Season 6

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis I, Part II

In hypothesis 1 of book 2 of The Evergetinos, we continue to hear one story after another of the humility of the fathers. Again and again, what we find emphasized is the willingness to set aside the self and the ego. We cling so fiercely to a sense of self-esteem and religious identity that gives us a sense of value or elevates us in the view of others. However, as with so many of the virtues, we find the monks, loving humility; pursuing it precisely because of what it produces within the soul and the freedom that it brings. 
What it produces is not the perfection of virtue as we understand it. By letting go of the self, Christ lifts us up to share in his life and glory. Thus, we find repeated stories of monks trying to hide themselves and any recognition of their holiness by fleeing the company of men. Yet, so often they find themselves discovered because the very glory of God shines forth from their countenance. 
The opposite of vice is not virtue, but rather Christ living within us. We put on Christ. We are conformed to him by Grace. If the world is attracted to anything, it is to that reality. The monks understood this. The only thing they feared was being drawn away from the path of humble obedience.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:58 Suzanne: I found the exact volume we're starting on kindle for $9.99
 
00:10:10 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I found the exact vo…" with 👍
 
00:10:22 Steve Yu: Excellent. Thank you!
 
00:10:53 Suzanne: I tried my mic. It doesn't work. Yes, Amazon kindle.
 
00:12:14 Suzanne: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZJGFSPL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
00:12:45 Steve Yu: Reacted to "https://www.amazon.c…" with ❤️
 
00:31:44 Adam Paige: The Kindle version of the Evergetinos is a different translation. I believe this is the one Father is reading from: https://a.co/d/fcClhxD
 
00:32:38 Suzanne: Replying to "The Kindle version o..."
 
Yes, I enjoy it.
 
00:33:02 Suzanne: Reacted to "The Kindle version o..." with 👍
 
00:34:11 Rod Castillo: Litany of Humility
 
00:35:03 Suzanne: Card. Merry del Val
 
00:38:03 Rebecca Thérèse: When St John of the Cross was in the final weeks of his life he had to go from is hermitage to a monastery for them to take care of him. He chose to go to Ubeda rather than Baeza because he was known in Baeza and he didn't want the attention his holiness would attract there.
 
00:45:52 Suzanne: Roman Discipline, Order, and Common Sense. The Church understands both the power of the official worship of the Church and the feebleness of human nature.
 
01:08:44 Suzanne: Thank you, Father!
 
01:08:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:08:46 Lorraine Green: Thank you FAther
 
01:09:33 Louise: Thanks, Fr.
 
01:09:34 Adam Paige: Thanks you so much, Father !
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis I, Part I

We began this evening with page one of the second volume of The Evergetinos. In many ways, we pick up where we left off in the first volume with humility. However, we are given very explicit examples of those who are a model of the virtue. Perhaps it would be better said that they present us with an other-worldly manifestation of the virtue - the Holy Fool. 
Such individuals, so driven by the love for Christ, have set aside so completely self-esteem and reputation that their presence reveals the poverty,  inadequacy or complete lack of this holy virtue in others; especially those who deem themselves to be religious. 
To hear the stories of their lives almost knocks the wind out of the reader. The very presence of their sanctity brings down upon them the scorn and the abuse of others. They embody Christ’s teaching, “You will be hated by all because of my name.” They are hated because they embodied the humility of Christ, who counted reputation as nothing, emptied himself and became a servant, obedient unto death. 
It is hard to be in the presence of such individuals. Their hidden sanctity will still speak to the souls of those in their midst and provoke a reaction. The demons who guide and direct our thoughts will seek to make us mock and ridicule them and blind us to their true goodness. Thus, they provide us with a cautionary tale – that in our lesser moments we are capable of mocking the Lord in others, when we hold them in contempt. We are not so far from committing such unholy violence in our hearts, when we lose sight of the dignity of those around us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:02 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you! 
I am driving right now.
 
00:11:45 Suzanne: Can hear a pin drop!
 
00:12:55 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with 📌
 
00:13:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with ☺️
 
00:35:06 Rebecca Thérèse: The thing that people don't understand is that even if she had been a simpleton and their judgement of her was correct, they still shouldn't have treated her like that. "For inasmuch as you did it to the least of these..."
 
00:36:47 sharonfisher: It’s odd to me that the most holy among us behave this way.
 
00:36:57 Louise: Was she a victim soul?
 
00:39:02 maureencunningham: They did not see her
 
00:40:53 Suzanne: She reflected Christ's attribute of taking upon Himself the sins of mankind.
 
00:42:49 Lee Graham: No doubt, she forgave all those who abused her, lest they would have to live separated from God throughout eternity
 
00:43:16 sharonfisher: How is it that she feigned foolishness, 1st para. Was she testing them?
 
00:43:29 maureencunningham: Did the early church  run to be Marty
 
00:45:33 Anthony Rago: If she were foolish perhaps she was like Brother Juniper, companion of St Francis, very plain kind and simple. Perhaps even a little "touched" but that weakness became a strength by grace.
 
00:46:44 Suzanne: The Age of the Desert corresponds to the Age of Heresy, post persecution. It's a communal reparation.
 
00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "If she were foolish …" with ❤️
 
00:58:57 Sean: it would be hard to find someone who "longs to be loathed"...quite the opposite...
 
01:00:33 Rebecca Thérèse: The problem with being loathed is that people don't just loathe you and leave you alone, they're constantly bothering you with their loathing!
 
01:01:04 Suzanne: Reacted to "The problem with bei..." with ❤️
 
01:05:31 sharonfisher: I so agree, the West sometimes pays less attention to the saints than I would like. But in an effort to provide services that people (families) can actually attend, they have to cut somewhere.
 
01:07:37 Adam Paige: I think the West has emphasized the temporal cycle over the sanctoral cycle in recent years, but if the Office of Readings and the Martyrology could become more prevalent in the life of the church, that would go some way to helping
 
01:09:29 Anthony Rago: I was thinking this sounded like the charcoal saint!  Didn't Alexander also see Our Lady of Blachernae promising to protect the city from besieging barbarians?
 
01:11:54 Michael Hinckley: The West tends to get very Thomistic I believe.
 
01:13:16 Suzanne: Father, is it too late to ask a question about one of your FB posts?
 
01:13:37 Suzanne: You put up a quote from St. Symeon: “For unless a person has been trained in strict vigilance, so that when attacked by a flood of useless thoughts he tests and sifts them all … he is readily seduced in many unseen ways by the devil.” Presuming there is no human being available to train and guide you in learning to discipline your thoughts, how do you acquire this skill? Is there a book you can recommend that gives practical instruction on how to purify the thoughts?
 
01:14:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "You put up a quote f…" with ❤️
 
01:14:18 Suzanne: LOL!
 
01:14:38 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "LOL!" with 👍
 
01:16:46 sharonfisher: Thank you for not rushing us through this and allowing
questions and discussion. So valuable!
 
01:17:01 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ☦️
 
01:17:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ❤️
 
01:17:30 Sean: the coal carrier reminds me the movie the island
 
01:17:48 maureencunningham: Thank You Blessing
 
01:17:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "the coal carrier rem..." with 👍
 
01:17:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:17:58 Suzanne: Great meeting, and God bless you all!
 
01:18:00 Anthony Rago: Reacted to the coal carrier rem... with "👍"
 
01:18:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father
 
01:18:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ❤️
 
01:18:22 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ☦️
 
01:18:40 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you.
 
01:19:06 sharonfisher: And to your spirit!
 

The Evergetinos - Conclusion of Volume One

Tonight we read the final hypotheses of the First Volume of the Evergetinos. From beginning to end the volume and its teachings are as challenging as they are beautiful. 
The focus this evening was on our attachment to the things of this world; whether those things be the praise of men or material objects and clothing. As always the fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Their ability to touch upon the most subtle aspects of the passions and temptations is extraordinary. Even when we let go of material attachments we can cling to a kind of spiritual raiment. It takes a great deal of time and grace to break loose of the fetters that hold us; our desire for the pleasures of this world, both great and small. 
Even the monk can hold on to certain implements or clothing when there is no need for them other than the satisfaction that they offer in the possessing of them. Frugality and modesty in dress should be virtues that we love and cultivate. In a culture where there is an abundance of everything on demand. Our sharing in this has become habitual and it can be overwhelmingly difficult to overcome. What we see in the fathers is the constant reminder to adorn the soul. We are to store up treasure for ourselves in heaven.  It is  the poor that we have received that become our greatest advocates before the throne of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:50 FrDavid Abernethy: page 414
 
00:36:13 Anthony Rago: The Island had a scene regarding the abbot having a coat of which he was too fond. He was eventually glad to be freed of that attachment by the "crazy" monk.
 
00:37:07 Suzanne: Over the course of my life, I have pretty much ruined every single thing I’ve ever put my hand to, because I simply cannot act except in order to draw praise from my performance. I’m aware of it, ashamed of it, but cannot put this passion to death. I don’t think I’ve ever employed a talent or ability with a pure intention.
 
00:37:52 Michael Hinckley: reminds me of the story of Alexander Magnus, once offered a cup of water in a time of dryness poured it out saying too much for one, not enough for many.
 
00:47:16 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Over the course of m..." 
 
 Perhaps "ruined" is ...
 
00:49:32 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
True, thank you.
 
00:50:09 Maureen Cunningham: Maybe they were not attached to anything in this world. And had no need for natural things . Only for the heavenly
 
00:50:51 Anthony Rago: Reacted to True, thank you. with "❤️"
 
00:51:37 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
@Suzanne when we give thanks to others it is also an act of charity. Fr is right magnanimity is a gift we are given to excel, in an orderly fashion
 
00:51:40 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
Father has a good nous. He actually hit the nail on the head. 😇
 
00:52:22 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
Thank you, Michael.
 
01:00:36 Maureen Cunningham: I have a. Question when I went to Rome I
 
01:01:15 Michael Hinckley: are not robes (clothes) tools as well. serve purposes, again ordered fashion. That which we labor in is not the wedding garment
 
01:01:28 Anthony Rago: About not making things you see that you like ....I can see not doing this out of envy. But making something out of love for doing something good and beautiful, or because it is an inherent vocation is a good thing.  I started my hobby because I saw a beautiful repousse picture and I just
knew I had to make something like that.
 
01:01:29 Maureen Cunningham: Questions when I went to Rome Saint Peter allot beauty not what the desert Fathers had why so different
 
01:03:04 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..."
 
In this culture, dressing well is a good work.
 
01:04:08 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..."
 
Dress like a lady, etc.
 
01:11:39 Anthony Rago: We live in a society without these reminders and we are pagans
 
01:12:43 Anthony Rago: I mean, no icons, no images in public....and without these reminders we are pagans
 
01:13:12 Michael Hinckley: need to drop santa note all
 
01:13:38 Suzanne: Replying to "About not making thi..."
 
It's true freedom to make something beautiful with a pure heart.
 
01:15:05 Anthony Rago: Reacted to It's true freedom to... with "❤️"
 
01:19:59 Louise: My mother used to tell me, ''Louise, if you do something , do it well, as if you are doing it for God.'' I try, I try.
 
01:20:09 Suzanne: This is a multi-faceted issue. Communism deliberately destroys beauty, and Christendom has beautified every human art form. I believe that beauty is absolutely necessary for public order.
 
01:20:21 Suzanne: Reacted to "My mother used to te..." with ❤️
 
01:21:17 Suzanne: And there's nothing more beautiful than a priest or monk in habit/cassock.
 
01:21:28 Anthony Rago: Reacted to This is a multi-face... with "👍"
 
01:23:36 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "And there's nothing ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:35 Sean: I need it and I'm unworthy, that's an interesting take on things. Humility.
 
01:27:41 Paul: Wow Great Instruction !  Whats next?
 
01:28:33 Suzanne: Reacted to "Wow Great Instructio..." with 👍
 
01:29:45 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:30:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much!
 
01:30:20 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:30:30 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! Thank you!
 
01:30:56 Louise: Yvette and Steve in my prayers.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLVI, Part I

We are drawing close to the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos. We’ve come to the end of a long journey; but in reality it’s just the beginning for us. The fathers began by having us meditate long upon repentance. This is the starting point. The turning from the self toward God for healing. 
Now at the conclusion of the volume our eyes gaze  upon the vision of humility. Again, it is not the humility of this world, but the humility of God. It is the humility of a love that empties itself in order to lift others out of their poverty and darkness. It is the love that thinks nothing of the self but seeks only the fulfillment the will of the beloved. 
We were shown this evening and number of aspect of this humility. The first is self-reproach. He who seeks the honor of God and finds his identity rooted in God is going to seek nothing of the honor and privileges of this world. We are reminded that “all flesh is as grass and all the glory of man as the flower of grass”. Everything within this world passes away. Why do we cling to it so tenaciously, and yet hold so little desire for the love that searches us out constantly. “Heart speaks to heart.” We let go of everything, including our own ego, in order that nothing might impede our capacity to hear God’s Word of Love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:45:16 Sharon Fisher: Does that mean that if we were wholly aware of our faults and someone else called them out to us; we’d have already recognized and come to peace with them, and the accusation has no effect or sting?
 
00:48:43 Sharon Fisher: Turn the other cheek? Just allow them their feelings?
 
00:49:57 Steve Yu: Questions. Would praying for the spirit of repentance trigger humility? I ask because a constant state of humility seems like a difficult goal for me.
 
01:03:09 Suzanne: Just having to work in the world is a great opportunity to practice humility. How many times do we draw down upon ourselves the dislike and resentment of co-workers for no discernible reason?
 
01:14:35 Rory: Yes, 
heart speaking to heart
 
01:16:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:17:10 Sandy Nelson: Thank you
 
01:17:17 Suzanne: Thank you!
 
01:17:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:29 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!!
 
01:17:30 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VIII

What a privilege it is to read the fathers! As we are being drawn by them into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility, their vision of its beauty opens up before us. It is not something that only reveals the poverty of our sin and need for healing. Humility also reveals that we are made in the image and likeness of God. 
We should not see humility then from a negative perspective. It reveals also the highest truth about who we are as human beings. We are destined to share in the fullness of the life of God. Humility does begin by acknowledging the truth about ourselves and our need for healing. Over the course of time it is perfected by the struggles that we undergo and the great losses that we experience. Eventually, however, by the action of God’s grace it is brought to perfection and there exist within us no desire for sin and no lingering element of pride. We begin to see in that moment that humility is one of the qualities of our God. Suddenly our vision of the spiritual life changes. Everything is meant to draw us into the fullness of his life, virtue and love. Thanks be to God!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:33 Suzanne: Ave Maria!!
 
00:02:52 FrDavid Abernethy: Full of Grace
 
00:03:07 Suzanne: 😇
 
00:03:37 Suzanne: Father, did you get my email about St. Theophan series?
 
00:04:07 FrDavid Abernethy: Gee.  I don’t know.  I’ll have to go back and look.  So sorry
 
00:04:20 Suzanne: Ok!
 
00:04:34 FrDavid Abernethy: page 403 letter B
 
00:06:34 Suzanne: Father, have you seen the Russian movie, The Island?
 
00:06:57 Suzanne: I can't stop watching it!
 
00:08:03 Suzanne: I love the scene where he cures the attachments of the Abbot.
 
00:10:16 Suzanne: Mr. Yu, how is your wife?
 
00:32:33 Eric Ewanco: What does he mean by "discernment"? How might we wound the conscience of our neighbor?
 
00:34:05 Eric Ewanco: ok
 
00:36:52 Sean: what do you mean by to know the mind of God?
 
00:41:29 Louise: Does humility imply that I am ongoingly aware that I am necessarily defective and fallible, even if I try to be virtuous?
 
00:56:57 Suzanne: Lately I’ve been thinking more and more that we are infected with pride as children, by parents who show too much pride in our accomplishments or abilities. That’s where it begins, and the culture is more than happy to cement it into narcissism. It’s like an evil bond develops between affection and praise – so that affection is sought, not in accordance with nature and grace, but to satisfy pride. One’s heart contracts, no longer able to give itself in charity, because of the demands it places on others to give “excellence” it’s due.
 
00:58:33 Anthony Rago: This is soft. It's gentle.  It's like Dante's Paradise in which love is a force of motion.  I like this better than the way Roman Catholics of our time and country - not like the medievals like St Bernard - pass on the Faith.
 
01:00:11 sharonfisher: Re: earlier tonight - Opening the day with prayer and giving God first fruits is something I can relate to. To this point, I haven’t felt a purpose for early morning prayer (as opposed to prayer any other hour) — this resonates with me. I’m such a novice. Thank you!
 
01:00:35 Eric Ewanco: I agree with Suzanne. My mother was very proud of me, which fed my ego so much that my arrogance was off the charts. This alienated me from my peers and I never overcame it until high school. I literally didn't learn what the word "humble" meant until I was a teen. I loved her dearly but it was clearly deleterious. God saw fit that she passed away when I was 13, no doubt to spare me from the worst of it (that's terrible to say but as her son I can say it).
 
01:04:34 Lee Graham: When God reveals our defects of character, there  is no shame.
 
01:05:50 Suzanne: Father said, "Pride isolates." ABSOLUTELY!!
 
01:13:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂. Sorry I was so late, Zoom decided to update!
 
01:13:52 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:13:55 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father
 
01:13:59 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:59 Suzanne: Thank you so much for these groups!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VII

Coming towards the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos, it is clear that we are being nourished upon solid food. During these many weeks, the fathers have been leading us into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility. It is one thing to understand the definition of humility; even something as clear as “truthful living”. However, it is only in the illustrative stories that the fathers give us that we move from the realm of imagination, personal judgment and reason to see this virtue with the eyes of faith. What we are called to is the perfect humility of Christ; he who sought only to do the will of his heavenly father. Christ sacrifices himself for the sake of love. What we see in the stories is the subtlety with which we focus upon the ego even as we pursue things that are religious. We are presented in particular with a powerful story about Saint Anthony the Great. He is told that a cobbler in the city has reached a level of greater sanctity than he has despite his ascetic rigors. This cobbler saw himself as the least of all the people in the entire city and the most worthy of condemnation and judgment by God. He would tell himself this in the morning and at night. What is significant about this is that he does not compare himself with any other person in acknowledging this truth. Looking at God he can only see his need for mercy and for complete gratitude. Yet Anthony as great as he was and having sacrificed so much still had a question within his heart. Is there anyone out there who has attained a level of greater sanctity? At that moment, Anthony turns his gaze away from God in order to compare himself with others. He loses sight, if only for a moment, of God. To gaze only upon God and his love drives out every element of ego. There is only Christ!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 FrDavid Abernethy: page 400 para 76
 
00:09:41 Suzanne: LOL!!!
 
00:41:23 sharonfisher: I hope everyone knows about the Orthodox Christian Prison Ministry. Poor or wayward folks that end up imprisoned could benefit so much from the work these folks do. I feel like the prison cell could be substitute for a monk’s cell or the isolation of the desert fathers. (Not sure where this fits in the discussion, but seems relevant.)
 
00:42:11 sharonfisher: AGREE!
 
00:43:54 Michael Hinckley: St Thomas Moore choose to see his cell in the tower as such I believe.
 
00:46:24 Suzanne: I think that I've actually made myself sick from self-reproach because of my past. Thirty years of extreme desolation has warped my perception of God's love for my soul. Self-reproach can be a form of self-torture. The desert fathers is the first time anything I've come across has given me courage.
 
00:48:00 Lee Graham: Hear, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest.
 
01:12:13 Sean: Anthony's ego? gosh...he's called Great.
 
01:16:29 Sean: compare and despair
 
01:16:55 Steve Yu: Reacted to "compare and despair" with 👍
 
01:17:29 Maureen Cunningham: How do you not get into a self hate toward you life. did not the church father warn against self pity
 
01:18:46 Suzanne: Did you see the Russian movie, The Island, about the monk who was tortured by guilt, yet worked miracles?
 
01:19:17 Maureen Cunningham: Yes I saw movie wonderful
 
01:19:40 Suzanne: Incredible movie!
 
01:20:04 Nypaver Clan: Father, at the start of this discussion, you mentioned that the slightest turning toward God fills the heart with great Grace.  Likewise, the slightest turning away from God fills the heart with pride.
 
01:22:01 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you  Blessing prayers for you Father
 
01:22:09 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:22:12 Suzanne: Thank you so much!
 
01:22:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VI

Is it possible for us to let go of our private judgment - to let ourselves be led by the Spirit of God into the Truth? As we read the teachings and the stories of the fathers on humility and how this virtue is embodied, the difficulty of letting go of our own perspective on virtue, and what it is must be abandoned. The virtue that we are called to is the virtue of Christ. Once again, we are not called simply to the perfection of natural virtue or what we can attain by human effort. It is by the grace of God alone that we can let go of self-esteem and ego. We will cling to these with fierceness despite having the truth set before our eyes; what we see on the Cross and receive in the Eucharist. We are unwilling to yield the things of this world for that which is eternal - for the pearl of great price.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Anonymous Sinner: What page are we on?
 
00:18:20 Nypaver Clan: 397
 
00:18:54 Anonymous Sinner: Thank you!
 
00:19:24 Louise: It reminds me of the Orthodox priest whose life is depicted in the film entitled A Man of God in 2021.
 
00:19:35 Eric Ewanco: Today I was tempted to respond angrily to someone. I needed to hear this today.
 
00:21:21 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "397" with 👍
 
00:23:32 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Today I was tempted ..." 
 
 Lol...me too
 
00:25:36 Louise: Psychologically, forgiveness is seen as letting go of anger. Would you say that it is more than this?
 
00:29:18 Susanna Joy: I came home and a person who has been harrassing and unapologetic was sitting in my kitchen having a happy chat with my dearest friend here in the community. 
I could even get my tea water to boil...trying to let it go...
 
00:29:45 Susanna Joy: *could not even
 
00:30:18 Susanna Joy: Came straight to class
 
00:33:03 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
00:35:58 Anonymous Sinner: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
 
00:36:05 Anonymous Sinner: Romans 8:26-27
 
00:42:20 sharonfisher: Do you have a good book reference for understanding spiritual warfare? Whether by the Holy Fathers or more current? I have a hard
time really getting the concept.
 
00:43:17 Louise: ''Dominion'' by Fr. Chad Ripperger explains spiritual warfare.
 
00:43:34 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..." with 👍🏼
 
00:44:19 sharonfisher: Replying to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..."
 
🙂
 
00:44:38 Ashley Kaschl: “Discernment of Spirits” by Fr. Gallagher is good (it’s a purple book) 
 
And 
 
“Spiritual Warfare and The Discernment of Spirits” by Dan Burke
 
Those are good books to start with 🙏
 
00:45:33 Nypaver Clan: Was I the only one who thought the demon would enter the Elder since he said HE was the “goats”?
 
00:46:19 sharonfisher: Reacted to "“Discernment of Spir..." with 😃
 
00:47:18 Anonymous Sinner: I haven't read it, but my friend Paul Thigpen wrote the book "Manual For Spiritual Warfare", which I have heard is good
 
00:48:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "I haven't read it, b..." with 🙂
 
00:48:52 Suzanne Romano: 😅
 
00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "😅" with 😂
 
00:57:08 Eric Ewanco: Are we sure he *didn't* commit the sin of fornication, in perhaps the sense of in his heart?
 
01:04:02 Louise: Was this man, by prostrating toward the offender, signifying his surrender to God's will?
 
01:04:38 sharonfisher: One of the reasons I haven’t been doing prostrations in prayer is that the area rug is knobby and hard on my knees. I need to rethink that reasoning . . .
 
01:05:13 linda murton: prostration becomes like the groaning when no words sufficed?
 
01:07:52 linda murton: groaning refered to Abba Siscoes earlier,
 
01:14:57 Susanna Joy: Thank yoiu, Father.🙏🏻
 
01:15:01 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:15:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:08 Suzanne Romano: Thank you!
 
01:15:35 Susanna Joy: Spirit will guide you
 
01:15:40 sharonfisher: Tell us about it next time!
 
01:15:41 Susanna Joy: Will be praying
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part V

We were turn once again to the most important of virtues - humility. Despite the repeated sayings about humility and the many illustrative stories, one does not have a sense of the “same thing” being said over and over again. Rather, humility is like a precious gem. Through the writings and the sayings of the Fathers we revolve around it, allowing the light of Christ to illuminate every facet of this virtue. The Fathers want us to understand that even our virtue must be perfected by the grace of God. It is precisely this reality that we see manifest in the struggles of the Fathers to obtain it. It is so precious that one should be willing, as it were, to sell all to possess it. In this sense, humility is a willingness to let go of the self, the ego, in order that we might keep our minds and our hearts fixed upon Christ. It is by His grace alone that we are saved and it is by imitating His humility that the demons are overcome.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:39:05 Louise: Could you talk about the fear of God versus being in love with God?
 
00:49:39 Louise: Could we say that someone under a spell can be blinded by the spell of the demon so to have pride regarding how one is great in serving the demon without realizing it?
 
01:03:13 Louise: St. John says, "Do not love the world or anything in the world"? St. James seems to take it a step further when he writes, "Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." St. John also says, "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
 
01:13:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:35 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you🙂" with 👍
 
01:14:51 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part IV

How beautiful is the path that the Lord sets before us to draw us to Himself. Its beauty is rooted in the fact that it is the path that He took toward us. God reveals himself, He draws back to the veil, and shows us the depth of his humility, love and compassion. What we find in the desert fathers and in their sayings is a portrait of the gospels; more specifically a portrait of Christ himself - the humble crucified One.
We should never fear humility but rather gravitate towards it. It is something that we should love and cultivate precisely, because we know that it is part of the nature of God and His love, and that it unites us to Him. Whatever truth we acknowledge about ourselves, no matter how dark, it unites us to He who is Truth. This is the pearl of great price! It is the virtue that we should desire above all things and guard and protect as most precious.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:11 sue and mark: car caravan
 
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 391 para 31
 
00:28:48 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: 34 reminded me of a statement that often strikes me:
 
00:28:59 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It was said of Abba Macarius the Great that he became, according
to the writings, a god on earth, because in the way God protects
the world, so Abba Macarius would hide the faults he saw as
though he had not seen them, and the faults he heard about as
though he had not heard of them.
Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
00:36:59 Maureen Cunningham: Tree in Garden , once they ate they knew and then hid from God.
 
01:06:08 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Listening to this talk of humility, I wonder. I can at times act humbly on the outside, but I don't know what humility feels like. I'm not sure how one acquires humility on the inside, or lives consistently this way. Is becoming humble becoming like God? The only thought that comes to me is to be still and stare at God until He Himself ignites or consumes me. I don't think I know how to be humble
 
01:12:19 sue and mark: thank you Fr. abernethy.
 
01:12:20 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:12:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part III

Synopsis of Tonight’s Group on The Evergetinos:
We often hear the question: “How would you describe the taste of honey to another who has never had it or the taste of a pear or its texture?” We might ask the very same questions about the virtues and in particular that of humility. How do we describe something that another has never tasted or that we have barely tasted ourselves? More importantly, how do we describe something that expresses not natural virtue, but the virtue of Christ himself - that describes the Divine life. 
What is so striking about the desert fathers’ writing is that it brings the gospel alive. It becomes impossible for us to make the words that we hear as flat as the page upon which they are written. Suddenly they become embodied in a rich and powerful way through the lives of the Saints. They beckon us, like Christ, to take hold of what endures, to thirst for the love and virtue that leads us to intimacy with God, and to experience the true joy of the kingdom.
---
00:06:43 Paul: Hello
 
00:26:06 Louise: I do not know how to address with humility the fact that a friend has a picture of Moloch on the wall behind her when we talk on Zoom. She has always been fascinated by horror movies. I am worried that she worships the demonic, unconsciously. She says that she does not believe in God and does not know what happens after death, but she believes in the paranormal. She knows my devotion to Jesus Christ. Do you have an idea, Fr. David?
 
01:09:57 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 
01:10:03 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father!
 
01:10:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:10:29 Alexandra K: Thank you Father!
 
01:10:54 Noha’s iPad: Thanks 🙏
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part II

Humility is above all the other virtues.” Living in the truth allows for the most important thing to emerge in a person’s life – repentance. When we see and acknowledge the nature of our actions and our thoughts and we bring them before God, it is then that He can heal us and make us whole. 
The struggle to do this, however, can be great. There’s always part of us that wants to hold on to the illusion of creating our own dignity and identity. Humility compels us to acknowledge that all things begin and end with God. We certainly have our role to play in the Divine drama; however, one can have all the virtues and appear to be saintly, yet if they are lacking the virtue of humility, none of these virtues will bear fruit. If an individual is like the publican coming to the temple beating his breast and realizing that there is no virtue in him at all immediately he is justified in the eyes of God. He’s let go of the lie of the Evil One. 
We cannot take for ourselves what belongs to God alone. He is life and love and truth, and it is his mercy that allows us to participate in this reality. To be humble, to see ourselves as nothing of note, cost very little but promises everything in return.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 387
 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: no. 7
 
00:12:07 Jason: Good evening Fr and everyone
 
00:34:42 sharonfisher: But doesn’t opening with “How’s your prayer life?” seem like a pre-judgment that they aren’t attentive enough? “How are you doing?” can be sincere, but also allow individuals to share at their own comfort level. (Not trying to be contrary, but I maintain my own faith and am wary of coming across as holier-than-thou. Sorry, late comment to last segment.)
 
00:36:14 sharonfisher: I see - thank you!
 
01:03:43 alexandramucerino: We cannot forgive we do not first accept the injustice
 
01:05:26 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sometimes I'm quick to jump into problem-solving or project management in my life or ministry or others' lives. I'm wondering if the practice of humility would recommend that I stop and ask first, is this where God is working? It seems that I've been noticing God at work in subtle ways in my or others' lives, but not necessarily in what I think is more important or expedient. I'm wondering about humility here.
 
01:15:41 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:15:46 sharonfisher: And to your spirit! Thank you !
 
01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: thank you
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:56 sue and mark: thank you God bless.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIV, Part III and Hypothesis XLV, Part I

Humility often eludes us not only in practice but in our ability to understand it. As always, we have to look to Christ as the standard. What we see revealed in him through the incarnation and in the Paschal mystery opens the door for us to begin to walk this same path. 
Understanding comes through experience. We must be shown what humility is and be made humble through experience. So often the self seeks to place itself at the center of existence; and in our spiritual life we begin to lose sight of God. Even in the pursuit of sanctity, we can fail to see the ways that we are lacking purity of heart. We often do not desire God above all things, or make him the beginning and end of all that we do. We may toil but to no end. 
Having said this, the stories from the fathers begin to reveal to us the distinctive marks of humility in a man. These stories show us why it is not only the most important virtue but also the most powerful. It overcomes all that is demonic. The more we trust solely in the grace of God, the more we abandon ourselves to his mercy and acknowledge the poverty due to our sin, the more his grace transforms us and acts through us and touches the lives of others. Humility and its perfection goes beyond truthful living or acknowledging the truth about ourselves. It is having eyes only for God. It is living in him and for him in every measure.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:23 FrDavid Abernethy: page 385 paragraph 6
 
00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 384 para 6
 
00:25:02 Anthony: Emphasis on kindness....sounds like something St Gabriel of Georgia said.
 
00:38:56 Anthony: Yes
 
00:38:56 Jacqulyn: Yes
 
00:46:31 Louise: Would the Desert Fathers agree or disagree with the following. Hating sins makes us ''relate'' to sins and instills hatred inside of us. I prefer to practice detachment from sins, as much as possible, and feel sorrow at having turned my back to God.
 
00:54:48 Lee Graham: As I forgive someone who hurts me, I see my sin disappear.
 
01:13:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIV, Part II

Every generation, every person, must be made humble!  Whatever way that takes place - whatever means we are shown this, it must happen if we are to follow Christ, and if we are to live in Him. He is Humility because he is Truth. In fact, the simplest definition of humility for us is truthful living. We must live in the Truth that has been revealed to us - we must live in Christ. 
That sounds a lot easier than what it is. Our egos often snap back into the center. The self, even within the context of the spiritual life, wants to be recognized as having value and strength. We want to have the perception of lifting ourselves up out of the mire. 
It is a humbling thing in and of itself to be saved. To acknowledge a savior means that we acknowledge the truth of our own poverty and sin. It means that we must acknowledge that we are not the source of life and love. God gives it to us so freely and with such gentleness and yet we can resent Him for it. Christ endures all things for us. He makes himself so small so as to be non-threatening; that is, he gives himself to us as our very food and drink. He nourishes us upon himself and his love. Yet pride can blind us to it all. God wants no “thing” from us. He wants us. Sadly, to say “yes” to that love can be one of the hardest things of life.
 
----
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:41:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: After years of working professionally in the US, I'm formed to believe that results indicate that I'm doing the right thing. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that God could see my failure as beneficial. Or that feeling like a failure could have some value.
 
00:57:20 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that consolation outside of relationship with Christ could even be an impediment in the spiritual life.
 
01:11:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Is it that the people you quoted are telling us that we need to realize that humility is actually an attribute of God he shares with us.
 
01:15:32 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 
01:15:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIII, Part II and Hypothesis XLIV, Part I

I can say this without any caveat - reading the Evergetinos is one of the most important things that we could do for ourselves in the spiritual life. I know that might sound extreme; especially given all of the writings of the Fathers that we have read over the course of the years, including the writings of the Philokalia. 
Yet, there’s something exceptional about the Evergetinos. We are not only given specific teachings but we are shown the lived experience of the fathers; how they came to understand things in the way that they did about the human person, the struggle with sin, and the action of God’s grace. This became especially apparent in this evening’s group. Our focus, in particular, was on the virtue of humility. After pondering the sayings of the Fathers - that the truly wise individual is the one who has control over his volition, who seeks in every way to make his will subject to God and understands that the will of God is advantageous to him in a manner surpassing all human understanding. 
In and of itself this is beautiful and speaks to the heart. However, we segued into a story from the life of Saint Pachomius describing the birth and development of humility in the soul of one of his monks Simvanos. Suddenly all the truths we read about came to life. We move from the notional to the real very quickly. The human mind and our tendency towards rationalization easily draws us back to a worldly way of perceiving reality. Whereas the lives of the Saints reveal to us the heart of man and God; what it is to be created in the image and likeness of God, what it is to neglect that truth, and the beauty of the soul that emerges when the grace of God brings healing where once there was only sin.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:30 FrDavid Abernethy: page 377 Letter B
 
00:05:57 Jason: I do not have the text, but am looking to purchase soon
 
00:06:29 FrDavid Abernethy: Jason that’s fine.  We read the text as we go along
 
00:06:48 Jason: Reacted to "Jason that’s fine.  …" with ❤️
 
00:08:24 Jason: I am a catechumen in my local Orthodox Church, I do hope that I am still able to attend these
 
00:08:49 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..."
 
Absolutely!
 
00:09:12 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..."
 
You are not our only Orthodox/nearly Orthodox by any means 😊
 
00:09:14 Jason: Reacted to "Absolutely!" with ❤️
 
00:09:21 Jason: Reacted to "You are not our only…" with ❤️
 
00:10:00 Susanna Joy: Oh, wow...Congratulations, Father! Sounds wonderful.🎉🙏🏾😊
 
00:34:22 Anthony: Som people like me have a strong g attachment to duty. And to be incompetent to fulfill perceived duty is very difficult.
 
00:56:56 David Fraley: Reacted to "Som people like me h…" with 👍
 
01:03:32 Louise: Would you say that he developed humility because he was humiliated and accepted it due to the love embedded into the humiliation.
 
01:09:45 Anthony: I guess this answers a duty driven person. If you just can't find a way to complete duty, you can either become vicious to attain the goal or accept the humility borne from inability to complete the duty.
 
01:17:18 Maureen Cunningham: Poor in spirit
 
01:18:35 Maureen Cunningham: Life is potter's wheel
 
01:18:50 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾
 
01:18:52 Rachel: Thank you a thousand times.
 
01:19:11 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand…" with 💕
 
01:19:25 sue and mark: Thank you Father A.  Good night.
 
01:19:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand..." with 💕
 
01:19:41 Louise: God bless you, Fr.
 
01:19:42 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:19:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you
 
01:19:43 Melissa Kummerow: You too!
 
01:19:44 David Fraley: Thank you, Father.
 
01:19:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part IV and Hypothesis XLIII, Part I

One of the most difficult things about the faith is not simply desiring God with all of our heart, but allowing God and His desire for us to transform us and shape us. It means allowing Him to draw us into His own life and virtue. We are to become in the world what He is to us. 
Therefore, we are immediately confronted with the fact that we have to let go of the limited powers of our own reason and judgment. We must place our faith and hope in the providence of God to guide us along the path that leads to salvation. Like Saint Peter there often comes a time in our life when another binds us and leads us where we do not want to go. There will likely be many occasions when we are called to die to self and sin and to live for God alone  - come what may.! 
The afflictions that we bear and our desire NOT to force our will upon others can only emerge from this reality. We must put on the mind of Christ. We must become what we receive in the holy Eucharist. All that we suffer must be seen as united to Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. Christianity is about as far from being a philosophical system or ideology as something could be. It is Divine Life and Love.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:01:48 FrDavid Abernethy: page 374
 
00:02:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Susanna
 
00:02:15 FrDavid Abernethy: Facebook friend :-0
 
00:02:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Facebook friend :-0" with ☺️
 
00:02:49 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
00:02:57 FrDavid Abernethy: You’re very welcome
 
00:41:30 John: Would making asceticism an end in itself a type of obeying the letter of
the law, rather than the spirit?
 
00:42:31 Susanna Joy: This is very helpful advice for me right niw, as I have been staying at my friend's spiritual community, and being so distressed at members'  contentiousness...wondering what to do and stay cenetered/bring a spirit if peace
 
00:42:50 Susanna Joy: *spirit of peace
 
00:46:15 Susanna Joy: Yes...exactly. .. Love must return to its Source in order to flow ever onward...
Remembering to turn to Christ in these moments
 
00:49:02 TFredman: (My name is Tracey) The hardest Lent I ever had was when my spiritual director suggested a different type of fast - a fast from just what we are talking about. Taking his counsel to heart, I decided that a contentious coworker would not disturb my peace and I would love her - oh yes, she was my Lenten project. It was incredibly difficult. She did her best to destroy me and to talk about me to others and to in effect destroy our "team" during the most difficult season of our work. I suffered through that Lent and beyond more than I can express. But through it all, I was at peace and grace followed.
 
00:51:52 John: At a retreat in June, I was given a Holy Card with a prayer of St. Charles de Foucauld: An Act of Abandonment: "Father, I abandon myself into Your hands. Do with me what you will. Whatever You may do, I thank you. I am ready for all, I accept all. Let only your will be done in me, and in all Your creatures - I wish no more than this, O Lord. Into Your hands I commend my soul; I offer it to Thee with all the love of my heart, for I love you, Lord, and so need to give myself, to surrender myself into Your hands, without reserve, and with boundless confidence. For You are my Father. Amen.
 
00:52:43 carol nypaver: 🙏🏼
 
00:53:22 Alexandra K: Amen..
 
00:55:59 Anthony: I agree with the feeling of loss. There's an interesting verse in Sirach or Wisdom,  I think, "Let not th eunuch say 'I am not fruitful.'" It's a verse pointing to Abraham 's hope in an impossibile situation.
 
00:57:09 Louise: A woman I know ask the Beloved to teach her unconditional love. After few months, her 30-year husband announced her that he was leaving for a younger woman. What an opportunity to react with unconditional love!
 
00:59:00 Louise: ''asked''
 
01:05:36 carol nypaver: Is it important to discern whether it is atonement for sin or a test?
 
01:10:01 John: These experiences of painful, crushing long-suffering remind me of what Cardinal Merry del Val prayed for in his Litany of Humility: http://catholictradition.org/Litanies/litany55.htm
 
01:10:36 Anthony: The Gospel insinuates some Jews called St Mary a very bad name.  That must have been hard to bear.
 
01:12:16 Alexandra K: And during this past year of contentiousness i have been praying The cardinal s litany of humility.     Watch out you ask for!
 
01:14:08 Sheila Applegate: Do we really want "thy will to be done" because does that not mean he wants us humbled..and like Him. We don't, mostly.
 
01:18:13 Sheila Applegate: Ouch.
 
01:18:25 maureencunningham: Thank You
 
01:19:01 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾
 
01:19:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:19:03 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:09 sue and mark: good night thank you
 
01:19:14 Alexandra K: Ty
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part III

Being thrown off balance! The experience of vertigo! This is what comes to mind when considering the writings from the Evergetinos this evening. Once again, the gospel is put before us in an unvarnished fashion. It is as if through the unclouded vision of the fathers suddenly the truth of the gospel appears before us and all of its starkness. We are to love and to become love. It is this reality that must shape and form our interaction with every person we encounter. It suggests a kind of vulnerability where we seemingly leave ourselves exposed to the world around us and its malice. So easily does the Evil One whisper in our ears, “If you give yourself in such a way, you will undoubtedly find yourself impoverished.” “Would God really ask such a thing from you?”  Such thinking makes us very calculating about our lives. We are comfortable with boundaries and sometimes the religious boundaries, the walls that we put up around ourselves in the name of God are the highest and thickest of them all. 
Yet, we always have before us Christ crucified - arms outstretched and hanging naked upon the cross. He is mocked in the same way that our own hearts mock the truth when we shrink away from its demands in horror. To “think” about unconditional love always allows us to remain one step removed. If we keep the faith notional, we do not have to live it. The fathers, however, allow us no such luxury. Nor did they have confidence in their own virtue or rectitude. Humility understands one thing – all is Grace. This will forever compel us to look upon others with the generosity of God and ourselves as the recipients of incalculable and unmerited mercy.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:10 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com
 
00:24:14 LauraLeigh: Not sure how to do this in real life. Last week, I pitched a battle at work, and won. And it was no petty matter. I think it takes a lot of wisdom, a lot of discernment, to do this well. Me, I was lucky.
 
00:26:37 LauraLeigh: Thankfully, it wasn't about the Faith.
 
00:28:13 Louise: We lost you Fr.
 
00:28:14 carol nypaver: Yes
 
00:30:02 Eric Ewanco: “Here the parallel holds good—it is as absurd to argue men, as to torture them, into believing.”
 
Newman, John Henry, Sermon III, The Usurpations Of Reason, Preached December 11, 1831. MATT. 11:19, Sermons, Chiefly On the Theory of Religious Belief, Preached Before the University of Oxford (London: Francis & John Rivington, 1844), p. 48
 
00:52:02 Anthony: I do have a concern.  I don't want to be a sucker and I resent having been taken for a sucker. That helps drive my engaging religious  and cultural discussions and it's why I'm careful in what charitable works I agree to do.
 
01:00:33 Maureen Cunningham: What about the  Book  The Way of the Pilgrim  Hw would say the Jesus Prayer in silence
 
01:03:12 Paul Fifer: I see people walk in for help with food, gas, or money quite regularly.  Many I know for a fact are gaming the system and it really gets to me at times.   I have this quote written down from Mother Theresa to reflect on for those times. “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.”
 
01:20:19 LauraLeigh: I love this message, but in the moment, I forget them.
 
01:23:41 John: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part II

If I were to give a title to this evening’s session, it would be “What is the place of the Christian in a post-Christian culture? Even better, “What is the place of the Christian in an age of nihilism? When we begin to consider our conduct in relationship to others, how we are to conform ourselves not simply to a law or teaching but to Christ himself, we are confronted with something quite radical. We are to meet insults, hatred, misunderstandings and aggression with humility.  Love is always meant to trump the other things that we hold on to with a firm grip; our own judgment, our own will, our own opinion and the satisfaction of our own desires above the needs of others. 
What we are presented with in the teachings of the fathers is rooted in the capacity of the soul for true discernment. The one who is pure of heart is able to see things as God sees them and so see their true value. Therefore, the fathers tell us that in this world we should take the place of a “stranger”; that is, not seeking to have the first word or seeking to have any desire at all except the desire for God and that which draws us toward Him. We are to bend like a reed in the wind when it comes to our relationships with other people. What value does our personal opinion have or the acceptance of some truth that we speak that is greater than love? To stand up against the winds is to court danger; it is to give rise to quarrels and cause trouble.
If we want to live with others, we are not to desire to give them orders, but like Christ we are to become an example of obedience. Even as we read the fathers, we must keep Christ before eyes for he is the standard. In the end, it was His actions that revealed a perfect obedience; an obedience rooted in love and willing to empty itself and take on the form of a servant. We are to strive for this alone – that our love would be cruciform.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 370 no. 6
 
00:26:54 Louise: Could we say that, when meeting someone, shaking hands indicates a willingness to welcome the other, to allow a certain form of intimacy and to trust that the other is clean (especially 100 years and more ago when hygiene was questionable)?
 
00:49:03 Maureen Cunningham: Why is  Letting Go soooooo Hard
 
00:54:55 Ren Witter: I love this story sooo much
 
00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: They just needed Twitter.
 
00:55:37 Patrick: 😄
 
01:06:38 Louise: We have to be ready for ridicule, persecution and even martyrdom.
 
01:12:35 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You,
 
01:13:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Powerful stuff!
 
01:13:29 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:31 Alexandra K: Thank you Fr
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part I

“In the deserts of the heart Let the healing fountain start.”
W.H. Auden (1907-1973) 
“The road of cleansing goes through that desert. It shall be named the way of holiness.”
Isaiah 35.8 (LXX)
It has been said that all true renewal within the life of the church comes through the desert fathers, or rather through the embrace of their wisdom. For it is not a worldly wisdom but the wisdom of the gospel, the wisdom of the kingdom that they set before us; not in an abstract fashion but through lived experience. 
The desert fathers looked deep within; precisely where Christ directs us to search for the kingdom. It’s not an easy thing to do; to look deep within oneself. Often what begins to emerge can seem ugly and repulsive to us. Sin has not left us untouched. We know its darkness, its suffering, and how it shapes the way we view ourselves, the world, and others. 
However, this inward gaze and the ascetic life aids us in seeing with a greater clarity not only our sin but the image of something beautiful beyond imagination; the soul made in the image and likeness of God, transformed and transfigured by his grace. Even in the midst of the struggle, the beauty of God‘s mercy and grace begins to manifest itself, and to reshape the human heart. We begin to understand that the perfection to which we are called is not moral perfection; nor is it the perfection of our natural virtues. It is to share in the very life of God. Christ strength is to become our strength. His virtue is to become our virtue. 
It has been said the Christ is the most beautiful of all human beings. In him, we see what we shall be through the grace of God. All that is dark in us, all that becomes an impediment to our ability to love gradually begins to fade away. We no longer cling to the demands of our own will or the pettiness of our ego. We begin to see that in Christ we have all and lack nothing. It is in this realization that we become truly free and capable of love. How beautiful!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:20 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367
 
00:13:23 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367
 
00:20:45 John: Kind of reminds me of the Jews who went out to see John the Baptist to ask who he was - though I don't think they were being critical.
 
00:20:59 Ren Witter: For Father David’s favorite comic about Stylites: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=6720341144666823&set=pb.100000730124605.-2207520000.&type=3
 
00:21:39 John: Reacted to "For Father David’s f..." with 😂
 
00:51:35 iPhone (61): What page or book are we on Blessings
 
00:56:07 Rachel: 🤪
 
00:56:35 Rachel: I love that story.
 
00:56:37 Ren Witter: Can I say that to the next person who yells at me? “Imitate the Statue” :-D
 
00:58:46 Rachel: Fun. :/
 
00:59:06 Rachel: Reacted to "Can I say that to ..." with 👍
 
00:59:10 iPhone (61): I think we are suppose become like the statue.
 
01:02:39 Ashley Kaschl: This might be a leap in relation to this analogy with the stone statue but I have been having conversations about Filial Confidence in God. Isaiah 50:7 says, “The Lord God is my help, therefore I am not disgraced; Therefore I have set my face like flint, knowing that I shall not be put to shame.” If the monks in this passage agree to both enter into this life combatting their lower faculties which suggests doing battle against disordered sensibilities, then it also relates to the grace of an inflexible resolve that, no matter what happens to them, all is passing away compared to eternal glory in Christ; they have set their faces like flint against all struggles that may come. I think the goal, then, is to enter into ourselves and do battle so as to become docile and not react in the extremes, to repose ourselves like children in the arms of our Heavenly Father.
 
01:02:49 Rachel: You cant project it on to Christ. The all innocent and Perfect One.
 
01:05:16 Rachel: Reacted to "This might be a le..." with ❤️
 
01:05:33 Ashley Kaschl: Yes! That is what I meant by docile as well. Not a
passivity but one who can be directed or taught as you said 😁🙏
 
01:07:44 Alexandra K: Reacted to "This might be a leap..." with 👍
 
01:08:56 John: A bit ironic that flint produces a spark when struck by steel or something similar. However, docility implies that this spark is not anger, but charity.
 
01:09:08 iPhone (61): Guilty of all these that you mentioned.  I am grateful
 
01:09:15 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl…" with 🔥
 
01:11:16 Alexandra K: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 👍
 
01:12:22 Sheila Applegate: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 🔥
 
01:12:28 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Guilty of all these …" with 💯
 
01:17:06 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 🙏💖
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLI, Part III

The conclusion of hypothesis 41 was as beautiful as it was convicting. The fathers speak of a stability of mind and heart that deepens through the ascetic life and allows us to see the most subtle movements either toward or away from God. This subtlety of perception is unmatched in the spiritual tradition. The ascetic life revealed to the fathers not only sin and its manifestations, but the power of God’s grace to transform our lives in such a way that every impediment is removed that prevents us from loving unconditionally. The ascetical life is not an end in itself. It allows us to “ascend the cross”, the fathers tell us. The purity of heart that is achieved through it, the freedom from the passions, allows us to love in a self-emptying fashion, and to truly abandon ourselves to the will of God. Every illusion is set aside and one gradually comes to see with greater and greater clarity that “all is grace”. It is then that the desire for God compels us in our every word, thought, and action!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:38 Anthony: Perhaps something should be allowed for different characters or temperaments. Maybe this is a reason Westerners have different orders.
 
00:30:05 Louise: Was the Ethiopian a demon or a hallucination?
 
00:43:12 maureencunningham: Longest road is from the head to heart
 
00:50:34 Ernest: So doesn’t it help to have a spiritual director to regularly guide your path.
 
00:54:06 John: There's a book called "Talking Back" by Evagrius which has a variation of mocking evil thoughts: he supplies verses of Scripture against a whole variety of evil thoughts.
 
01:07:53 Ernest: But doesn’t one experience these higher gifts, greater than earthly bread, when one receives Holy Communion…the real presence of Jesus?
 
01:10:52 Louise: In the Sufi mystical tradition, the disciple-to-be had to wash the latrine for 5 years, and only that. Afterward, he could attend the meetings with the Sufi master, where he was mostly bashed, laughed at, lied to, publicly humiliated, etc. while love was produced in his heart. What a way to chose the heart!
 
01:12:44 Paul Grazal: +1
 
01:17:30 Paul Grazal: Amen.  Thank you Father
 
01:18:56 maureencunningham: Beautifully said Thank You.
 
01:19:25 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much Father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLI, Part II

Avoidance: often this can be the fundamental reason that an individual gravitates towards solitude, religious, or otherwise. We do not want to be in the presence of others, because it is there that we stand revealed - not only in their eyes, but in our own. In our interactions with others, we begin to see our dominant passions and the poverty of our sin. Our weak spots, blind spots and hard spots become perfectly evident to us. It is for this reason that the desert fathers counsel spending many years in the common life because it is there that true purification takes place. It is in our day-to-day struggle with the movement of our own thoughts and emotions and interactions with others, that sin is overcome and virtue begins to grow. To flee into solitude, prematurely, and even with the highest spiritual aspirations, promises only danger. It is perilous to enter into deep silence alone. If one falls, there is no one to pick them up. If one is swallowed up by delusion, there is no one to set them aright. How can we repent without having the other as one to whom we can direct our compassion or who reveals our darker side? 
Silence can never be an escape. In fact, silence can only be loved by one who has been freed from every impediment in order to encounter He who is Love and find true respite and peace in Him. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C From Abba Mark
 
00:04:17 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Sandy
 
00:11:11 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C
 
00:15:40 Cindy Moran: Is this like a consecrated virgin?
 
00:26:06 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..."
 
Cindy, I think it is probably different, in that you can continue to live in the world in any way you feel called as a consecrated virgin, but I believe that being a hermit involves deliberately leaving the world to live apart, yet following the monastic rule. Maybe Father can add or correct this.
 
00:27:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you!
 
00:27:39 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..."
 
Your diocesan office will probably have someone who can answer questions about both.
 
00:27:50 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Thank you!" with 👍
 
00:31:41 Rachel: This reminds me of Saint Paul stating that he doesn't even judge himself. Years ago this statement left me wondering at what he meant and have now come to believe that what Cassian is saying is the same thing that Saint Paul was saying. He had a thorn in the flesh, knew a man taken up to the third Heaven yet does not even judge himself. Not even stopping to examen himself except to boast in his weakness in order to glorify God's great mercy.
 
00:32:15 LauraLeigh: Seems like, whether in community or as a hermit, one needs to be prepared to be a "plucky fighter"!
 
00:32:22 Eric Ewanco: Can you relate these eremitic hazards to ordinary laymen who live involuntarily alone but in the world? Obviously some hazards apply, but some may not. Can you comment?
 
00:32:39 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Can you relate these..." with 👍
 
00:32:55 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Can you relate these..."
 
This is my question too.
 
00:38:05 LauraLeigh: The thing is, though, about living alone in the world, you know very well that there is no one there to catch you when you fall. Everything
 
00:45:47 Anthony: I suggest that maybe women have more living examples of a secular spiritual life since widows with their maturity and their link to other widows are more common than widowers
 
00:45:51 Anthony: Grand torino
 
00:46:25 Eric Ewanco: Oh that's where that came from! I've used that. :-)
 
00:52:47 LauraLeigh: Thank you for not running off to a cabin in the woods, Father.
 
00:53:26 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with 👆
 
00:54:12 Anthony: Sometimes I think we try too hard to be good Catholics, so hard that we dispel that peace we might otherwise have if we didn't try so hard , since trying too hard can focus us on our turbulent selves. Perhaps it's to have a hobby and cigar and an occasional prayer than making and measuring ourselves against a lot of self imposed religious obligations.
 
00:56:55 Eric Ewanco: With all due respect to Tolkien, I'd rather live under corrupt government than anarchy.
 
00:57:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "Sometimes I think we..." with ❤️
 
00:58:09 Patrick: Reacted to "Sometimes I think ..." with ❤️
 
01:09:39 Anthony: Or by taking obligation to pray and fast because you're going to fight evil......that _can_ lead to obsessive type of behavior for an ostensibly good reason. It's perhaps like a modern day "Children's Crusade."
 
01:12:34 John: Yesterday's Gueranger article talks about exterior-only asceticism: "The Jewish casuists were not slow in drawing up their famous formula, that all moral goodness was guaranteed to him that had received circumcision! St. Paul, later on, told them how such a principle was a stumbling-block to the Gentiles, leading them to blaspheme the name of God. According to the moral theology of these Hebrew doctors, conscience meant only what the tribunal of public justice issued as its decisions: the obligations of the interior tribunal of a man’s conscience were to be restricted to the rules followed by the assize-courts. The result of such teaching soon showed itself: the only thing people need care for was what was seen by men; if the fault were not one that human eyes could judge of, you were not to trouble about it."
 
01:17:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:18:22 sue and mark: Thank you
 
01:18:32 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part VII and Hypothesis XLI, Part I

In the advertisement for and description of this evening’s group, I wrote: “How does one deal with feelings of desolation in regards to one’s vocation, resentment towards others, being treated with envy or finding one’s circumstances to be a source of temptation? In the face of the many trials brought upon us by the evil one, great perseverance is needed and freedom from self will.”  This description, however, does not capture the depth of the wisdom that we were exposed to this evening. All of our asceticism, all the ways that we seek to remove the impediment of our passions, all the ways that we seek to remain focused upon the spiritual battle that lies within the heart has one end: to bring us to the place where we can enter into the Paschal Mystery in union with Christ. Not one of us should seek to leave the training, ground of the spiritual life prematurely or to choose to rest before God grants it. For it is precisely in this battle that all that remains an impediment to our ascending the cross with Christ is removed. Abba Isaiah, in the richest and most beautiful interpretation of the Passion, unpacks for us the meaning of every experience of our Lord; not that we might reflect upon it in an abstract fashion, but that we would take hold of His experiences as our own. We engage in the ascetical life not to reach the kind of moral perfection or emotional Nirvana but rather that we might reach the place where we can ascend the Cross with Christ. Once we are delivered from all of these things, we pass through our own Passion Week and enter into another, new age, thinking new and incorrupt thoughts. We are reminded of St. Paul’s words, “set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you’re dead.“ We leave our sins behind and find mercy together with those who are worthy of Him!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 353 paragraph 4
 
00:11:16 FrDavid Abernethy: And Elder said: “Just as a tree . . . .
 
00:32:56 Anthony: I suggest that the various revolutions, including the American,  were designed to uproot a stable society.  The mass migrations of the late 1800s to 1900s were caused by Socialist governments displacing their peasants. This uprooted stability and is a root of our mental and moral afflictions today.
 
00:36:36 Anthony: The honest peasant is an essential character for Solzhenitsyn.
 
00:37:05 Louise: Focus
 
00:37:07 Anthony: Vanishing point
 
00:37:40 Zoom user: True North
 
00:37:54 Carol: touchstone
 
00:40:59 Anthony: The reformation was a symptom of society failing in its "monastic " vocation.
 
00:48:48 Louise: Sartre
 
00:50:38 Louise: Ste-Thérèse-de-Lisieux forced herself to hang out with the most annoying nun in the convent in order to confront her impatience and find her deeper loving kindness.
 
01:19:37 Louise: Thank you, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:19:43 sheri: Thank you.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part VI

Stability of mind and heart: such are the characteristics of those who live the ascetic life. The mystery of the human person is such that we must suspend judgment of others as well as judgment of ourselves. 
On a psychological level, things are multi- determined. In other words, many things coalesce to form our thoughts and actions. Therefore, we must be very cautious in the spiritual life not to act quickly when tempted to leave our state of life or vocation. The change of mere externals does not bring healing. The passions that often drive us in the way that we view circumstances and others are only healed through persevering through many trials. 
We are ever so changeable. This is our great struggle and vulnerability, but it is also what allows us to repent. When we see our own sin or when we come to recognize the truth or when an illusion is revealed, we can turn toward God and cling to him and the healing he alone offers. “The Lord is an eternal rock”, the Scriptures tell us. Therefore, we must rest upon him. In him alone do we begin to experience an invincible peace and an unshakable hope.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:56 FrDavid Abernethy: page 351 para 11
 
00:33:42 Ambrose Little, OP: There are those who say that you are “lukewarm” if you don’t get upset about bad stuff happening in the world.
 
00:44:33 David Fraley: Reacted to "There are those who …" with 👍
 
00:47:50 Zoom user: Whoa
 
00:57:08 John Ingram: I've seen some of the psychological evaluation questions that are asked of candidates for the priesthood. They are truly bizarre and disturbing - and disconcerting.
 
00:58:40 Louise: Even in psychology departments, they do NOT use psychological evaluation for selecting PhD candidates. They are selected and evaluated only on grades.
 
00:58:48 Denise T.: This monk remained silent amidst the other monks' envy. Is it ever right to speak up for yourself and explain what you are doing? Or is it always better to remain silent when confronted with the envy of others.
 
01:04:27 Rachel: Yep
 
01:10:57 Denise T.: Thank you, Father. That is very helpful.
 
01:15:10 Rachel: Not leaving willie nilly..going to Mas. God bless!
 
01:15:17 Rachel: Mass
 
01:16:40 Louise: Thanks, Father!
 
01:16:53 Patrick Nugent, ObSB: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:27 David Fraley: This has been a good session and a lot to think about. Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part V

We are truly being nourished on solid food in reading the fathers. They present us not simply with a moralistic or legalistic view of sin and its impact upon our lives in the lives of others. We are to hold the peace of another’s heart as precious as we do our own. And when we are stirred to anger or hatred because we have been maligned and mistreated, we must not give way to hatred. Rather, we must suspend judgment and recognize that others are first and foremost tempted to sin as we are. We can hate the sin and the evil and in fact we should do so. But we must never lose sight of the dignity and identity of others or our own identity. 
When we get angry, we can lose our stillness and peace of mind and heart. These things are often hard won and so we must be careful not to cast them off easily. Nor should we cast off brotherly love lightly. We often can treat others with harshness and lack of generosity - never realizing that we place our souls and theirs’ in jeopardy. Again, I’m not speaking simply in moralistic terms. If we goad others to anger, we can make them lose hope in the providence and love of God. If we treat their vulnerability, not with generosity and support but abuse it, then we sin against charity - we sin against Christ. 
We must learn to slow things down internally; for we do not see all ends; even when we think we see things clearly. Our goal should be to live in divine love and help this divine love be maintained in our relationships with each other. In fulfilling, the commandment to love, we are offered and promised everything - to be sons and daughters of God. In light of this, whatever lengths we go to guard our minds and our hearts from anger is worth it.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 348 letter G
 
00:22:19 Adam Paige: I just received an icon today of the Synaxis of the Bodiless Hosts
 
00:29:53 Rory: ?is divine providence the stillness among the passions of life?
 
00:37:05 Rory: ?is God revealing the truth in our silence when anger is expressed from another?
 
00:39:57 Louise: Father, what would you say about people who sue here and there to deal with their anger?
 
00:48:25 John Ingram: This reminds me of the Roman judges who flew off the handle, into a rage immediately upon hearing the testimony of the Christians they were sentencing.
 
01:03:55 David Fraley: I’m sorry I’m so late. I forgot today is Monday.
 
01:04:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I’m sorry I’m so lat..." with ➕
 
01:07:27 Rory: when someone trespasses another, 
is this God's way of showing us the clarity through peace and hope.
 
01:09:52 Rory: ?is anger really fear? 
and wouldn't Divine Love 
quell that fear
 
01:17:44 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:18:08 Louise: Thanks you, Father.
 
01:18:09 Helena Babington Guiles: Thank you Father David. Very helpful. 🙏🏼🤍
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part IV

Once again, we are presented with a kind of fickleness that can plague the human heart. We can be ever so changeable. This includes how we look upon even our greatest commitments. The moment something becomes a trial for us or where we are asked to endure something that is reprehensible, or that causes us some suffering, we will want to change the external circumstances of our life. 
However, the fathers in their writing show us how the evil one constantly seeks to magnify such experiences to the point that they breakdown our commitment to our particular vocation or vows. The one who has lived the common life for years can have the seed implanted in his heart that he would be happier or holier as an anchorite. Or one who is old of age might be tempted into thinking that his life no longer has value, and that he can no longer fulfill the rule in the way that he did as a young man. He begins to think about retiring from the religious life all together. Such thinking is pervasive and enters into every vocation. 
Having said this, however, we also have to be aware of the fact that we can face obstacles in our environment, such as the envy of others that becomes destructive or immorality. In these circumstances, it may be necessary to change one’s environment.  We need to recognize that we are responsible for the spiritual well-being and fidelity of others. If we treat others without love, without respect, then we can put their vocation and their spiritual life in jeopardy. This is a sober reminder of the solidarity that exist between us. The only way that we are allowed to treat another person is to love them.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hello Navy Dave!!!
 
00:03:26 David Fraley: I love those photos of you and your mom! Neither of you have changed!
 
00:03:42 FrDavid Abernethy: I look older than she does
 
00:04:24 David Fraley: Mrs Abernethy, you and I met at the Oratory a few years ago.
 
00:47:37 Ren Witter: Something about all these examples makes me really sad, and I think it has something to do with how they show that our words and actions can have such a profound on the ability of another to resist temptation. In all these examples, the temptations would have little weight if the elder in question was treated in such a way that he was assured of the affection and support of his fellow, younger monks.
 
00:48:08 Ren Witter: I just imagine how the way we treat others makes them more or less susceptible
 
00:51:00 David Fraley: Reacted to "I just imagine how t…" with 👍
 
00:54:46 Ren Witter: I am thinking, and I don’t think this is an overstatement, that when we treat others in a way that says “you are worthless,” “you are not worth my time,” “you don’t deserve kindness,” “you are a lost cause,” and many other such things, that we are not just making them more susceptible to the temptations of the demons, but are in fact becoming the tempting demon ourselves. We are already doing the demons’ job for them.
 
00:58:14 Anthony: "The Three Musketeers" has a plotline about a woman who left the convent in a bad way, and she brought ruin and misery to several men throughout her life until an avenger caught up with her.  It ties together some themes discussed today.
 
00:59:58 Louise: Sometimes, to be ethical, we have to confront, directly or indirectly, the obvious incompetence and even maliciousness of others. Of course, their hidden demons come out then forcibly. This would not be a sin, right?
 
01:03:07 John Ingram: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
I think St. Francis de Sales talked about how to respond to negative people (heretics, etc.): treat them with honey, not with vinegar.
 
01:05:48 Louise: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
Good point! However, some people even envy you when you treat them with honey, because they do not have honey and they hate you for having honey.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part III

We returned to hypothesis 40 and found ourselves sitting at the feet of Saint Ephrem the Syrian. We are shown with frightening clarity how the evil one works upon our minds and our hearts by making us question the value and the significance of our particular vocation.  We are often tempted to change externals; thinking that when we do so we will find a place that fosters greater sanctity, peace of mind and heart, or offers a greater opportunity for prayer. The evil one constantly seeks to tempt us to this instability in order that we might never put down deep roots - and so also never bear ripe fruit, if any fruit at all. 
The grass always looks greener on the other side. There are always going to be things that seem to be lacking in our life or in our relationships, whether real or perceived, that make us vulnerable to this kind of attack. Therefore, we are counseled to be equally relentless in putting things to the test. We must fast and pray and seek the counsel of others. Likewise, we must never make decisions in moments of desolation. It is not as though the fathers are saying that we can never be called to walk another path. Rather, they are telling us that all of our actions must be guided by prudence; a kind of practical wisdom that arises out of long experience within the inner desert of the heart. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 342 top of the page
 
00:43:21 John Ingram: I'm wondering whether the extreme depravity of the modern world creates a greater temptation to retreat to a more extreme asceticism than, say, a century ago, or even during the times of the Desert Fathers. Thus we're in more danger of being thrown off balance from a balanced approach.
 
00:50:30 Louise: Would  recommend allowing ourselves to experience the void elated to the longing to be with the Beloved, being conscious and tolerating the pain of longing while also being in this world with its joys and pleasures in a contained way.
 
01:07:24 Louise: I think of Job these days. He was thrown into ascetism, losses, and pain, beyond his volition. God tested him via the evil one. At times, I imagine myself in the place of Job in a near future, in the hope to remain faithful and in love with God whatever happens, even I do not understand why this is occurring. Maybe Job's trial was a demonstration for us.
 
01:11:02 Adam Paige: It’s the feast of Job this week actually
 
01:14:05 Melissa Kummerow: Wish I had been able to tune in earlier but everything that's been talked about so far has been very timely to my own life right now. Seems to be par for the course with your groups, Father David lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part II

Stability of place leads to and protects internal emotional and spiritual stability. One must not be tempted to change one’s external environment; thinking that somehow another place holds greater promise for producing virtue within our hearts. Such thoughts must be tested over the course of many years and placed before one’s spiritual elder for scrutiny. Often the evil one will seek to draw us along another path because we are being afflicted or frustrated or our self-esteem is being diminished in some fashion. We must keep our focus upon Christ in the midst of this battle. He alone is the wholly innocent One. He did not flee the Cross that was set before him and ultimately gave his assent to the Father’s will. Our faith and hope in God and what he can bring about by his providence and grace must be our guiding light.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:00 FrDavid Abernethy: page 336, Letter C
 
00:48:34 Ashley Kaschl: What you said about scripture where Jesus asks “do you want to be well?” reminded me of a part of the Surrender Novena to the Sacred Heart: “In pain you pray for me to act, but that I act in the way you want. You do not turn to me, instead, you want me to adapt to your ideas. You are not sick people who ask the doctor to cure you, but rather sick people who tell the doctor how to.”
 
00:52:55 Louise: Could it be that Theodora fully accepted this ordeal because she had previously deceived the monks of the monastery in believing that she was a man? Thus, this was a just punishment by God, which she embraced.
 
00:55:59 Louise: I see.
 
01:02:11 John Ingram: Not sure where this poem came from, but on the subject of spiritual pride, here is one stanza:
 
01:03:47 John Ingram: "And when the prayer unto my lips doth rise/"Let me but offer Thee some glorious sacrifice/Let me accomplish some great work for Thee!"/Subdue it, Lord, let my petition be Make me but useful in this world of Thine/In ways according to Thy Will, not mine."
 
01:05:00 Louise: Father, would you see anorexia as an ego-based asceticism driven by diabolical obsession?
 
01:05:30 John Ingram: No idea!
 
01:07:05 Paul Fifer: Found the poem…. Here is a link:  https://www.google.com/books/edition/Irish_Monthly/_W43AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22And+when+the+prayer+unto+my+lips+doth+rise/%22Let+me+but+offer+Thee+some+glorious+sacrifice/Let+me+accomplish+some+great+work+for+Thee!%22/Subdue+it,+Lord,+let+my+petition+be+Make+me+but+useful+in+this+world+of+Thine/In+ways+according+to+Thy+Will,+not+mine.%22&pg=PA509&printsec=frontcover
 
01:07:09 John Ingram: Follow-up to other stanza: first stanza is: "Let me not die before I've done for Thee/my earthly work, whatever it may be./ Call me not hence with mission unfulfilled/ let me not leave my space of ground untilled."
 
01:07:51 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:09:38 David Fraley: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:14:39 Sandy Nelson: A first time listener this evening . . where can I get a copy of the Evergetinos?
 
01:15:08 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A first time listene…" with ❤️
 
01:15:23 Sandy Nelson: Thank you
 
01:16:58 sue and mark: Thank you Father.  God bless everyone.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part I

We rarely think of the importance of stability; not only in our external environment, but the stability of thought and emotion. It is precisely this that is addressed in Hypothesis 40. One can easily be tempted, with good reason, for a multitude of reasons, to move to another place, where one can find greater tranquility and peace in the spiritual life. Yet, such thoughts are often the work of the evil one. Wherever we go, we take our selves with us, including our passions. 
And so, we receive multiple stories and examples of monks and saints who were put to the test in this regard.  We can allow ourselves with great ease to begin to daydream; to imagine a kind of life that will bring peace and happiness to us or that would be pleasing to God. The danger is that we often are motivated by our personal judgment and sensibilities or by the actions of the evil one. 
We must understand that in this world we know no peace, except for that which is found in Christ. While we are in this world, we are engaged in constant spiritual warfare and should expect nothing less. In fact, we were told that we must become like the cherubim - “all eyes.”  We must constantly watch for the subtle ways that the evil one seeks to draw us away from the path of obedience and humility.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 330 Letter E
 
00:54:48 Erick chastain: What hypothesis/ book are we on?
 
00:55:21 carol nypaver: P.334
 
00:55:26 Eric Ewanco: XL.A.2
 
00:55:59 Erick chastain: Reacted to "P.334" with 👍
 
00:56:28 carol nypaver: Please say book name again?
 
00:56:52 John Ingram: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Repentance-Purity-Pope-Shenouda/dp/0881415324?ref_=nav_ya_signin
 
00:56:59 Cindy Moran: Great idea.
 
00:57:55 Sean: Reacted to "Great idea. " with 👍
 
01:03:37 Sean: Along this line, I have friends who have considered converting to
Orthodoxy. Can you speak to pursuing holiness in our Church and not leaving in this context? Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:06:26 Erick chastain: Pope Francis said Sunday that evangelization doesn't get done by keyboard warriors
 
01:08:17 John Ingram: I think Our Lord told us that in these times, charity would grow cold - which is exactly what is happening with all these internal disputes in the Church.
 
01:17:31 Eric Ewanco: “One does not proclaim the Gospel standing still, locked in an office, at one’s desk or at one’s computer, arguing like ‘keyboard warriors’ and replacing the creativity of proclamation with copy-and-paste ideas taken from here and there. The Gospel is proclaimed by moving, by walking, by going.” — Pope Francis, General Audience, Wednesday, 12 April 2023
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: 🙏
 
01:27:58 sue and mark: God Bless everyone.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIX, Part I

Tonight, our 100th Episode of the study of the The Evergetinos, we began reading Hypothesis 39.  The subject matter is manifold. We are not to trust or be overly confident in ourselves, our own judgment or our spiritual strength. Rather, we are to trust first and foremost in the grace of God and also the intercession of our spiritual father. Every good that we accomplish takes place because of God’s mercy; this includes the prayers, and the intercession of one’s elder. 
We are presented with a multitude of stories of individuals who were protected, strengthened, or guided by the prayers of their spiritual fathers. However, we are not to see this as  magic; nor are we to see it as something that would protect us from hardship, or the crosses we may be called to carry. Rather what is emphasized for us is the radical solidarity that exists among us as men and women of faith. We do not travel the road through this world in isolation. Rather, we are under the care of others or we are responsible for on another’s well-being. 
As so many times before, such stories emphasize for us the need for humility. We have to let go of the illusion of power. In fact, we cannot present the gospel from a standpoint of power, at least not as it is seen and understood in the world. The love that we bear witness to is obedient and self-emptying. The truth and the wisdom that we speak is that of the kingdom. Are these the realities the guide us in our life?  Are our sensibilities any different from those who do not have faith?
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 322
 
00:10:23 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis XXXIX
 
00:29:03 Rachel : This happens when we in our ascetic efforts in union with Christ, try to divest ourselves of self and the world.
 
00:31:11 Anthony: I just finished reading St. Bonaventure's life of St. Francis.  It made the real power of intercession more real to me. St. Francis and his friars are very much in the mold of these older Fathers.  It shows me the real catholicity of the Faith.
 
00:40:16 carol nypaver: What would you recommend for a young man who feels drawn to the priesthood in this day/age?
 
00:48:57 David Fraley: Reacted to "What would you recom…" with 👍
 
01:09:04 Anthony: Modern practical question: Does this speak to Concealed Carry of Firearms, especially now when brigandage is more common than in past decades?
 
01:14:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Be inspired by the circumcellions! ;)
 
01:15:55 Paul Fifer: “He said to them, “But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.”  Luke 22:27
 
01:17:07 Rodrigo Castillo: Ambrose:  Donatists in North Africa in St. Augustine’s time.
 
01:20:52 Paul Fifer: The verse before that… “He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?” “No, nothing,” they replied.”
 
01:22:13 Ambrose Little, OP: NAB commentary at end of that passage: “It is enough!: the farewell discourse ends abruptly with these words of Jesus spoken to the disciples when they take literally what was intended as figurative language about being prepared to face the world’s hostility.”
 
01:26:07 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVIII

As we move more deeply into the first volume of the Evergetinos - reading hypothesis 38 - we find ourselves also being drawn more deeply into the mystery of humility and obedience. The wisdom of God, revealed in our Lord through his incarnation and through the Paschal mystery, shows us the vulnerability of divine love and humility. For the love of us Christ empties himself, becomes a slave and obedient unto death on the cross. It is upon him that we must fix our gaze if we are not to be drawn into the illusions of pride. 
Religious people are not above having their own delusions; including and especially the delusion of holiness. We hold on to the demands of our ego. Pride rules our will.  Thus, we were given multiple stories this evening of God in his providence guiding souls along a path He desires and presenting them with circumstances that unexpectedly revealed to them these greater truths. There is so much of us that is prideful that we are often blind to the humble ways that God comes to us and reject those through whom He speaks to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 314 letter C
 
00:23:57 Anthony: Is this the concept of "doing Purgatory" now so you don't have to go to Purgatory later?
 
00:39:57 Anthony: On preaching the gospel, among "Evangelicals," there is an emphasis of calling someone to recognize their sin and "accept Christ."  That doesn't seem to be the Catholic tradition, is it?  In the Bible it seems only prophets did that and we are not prophets.
 
00:47:24 Eric Ewanco: think you missed a paragraph?
 
01:13:16 Anthony: This so goes against modern education.  The intellect is separated from morals and we are taught to set ourselves up as judges
 
01:17:04 Anthony: "you have many teachers but not many fathers"
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVII

How does one approach something such as grumbling and murmuring against others, or complaining about what our judgment and sensibilities react to negatively in our lives? How is it that we suspend that judgment? Beyond this, how is it that we let it go all together and allow ourselves to be drawn along in the darkness of faith; where God alone illuminates the path before us to draw us into the truth and the love of the kingdom? 
 
The short answer to all of these questions is: through experience. Only God can reveal to the human heart that has the faith, perhaps only the size of a mustard seed, the depths of His mind and His truth. The greatest miracle, if you will, is to move the mountain of our ego and self-esteem. Our passions make it so difficult to keep our focus solely upon God, upon his love, and upon the truth that is being revealed to us. 
 
These stories are not about disciples being slavishly obedient to their masters no matter what the circumstances. In fact, the stories given to us tonight were how novices and disciples, who were pure of heart, were able to see the truth with clarity and bring about the conversion of their Elders who had lost their way. The stories are presented to us in order that we would not be tempted into condescension. We must understand that God can reprove us and correct us in the most unexpected of ways. What these hypotheses (36 & 37) reveal to us is the preeminence of humility and love. Age, experience or depth of discipline are no guarantee that we will see the truth or embrace it. May God have mercy and illuminate our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 309
 
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: On Grumbling :-)
 
00:33:19 Eric Ewanco: In terms of grumbling, I was listening today to a podcast on joy and the speaker pointed out that the early Christians did not even complain about Nero (who took Christians, covered them with tar, and lit them to shed light on his parties), but kept their focus on God and their own faith, and cultivating joy in the midst of persecution. A good lesson for us today in the hostile environment we live in where Christians tend to get distracted by their grumbling over the circumstances.
 
00:48:21 Eric Ewanco: Doesn't this just contradict everything we've heard previously about the value and importance of unalloyed obedience?
 
01:16:26 Anthony: "Father David, Build My Church, which you can see is in ruins"?
 
01:19:56 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like the habit of humility teaches us to see more clearly. Humility as “true self knowledge,” but with that practice of patience with yourself and with others, not jumping to conclusions and avoiding rashly adopting opinions of others. You give yourself time and suppress the passions that can interfere with being open to seeing things as they really are. So that practice of humble obedience is at least in part what helps us to see more clearly when it might be right to not obey—or at least not obey in particulars in order to be obedient in a a deeper way, as with that disciple tonight.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part II and Hypothesis XXXVI

In these hypotheses, we have been reflecting upon the practice of asceticism, especially in light of the relationship between an Elder and his disciple; that is, in relationship to obedience. We are shown in these stories the ABC’s of the ascetic life and in particular that of the virtue of obedience. 
 
What does it mean to let go of private judgment? What does it mean to set aside one’s will even in small things in our day-to-day life? How do we train the mind and the heart in this virtue; so that when we are asked to pick up our cross or when we are reduced to raw endurance and cannot see the road ahead of us, we are able to respond in love?  We are shown in the stories that one must begin small. It is in letting go of our sensitivities in the small things, and allowing love to trump everything that this virtue takes root. It means being more attentive to the “other”, to what is asked of us and what people need, than to holding on to what we want, or what seems right or convenient to us. 
 
There is part of us that shrinks back in a spirit of objection to what is being taught here. It seems unnatural to us. But what is really being asked of us or rather where we are being led to embrace is the supernatural. What we are being guided to is the perfect love and self emptying obedience that we see in Christ. We should have a similar desire to have obedience to God’s will as our very food.  We must see it as something that sustains and nourishes us mystically. 
 
Not fulfilling the will of God or choosing the path of sin should become something that is abhorrent to us. Such lessons can be learned only with humility. Beyond this, we are shown the incredible responsibility of those who are elders. Their actions, their requests and demands of their disciples must be rooted in the desire for their salvation, and for their good. They will be held accountable as shepherds.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:17 David Fraley: Hello Mrs Abernethy!
 
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 305
 
00:08:28 David Fraley: Hi Fr David!
 
00:08:35 FrDavid Abernethy: Hi Dave!!
 
00:14:32 Debra: Step 11...on talkativeness....was really convicting
 
00:14:51 FrDavid Abernethy: yes it was!!
 
00:15:10 Debra: Ooops...wrong meeting LOL
 
00:25:19 Rachel: Maybe he wanted to see if his disciple was stuoid.
 
00:25:37 Rachel: stupid. Sorry. I should not joke.
 
00:28:57 iPhone: Reacted to "Maybe he wanted to s…" with ❤️
 
00:29:19 Rachel: Yes, I doubt he was stupid nor did the elder think that.
 
00:30:07 Rachel: I wonder though, what would be all of our reactions to this reality in our everyday lives?
 
00:52:38 Anthony Rago: This has got to be specific to novices.  Saints (Elizabeth of Hungary?) are praised for charity against the wishes of the head of household
 
00:55:36 Anthony Rago: But if these people can't use discretion, they also can fall into legalism - oops I don't have permission, I can't act on my own.
 
00:58:32 Anthony Rago: The religious life then is horribly dangerous.
 
01:01:01 Anthony Rago: That indicates then that people cannot abandon their discretion, they have to withhold some obedience, so they can  judge the situation, whether it is healthy or crazy - or just not for them.
 
01:05:15 Anthony Rago: Yes, I've seen situations both of people in religious life and married life that were just psychologically off.
 
01:05:25 Ambrose Little, OP: He also says submit to each other.
 
01:08:30 Debra: I always suggest Chrysogonus
 
01:09:09 Debra: for a baby's name
He could just be called Chrys
 
01:18:36 Rachel: Thank you all, Thank you Father
 
01:19:08 Rachel: :) lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part I

Obedience!  The root of the word is to hear or to listen. What emerges in reading the fathers is that our capacity to hear the word of God is rooted in our willingness to set aside our own willfulness, ego, and our private judgment. We often become obstinate and entrenched in our own view of things in such a way that we are no longer able to hear the advice or counsel of others. We are shown in this evening’s text that sometimes we must be left to our own devices to experience the poverty of our choices that are contrary to the will of God and His love. 
What also emerges is that obedience is not rooted in law but love. Obedience is the fruit of a deep relationship with God, and with one’s spiritual elder. An elder must love his disciple, and recognize that he bears responsibility for his salvation and so must give him constant care. The disciple must reciprocate this love and respect. In doing so, he enables the elder to be a true shepherd and not a mere hireling. This mutual obedience elevates the entire church and allows it to make present the humble love of Christ crucified to the world.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:49:18 Anthony Rago: I may have heard that sentiment too
 
00:49:29 Ambrose Little, OP: It’s probably saying that he’s true enough to Scripture and expansive in his guidance to cover such a loss. But it’s just a hypothetical.
 
00:50:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Hyperbole, like when Jesus says to cut off the hand that causes us to sin. Exaggeration to make a point about the quality of his teaching.
 
00:52:01 Anthony Rago: How may we properly revere persons not exactly in communion with Catholics?  I LOVE the works of St. Gregory of Narek - but if Pope Francis had not made him a Doctor of the Church, I would have forced myself to be cautious.  I'd love to go wholehearted into Coptic Orthodox spirituality / theology, but how cautious should we be?
 
01:00:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Echoes what St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the Apostle) says of the faithful’s relationship with their bishop.
 
01:12:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There is an amazing genius in the story-based instruction of the Evergetinos. It really makes ideas stick in a memorable way.
 
01:14:17 Anthony Rago: I'm open to it
 
01:14:19 David Fraley: I’d be interested.
 
01:14:21 carol nypaver: Sure!
 
01:14:29 Paul Fifer: Me too.
 
01:14:54 John & Heather: Would be interested.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIV

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 34. Again we are introduced into the practice of asceticism; in particular, how it is embraced in the spirit of obedience. We were given multiple stories of individuals who, out of love for their elder, respond with an immediacy to their demand or request. In each case we are shown the deep fruit that this bears. 
However, the greater task for us is to look at our lives and to see if we have prepared our hearts to receive the seed of our Lord‘s word as he calls us to the life of holiness. Do we respond with swiftness when called to prayer or with zeal when called to embrace the practice of fasting or urgency when called respond to someone in need or jeopardy? 
What the stories show us is that obedience is based upon a relationship, not law. It is love that makes us run to respond to Christ and to those He has given to us to guide us along the path to Him. If our asceticism or obedience lacks this love, then it is something that is suspect.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:43 B David: hi all 
Ben David here.  sort of new here...
 
00:10:55 FrDavid Abernethy: welcome Ben!
 
00:12:24 David Fraley: Hello Ben!
 
00:12:59 David Fraley: I did. I found a place in West View.
 
00:21:09 Bridget McGinley: St Hesychios in the Philokalia states “ a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in Christ through obedience to His commandments.  Father, if one cannot find an “elder” can one be assured of the graces and gifts of obedience by simply following the commandments?
 
00:24:33 Bridget McGinley: thank you
 
00:33:13 Anthony Rago: This is in stark contrast with the pagans - example the fear in the Adventures of Ulysses, in the trip to Hades, land of the shades.
 
00:35:22 Anthony Rago: The Coptic Hymn to St George names him the conqueror of his tormentors
 
01:14:40 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part IV

Reading the fathers deeply is unsettling. It strikes against every sensibility that we have and calls into question our perception of reality itself. In this sense, their writings are meant to illuminate the gospels for us and allow them to challenge us. So often we become lukewarm simply because things have become familiar and comfortable to us. We lose sight of the fact that in the face of Christ’s teaching individuals tore their garments and repeatedly wanted to put him to his death and eventually did accomplish this. 
What does reading the gospel or the fathers give rise to within our hearts and consciences? The stories about obedience in this hypothesis are startling; we can hardly imagine ourselves enduring such things for a moment, let alone seeing them as something that are a means to freeing us from self-will and from the ego. What is it that we love? What stirs our hearts to their greatest desire? What are we willing to die for? Is Christ our Beloved or merely the construction of our minds and imaginations to make us feel safe in this world?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:29 Paul Fifer: This paragraph sounds a lot like the Russian movie named “The Island”.
 
00:21:58 Anthony Rago: Reminds me of "Ostrov / Island" in which the foolish monk tends the coal furnace for 30 or so years
 
00:22:30 Charbel: A fantastic film, I get some folks together to watch it at the beginning of the Fast every year.
 
00:24:03 carol nypaver: Profound film!  I need to watch it again.
 
00:24:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Much like having small children. 🙂
 
00:25:52 Anthony Rago: Culturally, in Sicily, my family had livestock on the ground floor.  Same with Padre Pio's family.  Living quarters were upstairs.  Maybe the monk lived in a downstairs "barn" and the others lived on the floor(s) above.
 
00:27:54 Deb Dayton: Reacted to "Much like having sma..." with 😂
 
00:28:00 carol nypaver: Very interesting, Anthony.  Thank you for the insight.
 
00:39:16 Charbel: Apologies for ducking out. I'm taking an extra shift at the shelter and may have to step away from time to time as folks come into my office.
 
00:39:22 Joyce and Jim Walsh: Story of the Monk reminds me  of the indignities suffered by St. FAUSTINA as noted in her Diary.
 
00:51:40 Anthony Rago: But if we are in the image of God, I see a tension.  One the one hand, there is the parable of the unworthy servants doing only what is expected of you.  But on the other hand, you are made in the image of God, and I would thing, there is room for some sense of ego and satisfaction.  Not smugness, but joy and satisfaction.
 
00:53:52 iPhone: Amen Father
 
01:04:05 iPhone: Really Powerful Message.
 
01:13:14 Denise T. : This is probably really worldly of me, but if you allow someone to hurt you unjustly or lie about you or anything else that is deliberately inflicted by another without saying anything, will that be good for them. There seems a sense of justice is lost. Not saying anything. 
 
01:20:05 Denise T. : Thank  you, Father.
 
01:20:16 carol nypaver: Do those who inflict the “punishment” on us,  also become more saintly even if their intent is NOT that we become more patient, humble, etc.? Especially if they are not our “elders”? If we become holier for what we endure at their hands, do they also grow in holiness if we endure patiently?
 
01:21:27 Sharon: Thank you

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part III

The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6
 
00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession?  Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition?
 
00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12.
 
00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ?
 
00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm
 
01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful
 
01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired?
 
01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄
 
01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints.  We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young.
 
01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues.
 
01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part II

What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.”  It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us. 
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ. 
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs
 
00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds
 
00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too
 
00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity?
 
00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs.
 
00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day.
 
00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. 
 
But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍
 
00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation.
 
00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this.
 
00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it).
 
01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience?
 
01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXXIII, Part I

To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue. 
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace. 
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J
 
00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end.
 
01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part III

The times reading The Evergetinos I find my mind and heart swimming not in darkness but rather in a light with which I am unfamiliar. For in reading the fathers, everything seems to be turned on its head. The writings are often jarring, but in a similar way to that of the Gospel.  To read deeply is to find one’s heart inflamed. To listen closely is to find something stirred within us that perhaps was once lifeless. The words can be so piercing that they reveal parts of ourselves that we were unaware of or did not know existed. This is what we were shown tonight; and this is what makes every moment of reflecting upon the fathers worth it.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:34 Mark Kelly: Fr. David is speaking of Fr. Lazarus el Antony.
 
00:31:23 Mark Kelly: Fr. Lazarus vide:  https://vimeo.com/9794946
 
00:35:54 Anthony: This section by Isaac is jarring because it appears to conflict w\ith duty to family and community; and it conflicts with the Christian culture ideal which Europeans at least remember from the Middle Ages.  Pope Benedict's catecheses on the saints which built Christendom would be very different if he came from a culture that was dominated by, say, Islam.
 
00:41:01 Bridget McGinley: I am from Philly...… he ended pretty disgraced. I think the Princehood got to his head. That is a big crown to wear. I agree it is contrary to religious life.
 
00:43:13 Anthony: In my opinion, I believe I see this "worldiness" emerge in Europe after the rocky path the Germanic tribes had in full conversion to the Faith.  The Romano-Greeks in the East had similar problems manifested in another way - hence the unflattering term "byzantine".  Each culture needs to fully convert and not flatter themselves.
 
00:43:55 Babington (or Babi): I think it was Saint Therese who wrote “Everything I have and am everything I am is pure gift.”
 
00:44:17 Babington (or Babi): Oops miswrote
 
00:44:35 Babington (or Babi): Everything I have and everything I am is pure gift.
 
00:45:56 iPhone: Principalities ?
 
00:52:17 Mark Kelly: One of the better-known sayings of the desert fathers is,” There are two things to avoid, an easy life and vain glory.”
 
00:53:18 iPhone: principalities and powers
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Monk is from monos = single
 
00:57:24 Anthony: single minded, so I have heard
 
01:13:17 iPhone: Really Excellent !
 
01:15:19 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen
 
01:18:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Reminds me of the style of parables. First of the unfaithful servants. Then like the inverse of the parable of the lost sheep. But in this case, it’s the celebration of Satan and all of Hell when just one “sheep” is lost.
 
01:20:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:59 Babington (or Babi): Good stuff.  Thank you Father. God bless you all. 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part II

We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me. 
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside?  Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!
 
00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!!
 
00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂
 
00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me.
 
00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession.
 
01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
 
01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow?
 
01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay
 
01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God?
 
01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight.
 
01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :)
 
01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father!
 
01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part II and XXXII, Part I

Tonight, in Hypothesis 32we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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Text of chat during the group:
01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted.
 
01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue:  show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it.  We need to find a worthy sacrifice.
 
01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called?
 
01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism.
 
01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow
 
01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks.  I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part I

How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly.  It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world? 
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed
 
00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin
 
00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me.
 
00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle.  Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church.
 
00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers!
 
00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God.
 
00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring
 
01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful!
 
01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun.  It looks like maybe people should have left her alone.  Am I wrong here?
 
01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear.
 
01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother
 
01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father!
 
01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father
 
01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part III

This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God. 
 
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject?  We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?”  The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.”  We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life.
 
00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us.  So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors.
 
00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be
 
00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits
 
00:37:13 Anthony: medium
 
00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there?
 
00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus
 
00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people.
 
00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience
 
01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven.  God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice.  and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part II

We found ourselves this evening entering more deeply into the nature of the spiritual struggle and warfare and the effects that it has upon us and others. We do not exist in isolation and there is no passive position in the spiritual life or our relationship with God. We either struggle with the passions or they gradually direct our life. We either struggle with God and those he has given to support us and to be our allies in the battle or we begin to war with the tyrant. Our willingness to enter into the struggle with temptation, to fearlessly endure the trials that we undergo in life begins to reveal more and more to the soul. We begin to be able to distinguish between virtue and vice with a greater clarity. We also acquire virtue by this warfare and toil and so begin to see that we are more steadfast when embattled. Though stronger, however, we also learn that we must remain humble and hate vice so as to avoid it. Finally, we see our frailty in all of its fullness and the love and the power of God. The very battle itself reveals so much about ourselves and the hidden regions of the unconscious; that have been wounded by our sin or from having lived in a fallen world. Yet, it also reveals to us the very desire of God. God longs and yearns for our love. He thirsts for it. Such things are not learned from books but rather through the experience of the Paschal mystery. It is through dying to sin and self and rising to life in Christ that we come to know Him and to understand the nature of divine love.
 
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Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:38:39 Eric Ewanco: this paragraph really resonates with my recent experience!!
 
00:52:17 Anthony: Pope Benedict wrote about a non-sinful understanding of Eros.
 
00:52:45 Anthony: Spe Salvi?
 
00:54:04 Rachel: Can one experience these temptations so keenly that they feel as if they are actually doing violence to themselves? Especially when it come to thoughts. Where one does not wish to sin in the thoughts let alone sins of action. Do the demons and our wounds from past sins attack us even greater and rebel when we have set our hearts on God and his will alone? I know someone who described the fight as almost maddening because they had been so steeped in sin that the battle would even feel physically and mentally wounding. it reminds me of when Saint may of Egypt told Abba Zosimas that there were some days she would spend face down on the ground until they passed. Calling on the name of Jese.
 
00:54:11 Rachel: Jesus.
 
00:54:15 Eric Ewanco: I don't see "eros" occur in Spe Salvi
 
00:55:50 Ashley Kaschl: I think it might be in Deus Caritas Est
 
00:56:32 Eric Ewanco: probably; I see 34 hits for eros there
 
01:00:14 Anthony: For what it's worth, sometimes, I almost feel that the devils even wish to snatch away prayer or take over consciousness to direct my attention away from God and to them.
 
01:01:10 Eric Ewanco: oh yeah; definitely, @anthony
 
01:01:40 Anthony: On the timelessness of the unconscious, "Iconostasis" by Fr. Pavel Florensky opens with this theme.
 
01:03:57 Rachel: Yes! This is precisely what I hoped you would touch upon.
 
01:06:48 Rachel: Where it would seem to bring a person the the edge of sanity but that is precisly where all of our ideas that we had of ourselves and of God are brought into the light. Where one become disillusioned with oneself and realizes that they have been brought to the threshold of the bridal chamber. Where there are no illusions and one stands as they are, in God. Where on e allows themselves to be loved as they have always been.
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: Took me a little longer to type this out but I wanted to bounce off of Anthony’s comment on eros, I was recently talking to some friends about Pope Benedict’s clarifying of what God’s love looks like. Pope B says something like “on the Cross, God’s eros is made present for us.” Because His love is both agape and eros. Agape because it is selfless, self-gift, unconditional, sacrificial, etc. AND eros because God yearns for His people in the same way that eros burns passionately for the beloved. Eros moves the lover to become one with the beloved, ie, Christ and His church and through the Eucharist. So on the Cross, God begs the love of His people. Prayer is our act of eros back to God, where our own yearning for Him is most present within us as we call out to Him from our innermost being. So prayer is also the biggest target of the enemy because he knows that if he can destroy our connection to God, he greatly frustrate our passionate desire for Him.
 
01:13:43 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part III and Hypothesis XXIX, Part I

It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243
 
00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia.  I am infected with it these days!
 
00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling?
 
00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty
 
00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4.  Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread.  They can be stored for several months.  To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts.  I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top.
 
01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those
 
01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation).  At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture.  It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare.  It is in a way very hard to be Catholic.
 
01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing!
 
01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part II

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.
 
00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.
 
00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳
 
00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.
 
00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."
 
00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."
 
00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?
 
01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting
 
01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way
 
01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.
 
01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??
 
01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part I

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom. 
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept. 
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but. 
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVII

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope. 
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability. 
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.
 
00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave
 
00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us
 
00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!
 
00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol
 
00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).
 
00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.
 
00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"
 
00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.
 
00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.
 
00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.
 
00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.
 
00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.
 
00:59:05 Debra: ❤️
 
01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
 
01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested...
https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/
 
01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.
 
01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.
 
01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.
 
01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like
01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂
 
01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..
 
01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏
 
01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part III

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?
 
00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?
 
00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.
 
00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?
 
01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling
 
01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part II

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion. 
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?
 
00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.
 
00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?
 
00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?
 
00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?
 
01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂
 
01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are
very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.
 
01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come
 
01:07:12 Paul: +1
 
01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose
 
01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!
 
01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!
 
01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL
 
01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..
 
01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father
 
01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.
 
01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!
 
01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!
 
01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren
 
01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!
 
01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.
 
00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.
 
00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?
 
00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂
 
00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣
 
00:38:47 Debra: 😁
 
00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?
 
00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus
 
00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness
 
00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.
 
00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩
 
00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!
 
00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣
 
00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!
 
00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!
 
00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇
 
00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.
 
00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!
 
00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.
 
01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...
 
01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆
 
01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him. 
The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂
 
00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!
 
00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and
 
00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go
 
00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy. 
 
He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.
 
00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁
 
01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions. 
So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart -  thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others. 
Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity. 
Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4
 
00:20:30 Jack: page?
 
00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4
 
00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie  Man of God.. He was very Holy
 
00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God
 
00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)?
 
00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?)
 
00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct
 
00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec
 
00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback
 
00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or
 
00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends
 
00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop
 
00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin
 
00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example
 
00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all.
01:01:45 Eric Ewanco: Seeing our own faults in another is called "projection"
 
01:05:28 Ambrose Little, OP: Hey, I love a good shower. :)
 
01:13:27 Carol: Was it cassian or climacus who also warned against joking?
 
01:14:34 Erick Chastain: Follow-up to Carol's: St Benedict warned against a certain kind of joking in his rule. 
 
A related quote: "A friend is a second self, so that our consciousness of a friend's existence...makes us more fully conscious of our own existence." -Aristotle
 
01:15:15 Erick Chastain: (Aristotle)
 
01:20:28 Anne Barbosa: THANK YOU!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXIV

There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety. 
Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive.  Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed.
 
00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements.
 
00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me”
 
00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury.  It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense?
 
00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs.
 
00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of.
 
00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course.
 
01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy.
 
01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
 
01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands).
 
01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter
 
01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying
 
01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God.
 
01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way.
 
01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable.
 
01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part III

A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One?  The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering?  What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts?
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202
 
00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph
 
00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;)
 
00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;)
 
00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel
 
00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes
 
00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here?
 
00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils:  to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not.  The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part II

We continued to listen to the Father‘s counsel on avoiding relationships or circumstances that can bring us spiritual harm. Such thought is not guided by a lack of love or charity or hospitality; rather it is rooted in an understanding that we are first to love the Lord our God with all of our mind, soul, heart, and strength. It is only having our love ordered and directed toward Him that our love of the things and and people within the world can be rightly ordered. We were given one example after another of how necessary it is to discern when relationships are drawing us away from God or the ways that the devil can use us through our negligence to harm others spiritually. We don’t engage in the spiritual battle in a state of isolation. Nor do we seek to live the life of virtue simply for ourselves. Love demands that we be attentive to loving God above all things in order that we might draw all toward Christ. 
Such simplicity and clarity in the way that one views the world and oneself, creates the purity of heart that is necessary to discern the path and the will of God.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:29:57 Anthony: This is how I learned there was something wrong with some Catholic commentators.  They left me agitated about the legal aspect of the Faith....am I searching myself well enough, did I do this good enough? etc.  Jansenism
 
00:30:31 Anthony: on the church
 
00:30:37 Anthony: correcting the Novus ordo
 
00:30:42 Anthony: noveau telogie
 
00:32:36 Emma C: Where do we see the line between judging others vs judging their actions to know who to avoid?
 
00:35:42 Kevin Clay: I think we need to see that we can be that “foolish and thoughtless friend” to ourselves and not just others. We can be unwise, greedy, quarrelsome, arrogant, etc. We need to separate ourselves from our passions and the things that stir the passions.
 
00:44:37 Rachel: I was wondering about what you just mentioned. About being detached from ego. I was told recently to " Be at peace." in relation to something I did not realize was a distraction. At first, it made me wonder and uncomfortable. Since if I am not at peace, then something of what I spoke of must not be of God. It reminded me instantly of what a holy and wise priest told me. He said, not to speculate over matters. and it was clear, that the only thing needed was to stay in the moment with Our Lord.
 
00:45:35 Rachel: That these distractions are a result of idle distractions,no matter how good they appear. That God will take care of each moment and situation in His good Providence.
 
00:50:27 Debra: St. Bonaventure has a beautiful post-Communion prayer
 
https://tinyurl.com/4de5cj7z
 
00:50:54 Anthony: Thinking of just yourself and God:  In "A Man for All Seasons," St. Thomas More tries to break Richard Rich from avarice by telling him of the honor he would have as a mere teacher before God as his audience.  Had Richard Rich followed this advice, he would have avoided his moral downfall later on, and maybe even in his saving his soul, much of England would have been spared some of the violence of the 1500s. "Acquire a spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved." ~ St. Seraphim of Sarov
 
00:58:18 carolnypaver: If he had just said “no” the people would have wondered if the “brigand” would have been released IF ONLY the Elder had asked.  The Elder removed all doubt.
 
01:03:03 Rachel: I left a comment above about something you addressed. It seems his current reading ties into the discipline it takes to be detached not only from the things of this world but from oneself as well. Since our nous can be darkened, idle curiosities and distractions can wreak havoc in one's own life and those around them. Since the person given to these distractions will act from that skewed vision instead of the pure place of ordering everything to God and His good will alone
 
01:18:14 Rachel: You mentioned that purity in our day will be like the martyrs, because of the way the world is..in a beautiful homily our priest once gave, he mentioned St. Catherine of Siena. How she felt desperately that our Lord had left her in grave temptations. Yetm he reassured her that not only had he not left her but that she was more pleasing to him.
 
01:18:40 Rachel: So, it seems that fighting to stay with our Lord wont always feel rosy.
 
01:19:15 Ambrose Little: Advertising is not like in the old days. Moby Dick was a 900 page advert for the whaling industry. 😄
 
01:19:19 Anthony: The images themselves are very important in a post-rational environment when the senses and memory are wounded.  The Serbian Orthodox Church on YouTube has a 7 part series on the Icon and the contrast of iconic images versus the images that assault us.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thatis a wonderful series
 
01:22:08 Ren Witter: paypal.me/philokaliaministries
 
01:23:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you REn
 
01:24:41 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 
01:24:47 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! (And Ren 😎)
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part V and Hypothesis XXIII, Part I

Reading the Fathers often pierces the heart and changes our perspective upon life and our perception of reality itself. We continued with our reading of the fathers’ exhortation not to engage those who can bring harm to us in the spiritual life. This is often troublesome to modern sensibilities. The call to evangelize draws us out to engage the world. But what are we to give if we simply allow ourselves to be drawn back into the slavery of sin? We have to radically abandon our lives to Christ, conform our minds and hearts to His, and seek to live in obedience to His Will before we can bear witness to others. It is often said you cannot give what you do not have and the Fathers understood this in the fullest measure. We are capable of living a life of religion on the surface; of becoming comfortable with mediocrity and a religion of our own creation. Sometimes we do reduce our faith to a psychological construct and in this sense the modern critique of religion is on point. We have to be ever discerning of the deep attachment that we have to sin, to the things that lead to sin.  We must not live under the illusion that we are impervious to the power of the passions or temptation. We must be discerning, discriminating, in regards to everything that we experience within this world to determine whether or not it is from God. St Paul once said “we take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ.”This could be said of every relationship, every circumstance, we experience within this world. All things must be brought into the full light of the Truth.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 195 letter K
 
00:30:07 Bridget McGinley: St Cyril of Alexandria wrote "Every creature loves his kind therefore those with vices like those with similar vices". I feel like this means we must know our vices well so that we know who we will be attracted to and could be stumbling blocks. "Holy peace is not found here" he added.  Yes, Facebook is very dangerous and social media is very dangerous. I need to take this advice seriously.
 
00:34:21 Anthony: I just realized, the evil eye - mal'occhio - is about envy.  It's a serious thing, for both Christians and pagans.
 
00:35:27 Carol: Envy is a spirit of hades. It battles unceasingly against righteousness and God...envy never stops, the spirit of hades envies all men for all things... elder Thaddeus.
 
00:41:32 Bridget McGinley: Crushing pressure to be inside the "wokeness"
 
00:42:07 Eric Williams: In 1931, Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen wrote the following essay:
 
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance-it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
 
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
 
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”
 
00:43:48 Carol Nypaver: Amen!  Venerable Archbishop Fulton John Sheen, pray for us!
 
00:54:05 Carol: it seems like this is a common message in the church as you said, and even the confessional
 
01:01:05 Anthony: Trauma reminds me of the story about the alcoholic monk who became alcoholic after seeing his village massacred when he was a child.
 
01:01:58 Paul Grazal: +1 On The Eight Vices manuscript Father.  Thank You.
 
01:20:13 sue and mark: it is good to wrestle with it
 
01:21:08 Emma C: When we are told to turn away from people who are stumbling blocks for us in the spiritual life, how do we evangelize others if we turn away from everyone who isn't helping us grow spiritually?
 
01:24:14 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part IV

We continued along the central theme of Hypothesis 22 and those that follow - we are to avoid entering into the things of the world and so lose what is most life-giving. 
The monk becomes a very powerful example of this danger because in his response to God’s call he leaves everything within the world in order to be wholly given over to God; to trust fully in God’s providence, to pray without ceasing and to embrace a life of modification.  It is to embrace the angelic life. In contrast to fallen angels, these men set aside all that is worldly in order to be fixed in mind and body completely on the Kingdom. Their whole life becomes a sacrifice of praise. 
To move away from this, becoming immersed once again in the things of this world is to become like a corpse. If one turns away from the source of life and salvation and turns to that which does not endure, then he himself will be reduced to nothing - to ashes. To understand this we have to have the faith to see the love and the life that God has given us in His Son. We must be able to see how precious it is; that it is the pearl of great price that we should be willing to sacrifice all to possess. 
Anything less, any different vision of life immediately opens the door for us to seek fulfillment and hope in the things of this world. If we do not value God above all things then we will misdirect that desire which is at the very heart of our being. When this happens we cease to be human beings.  We lose sight of our own dignity and the dignity of others. We will become like salt that has lost its saltness, as Jesus describes, and that has no worth.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192,
 
00:35:07 Daniel Allen: Is there a difference between conversing with people and conversing with “worldly” people in this? Specifically, I think of saints meeting with many people every day to give them counsel or just to listen to them? Saints such as St. Seraphim of Sarov or (fictional) the monk Zosimov from the Brothers Karamasov? Is it that they purified their hearts and attained to true humility before then speaking with people? Or again is it that the issue is speaking with people about trivial or frivolous things that dissipate the monk?
 
00:36:34 Edward Kleinguetl: Those who become spiritual fathers do not seek to become one. Many spend many years (25+) in prayer and solitude before they may be requested to be a spiritual father and confessor.
 
00:37:24 Edward Kleinguetl: They are well versed in Sacred Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers.  They do not share their own opinion. All advice is grounded in Scriptures and the Fathers.
 
00:45:27 Anthony: On the motions within the heart and relating to other people in wise or unwise interactions.  I think we have a mix of ignorance and vice in the interior life that lead us astray.  Imagine that your life is like a garden. You planted pepper seeds, but you have never seen pepper seedlings.  And, a wild animal enters in and sheds weed seeds and you don't realize it.  So, when the seedlings come up, you are not exactly sure what is a pepper and what is not. Sometimes you only gradually come to awareness on what is a good plant and a good fruit and what is not.  You look at pictures or have an experienced friend to teach you about the garden.  And that year, you miss the mark on a good garden, you get some fruit but not optimal.  But, you get experience for the next growing season, if you pay attention and learn from your mistakes.  Keep trying, and being patient and prune and weed as you realize you need to. :-)
 
00:57:36 Bridget McGinley: I think that news came out from the Pope and YES much needed !
 
00:58:16 Anthony: Friendship can be like alcohol.  Very valuable, but at the right times and in the right quantities.  We can misuse friendship to drown out our real needs.
 
01:03:10 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Met. Anthony Bloom - churchianity vs Christianity
 
01:03:15 Kevin Clay: Churchianity vs. Christianity by Met. Anthony Bloom
 
01:05:26 Rachel: This reading reminds me of St. Christina the Astonishing. Apparently the stench of the people in the church woke her from a coma so serious she was put into a coffin and the community was attending her funeral. And I think od St. Catherine of Sienna being able to smell the stench of sin in some...this always makes me wonder if I stinketh to others and if so, what can I do to have my prayers rise as incense.. :/
 
01:08:06 Carol: white washed tombs
 
01:12:42 carolnypaver: How do we NOT become “corpses” when we totally withdraw from the people in our lives? Don’t we become “dead” to them? Is that good for their souls?
 
01:18:03 Daniel Allen: Is it fair to take this one step further and say that the monk or Christian who follows this advice or path, then becomes salt to others who have no salt and become a means of salvation for those around us? A broader and larger connectedness, where the strengthening of one part aids the weaker parts of the body. A call to be salt to the world, and that one isn’t simply seeking a personal salvation but that one would seek to acquire this salt from God for the sake of others as well?
 
01:18:23 Rachel: Once, on the way to Mass, I ran into a homeless person who was thirsty. The young man was in a wheel chair, and when I tried to approach him, he begged me not to approach him. There was a very strong and unpleasant odor coming from him. I approached anyway and he told me, please, not to touch him or come closer as his legs were being eaten away by maggots. He lifted his gown and it is true, he was being eaten alive. I asked him why, if he wanted to go to the hospital and he declined. Said he had just been kicked out of the hospital. So I asked him if he wants a priest. I will get a priest. He said yes, to pray and he allowed me to give him my scapular as I thought he was close to death by the smell. He wold not allow me to put the scapular on but promised he would. I went to Mass which had already begun. I stopped the first priest I know, and told him what had happened. Asked him to please go see him immediately. He pulled back and told me that priest so and so deals with things like that. While
 
01:20:13 Rachel: While I cannot judge the priest, this, is an exactly  example of letting the moment pass by when we, when I, am called to do something that our Lord asks.
 
01:20:29 Bridget McGinley: Love the story Rachel thanks for sharing
 
01:21:22 Rachel: When I went back to check on him, the young man was gone.
 
01:25:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:29 Jack: thanks father whats the hat called
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part III

Both an inspiring and challenging section from the Evergetinos this evening!  The Fathers speak to us about the monastic life and its clear focus; a clarity that perhaps we have lost in more recent times. The monk lives for God, to seek God, to listen to God, and to pray. This he does as part of the Body of Christ, the Church, for the salvation of others. And yet we are shown how easy it is to cast off that “sweet yoke” of the Lord where He no longer has authority over us. Even a monk would gravitate away from what is described as the “Divine Wheat” that is drenched by the heavy rain of heavenly life bestowing Spirit. We leave peace and converse with God simply to be distracted by fleshly realities. We choose what is of passing and lesser value and let the divine slip through our fingers. 
The monks show us that we are to guard the heart;  in particular by guarding our words and what we listen to. We must always seek to make our speech edifying, seasoning our words with Divine salt so as to preserve the purity of heart in the others as well as in ourselves. We must not listen to unprofitable words but flee the situation where we are tempted. No one should be so deluded so as to think that we can expose ourselves to angry, hostile, or wicked words and not become wicked ourselves. All such things remain lodged in the memory, imagination and heart. Our relationship with God must be precious in our eyes even if this means avoiding those who are acquisitive or licentious. Rather we must gravitate to the righteous man who through his words and deeds will draw us closer to God. 
Do we want to be saved? This is the most powerful question of the night. It is a humbling thing to acknowledge our poverty of spirit and  so we can develop a resistance to God’s call to draw close to him. One may not want to be saved or find it too humiliating and so cling to a false self image. May God preserve us from such delusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:29 FrDavid Abernethy: page 190
 
00:11:37 FrDavid Abernethy: last paragraph
 
00:33:50 Anthony: In a way, this is an example of giving up a lesser good (awareness of others, or a form of fellowship) for the benefit of achieving a greater good?
 
00:36:09 maureencunningham: It seems like the early chuch was aware of demons
 
00:36:21 Jos: it gets even worse when it's about politics and religion
 
00:36:31 maureencunningham: It seems the America church has learned to adjust to them
 
00:36:58 maureencunningham: The early church called them demons
 
00:39:21 Paul Grazal: You wonder what engagement he had that made him think that.  I can think of a few that ive had that i should have avoided
 
00:40:58 Paul Grazal: Yes Thank You
 
00:41:38 Rachel Pineda: Tubes of paint... ,and books..
 
00:45:54 Anthony: Too much buying and selling and we don't know how to "be" but only to become; thus Americans are great in markets and inventions, but we neglect basic metaphysics about life, and we are now existing as several coexisting lost generations.
 
00:49:08 Lee Graham: We are entertaining ourselves to death
 
00:49:36 Carol: books and legos
 
00:50:41 Anthony: Or "The Great Wall" in 3D
 
00:57:20 Anthony: St. John of Damascus: "whether I will or not, O Lord, save me - quick, quick - for I perish."  Paraphrase from the Melkite Publicans Prayer Book.
 
00:59:37 maureencunningham: is it like piano it comes with much practice before one can play Bach
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Like the Pharisee and the publican, the delusion of the holy person vs the truth of the sinner
 
01:07:51 Anthony: I think it has something to do with an urge which has good roots: "It is not good for man to be alone."  This is a good thing, but out of order.
 
01:09:11 Daniel Allen: The language of God is silence is something I thought about recently and why silence? And because it’s the silence that allows Him to be heard, like the gentle breeze that Elijah heard. He doesn’t replace our voice, He waits to be heard.
 
01:12:00 Debra: I'm a scheduled Adorer, at my parish. And I really struggle with just sitting in silence. I feel like I should be praying a rosary, or reading about the saints...doing something
How can I develop the practice of sitting still? My brain is always racing through stuff
 
01:14:04 Paul Fifer: I think  Holy Hours were set to an Hour because it takes about 20 minutes to quiet our minds and hearts and enter into the Silence.
 
01:15:11 Debra: Paul: At least 20 minutes
 
01:16:06 Jos: is it advisable to think about God in the abstract or should we focus on Jesus as God to stay out of delusions in the face of the really mysterious idea of God?
 
01:20:27 Bridget McGinley: Thank you for that explanation Father.
 
01:21:04 Anthony: I just finished it.  It's amazing, drawing on the Greek fathers so sounds very orthodox
 
01:22:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part II

We picked up this evening with our reading of the very challenging Hypothesis 22: the Fathers’ teaching to avoid the world and worldly relations. However, we must understand that when they speak of the world they speak of those things or relationships that are driven more by the passions than by grace and the love of God. 
Central to this is having a rightly ordered love that is focused upon Christ. All things must begin and end with Him and all things are judged in light of the Love of the Kingdom. This Love must become the lens through which we view all things, most especially our own thoughts and desires. What is it - at this moment - that is going to be pleasing to God or fulfill our obedience to our elder? Are we doing things in subtle ways simply to please ourselves; always seeking to form and fashion our own identity and to be the source of meaning for ourselves and our lives? 
For a Christian living in the world to “stay in one’s cell“ means to keep watch over my inner self, my own heart. This is why the Fathers put forward as an essential practice unceasing prayer, and particular the Jesus Prayer. It is only by constantly calling out to God that we are given the strength and the grace to love God and to love others in the way He desires for us. We are called to be Christ for one another and so our love and our actions must be Christlike. To be anything otherwise is to strip the gospel of its power to make ourselves unrecognizable as those who have been made sons and daughters of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:12 carolnypaver: Congratulations!🥳
 
00:18:31 Debra: What are we congratulating? I came in late
 
00:18:50 carolnypaver: 500 podcasts for Fr. David!
 
00:19:09 Ambrose Little, OP: remarkable progress. how did we get to p188?? 🙂
 
00:20:07 Debra: Oh, wow! Thanks Carolyn!
 
00:32:55 Anthony: Does this mean that even as being a contemplative is a vocation, staying in a city to minister must be a specific vocatiom?
 
00:59:00 Rachel: I love that song!
 
01:01:29 Annie Karto: So true about doing more than what God asks, especially in ministry
 
01:05:15 Erick Chastain: Stop being friends as much as possible with worldly people. It will help everything tremendously. Having done this it helps remove many occasions of sin.
 
01:10:42 Carol Nypaver: It’s difficult to remember, as parents, that the goal of parenting is not that our children love us but to raise them to be citizens of Heaven, which  sometimes causes them to hate us.
 
01:11:19 Rachel: Thank you Carol!
 
01:12:04 Erick Chastain: I read it as saying we should flee from the world as much as possible, including worldly people, to protect ourselves from the flaring of the passions
 
01:13:04 Erick Chastain: but without abandoning our responsibilities if we are not a monk
 
01:19:59 John White: The author of The Imitation of Christ paraphrased the Roman philosopher/playwright Seneca "As often as I have been among men, I have returned home a lesser man"
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Challenge to connect with people if we always are trying to be aloof.
 
01:20:11 iPad (10)maureen: I think the monk you met You spotted Joy, It Joy we give up things
 
01:23:31 iPad (10)maureen: I say the. Jesus prayer when something I do not like  is on TV
 
01:23:40 Ambrose Little, OP: You could try time boxing. Like “I'll watch an hour with you" or something and/or “just this show on this day" or similar.
 
01:24:39 Erick Chastain: that's a great suggestion Ambrose!
 
01:30:13 Annie Karto: What beautiful teaching Fr. Thank you
 
01:31:32 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part VI and Hypothesis XXII, Part I

We began this evening with the final pages of Hypothesis 21 describing the importance of not opening one’s conscience to an individual unless guided by the Grace of God to do so. It is not a small thing to entrust oneself to the care of another, especially the care of one’s soul. Therefore we are counseled to be discriminating. For the elder that we choose, or rather the elder that God chooses for us, is a gift; a relationship of love and devotion. An Elder does not see himself as detached from our struggles but rather enters into them and takes penance and prayer upon himself for our healing. We do not struggle in isolation. Understanding the importance of this relationship,then, we should pray for our elder and love him. 
Moving on to Hypothesis 22 we are warned to avoid meetings with careless men and avoiding anything that would disturb the peace of our heart or the stillness that has been hard won. We must never see idle conversation as insignificant. Rather we must understand that if allow ourselves to be drawn along by such conversations our consciences will coarsen and we will find ourselves engaged in grievous conversations and behaviors. 
We are given a wonderful example of an elder who, because of his purity and innocence, finds God responding immediately to his prayers for others. No impediment is placed before the action of God‘s grace in his life or acting through his intercession. We should not be surprised when the Fathers tell us that if we neglect our relationship with God or treat His grace cheaply that our prayers go unanswered.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:16 B K-LEB: like fr zozima
 
00:29:29 Ambrose Little, OP: “outraged ... since he did not rely totally on the help of God." Love that.
 
00:31:10 Anthony: So much for "Grace Alone."  One the one hand, all good is from God, all good is a grace.  But, we must exercise the faculty of human nature (which is also a gift) to choose the grace, to at least choose a desire for the grace.  I think St. Anselm says this in "One Truth" or "On Free Will"
 
00:32:22 Anthony: "On Truth"
 
00:39:21 Anthony: In America, we tie sin to things: sugary drinks, alcohol, guns, etc.  It is very selective. But traditionally, sin is attached to our deficiencies of soul - and a Puritan look at sin does not take this psychology into account.
 
00:40:36 Sheila Applegate: Attachment to having life the way we want it?
 
00:50:10 B K-LEB: i agree anthony
 
00:50:38 B K-LEB: i personally think the inner spiritual sins are far worse than the physical sins
 
00:52:02 B K-LEB: i'd rather go to heaven fat and humble than thin and proud, haha
 
00:53:18 Ren: It would be so good for seminarians to read this particular hypothesis when they study confession. So much meaningful, and practical advice. The way to engage the penitent, the call to enter into repentance with them…all just so good.
 
00:54:41 B K-LEB: too much theology can make us proud pharisees
 
00:56:56 Anthony: Copts require new priests to spend 40 days in monastery
 
00:57:56 Bridget McGinley: The Jesuits used to not be able to listen to women's confessions until they had been a priest for 10 years.
 
01:02:50 B K-LEB: isn't spiritual pride essentially the worst kind of sin?
 
01:04:59 Anthony: He gives us a remedy: using the 2nd person plural in the Our Father so we lump ourselves together with all other sinners: "Forgive US OUR trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us / Lead US not into temptation but deliver US from evil."
 
01:20:36 Ren: The warning that idle words quickly become harmful ones is really, really helpful. I have often seen this happen in myself, yet I’ve never heard it explicitly said that the one can so easily lead to the other. It casts a far more serious light on consenting to idle conversation, knowing how easily it leads to something more sinister. So many “little sins” become more sinister when you examine the greater sins that the open the door to. I know that even thinking about addressing this is terrifying for me…but it does make me think about how much idle conversation one is exposed to in television, movies, radio, social media…definitely thought provoking.
 
01:31:06 Ren: Awesome way to make a discussion of the Fathers topically connected to the holiday :D GO REVOLUTION!! ;-)
 
01:34:46 B K-LEB: thank u so much
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part V

What a beautiful group this evening. Once again we hear a young brother asking  questions about transgressing the commands and guidance given by an elder. What we hear over and over again is an emphasis upon the fact that an elder is not disconnected from one in his care. If a person transgresses a command or ignores the guidance of an elder, he is to return to him without fear or with the expectation that his humility will be met with anything but gentleness, tenderness, and further counsel. Of course, this does not mean we fall into neglect or become indifferent about striving to live holy lives.  What we find in the Fathers again and again is an emphasis upon the value of repentance; turning to God with humble hearts and receiving a flood of his grace and mercy. 
Again the brother asks if one should simply neglect to learn about the spiritual life so as not to be held accountable for particular sins. The elder quickly tells him that such a thought is sinister in that it blocks the path to true healing. Sin brings its own suffering. Repentance is a gift from God that opens up a path to healing and hope.  Why would one not want to know the path that God has opened up for us? Why would one not desire the wisdom of the counsel of the fathers in order that they might truly be healed? Furthermore, the elder emphasizes that God values the person of his servants precisely because they imitate Christ himself. They offer advice with intense and warm prayer to God and make their own the sufferings of others crying out to God, “Master save us, we perish.“  Save US! We do not struggle as Christians in isolation but we embrace one another’s struggles as our own.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:40 David Fraley: Hello to all.
 
00:16:52 FrDavid Abernethy: page 180 letter K.  Hypothesis 21
 
00:17:17 FrDavid Abernethy: hi Dave
 
00:17:25 FrDavid Abernethy: where are the snacks??
 
00:19:01 maureencunningham: thank you Ren
 
00:24:58 carolnypaver: What page/section?
 
00:25:09 renwitter: =Page 181
 
00:25:16 carolnypaver: TY
 
00:34:35 Sheila Applegate: I often feel like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill only  to have it come crashing down. Rinse. Repeat.
 
00:35:39 Debra: Same

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part IV

We continued with the incredible counsel of the Fathers about how one discerns when to embrace the advice and counsel of others, specifically one’s Elder. The first distinction made is about advice - counsel that is a part of the spiritual tradition as a whole and so valuable in and of itself. This should be embraced faithfully - for it is given by the goodness and kindness of one’s Elder. When that relationship has grown throughout the course of the years a command may be given by an Elder. This command, however, is only given under specific circumstances; never casually. One must have a kind of clarity and sense of commitment to what is being asked of the Elder. This is to be done by making a prostration, a bodily action and sign of obeisance showing one’s desire to take hold of the command of the Elder. The Elder, then, in an equally concrete fashion must give his blessing. In doing so he takes upon himself the commitment to pray and fast that the one in his care would be able to fulfill the command. We see in all of this the depth of the relationship that must exist between an Elder and the one in his charge. We do not simply expose ourselves to information, reading the writings of the Elders and applying them to our lives. Rather, we enter into a living tradition and it is in and through this relationship between an elder and the one in his care that spiritual growth is made. It is a relationship of love that mirrors the relationship that Christ has with each of us. He calls us to give ourselves to Him and follow Him and in doing so He gives us himself in the most holy Eucharist. The command always holds within it the grace to help us fulfill it. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:46 FrDavid Abernethy: Anthony Coniaris
 
00:17:55 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginnners Guide to the Philokalia
 
01:09:50 Ren: This reminder that the Elder prays for the one whom he counsels is very helpful. I am not sure there is anything more humbling than being prayed for - or fasted for! Knowing that another is investing themselves so deeply on your behalf definitely spurs one on to greater dedication. The gift demands a response.
 
01:11:26 Ren: Yes. Wow. Imagine that: God himself, in the person of Christ, fasted for each one of us. Spent himself praying for each of us. So very humbling.
 
01:12:09 Carol Nypaver: Absolutely.
 
01:20:09 Ren: Just a little PSA for everyone: we have switched our email service to MailChimp. If you did not receive an email in advance of tonight’s group, please check your spam filter, and mark it as not junk. Thank you!
 
01:21:32 David Fraley: Thanks Fr David!
 
01:21:47 Debra: The short link, tonight, still triggered a 'Threat Warning' from Avast lol
 
01:21:58 Ambrose Little: stop using Avast
 
01:22:20 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 2nd experience with baptism!
 
01:22:28 Eric Williams: Keeping you busy and out of trouble. ;)
 
01:22:54 Debra: You're making me want to switch to the East lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part III

What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well.
This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time.
What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace.
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;)
 
00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting!
 
00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;)
 
00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever!
 
00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9?  All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them?  Especially when we are previously unmerciful?  Or am I off the mark?
 
00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great.  Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.”
00:31:27 Tyler Woloshyn: It reminds me of the verse and humbly to bear one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2)
 
00:32:09 B K-LEB: St therese said "the spirit blows where it wills"
 
00:32:27 B K-LEB: when asked about why she thinks God chose her..
 
00:38:11 Rachel Pineda: I do not think I am being to harsh here that the asceticism spoken of here is sometimes taken as superstitious but in fact when one treats it as such  it is a lack of faith in God's Providential care of each and every soul. Also, a lack of patience. Well, the Father just said better than I.
 
00:39:05 Anthony: St. Padre Pio ~ If you think I make a mistake, do you think God would?  (different context, but the principle fits.)
 
00:39:48 Rachel Pineda: LOL
 
00:39:58 Rachel Pineda: No the Desert Father but okay
 
00:40:15 Rachel Pineda: I am sure you know better than I
 
00:41:05 Rachel Pineda: What I am speaking about is the radical conversion that takes place. Even to other faithful it can look weird.
 
00:41:41 B K-LEB: I heard a man who had dealt with sexual abuse at the church say that "you don't have to heal to be holy". I am wondering your thoughts about this. Is healing necessarily and intrinsically related to holiness?
 
00:45:14 Rachel Pineda: I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen spoke about that in his talks on confession!
 
00:48:40 B K-LEB: wow thank u
 
00:49:09 Rachel Pineda: Yes, Thank you!
 
00:53:02 Anthony: It seems to me that the grief or pain is often one of the mind or imagination, but the center of the soul is confident in God.  The nagging thought is precisely the fog of thought, and the devil wishes it to descend to the nous - but God Who does not abandon the man allows us to conscously unite out thoughts to the  "crown of thorns" of Christ's crucifixion.
 
00:56:50 Anthony: Fr. Pavel Florovsku, "Iconostasis", opens with a discussion of dreams and time.
 
00:56:57 Anthony: Florovsky
 
00:58:49 Rachel Pineda: WOW!!
 
01:01:02 B K-LEB: Father you should talk more about this topic many are interested
 
01:17:42 Anthony: Father, this isn't just a religious topic. It involves the philosophical discipline of epistemlogy (the search for certain truth) - and we Americans are so impoverished in philosophical language and concepts
 
01:19:38 Eric Williams: Data, data everywhere, and not a thought to think
 
01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: My daughter once asked a co-worker what he thought about a particular topic.  He said, I haven’t thought about that, let me look it up.  😲
 
01:21:26 Anthony: It's a form of intoxication.
 
01:23:01 Debra: Off topic:
Asking for prayers for all those effected by the flooding in southern Montana, and Yellowstone park
Several rivers flooded; roads and bridges gone  Thank you
 
01:24:17 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night. God bless!
 
01:24:37 David Fraley: Good night, everyone!
 
01:24:55 Rachel Pineda: Goodnight!
 
01:25:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone!
 
01:25:15 sue and mark: good night and God Bless
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part II

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 21. One is not to reveal the thoughts of the heart and the mind or one’s temptations to others indiscriminately. Rather, we are to seek out those who have the gift of discernment and experiential knowledge. Only those who are engaged in spiritual warfare, who know their own minds and hearts well can speak to the struggles of others. Much damage can be and has been done by those who set themselves up as teachers of the faith and the spiritual life and yet not living it themselves in any measure. What we are to look for in an elder are the particular gifts of the Spirit that arise from living the gospel fully; humility, repentance, obedience, tenderness gentleness, charity, mercy.  In order for one struggling with their sins and the shame that often accompanies them to find courage to acknowledge them, they need an elder who speaks to them with love; a love that reflects Christ himself. How can we speak of what we do not know? We cannot teach the faith or guide others from a position of power but rather imitate Christ in approaching others in a humble and selfless fashion.
 
Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:07:57 FrDavid Abernethy: Public
 
Prayer of St. John Chrysostom before reading spiritual texts.    
O Lord Jesus Christ, open Thou the eyes of my heart, that I may hear Thy word and understand and do Thy will, for I am a sojourner upon the earth. Hide not Thy commandments from me, but open mine eyes, that I may perceive the wonders of Thy law. Speak unto me the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom. On Thee do I set my hope, O my God, that Thou shalt enlighten my mind and understanding with the light of Thy knowledge, not only to cherish those things which are written, but to do them, that in reading the lives and sayings of the Saints I may not sin, but that such may serve for my restoration, enlightenment and sanctification, for the salvation of my soul, and the inheritance of life everlasting; For Thou art the enlightenment of those who lie in darkness, and from Thee cometh every good deed and every gift. Amen.
 
00:11:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170
 
00:16:56 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be to Jesus Christ! Good evening everyone.
 
00:27:02 David Robles: According to the Philokalia the stages of sin/temptation are
 
00:34:29 Anthony: How do these stages of sin correlate to the Roman distinctions between Imperfections, Venial sins and Mortal Sins?  Or is that too big a topic or a harmful focus on what is evil within us instead of focus on what is good, noble, etc?
 
00:34:41 Wayne: page?
 
00:43:25 Josie: "preach and if you have to, speak"
 
00:56:58 Josie: is there a difference between the evil one hearing the confession of our thoughts in private vs in public? can't he hear them in both cases?
 
00:57:07 Josie: sorry sent by accident
 
00:59:28 Anthony: The protection of the mind is maybe the really important problem with social media - as one mindlessly absorbs, one tunes into so many different minds putting themselves out for consumption; it's more indiscriminate than TV since you can get so many channels one right after the other.
 
01:07:55 Tyler Woloshyn: Some priests are not psychologists nor should pretend to be in the confessional
 
01:08:23 sue and mark: yup
 
01:14:26 Josie: so does a confession with a bad priest still give us grace?
 
01:18:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes, if he's ordained and pronounces absolution. Personal qualities don't impede the sacramental grace.
 
01:28:31 carolnypaver: My question is from section C. What about sharing what we learned in Spiritual direction with one’s spouse, especially concerning children?
 
01:29:17 carolnypaver: Thank you!
 
01:29:28 Josie: 1 sec
 
01:29:31 Josie: typing
 
01:29:46 Josie: in AA they teach you to tell your story
 
01:29:51 Josie: to help others heal
 
01:30:00 Josie: my priest says that's good
 
01:30:03 Josie: yes
 
01:34:12 Josie: thank you father!!!!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part VI and Hypothesis XXI, Part I

We continued in our reading of the Evergetinos hypothesis 20 on the importance of revealing one’s thoughts to an elder. The struggle in the spiritual life entails letting go of embarrassment and shame that often plague us - in order that we might freely acknowledge our sins or the thoughts that lead to them. The revelation of these thoughts must be received by elders with the greatest care and tenderness. It is both the perseverance of the one struggling and the patience of the caregiver, the elder, that brings healing. Over and over again we are presented with stories of those who overcome their fear of shame and in their freedom to acknowledge their sin come to experience freedom from the sin itself. Therefore, the fathers hold up before us humility, truthful living; bringing all that is within the mind and heart into the light of Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 number 3
 
00:37:30 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?
 
00:37:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 167
 
00:37:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:42:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Seems like it's less a question of whether this or that father is particularly learned, but that God wants us to seek the guidance of others as an expression of humility and so, through that, will guide us. We may or may not get a "wise" answer, but the actual experience of that humility is in itself instructive and the Spirit will teach us through that.
 
00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: accompaniment 😄
 
01:11:19 Ambrose Little, OP: it says he “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction”
 
01:12:08 Ren: Yea, it does say “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction,” and that he had no “commitment, or agony of soul,” so I think the ways in which the brothers approach the elder are radically different. Not just a difference of physical tears.
 
01:12:33 Ren: Ditto Ambrose
 
01:14:03 Rachel: To me, tears of this sort seems to be a source of scandal for some in the west. Where they are questioned and looked upon as hysterics or a lack of humility, or lack of trust in God;s mercy, and absence of the peace of the Holy Spirit. I don't actually believe there is a problem with the theology of holy repentance in the west, but that it is a misinterpretation of the different manifestations of true repentance in the spiritual life. It is an idea of what repentance must look like. And right now, that seems to be a knee jerk stoic reaction to the nihilist culture we find ourselves surrounded by. The focus by some faithful on keeping it together in a stoic like manner can even encourage and foster an irreverent confession at best because if one is caught crying then, it may be viewed with suspicion.  I do not mean to criticize but only mean to point out the perception I have encountered ( even in myself) that one must have this stoned faced spiritual life coupled with an alloyed joy we pray against.
 
01:15:35 Rachel: It makes me wonder, when one realizes, as God reveals Hiimself, to one;s own capacity, that they are a child of God, one would not be able to help but have copious tears of repentance.
 
01:16:58 Ambrose Little, OP: For a long time I was puzzled by the great saints who would belabor their sinfulness, even with many tears. It sorta came across to me as somehow over the top, maybe too much ("extra” as we say these days). But I think what it is is their greater understanding of the perfect love and goodness of God, the good things God wants to bestow upon us, and how even our lesser imperfections cause us to lose out on the fullness of what God wishes to bless us with.
 
01:18:10 Eric Williams: I suspect that tears of repentance would be regarded as foreign to a sense of "romanitas".
 
01:18:39 Rachel: Well, when in Rome. Sigh
 
01:20:13 Eric Williams: I don't say that approvingly. ;)
 
01:22:21 Rachel: I just want to point out that when one is truly striving, by the grace of God, even and especially tears are brought before the Lord. I mean to say that one doesn't relish in crocodile tears when one truly desires to please God.
 
01:23:12 Ed Havrilla Jr.: The woman who wept at the feet of Jesus, washing his feet, was forgiven and freed of her sin.
 
01:25:01 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:01 Rachel: Thank you father and everyone.
 
01:25:17 Rachel: Yay!
 
01:25:18 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part V

Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos.  As always it is a privilege and joy to sit at the feet of the Fathers with you.
Synopsis:
We continue our reading this evening of Hypothesis 20 on the revealing of one’s thoughts to an elders. Again and again we are taught by the Fathers that this is the path to true healing for us. It is when we keep our thoughts secret, when we hide them, when we lie about them, that the devil gains a greater foothold in our lives. We are warned that God is not mocked for he sees all things and into the depths of the heart. So we are to never lie. In humility, we are to seek forgiveness and to acknowledge our thoughts, our temptations, any concerns, our desires, or even simple thoughts to our elders. When we do this our heart is also open to the Grace and action of God. The moment that we acknowledge the truth is the moment a flood of Grace comes upon us.  It is then that the demon is cast out. St Paul tells us: "Take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ." It is our good fortune to have the Fathers to show us the path by which we can do this.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:23 FrDavid Abernethy: The Evergetinos
 
00:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Center for Traditional Orthodox Studies
 
00:14:18 Fr. Miron Jr.: yes we are
 
00:14:28 Fr. Miron Jr.: she is tired of me
 
00:14:49 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163
 
00:15:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Letter D
 
00:16:14 Debra: Do we need to re-sign up?
 
00:16:37 Josie: are we allowed to send father questions outside the group?
 
00:16:48 FrDavid Abernethy: yes
 
00:16:49 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
 
00:17:02 Ren: Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
00:17:22 Josie: how do we reach you father? which email?
 
00:17:24 Ren: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
00:17:40 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com
 
00:18:13 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: hahaha
 
00:24:17 Debra: {Not raising my hand...I was shooing my dog away}
 
00:37:33 joannedavids: This is enlightening.  Very helpful.  Thank you, Fr.
 
00:44:31 Josie: were the fathers able to distinguish between evil thoughts that came from the evil one and those that came from their own thoughts and hearts? if so how?
 
00:45:12 Ambrose Little: This was before mass marketing. LOL 😄
 
00:46:54 Josie: thank you
 
00:53:12 Ren: The thought presented in the second to last sentence - that telling (thoughts) is equal to rejecting - is really fascinating. Also interesting to think about when they are what you might consider “good thoughts.” By sharing them with the Abba you are showing a willingness to submit all - the good and the bad - to the wisdom of an elder. To reject all for the sake of humility, of truth, and obedience. Sometimes even thoughts that seem very good might not be good for you at the time, or might not actually be good at all.
 
00:54:35 Josie: it's kiind of beautiful that God made it so that our salvation in interlinked with others in so many ways...
 
01:11:10 joannedavids: “Can’t see the forest for the trees.”
 
01:20:22 Ren: Links for the groups:
 
01:20:24 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
01:20:43 Ren: Business email: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
01:20:44 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMONMxs61g&t=3467s Fr. Davids Homily 29min
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part IV

Text of chat during the group: 
00:28:07 Josie: Does the first monk who said that he wanted to trust in God in the solitude of the desert demonstrate to us that God won't save someone who is alone or that this isn't the way that we approach the idea of complete trust in God? The context of my question being the mantra that we should trust only and fully in God and only he can help us.
 
00:29:51 Josie: So being completely alone isn't a sort of extra trust in God?
 
00:33:14 Anthony: Even in a non-monastic setting, being alone, outside of accountability to family and community, opens the mind to lots of thoughts or evil suggestions.  And a person can be alone in this sense either literally solitary or in a crowd like a college.  People can be severely tried when solitary in these senses.  There's something in Ecclesiastes that Father quotes, about walking alone, when you fall, who can help?  When you are with others they are even a preventative to falling.
 
00:33:36 Anthony: other people are encouragement to the heart.
 
00:45:18 Josie: is it weird to reveal our thoughts rather than actions and sins in the confessional?
 
00:45:33 Anthony: On a theological or social-theological note, this destructive sense of obedience - as I understand it, comes from Jansenism.  A Catholic Calvinism...and Calvinism focused for some reason on God's election, no place for a free love, it seems to me.
 
00:48:21 Ren: It is so powerful to compare the image of one who commands obedience put forward by Christ - a shepherd whose voice is followed, who carries those who are not strong enough to walk; one who stands in the midst of their followers as one who serves - to what you put forward just now - a hammer who drives others into a exact place by sheer force. Wow. Really amazing to reflect on.
 
00:53:45 Forrest Cavalier: μεγάλε
 
00:56:45 Ren: Satan - the relentless bartender :-D
 
00:57:42 Tyler Woloshyn: Reminds of the classic cartoon villain who keeps getting foiled by the virtuous protagonist.
 
01:04:29 Ren: I love this story so much. One of my favorites in the book so far.
 
01:04:40 Josie: me too
 
01:04:45 Ashley Kaschl: Same. It’s so good.
 
01:06:00 Josie: father does fasting help with the psychological temptations or only physical temptations of the body? hope this q makes sense
 
01:09:40 Tyler Woloshyn: We know that these texts were written in a different technological era.  Fasting seems to become more of a battle today for lay, clergy, and monastic alike given technology.  Temptations and challenges to fasts can be magnified even more now then they were in the age of the Fathers.  The devil does not need to walk down the road here, he can be at the tip of one's fingers with screen time.
 
01:10:37 Josie: someone said on Twitter "the Lord gives the solution then he allows the problem"
 
01:12:11 Josie: he was quoting a Rabbi i think, and was talking about the internet
 
01:12:46 Anthony: I think what matters is what flask you drink from - or don't.  Since 2018, the Catholic news has been consumed with obkective wrongs, which exist, but can become consumptive: 2018-2019: sex scandal. 2019, Pachademon in Vatican. 2020-2022, election , Great Reset and covid.  2022, Ukraine.  The imbalance and fixation is real but can be a poison to imbibe and gets in the way of classic spiritual food and drink.  But maybe we can turn this to our good
 
01:14:26 Anthony: and being one oriented to fixing social problems, this negative world tone affected my spiritual life.
 
01:17:06 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:55 keynote: Thank you Fr.!!
 
01:18:02 Josie: thank you father
 
01:18:07 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:18:15 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night and God bless!
 
01:18:21 Sheila Applegate: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part III

The wisdom of the Fathers and the essential and fundamental elements of the spiritual life that they present us with is valuable beyond expression. Whether novices in the spiritual life or having struggled for many years, one is given a precious gift in reading the Evergetinos!
Synopsis: 
We picked up once again this evening with Hypothesis 20 on heeding the advice of the elders and the importance of revealing one’s thoughts without embarrassment or shame. How beautiful it is when an elder has such compassion and love (as well as patience) to help those in his charge to set before God all of their thoughts and sins. What a blessing it is when you have one who is willing to wait even years, assisting you in the spiritual life, helping you to trust ever more fully in the power of grace and in the depths of God’s mercy. The Evil One seeks to do nothing but undermine this trust in God and in one’s elder. Even when we are tortured by our sins or our thoughts and temptations we often remain silent; because the evil one convinces us how shameful such thoughts might be. The closer we get to speaking them the more he seeks to make us question the value of doing so. The father’s counsel on this is incredibly valuable. It reveals to us the wisdom of God and how it overcomes the cunning of the Evil One.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:18:25 Josie: When we have thoughts that we don't identify with the “inner self” or “inner man” but rather as false self, are we meant to 1) engage them in order to dismantle them at the root and deal with what part of us causes or wants to believe them, OR alternatively 2) do we simply ignore them/reject them as false and just re-center ourselves?
 
00:21:25 Tyler Woloshyn: This brings to mind the Psalmist when he speaks about in Psalm 136 (LXX) to deal with those sins, passions, vices by dashing them against the rock. To dash them against the Rock of Christ early on rather than much later.
 
00:23:27 Tyler Woloshyn: (I know it is a controversial psalm, but blessed are the monastics for explaining the meaning behind that psalm.)
 
00:34:15 Tyler Woloshyn: This story is very interesting when someone is held by passions, but how can one relate to those to struggle with scrupulosity in their confession?
 
00:45:04 Josie: it's ok you answered thank u
 
00:49:17 iPad (10)maureen: Is it much like Doctor ? You can have a cancer and not Know it.
 
00:49:49 iPad (10)maureen: The earlier one find a hidden illness you can recover.
 
00:52:55 Rachel: I can top that but in my humility will refrain
 
00:56:09 Anthony: These elders - are they experienced, mature Christians, or is Elder in these stories here the equivalent or presbyteros or sacerdotale - a priest?
 
00:57:01 Forrest Cavalier: The greek is Ό Γέρων
 
00:57:13 Forrest Cavalier: The old/wise one.
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Thanks, Forrest
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: That’s Greek to me.
 
00:57:19 Anthony: James
 
00:58:56 Anthony: Liberty University in the early 200's encouraged accountability partners and each dormitory hall had a supposedly mature student to be a spiritual leader
 
00:59:04 Anthony: 2000s
 
01:01:06 Rachel: I bought that book but have not read it!
 
01:01:29 iPad (10)maureen: Name of the book ?
 
01:01:29 Josie: me 2
 
01:01:41 Ren: A question about confession: In a situation where a certain sin has really taken root, and one finds it difficult even to resolve to try and amend one’s behavior,  perhaps even resistant to change, what recourse does one have? The thought comes to my mind that is is sacrilegious to go to confession not hoping or firmly intending to change, but it you can’t go to confession, what can you do? Are you just a lost cause?
 
01:02:49 Debra: Wouldn't going to confession provide the graces to help make that change?
 
01:04:10 Lilly: Orthodox Psychotherapy -author?
 
01:04:36 Anthony: Ren, I think Nietzsche actually has an important thing to say here - exert the will - not to power, but for our good. ;)
 
01:04:51 Sawyer: Confessing that lack of desire to change can sometimes bring great grace in itself.
 
01:07:14 Anthony: Lilly: https://store.ancientfaith.com/orthodox-psychotherapy
 
01:07:29 Lilly: Thank you
 
01:08:50 Forrest Cavalier: Psalm 22
 
01:09:05 Forrest Cavalier: My God why have you abandoned me
 
01:10:30 Anthony: Well FOrrest threw it out in a Cavalier manner. ;^)
 
01:11:10 Josie: seems God is always several steps ahead of us and there is always some level of darkness in the spiritual ;ife i think..
 
01:13:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Glad you became yourself again.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part II

In our reading of the Evergetinos, we picked up with Hypothesis 20 “On Obedience and Listening to the Advice of Elders.”  We are presented with the story of one monk, Iakovos, who was filled with impertinence and sought to place himself above others as a spiritual guide; this despite his lacking the fruit or obedience in his own life. The darkness and the trials of this monk grow deeper and deeper. The more resistant that he is to the guidance of others the more that the spirit of darkness takes hold of him. Then, in his moment of greatest weakness, the Enemy attacks him in such a way that he is overcome with a flood sinful thoughts. Taking matters into his own hands, rather than humbling himself before his Elder or before God, he mutilates himself. It is only the meekness and the compassion of the Elder that aids this monk in his darkness. Saint Savvas was able to apply a healing balm on every occasion of disobedience. Over and over again he applies the necessary remedy and offers intercession on behalf of his spiritual child. 
The vivid imagery in this Hypothesis is meant to draw us into a deeper and more rich understanding of obedience and its importance for the spiritual life. Our willfulness can run so deep that we find ourselves wrapped in delusion. Left to ourselves we are capable of the worst. We can betray ourselves as well as God. May God in His mercy guide us along the path of repentance and give us the grace and healing of obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:55 Mark: Some snow later tonight in MN
 
00:08:33 Lilly: Hello Fr. Blessed to be back! Happy Easter everyone!
 
00:17:31 Tyler Woloshyn: This kind of reminds me of the career centric mentality that Pope Francis have warned clergy against. Clergy trying to obtain monsignor or mitred archpriest status.
 
00:35:44 Anthony: When you take aptitude tests, clergy is considered just another job for people who like to help people. But a religious vocation is different than a career.
 
00:41:14 Forrest Cavalier: He cried out to his neighbors too late.
 
00:42:20 Ren: Is Iakovos’ failure to reveal the thoughts to an elder, and his extreme action, another manifestation of arrogance?
 
00:43:54 Tyler Woloshyn: It seems very relevant as it shows what happens in those instances where people who say need accountability partners if you will do not have the courage to admit their weakness and seek help.
 
00:45:06 Josie: For our own days, is it advisable to admit these kinds of things in the confessional? (Even if sometimes this isn't exactly a confession of a sin but thoughts/temptations)
 
00:45:13 Anthony: Is the finalty of the mutilation the problem?  Other saints ran into thickets to hurt their bodies, and they are saints.
 
00:45:42 Forrest Cavalier: You quoted St. Philip Neri in the past: "In the warfare of the flesh, only cowards gain the victory; that is to say, those who fly."
 
00:46:41 Tyler Woloshyn: "Fly you fools." Gandalf.
 
00:47:28 Debra: Tyler, you are not the only 'nerd' lol
 
00:47:36 Ren: The nerds: Tyler, and everyone who got the joke :-D
 
00:48:48 Tyler Woloshyn: Glad that we are in good company. :)
 
00:50:34 Tyler Woloshyn: Post-Lenten shout out to the Life of St. Mary of Egypt.
 
00:50:38 Anthony: OK, is our goal then to walk about in life with a serene sould, and not be bothered by any temptation of body or mind, not distressing ourselves, but letting it pass?
 
00:54:07 Forrest Cavalier: There is a connection to obedience mentioned in this story: he did not obey the monastic rule against self mutilation.
 
01:05:05 Ren: On the topic of penance, I find that penance, among other things, is valuable in revealing that extent to which a true spirit of repentance as been fostered in the heart. When I embrace my penance and perform it soon after confession I am eager to apply spiritual medicine to my soul. Often, however, I am reluctant to accept penance, anxious about what the priest will give me, and am slow in performing it. Then, it is revealed to me that the spirit of repentance really hasn’t been fostered well in my heart
 
01:06:42 Forrest Cavalier: The consequences in this story were more lenient than the Old Testament law: Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly,e whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my namel that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
 
01:08:38 Tyler Woloshyn: I felt the part where St. Savvas mentioned to Iavokos that if he could not manage a pot of beans he could not manager a monastery. It is simple yet very enlightening.  God gives us so many graces and gifts, yet at times I know where I can do much better and not looking to throw out those pot of beans when frustration over life goals or discernment does not work out immediately.  Humility is a very wonderful thing.  Even the smallest of actions can be teaching moments.
 
01:10:36 Debra: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime
 
01:10:50 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
01:12:42 Ren: Iakovos does seem like a bit of a hopeless case. I wonder if his quick death after this last act of repentance was not an act of mercy on the part of the Lord. Take him out before he can screw up again
 
01:14:24 Tyler Woloshyn: Will never look at a pot of beans in the same way. Will think of St. Savvas from now on.  Especially going through a discernment process.
 
01:14:59 Anthony: I'd like to see us Catholics build on the theme of St. John Damascene, repentence is turning away from unnatural living and towards the life God intended for us.  That is a kind of repentence that I could more easily understand, instead of the "afflict yourself" meaning that is perennially popular among Catholics in different rites.
 
01:16:50 Erick Chastain: "but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection" 1 cor 9:27
 
01:19:35 Ashley Kaschl: It’s kinda long. Sorry 😂 I have thoughts.
 
01:19:38 Ashley Kaschl: Some of these holes Iakovos has dug himself, even to the severity of mutilating himself and being cast out of his community, are reminding me of the reflections of St. Bernard of Clairvaux on the Song of Songs, specifically the kisses prior to “let him kiss me with the kiss of his lips”, which to the angels and Saints seems to be an offensive desire. Like Iakovos wanting for more than he is currently trustworthy of. 
 
It is for this reason that St. Bernard goes into the prior kisses: namely the kiss of the feet of Christ. That Iakovos would have to humble himself under the instruction of Savvas, and return to the feet of Christ to kiss His wounds for the realization of the cost of his sins, and then extend his arm up, that Christ might draw him upwards so that he could eventually kiss his hands, entering into the life of virtue and friendship with Christ, hence the fruit of reparation.
 
01:24:15 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:38 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night everyone. God bless!
 

The Evergetinos -Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part I

This evening we started a new Hypothesis, number 20. The focus is on receiving the advice of the fathers and how important it is not to develop an individualistic approach to the spiritual life. Asceticism can very quickly become something of our own making. Whenever we are guided simply by our own judgment, spiritual practices can very easily lead us into pride. The longer that we are in such a state, the greater the danger of falling into delusion. One who thinks he is above the elders’ or anyone else’s judgment, he who seeks no one else’s counsel, will come to experience the greatest darkness. We are part of the living body of the Church and God has given us that which is most essential for our sanctity. Despite the darkness that we see within the world and sometimes see within the life of the Church, we do not want to lose sight of God‘s Providential care and the guidance of the Spirit. Nor do we want to lose sight of those God has put on our path to help support us and guide us. Such an attitude requires from us an openness to the guidance of the Spirit in our lives. Above all it requires humility. Our path as Christian men and women is distinctly the path of humility, the path of the cross, and so we must never be deluded to the extent that we place our own judgment above others.  In the end such an attitude will eventually lead us to place our judgment above God himself. From such a tragic darkness - we may never emerge.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:16:39 Anthony: Look at the history of Family Radio for a contemporary example.
 
00:18:33 John White: O felix culpa! O happy carbuncle!
 
00:18:52 carolnypaver: 🤣
 
00:22:20 Josie: you said that the reason he fell was because he did not listen to the fathers however we do not have fathers nowadays therefore we also have no one to listen to
 
00:29:11 Ambrose Little: We have have a great treasure trove of saintly writings to learn from and be disciples to—much more so than in the time of the early desert fathers—and to complement Scripture, and we also have our pastors, our bishops, who often provide contemporary guidance on things that are new and/or relevant to our time that may not have been so previously.  We also can have spiritual friends who can encourage us and build us up—many lay institutes, fraternities, and so forth, as well as less formal spiritual friendships.
 
00:29:54 Ren: God bless translators!
 
00:35:11 Ambrose Little: We also have this group! 🙂
 
00:35:32 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
00:35:53 Ren: Yes! And a Father with a very authoritative beard to listen to :-D
 
00:36:48 Carol Nypaver: “Abba David of the Beard”😇
 
00:37:47 Anthony: To modify something attributed to Padre Pio:  "If you think I would make a mistake, do you think God would?"  Go out with a good will, be determined to be pliable to God, try to exert right reason, be cheerful & hopeful; God will take care of you, lead you along, bring you to the right people (for your instruction and for you to help), even if not an "elder."  (And beware Jansenism, the scourge of 'traditional' Catholic spiritual formation, especially among French and Americans.  I like a priest-monk friend's praise of peasant spirituality; for me, it fits.)
 
00:37:56 Ambrose Little: He's amazing. I love all his stuff I've seen (Fr. Cantalamessa).
 
00:41:14 Anthony: yes
 
00:43:12 Josie: Anthony do you mean also not to overthink things?
 
00:43:26 Anthony: that's part of it, Josie
 
00:43:33 Bridget McGinley: As a wound care nurse, I have seen women come in that have sincerely regretted having breast augmentation procedures due to the consequences of complications and you can see and feel the mark of remorse in them for this vanity. This story about the wayward monk resonates with me because I have seen this exact thing that is written. How do we recognize pride of heart when there are so many paths both good and  bad? Like fasting and prayer life, how do we avoid excesses? How do we know (i.e. signs) that we are being balanced and humble in our spiritual life if we don't have that spiritual father to discuss the details of our lives to?
 
00:47:53 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father.
 
00:53:09 Anthony: Historically, Franciscans rescued Catholics in danger of falling into Catharism and Waledensianism.
 
01:01:55 Ambrose Little: It seems like we can lose sight of the Providence of God. We can focus on the lessening of a particular kind of spiritual guidance, or particular traditions and pious practices, or particular ways of celebrating the liturgy. But what is God giving us in place of them? How is God calling us to grow and live in our own day? What faith-filled friends has he put in our lives that we overlook or take for granted, who could help us grow? What might we be missing? Surely God is not leaving us without his gifts and the necessary helps we need to live our lives of faith? Are we insisting that God help us in the way we want rather than the way He wants? I think folks here in this group are taking advantage of one of the great gifts God is giving us today.
 
01:03:59 Rachel: LOL Yep
 
01:07:04 Ren: These stories prove so perfectly, via negativa, the teachings of the last hypothesis on obedience as the sure path to the virtues (that also protects us from pride). I frequently find myself formulating elaborate prayer rules, being very satisfied with them, and then failing miserably. So, the only thing I got out of it was an hour of pride. It seems that taking one’s spiritual life into one’s own hands is always a very dangerous way and that, unless under the instruction of a director, one should keep to the simple way of the church’s teachings, and its guidance concerning prayer. Nothing more. Nothing “creative”. The spiritual benefits will never outweigh the danger of pride. It reminds me of Philip Neri, and his disciple who insisted on keeping vigil and ended up harming himself permanently.
 
01:09:09 Ambrose Little: I personally prefer paleo prayer.
 
01:09:11 Eric Williams: Exodus 90 🙄
 
01:13:02 Rachel: Simple......lol ..oook
 
01:13:09 Anthony: Isn't my river in Syria a while much nicer than the dirty Jordan River?
 
01:13:26 Ambrose Little: Simple but not easy! 😄
 
01:13:57 Anthony: Master, if the prophet asked you to do something great, wouldn't you have done it?  So Naaman bathed in the simple, dirty Jordan and was a changed man
 
01:15:03 Ashley Kaschl: I think this individualism we were talking about can also lead to a touch of willful ignorance of certain areas of the faith within groups of people. I’ve encountered a lot of adults who cannot be roused to investigate potentially fruitful areas of the spiritual life because “it isn’t for them” or they “don’t want to go down that road.” There’s a sentiment of “I pray, I love God, and I’m faithful, and that’s good enough for me.” But I think that is a dangerous place to be in the spiritual life, because I don’t think we should ever be “content” with where we are. Individualistic faith seems to sometimes lead to mediocrity, which could also be a subtle symptom of pride; to cling covetously to the spiritual life we’ve “made” for ourselves.
 
01:17:06 Josie: does anyone know a good online bible study?...
 
01:17:31 Ambrose Little: Fr. Mike's Bible in a Year is great from everyone I know who’s done/doing it.
 
01:17:54 Josie: thank you, but i meant i group like this one..?
 
01:20:15 Ambrose Little: or only pay attention to the bits that agree with what we already think!
 
01:21:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
Forrest Cavalier:
I wanted to share a connection I made to Hypothesis 20. The topic summary for Hypothesis 20 is in the 1783 edition in greek, translated as"That no man should trust in himself for anything, but should listen to the counsel of the fathers in all things, and should confess the secrets of his heart without concealing anything."
But it seems to me that the first few stories are monks cutting themselves off from the goodness of community. And some of it can seem very brutal and harsh, and that is why I am writing.
I was also reading this week St. John Chrysostom Homily 12 on Acts. (Next Sunday the reading from Acts is immediately after the story of Ananias and Sapphira. I wondered about Peter's shadow, and the homily covers both stories in Acts and shows that they are integrally connected.)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210112.htm
I think the ideas in Homily 12 are connected to the stories at the start of Hypothesis 20, and I found this accidentally. We in the modern church do not have too many experiences of people being cast out of community, and maybe we even have frustration that more people are not cast out. But we want it to be medicinal. We want people to be forgiven and reconciled and rejoined into community.
As I read the first parts of Hypothesis 20, my gut reaction is difficulty in seeing the stories as being a good model of community discipline.
But then I happened to read Homily 12, which makes a strong argument that it is not extreme that prideful people are cut off from goodness, and that their wounding of the community is partially healed by casting them out. Homily 12 says that there was a superabundance of grace in the community after Ananias and Sapphira were cut off from the land of the living, and there would have been no benefit to let them live longer than they did. That's harsh! Yet, the superabundance included even Peter's shadow being salvific, which Homily 12 says was a sign greater than what Christ himself performed, a partial fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the greater signs they would perform in his name!
And then when I went searching for "pride" in scripture, I found many other Bible passages with similar harsh consequences for being so prideful. (I found these with my search tool, and selected some of them. I included the Mt 25:21 because of the story about the pot of beans, which I think you probably will not get to read tonight, but maybe.)
Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly, whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment.
Prov 16:2 All one’s ways are pure* in one’s own eyes, but the measurer of motives is the LORD.
Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day.
Prov 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the LORD; be assured that none will go unpunished.
Prov 16:18 Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Mt 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’
1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part III

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 19 on the importance and value of obedience. I think it is safe to say that this is some of the most beautiful writing on the subject - one can only imagine because it arises out of deep experience. 
Obedience is presented to us not as a kind of slavishness or something that leads to the crushing of the personality. Nor is it something that is infantilizing. What we find in the Fathers is just the opposite. Obedience is the prime good that we are to acquire because it casts out pride and it creates humility within the heart. Christ loved obedience because he loved the Father. It is in his incarnation that he was, by providence, obedient to his heavenly Father unto the cross and death. He obeyed the Father in love even though he was in no way inferior in greatness and dignity. 
Obedience and love are intimately tied together. Divine love is vulnerable. And nowhere is this seen more fully than in Christ giving himself over to the Father’s will without question. 
Such obedience also brings us healing and freedom from the danger of falling into delusion. Protected from pride, we never see ourselves and our lives as abstracted from God and his will for us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:33 David Fraley: I always have snacks!
 
00:10:42 Anthony: "City a Desert" on YouTube is how I found him.
 
00:13:54 Debra: I didn't get any email today, regarding the commenting
 
00:24:02 Mark: Sorry… incredibly distracted on my end… what page are we on?
 
00:24:14 Anthony: 146
 
00:24:34 Mark: Thanks
 
00:32:21 Anthony: So this is what fundamentally makes our anthropology different than the Cathars.  They make ascetism a mere act of will.  We realize we have disjointed psychology that must be put aright.  And that is by grace and synergy of the will with grace we reorganize the soul/mind/body.  And this synergy is individual and communal.
 
00:37:56 Mitchell Hunt: I saw that. Very profound. Quote was from Elder Aimilianos
 
00:42:02 Ren: Didn’t one of the Fathers we read even talk about revealing ones thoughts to ones angel? It might have been in the context of the hermits, and I think they were able to see their angel, but I think it is still a lovely thought that could apply.
 
00:54:42 Anthony: I think that is a sentiment shared by Seneca the Stoic.
 
01:06:21 Ren: This paragraph really serves as the proof of the hypothesis: Obedience is most valuable because it defeats pride, and gives birth to humility and love of God - all without the danger of delusion. Amazing. Also helps to explain why the chapter on obedience is the longest chapter in the Ladder. Strange that the only time we really talk about obedience in the life of the church is little kids doing what mom and dad say.
 
01:11:16 Anthony: My discipline is political philosophy. Since the Reformation, and especially the American Revolution, we have a worldview of opposition and "I have the truth, I will separate from you."  This is immature and selfish and even Marxist, looking at life through a framework of parties being in perpetual opposition.  But classical political philosophy has a worldview based on love, friendship, patronage, "the ties that bind."  That is the Classical worldview upon which our Catholic ethics are based.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part II

Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained. 
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand. 
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that is rooted in the desire to please and serve the other. It is rooted in trust and shaped by self-sacrifice. May we never complicate it so as to make it unrecognizable. Within it is the power to redeem even what seems lost in our families, in our communities, and in life as a whole. It carries within it to seed of divine love that can reshape everything; even that which seems impossible to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:32 Lyle: Looking forward to another evening where someone may decisively, yet lovingly, dismantle erroneous ecclesiology for those of us catechumens.
 
00:19:55 Anthony: I'm guessing it was a fig branch or twig.  That's one way to propagate figs.  In year three, you get figs.
 
00:21:51 Ambrose: 1 John 2:3-5 ‘And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.’
 
00:22:18 Ambrose: John 14:15 ‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments.’
 
00:28:35 Anthony: This has implications for laity in problem parishes and dioceses and clergy under bishops with issues.
 
00:28:52 Anthony: Also had political implications against revolutions.
 
00:42:07 Ren: How does one reclaim the spirit of obedience once it has been lost? Once you have let resentment and even contempt of a particular authority figure to establish itself?
 
00:42:33 Jos: this was my question too but on the level of family/ generations
 
00:44:34 Ambrose: This one got me this morning. From lauds intercessions: Forgive us for failing to see Christ in the poor, the distressed and the troublesome, and for our failure to reverence your Son in their persons.   (particularly the "troublesome" part)
 
00:45:22 Carol Nypaver: Amen, Ambrose.
 
00:45:43 Anthony: We find our identity in the wrong.  Yeah, that's not healthy.
 
00:46:37 Ambrose: and not "sharing" it in social media
 
00:46:59 Jos: sorry I can't unmute
 
00:47:23 Carol Nypaver: Can you type it, Jos?
 
00:48:40 Jos: I wanted to ask about whether when one is born into a culture/ family structure and many generations that is filled with this pattern of resentment, lack of obedience etc, if it is then even possible to really change without enormous amounts of effort.
 
00:49:22 Lyle: Fr. David, I‘ve always appreciated the way you and some other spiritual directors continually point us to the Lord Jesus as our ultimate ex