
 
01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance
 
01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets
 
01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄
 
01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.
 
01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often
 
01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.
 
01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow
 
01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You
 
01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)
 
01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."
 
01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father
 
01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen
 
01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!
 
01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!
 
01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!
 
01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!
 
01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you
 
01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly
 
01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!
 
01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address
 
01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!
 
01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you
 
01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat
 
01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIII

One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence? 
What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty!
 
00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at?
 
00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91
 
00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody.
 
00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about?
 
00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written.
 
00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well.
 
00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell
 
00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert
 
00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅
 
00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96
 
01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will
 
01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence.
 
01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around
 
01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article
 
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/
 
01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though!
 
01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ."
 
01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation
 
01:16:27 Art: Thank you father.  Good night!
 
01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
 
01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all
 
01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:39 kevin: thanks
 
01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XII

I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense.  Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88
 
00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please
 
00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88
 
00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81
 
00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u
 
00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here
 
00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity.
 
00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults  causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves?  Doesn’t justice demand that?
 
00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth
 
00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.”
 
00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions).
 
00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness.
 
00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community?
 
01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here?
 
01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child..
 
01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart.
 
01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out.  I didn't hear what you just announced.
 
01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼
 
01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes
 
01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week)
 
01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you.
 
01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you!
 
01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers
 
01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much!
 
01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David!
 
01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father.  Good night
 
01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!!
 
01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event.
 
01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father
 
01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!!
 
01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen.  Thank you Father.
 
01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XI

As we allow ourselves to be drawn deeper into the meaning of obedience by St. John’s writing, we begin to see the beauty of the virtue itself and the fruit that it produces within the soul. It is not a slavishness or weakness of will, but rather a soul that has been awakened to the lack of freedom that comes from self-judgment and that is limited or obscured by sin. The more that the heart is purified by grace and the ascetic life, the more we begin to long for obedience because it is an imitation of our Lord. It is His obedience that has led us all to the freedom of life and love in God. We become the greatest confessors of the faith when we conform ourselves to Him in this fashion. A true spiritual father, then,  is going to guide their spiritual children along this path that treasures humility, stillness, silence and unceasing prayer.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 87
 
00:04:12 FrDavid Abernethy: paragraph 72
 
00:19:17 Anthony: Thus, we have Vladika David ;)
 
00:29:25 Anthony: This humility is different than the idea that man is totally depraved but God declares us just. That religious idea can/does lead to self-loathing.  The hopefulness is in the infusion of Grace and Love which God gives us very wounded people.  That is a happy hope in contrast to our weakness and realization of our darkness outside of being attached to the Vine.
 
00:40:31 Anthony: There is a Bulgarian Orthodox Skete in Palmyra, VA near Charlottesville.
 
00:47:21 Rachel: They may, by this silence, learn to worship God in the moment. Standing silent before the other and suspending judgment..
 
00:47:59 Eric Ewanco: how is silence concretely rooted in gentleness and love?
 
00:48:04 Rachel: May be a way to practice faith and wait patiently for God to reveal Himself
 
00:51:11 Rachel: I don't think it means that we wont meet with situations where we find others contradicting us, or, when we are actively trying to be silent ourselves contradicting others all day long. So the silence may bring up a lot of uncomfortable contradictions where we learn by necessity, to wait patiently and rely on God in His good providence. It is not an inactive silence
 
00:52:02 Rachel: Its not rendering oneself dumb
 
00:53:13 Carol: Like the Blessed Virgin, pondering in one’s heart
 
00:54:23 Johnny Ross: Isn't this silence related to our Saviors Kenosis? It is an emptying of ourselves. Related also to the Via Negativa?
 
00:59:24 Anthony: When we are emptied, we want to be filled, to have an identity; but it
 
01:00:13 Anthony: it's awfully hard to follow Jesus because we can't grasp or contain Him, so we want to build ourselves into an image of what we want to be or should be.
 
01:01:03 Anthony: the heirs of the maccabees
 
01:05:52 Rachel: today
 
01:06:30 Rachel: in whole foods yesterday lol
 
01:08:28 Johnny Ross: Yes, we face a stark choice today, Either we worship God or we worship ourselves.
 
01:09:01 Anthony: /because prayer is work?
 
01:12:34 Bridget McGinley: The Bible states to Pray Always... the theme of The Way of the Pilgrim
 
01:14:42 Rachel: Instead of stripping oneself of everything that may stand in the way of God. Emptying our hearts can feel uncomfortable. prayer can become like building up a wall. Sort of like coming to God every time in prayer and only making small talk or talking at Him, instead of listening and silencing everything that causes anxiety. A way of controlling the conversation for fear of hearing something that is displeasing.
 
01:17:02 Carol Nypaver: Saint Augustine ~ “When the word of God increases, human words fail.”
 
01:17:50 Debra: And how can you tell the difference?
 
01:18:11 Debra: Between desolation, or being drawn deeper?
 
01:19:46 Debra: Good points...linger in those moments...see where God is taking us
 
01:20:39 Rachel: I think St Sophrony and St Silouan speak of this. I wonder is there always a correlation between desolation and being drawn deeper? Almost like suddenly becoming aware in a deeper sense that in ourselves, we lack the capacity to run to Him. To feel His presence
 
01:21:13 Rachel: So we wait, and stay with Him. St Therese speaks of this too
 
01:22:33 Anthony: That is what Purgatory is, per Dante.
 
01:23:01 Anthony: a longing to be free, repaired and pure for love.
 
01:24:21 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:24:33 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone
 
01:24:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!!!
 
01:24:36 Rachel: lol yes
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part X

Tonight we continued with our study of Step 4 on Obedience. As we go deeper into St. John’s writing we begin to see the fruit of this virtue that often remains hidden to our eyes. Our obedience fosters habit; in particular the habit of virtue where one acknowledges that God is a fellow laborer. Obedience also shapes the way that we approach the confession of our sins. It allows us to see their gravity, and it fosters within us the deepest sense of compunction. The fruit of this, however, is a repentance the draws us back into the arms of God swiftly and allows us to experience His healing grace. The great virtue also makes us cherish the gift of the Holy Eucharist more fully. We begin to understand how precious this gift is and so desire to protect our minds and our hearts from the greater attacks that often come after receiving our Lord. It also allows us to see that we do not engage in this battle in isolation but rather we march with the first martyr, that is Christ. Through obedience we always have the Divine Physician with us. If we do fall we are immediately aided and healed by his presence. For this reason we must also choose well a competent spiritual physician, an elder who himself has been formed and shaped by this great virtue. For St. John tells us that obedience brings humility and out of this humility is born dispassion. The more that we walk along this path the more we begin to experience the angelic life; that is, we begin to experience the very peace and the joy of the kingdom, God draws us into the very perfection of His Love.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 86, para 63
 
00:14:35 CMoran: I work at WQED so maybe I can run across 5th Ave. for liturgy.
 
00:14:49 CMoran: Cindy
 
00:15:46 Anthony: A lot of restraunters and homeschooling families?
 
00:18:07 Bonnie Lewis: Excellent!
 
00:20:11 Rachel: Thatsna 10 percent down payment in Cali
 
00:20:26 Rachel: lol
 
00:35:38 Marco da Vinha: Though I am a Latin, looking at Forgiveness Sunday just before Lent - the "Tithe of the Year" - brings to mind Mt 5:23-24: "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
 
00:37:51 Eric Ewanco: It's easier to be humble when we are wrong, especially with those who are humble. It is much harder to be humble when we are right, dealing with those who are prideful and arrogant!
 
00:46:54 Kevin Clay: What does John mean by the last part: “For it is better to war with pollutions (thoughts) than with conceit.”
 
00:47:10 Bridget McGinley: What might those additional "spiritual sacrifices" look like after confession?
 
00:48:25 Rachel: Pride versus thoughts of various kinds that show the wounds of our disloyalty. ride may be more difficult and subtle?
 
00:49:05 Br Theophan the non-recluse: @kevin if one presumes that they have truly won the spiritual battle, then they fall prey to the sin of conceit, which is worst being engaged in a spiritual battle, as one is then too spiritually blind to see their sinful state
 
00:49:09 Rachel: Pride* o dear sorry for  the typos
 
00:50:08 Rachel: ty Brother Theophan
 
00:52:45 Carol: Theophan said something similar about the time immediately after Communion, to seek solitude and privacy in one’s room to deepen the intimacy of prayer
 
00:53:48 Eric Ewanco: I believe, Lord, and profess that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, come to this world to save sinners, of whom I am the greatest.  I believe also that this is really your spotless body and that this is really your precious blood.  Wherefore I pray to You: have mercy on me and pardon my offenses, the deliberate and the indeliberate, those committed in word and in deed whether knowingly or inadvertently; and count me worthy to share without condemnation your spotless mysteries, for the remission of sins and for eternal life.
 
Receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in your mystical supper: for I will not betray your mystery to your enemies, nor give You a kiss like Judas, but like the thief, I confess You: remember me, Lord, in your kingdom.
 
00:54:06 Marco da Vinha: Father, a bit of a digression, but do you have any idea of when penances to combat the passions stopped being the norm in the West? My own experience in the confessional has always been "pray X/Y/Z" and never any concrete actions to combat the vices I struggle with. And yet I read recently a saintly 16th century Dominican archbishop advising his priests to give penances according the the sins confessed: fasting for sins of gluttony/lust; almsgiving for avarice; prayer for sloth/acedia...
 
00:55:00 Eric Ewanco: "May the reception of your holy mysteries, Lord, be for me not to judgment or condemnation, but to the healing of (my) soul and body. Amen."
 
01:00:05 Henry Peresie: St. John Vianney was one of those priests who spent many hours in  the confessional.
 
01:04:49 Eric Ewanco: I thought "hesychasm" arose a few centuries after John?
 
01:08:28 Anthony: As David said, something like even his bones groaned.
 
01:18:08 Rachel: This reminds me of the rich young man who encountered Our Lord Himself and went away sad, not willing to give up his attachments. How he followed all of the commandments in obedience..
 
01:18:38 Rachel: yet, God is found in His commandments. Or, hidden in His commandments.
 
01:19:09 Anthony: it makes sense since angels are under obedience and they are in God's happy presence.
 
01:20:04 Anthony: and here i thought they always were talking about not marrying.  wow.
 
01:23:11 Rachel: The older copy's introduction is wonderful!
 
01:24:02 Marco da Vinha: God bless, Father!
 
01:24:08 CMoran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:24:18 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:24:20 Bonnie Lewis: thank you again Father!  Always wonderful.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part IX

Tonight we continued our reading of Step 4 on Obedience and its practice in the spiritual life. Saint John, as well as so many of the desert fathers, unearth what we typically keep hidden within our hearts. Rather than living in a spirit of obedience and allowing that obedience to bear the fruit of humility within us by setting aside our own willfulness, we cling to the illusions of self-sufficiency. Despite all that Christ has done and despite all that God has given to us, we believe that we can live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The humility that obedience fosters teaches us that we cannot externalize or distance ourselves from the evil and the sin of the world. There is a radical solidarity between ourselves and others that demands a constant movement of our heart - repentance. Whenever we see evil or sin, our first movement must be toward God in a cry for mercy and healing. We must humbly lay bare our wound to the physician and without being ashamed say: “It is my wound, father, it is my plague, caused by my own negligence, and, not by anything else. No one is to blame for this, no man, no spirit, no body, nothing but my own carelessness.“  We must allow these words to penetrate our hearts to root out all the excuses we put forward in order to remain in a place of mediocrity.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:16 Anthony: Congratulations Fr David!
 
00:17:24 CMoran: Question: What is Prelest? I off-topic--If not appropriate, please ignore the question.
 
00:17:53 CMoran: Sorry..."IF"
 
00:17:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I missed what you said Father  Where are you assigned?
 
00:18:02 Mark Kelly: Prelest is like a spiritual illusion of ones self.
 
00:18:18 Edward Kleinguetl: SS Peter & Paul in Duquesne, PA
 
00:18:20 Eric Ewanco: Prelast is Spiritual deception, I'm sure Father can elaorate
 
00:21:14 Mark Kelly: Prelest, in the extreme, is seeing one’s self as a prophet or spiritual guide or some exulted person. In common terms it is something we all must deal with. Spiritually deceiving ourselves.
 
00:53:01 Edward Kleinguetl: A priest once told me in confession that "no reformer ever had bitterness in his heart."
 
00:53:33 Edward Kleinguetl: And I have to remind myself of that frequently.
 
00:55:35 Marco da Vinha: What you say, Father, reminds me both of St. Nektarios - who carried out penance for his seminarians faults - as well as St. Bartholomew of Braga - who, as an archbishop, would, on occasion, do penance for his priests' sins.
 
00:57:14 Ambrose Little, OP: There’s also the observation you (Father) have mentioned many times, which is the challenge of clinging to one's own judgment being perhaps one of the most difficult failures in humility to overcome. It’s always worth meditating on the likely possibility that our own judgment may be in error or, at the very least, that our interpretation of another's words and actions may be in error. (Not talking about glaring and established moral failures like the abuse scandals, but the more common criticisms that this or that pastor is not saying what we’d have them say.)
 
00:58:37 Anthony: Being one who thinks a LOT - thinking and ruminating too much is not healthy.  Prayer is where the goodness and healing is (at the very least, it's an emotional outlet to get rid of the thoughts), but the devil's fog machine blinds us to its availability.  My parish priest said something in a homily like: we often make our own crosses and they are too heavy; the cross God makes for us is better and easier for us.
 
01:02:03 Marco da Vinha: @Anthony, I think Dostoevsky put it best in Notes from the Underground when the narrator says "To think too much is a disease." I have found that to be very much the case in my own life
 
01:09:32 Lee Graham: We are all guilty
 
01:09:38 Marco da Vinha: Father, is the kind of Confession that the Fathers mention different than the sacrament of Penance as we understand it now in the West? Was this Confession that took place within the elder/disciple relationship? The Fathers tell us to reveal our inner thoughts, our inner wounds in Confession, yet we are brought up in the West with the "just state kind and number" approach to Confession. Many times we don't give the priest much context, and we receive no advice either about our vices, even when the same priest here's our confessions on a regular basis.
 
01:10:09 Babington (or Babi): It and your comments are very helpful. Thank you.
 
01:16:00 Bridget McGinley: Father can the evil one enter the confessional and disturb either the priest or the penitent during the confession?
 
01:19:34 CMoran: Thank you Father! And thank you everyone!
 
01:19:43 Marco da Vinha: Thank you Father! Goodnight!
 
01:20:37 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father! Such a grace!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VIII

We continued our reading of Step 4 from the Ladder of Divine Ascent on Obedience and the spirit with which it is practiced. What one begins to see in the writings of the Fathers is that obedience is not slavishness that destroys the personality or the will of the other. It arises out of a relationship; first and foremost the relationship between the Father and the Son that brought about our salvation; wherein Christ through the Spirit of love became obedient even unto death on the cross. Obedience within this world and obedience to one’s spiritual father is rooted in a similar relationship of mutual love. Spiritual father and son must be well disposed to each other in order that what is given and what is received is done so in love. Only then will bear fruit and only then will it bring a kind of invincible joy. To live in obedience is to find freedom; freedom from fear and anxiety, freedom from the darkness that sin brings to us.  Through obedience we always have someone to guide us back to the narrow way, one who shows us the light that allows us to move forward. Let us pray through Saint John Climacus that God would cultivate this great virtue within our hearts. 
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:47 FrDavid Abernethy: page 83, para 45
 
00:28:54 Daniel Allen: The blog “Glory to God for all things” had a great article on this titled “saving knowledge and blessed ignorance”. What we don’t know can be more important than what we know, and what we know is much less than we like to think.
 
00:31:02 Anthony: On one hand, I think he's right.  On the other hand, does one have a responsibility to try and share specialized knowledge for guidance to a perceived good or guidance away from a bad thing - but with discretion in how you propose the idea?
 
00:41:54 Rachel: That is extremely rare but so very beautiful.
 
00:47:26 Bridget McGinley: How does one reconcile in practice the advice in the Psalms and other Biblical verses like “ It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man” with the virtue of obedience and trust in a confessor/elder? Especially if there have been grave misunderstandings in the past.
 
00:56:52 Daniel Allen: St. Ambrose to St. Monica: ““God’s time will come,” the bishop reassured her, but she was so persistent he finally urged, “Go now, I beg you. It is not possible that the son of so many tears should perish.””
 
00:57:49 Debra: ❤️
 
01:04:25 Rachel: lol
 
01:08:31 Ambrose Little: depends on who the sub is
 
01:08:41 Debra: 😁
 
01:11:38 Ren Witter: This is so true! Even in my dreams, I find myself asking: what would my spiritual father think of this or that behavior? It becomes such a deeply established way of thinking. Its really beautiful, and a blessing. Another reason that the habit of exposing one's thoughts to a Father is so good - knowing that you will tell him everything, you become more careful with what you allow yourself to do. Such wise advice
01:13:23 Debra: So my biggest take away is of spiritual maturity...but does that maturity come *from* obedience; or does the obedience need to come first to gain that spiritual maturity
 
Like the monk that was willing to accept years of penance...that would take spiritual maturity...but if he had that, he wouldn't have needed the penance...or am I missing something?
 
01:13:58 Debra: Yes, exactly
 
01:14:00 Debra: lol
 
01:14:42 Ambrose Little: Wise words from Bob: "baby steps"
 
01:16:18 Debra: Thank you that's a deeper take away
 
01:18:25 Babington (or Babi): Hope to contribute someday. Thank you very much. God bless you all. 🙏🏼🤍
 
01:20:29 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much for all that you do Ren!
 
01:21:07 Ambrose Little: the "non-recluse” lol that's awesome
 
01:21:19 Ren Witter: Yes!! I just saw that. Hahah. Amazing
 
01:21:38 Br Theophan the non-recluse: It’s been the most consistent joke since my investiture last weekend🤣
 
01:22:09 Carol Nypaver: Hooray!
 
01:22:31 Sheila Applegate: Congratulations!
 
01:22:46 Rachel: Bro Theophan is in Cali? Yay =)
 
01:23:21 Br Theophan the non-recluse: 2.5 hours north of San Fran!
 
01:23:23 CMoran: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:27 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:30 Debra: Thank you!
 
01:23:31 Rachel: Sacramento here
 
01:23:33 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:23:39 Bonnie Lewis: Bye all!
 
01:23:41 Rachel: Goodnoght Father!