Season 6

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXV, Part VI and XXVI, Part I

Once again, we find ourselves in the midst of the laboratory of the desert and watching the Fathers’ struggle with the passions, in particular the passion of fornication or lust. The beauty in this, of course, is that we are placed in the privileged position of seeing their struggle from the inside; dealing with both the passion and also learning how to engage in the ascetic life in a measured fashion.
It is made clear that we are to struggle with our whole being and to be fully engaged in the battle. On a physical level, this means restraining our appetites. We hear that the monks understood that they must not give themselves over to satiation in regard to bodily appetites. They must humble the mind and body in order that they might cling more to God in their prayer and trust in his grace. This meant, of course, the experience of privation; but it also opened them up to the richness of the interior life and the depth of prayer. Therefore, it was not just an act of endurance but also an expression of hope in God and his promises. More importantly we might say it is an expression of love. We are willing to make great sacrifices for the things that we hold to be precious. When we love God and the things of God, when we love virtue and prayer, we will do all in our power to attain it and maintain it.
With hypothesis 26, we begin to see the fruit of their long experience in the ascetic life. They could see that they often emphasized the wrong thing in the spiritual battle or became unmeasured in their disciplines to the point of losing sight of God. One can become so fixated on overcoming a particular passion or fighting with the thoughts of the demons, that they fall into pride by failing to emphasize the one thing alone that can overcome the demons, as well as draw the natural into the supernatural; that is, the grace of God. To say that Christianity is an ascetical religion is not to say that the discipline of such a life and the exercise of our faith is an end in itself. The end of our striving is love and and theosis – intimacy, union, with the triune God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:13:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:21:05 Adam Paige: “A clear rule for self-control handed down by the Fathers is this: stop eating while still hungry and do not continue until you are satisfied.” - St John Cassian, On the Eight Vices
00:21:43 paul g.: Reacted to "“A clear rule for se…" with ✔️
00:21:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thanks, Adam.
00:21:50 paul g.: Reacted to "P. 184, # 12" with ✔️
00:21:52 Phil: Modern medicine also says humans need 12 serving of carbs a day and half as much dairy. Bless their heart, they are trying! ... "Lord forgive them, for they know not what they do!"
00:23:30 Myles Davidson: Because people need differing amounts of sleep or food, what would you say is the thing we should be looking out for, to know we are getting the right amounts of both. Is it a clarity of mind and attention in prayer? Anything else?
00:26:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks, Adam." with 👍
00:28:49 Andres Oropeza: Is it always a bad thing to derive comfort from food? I mean a hot meal is preferable to a cold one during winter especially. Or a hot drink really sets you at ease after being outside in the cold. Should we shun the comfort and just eat cold meals and drink cold drinks (or hot if the drink isn’t good hot). Or is the comfort only an issue when it becomes the point of eating?
00:30:48 Myles Davidson: There have been plenty of studies done on rats that reducing caloric intake extends life.
00:31:21 Adam Paige: “Stand at the brink of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it anymore, draw back a little, and have a cup of tea.” - Saint Sophrony Sakharov
00:36:03 Carol Roper: it seems like the issue is longing. to what do we direct our longing. Advent strikes me as a season of longing.
00:40:16 Myles Davidson: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer
00:40:37 Adam Paige: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer Father Archimandrite Ilie Cleopa
00:40:42 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "@Phil What was the n..." with 🙏
00:44:04 Liz D: Reacted to "it seems like the ..." with ❤️
00:48:09 Phil: Yea, Ramana died in middle age, but his extreme fasting (starting in his teenage years) does seem to have shortened his life.
00:49:12 Phil: Replying to "@Phil What was the n..." 
 Yes, I believe that is him!
00:49:38 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, I believe that ..." with 👍
00:50:26 Phil: Yes, there are at least a half dozen videos on YouTube of Cleopa himself giving spiritual advice.
00:50:58 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, there are at le..." with 👍
01:03:20 Adam Paige: The Struggle with God - Paul Evdokimov (PDF) https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
01:03:24 Phil: "The mystics are a law unto themselves." Fr. Anthony De Mello.
01:03:56 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "The Struggle with Go..." with 👍
01:06:07 Adam Paige: “It behooves us as well to destroy the sinners in our land-namely, our fleshly feelings-on the morning of their birth, as they emerge, and, while they are still young, to dash the children of Babylon against the rock. Unless they are killed at a very tender age they will, with our acquiescence, rise up to our harm as stronger adults, and they will certainly not be overcome without great pain and effort.” St John Cassian, The Institutes (6th Book: The Spirit of Fornication)
01:16:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:17:15 Phil: LOL, that's great! Thank you, Father.
01:18:05 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:18:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:18:13 Aric B: Thank you Father!

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXV, Part V

We were taken very deep this evening; not only into our understanding of the passion of lust or fornication, but also deep into the human mind and heart and how they function. The anthropology of the Desert Fathers was astute and profound. Despite residing in the desert, far removed from converse with both men and women, they knew the nature of the human person very well. We are sexual beings; that is, our sexuality is part of the experience of ourselves within the reality of this world and in our relationships with others. We relate to others in and through our sexuality; not consciously but simply as part of the reality the shapes are perceptions. This in turn shapes are imagination and understanding - again in ways that we often do not perceive. 
The Fathers teach us to keep this in mind in regard to the spiritual struggles that we have surrounding our appetites, in particular sensuality. These natural human appetites are very powerful and shapes us in both conscious and unconscious ways. 
Furthermore, these realities are not unknown to the demons. They are relentless and crafty in how they try to divert the mind and the heart away from God. We were given a couple of interesting stories this evening about young boys who came to the monastery as children having never experienced or seen a woman. Yet, in both accounts, they find themselves either overwhelmed by the thoughts associated with this particular passion or having such thoughts manifest themselves in their dreams. 
How is this possible one might wonder? Well at least it tells us why we must be vigilant and watch all of the movements of our minds and our hearts and what we expose ourselves to on a day-to-day basis. But it also tells us that the influence can be far more subtle than we imagine, and that we can be moved simply by the natural desire itself or by demonic provocation. The demons through the words and actions of others, or through our subtle observations of the world around us, can influence the turn of our minds to the things that take hold of the are imagination. Of course, this can be completely benign. Yet it will be used against us in the spiritual battle. Therefore, if we wonder why the Fathers emphasize the necessity of such intense vigilance and the humbling of the mind and the body through prayer and fasting, we begin to see that it is because they had no superficial understanding of the human person. They understood this realities better than we do in our own day; the mystery of the human person, the forces at work within us, the contradictions that we bear within our own minds and how we can even be drawn to things that are clearly destructive. Therefore, in an unvarnished fashion, they make it clear to us that we must create a new habit of mind, a habit of virtue. Our hearts must become attached to the Lord and the Lord alone if we desire to know the holiness and freedom that he makes possible for us. What they speak of is beautiful beyond measure - a life caught up in the eternal love of Christ. Will we seek it out for ourselves?
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:01:40 Phil: Fr. who is the cloacked figure in the icon over your left shoulder?
 
00:02:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9
 
00:03:39 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac
the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 .
 
00:05:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9
 
00:17:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” was published in 2011
 
00:19:13 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“The Ascetical Homil..." with 👍
 
00:28:32 Anthony: It could also be that these particular women were clandestinely visiting, and the child saw them in drowsiness. 
 
00:37:07 Lisa: Does a person need a spiritual director (or other such person) to help with the healing of the imagination and memories?  Or does the person simply ask the Lord in prayer?
 
00:51:27 Anthony: Well, even Heaven is not the final goal. It's a partway point to the more perfect cohabitation and collaboration with God and men. Like this, a monastic life isn't the resting place either.
 
01:05:35 Vanessa: Thank you, Father.
 
01:05:39 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you  Father
 
01:06:28 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXV, Part IV

We continued our reflection upon the fathers’ writing on fornication and the passion of lust. What becomes immediately clear is how much they prized this virtue and how important they saw it for the spiritual life as a whole. Purity of heart has always been connected, rightly wrongly, with purity on the level of sensuality. The fact that the fathers valued it so greatly also led them into a kind of fierce ascetic battle to attain it. At times they could fall into extremes and excess - leading to a weakening of the body almost to the point of death. They had to learn that the disciplining of the body through fasting, vigils and prayer is only part of the struggle. The more important element is relying upon the grace of God and trusting in him in the midst of the spiritual warfare.
One of the things that have made this battle with fornication so difficult is the shame that is often associated with it; not only with the physical act itself, but the relentless thoughts that often afflict an individual. This shame often creates an internal agitation and anxiety that makes a person more vulnerable to seeking immediate physical relief. Shame also has led asceticism to be used as a defense mechanism, causing many to repress the desires that they have rather than allowing them to be transformed by the grace of God and by a growing attachment to and love for him.  Inevitably such repression will break down and the same desires will manifest themselves in an even stronger fashion. It is for this reason that the demons become the greatest accuser of one who has fallen into this particular sin. He knows that if he can lead them into despair and get them to give up on the hope for healing, he will be able to dismantle their spiritual life.
Patience, endurance, the willingness to bear affliction without making concessions to the thoughts that afflict us – this is the path forward. Paired with clinging to the grace of God and the strength that comes through the holy sacraments, the disordered attachments begin to diminish. The fathers eventually discovered, as we have already seen, that it is important to avoid excess. If we are ruthless with ourselves, we can we can weaken ourselves not only physically, but also in terms of our resolve. Quite simply a person can grow so tired that they want to give up.
We must always keep before our eyes, then, the heavenly bridegroom and the understanding that we wage the spiritual warfare, not in isolation, but surrounded by all the angels in the Saints. And even if we are to fall every single day, St. John Climacus tells us, and yet turn to God in repentance our guardian angel looks upon us with joy. 
May God give us all not only the resolve to remain in the battle but an invincible hope in his grace and mercy.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Cindy Moran: I studied 3 years with Dr Muto & Fr, Adrian
 
00:15:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 181, # 4
 
00:15:28 Anna Lalonde: I'm interested in Spiritual Formation if you can share
connections at some point.
 
00:15:39 Cindy Moran: ok!
 
00:32:08 santiagobua: We can start recieving after we bend the knee to the Lord, not before
 
00:32:55 Anna Lalonde: Humility and Holy Eucharist brings upon Chastity. Is that right?
 
00:33:54 Anthony: It would be helpful for a person in a moment of any moral suffering to distinguish actual sin from "spiritual warfare."
 
00:34:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes
 
00:58:42 Anthony: The image for me is a starfish opening a clam.  The clam tries as hard as it can to stay shut. The starfish wants to enter, and (I'm mixing metaphors), stick a knife in between the shells to cut off the victim from God and the land of the living.  That, for me, is the pure fear, of being cut off from hope and God.
 
01:08:53 Forrest Cavalier: This story #8 shows a wisdom in using the natural reactions of the physical body to abhor the sin for how deadly it is. It looks like good Pavlovian psychology.
 
01:11:55 Sheila: Salvation Army
 
01:14:09 Una: Is that Jack Sparks?
 
01:14:45 Una: Victory in the Unseen Warfare (red cover)
 
01:15:03 Una: Also Virtue in the Unseen Warfare (green cover)
 
01:15:09 Una: Fr. Jack Sparks
 
01:15:18 Rod Castillo: I’ve read it but in Spanish
 
01:16:40 Lilly: Thank you Father
 
01:17:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:23 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️
 
01:17:28 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:28 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:28 Serene Lai: THank you Father!
 
01:17:37 Janine: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:51 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXV, Part III

Both in the stories that we are told from the lives of the fathers and from the particular teachings that they offer their spiritual sons, we begin to get into the nitty-gritty of the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. Again what we are presented with is the fierceness of the battle. Part of the reason for this is that the soul has implanted in it by nature a proclivity towards certain pleasures. Saint Anthony the great tells us that it does not act, however, without the heart so desiring. Desire as we’ve so often discussed is essential in the spiritual life. We have a keen sense of our lack and incompleteness outside of God. In this sense, all of our desires as human beings are reflection of our great desire for God and for what He alone can satisfy. 
This proclivity towards certain pleasures can begin to take hold of the soul when we are over-attentive to nourishing our bodies with food and drink. In our tendency towards excess our hearts can be taken over by the desire for fleshly pleasure. 
When we find ourselves repeatedly seeking out pleasures as an end in themselves then we become vulnerable to the provocation of the demons due to their envy. They can try to stir up the fleshly desires in order to distract us from the things of God and the remembrance of God. 
It is so important for us who struggle in the spiritual life to know well the difference between these sources of our proclivity toward sensuality. We cannot allow ourselves to be ignorant of their causes and the many ways that they manifest themselves. We must learn how to confront our temptations as well as to embrace the remedies that the fathers put before us.
It is important for us to understand that much of the spiritual battle plays itself out on a psychological level and the means of warfare begins with the thoughts. When we lack watchfulness and allow ourselves to daydream and entertain every kind of thought and image, we find that our memory and our imagination become the holding place of so many things that come back to afflict us in the spiritual battle.
Therefore, we will discover in the coming months that such a spiritual battle is only won through the grace of God and constant of prayer. The spiritual life is not about endurance but rather humility. We engage in the ascetical life because we know our poverty. We must exercise our faith to the fullest extent in order that God’s grace might bear the greatest fruit possible within our hearts.
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:36:02 Kate : I recently read a quote, “The avaricious soul is one for whom God is not enough.”  It made me wonder if this could be applied to any of the passions…gluttony, lust, etc.
 
00:41:06 Nypaver Clan: Film cameras = analog photography
 
00:41:12 Una: The lust of the eyes = images
 
00:41:46 sharonfisher: I think so true, and ‘middle’ class needs to best of these things to feel like they’re keeping up. It shouldn’t be so. It makes  it hard for a family to afford life.
 
00:42:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "The lust of the eyes..." with ❤️
 
00:43:20 Anna Lalonde: Blue light and other things are dangerous in the neurology and psychology of children. It damages their brains.
 
00:43:35 sharonfisher: Replying to "I think so true, and..."
 
Thanks for your corrections!
 
00:48:18 Anthony: I think the shock of any vile thought (lust, avarice, blasphemy) that spontaneously arise in the mind causes grief.
 
00:49:26 Anthony: In the Philokalia I appreciate a father emphasizing Deliberation in something being a free act of will.
 
00:52:38 Una: I don't understand what these blasphemous thoughts are
 
01:03:39 Rebecca Thérèse: When I worked in mental health I found that often when women had been abused from a young age, they often didn't understand that they had the right to say no. People who are used to having no control over their bodies find it almost impossible to set appropriate boundaries even simply relating to their own desires. It's easy to be judgemental of people's relationships if we don't understand what's underlying the decisions that they make.
 
01:03:50 Myles Davidson: UFC
 
01:03:50 Francisco Ingham: mma
 
01:04:14 Una: Gladiator movies!
 
01:04:35 Wayne: Reacted to "When I worked in men..." with 👍
 
01:06:00 Anthony: I STILL love baseball games on AM radio. :)
 
01:11:41 Anthony: Another thing that caused shock and grief is forgetting we have the sneaky bodies enemies who attack psychologically, not like people or beasts.
 
01:12:58 Una: Reacted to "When I worked in m..." with 👍
 
01:15:18 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father Blessing
 
01:15:38 Lisa: Reacted to "Thank You Father Ble..." with 👍
 
01:16:45 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:16:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:01 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:22 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 
01:17:24 Francisco Ingham: This is wonderful Father, thank you for this place of spiritual rest
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

Tonight once again we are immersed in the struggle for purity of heart and the avoidance of its opposite in action, fornication. We are presented, of course, with heroic examples of those who embodied this virtue. Yet the most powerful thing that stands out both in the examples and the writings of the fathers is their understanding of Eros being conquered by Divine Eros; that is, our attachment to the things of this world and are very selves overcome by a greater love - the love of God for us. 
When we begin to see and taste this love within our day-to-day life, and when we experience a greater measure of freedom through the ascetic life, that Divine love begins to grow within us and we find ourselves running with a swiftness aided by the grace of God. 
Love is always the more powerful motivator and there is nothing more powerful than to experience the love of the one who created us in His own image and likeness. He alone can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart. Once we begin to let go of the illusion that this world places before us - the illusion that it can provide for all of us are pleasures; and once the grace of God begins also to purify the memory, we begin to experience the invincible joy, peace, and humility of the kingdom. 
As long as we are in this world, we all always find ourselves embattled. Therefore, the fathers tell us to cry out like David in the psalms: “Deliver me, O my joy, from them that have compassed me about.“ At that moment, we will always find ourselves in the hands of the living God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy Birthday Joshua
 
00:21:38 Anthony: Sounds like St Augustine in City of God regarding virgins who jumped off buildings for fear of rape by Vandals.
 
00:22:33 Anthony: Maria goretti
 
00:32:00 Myles Davidson: Committing oneself to an Adoration time outside of normal sleep time can be a great way to get used to combatting the need to sleep.
 
00:45:12 Wayne: Its interesting that the protestant tradition don't have the crucified Christ on the cross. There is focus on the resurrection but forget about Good Friday.
 
00:55:26 Forrest Cavalier: Some terms I have come across to describe the non-sacrificial, non-repentance approach to Christianity are "Moralistic therapeutic deism" and "cheap grace"
 
00:59:04 Rebecca Thérèse: If John Lennon's "Imagine" came true that would be world communism.
 
01:07:45 Anthony: Also, iconographers and musicians and poets who give us a vision to hope for.  Something that reaches us outside of reason for an irrational world.
 
01:14:29 Anna Lalonde: I do vigils, it's grown through desert Father's training me.
 
01:14:40 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍
 
01:14:48 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍
 
01:15:00 Erick Chastain: Reacted to I do vigils, it's gr... with "👍"
 
01:16:11 Myles Davidson: I’ve taken to sometimes when I wake in the middle of the night, getting up for an hour of praying the Jesus Prayer, then going back to sleep. The stillness of the night and the mind make it very special
 
01:16:36 Wayne: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍
 
01:16:46 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti…" with 👍
 
01:17:24 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍
 
01:18:45 Anna Lalonde: I'm a spiritual director of Latin and East and a Catholic Coach.
 
01:20:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You to Father and all who are here
 
01:20:51 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:20:56 Santiago Búa: Thank you Father
 
01:20:56 Macarena Olsen: Thank you!
 
01:20:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:13 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Thank You to Father ..." with ❤️
 
01:21:21 Erick Chastain: Thank you!!
 
01:21:48 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father!!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXIV, Part II & XXV, Part I

Why is it that we engage in the ascetic life and the spiritual life as a whole?  How is it that we come to understand the extreme practices of the desert fathers as they entered into the struggle with the passions? Seemingly they were willing to do almost anything to overcome temptation and to suffer extreme disciplines, punishing the body, until the passions were overcome.Again, we must understand that the desert was a laboratory. The fathers were driven there by their desire to live for God and to live for Him completely. Of course, they entered into these exercises with an imperfect understanding. Yet, in reading the Evergetinos we are blessed to see the development of their understanding and practice; how it becomes more measured and more focused upon God and the grace he provides.Beyond this, however, they were engaging in this way of life not simply in the pursuit of certain principles. Nor were they seeking to overcome their natural flaws and defects. They understood the struggle was also with demonic provocation. Therefore, they were not simply trying to foster good habits or to acquire a taste for that which was more virtuous. They understood that the spiritual life involved a bloody warfare against evil. The shadow of the Cross always falls over our struggles and stands as a reminder of the costs of sin. To overcome sin and its consequence, Christ sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane and was obedient unto death on the cross. The spiritual life is formed and shaped by the Paschal Mystery. It involves always a dying to self and rising to new life in Christ. To strip it of this understanding is to make our spiritual life and practices impotent. We are to be conformed to Christ in every way. We preached Jesus Christ and him crucified not only in words, but in our day-to-day struggle against sin and the passions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 172, # C
 
00:22:42 Myles Davidson: What’s the difference between an oath and say, a general intention to do something?
 
00:24:43 Kate : What about resolutions that we make for a penitential time, such as Lenten resolutions or Advent resolutions?   Is this a good practice according to the Fathers?
 
00:26:58 Forrest Cavalier: And all of these rely on God's grace for success. not our will alone.
 
00:37:38 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that?
 
00:38:25 Myles Davidson: Today is the beginning of St Martins Lent so to finish this now has been good timing
 
00:40:39 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that?
 
00:42:05 Myles Davidson: I’ve been eating less meat meals and find a definite increase in nepsis and general ability to concentrate in my prayer
 
00:43:18 Wayne: I think you you eat to much surgar etc you get highs and low  from it..
 
00:44:33 Sheila: It's a true challenge to avoid all the desserts because it seems these days people start Christmas festivities as soon as Thanksgiving ends, or in the case of many around me at school...now.
 
00:44:55 Sheila: Secular Christmas is all around.
 
00:47:16 Kate : And there are so many different diets now that encourage us to fixate on certain types of foods…keto, carnivore, longevity diets, etc. etc.  There might be some health benefits to them, but they can become intense distractions.
 
00:48:22 Anna Lalonde: Homeschooling... Everything then is centered in faith.
 
00:49:50 Anna Lalonde: There's so many resources and online live classes and tutoring we have less issues as homeschooling.
 
00:50:01 Anna Lalonde: Lol
 
01:01:14 Myles Davidson: Better to engage in the battle imperfectly than to not engage in it at all
 
01:18:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes that's what I do. Go to Jesus Prayer
 
01:19:12 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:16 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXIII, Part I

We have continued to make our way through the final few hypotheses about fasting and eating in general. What is gradually coming to light is that our relationship with Christ and our identity in Him is to form and fashion every aspect of our lives. This includes what we might consider the most mundane aspects of our life or what we take for granted, such as eating and common meals. 
What becomes perfectly clear in this hypothesis, however, is that there is a specific decorum that emerged in the practice of the fathers. The way that they looked at food and the way that they ate their common meals was all shaped by their greater commitment to the life of prayer and silence. The ascetical life shaped their actions and supported their pursuit of the ultimate goal. Thus eating, the quality of the food, the mannerisms at table and amount of food that other monks ate and the general behavior during meals all became important matters and subject to proper formation. 
The ideal was not to form a Christian gentleman, but rather to form a heart that was watchful at all times of the day and that was very much aware of the power of our most basic appetites. We see restraint being taught; that is, slowing oneself down at meals and not being driven by the pressure of hunger or the allure of delicious food. It is Christ the Bread of Life that one is always seeking and so the way that we approach our meals should be a reflection of how we approach the Lord in the Holy Mysteries. Our mindset, our sense of gratitude, the solemnity of our attitudes and behaviors are all reflection of our understanding of the connection with the Paschal Mystery. When we think of our own formation we must have this broad scope so that we do not treat our ascetic practices as ends in themselves. All that we do must be offered to God or it is wasted.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 165, #A
 
00:44:06 Una: LOL about the comment about men eating. And then they throw their silverware in the trash? Obviously, I've never been in a men's monastery. But how can we who are living in the world apply these standards to everyday dinners with family?
 
00:46:49 Una: I'm thinking of Thanksgiving Dinner where people gobble gobble gobble and aren't focused on God at all. Last year I had a hard time getting them to listen to the Prayer of St. Francis before the meal. Very secular family. How I personally may maintain my recollection yet still be social
 
00:47:50 Una: I find I can "go out" of myself so easily and get lost in socializing and talking (I'm an extravert) and then have difficulty becoming recollected again
 
01:03:42 Una: Is it true that the early Irish monasticism came from Egypt?
 
01:10:13 Una: There's a new book on this subject: Monastery and High Cross: The Forgotten Eastern Roots of Irish Christianity
 
01:10:20 Una: by Connie Marshner
 
01:10:34 Una: Sophia Institute Press
 
01:11:49 Steve: Good story
 
01:11:59 Una: Connie Marshner is a Melkite Green Catholic in Virginia
 
01:21:26 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:21:48 Troy Amaro: Thank you Father.
 
01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, sorry I was so late, our clocks went back an hour yesterday and I forgot about the time difference
 
01:24:18 ANDREW ADAMS: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene.
 
01:25:19 Adam Paige: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene.
https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy
 
01:25:44 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where does one find ..."
 
Thank you!
 
01:27:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: .. or https://frcharbelabernethy.substack.com/
 
01:28:16 Paul G.: Replying to ".. or https://frchar…"
+1
 
01:29:21 Maureen Cunningham: Thank  you
 
01:32:17 Maureen Cunningham: Wow
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXII, Part III

It’s important for us as we read the fathers and consider the discipline that they embraced regarding our appetites and desires that we do not demonize these realities or fall into extreme practices. At the heart of the fathers’ lives and teachings is desire; allowing the love of God and gratitude for his gifts to guide and direct their understanding of life and perception of reality. 
It is true that the desert was every bit the laboratory; the fathers often pushed themselves in extreme ways in order that their appetites and their desires for satisfaction and pleasure would lose their grip upon them. They were often harsh with themselves in ways that seem abhorrent to modern sensibilities. 
Yet they realized that these realities are very powerful parts of our humanity. The body, for example, through the ascetic life can be a powerful aid in our sanctification. However, if we approach our appetites in an unmeasured fashion, or in a way that is simply focused upon the self, then that which is most beautiful can be corrupted.
Thus, our own embrace of the ascetic life should be rooted in desire; our sense of lack and incompleteness outside of God. Our truest identity is established and found only in Him. Such a vision must be fostered from the earliest years of our lives. For it is not something that one can give or share with another. It comes only through experience. One comes to love the disciplines of which the father speak (fasting, prayer, vigils etc.) because they are far more than mere disciplines. They open up the path for us to experience the invincible joy and peace and freedom of the Kingdom. “Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:57 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 161, G
 
00:16:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "P. 161, G" with 👍
 
01:05:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: From Adam:
Adam Paige 5:14 PM
Should we avoid restaurants since they’re typically predicated on desirable food ? Or should we order a less appealing meal when we are at a restaurant ?
 
01:12:52 Cindy Moran: You aren't missing anything!
 
01:14:19 Adam Paige: Reacted to "You aren't missing a…" with 😂
 
01:19:42 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
 
01:19:55 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:59 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
 
01:20:11 Tracey Fredman: Glad you are feeling better, Fr. Charbel!
 
01:20:14 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 
01:20:21 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father!
 
01:20:39 Tracey Fredman: Liturgy of the Hours is one you mentioned one time. Is that a possibility for a topic?
 
01:20:47 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Liturgy of the Hours…" with ❤️
 
01:21:01 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father
 
01:21:19 Myles Davidson: Your Substack is excellent Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXII, Part II

It may seem surprising that the fathers spend so much time speaking about food and how we approach eating. Yet the needs of the flesh are very much a part of who we are as human beings. So how we eat and what we eat can affect what goes on internally. We can be subject to disorder or extremes in one fashion or another. 
What we see in the desert fathers and mothers is a love of fasting because they saw it as the insurer and foundation of the other virtues. In other words, when one can order an appetite and a desire towards what is good and specifically as tied to our hunger for God, then we are able to do so with other aspects of our humanity and our other appetites. Eating, being one of the most basic needs can lead us in one of two directions; either it is the gateway vice that opens us up to be more vulnerable to disordered appetites, or our restriction of our diet can turn us toward God who satisfies the deepest longings of the human heart.
The fathers examine the practice of eating from multiple perspectives. They had an acute sense of the subtlety with which the mind approaches such a practice. We can be hyper-focused upon the body and its needs. We can use illness as an excuse for slothfulness or to eat beyond our needs or what health demands. Likewise, we can become overly focused upon the quality of food and only want what is pleasing to the pallet or perfectly fresh. We lose sight of the fact that what we prize so much passes into the latrine. It may satisfy the pallet but it does not give rest to the soul.
The fathers also understood that we must give ourselves over to this practice without over-analyzing its value. Our tendency to pamper the body can make us and our consciences become callous and lead us down the path to hedonism. We lose sight of the fact that this appetite is incited by everything in the culture around us that has made food an idol. It has also made it a medicine in the sense that we turned to it to find solace and comfort. In a subtle way we are being taught to avoid affliction at any cost and to question the redeeming nature of the cross.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:54 Nick Bodmer: I had a question about the next work for the Wednesday group.  What is after the Ladder, and is there a recommend translation?
 
00:12:17 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 159, #B
 
00:12:40 Nick Bodmer: 👍
 
00:21:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: A good friend lost 20 pounds. His method: When I'm not hungry, I don't eat.
 
00:22:02 Myles Davidson: Do you have any advice for those of us who are very slim and with very little body fat but who want to increase our fasting practice? I’m finding it a real art-form and a balance that’s not easy to find.
 
00:25:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: Many find "Eat, Fast, Feast" a book by my friend, Jay Richards, very helpful. He looks at fasting for spiritual, fitness and dietary reasons; he says no one else had written such a book.
 
00:25:25 Forrest Cavalier: Hi Myles, I am low BMI myself. I discipline my fasting in order to not go below a target weight. For me 137 lbs. I do not eat breakfast. I do not eat snacks during Lent. I have to increase calories at some meals. Most of my fasting discipline is not calorie reduction, but not eating dairy or meat on Wednesday and Friday.
 
00:28:10 Nick Bodmer: This is why the medieval monks made beer 🤣
 
Maintains calories.
 
00:29:28 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is why the medi..." with 😃
 
00:36:23 Nikki: If someone is not lean after a decent time of fasting and self discipline with their eating, would that be an indicator they aren’t being disciplined enough to reach that deeper intimacy with the Lord?
 
00:39:40 Anthony: St Thomas Aquinas was so big they cut a hole in dining table fir him....so I've heard. Some people like Neapolitans can be big boned people.
 
00:41:58 Andrew Adams: cortisol
 
00:42:02 Nick Bodmer: Cortisol
 
00:42:51 Joseph: St. Athanasius described St. Anthony: “And they, when they saw him, wondered at the sight, for he had the same habit of body as before, and was neither fat, like a man without exercise, nor lean from fasting and striving with the demons, but he was just the same as they had known him before his retirement.”
 
00:46:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Our culture now promotes paying MORE money for LESS nutritional value, counting calories as a nutritional value.
 
00:52:28 Anthony: The news scares about food also contribute to our derangement
 
01:00:20 Anthony: Bloomin onion
 
01:05:06 Anthony: The marketers sell us on the things that cause problems and then sell us on the "remedies".....which cause more problems.  This is prophecy of Amos territory.
 
01:09:52 Nick Bodmer: Health is a good, but when we make it an ultimate good, and end in itself, it becomes an idol.
 
01:11:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Health is a good, bu..." with 👍
 
01:11:51 Bob Cihak, AZ: . As a recovering (retired) MD, I agree with Nick.
 
01:13:21 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XXI, and XXII, Part I

We continued this evening to delve more deeply into the fathers’ understanding of the practice of fasting. Once again we see that they learned from experience that it is better to eat once a day but not to the point of satiation. One must be measured and restrained in the practice, so is not to become weak and incapable of work or of fulfilling one’s prayer rule. 
We also began to see that there was variance in the practices embraced by various monks, both in terms of their diet and the amount they ate. The practice was not to pamper the body but also not to destroy it. The body is necessary in the spiritual battle. Thus one must be discerning in one’s spiritual practice and patient. 
We were also introduced this evening to the particular temptations that arise throughout the course of one’s spiritual life. Again, we must realize that we struggle not only with our own natural weaknesses and the weakness of our sin, but also with temptations and provocations that come to us from the Evil One. We are often tempted by what we see. We covet what appeals to the eyes and seems to promise enjoyment or satisfaction. We hear stories of the father’s catching themselves being tempted to break the rule of fasting. 
What is needed is humility. Fasting is a discipline and when we fail we are to humbly acknowledge it and confess it. We must never be tempted after having fallen to hide our failure or lie about it. It is then that we are truly in the grip of the father of lies and will be further led astray by even greater deception.
Finally, we were taught that there are certain passions that we must be willing to cut out of our life completely. There are certain things that have such a hold on our hearts and enslave our wills that there must be the courage and the willingness to remove it from our lives completely. We must always be willing to choose the better part and to sacrifice all for that pearl great price.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:41 David Fraley: Hello everyone! Thank you!
 
00:11:08 David Fraley: Thank you!
 
00:11:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 154 A
 
00:16:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 154 A
 
00:21:40 Anthony: Yeah, I multiplied devotion. It wasn't so great for me.
 
00:28:34 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?
 
00:29:11 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 156 C
 
00:33:21 Anthony: That bread isn't going to rise well like french bread.  It's either flatbread or pancakes. That's a basic sacrifice.
 
00:33:48 Vanessa: Replying to "That bread isn't goi..."
 
no yeast.
 
00:38:04 Sandra Whatley: "Silence is a place where the serpent can not go. It is a place as toxic to him as his environment is to us"
Father 7/23
 
00:39:09 Sandra Whatley: This is what Father told me in prayer
 
00:45:30 Nikki: The desert fathers approach fasting in different ways. How do we find out what we should do personally regarding approaching a limitation of food (choices & amount) along with heightened self-discipline, when over time the difficulties of continuing that level of intensity may have one think with all seriousness that they should start eating more/fast less? Concerned perhaps they are not eating enough and maybe
their bodies showing signs of this.
 
00:54:26 Nikki: Thank you
 
00:54:46 Kevin Burke: https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting/mode/2up
 
00:55:19 Kevin Burke: On-line version of the Book To Love Fasting
 
00:58:39 Nypaver Clan: Would it have made more sense to leave it for someone else than to waste it?
 
01:06:48 Nypaver Clan: There’s a reason the computer is “Apple.”
 
01:07:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "There’s a reason the..." with 😯
 
01:07:20 Nypaver Clan: The symbol is very telling….
 
01:09:41 Sheila: A large amount of tv shows out there are straight up porn but it's easy to make excuses that it's ok to watch...but let's be real...is it? Single, in a relationship or married, the toll it takes on yourself or the person you care about is so subtle..but it erodes away at real intimacy.
 
01:11:07 Sheila: Truth.
 
01:12:14 Una: I used to write Christian romances (clean romances, no sex scenes) but i gave it up because I felt it did harm to people's imaginations and spiritual life, setting up unreality. I think the Desert Fathers would have something to say about this!
 
01:13:10 Una: Movement toward Reality. Well said!
 
01:14:53 Anthony: Isaac came to my home today!
 
01:15:25 David Fraley: Thanks, Father! Have a great night!
 
01:15:26 Sandra Whatley: Thank you so very much.
 
01:15:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:53 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XIX, and XX

We continued our reading of the Evergetinos this evening with hypotheses 19 and 20. Once again we find ourselves considering the fathers’ teaching on eating and our use of food. Part of the reason they spend so much time on this subject is because they understand the meaning that food has for us as human beings and that it often goes well beyond that of nourishment. We come into this world and our first and earliest experience is that of being suckled; fed at the breast of our mother and thereby comforted. On a psychological level, food can continue to have this meaning. That is not necessarily something bad. There is a form of communion that we have with each other when we have a common meal. Indeed, this is why Christ gives himself to us as Eucharist. However, in our sin, the desire for food can be driven more by the emotional needs that we have in our day-to-day struggles. The fathers understood that the psychological reality affects us spiritually. 
Over and over again, we can turn to the things of this world to satisfy the longing of the human heart that God alone can fill. Christ is the Bread of Life and he alone can nourish us upon his love. Thus the fathers, especially those who entered into the desert, became acutely aware of the need to be watchful of this bodily hunger. When we lose our watchfulness or when we relax our disciplines, once again we can move towards satisfying ourselves through the things of this world. 
Food can become an idol. The monks understood that even in our religiosity we can be tempted to celebrate feasts in such a way that we cast aside all that was gained through fasting. What worth is it to fast 40 days of Lent then only to turn around and eat excessively for 50 days until Pentecost?
The fathers also identified another danger. Our religious sensibilities and identity can be just strong enough that they lead us to want to maintain the illusion of holiness and discipline. The fathers warn us about the temptation to secret eating. Hiding the truth from others as well as from oneself only prevents repentance. In order to hold on to the illusion and false image of the self, we can destroy ourselves spiritually.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 150
 
00:16:49 Lilly: Reacted to "P. 150" with ❤️
 
00:35:32 Forrest Cavalier: That earlier story was Evergetinos 11 in Volume 2.
 
00:39:02 iPhone: The YouTube channel is Athonite Audio. Audio books from the monks on Mount Athos
 
00:50:20 Forrest Cavalier: To know, love, serve in this life, and to be with him in the next
 
00:55:45 Ambrose Little, OP: Only the flamin hot ones, tho
 
01:07:16 Rebecca Thérèse: Is the real issue that the monk out of pride allowed people to think he was better than he was.
 
01:09:46 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: I too often judge myself based on some preconceived results or image of what I or someone else should look like. Whereas, it sounds like the fruit of the soil that are my circumstances and weakness and gifts. God told Paul, where you're weak I'm strong. God can hide me in his own way that bears fruits that aren't necessarily visible results.
 
01:12:43 Nypaver Clan: Thank you, Father!
 
01:12:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:13:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:30 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father.
 
01:13:33 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 
01:13:34 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XVIII, Part III

Synopsis of tonight’s group on the Evergetinos- Hypothesis 18 Sections H and I:
 
This evening we concluded hypothesis 18 with the clarity that only St. John Cassian can bring. Cassian, though as western monk, spent many years in Egypt among the desert fathers and was able to distill their thought with great clarity for the western mind as well as the western monk. He shows us what the practice, or as he says, the vast experience of the monks over the course of time offers us. They show us that we are to avoid extremes. Fasting is not to be extended over the course of many days because the immoderate practice of fasting leads to the immoderate break of the fast and over-eating. Fasting is to be embraced, not as an end in itself, but as a means to bringing about both internal and external stability to a confused and unruly life. There is only one hard and fast rule and that is not to eat to the point of satiation. In fact, we must understand the uniqueness of each individual in regard to their experience in the ascetic life and the strength of their constitution. Not everybody can restrain the amount of food they eat to the same extent. Nor can everyone live a strictly vegan diet.
 
Cassian also notes that illness does not come into conflict with purity of heart. It may demand that we lighten our discipline for the sake of the health of the body. But even here we should eat in moderation and whatever the illness demands without making ourselves slaves to the assaults of evil desires. “The moderate and logical use of food ensures the health of the body; it does not detract from holiness.” Once again the fathers prove themselves to be both spiritually and psychologically astute as well as having a clear understanding of the physiological needs that we have as human beings.
 
Fasting in many way is starting point for us and not only serves us in the struggle for purity of heart by humbling the mind and the body, but it also reveals to us that the spiritual life must involve the whole person. We begin with the basics and our most fundamental need – the need for sustenance. A confused mind is born out of disorder, and this brings confusion to the soul, and from that purity slowly disappears. Much of the turmoil that we experience in our life arises out of the loss of peace that comes from a disordered life. However, when this order emerges within us and we begin to taste something of the peace of Christ, then something is born within the human heart. The Fathers tells us that from the light of peace a pure wind blows through the mind. To the extent that the heart can draw near to wisdom, it receives grace from God. Thus fasting may not seem to be necessary or important in our generation, but for the fathers it lays the very foundation of a life that is caught up in Christ and transformed by his grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:53 Nicole Dillon: Hello everyone. Happy to be able to join tonite. Thank you 🙏🏼 🥰🕊️
 
00:10:46 Ambrose Little, OP: St. John’s Conferences were one of the few books
that St. Dominic kept and carried with him.
 
00:24:57 Wayne: Some may be Vegan?
 
00:25:26 Laura: Vegan - no animal products
 
00:25:34 Lilly (Toronto, CA): No animal products at all
 
00:25:50 Forrest Cavalier: There are also fruitarians.
 
00:25:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Vegans won't even eat honey
 
00:26:17 Lilly (Toronto, CA): I've been a nut for 12 years 😅
 
00:26:23 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Vegans won't even ea..." with 🙄
 
00:26:43 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "There are also fruit..." with 🙄
 
00:29:14 Anthony: When the Mongols became Christian,  they had a meat and milk diet.  They were advised by the "nestorian" bishop to abstain from fermented mare's milk.
 
00:36:04 Lilly (Toronto, CA): I've always wondered if God's plan for Adam and Eve was for humanity to be vegan? Did original sin bring about the killing of animals and need for such products?
 
00:36:50 Anthony: Reacted to I've always wondered... with "👍"
 
00:41:43 Nypaver Clan: Can a disordered life cause mental disorder or does the mental disorder usually come first, then the disordered life?
 
00:51:42 Wayne: Replying to "I've always wondered..."
 
I don't have the  scriptural verse in Genuis that suggest we should not be eating animal products
 
00:56:29 Rebecca Thérèse: When I worked in mental health over a decade ago, professionals completely adopted the secularist notions towards sexuality and sexual behaviour without even any understanding of different values in this area. For example, stating that a Muslim man would have hang ups around sex because of his religion. Also, a colleague was refused a job because in an interview he said he would advise a Muslim with same sex attraction to speak to a Muslim religious leader. He was told he failed the diversity question as this was the wrong answer since religious leaders are the most conservative of people. It's considered bad for mental health to observe traditional sexual morality.
 
00:58:36 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "When I worked in men..." with 😢
 
00:58:55 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Is there an actual scriptural verse in Genesis that can clarify my previous question?
 
00:59:25 Forrest Cavalier: Replying to "Is there an actual s..."
 
Gen 9:3
 
01:02:44 iPhone: I’ve been called a bigot for believing that homosexuality activity is a sin and that the attraction is disordered, although I do not reject or condemn this man
 
01:05:36 Wayne: Replying to "Is there an actual s..."
 
yes that's it
 
01:06:41 Wayne: Replying to "Is there an actual s..."
 
I checked the foot notes on this verse and did not get clarity on it
 
01:07:27 Nicole Dillon: Thank you Father!
 
01:07:53 Laura: Reacted to "Thank you Father!" with 👍🏼
 
01:08:05 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you, FatherI keep you in  prayer for your retreat Blessing
 
01:08:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:08:17 Forrest Cavalier: So grateful!
 
01:08:21 iPhone: Thank you, Father
 
01:08:29 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 
01:08:33 Cameron Jackson: Thank you.
 
01:08:38 iPhone: Bye bye
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XVIII, Part II

No one is going to take up the practice of fasting or come to “love fasting” as we have often spoken of unless they are taught by those who have deep and long experience in the practice. As we have seen the desert was very much laboratory. Those who entered into it were driven by the desire for the Lord and to remove any impediment to that desire. 
Yet, we see in the writings of the Evergetinos a natural progression, an organic progression, in the practice. Their zeal for the Lord often led the monks to engage in the practice of fasting with great strictness and to radically humble the body. However, they quickly learned that to practice even that which is good in an imprudent and unmeasured fashion was dangerous. To fall into exhaustion from fasting too long could make it impossible for a person to remain awake to engage in the practice of prayer or, similarly, weaken their watchfulness of mind such that they become vulnerable to the provocation of sinful thoughts. 
The desert fathers also had to learn that fasting was but an implement. It is necessary for the cultivation of the heart, but it must be accompanied by constant prayer and bear the fruit of love for God and virtue. Therefore, the Evergetinos places us in a privileged position. We are able to sit at the feet of the great elders of old and to learn from the errors and the pitfalls that can cripple us in the spiritual life as well as to be inspired by the fathers’ great sanctity. The spiritual struggle is rarely neat and the path ahead is often hidden to us. The desert fathers are shining light in an age of spiritual darkness and lack of guidance. Thanks be to God for such a precious gift.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:30:18 Anthony: I feel targeted.... 😉
 
00:36:50 Una: Does that include Irish Coffees?
 
00:48:47 Anthony: It's a gift to be simple, it's a gift to be free
 
00:48:54 Forrest Cavalier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Gifts
 
00:49:21 Forrest Cavalier: Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free
'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
'Twill be in the valley of love and delight.
When true simplicity is gained,
To bow and to bend we shan’t be ashamed,
To turn, turn will be our delight,
Till by turning, turning we come 'round right.[5]
 
00:56:47 Anthony: Excessive sorrow also brings exhaustion.
 
01:07:30 Anthony: History also shows fixation on pornography is almost always present
 
01:17:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you
 
01:17:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:46 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:50 Kevin Burke: Thank you !
 
01:18:03 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XVIII, Part I

We picked up this evening with the beginning of hypothesis 18. For weeks now we have been reading about the essential practice of fasting. The cultivation of virtue and the overcoming of the passions is impossible without it. Making use of the body to strengthen the soul is a necessity. But we quickly realize from the stories that this practice can become imbalanced; monks could fall into extremes and be tempted to engage in disciplines in ways that feed the ego – ways that make them feel holy or religious. 
Yet the desert was a great teacher. The monks learned in this laboratory the subtle movements not only of the mind and the heart, but the way the demons tempt us to extremes. To fast for three or four days serves only to weaken the body and this can disrupt one’s spiritual practices as well as one make one ill. It can also, fill the heart with pride. In this, the gains made in the life of virtue can be lost in an instant. 
Therefore, the fathers begin to understand that fasting must be practiced with restraint, measure, and good wisdom. We must never lose sight of the fact that our fasting is tied to Christ and who he is for us. He is the beloved, the heavenly bridegroom, and our fasting and the hunger it produces must be tied in our minds and our hearts to our desire for Christ, the bread of life. He alone satisfies the deepest longings of the human heart. Therefore fasting is not meant to kill the body, but rather re-order our desires toward their true end. Fasting then is to be done with regularity, extending no more than one day. We begin simply by not eating to the point of satiation. We give the body what is necessary, but no more. In all of this we are taught that the royal path to purity of heart is fasting and that light burdens are also profitable.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:34 Una: Could someone tell me what book we're using?
 
00:08:20 Andrew Adams: Replying to "Could someone tell m..."
 
https://www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html
 
00:08:44 Una: Thank you!
 
00:44:43 Anonymous Sinner: What page?
 
00:47:02 Una: I grew up in Ireland at the time when doctors were doctors and not pill pushers. Our Dr. O'Dolan's best health advice was to always leave the table a little hungry. He was a good Irish Catholic too. I've found following this advice more difficult that doing "heroic" fasts of ten days or so.
 
01:01:44 Anonymous Sinner: I thought that it was Mother Teresa who said this, about praying for 2 hours when one is busy?
 
01:07:41 Maureen Cunningham: Moderation in everything even in moderation
 
01:08:48 Anonymous Sinner: CS Lewis’s chapter on gluttony in the Screwtape Letters comes to mind
 
01:16:27 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Blessing
 
01:16:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:16:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:53 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XVII, Part I

The desert was a laboratory. The monks went into its depths precisely to push the limits of what they needed in order to sustain themselves; whether it be food, water or sleep. Therefore, we must not find ourselves put off by the stories that seem so extreme. Quite simply, they were extreme!
The desert being a laboratory, compelled the monks not only to evaluate their motives but also the restraint and measure that was necessary in order not to fall into extremes where they would hurt themselves physically or spiritually. Wisdom is hard won. The generations of monks who lived in the desert offer us a profoundly astute understanding of the human person, our needs, our motivations, and what strengthens or harm us in the spiritual life. 
They often learned through error. Sometimes their judgment or lack thereof was a source of profound humility. In the coming weeks, we will be presented with the greater wisdom and balance that began to emerge out of this lengthy experience.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:27 Jacqulyn: I'm from Oklahoma!
 
00:18:23 Anthony: Replying to "I'm from Oklahoma!" 
 
 Nice. I'm from Virginia
 
00:20:47 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Nice. I'm from Virgi..." with 👍
 
01:16:46 Anthony: His weeping sounds like DaVinci who lamented not using God's gifts more, or like Cyrano de Bergerac who struggled to maintain honor.
 
01:17:11 Una McManus: What edition of the book are we using?
 
01:17:28 Una McManus: Can someone write it here? Thanks
 
01:17:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:57 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XVI, Part II

We picked up once again with the theme of “loving fasting.” The severity of the desert father’s practice of this discipline reveals that love. They discovered not only how essential the body is in the spiritual struggle to overcome attachment and the order of one’s desires towards God, but also that fasting brings a simplicity to one’s life.
We begin to realize that we need much less than we imagine. We are often tempted to think that we need to pamper the body so as not to become sick or weak. It is the regular practice of fasting, we must keep in mind, that teaches us to see the intimate connection between eating and Christ. He is the bread of life and also he who gives us living water to drink in abundance. Therefore, we are to eat in a thoughtful and contemplative fashion, and to make an explicit connection between eating and the Eucharist. In fact fasting and the Eucharist shape the way that we eat. We must attend to the body, but we must also allow the body to serve us spiritually. We discipline ourselves not to punish the body as something evil but to allow everything to be directed toward what satisfies the deepest longing of the human heart.
We are not promised happiness in this world, but rather the invincible, peace, joy, and love of the kingdom. Fasting is one element that helped the monks learn to hunger for what endures.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:07:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 127, # 8
 
00:43:17 Bob Cihak, AZ: Is the Elder hastening his own death excessively?
 
00:48:25 Susanna Joy: When I was a girl, we fasted on bread and water on Fridays, but after awhile stopped bc virtue is harder to practice ...making it pointless if no charity is left
 
00:48:53 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "When I was a girl, w..." with 😩
 
00:51:15 Susanna Joy: Right! The regular habit is important and the combination with prayer
 
00:51:57 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Right! The regular h..." with 👍🏼
 
00:51:59 Maureen Cunningham: Holy Spirit will help
 
00:52:54 Forrest Cavalier: Is there a #16 that was skipped?
 
00:53:21 Cameron Jackson: Despondency. I can get how one can transcend Judas like despair. God is so good He can forgive all our sin but despair of life itself is another thing. I’m old, my money is running out, I can’t protect my family from ever present evil, etc. God doesn’t guarantee quality of life. How do you think this through? Life is suffering get used to it?!
 
00:56:40 Susanna Joy: Emerson
 
00:56:56 Susanna Joy: Most men lead lives of quiet desperation
 
00:58:33 David Fraley: I think that was Thoreau.
 
00:59:15 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I think that was Tho..." with 👍🏼
 
01:01:28 Susanna Joy: Reacted to I think that was Tho... with "👍🏼"
 
01:08:10 Maureen Cunningham: How long did he live
 
01:14:54 Steve Yu: As a beginner, would one 16 hr fast a week be excessive?
 
01:15:00 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You , Blessing
 
01:15:31 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:35 Forrest Cavalier: Steve, start by skipping breakfast.
 
01:15:36 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:15:43 David Fraley: Thank you, Father.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XV, Part IV and XVI, Part I

We continued our discussion of the fathers’ love for abstinence and fasting. While their feats seem amazing to us as well as how little food they needed to sustain themselves, the importance is what this love of these disciplines show us. They were not embraced simply as forms of discipline or endurance, but rather that which humbled the mind and the body. It is counterintuitive for all of those who live in times of great abundance to imagine that radically limiting both the amount and type of food that we eat could have such great significance for the spiritual life. At one point, the practices are compared to David slaying a lion in the protection of his flock. Fasting allows us to put our trust in God, and so becomes a weapon capable of slaying a far more fierce enemy. Similarly, David rushed out to do battle with Goliath with nothing but a sling and a few stones. Likewise, we rush out in battle, unencumbered by the things of this world caring with us the humble weapons of fasting and constant prayer.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:22 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 124, #5
 
00:12:09 David Fraley: Hello Father!
 
00:22:14 Maureen Cunningham: What  page
 
00:22:33 Lilly: Pg 125 #8
 
00:23:01 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
00:32:04 Adam Paige: gyrovagues
 
00:38:26 Bob Cihak, AZ: Waste not, Want not, Skinny not.
 
00:44:24 Adam Paige: "Prayer, mercy and fasting: these three are one, and they give life to each other. Fasting is the soul of prayer, almsgiving is the lifeblood of fasting. Let no one try to separate them; they cannot be separated." - St. Peter Chrysologus Sermo 43 (Office of Readings for Tuesday of the 3rd week of Lent)
 
00:47:54 Forrest Cavalier: In Hypothesis 16 there are stories of extreme fasting, some of which must be miraculous, but not without other imitations that are attested. There are several saints who lived multiple years only consuming Eucharist, including St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Joseph of Cupertino.
 
01:03:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Yes
 
01:14:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:57 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:33 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:55 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 
01:15:56 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:16:01 Jennifer Ahearn: 🙏 thank you.
 
01:16:08 Mark: thank you father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XV, Part III

The fathers often draw us along this mysterious path, the narrow path, that leads to the kingdom. They lead us, as it were, “where angels fear to tread.”  They show us in an unvarnished fashion how the path to Godly love and virtue passes through affliction. 
Yet, even that is too simplistic. It is the suffering heart, the heart crushed by prayer and the desire for God, that gives birth to virtue. One cannot have God sorrow and suffering if he does not first cherish the causes of these. 
It is here that we must pray for the illumination that comes through faith. For we are told fear of God and the reproof of one’s conscience give birth to this godly sorrow. Abstinence and vigil keep company with a suffering heart and strengthen it to remain upon this path. Gluttony in all of its forms gives rise to the bad blood of the passions, and drives out the influx of the Spirit. 
Thus, while we are young, we must learn to delight in what comes from the labor of compunction. If we do not, we will simply provoke confusion and callousness in the heart. We will be frustrated and lose our desire for God. Knowledge of God and the things of God do not reside in the hedonist; and the one who loves his body will not acquire the grace of God. 
There is a plethora of ways that we idolize the body and its needs. It is for this reason that we are given multiple stories of elders crushing the demons by their asceticism. They starve the demons by not allowing them to feed upon the disordered and the unholy desires that often dwell within our hearts. If a man spends his life in fasting, then his adversaries, the passions and the demons flee, enfeebled, from his soul.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:37:43 Kate : I think sometimes we can hesitate in the ascetical life due to an exaggerated fear of suffering.  I know I have felt this myself.  But when we begin to engage in ascetical practices there is a sweetness and joy and peace in making our way towards God.  It is not a sensible sweetness, but a deep interior sweetness.
 
00:38:51 Adam Paige: At church and Catholic home meetings, I'm constantly being offered food.. it's not always clear whether to accept hospitality or decline sometimes large amounts of food
 
00:44:25 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: Besides wine, it sounds like that satiating our longing for God or restlessness to do God's will by overdoing anything: food, lust, entertainment, news, even complaining, can numb our sensitivity to not just the Holy Spirit's guidance, but even our ability to just be at rest with life we've been given and be
content during prayer.
 
00:44:45 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Besides wine, it sou..." with ❤️‍🔥
 
00:48:56 Forrest Cavalier: καὶ αὐτὸς. ποὺ ἀγαπᾷ τὸ σῶπα του
 
00:49:06 Forrest Cavalier: Agape love
 
00:53:21 Forrest Cavalier: It is the greek original of "he who loves his own body"
 
00:55:36 Anthony: I went to Italy and got some prayer cards from Naples and Calabria.  Some of them do not end prayer in "Amen" but "Cosi sià," which I take to mean "As He (the Lord) wills."
 
01:02:07 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: Just as God wants us well fed in those things that keep us healthy, could it be that the devils have the strategy to starve us spiritually by glutting our appetites, and keep us from feeding on the Word of God or Body of Christ. It seems at times I've been starving on a full stomach. That even in great pleasure, I felt no love or joy..
 
01:05:52 Jennifer Ahearn: There is a term I just learned ‘simping’, in romantic relationships a male who is over attentive and submissive to a woman’s desire.  Only the blessings and God’s good pleasure to see his children fulfilled really satisfy the soul and strengthen the Sacrament.
 
01:06:14 Anthony: I'm preparing to move, and trying to follow St Charbel's advice, cutting out of my life books that I bought to be a somebody, a scholar, but really are so much extra weight - other than the one "jar" I should carry or am called to carry in life, for my vocation.
 
01:08:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Jim Gaffigan
 
01:08:51 Nypaver Clan: Jim Gaffigan?
 
01:09:12 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Jim Gaffigan" with 👍🏼
 
01:14:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂Happy birthday🎂
 
01:14:14 Anthony: Auguri, Padre!
 
01:14:23 Adam Paige: Ad multos annos !
 
01:14:23 Steve Yu: Happy Birthday, Father!
 
01:14:24 Nypaver Clan: Birthday blessings
 
01:15:03 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! Happy Birthday!
 
01:15:23 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. Happy Birthday.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XV, Part II

What is it that we are hungry for in this world? So many of the writings of the fathers can be reduced to this very question. What is the deepest desire of our hearts? What have we been created for and what satisfies the sense of incompleteness or the strange feeling of nostalgia within us? 
Because we have been created for God and find in Him our truest identity, we are going to experience ourselves as strangers in a strange world. We are made like everyone else and experience internal and external pressures to pursue what the world deems legitimate and of value. In the process, any thought of the future or the remembrance of God slips out of our minds. We become slaves not only to our bellies but to everything that we consume in an unthinking fashion. 
Abstemiousness and simplicity are not about lack but rather fullness. We must attend to the very real needs of the flesh but only as much as is required - and sometimes less. When we lose sight of God, our internal world is driven by anxiety and fear. We seek for security and to protect ourselves from want. What we find in the fathers, however, is not a starving of themselves, but rather the starving of the demons and what they nourish themselves upon. We engage in the ascetic life in order not to keep feeding the appetites and the passions that tie us to the world. 
This is no easy task. Rationalization and the illusion of joy and freedom keep us moving forward. However, these things (very much like rights and happiness) are very fragile. We think they are the norm but this is perhaps the great deception of our times. 
Our life has been given to us for repentance and we must not waste it. Life is a relationship; a constant turning towards God and who is constantly seeking us. Let us not grieve the Holy Spirit by seeking to quench our thirst for life and hunger for love other than in God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 118, para 2
 
00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. P. 119, para 2
 
00:31:47 Cindy Moran: Usury
 
00:34:45 Cindy Moran: No cash allowed at Pirate game concessions
 
01:08:03 Jennifer Ahearn: Constant prayer, unceasing.  There is a Freedom for Excellence between deficit and excess
 
01:08:47 Jennifer Ahearn: FOMO😃
 
01:09:26 Jennifer Ahearn: Stay in the rhythm of The Church
 
01:10:56 Jennifer Ahearn: St. Philip Nero ‘if it is not leading to Christ, cut it out’.  Holy leisure is important.
 
01:11:24 Janine: You are 100% correct
 
01:12:01 Jennifer Ahearn: Neri
 
01:12:09 Paul G.: WE experience your teachings and get ntold blessings Father
 
01:12:24 Paul G.: Untold
 
01:12:39 Susanna Joy: Reacted to WE experience your t... with "❤️"
 
01:14:55 Lori Hatala: the things you share are shared with others and create a ripple effect of gratitude and thought provoking prayer.
 
01:15:00 Jennifer Ahearn: Constant prayer, unceasing.  There is a Freedom for Excellence between deficit and excess
 
01:16:40 Jennifer Ahearn: St Louis DeMontfort Consecration five years in a row in October changed my interior life and mind.
 
01:18:31 Forrest Cavalier: For me, reading https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting/ has been very eye opening that the practices noted in Evergetinos are not fantastical. He does write that those who live with others will need more nourishment. Monks less, Hermits even less.
 
01:19:51 Jennifer Ahearn: Yes!  Thank you so much, Fr. Charbel.  It is a constant reality ♥️🙏
 
01:20:13 Jennifer Ahearn: It is exciting ♥️🙏
 
01:21:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:16 Cameron Jackson: Thank you.
 
01:21:17 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
 
01:21:26 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father!
 
01:21:34 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 
01:22:22 Lorraine Green: !Thank you Fr., good luck with the move
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XIV, and XV, Part I

Humility and affliction: Two words that often evoke within us intense fear and anxiety. We are formed by a kind of pathological self-love. The fathers understood our focus upon worldly things as a need to create a sense of security and identity. We desperately want to protect ourselves from hardship and from pain and so we surround ourselves as much as we can to distract ourselves from the reality of death or the presence of suffering in our lives and in the world.
 
It is not only external realities the drive us to this but also vainglory. In some sense our desperate need to protect our dignity and self-esteem can be greater than our bodily desires. We will fight desperately to keep ourselves from the experience of humiliation or to hold on to a position of emotional power in relationships. However, in all these things, we sacrifice true freedom, joy, and peace. For when we embrace our identity in Christ as sons and daughters of God, when we let go of our attachment to the things of this world, then we begin to experience a kind of invincible freedom and joy.
 
He who belongs to Christ has all; and whatever he loses within this world for the sake of Christ will be returned a hundredfold. What the fathers are trying to teach us is that while we suffer within this world we never suffer alone or in isolation. Our communion with Christ means that he is always present to us and that the crosses we bear only draw closer to him. The love of the kingdom is cruciform. Thus, to allow ourselves to be broken and poured out is to manifest that love in its perfection
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:55 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 115, "F"
 
00:10:08 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Good evening everyone
 
00:11:53 Jessica Michel: Hello Father Charbel. Good Morning
 
01:10:05 Forrest Cavalier: I have read to 74 of “To Love Fasting” the point is very clear that gradually accepting discipline makes it easier to accept harder discipline. This can take years.
 
01:10:05 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father!
 
01:10:23 Forrest Cavalier: I meant page 74
 
01:14:40 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:10 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father Charbel.
 
01:15:20 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:27 Erick Chastain: thank you father charbel
 
01:15:27 Jessica Michel: Thank you
 
01:15:31 Cameron Jackson: Thank you.
 
01:15:33 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XIII, Part II

Only the most stalwart and patient of souls can follow along with this evening’s readings without being troubled. Once again it is repeated for us that our life is to be one of constant repentance; that is, turning toward God. Systematically the fathers break down every illusion that we might have about ourselves as having no need of such repentance. Even if we fulfill the work of the day, our response must be like the servants in the gospel: “we are unworthy and have only fulfilled what is our duty.” 
Our state of mind can only be that of gratitude for the gift of God’s mercy and grace. He has bestowed upon us an abundance of love despite the fact that we have often, as the scriptures tell us, treated him as “enemies”. Indeed our infidelity and the depths to which it reaches eludes are perception. 
Even our growth in virtue should instill within us a greater urgency for this repentance.  Growth shows previous inadequacy and negligence. We cannot be prideful or glorious about what we achieve; acknowledging that it is but a pale shadow of the love that God has bestowed upon us. 
Such an attitude also leads us to a deeper understanding of the need to embrace affliction. The gospel does not promise the security of this world or its comforts. In fact, just the opposite. To live for God, to embody the beatitudes is to find ourselves scorned and mocked by the world. The narrow way that leads to the kingdom passes inevitably through Calvary.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 112, 3rd paragraph
 
00:25:55 Lilly: What page are we on?
 
00:26:11 Lilly: Thank you
 
00:58:49 Kate : Father,
I am thinking about the Sacrament of Penance.  My experience has been very legalistic and not really focused on this repentance, this turning towards of God that you are speaking about.  Do you have any recommendations on how to prepare for Confession that would be focused on this kind of repentance?
 
01:02:47 Lilly: I personally found the Eastern sacrament of penance humiliating-in a good way-as we are face to face with the priest, and depending on the father has us under his mantle and full body prostration
 
01:07:39 Forrest Cavalier: O Lord, I believe and profess that you are truly Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the first.
 
Accept me today as a partaker of your mystical supper, O Son of God, for I will not reveal your mystery to your enemies, nor will I give you a kiss as did Judas, but like the thief I profess you:
 
          Remember me, O Lord, when you come in your kingdom.
          Remember me, O Master, when you come in your kingdom.
          Remember me, O Holy One, when you come in your kingdom.
 
01:07:50 Forrest Cavalier: May the partaking of your holy mysteries, O Lord, be not for my judgment or condemnation but for the healing of soul and body.  
 
O Lord, I also believe and profess that this, which I am about to receive, is truly your most precious body and your life-giving blood, which, I pray, make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting.  Amen.
 
          O God, be merciful to me, a sinner.
          O God, cleanse me of my sins and have mercy on me.
          O Lord, forgive me for I have sinned without number.
 
01:08:25 Forrest Cavalier: From https://parma.org/prayer
 
01:15:32 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father Blessing
 
01:15:44 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 
01:15:48 Cameron Jackson: Thank you
 
01:16:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XIII, Part I

We picked up this evening with Hypothesis 13 on the subject of keeping Vigil and not giving oneself over to excessive sleep. However, as we immersed ourselves in the reading, we began to see the father guiding us into something much deeper.  The teaching on keeping vigil is a bridge to talking about Repentance. 
We were presented with the most beautiful understanding of the path the Christ guide us upon. There is a radical simplicity about it that is meant to cut through our tendency to turn the faith into something that is complex and impossible to understand. Repentance is not confined to particular times and deeds, but is put into practice to the extent that the commandments of Christ are fulfilled. The struggle for it is continuous until death. 
The kingdom of Heaven is at hand!  This is our path! It is the constant turning toward God that draws us forward, transforms us, and allows us to comprehend the things of the kingdom. This forsaking of self and sin is the oil of our lamps and each person will reveal who he is from this lamp. His own, not another’s!  It is filled and the light kindled by the practice of virtue. 
In fact, we are told that if we fail to live this and proclaim it to the world both in word and deed, we annul all that we do because we forget and do not take into account death. Our entire life is to be a striving to enter by the narrow gate, to walk the path of repentance - the dying to self and the rising to new life in Christ
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:23 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Hypothesis XIII page 108
 
00:23:19 Lori Hatala: Like a soldier.
 
00:25:31 Adam Paige: To Love Fasting (pdf) https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting
 
00:26:22 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "To Love Fasting (pdf..." with 👍
 
00:30:55 Steve Yu: Reacted to "To Love Fasting (pdf…" with 👍
 
01:12:51 Lorraine Green: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:12:56 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:13:04 Steve Yu: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:25 Jessica Michel: Thank you Father
 
01:13:46 Lori Hatala: or a date
 
01:14:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Can you set it up so you have a choice of oldest first or most recent first? YouTube channels have this option for example
 
01:14:30 Cameron Jackson: Thank you. 
Very grateful.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XII, Part I

We picked up this evening with Hypothesis 12. The subtitle is on avoiding idle talk. However, this does not do justice to what we are given in the text. It is revealed to us how we are to kindle within our hearts the fire of love for God that then gives rise to a holy sacrifice of praise. 
Thus, the greatest thing that we can give God is to emulate the angels who praise Him without ceasing. Our love for the Lord should give rise to an urgent longing within the heart to call out to Him constantly and without distraction. 
Likewise, when we pray in common, we are to be attentive to the fact that we are responsible for the attentiveness of those around us and seek to preserve their focus. We do not pray or chant in an individualistic fashion but again imitate the angels in crying out to the Lord with one voice of love. 
What a blessing monks are for the church. The fathers tell us that Christ perfects the praise of infants; that is, he prefects the prayer of the monk in his innocence and childlike simplicity. It is through this humble prayer and sacrifice of praise that the demons are conquered. What makes this even more powerful is that it is often done hidden from the eyes of the world. Such prayer is offered without pride or self-consciousness. Rather it rises unimpeded to the very throne of God on behalf of all.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:46:55 Forrest Cavalier: Since you mentioned the comment of the monk, I was thinking that every vocation is "impossible". Hence the need for grace.
 
01:06:33 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 
01:07:05 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr. And God bless you.🙏
 
01:07:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XI, Part III

As we conclude Hypothesis 11, we are given very solid food to nourish our understanding of the nature of prayer and our demeanor. How is it that we are called to worship God, to pray the psalms, and what is our demeanor to be following that worship? 
A kind of liturgical asceticism must guide and direct our prayer and piety. Even the way that we pray and celebrate the liturgy, and one might say especially here, must allow the grace of God to guide and direct us. As always, Christ is the standard and the model. It is his humility, silence, obedience to God that must form and shape the way that we approach the altar and the manner in which we listen to the word of God. 
We must pray in a manner fosters patience and that allows us to listen with the spirit of contrition. We gather before God not to alter our emotional state or to create an experience that simply elevates the mind. We come before God to offer him a sacrifice of praise and that sacrifice is the fullness of our self. We are to be completely given over to him in such way that we withhold nothing from Him and are capable of receiving everything He desires to give us. 
Very few in our day think of worship in this fashion. May God give us the grace to offer him all that we have and are; for in seeking what He desires, God bestows upon us more than the mind in the heart can imagine.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:49 susan: after MASS i have to go to my car to pray!
 
00:48:07 Carol Roper: it seems that the caution is against performing, vanity, pleasure seeking, even in liturgy. one's motivation must be examined carefully i imagine
 
00:52:59 Anthony: Let Us Build the City of God.....they still sing it.  Sigh.  Are you TRYING to get me to change rites?
 
01:02:16 Rebecca Thérèse: a bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench
 
01:02:17 Carol Roper: oppressed and afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth, like a lamb led to the shearers
 
01:04:52 Dave Warner (AL): A bruised reed He will not break - Isa 42:3
 
01:05:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Isaiah 42:3 Matthew 12:20
 
01:16:22 Lisa Smith: Thank you & God Bless you.
 
01:16:36 Cameron Jackson: Thank you
 
01:17:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:26 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father!
 
01:17:27 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis XI, Part II

All that we do is to be touched by the grace of God, shaped by it, and perfected by it. This includes our virtues, and also the manner in which we pray. 
Psalmody has always been apart of the prayer tradition of the church and in particular of the monastics. The psalms capture within them both the adversities and the joys that we experience in this world. It is the most important thing that we can do as human beings; to seek to God and offer a sacrifice of praise. 
Therefore, the monks are very careful to allow their prayer to be guided by God. We can be willful even in the fashion that we pray and sing. This is also true in the times that we set for prayer for ourselves. For example, the monks prayed many times a day together; emphasizing that they are part of the body of Christ. We do not pray as individuals, but always aware of the radical communion that exists not only with God but with one another. 
Thus, we find among the fathers an emphasis upon praying and singing while remaining conscious of what is going on within their hearts. We do not want to fall into distraction or lead others into it. Simplicity and humility should be the mark of worship; that which guides us in order that what we sing and pray is reflective of the reality within our hearts and our desire for God. Once again, we are presented with a kind of liturgical asceticism. Liturgy shapes the interior life and the interior life shapes the way that we pray.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:42:45 Lori Hatala: I have heard psalms chanted in different melodies. Is the melody of the chant relevant?
 
00:54:21 Tracey Fredman: Agreed, even if you do not have the time for a whole weekend at a monastery, even a visit while monks are at prayer can be life-altering.
 
00:55:06 Tracey Fredman: It can alter our prayer life, is what I mean.
 
00:55:41 Susanna Joy: Beautifully said...discipline is a silent "word" back to God
 
01:11:07 Wayne: If you have the opportunity to attend Matins or Vespers in the Eastern churches, the changing can have a very positive affect on you.
 
01:13:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:48 Edgard Riba: Thank you!
 
01:13:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙏🙂
 
01:13:56 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis X, Part III and Hypothesis XI, Part I

The focus of the Evergetinos this evening was on praying the psalms. However, as always with the writings of the fathers, the focus isn’t simply on the external actions, but the meaning of them. How do we pray as members of the body of Christ? Is there a kind of liturgical asceticism that must match our bodily asceticism?  What is the measure of our prayer? In other words, as those who live in a spirit of repentance and seek purity of heart, how do these realities shape the way we pray. 
The fathers this understood very well our tendency to focus on externals and that we can fall back into a modern day Pharisaism. We can be satisfied with the appearance of religiosity while giving scant attention to what God has revealed to us and the life that he has called us to embrace. Whenever this happens, it not only weakens our capacity to bear witness to Christ but it can undermine the life of the Church as a whole. If our hearts are fragmented by our sin this will manifest itself or be mirrored in liturgy. And when this takes place the entire culture around us - as well as within the church - can collapse. 
It’s a sobering presentation, but something that afflicts the Church in every generation. If the Evil One is going to attack the Church, he is going to attack it at its heart; that is, how we pray.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:00 Kate : There’s also the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary which is very suitable for the laity.
 
00:25:13 Vanessa: Reacted to "There’s also the Lit..." with ❤️
 
00:25:22 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There’s also the Lit..." with ❤️
 
00:39:40 iPad (2): That is a wonderful book and he also has a podcast series on the book
 
00:50:47 Rod Castillo: The Endarkenment
 
00:54:30 Bob Cihak: Reacted to "The Endarkenment" with 👍
 
00:57:03 Maureen Cunningham: Oh no
 
00:57:07 Vanessa: Lol
 
01:04:40 Kate : Our family has witnessed many a liturgical battle which seemed good and urgent at the time, only to realize that God has been lost in the battle.  The battle took center stage, and striving for holiness took back stage.
 
01:14:53 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you It is wonderful .
 
01:15:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:54 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
 
01:16:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:13 Maureen Cunningham: Wonderful choice I trust. The lord is leading you as the Captain of the ship in the studies
 
01:17:26 Vanessa: Reacted to "Wonderful choice I t..." with 👍
 
01:17:47 Maureen Cunningham: Where would we find the book
 
01:17:54 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father, God bless!  The Divine Office talks sound very good too.
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis X, Part II

We continued our discussion of prayer and the things that often become an obstacle to it. Much of the discussion this evening focused upon the things that make us lazy or weary in prayer or lead us to drowsiness.
One of the important things that the fathers teach us is that sleep is an appetite that is to be ordered like any other appetite. Our life has been given to us for repentance; that is, to turn toward God and to seek to love him with all of our heart. It is this reality that should shape the way that we look at prayer, the way that we discipline ourselves - and yes - even how we sleep.
 
Rising at night is one of the most wonderful times for prayer for a number of reasons. The mind and the body are humbled. The thoughts are often not moving so rapidly nor the world around us and its noises. Praying at night provides us with an opportunity to enter into deep silence, so as to listen to God and the word he wishes to utter in the depths of our hearts.
 
Therefore, there are times when we will have to force ourselves in order to strengthen our will to not only bring ourselves to prayer but to remain there. Whenever we experience drowsiness, we must resist it firmly. Often we will give up a discipline when we face difficulty. It is our love for the Lord, however, that must send us out at night seeking He alone who can satisfy the longings of our heart.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:02:04 FrDavid Abernethy: we can hear you
 
00:02:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 89
 
00:21:49 Anthony: I did that. I'd go back. It drove me nuts, playing on scrupulous feelings
 
00:49:25 Ann Thelen: Quick question regarding food/fasting...how do we deal with the temptation to vanity when we are attempting to fast? We know fasting has wonderful health benefits. One of those benefits is that we look better and more healthy which can feed into vanity.
 
01:04:22 Anthony: Menaion?
 
01:17:14 Lisa Smith: Thank you & God bless
 
01:17:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:04 Nicole Dillon: Thank you ☺️
 
01:18:08 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. Praying for you.
 
01:18:19 Ann Thelen: Thank you.
 
01:18:26 Cindy Moran: Thanks
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis IX, Part II and Hypothesis X, Part I

Breaking the night for prayer!!  The very idea either never comes into the mind of modern Christians or it sends a shudder through the heart. The idea of limiting something like sleep for the sake of prayer, of humbling the mind and body in such a way on purpose and regularly seems to express a type of insanity. Would I not make myself sick or incapable of working the next day if such a practice were embraced in modern times.
Yet, it is a constant practice throughout the spiritual tradition; to sanctify time and foster an urgent longing within the heart for God that causes the soul to rise, even in the night, to seek him. Admittedly, this may require that we simplify our lives. There is already a frenetic pace in our day-to-day lives; a busyness that is almost suffocating. Such makes the idea of adding night prayer to that seem impossible and even frightening.
One can only come to know the fruit of this through experience. In the stillness of the night, impediments that often plague us throughout the course of the day fall away. Creation itself grows quiet and with it the human heart. Such a heart filled with urgent longing for the Lord will rise eagerly and with joy to taste the sweetness of his presence!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:59:01 Anthony: Perhaps a principle issue I'd reconciling the mind / interior thoughts with the heart / the noetic sentiment of affection for one's true calling.
 
01:02:04 Kate : Do the Fathers differentiate between vocal prayer and mental prayer, or is that a Western distinction?  Is there a recommendation to the kind of
prayer that would take place during a night vigil?
 
01:02:34 Lisa Smith: I find the setting has a huge impact on prayer/ like a noisy city compared to the quiet woods. I find it easiest to pray in a rural solitary place. With minimal distractions
 
01:03:31 Ann Thelen: what is the best way to discern if waking in the night to prayer is something we are called to? or are we all called to this? Maybe I am overthinking this.
 
01:06:22 Ann Thelen: fear of failure in this resolve seems to be the thing that immediately presents itself when thinking about rising in the night for prayer.
 
01:08:42 Lisa Smith: Catherine Daughtery wrote a series called Poustina. I've been meaning to read that.
 
01:10:38 Wayne: Replying to "Catherine Daughtery ..."
 
I do have a copy of this book
 
01:10:58 Lisa Smith: Replying to "Catherine Daughtery ..."
 
🙏
 
01:10:59 Ambrose Little: I wouldn’t suggest that’s a healthy model! 😄
 
01:11:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Before the modern era it was common for the night to be divided into "two sleeps". It was really the industrial revolution that ended this practice.
 
01:11:50 Ambrose Little: Replying to "I wouldn’t suggest t..."
 
Saying that as one who’s helped his wife stay sane through 7 kiddos. It’s not a time we want to extend or further.
 
01:14:47 Anthony: Another ill effect of the "reformation," particularly the English variety.
 
01:16:37 Anthony: Yes
 
01:17:15 Ann Thelen: I appreciate the analogy of nursing the baby. We have five children and the youngest is 7 now. My excuse has been that I will be tired if i get in the night to pray. That analogy shed light on my excuse. It actually spoke to my heart saying "Ann, you've done this before. Don't be afraid of it"
 
01:20:00 Maureen Cunningham: Susan Wesley would put an apron over her head she 12 children everyone new she was in prayer
 
01:23:31 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr. God bless you.🙏
 
01:23:32 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing Father
 
01:24:09 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:24:10 Ann Thelen: Thank you
 
01:24:11 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father!
 
01:24:20 Steve Yu: Thanks, Father!
 
01:24:22 Maureen Cunningham: You are to kind of
 
01:24:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:24:43 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis VIII, Part II and Hypothesis IX, Part I

The fathers continue to speak to us about service and work and the disposition that we are to have in doing it. Our understanding must move from a functional understanding of labor; engaging in it in a way that is determined by private judgment or by the desire for worldly things. 
Everything that we do must be tied to our service of the providence of God. In other words, we are responding to the call of Love. The way that the Christian works and responds to the needs of others (as well as the one’s own needs) is tied to our relationship with the Lord. We are given the task of being the guardian of souls; our own and others’. We are to attend to our own needs, trusting that God will provide us with what is needed. We are to serve others without making excuses for our avoidance or negligence in doing so. 
We are to seek first the kingdom of heaven. This is what shapes everything for us. We always return to the nest of prayer, there to be nourished upon the love and the grace of God. And it is only from that nest that we step out in response to His call to love and serve others. 
So often we fill our life with needless tasks; more often than not to give us a sense of security and safety. Yet to do so draws us away from He who is the Lord of love and the Governor of history; the One who provides for every one of our needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:07 Ann Thelen: hello everyone. I've been listening to these podcasts for the last year or so. tonight is the first time i've been able to jump in live due to Easter Break. No children's activities. Happy and grateful to be joining you.
 
00:10:25 Adam Paige: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍
 
00:10:32 Ambrose Little: Southerner joining early…
 
00:10:37 FrDavid Abernethy: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍
 
00:10:41 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍
 
00:18:13 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍
 
00:22:01 Steve Yu: Social media has enhanced the spirit of rudeness. I think it has to do with interacting with others in a non physical manner.  We gain a certain “freedom” from politeness and respect, in my opinion.
 
00:22:15 David C: Reacted to "Social media has enh..." with 👍
 
00:23:54 Carol Roper: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍
 
00:24:23 Steve Yu: Cultural difference?
 
00:40:24 Nypaver Clan: Do you think St. Philip got that imagery from St. Isaac?
 
00:47:28 Susanna Joy: On the previous section: The bird has to hurry back to the nest because the egg needs warmth or the baby bird is hungry and waiting...what stuck with me from the nido image is taking what gleaned from the world and hurty back to care for this tender growing "baby" life within the love Divine...the goodness received from the sheltering nest of the hand of God...
 
00:51:34 David C: Reacted to "On the previous sect..." with 👍
 
00:55:23 Erick Chastain: where are we in the evergetinos?
 
00:55:41 Nypaver Clan: Top of 85
 
01:04:49 Ann Thelen: Is there a book or something of the sorts that gives a good recommendation for what the structure of what our daily prayer life should look like as someone who is married or taking care of family. Specifically, the amount of time spent in prayer that should be non negotiable.
 
01:10:48 Ann Thelen: haha
 
01:12:47 sharonfisher: Thank you — I needed this instruction and I need to heed it.
 
01:13:06 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "Thank you — I needed..." with ❤️
 
01:13:16 Kevin Burke: Me too.. “Prayer is a relationship”
 
 
01:13:46 Ann Thelen: Thank you. Thats very helpful
 
01:16:02 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father, very profound teaching tonight…
 
01:16:02 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!!
 
01:16:04 Susanna Joy: When my son was small I was at a retreat, and some were going to devotions while those of us with small ones to the children out on a hike. A community member remarked to me, too bad you cant be in worship...It occured to me that my life with my child is a devotion...
 
01:16:06 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:15 Troy Amaro: Thank You
 
01:16:20 Erick Chastain: have a good night father
 
01:16:31 Lisa Smith: God bless
 
01:16:33 David C: Thank you God Bless all
 
01:16:40 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis VIII, Part I

What a beautiful group! Beauty, however, is not only found in the things that are attractive or appeal to our sensibilities. What is beautiful is found in the truth – the truth that speaks to the depths of our hearts and our religiosity. Once again, the fathers speak to us and present to us the gospel in unvarnished fashion. 
 
What is the disposition that we are to have in our service of God and others? If we give ourselves over to task with obedience, then we can be assured that God will provide all the grace that is necessary. If we do these tasks poorly, if we make mistakes, these do not diminish the value of our work. What gives shape to the work is the love and the humility of Christ. 
 
There are so many things that rush to our minds as to why we cannot bear something or why we cannot do a certain work. However, the fathers show us that so often such things are excuses; that is, plausible lies. They are reasonable because they are rooted in the reality of our own weaknesses. They are lies because they do not take into account the grace and the mercy of God. So often when we take up a task we engage in the labor abstracted from Christ. However, if we simply offer that labor to Christ, if we take it up by his grace and for his glory, then it has more value than we could ever imagine.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 78
 
00:04:01 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis Tonight
 
00:06:45 Arthur Danzi: Hi Fr David
 
00:07:01 Arthur Danzi: I’m fine, how are you?
 
00:07:06 Arthur Danzi: My internet connection is poor…
 
00:29:12 Rachel: yes
 
00:40:27 sharonfisher: Thank you for the comment that even the monks struggle. My priest, after 2.5 or 3 years, revealed that he, too, sometimes struggles to keep the prayer rule. It was helpful to me to hear that.
 
00:54:21 Rachel: This is a magnificent passage. It needs to be read very slowly. Finding humility, doorkeeper, etc. This is so rich and multilayered. One can only understand through experience I am sure.
 
00:55:08 Rachel: No,but I think it needs to be unpacked
 
00:55:17 sharonfisher: 😂
 
00:55:29 Tracey Fredman: Experiential understanding is really hard to go through, though. This discussion is really helpful to me this evening.
 
00:55:49 Rachel: There is more to it..when one finds humility, one finds Christ, but what happens when we become the doorkeeper, or christ becomes the doorkeeper of our heart?
 
00:58:16 Rachel: He speaks about finding salvation by finding humility. Either way, we learn by experience whether we want to or not. But we may not experience what Our Lord desires that we experience. We may go kicking and screaming instead of finding the humility that the desert fathers speak of. He desire that we experience Himself
 
00:58:21 Liz D: It is consoling that you have shared this Father, about persecition with the Church, thank you. It can difficult to trust people in the Church when one experienced being persecured from within the Church. Also, to remember to go to Christ first-because sometimes I realize I go to God last for some areas of my life. As if in some things I subconsciously believe I am expected (by God) to go it alone--only turning to Jesus for help when things become nearly unbearable
 
00:58:39 sharonfisher: Reacted to "He speaks about find..." with ❤️
 
00:59:56 sharonfisher: Reacted to "It is consoling that..." with ❤️
 
01:00:06 Keith Abraham: Reacted to "It is consoling that…" with ❤️
 
01:00:56 Rachel: Oh we can trust them alright! trust them to be very human like ourselves lol
 
01:01:31 Lisa Smith: My favorite verse is where Christ speaks of faith as a grain of mustard seed.
 
01:01:56 Rachel: I'm too melancholic for my own good, sorry i will be quiet again.
 
01:02:13 Rachel: lol
 
01:04:11 Lisa Smith: lol Amen on the doorkeeper, Fr
 
01:04:23 Adam Paige: Saint Brother André was a porter
 
01:05:11 Lisa Smith: not for the socially anxious.
 
01:07:23 Steve Yu: I love the parable of the mustard seed because Jesus starts by comparing the Kingdom to someone who plants such a seed in a garden. The problem with that is someone would have to be crazy to do that. They grow enormous and quite ugly in my opinion. It would ruin a garden.  
 
Isn’t that reflective of the spiritual life? We search for the beautiful garden not realizing that the ugly or inconvenient event may have Christ hidden within. I *think* this is attributable to humility. Christ has us see Him where we least expect Him.
 
01:09:07 Andrew Adams: Reacted to "I love the parable o..." with ❤️
 
01:12:48 Keith Abraham: “Domesticating” Christianity is one of the worst things we can do.
 
01:12:49 Steve Yu: That went by fast
 
01:12:56 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
 
01:13:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:42 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!!
 
01:13:43 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you
 
01:13:49 Troy Amaro: Thank You
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis VI, Part II and Hypothesis VII

We are drawn ever deeper into the subtle manifestations of Avarice and how the demons make use of this passion to draw us into other sins. Indeed, it is a fearsome vice. The evil one can convince us that our identity is dependent on our having a certain objects or money and the security that it seems to offer us. Once we have given ourselves over to this thought, it gradually oppresses the mind and heart of the individual. Our incapacity to discern the truth of avarice’s grip upon us, we lose the ability can see what has enduring value. 
Such oppression undermines our commitment to God, others, and the pursuit of the path of sanctification he has set us upon. Suddenly we can no longer see what is good about a godly life and fidelity. We begin to see the weaknesses of others and the failure of a community to reach the ideal. We become hyper-critical. This the Evil One uses psychologically to make our exit from our vocation more acceptable to the mind. He first makes us despise what we once loved. What we once entered into with zeal, we now turn away from with cowardice. 
When given over to avarice we find ourselves falling under the control of the demons who continue to torment us; making us more vulnerable to the darkness of other passions. In this particular vice, we see the truth that “sin is its own punishment”. The more we grasp for the things of this world, the more we descend into darkness and ingratitude.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:18 FrDavid Abernethy: page 69
 
00:12:30 FrDavid Abernethy: midway down the page. second para
 
00:13:05 Keith Abraham: Thank you very much!
 
00:23:09 Anthony: This sounds like what happened in the hundred years prior to the reformation.  The vices preceded an explosion leaving the Church and the religious life.
 
00:46:23 Alexandra: Can avarice be wanting to have control. Control of Knowing everyone's business?
 
00:50:10 Anthony: This story is funny. Dragons are associated with the avaricious guarding of gold.  The serpent is like a mirror for his avaricious
state.
 
01:24:31 Rachel: No career changes according to one's whims
 
01:30:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:30:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊
 
01:30:44 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:30:51 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you!
 
01:30:57 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr
 
01:30:57 Troy Amaro: Thank You
 
01:31:12 Kevin Burke: Thank you !
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis IV, Part III

We take up this evening a new hypothesis (VI) dealing with the ownership of property. At the heart of it, however, is the temptation to avarice and the impact that it has upon the spiritual life and upon our commitments to God and others. 
 
The monks relinquishment of property, their embrace of a life of poverty and simplicity, highlights for us the subtle temptations that are involved in our attachment to the things of the world. Where lust and gluttony perhaps fail to satisfy - avarice often step in to test us. It can become something insatiable. The more we amass the more we desire. 
 
Our attachment to things can begin on a very small level. Yet unchecked, it can affect the way that we enter into our relationship with God. We slowly begin to seek our security and identity in things. This, in turn, can make us ever so vulnerable to the demons attack against our commitments. The possession of things can make it seem more plausible to change and alter our life; to pursue another path of salvation, for ourselves, that does not require hardship or that offers more satisfaction. It gives room for our internal instability to drive us away from what challenges us internally to overcome the ego. What begins with a small attachment eventually can develop to the point where a demon tells us that “if stay where we are we the place our salvation in jeopardy. It is better to take what we have, and to create something better in our own judgment.”  In this, we often place our own judgment above God’s. It creates an atmosphere of infidelity and strips us of long-suffering.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 64
 
00:23:46 Eric Ewanco: 2nd maccabees
 
00:28:24 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "2nd maccabees"
 
12:39-45
 
00:41:56 Michael Hinckley: I know I’m that way about books. Desire for more
 
00:42:38 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I know I’m that way ..." with ❤️
 
00:48:28 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "I know I’m that way ..."
 
There is a Japanese term, "tsundoku" (積ん読). This word describes the habit of acquiring books and letting them pile up, without reading them.
 
00:52:21 John I.: Replying to "I know I’m that way ..."
 
I used to think that reading a lot of good Catholic books would make me very virtuous....
 
00:54:39 Eric Ewanco: I can see those worries about the future being very real
 
00:56:33 Lori Hatala: I have always feared thinking "I deserve".  I probably would not like getting what I deserve.
 
00:57:13 Kate : As an aside, we have a daughter who is a Carmelite nun.  When she received the holy habit, all of her hair was cut off.  We were given this hair to keep as a momento.  She had a beautiful head of hair, but she gave it up with great joy.  And now, I think there is more beauty in her Carmelite veil and all it signifies than in her hair.
 
00:57:21 Tracey Fredman: There's an emotional type of attachment to un-needful things - why is that? Not necessarily security - things like … I don't know, teacups - are hard to part with for some people. I'm very much aware of this in myself and I trying to declutter - it's really hard.
 
00:58:34 Vanessa: Reacted to "As an aside, we have..." with ❤️
 
00:58:51 Jacqulyn: Reacted to As an aside, we have... with "❤️"
 
01:00:42 Eric Ewanco: There is a tradition, I think in the Romanian churches maybe, at the wedding of the priest saying "You are now each other's crosses"
 
01:27:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you,🙂 sorry I was late. I'm in the UK and forgot about daylight saving time.
 
01:28:32 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:28:38 Sophia: 🙏
 
01:28:45 Kenneth: thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis IV, Part II and Hypothesis V

Sometimes in the simplest teachings is found the greatest wisdom. Such is true in tonight‘s readings from The Evergetinos. The focus is on work, how we engage in it and also how we engage others with whom we work.
 
What becomes evident is that the Christian works in a distinctive fashion. Above all charity is to guide the manner in which we work, our diligence, and also the way we treat others. Whether they are good workers or not, we do not compare ourselves to them or the quality of our labor. Nor do we hold up the weakness or defects of people for others to see and so diminish their character.
 
It is for this reason that our spiritual work must always take precedence over and shape the work that we do within the world. We take up all things from the hand of God. And in doing, so we keep before our eyes the dignity of the other. There is nothing that we could produce within this world and nothing that we could accomplish that has more value than our own soul or that of others. Love and humility in all things!
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:06:16 Tracey Fredman: I've been thinking a lot about the question "How is your prayer life?" - what would be a proper response?
 
00:09:48 sharonfisher: I would respond that it’s in fits and starts — frequent during the day but not very structured. I need to do better.
 
00:25:39 Steve Yu: Is the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles another title for the Didache?
 
00:28:46 Anthony: I think the Constitutions are on librivox app
 
00:28:54 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I think the Constitu…" with 👍
 
00:29:00 Steve Yu: Replying to "I think the Constitu…"
Thanks!
 
00:29:03 Adam Paige: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Constitutions
 
00:29:09 Steve Yu: Reacted to "https://en.m.wikiped…" with 👍
 
00:29:10 Anthony: Also latin and slavonic
 
00:29:33 Steve Yu: Replying to "https://en.m.wikiped…"
Thanks!
 
00:30:07 Kevin Burke: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1493752200?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
 
00:36:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks!" with 👍
 
00:37:26 Rachel: Whoah
 
00:37:49 Steve Yu: Reacted to "https://www.amazon.c…" with 👍
 
00:38:01 Steve Yu: Replying to "https://www.amazon.c…"
Thanks much!
 
00:39:00 Rachel: So, I would have trouble having a poker face in that situation. I love the grace I have seen in others who handle these things, even great things in stride. The humility it takes to cover anothers faults and mistakes
 
00:46:22 Rachel: I do lol
 
00:52:28 Anthony: These men have complete freedom but choose to discipline their lives for the vision of something better than a "Batchelor life."
 
00:52:45 Vanessa: Reacted to "These men have compl..." with 👍
 
01:00:55 Anthony: An interesting book: "Catholicism, Protestantism and Capitalism" by Amintore Fanfani
 
01:01:29 Rachel: Some nuns who gave a talk to a prayer group a talk spoke about guarding oneself from touching in a layperson's life as well. It seems strange on the surface to the world. There are naturally affectionate people who want always to hug others. As an introvert I have admires the way in which the nuns held themselves. When we are not intruding on another's space, in charity or not, it is a way in which we can respect the image of God in the other. In the context of the talk, which was given about friendships and the life of prayer, I could see how there are many behaviors that on the surface seem charitable but are subtly self serving. 
The actions lack true humility and charity.
 
01:04:10 Liz D: Are there any prerequisites to praying the Prayer of the Heart, also known as the "Jesus Prayer.” mentioned as a way to pray in the morning? Also, can we pray this way during work times? I  read an admonition from one of the Fathers that it can be ill-advised to pray this prayer if one is not ready for it. Perhaps it had to do with certain breathing while praying. I’m sorry I don’t recall the exact quote or admonition. How may I discern if ready to try this prayer as a non-monastic Catholic? I’d like to pray the "Jesus Prayer" in the morning as discussed in the previous hypothesis discussion.  I apologize if this question is from the prior chapters or was covered previously.
 
01:12:35 Liz D: Thank you, Father.
 
01:12:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Such a priest probably doesn't understand it or finds it offensive and doesn't want his parishioners asking him awkward questions or judging him harshly
 
01:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Reacted to "These men have compl..." with 👍
 
01:13:41 Rachel: My comment was Irrelevant, we had moved on  =)
 
01:14:47 Maureen Cunningham: Thank. You
 
01:14:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:52 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:15:07 sue and mark: good night
 
01:15:36 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis III, Part IV and Hypothesis IV, Part I

Everything about what it is to be a human being should be touched and shaped by the grace of God. Our identity and purpose comes through Christ. When we lose sight of this, a kind of disorder and imbalance enters into the way that we work, the kind of work that we take up, and the time that we spend engaged in it.
This evening we were given one story after another about the nature of the work the desert monks did. Their focus was on manual labor that allowed them to be attentive to God while engaged in it. They also worked enough to provide for themselves modestly but always with an eye towards the needs of others. We do not work for ourselves. Nor do we work and labor to the extent that it reveals we want to reach a point where we will no longer have to bear that burden. Work prevents us from falling into idleness, but also allows us to provide for others in their needs.
When Christ is absent from this part of our life, then “our toil shall be great, our path unsteady, our grief inconsolable, and our lives care-worn.” The one who is focused upon Christ and seeks him first will labor temperately and freely. In the absence of Christ, however, one is driven by agitation and fear.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:21:26 Amale Obeid: How do hermits balance the solitude with the duty to serve others?
 
00:28:13 Anthony: We Americans have the farce of the Puritan work ethic, though. We are people, not human resources.  That is a point of resistance for me.
 
00:37:50 Rebecca Thérèse: A siev is a strainer
 
00:38:02 Rebecca Thérèse: sieve
 
00:39:25 Anthony: As a matter of historical note, in the middle ages, cloth was the first commodity, and a source of wealth.  Weavers were treated poorly, like the way treat robots.  The heresy of Waldensianism spread among weavers, perhaps during to their social condition.
 
00:42:07 Lilly: Saint Francis of Assisi, comes to mind. He left his dad's linen business to live a monastic life :)
 
00:43:19 Anthony: Reacted to Saint Francis of Ass... with "👍"
 
00:59:29 Amale Obeid: How much work is “enough” to not be slothful or idle? Secular life does not let you step down or slow down. It feels more and more like it’s an all or nothing choice
 
01:09:33 Anthony: On the neglect of the most important things when work is too long or too heavy: St John Bosco & St Frances Cabrini looked after children whose families were forced to work to the neglect of children....and the boys themselves who worked so much but neglected their souls.
 
01:10:54 Vanessa: Reacted to "On the neglect of th..." with 👍
 
01:11:17 Anthony: Thank God Pope Francis preaches on the evil of usury /
debt culture.
 
01:15:53 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You  Father David
 
01:15:56 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:43 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:16:47 Nick Bodmer: Thanks!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis III, Part III

We continued our discussion from The Evergetinos on idleness. What begins to emerge from the wisdom of the fathers is that everything that is part of our life as human beings is filled with meaning and touched by grace. God has ordained that we provide for ourselves by the work of our hands. Furthermore, by this very same work, we are attentive to the needs of others. Work allows us to show charity to others in their needs. Avoiding idleness not only allows us to engage in fruitful labor but helps us to remain focused in our thoughts and avoid temptation. 
The fathers also understood that when our work is taken up as from the hand of God, as an act of obedient love, we give ourselves over to it with zeal and attention. We are prevented from falling into laziness. Such an understanding also allows us to engage in work in such a way that others see what motivates us. The intentions of the heart are often revealed in the simple way that we engage in our day-to-day labors. When we love, we take up that work diligently and joyfully.  We do not complain or fall into resentment. Nor do we compare our work with others. When we take up our work from God, it frees us from the pitfalls that often plague us on a daily basis. A balance emerges in our life. When our identity is rooted in God then we take up our labor from him and knowing that it is completed by his grace. Work is not what gives meaning to our life. It is love in our hearts that shapes that work.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:15:59 Suzanne: Father, I'm just popping in to let you know I am going offline for Lent. I'll see you after Easter.
 
00:16:20 FrDavid Abernethy: Replying to "Father, I'm just pop..."
 
ok.  God bless
 
00:16:21 Suzanne: Thank you!!!
 
00:16:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 52 top paragraph
 
00:21:32 Amale Obeid: The toil when working with the mind seems paradoxically heavier than the toil of working with the hands. How might we think about the difference between working the corporate grind versus what the monks consider work?
 
00:34:45 Louise: A beautiful book about being with God inwardly and with the world outwardly is The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence.
 
00:35:48 Maureen Cunningham: Yes a wonderful book
 
00:35:50 Anthony: Read it. Supposedly it was a Carthusian work. Very good.
 
00:56:26 Alexandra K: This is the issue I have while working remote. I really really really don't like it. Need to remember that I should work for God.
 
00:57:41 Amale Obeid: Reacted to "A beautiful book abo..." with ❤️
 
01:16:20 Maureen Cunningham: Do you think they were so hard on Monks because they understood Spiritual Warfare
 
01:19:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:49 Maureen Cunningham: thank you many Blessings
 
01:19:53 Amale Obeid: Thank you
 
01:20:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:36 Sophia: Thank you, Fr
 
01:20:38 Alexandra K: Thank you for doing this Father! I'll pray for you
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis III, Part II

What a blessing it is to read slowly. It allows insights to unfold before our minds and imaginations that we often would not be attentive to due to our typical need to rush. Hurry, most often, comes from the evil one who seeks to undermine our peace. It is lingering over the thoughts of the fathers on idleness that we begin to understand that what they are talking about is not simply avoiding laziness and sloth. They are revealing to us that keeping our focus upon God in mind and body, that is with the whole self, we grow in our capacity to love God and others. 
Virtue forms within the soul from engaging in our tasks with love and humility. Our willingness to take up that which is simple and perhaps menial in the eyes of the world and to do so with love is what is seen by God. Pushing a broom, if done with love, draws us to the very heart of God. Whereas imbalance in our labor, whether it is driving ourselves harshly or laziness, makes us lose sight of the glory of God in all things. May we listen well as we sit at the feet of the fathers, so that we might live our lives and engage in our work with minds and hearts fixed on God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:41:21 Rachel: I think it important to be clear that panic attacks when endured with patience, can be meritorious. Putting ones trust in God when flooded with waves of panic. The peace of Christ is a gift of God and I wonder, little by little one will find the peace of Christ within the storm. Patience, will teach one to see. Trust in God, He will reveal Himself in these moments
 
00:41:56 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I think it important…" with 👍
 
00:44:59 Susanna Joy: Wow...look at you know, though!!!
 
00:45:36 Susanna Joy: You totally overcame and are presenting CONSTANTLY! 🙏🏻🌟AMDG...
 
00:52:08 Susanna Joy: Our work becomes the altarspace...
 
01:05:26 Suzanne: This is a really good class tonight.
 
01:06:13 Paul G.: Replying to "This is a really goo…"
+1
 
01:06:19 Andrew Adams: Reacted to "This is a really goo..." with 👍
 
01:06:34 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "This is a really goo…" with ❤️
 
01:07:36 Sharon Fisher: Agreed - I love the asides to discuss practical application!
 
01:11:57 Vanessa: Same with Jacinta and Francisco Marto (Lady of Fatima)
 
01:12:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Therese's mother died when she was only five and she spent her whole life grief-stricken
 
01:15:30 Suzanne: Great points.
 
01:16:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "This is a really goo..." with ❤️
 
01:17:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:10 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:17:18 Suzanne: Ash Wednesday!
 
01:17:43 Suzanne: God bless all and God prosper our Lent!
 
01:18:12 Sharon Fisher: Many thanks!
 
01:18:18 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:18:19 Sophia: Thank you so much, fr.Abernethy. God bless you!
 
01:19:07 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Therese's mother die…" with 😞
 
01:21:29 Arthur Danzi: Thank you Father!
 
01:21:31 Steve Yu: I was having similar thoughts before joining tonight! I
felt too tired but I’m so glad I was able to make it! Thank God!
 
01:21:42 Vanessa: These classes are the highlight of my week🙂  Thank you
 
01:21:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank youfor persevering
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part VII and Hypothesis III, Part I

We turn now in the Evergetinos to consider the “avoidance of idleness”. With this, of course, we are compelled to consider the nature of work, and its connection to the spiritual life and our sanctification. 
Avoiding idleness is not simply keeping busy - much less busyness. It is something that allows us to prevent the mind and the heart from wandering from He who is the source of life, God. We are not angels.  We are called to provide for ourselves and also to provide for the poor. And so it is by the labor of our hands that we not only keep ourselves from becoming distracted - but enable ourselves not to become a burden to others and also to offer charity to those in need. 
Furthermore, keeping oneself from idleness also allows for the formation of virtues; obedience, self-control, ordering of the appetites, humility, etc. What is being presented to us, then, is connected to the overall portrait of what it is to be a human being; one whose life is directed completely toward God. The love that we have received and bear within us transforms everything about what it is to be a human being; to suffer, to love, and to work. It is our identity as Christians that must shape our perception of reality.
Text of chat during the group:
00:29:31 Michael Hinckley: Anthony's comment, or rebuke, hits the vainglory
 
00:35:03 Andrew Adams: What was the name of that commentary on St. Mark again?
 
00:38:32 Adam Paige: Fire of Mercy, Heart of the Word, the four-volume “Meditations on the Gospel According to St. Matthew” by Erasmo Leiva-Merikakis.
 
00:38:34 FrDavid Abernethy: Erasmo Merikakis
 
00:45:57 Michael Hinckley: can't over busyness, lack of focus be acedia
 
01:05:34 Rebecca Thérèse: The devil makes work for idle hands
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:53 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:06 Rachel: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part VI

After listening to a multitude of stories from the Evergetinos about responding to insults from others, the only response that one seems to be able to offer is a sigh; not a sigh expressing disbelief but rather wonder. This is the love and the grace that God offers to us at every single moment of our life. A synergy exists between our will (as simple as uttering a “yes” within our hearts to God), and the outpouring of His grace and compassion. Suddenly the unthinkable comes into view through our faith. We see, through experience, the Godly love that is not only offered to us but within us. 
One of the things that we often say to ourselves when we sin or when we respond to another who is wounded us is: “I’m only human!”  However, these are not just fanciful stories in the Evergetinos but rather signs of what God is capable of doing within the human heart and what he has made us by his grace. Through humbling ourselves, acknowledging the poverty of our sin, we are lifted up to love and show compassion to others as we have received from the Lord. 
The Desert Fathers are living icons of the gospel. They reveal to us this love, not primarily through their writings but rather through their lives. We in turn come to understand this not through reading but rather through experience. May God in his mercy draw us into his love and allow us to see him face-to-face!
 
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 37 number 4
 
00:44:10 Nypaver Clan: Screwtape Letters
 
00:44:49 Lee Graham: Sounds like CS Lewis’s “Screw Tape Letters”
 
00:54:03 Louise: How about psychopaths, praying for those damaging psychopaths? They seem pseudo-humans, that is, humans only in form but not in soul. They seem to be a window of the devils. I cannot pray for them. Am I wrong?
 
00:57:06 Rachel: When we sin, are we even being ehat it truly menas to be human? Even the "small" sins?
 
00:57:55 Sharon Fisher: So we pray that the Holy Spirit reaches them? That may be all I can muster in some cases. Is it enough?
 
00:58:31 Rachel: That is a beautiful prayer.
 
00:59:28 Lee Graham: Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.
 
01:00:05 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️
 
01:00:39 Vanessa: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️
 
01:01:57 Rachel: Imagine a masterpiece that has been defaced. Yet, by grace, God can restore His image in the sinner.
 
01:02:30 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️
 
01:03:38 Tracey Fredman: Jesus asks people in the gospels - he asked Solomon in a dream - and I believe he asks us, "What do you want me to do for you?" We can ask for grace to be able to pray for those who difficult for us to pray for.
 
01:04:19 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Jesus asks people in..." with ❤️
 
01:04:24 Vanessa: Reacted to "Jesus asks people in..." with ❤️
 
01:06:56 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Let there be peace o…" with ❤️
 
01:07:20 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Imagine a masterpiec…" with ☦️
 
01:07:31 Rachel: Wow.  How beautiful.
 
01:08:50 Amale Obeid: How do you overcome the fear of needing to work for money to survive when you’re otherwise completely ready to sell everything and follow God and devote your life day in and day out to Him? To honoring him, praising him, praying, reading about him, etc… It has
become hard to live in both worlds.
 
01:15:24 Rachel: I wish I could go! God bless you all
 
01:15:37 Steve Yu: Replying to "I wish I could go! G…"
Same here!
 
01:16:23 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:16:27 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much!
 
01:16:28 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:16:29 Suzanne: God bless everyone!
 
01:16:30 Adam Paige: Thank you Father !
 
01:16:38 Lee Graham: Brilliant, thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part V

Humility and selfless-love often bears no resemblance to what we hold in our minds as their meaning. It is only seeing these things through the grace that God gives us and what has been revealed to us in Christ that we begin to understand that Christ took upon himself all that is human and its burden. He is Humility. He entered into the depths of our hell and the hell of our sin not only the free us from death, but that we might not experience these things in isolation. In the darkest things of this world there is always the presence of He who is light. When this world offers us no consolation, it is Christ who embraces us. 
Humility, then, becomes our willingness to let go of the self and the self-image that we have created in our own minds and that has been distorted by our sin. It means to live in the truth of Christ who is self-emptying love. This will forever be a stumbling block in this world and to the human mind. Only faith can allow us to see the presence of Christ in our midst. Furthermore, it is only this selfless love of Christ within us the can bring healing and hope to others. When faith is reduced to an ideology or philosophy it becomes impotent. We must be willing to go, as it were, where angels fear to tread. We must be willing to enter into the depths of the sorrow of the world. Yet . . . we cannot do this so long as we cling to some worldly image of ourselves or perfection. We must die to self and sin and live fully to Christ. The cure for the human condition is and ever shall be crucified and humble love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:47 Michael Hinckley: to your earlier point, my guess is that saints the see being like Christ as an easy equation (1+1) , we see it as algorithms
 
00:46:03 TFredman: Personal experience with a Trappist monk who was very discerning - and helped to heal many souls, through simply sharing God's love repeatedly, consistently for many years - until the persons began to really believe the honesty in the gift of being loved - life-changing -
 
00:47:14 TFredman: Tracey
 
00:50:58 Susanna Joy: Being the presence of Christ's love over time by itself has the power to heal...yes...well said
 
00:52:56 Susanna Joy: Where 2 or 3 are gathered...there am I in your midst.  Christ's presence itself...
 
00:53:27 Sharon Fisher: This discussion reminds me off a woman who was taken hostage by a gunman — she retrieved her bible and spoke to him. (Baptist, I think, but still . . . ) If folks are interested, here’s the story:  https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/hostage-reads-purpose-driven-life-to-alleged-atlanta-killer/
 
00:54:07 Anthony: Replying to "This discussion remi..." 
 
 I believe I heard th...
 
00:55:26 Michael Hinckley: Didn't Francis say preach the gospel, use words if you have to
 
00:55:33 Anthony: That's a Spanish and Neapolitan type of image
 
01:05:23 Anthony: The multiplicity of my thoughts are showing me the necessity of praying - simple, like Jesus prayer - so as not to be exposed so much and dwell so much on thoughts.
 
01:06:04 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "The multiplicity of ..." with 👍
 
01:06:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "The multiplicity of ..." with 👍
 
01:08:25 Sharon Fisher: Is there a difference between when God confronts us with situations intended to humble us vs. situations when others exhibit their own free will, and we are unlucky recipients/bystanders?
 
01:13:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Jesus said that it is necessary that stumbling blocks come but woe to those from whom they come.
 
01:13:30 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much for leading this class, Father...your comments have been very helpful.
 
01:14:22 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you
 
01:14:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You I am always Blessed from all your teachings
 
01:14:32 Sharon Fisher: 😃
 
01:16:02 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Jesus said that it i..." with ❤️
 
01:16:21 Michael Hinckley: what's your wife's name soI can pray for her?
 
01:16:25 TFredman: God bless you, Steve, and your wife.
 
01:16:46 Steve Yu: Replying to "what's your wife's n…"
Hi Michael, her name is Ivette Valenzuela-Yu
01:17:14 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "what's your wife's n..."
 
santa pace for her
 
01:17:30 Steve Yu: Reacted to "santa pace for her" with ❤️
 
01:17:46 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "santa pace for her" with ❤️
 
01:18:03 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father..
 
01:18:05 Andrew Adams: Thanks Father and thanks everyone for sharing!
 
01:18:09 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:18:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part IV

Where is true freedom to be found? How do we recognize it within the human person? The fathers of The Evergetinos reveal it to us in a powerful fashion by speaking to us once again about humility and the manner in which we respond both to insults and to praise. 
Freedom comes from clearly seeing where true dignity and identity is found in ourselves and in others. We evaluate ourselves and others often by accidental qualities and external behaviors. As Christians, however, faith is meant to illuminate what we have become in Christ. We are called to something far greater than natural virtue. Grace builds on nature. Even the greatest kindness we could show another person or forbearance in the face of slight or insult is hardly recognizable and comparison to what our response must be in Christ. 
With the incarnation life has forever changed as well as our understanding of love and mercy. We cannot allow ourselves the too easy freedom of loving or hating others merely because of what they do or say to us. The only way that we are allowed to respond to another is to love them. 
This cannot be an abstract notion for us. We should believe it so deeply, embody it so fully, that “Contrarily, as though they entailed fearful death, the destruction of your soul, and eternal damnation, completely turn away from and despise all love of power and glory, and the desire for the various laudations of men“. I don’t think there is a stronger way of stating this!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:45:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Powerful stuff!
 
00:45:51 Amale Obeid: I’m newly relearning the Christian faith so I apologize if this is off track but it seems to me that the every reaction that is caused between the world or another person and myself is what I take to the vertical of the cross - between me and God. The horizontal between me and others is for their service only.
 
00:49:49 Vanessa: Goes back to love God and love thy neighbor (that includes love our enemies).
 
00:57:42 Sean: Is no. 6 against nature, I mean man is hierchical by nature, like troops of
apes
 
01:14:25 Rebecca Thérèse: It seems like sound advice to me and could protect people from abuse by narcissists who try to make others dependent on them for self-esteem. Also cults try to recruit people by love-bombing. Humility and level-headedness can protect from these things.
 
01:14:30 Amale Obeid: How do we actually practice this? Other than slowing down time so much to allow space for a slower reaction? Or do we ask God for this grace to recognize it immediately in the moment?
 
01:16:31 Rachel: I am thinking of how really truly seeing the other, and ourselves as living icons, realizing our dignity helps in a way to reign in inflated egos as we realize how it is a pure gift of God, It reigns in the anger that can rise up in reaction to mistreatment by the humbling reality of Whose image we are all made. Also, I wonder, how we approach God, and the Saints, if how we see God, the way we pray, the experience of our life in God affects how we react to praise or insult
 
01:18:27 Vanessa: Replying to "I am thinking of how..."
 
St. Francis of Assisi talks about how we can go beyond what is natural (feelings towards others) through love of God. A mark of holiness.
 
01:19:07 Rachel: Reacted to "St. Francis of Assis..." with 😇
 
01:19:33 Vanessa: Reacted to "Yes, that balance is..." with 👍
 
01:23:34 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..."
 
I erased it as you already said what I typed
 
01:24:03 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat!
 
01:24:14 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..."
 
😇
 
01:24:14 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:24:19 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much, Father. Blessings on your retreat. You will be in my prayers.
 
01:24:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:24:58 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:25:00 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..."
 
Thank you!
 
01:25:09 Louise: Have a great retreat !
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis II, Part III

If reading the gospel or reading the Fathers speak to us about walking the path of humility does not turn our life upside down, does not agitate the mind and the heart; and indeed, at times bring us to the place of atheism or the edge of sanity, then it is hard to imagine that it is Christianity that we are considering. We’ve grown so used to a evaluating what it is to be a human being and to live one’s life, the nature of self-esteem and self image, outside the context of the gospel that there is no longer anything recognizable as Christian.  Can we even answer the question, “What does it mean to be a Christian?“ Does the anthropology, psychology and spirituality of the desert Fathers find any place within our hearts or our vision of our life in this world? 
We see the Fathers willing to go to the depths of earthly hell in their pursuit of humility in order to be raised up to the heights of heaven. They came to understand that when one reaches for heaven by pride, one falls into the depths of Hell. This was not notional for them but real. Is our faith more than an idea? One of the reasons the fathers seem to so freely take this path of foolishness and absurdity is that they began to taste the freedom and the joy of the kingdom that comes through it. Where else do we find identity and dignity that cannot be taken away from us except with and in Christ?
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:12:10 Michael Hinckley: FR. I picked up A Guide to Living in the Truth. Thanks for the suggestion
 
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: The Michael Casey book?
 
00:12:39 FrDavid Abernethy: on Humility?
 
00:13:22 Michael Hinckley: Yes
 
00:14:27 Adam Paige: Reacted to "FR. I picked up A Gu..." with 👍
 
00:19:55 Lori Hatala: www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html
 
00:20:27 Lori Hatala: for Evergetinos books.
 
00:26:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "for Evergetinos book..." with 👍
 
00:40:08 Michael Hinckley: there is also an intense marketing that bombards of self help (non Christ focused) to recognize as soft attacks...
 
00:40:31 Vanessa: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 👍
 
00:40:49 Carol Roper: His response to the camel driver comment, his happiness, helps me understand the wisdom of the holy fool, who sometimes almost seems to provoke those comments from others. There’s a wisdom in seeing the disapproval of others as protective of one’s soul. I’m thinking of the movie ostrov
 
00:41:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 😖
 
00:42:04 Carol Roper: The island
 
00:43:15 Eric Ewanco: I think there is truth in the idea that the phenomenon of "low self-esteem" is really a hidden expression of pride
 
00:45:43 Michael Hinckley: Many times too self deprecating humor or a clamoring of being such a 'sinner" can also be forms of vanity, no?
 
00:45:51 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾
 
00:46:15 Michael Hinckley: I think Dom Lorenzo Scupoli warned against it.
 
00:51:26 Carol Roper: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾
 
01:01:53 Carol Roper: But given your previous comment about the tongues, it’s not foolishness it’s truthfulness…humility
 
01:02:14 Carol Roper: We’re just blind to the truth
 
01:05:12 Michael Hinckley: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish?
 
01:05:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Being considered a fool by all would bring someone closer to Christ because that person would not be distracted by the esteem of others. It's not so helpful being considered a fool by all if others think they need to fix you because this is also a distraction!
 
01:05:46 Eric Ewanco: How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role?
 
01:06:33 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "Being considered a f..." with 👍
 
01:07:24 Adam Paige: Replying to "How do we live this ..."
 
How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role?
I have the same question, since we're also encouraged to praise others in the professional environment
 
01:09:52 Sam: Shunning praise in a professional environment especially is hard but comments such as i could've done better help us....+  embracing humiliation or negative feedback... and only relying on + seeking God's mercy is the narrow path we need to walk...praying always ...a good start for us is the  Jesus Prayer.
 
01:10:06 Rebecca Thérèse: Replying to "How do we live this ..."
 
I think there may be a difference between praise and flattery. It's helpful sometimes to have positive feedback to know how well you're performing. I think it's also possible not to react to praise with pride.
 
01:11:01 Anthony Rago: Again....apprenticeship.  The Modern Era's emphasis on souls who are autonomous and blank slates to explore the world on their own has hurt all kinds of religious and secular vocations.
 
01:11:36 Vanessa: Reacted to "Again....apprentices..." with 👍
 
01:12:05 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Shunning praise in a..." with 👍
 
01:12:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I think there may be..." with 👍
 
01:13:13 Michael Hinckley: I need to drop Happy and Holy New Year to you all!
 
01:15:17 Adam Paige: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish?
Greek text of Evergetinos Volume II https://drive.google.com/file/d/14g2zvr-CSwHV5qmke5PHGGBAYYzWRNa9/view
 
01:16:23 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
 
01:17:04 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit!
 
01:17:05 mflory: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:13 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:16 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, Happy New Year everyone🙂
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis I, Part III and Hypothesis II, Part I

Once again, reading the fathers on humility is humbling. Gradually our eyes are opened to the nature and reality of virtue; not as human reason or understanding grasp, but as it has been revealed to us in Christ and through the gift of His Spirit. 
This stands forth most of all in thinking about humility among the virtues. It is not self hatred. It is not self contempt. It is living in He who is Truth. For this reason, both the Evergetinos and St. John Climacus describe humility as the “door to the kingdom” and to participation in the very glory of God. It is also for this reason that we discover that just as the proud feel satisfaction with honors so those who are humble of mind are especially thankful for the attacks and scorn which befall them in this world. 
Such things free us from illusion; not only the illusions we have about ourselves but also the illusions that others often form about us. To be thought of as virtuous and holy, when in reality one understands that all is Grace, can be the bitterest of things to swallow. To know oneself as loved with an everlasting love and having been shown the mercy of God makes the thought of evaluating oneself in any measure seem absurd.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 13 Letter G - Volume 2
 
00:18:21 Nypaver Clan: What page?
 
00:42:31 Louise: The Catholic protagonist of the movie entitled ''A Hidden Life'' (2019), a true story, is a beautiful example of humility. In 1943, he did NOT justify why he preferred to be tortured and killed by the SS, his compatriots, than signing an oath to Hitler. His heart belonged to Jesus Christ. His wife, also devoted to Christ, supported his decision despite the difficult hardship this brought to her and her three children. Two contemporary unknown saints!
 
00:43:07 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Catholic protago…" with ❤️
 
00:43:41 Michael Hinckley: Blessed Franz Jagerstatter
 
00:44:08 Michael Hinckley: yes that'shim
 
00:44:26 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Blessed Franz Jagers…" with 👌
 
00:58:19 Michael Hinckley: how much these storis show you must be prepared to be dressed down
 
00:58:20 Louise: Isn't the greatest test to stay facing praises?
 
01:01:26 Michael Hinckley: I can only imagine in the monastic life with having nothing of the world (clothes, possessions, etc.. ) that things like praise risks becoming currency.
 
01:08:06 Anthony Rago: Having lived in s Calvinist environment, alarm bells are going off in my head about this kind of humility.
 
01:08:42 Anthony Rago: We have to keep humility In  Tension with dignity.
 
01:08:54 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Having lived in s Ca…" with 😄
 
01:10:09 Sean: how often is one despised for humility vs. for being beyond  the pale of socially accepted behavior, crime, depravity etc. Equating the two seems difficult.
 
01:10:21 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "Having lived in s Ca..."
 
Great point!
 
01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: It's not easy to know the difference between heartfelt praise and flattery that's intended to manipulate so it's often better not to trust it
 
01:11:53 Michael Hinckley: One of the greatest deceptions is meekness equates weakness as apposed the fortitude.
 
01:12:51 Suzanne: I just read something today that said that the purer the heart, the more the soul sees God, and, the more it sees God, the more it understands its own wretchedness. This wretchedness is not a comparison with other men, but with the absolute purity of God.
 
01:15:25 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "It's not easy to kno..." with 👍
 
01:16:21 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "I just read somethin..." with
👍
 
01:17:17 Leilani Nemeroff: Dolores Hart 
https://vocal.media/viva/the-hollywood-actress-who-became-a-nun
 
01:17:37 Michael Hinckley: what was the book you mentioned again please
 
01:18:13 Suzanne: Great Stories tonight! Thank you!
 
01:18:35 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
01:18:41 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:18:46 Louise: hanks!!!
 
01:18:56 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks!
 
01:19:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:19:04 Michael Hinckley: good night all
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis I, Part II

In hypothesis 1 of book 2 of The Evergetinos, we continue to hear one story after another of the humility of the fathers. Again and again, what we find emphasized is the willingness to set aside the self and the ego. We cling so fiercely to a sense of self-esteem and religious identity that gives us a sense of value or elevates us in the view of others. However, as with so many of the virtues, we find the monks, loving humility; pursuing it precisely because of what it produces within the soul and the freedom that it brings. 
What it produces is not the perfection of virtue as we understand it. By letting go of the self, Christ lifts us up to share in his life and glory. Thus, we find repeated stories of monks trying to hide themselves and any recognition of their holiness by fleeing the company of men. Yet, so often they find themselves discovered because the very glory of God shines forth from their countenance. 
The opposite of vice is not virtue, but rather Christ living within us. We put on Christ. We are conformed to him by Grace. If the world is attracted to anything, it is to that reality. The monks understood this. The only thing they feared was being drawn away from the path of humble obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:58 Suzanne: I found the exact volume we're starting on kindle for $9.99
 
00:10:10 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I found the exact vo…" with 👍
 
00:10:22 Steve Yu: Excellent. Thank you!
 
00:10:53 Suzanne: I tried my mic. It doesn't work. Yes, Amazon kindle.
 
00:12:14 Suzanne: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZJGFSPL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
00:12:45 Steve Yu: Reacted to "https://www.amazon.c…" with ❤️
 
00:31:44 Adam Paige: The Kindle version of the Evergetinos is a different translation. I believe this is the one Father is reading from: https://a.co/d/fcClhxD
 
00:32:38 Suzanne: Replying to "The Kindle version o..."
 
Yes, I enjoy it.
 
00:33:02 Suzanne: Reacted to "The Kindle version o..." with 👍
 
00:34:11 Rod Castillo: Litany of Humility
 
00:35:03 Suzanne: Card. Merry del Val
 
00:38:03 Rebecca Thérèse: When St John of the Cross was in the final weeks of his life he had to go from is hermitage to a monastery for them to take care of him. He chose to go to Ubeda rather than Baeza because he was known in Baeza and he didn't want the attention his holiness would attract there.
 
00:45:52 Suzanne: Roman Discipline, Order, and Common Sense. The Church understands both the power of the official worship of the Church and the feebleness of human nature.
 
01:08:44 Suzanne: Thank you, Father!
 
01:08:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:08:46 Lorraine Green: Thank you FAther
 
01:09:33 Louise: Thanks, Fr.
 
01:09:34 Adam Paige: Thanks you so much, Father !
 

The Evergetinos: Book Two - Hypothesis I, Part I

We began this evening with page one of the second volume of The Evergetinos. In many ways, we pick up where we left off in the first volume with humility. However, we are given very explicit examples of those who are a model of the virtue. Perhaps it would be better said that they present us with an other-worldly manifestation of the virtue - the Holy Fool. 
Such individuals, so driven by the love for Christ, have set aside so completely self-esteem and reputation that their presence reveals the poverty,  inadequacy or complete lack of this holy virtue in others; especially those who deem themselves to be religious. 
To hear the stories of their lives almost knocks the wind out of the reader. The very presence of their sanctity brings down upon them the scorn and the abuse of others. They embody Christ’s teaching, “You will be hated by all because of my name.” They are hated because they embodied the humility of Christ, who counted reputation as nothing, emptied himself and became a servant, obedient unto death. 
It is hard to be in the presence of such individuals. Their hidden sanctity will still speak to the souls of those in their midst and provoke a reaction. The demons who guide and direct our thoughts will seek to make us mock and ridicule them and blind us to their true goodness. Thus, they provide us with a cautionary tale – that in our lesser moments we are capable of mocking the Lord in others, when we hold them in contempt. We are not so far from committing such unholy violence in our hearts, when we lose sight of the dignity of those around us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:02 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you! 
I am driving right now.
 
00:11:45 Suzanne: Can hear a pin drop!
 
00:12:55 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with 📌
 
00:13:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with ☺️
 
00:35:06 Rebecca Thérèse: The thing that people don't understand is that even if she had been a simpleton and their judgement of her was correct, they still shouldn't have treated her like that. "For inasmuch as you did it to the least of these..."
 
00:36:47 sharonfisher: It’s odd to me that the most holy among us behave this way.
 
00:36:57 Louise: Was she a victim soul?
 
00:39:02 maureencunningham: They did not see her
 
00:40:53 Suzanne: She reflected Christ's attribute of taking upon Himself the sins of mankind.
 
00:42:49 Lee Graham: No doubt, she forgave all those who abused her, lest they would have to live separated from God throughout eternity
 
00:43:16 sharonfisher: How is it that she feigned foolishness, 1st para. Was she testing them?
 
00:43:29 maureencunningham: Did the early church  run to be Marty
 
00:45:33 Anthony Rago: If she were foolish perhaps she was like Brother Juniper, companion of St Francis, very plain kind and simple. Perhaps even a little "touched" but that weakness became a strength by grace.
 
00:46:44 Suzanne: The Age of the Desert corresponds to the Age of Heresy, post persecution. It's a communal reparation.
 
00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "If she were foolish …" with ❤️
 
00:58:57 Sean: it would be hard to find someone who "longs to be loathed"...quite the opposite...
 
01:00:33 Rebecca Thérèse: The problem with being loathed is that people don't just loathe you and leave you alone, they're constantly bothering you with their loathing!
 
01:01:04 Suzanne: Reacted to "The problem with bei..." with ❤️
 
01:05:31 sharonfisher: I so agree, the West sometimes pays less attention to the saints than I would like. But in an effort to provide services that people (families) can actually attend, they have to cut somewhere.
 
01:07:37 Adam Paige: I think the West has emphasized the temporal cycle over the sanctoral cycle in recent years, but if the Office of Readings and the Martyrology could become more prevalent in the life of the church, that would go some way to helping
 
01:09:29 Anthony Rago: I was thinking this sounded like the charcoal saint!  Didn't Alexander also see Our Lady of Blachernae promising to protect the city from besieging barbarians?
 
01:11:54 Michael Hinckley: The West tends to get very Thomistic I believe.
 
01:13:16 Suzanne: Father, is it too late to ask a question about one of your FB posts?
 
01:13:37 Suzanne: You put up a quote from St. Symeon: “For unless a person has been trained in strict vigilance, so that when attacked by a flood of useless thoughts he tests and sifts them all … he is readily seduced in many unseen ways by the devil.” Presuming there is no human being available to train and guide you in learning to discipline your thoughts, how do you acquire this skill? Is there a book you can recommend that gives practical instruction on how to purify the thoughts?
 
01:14:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "You put up a quote f…" with ❤️
 
01:14:18 Suzanne: LOL!
 
01:14:38 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "LOL!" with 👍
 
01:16:46 sharonfisher: Thank you for not rushing us through this and allowing
questions and discussion. So valuable!
 
01:17:01 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ☦️
 
01:17:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ❤️
 
01:17:30 Sean: the coal carrier reminds me the movie the island
 
01:17:48 maureencunningham: Thank You Blessing
 
01:17:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "the coal carrier rem..." with 👍
 
01:17:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:17:58 Suzanne: Great meeting, and God bless you all!
 
01:18:00 Anthony Rago: Reacted to the coal carrier rem... with "👍"
 
01:18:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father
 
01:18:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ❤️
 
01:18:22 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ☦️
 
01:18:40 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you.
 
01:19:06 sharonfisher: And to your spirit!
 

The Evergetinos - Conclusion of Volume One

Tonight we read the final hypotheses of the First Volume of the Evergetinos. From beginning to end the volume and its teachings are as challenging as they are beautiful. 
The focus this evening was on our attachment to the things of this world; whether those things be the praise of men or material objects and clothing. As always the fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Their ability to touch upon the most subtle aspects of the passions and temptations is extraordinary. Even when we let go of material attachments we can cling to a kind of spiritual raiment. It takes a great deal of time and grace to break loose of the fetters that hold us; our desire for the pleasures of this world, both great and small. 
Even the monk can hold on to certain implements or clothing when there is no need for them other than the satisfaction that they offer in the possessing of them. Frugality and modesty in dress should be virtues that we love and cultivate. In a culture where there is an abundance of everything on demand. Our sharing in this has become habitual and it can be overwhelmingly difficult to overcome. What we see in the fathers is the constant reminder to adorn the soul. We are to store up treasure for ourselves in heaven.  It is  the poor that we have received that become our greatest advocates before the throne of God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:19:50 FrDavid Abernethy: page 414
 
00:36:13 Anthony Rago: The Island had a scene regarding the abbot having a coat of which he was too fond. He was eventually glad to be freed of that attachment by the "crazy" monk.
 
00:37:07 Suzanne: Over the course of my life, I have pretty much ruined every single thing I’ve ever put my hand to, because I simply cannot act except in order to draw praise from my performance. I’m aware of it, ashamed of it, but cannot put this passion to death. I don’t think I’ve ever employed a talent or ability with a pure intention.
 
00:37:52 Michael Hinckley: reminds me of the story of Alexander Magnus, once offered a cup of water in a time of dryness poured it out saying too much for one, not enough for many.
 
00:47:16 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Over the course of m..." 
 
 Perhaps "ruined" is ...
 
00:49:32 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
True, thank you.
 
00:50:09 Maureen Cunningham: Maybe they were not attached to anything in this world. And had no need for natural things . Only for the heavenly
 
00:50:51 Anthony Rago: Reacted to True, thank you. with "❤️"
 
00:51:37 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
@Suzanne when we give thanks to others it is also an act of charity. Fr is right magnanimity is a gift we are given to excel, in an orderly fashion
 
00:51:40 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
Father has a good nous. He actually hit the nail on the head. 😇
 
00:52:22 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..."
 
Thank you, Michael.
 
01:00:36 Maureen Cunningham: I have a. Question when I went to Rome I
 
01:01:15 Michael Hinckley: are not robes (clothes) tools as well. serve purposes, again ordered fashion. That which we labor in is not the wedding garment
 
01:01:28 Anthony Rago: About not making things you see that you like ....I can see not doing this out of envy. But making something out of love for doing something good and beautiful, or because it is an inherent vocation is a good thing.  I started my hobby because I saw a beautiful repousse picture and I just
knew I had to make something like that.
 
01:01:29 Maureen Cunningham: Questions when I went to Rome Saint Peter allot beauty not what the desert Fathers had why so different
 
01:03:04 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..."
 
In this culture, dressing well is a good work.
 
01:04:08 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..."
 
Dress like a lady, etc.
 
01:11:39 Anthony Rago: We live in a society without these reminders and we are pagans
 
01:12:43 Anthony Rago: I mean, no icons, no images in public....and without these reminders we are pagans
 
01:13:12 Michael Hinckley: need to drop santa note all
 
01:13:38 Suzanne: Replying to "About not making thi..."
 
It's true freedom to make something beautiful with a pure heart.
 
01:15:05 Anthony Rago: Reacted to It's true freedom to... with "❤️"
 
01:19:59 Louise: My mother used to tell me, ''Louise, if you do something , do it well, as if you are doing it for God.'' I try, I try.
 
01:20:09 Suzanne: This is a multi-faceted issue. Communism deliberately destroys beauty, and Christendom has beautified every human art form. I believe that beauty is absolutely necessary for public order.
 
01:20:21 Suzanne: Reacted to "My mother used to te..." with ❤️
 
01:21:17 Suzanne: And there's nothing more beautiful than a priest or monk in habit/cassock.
 
01:21:28 Anthony Rago: Reacted to This is a multi-face... with "👍"
 
01:23:36 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "And there's nothing ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:35 Sean: I need it and I'm unworthy, that's an interesting take on things. Humility.
 
01:27:41 Paul: Wow Great Instruction !  Whats next?
 
01:28:33 Suzanne: Reacted to "Wow Great Instructio..." with 👍
 
01:29:45 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:30:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much!
 
01:30:20 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:30:30 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! Thank you!
 
01:30:56 Louise: Yvette and Steve in my prayers.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLVI, Part I

We are drawing close to the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos. We’ve come to the end of a long journey; but in reality it’s just the beginning for us. The fathers began by having us meditate long upon repentance. This is the starting point. The turning from the self toward God for healing. 
Now at the conclusion of the volume our eyes gaze  upon the vision of humility. Again, it is not the humility of this world, but the humility of God. It is the humility of a love that empties itself in order to lift others out of their poverty and darkness. It is the love that thinks nothing of the self but seeks only the fulfillment the will of the beloved. 
We were shown this evening and number of aspect of this humility. The first is self-reproach. He who seeks the honor of God and finds his identity rooted in God is going to seek nothing of the honor and privileges of this world. We are reminded that “all flesh is as grass and all the glory of man as the flower of grass”. Everything within this world passes away. Why do we cling to it so tenaciously, and yet hold so little desire for the love that searches us out constantly. “Heart speaks to heart.” We let go of everything, including our own ego, in order that nothing might impede our capacity to hear God’s Word of Love.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:45:16 Sharon Fisher: Does that mean that if we were wholly aware of our faults and someone else called them out to us; we’d have already recognized and come to peace with them, and the accusation has no effect or sting?
 
00:48:43 Sharon Fisher: Turn the other cheek? Just allow them their feelings?
 
00:49:57 Steve Yu: Questions. Would praying for the spirit of repentance trigger humility? I ask because a constant state of humility seems like a difficult goal for me.
 
01:03:09 Suzanne: Just having to work in the world is a great opportunity to practice humility. How many times do we draw down upon ourselves the dislike and resentment of co-workers for no discernible reason?
 
01:14:35 Rory: Yes, 
heart speaking to heart
 
01:16:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
 
01:17:10 Sandy Nelson: Thank you
 
01:17:17 Suzanne: Thank you!
 
01:17:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:29 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!!
 
01:17:30 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VIII

What a privilege it is to read the fathers! As we are being drawn by them into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility, their vision of its beauty opens up before us. It is not something that only reveals the poverty of our sin and need for healing. Humility also reveals that we are made in the image and likeness of God. 
We should not see humility then from a negative perspective. It reveals also the highest truth about who we are as human beings. We are destined to share in the fullness of the life of God. Humility does begin by acknowledging the truth about ourselves and our need for healing. Over the course of time it is perfected by the struggles that we undergo and the great losses that we experience. Eventually, however, by the action of God’s grace it is brought to perfection and there exist within us no desire for sin and no lingering element of pride. We begin to see in that moment that humility is one of the qualities of our God. Suddenly our vision of the spiritual life changes. Everything is meant to draw us into the fullness of his life, virtue and love. Thanks be to God!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:02:33 Suzanne: Ave Maria!!
 
00:02:52 FrDavid Abernethy: Full of Grace
 
00:03:07 Suzanne: 😇
 
00:03:37 Suzanne: Father, did you get my email about St. Theophan series?
 
00:04:07 FrDavid Abernethy: Gee.  I don’t know.  I’ll have to go back and look.  So sorry
 
00:04:20 Suzanne: Ok!
 
00:04:34 FrDavid Abernethy: page 403 letter B
 
00:06:34 Suzanne: Father, have you seen the Russian movie, The Island?
 
00:06:57 Suzanne: I can't stop watching it!
 
00:08:03 Suzanne: I love the scene where he cures the attachments of the Abbot.
 
00:10:16 Suzanne: Mr. Yu, how is your wife?
 
00:32:33 Eric Ewanco: What does he mean by "discernment"? How might we wound the conscience of our neighbor?
 
00:34:05 Eric Ewanco: ok
 
00:36:52 Sean: what do you mean by to know the mind of God?
 
00:41:29 Louise: Does humility imply that I am ongoingly aware that I am necessarily defective and fallible, even if I try to be virtuous?
 
00:56:57 Suzanne: Lately I’ve been thinking more and more that we are infected with pride as children, by parents who show too much pride in our accomplishments or abilities. That’s where it begins, and the culture is more than happy to cement it into narcissism. It’s like an evil bond develops between affection and praise – so that affection is sought, not in accordance with nature and grace, but to satisfy pride. One’s heart contracts, no longer able to give itself in charity, because of the demands it places on others to give “excellence” it’s due.
 
00:58:33 Anthony Rago: This is soft. It's gentle.  It's like Dante's Paradise in which love is a force of motion.  I like this better than the way Roman Catholics of our time and country - not like the medievals like St Bernard - pass on the Faith.
 
01:00:11 sharonfisher: Re: earlier tonight - Opening the day with prayer and giving God first fruits is something I can relate to. To this point, I haven’t felt a purpose for early morning prayer (as opposed to prayer any other hour) — this resonates with me. I’m such a novice. Thank you!
 
01:00:35 Eric Ewanco: I agree with Suzanne. My mother was very proud of me, which fed my ego so much that my arrogance was off the charts. This alienated me from my peers and I never overcame it until high school. I literally didn't learn what the word "humble" meant until I was a teen. I loved her dearly but it was clearly deleterious. God saw fit that she passed away when I was 13, no doubt to spare me from the worst of it (that's terrible to say but as her son I can say it).
 
01:04:34 Lee Graham: When God reveals our defects of character, there  is no shame.
 
01:05:50 Suzanne: Father said, "Pride isolates." ABSOLUTELY!!
 
01:13:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂. Sorry I was so late, Zoom decided to update!
 
01:13:52 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:13:55 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father
 
01:13:59 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:59 Suzanne: Thank you so much for these groups!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VII

Coming towards the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos, it is clear that we are being nourished upon solid food. During these many weeks, the fathers have been leading us into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility. It is one thing to understand the definition of humility; even something as clear as “truthful living”. However, it is only in the illustrative stories that the fathers give us that we move from the realm of imagination, personal judgment and reason to see this virtue with the eyes of faith. What we are called to is the perfect humility of Christ; he who sought only to do the will of his heavenly father. Christ sacrifices himself for the sake of love. What we see in the stories is the subtlety with which we focus upon the ego even as we pursue things that are religious. We are presented in particular with a powerful story about Saint Anthony the Great. He is told that a cobbler in the city has reached a level of greater sanctity than he has despite his ascetic rigors. This cobbler saw himself as the least of all the people in the entire city and the most worthy of condemnation and judgment by God. He would tell himself this in the morning and at night. What is significant about this is that he does not compare himself with any other person in acknowledging this truth. Looking at God he can only see his need for mercy and for complete gratitude. Yet Anthony as great as he was and having sacrificed so much still had a question within his heart. Is there anyone out there who has attained a level of greater sanctity? At that moment, Anthony turns his gaze away from God in order to compare himself with others. He loses sight, if only for a moment, of God. To gaze only upon God and his love drives out every element of ego. There is only Christ!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 FrDavid Abernethy: page 400 para 76
 
00:09:41 Suzanne: LOL!!!
 
00:41:23 sharonfisher: I hope everyone knows about the Orthodox Christian Prison Ministry. Poor or wayward folks that end up imprisoned could benefit so much from the work these folks do. I feel like the prison cell could be substitute for a monk’s cell or the isolation of the desert fathers. (Not sure where this fits in the discussion, but seems relevant.)
 
00:42:11 sharonfisher: AGREE!
 
00:43:54 Michael Hinckley: St Thomas Moore choose to see his cell in the tower as such I believe.
 
00:46:24 Suzanne: I think that I've actually made myself sick from self-reproach because of my past. Thirty years of extreme desolation has warped my perception of God's love for my soul. Self-reproach can be a form of self-torture. The desert fathers is the first time anything I've come across has given me courage.
 
00:48:00 Lee Graham: Hear, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest.
 
01:12:13 Sean: Anthony's ego? gosh...he's called Great.
 
01:16:29 Sean: compare and despair
 
01:16:55 Steve Yu: Reacted to "compare and despair" with 👍
 
01:17:29 Maureen Cunningham: How do you not get into a self hate toward you life. did not the church father warn against self pity
 
01:18:46 Suzanne: Did you see the Russian movie, The Island, about the monk who was tortured by guilt, yet worked miracles?
 
01:19:17 Maureen Cunningham: Yes I saw movie wonderful
 
01:19:40 Suzanne: Incredible movie!
 
01:20:04 Nypaver Clan: Father, at the start of this discussion, you mentioned that the slightest turning toward God fills the heart with great Grace.  Likewise, the slightest turning away from God fills the heart with pride.
 
01:22:01 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you  Blessing prayers for you Father
 
01:22:09 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:22:12 Suzanne: Thank you so much!
 
01:22:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part VI

Is it possible for us to let go of our private judgment - to let ourselves be led by the Spirit of God into the Truth? As we read the teachings and the stories of the fathers on humility and how this virtue is embodied, the difficulty of letting go of our own perspective on virtue, and what it is must be abandoned. The virtue that we are called to is the virtue of Christ. Once again, we are not called simply to the perfection of natural virtue or what we can attain by human effort. It is by the grace of God alone that we can let go of self-esteem and ego. We will cling to these with fierceness despite having the truth set before our eyes; what we see on the Cross and receive in the Eucharist. We are unwilling to yield the things of this world for that which is eternal - for the pearl of great price.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Anonymous Sinner: What page are we on?
 
00:18:20 Nypaver Clan: 397
 
00:18:54 Anonymous Sinner: Thank you!
 
00:19:24 Louise: It reminds me of the Orthodox priest whose life is depicted in the film entitled A Man of God in 2021.
 
00:19:35 Eric Ewanco: Today I was tempted to respond angrily to someone. I needed to hear this today.
 
00:21:21 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "397" with 👍
 
00:23:32 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Today I was tempted ..." 
 
 Lol...me too
 
00:25:36 Louise: Psychologically, forgiveness is seen as letting go of anger. Would you say that it is more than this?
 
00:29:18 Susanna Joy: I came home and a person who has been harrassing and unapologetic was sitting in my kitchen having a happy chat with my dearest friend here in the community. 
I could even get my tea water to boil...trying to let it go...
 
00:29:45 Susanna Joy: *could not even
 
00:30:18 Susanna Joy: Came straight to class
 
00:33:03 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
00:35:58 Anonymous Sinner: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
 
00:36:05 Anonymous Sinner: Romans 8:26-27
 
00:42:20 sharonfisher: Do you have a good book reference for understanding spiritual warfare? Whether by the Holy Fathers or more current? I have a hard
time really getting the concept.
 
00:43:17 Louise: ''Dominion'' by Fr. Chad Ripperger explains spiritual warfare.
 
00:43:34 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..." with 👍🏼
 
00:44:19 sharonfisher: Replying to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..."
 
🙂
 
00:44:38 Ashley Kaschl: “Discernment of Spirits” by Fr. Gallagher is good (it’s a purple book) 
 
And 
 
“Spiritual Warfare and The Discernment of Spirits” by Dan Burke
 
Those are good books to start with 🙏
 
00:45:33 Nypaver Clan: Was I the only one who thought the demon would enter the Elder since he said HE was the “goats”?
 
00:46:19 sharonfisher: Reacted to "“Discernment of Spir..." with 😃
 
00:47:18 Anonymous Sinner: I haven't read it, but my friend Paul Thigpen wrote the book "Manual For Spiritual Warfare", which I have heard is good
 
00:48:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "I haven't read it, b..." with 🙂
 
00:48:52 Suzanne Romano: 😅
 
00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "😅" with 😂
 
00:57:08 Eric Ewanco: Are we sure he *didn't* commit the sin of fornication, in perhaps the sense of in his heart?
 
01:04:02 Louise: Was this man, by prostrating toward the offender, signifying his surrender to God's will?
 
01:04:38 sharonfisher: One of the reasons I haven’t been doing prostrations in prayer is that the area rug is knobby and hard on my knees. I need to rethink that reasoning . . .
 
01:05:13 linda murton: prostration becomes like the groaning when no words sufficed?
 
01:07:52 linda murton: groaning refered to Abba Siscoes earlier,
 
01:14:57 Susanna Joy: Thank yoiu, Father.🙏🏻
 
01:15:01 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!
 
01:15:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:08 Suzanne Romano: Thank you!
 
01:15:35 Susanna Joy: Spirit will guide you
 
01:15:40 sharonfisher: Tell us about it next time!
 
01:15:41 Susanna Joy: Will be praying
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part V

We were turn once again to the most important of virtues - humility. Despite the repeated sayings about humility and the many illustrative stories, one does not have a sense of the “same thing” being said over and over again. Rather, humility is like a precious gem. Through the writings and the sayings of the Fathers we revolve around it, allowing the light of Christ to illuminate every facet of this virtue. The Fathers want us to understand that even our virtue must be perfected by the grace of God. It is precisely this reality that we see manifest in the struggles of the Fathers to obtain it. It is so precious that one should be willing, as it were, to sell all to possess it. In this sense, humility is a willingness to let go of the self, the ego, in order that we might keep our minds and our hearts fixed upon Christ. It is by His grace alone that we are saved and it is by imitating His humility that the demons are overcome.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:39:05 Louise: Could you talk about the fear of God versus being in love with God?
 
00:49:39 Louise: Could we say that someone under a spell can be blinded by the spell of the demon so to have pride regarding how one is great in serving the demon without realizing it?
 
01:03:13 Louise: St. John says, "Do not love the world or anything in the world"? St. James seems to take it a step further when he writes, "Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." St. John also says, "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
 
01:13:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:35 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you🙂" with 👍
 
01:14:51 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part IV

How beautiful is the path that the Lord sets before us to draw us to Himself. Its beauty is rooted in the fact that it is the path that He took toward us. God reveals himself, He draws back to the veil, and shows us the depth of his humility, love and compassion. What we find in the desert fathers and in their sayings is a portrait of the gospels; more specifically a portrait of Christ himself - the humble crucified One.
We should never fear humility but rather gravitate towards it. It is something that we should love and cultivate precisely, because we know that it is part of the nature of God and His love, and that it unites us to Him. Whatever truth we acknowledge about ourselves, no matter how dark, it unites us to He who is Truth. This is the pearl of great price! It is the virtue that we should desire above all things and guard and protect as most precious.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:11 sue and mark: car caravan
 
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 391 para 31
 
00:28:48 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: 34 reminded me of a statement that often strikes me:
 
00:28:59 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It was said of Abba Macarius the Great that he became, according
to the writings, a god on earth, because in the way God protects
the world, so Abba Macarius would hide the faults he saw as
though he had not seen them, and the faults he heard about as
though he had not heard of them.
Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
00:36:59 Maureen Cunningham: Tree in Garden , once they ate they knew and then hid from God.
 
01:06:08 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Listening to this talk of humility, I wonder. I can at times act humbly on the outside, but I don't know what humility feels like. I'm not sure how one acquires humility on the inside, or lives consistently this way. Is becoming humble becoming like God? The only thought that comes to me is to be still and stare at God until He Himself ignites or consumes me. I don't think I know how to be humble
 
01:12:19 sue and mark: thank you Fr. abernethy.
 
01:12:20 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:12:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part III

Synopsis of Tonight’s Group on The Evergetinos:
We often hear the question: “How would you describe the taste of honey to another who has never had it or the taste of a pear or its texture?” We might ask the very same questions about the virtues and in particular that of humility. How do we describe something that another has never tasted or that we have barely tasted ourselves? More importantly, how do we describe something that expresses not natural virtue, but the virtue of Christ himself - that describes the Divine life. 
What is so striking about the desert fathers’ writing is that it brings the gospel alive. It becomes impossible for us to make the words that we hear as flat as the page upon which they are written. Suddenly they become embodied in a rich and powerful way through the lives of the Saints. They beckon us, like Christ, to take hold of what endures, to thirst for the love and virtue that leads us to intimacy with God, and to experience the true joy of the kingdom.
---
00:06:43 Paul: Hello
 
00:26:06 Louise: I do not know how to address with humility the fact that a friend has a picture of Moloch on the wall behind her when we talk on Zoom. She has always been fascinated by horror movies. I am worried that she worships the demonic, unconsciously. She says that she does not believe in God and does not know what happens after death, but she believes in the paranormal. She knows my devotion to Jesus Christ. Do you have an idea, Fr. David?
 
01:09:57 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 
01:10:03 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father!
 
01:10:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:10:29 Alexandra K: Thank you Father!
 
01:10:54 Noha’s iPad: Thanks 🙏
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLV, Part II

Humility is above all the other virtues.” Living in the truth allows for the most important thing to emerge in a person’s life – repentance. When we see and acknowledge the nature of our actions and our thoughts and we bring them before God, it is then that He can heal us and make us whole. 
The struggle to do this, however, can be great. There’s always part of us that wants to hold on to the illusion of creating our own dignity and identity. Humility compels us to acknowledge that all things begin and end with God. We certainly have our role to play in the Divine drama; however, one can have all the virtues and appear to be saintly, yet if they are lacking the virtue of humility, none of these virtues will bear fruit. If an individual is like the publican coming to the temple beating his breast and realizing that there is no virtue in him at all immediately he is justified in the eyes of God. He’s let go of the lie of the Evil One. 
We cannot take for ourselves what belongs to God alone. He is life and love and truth, and it is his mercy that allows us to participate in this reality. To be humble, to see ourselves as nothing of note, cost very little but promises everything in return.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 387
 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: no. 7
 
00:12:07 Jason: Good evening Fr and everyone
 
00:34:42 sharonfisher: But doesn’t opening with “How’s your prayer life?” seem like a pre-judgment that they aren’t attentive enough? “How are you doing?” can be sincere, but also allow individuals to share at their own comfort level. (Not trying to be contrary, but I maintain my own faith and am wary of coming across as holier-than-thou. Sorry, late comment to last segment.)
 
00:36:14 sharonfisher: I see - thank you!
 
01:03:43 alexandramucerino: We cannot forgive we do not first accept the injustice
 
01:05:26 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sometimes I'm quick to jump into problem-solving or project management in my life or ministry or others' lives. I'm wondering if the practice of humility would recommend that I stop and ask first, is this where God is working? It seems that I've been noticing God at work in subtle ways in my or others' lives, but not necessarily in what I think is more important or expedient. I'm wondering about humility here.
 
01:15:41 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:15:46 sharonfisher: And to your spirit! Thank you !
 
01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: thank you
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:15:56 sue and mark: thank you God bless.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIV, Part III and Hypothesis XLV, Part I

Humility often eludes us not only in practice but in our ability to understand it. As always, we have to look to Christ as the standard. What we see revealed in him through the incarnation and in the Paschal mystery opens the door for us to begin to walk this same path. 
Understanding comes through experience. We must be shown what humility is and be made humble through experience. So often the self seeks to place itself at the center of existence; and in our spiritual life we begin to lose sight of God. Even in the pursuit of sanctity, we can fail to see the ways that we are lacking purity of heart. We often do not desire God above all things, or make him the beginning and end of all that we do. We may toil but to no end. 
Having said this, the stories from the fathers begin to reveal to us the distinctive marks of humility in a man. These stories show us why it is not only the most important virtue but also the most powerful. It overcomes all that is demonic. The more we trust solely in the grace of God, the more we abandon ourselves to his mercy and acknowledge the poverty due to our sin, the more his grace transforms us and acts through us and touches the lives of others. Humility and its perfection goes beyond truthful living or acknowledging the truth about ourselves. It is having eyes only for God. It is living in him and for him in every measure.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:23 FrDavid Abernethy: page 385 paragraph 6
 
00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 384 para 6
 
00:25:02 Anthony: Emphasis on kindness....sounds like something St Gabriel of Georgia said.
 
00:38:56 Anthony: Yes
 
00:38:56 Jacqulyn: Yes
 
00:46:31 Louise: Would the Desert Fathers agree or disagree with the following. Hating sins makes us ''relate'' to sins and instills hatred inside of us. I prefer to practice detachment from sins, as much as possible, and feel sorrow at having turned my back to God.
 
00:54:48 Lee Graham: As I forgive someone who hurts me, I see my sin disappear.
 
01:13:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIV, Part II

Every generation, every person, must be made humble!  Whatever way that takes place - whatever means we are shown this, it must happen if we are to follow Christ, and if we are to live in Him. He is Humility because he is Truth. In fact, the simplest definition of humility for us is truthful living. We must live in the Truth that has been revealed to us - we must live in Christ. 
That sounds a lot easier than what it is. Our egos often snap back into the center. The self, even within the context of the spiritual life, wants to be recognized as having value and strength. We want to have the perception of lifting ourselves up out of the mire. 
It is a humbling thing in and of itself to be saved. To acknowledge a savior means that we acknowledge the truth of our own poverty and sin. It means that we must acknowledge that we are not the source of life and love. God gives it to us so freely and with such gentleness and yet we can resent Him for it. Christ endures all things for us. He makes himself so small so as to be non-threatening; that is, he gives himself to us as our very food and drink. He nourishes us upon himself and his love. Yet pride can blind us to it all. God wants no “thing” from us. He wants us. Sadly, to say “yes” to that love can be one of the hardest things of life.
 
----
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:41:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: After years of working professionally in the US, I'm formed to believe that results indicate that I'm doing the right thing. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that God could see my failure as beneficial. Or that feeling like a failure could have some value.
 
00:57:20 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that consolation outside of relationship with Christ could even be an impediment in the spiritual life.
 
01:11:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Is it that the people you quoted are telling us that we need to realize that humility is actually an attribute of God he shares with us.
 
01:15:32 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
 
01:15:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLIII, Part II and Hypothesis XLIV, Part I

I can say this without any caveat - reading the Evergetinos is one of the most important things that we could do for ourselves in the spiritual life. I know that might sound extreme; especially given all of the writings of the Fathers that we have read over the course of the years, including the writings of the Philokalia. 
Yet, there’s something exceptional about the Evergetinos. We are not only given specific teachings but we are shown the lived experience of the fathers; how they came to understand things in the way that they did about the human person, the struggle with sin, and the action of God’s grace. This became especially apparent in this evening’s group. Our focus, in particular, was on the virtue of humility. After pondering the sayings of the Fathers - that the truly wise individual is the one who has control over his volition, who seeks in every way to make his will subject to God and understands that the will of God is advantageous to him in a manner surpassing all human understanding. 
In and of itself this is beautiful and speaks to the heart. However, we segued into a story from the life of Saint Pachomius describing the birth and development of humility in the soul of one of his monks Simvanos. Suddenly all the truths we read about came to life. We move from the notional to the real very quickly. The human mind and our tendency towards rationalization easily draws us back to a worldly way of perceiving reality. Whereas the lives of the Saints reveal to us the heart of man and God; what it is to be created in the image and likeness of God, what it is to neglect that truth, and the beauty of the soul that emerges when the grace of God brings healing where once there was only sin.
---
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:30 FrDavid Abernethy: page 377 Letter B
 
00:05:57 Jason: I do not have the text, but am looking to purchase soon
 
00:06:29 FrDavid Abernethy: Jason that’s fine.  We read the text as we go along
 
00:06:48 Jason: Reacted to "Jason that’s fine.  …" with ❤️
 
00:08:24 Jason: I am a catechumen in my local Orthodox Church, I do hope that I am still able to attend these
 
00:08:49 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..."
 
Absolutely!
 
00:09:12 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..."
 
You are not our only Orthodox/nearly Orthodox by any means 😊
 
00:09:14 Jason: Reacted to "Absolutely!" with ❤️
 
00:09:21 Jason: Reacted to "You are not our only…" with ❤️
 
00:10:00 Susanna Joy: Oh, wow...Congratulations, Father! Sounds wonderful.🎉🙏🏾😊
 
00:34:22 Anthony: Som people like me have a strong g attachment to duty. And to be incompetent to fulfill perceived duty is very difficult.
 
00:56:56 David Fraley: Reacted to "Som people like me h…" with 👍
 
01:03:32 Louise: Would you say that he developed humility because he was humiliated and accepted it due to the love embedded into the humiliation.
 
01:09:45 Anthony: I guess this answers a duty driven person. If you just can't find a way to complete duty, you can either become vicious to attain the goal or accept the humility borne from inability to complete the duty.
 
01:17:18 Maureen Cunningham: Poor in spirit
 
01:18:35 Maureen Cunningham: Life is potter's wheel
 
01:18:50 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾
 
01:18:52 Rachel: Thank you a thousand times.
 
01:19:11 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand…" with 💕
 
01:19:25 sue and mark: Thank you Father A.  Good night.
 
01:19:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand..." with 💕
 
01:19:41 Louise: God bless you, Fr.
 
01:19:42 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:19:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you
 
01:19:43 Melissa Kummerow: You too!
 
01:19:44 David Fraley: Thank you, Father.
 
01:19:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part IV and Hypothesis XLIII, Part I

One of the most difficult things about the faith is not simply desiring God with all of our heart, but allowing God and His desire for us to transform us and shape us. It means allowing Him to draw us into His own life and virtue. We are to become in the world what He is to us. 
Therefore, we are immediately confronted with the fact that we have to let go of the limited powers of our own reason and judgment. We must place our faith and hope in the providence of God to guide us along the path that leads to salvation. Like Saint Peter there often comes a time in our life when another binds us and leads us where we do not want to go. There will likely be many occasions when we are called to die to self and sin and to live for God alone  - come what may.! 
The afflictions that we bear and our desire NOT to force our will upon others can only emerge from this reality. We must put on the mind of Christ. We must become what we receive in the holy Eucharist. All that we suffer must be seen as united to Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. Christianity is about as far from being a philosophical system or ideology as something could be. It is Divine Life and Love.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:01:48 FrDavid Abernethy: page 374
 
00:02:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Susanna
 
00:02:15 FrDavid Abernethy: Facebook friend :-0
 
00:02:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Facebook friend :-0" with ☺️
 
00:02:49 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.
 
00:02:57 FrDavid Abernethy: You’re very welcome
 
00:41:30 John: Would making asceticism an end in itself a type of obeying the letter of
the law, rather than the spirit?
 
00:42:31 Susanna Joy: This is very helpful advice for me right niw, as I have been staying at my friend's spiritual community, and being so distressed at members'  contentiousness...wondering what to do and stay cenetered/bring a spirit if peace
 
00:42:50 Susanna Joy: *spirit of peace
 
00:46:15 Susanna Joy: Yes...exactly. .. Love must return to its Source in order to flow ever onward...
Remembering to turn to Christ in these moments
 
00:49:02 TFredman: (My name is Tracey) The hardest Lent I ever had was when my spiritual director suggested a different type of fast - a fast from just what we are talking about. Taking his counsel to heart, I decided that a contentious coworker would not disturb my peace and I would love her - oh yes, she was my Lenten project. It was incredibly difficult. She did her best to destroy me and to talk about me to others and to in effect destroy our "team" during the most difficult season of our work. I suffered through that Lent and beyond more than I can express. But through it all, I was at peace and grace followed.
 
00:51:52 John: At a retreat in June, I was given a Holy Card with a prayer of St. Charles de Foucauld: An Act of Abandonment: "Father, I abandon myself into Your hands. Do with me what you will. Whatever You may do, I thank you. I am ready for all, I accept all. Let only your will be done in me, and in all Your creatures - I wish no more than this, O Lord. Into Your hands I commend my soul; I offer it to Thee with all the love of my heart, for I love you, Lord, and so need to give myself, to surrender myself into Your hands, without reserve, and with boundless confidence. For You are my Father. Amen.
 
00:52:43 carol nypaver: 🙏🏼
 
00:53:22 Alexandra K: Amen..
 
00:55:59 Anthony: I agree with the feeling of loss. There's an interesting verse in Sirach or Wisdom,  I think, "Let not th eunuch say 'I am not fruitful.'" It's a verse pointing to Abraham 's hope in an impossibile situation.
 
00:57:09 Louise: A woman I know ask the Beloved to teach her unconditional love. After few months, her 30-year husband announced her that he was leaving for a younger woman. What an opportunity to react with unconditional love!
 
00:59:00 Louise: ''asked''
 
01:05:36 carol nypaver: Is it important to discern whether it is atonement for sin or a test?
 
01:10:01 John: These experiences of painful, crushing long-suffering remind me of what Cardinal Merry del Val prayed for in his Litany of Humility: http://catholictradition.org/Litanies/litany55.htm
 
01:10:36 Anthony: The Gospel insinuates some Jews called St Mary a very bad name.  That must have been hard to bear.
 
01:12:16 Alexandra K: And during this past year of contentiousness i have been praying The cardinal s litany of humility.     Watch out you ask for!
 
01:14:08 Sheila Applegate: Do we really want "thy will to be done" because does that not mean he wants us humbled..and like Him. We don't, mostly.
 
01:18:13 Sheila Applegate: Ouch.
 
01:18:25 maureencunningham: Thank You
 
01:19:01 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾
 
01:19:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father
 
01:19:03 John: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:09 sue and mark: good night thank you
 
01:19:14 Alexandra K: Ty
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part III

Being thrown off balance! The experience of vertigo! This is what comes to mind when considering the writings from the Evergetinos this evening. Once again, the gospel is put before us in an unvarnished fashion. It is as if through the unclouded vision of the fathers suddenly the truth of the gospel appears before us and all of its starkness. We are to love and to become love. It is this reality that must shape and form our interaction with every person we encounter. It suggests a kind of vulnerability where we seemingly leave ourselves exposed to the world around us and its malice. So easily does the Evil One whisper in our ears, “If you give yourself in such a way, you will undoubtedly find yourself impoverished.” “Would God really ask such a thing from you?”  Such thinking makes us very calculating about our lives. We are comfortable with boundaries and sometimes the religious boundaries, the walls that we put up around ourselves in the name of God are the highest and thickest of them all. 
Yet, we always have before us Christ crucified - arms outstretched and hanging naked upon the cross. He is mocked in the same way that our own hearts mock the truth when we shrink away from its demands in horror. To “think” about unconditional love always allows us to remain one step removed. If we keep the faith notional, we do not have to live it. The fathers, however, allow us no such luxury. Nor did they have confidence in their own virtue or rectitude. Humility understands one thing – all is Grace. This will forever compel us to look upon others with the generosity of God and ourselves as the recipients of incalculable and unmerited mercy.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:10 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com
 
00:24:14 LauraLeigh: Not sure how to do this in real life. Last week, I pitched a battle at work, and won. And it was no petty matter. I think it takes a lot of wisdom, a lot of discernment, to do this well. Me, I was lucky.
 
00:26:37 LauraLeigh: Thankfully, it wasn't about the Faith.
 
00:28:13 Louise: We lost you Fr.
 
00:28:14 carol nypaver: Yes
 
00:30:02 Eric Ewanco: “Here the parallel holds good—it is as absurd to argue men, as to torture them, into believing.”
 
Newman, John Henry, Sermon III, The Usurpations Of Reason, Preached December 11, 1831. MATT. 11:19, Sermons, Chiefly On the Theory of Religious Belief, Preached Before the University of Oxford (London: Francis & John Rivington, 1844), p. 48
 
00:52:02 Anthony: I do have a concern.  I don't want to be a sucker and I resent having been taken for a sucker. That helps drive my engaging religious  and cultural discussions and it's why I'm careful in what charitable works I agree to do.
 
01:00:33 Maureen Cunningham: What about the  Book  The Way of the Pilgrim  Hw would say the Jesus Prayer in silence
 
01:03:12 Paul Fifer: I see people walk in for help with food, gas, or money quite regularly.  Many I know for a fact are gaming the system and it really gets to me at times.   I have this quote written down from Mother Theresa to reflect on for those times. “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.”
 
01:20:19 LauraLeigh: I love this message, but in the moment, I forget them.
 
01:23:41 John: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part II

If I were to give a title to this evening’s session, it would be “What is the place of the Christian in a post-Christian culture? Even better, “What is the place of the Christian in an age of nihilism? When we begin to consider our conduct in relationship to others, how we are to conform ourselves not simply to a law or teaching but to Christ himself, we are confronted with something quite radical. We are to meet insults, hatred, misunderstandings and aggression with humility.  Love is always meant to trump the other things that we hold on to with a firm grip; our own judgment, our own will, our own opinion and the satisfaction of our own desires above the needs of others. 
What we are presented with in the teachings of the fathers is rooted in the capacity of the soul for true discernment. The one who is pure of heart is able to see things as God sees them and so see their true value. Therefore, the fathers tell us that in this world we should take the place of a “stranger”; that is, not seeking to have the first word or seeking to have any desire at all except the desire for God and that which draws us toward Him. We are to bend like a reed in the wind when it comes to our relationships with other people. What value does our personal opinion have or the acceptance of some truth that we speak that is greater than love? To stand up against the winds is to court danger; it is to give rise to quarrels and cause trouble.
If we want to live with others, we are not to desire to give them orders, but like Christ we are to become an example of obedience. Even as we read the fathers, we must keep Christ before eyes for he is the standard. In the end, it was His actions that revealed a perfect obedience; an obedience rooted in love and willing to empty itself and take on the form of a servant. We are to strive for this alone – that our love would be cruciform.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 370 no. 6
 
00:26:54 Louise: Could we say that, when meeting someone, shaking hands indicates a willingness to welcome the other, to allow a certain form of intimacy and to trust that the other is clean (especially 100 years and more ago when hygiene was questionable)?
 
00:49:03 Maureen Cunningham: Why is  Letting Go soooooo Hard
 
00:54:55 Ren Witter: I love this story sooo much
 
00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: They just needed Twitter.
 
00:55:37 Patrick: 😄
 
01:06:38 Louise: We have to be ready for ridicule, persecution and even martyrdom.
 
01:12:35 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You,
 
01:13:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Powerful stuff!
 
01:13:29 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:13:31 Alexandra K: Thank you Fr
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLII, Part I

“In the deserts of the heart Let the healing fountain start.”
W.H. Auden (1907-1973) 
“The road of cleansing goes through that desert. It shall be named the way of holiness.”
Isaiah 35.8 (LXX)
It has been said that all true renewal within the life of the church comes through the desert fathers, or rather through the embrace of their wisdom. For it is not a worldly wisdom but the wisdom of the gospel, the wisdom of the kingdom that they set before us; not in an abstract fashion but through lived experience. 
The desert fathers looked deep within; precisely where Christ directs us to search for the kingdom. It’s not an easy thing to do; to look deep within oneself. Often what begins to emerge can seem ugly and repulsive to us. Sin has not left us untouched. We know its darkness, its suffering, and how it shapes the way we view ourselves, the world, and others. 
However, this inward gaze and the ascetic life aids us in seeing with a greater clarity not only our sin but the image of something beautiful beyond imagination; the soul made in the image and likeness of God, transformed and transfigured by his grace. Even in the midst of the struggle, the beauty of God‘s mercy and grace begins to manifest itself, and to reshape the human heart. We begin to understand that the perfection to which we are called is not moral perfection; nor is it the perfection of our natural virtues. It is to share in the very life of God. Christ strength is to become our strength. His virtue is to become our virtue. 
It has been said the Christ is the most beautiful of all human beings. In him, we see what we shall be through the grace of God. All that is dark in us, all that becomes an impediment to our ability to love gradually begins to fade away. We no longer cling to the demands of our own will or the pettiness of our ego. We begin to see that in Christ we have all and lack nothing. It is in this realization that we become truly free and capable of love. How beautiful!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:20 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367
 
00:13:23 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367
 
00:20:45 John: Kind of reminds me of the Jews who went out to see John the Baptist to ask who he was - though I don't think they were being critical.
 
00:20:59 Ren Witter: For Father David’s favorite comic about Stylites: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=6720341144666823&set=pb.100000730124605.-2207520000.&type=3
 
00:21:39 John: Reacted to "For Father David’s f..." with 😂
 
00:51:35 iPhone (61): What page or book are we on Blessings
 
00:56:07 Rachel: 🤪
 
00:56:35 Rachel: I love that story.
 
00:56:37 Ren Witter: Can I say that to the next person who yells at me? “Imitate the Statue” :-D
 
00:58:46 Rachel: Fun. :/
 
00:59:06 Rachel: Reacted to "Can I say that to ..." with 👍
 
00:59:10 iPhone (61): I think we are suppose become like the statue.
 
01:02:39 Ashley Kaschl: This might be a leap in relation to this analogy with the stone statue but I have been having conversations about Filial Confidence in God. Isaiah 50:7 says, “The Lord God is my help, therefore I am not disgraced; Therefore I have set my face like flint, knowing that I shall not be put to shame.” If the monks in this passage agree to both enter into this life combatting their lower faculties which suggests doing battle against disordered sensibilities, then it also relates to the grace of an inflexible resolve that, no matter what happens to them, all is passing away compared to eternal glory in Christ; they have set their faces like flint against all struggles that may come. I think the goal, then, is to enter into ourselves and do battle so as to become docile and not react in the extremes, to repose ourselves like children in the arms of our Heavenly Father.
 
01:02:49 Rachel: You cant project it on to Christ. The all innocent and Perfect One.
 
01:05:16 Rachel: Reacted to "This might be a le..." with ❤️
 
01:05:33 Ashley Kaschl: Yes! That is what I meant by docile as well. Not a
passivity but one who can be directed or taught as you said 😁🙏
 
01:07:44 Alexandra K: Reacted to "This might be a leap..." with 👍
 
01:08:56 John: A bit ironic that flint produces a spark when struck by steel or something similar. However, docility implies that this spark is not anger, but charity.
 
01:09:08 iPhone (61): Guilty of all these that you mentioned.  I am grateful
 
01:09:15 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl…" with 🔥
 
01:11:16 Alexandra K: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 👍
 
01:12:22 Sheila Applegate: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 🔥
 
01:12:28 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Guilty of all these …" with 💯
 
01:17:06 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 🙏💖
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLI, Part III

The conclusion of hypothesis 41 was as beautiful as it was convicting. The fathers speak of a stability of mind and heart that deepens through the ascetic life and allows us to see the most subtle movements either toward or away from God. This subtlety of perception is unmatched in the spiritual tradition. The ascetic life revealed to the fathers not only sin and its manifestations, but the power of God’s grace to transform our lives in such a way that every impediment is removed that prevents us from loving unconditionally. The ascetical life is not an end in itself. It allows us to “ascend the cross”, the fathers tell us. The purity of heart that is achieved through it, the freedom from the passions, allows us to love in a self-emptying fashion, and to truly abandon ourselves to the will of God. Every illusion is set aside and one gradually comes to see with greater and greater clarity that “all is grace”. It is then that the desire for God compels us in our every word, thought, and action!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:38 Anthony: Perhaps something should be allowed for different characters or temperaments. Maybe this is a reason Westerners have different orders.
 
00:30:05 Louise: Was the Ethiopian a demon or a hallucination?
 
00:43:12 maureencunningham: Longest road is from the head to heart
 
00:50:34 Ernest: So doesn’t it help to have a spiritual director to regularly guide your path.
 
00:54:06 John: There's a book called "Talking Back" by Evagrius which has a variation of mocking evil thoughts: he supplies verses of Scripture against a whole variety of evil thoughts.
 
01:07:53 Ernest: But doesn’t one experience these higher gifts, greater than earthly bread, when one receives Holy Communion…the real presence of Jesus?
 
01:10:52 Louise: In the Sufi mystical tradition, the disciple-to-be had to wash the latrine for 5 years, and only that. Afterward, he could attend the meetings with the Sufi master, where he was mostly bashed, laughed at, lied to, publicly humiliated, etc. while love was produced in his heart. What a way to chose the heart!
 
01:12:44 Paul Grazal: +1
 
01:17:30 Paul Grazal: Amen.  Thank you Father
 
01:18:56 maureencunningham: Beautifully said Thank You.
 
01:19:25 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 
01:19:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much Father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XLI, Part II

Avoidance: often this can be the fundamental reason that an individual gravitates towards solitude, religious, or otherwise. We do not want to be in the presence of others, because it is there that we stand revealed - not only in their eyes, but in our own. In our interactions with others, we begin to see our dominant passions and the poverty of our sin. Our weak spots, blind spots and hard spots become perfectly evident to us. It is for this reason that the desert fathers counsel spending many years in the common life because it is there that true purification takes place. It is in our day-to-day struggle with the movement of our own thoughts and emotions and interactions with others, that sin is overcome and virtue begins to grow. To flee into solitude, prematurely, and even with the highest spiritual aspirations, promises only danger. It is perilous to enter into deep silence alone. If one falls, there is no one to pick them up. If one is swallowed up by delusion, there is no one to set them aright. How can we repent without having the other as one to whom we can direct our compassion or who reveals our darker side? 
Silence can never be an escape. In fact, silence can only be loved by one who has been freed from every impediment in order to encounter He who is Love and find true respite and peace in Him. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C From Abba Mark
 
00:04:17 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Sandy
 
00:11:11 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C
 
00:15:40 Cindy Moran: Is this like a consecrated virgin?
 
00:26:06 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..."
 
Cindy, I think it is probably different, in that you can continue to live in the world in any way you feel called as a consecrated virgin, but I believe that being a hermit involves deliberately leaving the world to live apart, yet following the monastic rule. Maybe Father can add or correct this.
 
00:27:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you!
 
00:27:39 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..."
 
Your diocesan office will probably have someone who can answer questions about both.
 
00:27:50 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Thank you!" with 👍
 
00:31:41 Rachel: This reminds me of Saint Paul stating that he doesn't even judge himself. Years ago this statement left me wondering at what he meant and have now come to believe that what Cassian is saying is the same thing that Saint Paul was saying. He had a thorn in the flesh, knew a man taken up to the third Heaven yet does not even judge himself. Not even stopping to examen himself except to boast in his weakness in order to glorify God's great mercy.
 
00:32:15 LauraLeigh: Seems like, whether in community or as a hermit, one needs to be prepared to be a "plucky fighter"!
 
00:32:22 Eric Ewanco: Can you relate these eremitic hazards to ordinary laymen who live involuntarily alone but in the world? Obviously some hazards apply, but some may not. Can you comment?
 
00:32:39 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Can you relate these..." with 👍
 
00:32:55 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Can you relate these..."
 
This is my question too.
 
00:38:05 LauraLeigh: The thing is, though, about living alone in the world, you know very well that there is no one there to catch you when you fall. Everything
 
00:45:47 Anthony: I suggest that maybe women have more living examples of a secular spiritual life since widows with their maturity and their link to other widows are more common than widowers
 
00:45:51 Anthony: Grand torino
 
00:46:25 Eric Ewanco: Oh that's where that came from! I've used that. :-)
 
00:52:47 LauraLeigh: Thank you for not running off to a cabin in the woods, Father.
 
00:53:26 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with 👆
 
00:54:12 Anthony: Sometimes I think we try too hard to be good Catholics, so hard that we dispel that peace we might otherwise have if we didn't try so hard , since trying too hard can focus us on our turbulent selves. Perhaps it's to have a hobby and cigar and an occasional prayer than making and measuring ourselves against a lot of self imposed religious obligations.
 
00:56:55 Eric Ewanco: With all due respect to Tolkien, I'd rather live under corrupt government than anarchy.
 
00:57:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "Sometimes I think we..." with ❤️
 
00:58:09 Patrick: Reacted to "Sometimes I think ..." with ❤️
 
01:09:39 Anthony: Or by taking obligation to pray and fast because you're going to fight evil......that _can_ lead to obsessive type of behavior for an ostensibly good reason. It's perhaps like a modern day "Children's Crusade."
 
01:12:34 John: Yesterday's Gueranger article talks about exterior-only asceticism: "The Jewish casuists were not slow in drawing up their famous formula, that all moral goodness was guaranteed to him that had received circumcision! St. Paul, later on, told them how such a principle was a stumbling-block to the Gentiles, leading them to blaspheme the name of God. According to the moral theology of these Hebrew doctors, conscience meant only what the tribunal of public justice issued as its decisions: the obligations of the interior tribunal of a man’s conscience were to be restricted to the rules followed by the assize-courts. The result of such teaching soon showed itself: the only thing people need care for was what was seen by men; if the fault were not one that human eyes could judge of, you were not to trouble about it."
 
01:17:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:18:22 sue and mark: Thank you
 
01:18:32 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part VII and Hypothesis XLI, Part I

In the advertisement for and description of this evening’s group, I wrote: “How does one deal with feelings of desolation in regards to one’s vocation, resentment towards others, being treated with envy or finding one’s circumstances to be a source of temptation? In the face of the many trials brought upon us by the evil one, great perseverance is needed and freedom from self will.”  This description, however, does not capture the depth of the wisdom that we were exposed to this evening. All of our asceticism, all the ways that we seek to remove the impediment of our passions, all the ways that we seek to remain focused upon the spiritual battle that lies within the heart has one end: to bring us to the place where we can enter into the Paschal Mystery in union with Christ. Not one of us should seek to leave the training, ground of the spiritual life prematurely or to choose to rest before God grants it. For it is precisely in this battle that all that remains an impediment to our ascending the cross with Christ is removed. Abba Isaiah, in the richest and most beautiful interpretation of the Passion, unpacks for us the meaning of every experience of our Lord; not that we might reflect upon it in an abstract fashion, but that we would take hold of His experiences as our own. We engage in the ascetical life not to reach the kind of moral perfection or emotional Nirvana but rather that we might reach the place where we can ascend the Cross with Christ. Once we are delivered from all of these things, we pass through our own Passion Week and enter into another, new age, thinking new and incorrupt thoughts. We are reminded of St. Paul’s words, “set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you’re dead.“ We leave our sins behind and find mercy together with those who are worthy of Him!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 353 paragraph 4
 
00:11:16 FrDavid Abernethy: And Elder said: “Just as a tree . . . .
 
00:32:56 Anthony: I suggest that the various revolutions, including the American,  were designed to uproot a stable society.  The mass migrations of the late 1800s to 1900s were caused by Socialist governments displacing their peasants. This uprooted stability and is a root of our mental and moral afflictions today.
 
00:36:36 Anthony: The honest peasant is an essential character for Solzhenitsyn.
 
00:37:05 Louise: Focus
 
00:37:07 Anthony: Vanishing point
 
00:37:40 Zoom user: True North
 
00:37:54 Carol: touchstone
 
00:40:59 Anthony: The reformation was a symptom of society failing in its "monastic " vocation.
 
00:48:48 Louise: Sartre
 
00:50:38 Louise: Ste-Thérèse-de-Lisieux forced herself to hang out with the most annoying nun in the convent in order to confront her impatience and find her deeper loving kindness.
 
01:19:37 Louise: Thank you, Fr. Abernethy!
 
01:19:43 sheri: Thank you.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part VI

Stability of mind and heart: such are the characteristics of those who live the ascetic life. The mystery of the human person is such that we must suspend judgment of others as well as judgment of ourselves. 
On a psychological level, things are multi- determined. In other words, many things coalesce to form our thoughts and actions. Therefore, we must be very cautious in the spiritual life not to act quickly when tempted to leave our state of life or vocation. The change of mere externals does not bring healing. The passions that often drive us in the way that we view circumstances and others are only healed through persevering through many trials. 
We are ever so changeable. This is our great struggle and vulnerability, but it is also what allows us to repent. When we see our own sin or when we come to recognize the truth or when an illusion is revealed, we can turn toward God and cling to him and the healing he alone offers. “The Lord is an eternal rock”, the Scriptures tell us. Therefore, we must rest upon him. In him alone do we begin to experience an invincible peace and an unshakable hope.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:56 FrDavid Abernethy: page 351 para 11
 
00:33:42 Ambrose Little, OP: There are those who say that you are “lukewarm” if you don’t get upset about bad stuff happening in the world.
 
00:44:33 David Fraley: Reacted to "There are those who …" with 👍
 
00:47:50 Zoom user: Whoa
 
00:57:08 John Ingram: I've seen some of the psychological evaluation questions that are asked of candidates for the priesthood. They are truly bizarre and disturbing - and disconcerting.
 
00:58:40 Louise: Even in psychology departments, they do NOT use psychological evaluation for selecting PhD candidates. They are selected and evaluated only on grades.
 
00:58:48 Denise T.: This monk remained silent amidst the other monks' envy. Is it ever right to speak up for yourself and explain what you are doing? Or is it always better to remain silent when confronted with the envy of others.
 
01:04:27 Rachel: Yep
 
01:10:57 Denise T.: Thank you, Father. That is very helpful.
 
01:15:10 Rachel: Not leaving willie nilly..going to Mas. God bless!
 
01:15:17 Rachel: Mass
 
01:16:40 Louise: Thanks, Father!
 
01:16:53 Patrick Nugent, ObSB: Thank you, Father!
 
01:17:27 David Fraley: This has been a good session and a lot to think about. Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part V

We are truly being nourished on solid food in reading the fathers. They present us not simply with a moralistic or legalistic view of sin and its impact upon our lives in the lives of others. We are to hold the peace of another’s heart as precious as we do our own. And when we are stirred to anger or hatred because we have been maligned and mistreated, we must not give way to hatred. Rather, we must suspend judgment and recognize that others are first and foremost tempted to sin as we are. We can hate the sin and the evil and in fact we should do so. But we must never lose sight of the dignity and identity of others or our own identity. 
When we get angry, we can lose our stillness and peace of mind and heart. These things are often hard won and so we must be careful not to cast them off easily. Nor should we cast off brotherly love lightly. We often can treat others with harshness and lack of generosity - never realizing that we place our souls and theirs’ in jeopardy. Again, I’m not speaking simply in moralistic terms. If we goad others to anger, we can make them lose hope in the providence and love of God. If we treat their vulnerability, not with generosity and support but abuse it, then we sin against charity - we sin against Christ. 
We must learn to slow things down internally; for we do not see all ends; even when we think we see things clearly. Our goal should be to live in divine love and help this divine love be maintained in our relationships with each other. In fulfilling, the commandment to love, we are offered and promised everything - to be sons and daughters of God. In light of this, whatever lengths we go to guard our minds and our hearts from anger is worth it.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 348 letter G
 
00:22:19 Adam Paige: I just received an icon today of the Synaxis of the Bodiless Hosts
 
00:29:53 Rory: ?is divine providence the stillness among the passions of life?
 
00:37:05 Rory: ?is God revealing the truth in our silence when anger is expressed from another?
 
00:39:57 Louise: Father, what would you say about people who sue here and there to deal with their anger?
 
00:48:25 John Ingram: This reminds me of the Roman judges who flew off the handle, into a rage immediately upon hearing the testimony of the Christians they were sentencing.
 
01:03:55 David Fraley: I’m sorry I’m so late. I forgot today is Monday.
 
01:04:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I’m sorry I’m so lat..." with ➕
 
01:07:27 Rory: when someone trespasses another, 
is this God's way of showing us the clarity through peace and hope.
 
01:09:52 Rory: ?is anger really fear? 
and wouldn't Divine Love 
quell that fear
 
01:17:44 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:18:08 Louise: Thanks you, Father.
 
01:18:09 Helena Babington Guiles: Thank you Father David. Very helpful. 🙏🏼🤍
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part IV

Once again, we are presented with a kind of fickleness that can plague the human heart. We can be ever so changeable. This includes how we look upon even our greatest commitments. The moment something becomes a trial for us or where we are asked to endure something that is reprehensible, or that causes us some suffering, we will want to change the external circumstances of our life. 
However, the fathers in their writing show us how the evil one constantly seeks to magnify such experiences to the point that they breakdown our commitment to our particular vocation or vows. The one who has lived the common life for years can have the seed implanted in his heart that he would be happier or holier as an anchorite. Or one who is old of age might be tempted into thinking that his life no longer has value, and that he can no longer fulfill the rule in the way that he did as a young man. He begins to think about retiring from the religious life all together. Such thinking is pervasive and enters into every vocation. 
Having said this, however, we also have to be aware of the fact that we can face obstacles in our environment, such as the envy of others that becomes destructive or immorality. In these circumstances, it may be necessary to change one’s environment.  We need to recognize that we are responsible for the spiritual well-being and fidelity of others. If we treat others without love, without respect, then we can put their vocation and their spiritual life in jeopardy. This is a sober reminder of the solidarity that exist between us. The only way that we are allowed to treat another person is to love them.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hello Navy Dave!!!
 
00:03:26 David Fraley: I love those photos of you and your mom! Neither of you have changed!
 
00:03:42 FrDavid Abernethy: I look older than she does
 
00:04:24 David Fraley: Mrs Abernethy, you and I met at the Oratory a few years ago.
 
00:47:37 Ren Witter: Something about all these examples makes me really sad, and I think it has something to do with how they show that our words and actions can have such a profound on the ability of another to resist temptation. In all these examples, the temptations would have little weight if the elder in question was treated in such a way that he was assured of the affection and support of his fellow, younger monks.
 
00:48:08 Ren Witter: I just imagine how the way we treat others makes them more or less susceptible
 
00:51:00 David Fraley: Reacted to "I just imagine how t…" with 👍
 
00:54:46 Ren Witter: I am thinking, and I don’t think this is an overstatement, that when we treat others in a way that says “you are worthless,” “you are not worth my time,” “you don’t deserve kindness,” “you are a lost cause,” and many other such things, that we are not just making them more susceptible to the temptations of the demons, but are in fact becoming the tempting demon ourselves. We are already doing the demons’ job for them.
 
00:58:14 Anthony: "The Three Musketeers" has a plotline about a woman who left the convent in a bad way, and she brought ruin and misery to several men throughout her life until an avenger caught up with her.  It ties together some themes discussed today.
 
00:59:58 Louise: Sometimes, to be ethical, we have to confront, directly or indirectly, the obvious incompetence and even maliciousness of others. Of course, their hidden demons come out then forcibly. This would not be a sin, right?
 
01:03:07 John Ingram: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
I think St. Francis de Sales talked about how to respond to negative people (heretics, etc.): treat them with honey, not with vinegar.
 
01:05:48 Louise: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
Good point! However, some people even envy you when you treat them with honey, because they do not have honey and they hate you for having honey.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part III

We returned to hypothesis 40 and found ourselves sitting at the feet of Saint Ephrem the Syrian. We are shown with frightening clarity how the evil one works upon our minds and our hearts by making us question the value and the significance of our particular vocation.  We are often tempted to change externals; thinking that when we do so we will find a place that fosters greater sanctity, peace of mind and heart, or offers a greater opportunity for prayer. The evil one constantly seeks to tempt us to this instability in order that we might never put down deep roots - and so also never bear ripe fruit, if any fruit at all. 
The grass always looks greener on the other side. There are always going to be things that seem to be lacking in our life or in our relationships, whether real or perceived, that make us vulnerable to this kind of attack. Therefore, we are counseled to be equally relentless in putting things to the test. We must fast and pray and seek the counsel of others. Likewise, we must never make decisions in moments of desolation. It is not as though the fathers are saying that we can never be called to walk another path. Rather, they are telling us that all of our actions must be guided by prudence; a kind of practical wisdom that arises out of long experience within the inner desert of the heart. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 342 top of the page
 
00:43:21 John Ingram: I'm wondering whether the extreme depravity of the modern world creates a greater temptation to retreat to a more extreme asceticism than, say, a century ago, or even during the times of the Desert Fathers. Thus we're in more danger of being thrown off balance from a balanced approach.
 
00:50:30 Louise: Would  recommend allowing ourselves to experience the void elated to the longing to be with the Beloved, being conscious and tolerating the pain of longing while also being in this world with its joys and pleasures in a contained way.
 
01:07:24 Louise: I think of Job these days. He was thrown into ascetism, losses, and pain, beyond his volition. God tested him via the evil one. At times, I imagine myself in the place of Job in a near future, in the hope to remain faithful and in love with God whatever happens, even I do not understand why this is occurring. Maybe Job's trial was a demonstration for us.
 
01:11:02 Adam Paige: It’s the feast of Job this week actually
 
01:14:05 Melissa Kummerow: Wish I had been able to tune in earlier but everything that's been talked about so far has been very timely to my own life right now. Seems to be par for the course with your groups, Father David lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part II

Stability of place leads to and protects internal emotional and spiritual stability. One must not be tempted to change one’s external environment; thinking that somehow another place holds greater promise for producing virtue within our hearts. Such thoughts must be tested over the course of many years and placed before one’s spiritual elder for scrutiny. Often the evil one will seek to draw us along another path because we are being afflicted or frustrated or our self-esteem is being diminished in some fashion. We must keep our focus upon Christ in the midst of this battle. He alone is the wholly innocent One. He did not flee the Cross that was set before him and ultimately gave his assent to the Father’s will. Our faith and hope in God and what he can bring about by his providence and grace must be our guiding light.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:00 FrDavid Abernethy: page 336, Letter C
 
00:48:34 Ashley Kaschl: What you said about scripture where Jesus asks “do you want to be well?” reminded me of a part of the Surrender Novena to the Sacred Heart: “In pain you pray for me to act, but that I act in the way you want. You do not turn to me, instead, you want me to adapt to your ideas. You are not sick people who ask the doctor to cure you, but rather sick people who tell the doctor how to.”
 
00:52:55 Louise: Could it be that Theodora fully accepted this ordeal because she had previously deceived the monks of the monastery in believing that she was a man? Thus, this was a just punishment by God, which she embraced.
 
00:55:59 Louise: I see.
 
01:02:11 John Ingram: Not sure where this poem came from, but on the subject of spiritual pride, here is one stanza:
 
01:03:47 John Ingram: "And when the prayer unto my lips doth rise/"Let me but offer Thee some glorious sacrifice/Let me accomplish some great work for Thee!"/Subdue it, Lord, let my petition be Make me but useful in this world of Thine/In ways according to Thy Will, not mine."
 
01:05:00 Louise: Father, would you see anorexia as an ego-based asceticism driven by diabolical obsession?
 
01:05:30 John Ingram: No idea!
 
01:07:05 Paul Fifer: Found the poem…. Here is a link:  https://www.google.com/books/edition/Irish_Monthly/_W43AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22And+when+the+prayer+unto+my+lips+doth+rise/%22Let+me+but+offer+Thee+some+glorious+sacrifice/Let+me+accomplish+some+great+work+for+Thee!%22/Subdue+it,+Lord,+let+my+petition+be+Make+me+but+useful+in+this+world+of+Thine/In+ways+according+to+Thy+Will,+not+mine.%22&pg=PA509&printsec=frontcover
 
01:07:09 John Ingram: Follow-up to other stanza: first stanza is: "Let me not die before I've done for Thee/my earthly work, whatever it may be./ Call me not hence with mission unfulfilled/ let me not leave my space of ground untilled."
 
01:07:51 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:09:38 David Fraley: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:14:39 Sandy Nelson: A first time listener this evening . . where can I get a copy of the Evergetinos?
 
01:15:08 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A first time listene…" with ❤️
 
01:15:23 Sandy Nelson: Thank you
 
01:16:58 sue and mark: Thank you Father.  God bless everyone.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part I

We rarely think of the importance of stability; not only in our external environment, but the stability of thought and emotion. It is precisely this that is addressed in Hypothesis 40. One can easily be tempted, with good reason, for a multitude of reasons, to move to another place, where one can find greater tranquility and peace in the spiritual life. Yet, such thoughts are often the work of the evil one. Wherever we go, we take our selves with us, including our passions. 
And so, we receive multiple stories and examples of monks and saints who were put to the test in this regard.  We can allow ourselves with great ease to begin to daydream; to imagine a kind of life that will bring peace and happiness to us or that would be pleasing to God. The danger is that we often are motivated by our personal judgment and sensibilities or by the actions of the evil one. 
We must understand that in this world we know no peace, except for that which is found in Christ. While we are in this world, we are engaged in constant spiritual warfare and should expect nothing less. In fact, we were told that we must become like the cherubim - “all eyes.”  We must constantly watch for the subtle ways that the evil one seeks to draw us away from the path of obedience and humility.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 330 Letter E
 
00:54:48 Erick chastain: What hypothesis/ book are we on?
 
00:55:21 carol nypaver: P.334
 
00:55:26 Eric Ewanco: XL.A.2
 
00:55:59 Erick chastain: Reacted to "P.334" with 👍
 
00:56:28 carol nypaver: Please say book name again?
 
00:56:52 John Ingram: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Repentance-Purity-Pope-Shenouda/dp/0881415324?ref_=nav_ya_signin
 
00:56:59 Cindy Moran: Great idea.
 
00:57:55 Sean: Reacted to "Great idea. " with 👍
 
01:03:37 Sean: Along this line, I have friends who have considered converting to
Orthodoxy. Can you speak to pursuing holiness in our Church and not leaving in this context? Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:06:26 Erick chastain: Pope Francis said Sunday that evangelization doesn't get done by keyboard warriors
 
01:08:17 John Ingram: I think Our Lord told us that in these times, charity would grow cold - which is exactly what is happening with all these internal disputes in the Church.
 
01:17:31 Eric Ewanco: “One does not proclaim the Gospel standing still, locked in an office, at one’s desk or at one’s computer, arguing like ‘keyboard warriors’ and replacing the creativity of proclamation with copy-and-paste ideas taken from here and there. The Gospel is proclaimed by moving, by walking, by going.” — Pope Francis, General Audience, Wednesday, 12 April 2023
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: 🙏
 
01:27:58 sue and mark: God Bless everyone.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIX, Part I

Tonight, our 100th Episode of the study of the The Evergetinos, we began reading Hypothesis 39.  The subject matter is manifold. We are not to trust or be overly confident in ourselves, our own judgment or our spiritual strength. Rather, we are to trust first and foremost in the grace of God and also the intercession of our spiritual father. Every good that we accomplish takes place because of God’s mercy; this includes the prayers, and the intercession of one’s elder. 
We are presented with a multitude of stories of individuals who were protected, strengthened, or guided by the prayers of their spiritual fathers. However, we are not to see this as  magic; nor are we to see it as something that would protect us from hardship, or the crosses we may be called to carry. Rather what is emphasized for us is the radical solidarity that exists among us as men and women of faith. We do not travel the road through this world in isolation. Rather, we are under the care of others or we are responsible for on another’s well-being. 
As so many times before, such stories emphasize for us the need for humility. We have to let go of the illusion of power. In fact, we cannot present the gospel from a standpoint of power, at least not as it is seen and understood in the world. The love that we bear witness to is obedient and self-emptying. The truth and the wisdom that we speak is that of the kingdom. Are these the realities the guide us in our life?  Are our sensibilities any different from those who do not have faith?
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 322
 
00:10:23 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis XXXIX
 
00:29:03 Rachel : This happens when we in our ascetic efforts in union with Christ, try to divest ourselves of self and the world.
 
00:31:11 Anthony: I just finished reading St. Bonaventure's life of St. Francis.  It made the real power of intercession more real to me. St. Francis and his friars are very much in the mold of these older Fathers.  It shows me the real catholicity of the Faith.
 
00:40:16 carol nypaver: What would you recommend for a young man who feels drawn to the priesthood in this day/age?
 
00:48:57 David Fraley: Reacted to "What would you recom…" with 👍
 
01:09:04 Anthony: Modern practical question: Does this speak to Concealed Carry of Firearms, especially now when brigandage is more common than in past decades?
 
01:14:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Be inspired by the circumcellions! ;)
 
01:15:55 Paul Fifer: “He said to them, “But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.”  Luke 22:27
 
01:17:07 Rodrigo Castillo: Ambrose:  Donatists in North Africa in St. Augustine’s time.
 
01:20:52 Paul Fifer: The verse before that… “He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?” “No, nothing,” they replied.”
 
01:22:13 Ambrose Little, OP: NAB commentary at end of that passage: “It is enough!: the farewell discourse ends abruptly with these words of Jesus spoken to the disciples when they take literally what was intended as figurative language about being prepared to face the world’s hostility.”
 
01:26:07 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVIII

As we move more deeply into the first volume of the Evergetinos - reading hypothesis 38 - we find ourselves also being drawn more deeply into the mystery of humility and obedience. The wisdom of God, revealed in our Lord through his incarnation and through the Paschal mystery, shows us the vulnerability of divine love and humility. For the love of us Christ empties himself, becomes a slave and obedient unto death on the cross. It is upon him that we must fix our gaze if we are not to be drawn into the illusions of pride. 
Religious people are not above having their own delusions; including and especially the delusion of holiness. We hold on to the demands of our ego. Pride rules our will.  Thus, we were given multiple stories this evening of God in his providence guiding souls along a path He desires and presenting them with circumstances that unexpectedly revealed to them these greater truths. There is so much of us that is prideful that we are often blind to the humble ways that God comes to us and reject those through whom He speaks to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 314 letter C
 
00:23:57 Anthony: Is this the concept of "doing Purgatory" now so you don't have to go to Purgatory later?
 
00:39:57 Anthony: On preaching the gospel, among "Evangelicals," there is an emphasis of calling someone to recognize their sin and "accept Christ."  That doesn't seem to be the Catholic tradition, is it?  In the Bible it seems only prophets did that and we are not prophets.
 
00:47:24 Eric Ewanco: think you missed a paragraph?
 
01:13:16 Anthony: This so goes against modern education.  The intellect is separated from morals and we are taught to set ourselves up as judges
 
01:17:04 Anthony: "you have many teachers but not many fathers"
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVII

How does one approach something such as grumbling and murmuring against others, or complaining about what our judgment and sensibilities react to negatively in our lives? How is it that we suspend that judgment? Beyond this, how is it that we let it go all together and allow ourselves to be drawn along in the darkness of faith; where God alone illuminates the path before us to draw us into the truth and the love of the kingdom? 
 
The short answer to all of these questions is: through experience. Only God can reveal to the human heart that has the faith, perhaps only the size of a mustard seed, the depths of His mind and His truth. The greatest miracle, if you will, is to move the mountain of our ego and self-esteem. Our passions make it so difficult to keep our focus solely upon God, upon his love, and upon the truth that is being revealed to us. 
 
These stories are not about disciples being slavishly obedient to their masters no matter what the circumstances. In fact, the stories given to us tonight were how novices and disciples, who were pure of heart, were able to see the truth with clarity and bring about the conversion of their Elders who had lost their way. The stories are presented to us in order that we would not be tempted into condescension. We must understand that God can reprove us and correct us in the most unexpected of ways. What these hypotheses (36 & 37) reveal to us is the preeminence of humility and love. Age, experience or depth of discipline are no guarantee that we will see the truth or embrace it. May God have mercy and illuminate our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 309
 
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: On Grumbling :-)
 
00:33:19 Eric Ewanco: In terms of grumbling, I was listening today to a podcast on joy and the speaker pointed out that the early Christians did not even complain about Nero (who took Christians, covered them with tar, and lit them to shed light on his parties), but kept their focus on God and their own faith, and cultivating joy in the midst of persecution. A good lesson for us today in the hostile environment we live in where Christians tend to get distracted by their grumbling over the circumstances.
 
00:48:21 Eric Ewanco: Doesn't this just contradict everything we've heard previously about the value and importance of unalloyed obedience?
 
01:16:26 Anthony: "Father David, Build My Church, which you can see is in ruins"?
 
01:19:56 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like the habit of humility teaches us to see more clearly. Humility as “true self knowledge,” but with that practice of patience with yourself and with others, not jumping to conclusions and avoiding rashly adopting opinions of others. You give yourself time and suppress the passions that can interfere with being open to seeing things as they really are. So that practice of humble obedience is at least in part what helps us to see more clearly when it might be right to not obey—or at least not obey in particulars in order to be obedient in a a deeper way, as with that disciple tonight.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part II and Hypothesis XXXVI

In these hypotheses, we have been reflecting upon the practice of asceticism, especially in light of the relationship between an Elder and his disciple; that is, in relationship to obedience. We are shown in these stories the ABC’s of the ascetic life and in particular that of the virtue of obedience. 
 
What does it mean to let go of private judgment? What does it mean to set aside one’s will even in small things in our day-to-day life? How do we train the mind and the heart in this virtue; so that when we are asked to pick up our cross or when we are reduced to raw endurance and cannot see the road ahead of us, we are able to respond in love?  We are shown in the stories that one must begin small. It is in letting go of our sensitivities in the small things, and allowing love to trump everything that this virtue takes root. It means being more attentive to the “other”, to what is asked of us and what people need, than to holding on to what we want, or what seems right or convenient to us. 
 
There is part of us that shrinks back in a spirit of objection to what is being taught here. It seems unnatural to us. But what is really being asked of us or rather where we are being led to embrace is the supernatural. What we are being guided to is the perfect love and self emptying obedience that we see in Christ. We should have a similar desire to have obedience to God’s will as our very food.  We must see it as something that sustains and nourishes us mystically. 
 
Not fulfilling the will of God or choosing the path of sin should become something that is abhorrent to us. Such lessons can be learned only with humility. Beyond this, we are shown the incredible responsibility of those who are elders. Their actions, their requests and demands of their disciples must be rooted in the desire for their salvation, and for their good. They will be held accountable as shepherds.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:17 David Fraley: Hello Mrs Abernethy!
 
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 305
 
00:08:28 David Fraley: Hi Fr David!
 
00:08:35 FrDavid Abernethy: Hi Dave!!
 
00:14:32 Debra: Step 11...on talkativeness....was really convicting
 
00:14:51 FrDavid Abernethy: yes it was!!
 
00:15:10 Debra: Ooops...wrong meeting LOL
 
00:25:19 Rachel: Maybe he wanted to see if his disciple was stuoid.
 
00:25:37 Rachel: stupid. Sorry. I should not joke.
 
00:28:57 iPhone: Reacted to "Maybe he wanted to s…" with ❤️
 
00:29:19 Rachel: Yes, I doubt he was stupid nor did the elder think that.
 
00:30:07 Rachel: I wonder though, what would be all of our reactions to this reality in our everyday lives?
 
00:52:38 Anthony Rago: This has got to be specific to novices.  Saints (Elizabeth of Hungary?) are praised for charity against the wishes of the head of household
 
00:55:36 Anthony Rago: But if these people can't use discretion, they also can fall into legalism - oops I don't have permission, I can't act on my own.
 
00:58:32 Anthony Rago: The religious life then is horribly dangerous.
 
01:01:01 Anthony Rago: That indicates then that people cannot abandon their discretion, they have to withhold some obedience, so they can  judge the situation, whether it is healthy or crazy - or just not for them.
 
01:05:15 Anthony Rago: Yes, I've seen situations both of people in religious life and married life that were just psychologically off.
 
01:05:25 Ambrose Little, OP: He also says submit to each other.
 
01:08:30 Debra: I always suggest Chrysogonus
 
01:09:09 Debra: for a baby's name
He could just be called Chrys
 
01:18:36 Rachel: Thank you all, Thank you Father
 
01:19:08 Rachel: :) lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part I

Obedience!  The root of the word is to hear or to listen. What emerges in reading the fathers is that our capacity to hear the word of God is rooted in our willingness to set aside our own willfulness, ego, and our private judgment. We often become obstinate and entrenched in our own view of things in such a way that we are no longer able to hear the advice or counsel of others. We are shown in this evening’s text that sometimes we must be left to our own devices to experience the poverty of our choices that are contrary to the will of God and His love. 
What also emerges is that obedience is not rooted in law but love. Obedience is the fruit of a deep relationship with God, and with one’s spiritual elder. An elder must love his disciple, and recognize that he bears responsibility for his salvation and so must give him constant care. The disciple must reciprocate this love and respect. In doing so, he enables the elder to be a true shepherd and not a mere hireling. This mutual obedience elevates the entire church and allows it to make present the humble love of Christ crucified to the world.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:49:18 Anthony Rago: I may have heard that sentiment too
 
00:49:29 Ambrose Little, OP: It’s probably saying that he’s true enough to Scripture and expansive in his guidance to cover such a loss. But it’s just a hypothetical.
 
00:50:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Hyperbole, like when Jesus says to cut off the hand that causes us to sin. Exaggeration to make a point about the quality of his teaching.
 
00:52:01 Anthony Rago: How may we properly revere persons not exactly in communion with Catholics?  I LOVE the works of St. Gregory of Narek - but if Pope Francis had not made him a Doctor of the Church, I would have forced myself to be cautious.  I'd love to go wholehearted into Coptic Orthodox spirituality / theology, but how cautious should we be?
 
01:00:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Echoes what St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the Apostle) says of the faithful’s relationship with their bishop.
 
01:12:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There is an amazing genius in the story-based instruction of the Evergetinos. It really makes ideas stick in a memorable way.
 
01:14:17 Anthony Rago: I'm open to it
 
01:14:19 David Fraley: I’d be interested.
 
01:14:21 carol nypaver: Sure!
 
01:14:29 Paul Fifer: Me too.
 
01:14:54 John & Heather: Would be interested.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIV

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 34. Again we are introduced into the practice of asceticism; in particular, how it is embraced in the spirit of obedience. We were given multiple stories of individuals who, out of love for their elder, respond with an immediacy to their demand or request. In each case we are shown the deep fruit that this bears. 
However, the greater task for us is to look at our lives and to see if we have prepared our hearts to receive the seed of our Lord‘s word as he calls us to the life of holiness. Do we respond with swiftness when called to prayer or with zeal when called to embrace the practice of fasting or urgency when called respond to someone in need or jeopardy? 
What the stories show us is that obedience is based upon a relationship, not law. It is love that makes us run to respond to Christ and to those He has given to us to guide us along the path to Him. If our asceticism or obedience lacks this love, then it is something that is suspect.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:43 B David: hi all 
Ben David here.  sort of new here...
 
00:10:55 FrDavid Abernethy: welcome Ben!
 
00:12:24 David Fraley: Hello Ben!
 
00:12:59 David Fraley: I did. I found a place in West View.
 
00:21:09 Bridget McGinley: St Hesychios in the Philokalia states “ a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in Christ through obedience to His commandments.  Father, if one cannot find an “elder” can one be assured of the graces and gifts of obedience by simply following the commandments?
 
00:24:33 Bridget McGinley: thank you
 
00:33:13 Anthony Rago: This is in stark contrast with the pagans - example the fear in the Adventures of Ulysses, in the trip to Hades, land of the shades.
 
00:35:22 Anthony Rago: The Coptic Hymn to St George names him the conqueror of his tormentors
 
01:14:40 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part IV

Reading the fathers deeply is unsettling. It strikes against every sensibility that we have and calls into question our perception of reality itself. In this sense, their writings are meant to illuminate the gospels for us and allow them to challenge us. So often we become lukewarm simply because things have become familiar and comfortable to us. We lose sight of the fact that in the face of Christ’s teaching individuals tore their garments and repeatedly wanted to put him to his death and eventually did accomplish this. 
What does reading the gospel or the fathers give rise to within our hearts and consciences? The stories about obedience in this hypothesis are startling; we can hardly imagine ourselves enduring such things for a moment, let alone seeing them as something that are a means to freeing us from self-will and from the ego. What is it that we love? What stirs our hearts to their greatest desire? What are we willing to die for? Is Christ our Beloved or merely the construction of our minds and imaginations to make us feel safe in this world?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:29 Paul Fifer: This paragraph sounds a lot like the Russian movie named “The Island”.
 
00:21:58 Anthony Rago: Reminds me of "Ostrov / Island" in which the foolish monk tends the coal furnace for 30 or so years
 
00:22:30 Charbel: A fantastic film, I get some folks together to watch it at the beginning of the Fast every year.
 
00:24:03 carol nypaver: Profound film!  I need to watch it again.
 
00:24:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Much like having small children. 🙂
 
00:25:52 Anthony Rago: Culturally, in Sicily, my family had livestock on the ground floor.  Same with Padre Pio's family.  Living quarters were upstairs.  Maybe the monk lived in a downstairs "barn" and the others lived on the floor(s) above.
 
00:27:54 Deb Dayton: Reacted to "Much like having sma..." with 😂
 
00:28:00 carol nypaver: Very interesting, Anthony.  Thank you for the insight.
 
00:39:16 Charbel: Apologies for ducking out. I'm taking an extra shift at the shelter and may have to step away from time to time as folks come into my office.
 
00:39:22 Joyce and Jim Walsh: Story of the Monk reminds me  of the indignities suffered by St. FAUSTINA as noted in her Diary.
 
00:51:40 Anthony Rago: But if we are in the image of God, I see a tension.  One the one hand, there is the parable of the unworthy servants doing only what is expected of you.  But on the other hand, you are made in the image of God, and I would thing, there is room for some sense of ego and satisfaction.  Not smugness, but joy and satisfaction.
 
00:53:52 iPhone: Amen Father
 
01:04:05 iPhone: Really Powerful Message.
 
01:13:14 Denise T. : This is probably really worldly of me, but if you allow someone to hurt you unjustly or lie about you or anything else that is deliberately inflicted by another without saying anything, will that be good for them. There seems a sense of justice is lost. Not saying anything. 
 
01:20:05 Denise T. : Thank  you, Father.
 
01:20:16 carol nypaver: Do those who inflict the “punishment” on us,  also become more saintly even if their intent is NOT that we become more patient, humble, etc.? Especially if they are not our “elders”? If we become holier for what we endure at their hands, do they also grow in holiness if we endure patiently?
 
01:21:27 Sharon: Thank you

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part III

The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6
 
00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession?  Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition?
 
00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12.
 
00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ?
 
00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm
 
01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful
 
01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired?
 
01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄
 
01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints.  We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young.
 
01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues.
 
01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part II

What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.”  It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us. 
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ. 
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs
 
00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds
 
00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too
 
00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity?
 
00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs.
 
00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day.
 
00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. 
 
But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍
 
00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation.
 
00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this.
 
00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it).
 
01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience?
 
01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXXIII, Part I

To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue. 
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace. 
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J
 
00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end.
 
01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part III

The times reading The Evergetinos I find my mind and heart swimming not in darkness but rather in a light with which I am unfamiliar. For in reading the fathers, everything seems to be turned on its head. The writings are often jarring, but in a similar way to that of the Gospel.  To read deeply is to find one’s heart inflamed. To listen closely is to find something stirred within us that perhaps was once lifeless. The words can be so piercing that they reveal parts of ourselves that we were unaware of or did not know existed. This is what we were shown tonight; and this is what makes every moment of reflecting upon the fathers worth it.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:34 Mark Kelly: Fr. David is speaking of Fr. Lazarus el Antony.
 
00:31:23 Mark Kelly: Fr. Lazarus vide:  https://vimeo.com/9794946
 
00:35:54 Anthony: This section by Isaac is jarring because it appears to conflict w\ith duty to family and community; and it conflicts with the Christian culture ideal which Europeans at least remember from the Middle Ages.  Pope Benedict's catecheses on the saints which built Christendom would be very different if he came from a culture that was dominated by, say, Islam.
 
00:41:01 Bridget McGinley: I am from Philly...… he ended pretty disgraced. I think the Princehood got to his head. That is a big crown to wear. I agree it is contrary to religious life.
 
00:43:13 Anthony: In my opinion, I believe I see this "worldiness" emerge in Europe after the rocky path the Germanic tribes had in full conversion to the Faith.  The Romano-Greeks in the East had similar problems manifested in another way - hence the unflattering term "byzantine".  Each culture needs to fully convert and not flatter themselves.
 
00:43:55 Babington (or Babi): I think it was Saint Therese who wrote “Everything I have and am everything I am is pure gift.”
 
00:44:17 Babington (or Babi): Oops miswrote
 
00:44:35 Babington (or Babi): Everything I have and everything I am is pure gift.
 
00:45:56 iPhone: Principalities ?
 
00:52:17 Mark Kelly: One of the better-known sayings of the desert fathers is,” There are two things to avoid, an easy life and vain glory.”
 
00:53:18 iPhone: principalities and powers
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Monk is from monos = single
 
00:57:24 Anthony: single minded, so I have heard
 
01:13:17 iPhone: Really Excellent !
 
01:15:19 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen
 
01:18:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Reminds me of the style of parables. First of the unfaithful servants. Then like the inverse of the parable of the lost sheep. But in this case, it’s the celebration of Satan and all of Hell when just one “sheep” is lost.
 
01:20:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:59 Babington (or Babi): Good stuff.  Thank you Father. God bless you all. 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part II

We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me. 
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside?  Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!
 
00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!!
 
00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂
 
00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me.
 
00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession.
 
01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
 
01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow?
 
01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay
 
01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God?
 
01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight.
 
01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :)
 
01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father!
 
01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part II and XXXII, Part I

Tonight, in Hypothesis 32we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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Text of chat during the group:
01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted.
 
01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue:  show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it.  We need to find a worthy sacrifice.
 
01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called?
 
01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism.
 
01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow
 
01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks.  I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part I

How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly.  It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world? 
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed
 
00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin
 
00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me.
 
00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle.  Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church.
 
00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers!
 
00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God.
 
00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring
 
01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful!
 
01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun.  It looks like maybe people should have left her alone.  Am I wrong here?
 
01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear.
 
01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother
 
01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father!
 
01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father
 
01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part III

This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God. 
 
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject?  We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?”  The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.”  We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life.
 
00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us.  So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors.
 
00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be
 
00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits
 
00:37:13 Anthony: medium
 
00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there?
 
00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus
 
00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people.
 
00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience
 
01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven.  God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice.  and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part II

We found ourselves this evening entering more deeply into the nature of the spiritual struggle and warfare and the effects that it has upon us and others. We do not exist in isolation and there is no passive position in the spiritual life or our relationship with God. We either struggle with the passions or they gradually direct our life. We either struggle with God and those he has given to support us and to be our allies in the battle or we begin to war with the tyrant. Our willingness to enter into the struggle with temptation, to fearlessly endure the trials that we undergo in life begins to reveal more and more to the soul. We begin to be able to distinguish between virtue and vice with a greater clarity. We also acquire virtue by this warfare and toil and so begin to see that we are more steadfast when embattled. Though stronger, however, we also learn that we must remain humble and hate vice so as to avoid it. Finally, we see our frailty in all of its fullness and the love and the power of God. The very battle itself reveals so much about ourselves and the hidden regions of the unconscious; that have been wounded by our sin or from having lived in a fallen world. Yet, it also reveals to us the very desire of God. God longs and yearns for our love. He thirsts for it. Such things are not learned from books but rather through the experience of the Paschal mystery. It is through dying to sin and self and rising to life in Christ that we come to know Him and to understand the nature of divine love.
 
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Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:38:39 Eric Ewanco: this paragraph really resonates with my recent experience!!
 
00:52:17 Anthony: Pope Benedict wrote about a non-sinful understanding of Eros.
 
00:52:45 Anthony: Spe Salvi?
 
00:54:04 Rachel: Can one experience these temptations so keenly that they feel as if they are actually doing violence to themselves? Especially when it come to thoughts. Where one does not wish to sin in the thoughts let alone sins of action. Do the demons and our wounds from past sins attack us even greater and rebel when we have set our hearts on God and his will alone? I know someone who described the fight as almost maddening because they had been so steeped in sin that the battle would even feel physically and mentally wounding. it reminds me of when Saint may of Egypt told Abba Zosimas that there were some days she would spend face down on the ground until they passed. Calling on the name of Jese.
 
00:54:11 Rachel: Jesus.
 
00:54:15 Eric Ewanco: I don't see "eros" occur in Spe Salvi
 
00:55:50 Ashley Kaschl: I think it might be in Deus Caritas Est
 
00:56:32 Eric Ewanco: probably; I see 34 hits for eros there
 
01:00:14 Anthony: For what it's worth, sometimes, I almost feel that the devils even wish to snatch away prayer or take over consciousness to direct my attention away from God and to them.
 
01:01:10 Eric Ewanco: oh yeah; definitely, @anthony
 
01:01:40 Anthony: On the timelessness of the unconscious, "Iconostasis" by Fr. Pavel Florensky opens with this theme.
 
01:03:57 Rachel: Yes! This is precisely what I hoped you would touch upon.
 
01:06:48 Rachel: Where it would seem to bring a person the the edge of sanity but that is precisly where all of our ideas that we had of ourselves and of God are brought into the light. Where one become disillusioned with oneself and realizes that they have been brought to the threshold of the bridal chamber. Where there are no illusions and one stands as they are, in God. Where on e allows themselves to be loved as they have always been.
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: Took me a little longer to type this out but I wanted to bounce off of Anthony’s comment on eros, I was recently talking to some friends about Pope Benedict’s clarifying of what God’s love looks like. Pope B says something like “on the Cross, God’s eros is made present for us.” Because His love is both agape and eros. Agape because it is selfless, self-gift, unconditional, sacrificial, etc. AND eros because God yearns for His people in the same way that eros burns passionately for the beloved. Eros moves the lover to become one with the beloved, ie, Christ and His church and through the Eucharist. So on the Cross, God begs the love of His people. Prayer is our act of eros back to God, where our own yearning for Him is most present within us as we call out to Him from our innermost being. So prayer is also the biggest target of the enemy because he knows that if he can destroy our connection to God, he greatly frustrate our passionate desire for Him.
 
01:13:43 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part III and Hypothesis XXIX, Part I

It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243
 
00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia.  I am infected with it these days!
 
00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling?
 
00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty
 
00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4.  Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread.  They can be stored for several months.  To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts.  I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top.
 
01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those
 
01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation).  At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture.  It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare.  It is in a way very hard to be Catholic.
 
01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing!
 
01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part II

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.
 
00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.
 
00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳
 
00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.
 
00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."
 
00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."
 
00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?
 
01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting
 
01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way
 
01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.
 
01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??
 
01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part I

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom. 
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept. 
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but. 
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVII

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope. 
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability. 
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.
 
00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave
 
00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us
 
00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!
 
00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol
 
00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).
 
00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.
 
00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"
 
00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.
 
00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.
 
00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.
 
00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.
 
00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.
 
00:59:05 Debra: ❤️
 
01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
 
01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested...
https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/
 
01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.
 
01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.
 
01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.
 
01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like
01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂
 
01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..
 
01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏
 
01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part III

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?
 
00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?
 
00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.
 
00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?
 
01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling
 
01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part II

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion. 
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?
 
00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.
 
00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?
 
00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?
 
00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?
 
01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂
 
01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are
very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.
 
01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come
 
01:07:12 Paul: +1
 
01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose
 
01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!
 
01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!
 
01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL
 
01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..
 
01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father
 
01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.
 
01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!
 
01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!
 
01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren
 
01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!
 
01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.
 
00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.
 
00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?
 
00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂
 
00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣
 
00:38:47 Debra: 😁
 
00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?
 
00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus
 
00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness
 
00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.
 
00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩
 
00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!
 
00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣
 
00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!
 
00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!
 
00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇
 
00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.
 
00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!
 
00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.
 
01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...
 
01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆
 
01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him. 
The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂
 
00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!
 
00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and
 
00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go
 
00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy. 
 
He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.
 
00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁
 
01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions. 
So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart -  thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others. 
Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity. 
Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4
 
00:20:30 Jack: page?
 
00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4
 
00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie  Man of God.. He was very Holy
 
00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God
 
00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)?
 
00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?)
 
00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct
 
00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec
 
00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback
 
00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or
 
00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends
 
00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop
 
00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin
 
00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example
 
00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all.
01:01:45 Eric Ewanco: Seeing our own faults in another is called "projection"
 
01:05:28 Ambrose Little, OP: Hey, I love a good shower. :)
 
01:13:27 Carol: Was it cassian or climacus who also warned against joking?
 
01:14:34 Erick Chastain: Follow-up to Carol's: St Benedict warned against a certain kind of joking in his rule. 
 
A related quote: "A friend is a second self, so that our consciousness of a friend's existence...makes us more fully conscious of our own existence." -Aristotle
 
01:15:15 Erick Chastain: (Aristotle)
 
01:20:28 Anne Barbosa: THANK YOU!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXIV

There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety. 
Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive.  Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed.
 
00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements.
 
00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me”
 
00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury.  It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense?
 
00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs.
 
00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of.
 
00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course.
 
01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy.
 
01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
 
01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands).
 
01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter
 
01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying
 
01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God.
 
01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way.
 
01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable.
 
01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part III

A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One?  The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering?  What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts?
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202
 
00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph
 
00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;)
 
00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;)
 
00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel
 
00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes
 
00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here?
 
00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils:  to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not.  The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part II

We continued to listen to the Father‘s counsel on avoiding relationships or circumstances that can bring us spiritual harm. Such thought is not guided by a lack of love or charity or hospitality; rather it is rooted in an understanding that we are first to love the Lord our God with all of our mind, soul, heart, and strength. It is only having our love ordered and directed toward Him that our love of the things and and people within the world can be rightly ordered. We were given one example after another of how necessary it is to discern when relationships are drawing us away from God or the ways that the devil can use us through our negligence to harm others spiritually. We don’t engage in the spiritual battle in a state of isolation. Nor do we seek to live the life of virtue simply for ourselves. Love demands that we be attentive to loving God above all things in order that we might draw all toward Christ. 
Such simplicity and clarity in the way that one views the world and oneself, creates the purity of heart that is necessary to discern the path and the will of God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:29:57 Anthony: This is how I learned there was something wrong with some Catholic commentators.  They left me agitated about the legal aspect of the Faith....am I searching myself well enough, did I do this good enough? etc.  Jansenism
 
00:30:31 Anthony: on the church
 
00:30:37 Anthony: correcting the Novus ordo
 
00:30:42 Anthony: noveau telogie
 
00:32:36 Emma C: Where do we see the line between judging others vs judging their actions to know who to avoid?
 
00:35:42 Kevin Clay: I think we need to see that we can be that “foolish and thoughtless friend” to ourselves and not just others. We can be unwise, greedy, quarrelsome, arrogant, etc. We need to separate ourselves from our passions and the things that stir the passions.
 
00:44:37 Rachel: I was wondering about what you just mentioned. About being detached from ego. I was told recently to " Be at peace." in relation to something I did not realize was a distraction. At first, it made me wonder and uncomfortable. Since if I am not at peace, then something of what I spoke of must not be of God. It reminded me instantly of what a holy and wise priest told me. He said, not to speculate over matters. and it was clear, that the only thing needed was to stay in the moment with Our Lord.
 
00:45:35 Rachel: That these distractions are a result of idle distractions,no matter how good they appear. That God will take care of each moment and situation in His good Providence.
 
00:50:27 Debra: St. Bonaventure has a beautiful post-Communion prayer
 
https://tinyurl.com/4de5cj7z
 
00:50:54 Anthony: Thinking of just yourself and God:  In "A Man for All Seasons," St. Thomas More tries to break Richard Rich from avarice by telling him of the honor he would have as a mere teacher before God as his audience.  Had Richard Rich followed this advice, he would have avoided his moral downfall later on, and maybe even in his saving his soul, much of England would have been spared some of the violence of the 1500s. "Acquire a spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved." ~ St. Seraphim of Sarov
 
00:58:18 carolnypaver: If he had just said “no” the people would have wondered if the “brigand” would have been released IF ONLY the Elder had asked.  The Elder removed all doubt.
 
01:03:03 Rachel: I left a comment above about something you addressed. It seems his current reading ties into the discipline it takes to be detached not only from the things of this world but from oneself as well. Since our nous can be darkened, idle curiosities and distractions can wreak havoc in one's own life and those around them. Since the person given to these distractions will act from that skewed vision instead of the pure place of ordering everything to God and His good will alone
 
01:18:14 Rachel: You mentioned that purity in our day will be like the martyrs, because of the way the world is..in a beautiful homily our priest once gave, he mentioned St. Catherine of Siena. How she felt desperately that our Lord had left her in grave temptations. Yetm he reassured her that not only had he not left her but that she was more pleasing to him.
 
01:18:40 Rachel: So, it seems that fighting to stay with our Lord wont always feel rosy.
 
01:19:15 Ambrose Little: Advertising is not like in the old days. Moby Dick was a 900 page advert for the whaling industry. 😄
 
01:19:19 Anthony: The images themselves are very important in a post-rational environment when the senses and memory are wounded.  The Serbian Orthodox Church on YouTube has a 7 part series on the Icon and the contrast of iconic images versus the images that assault us.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thatis a wonderful series
 
01:22:08 Ren Witter: paypal.me/philokaliaministries
 
01:23:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you REn
 
01:24:41 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 
01:24:47 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! (And Ren 😎)
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part V and Hypothesis XXIII, Part I

Reading the Fathers often pierces the heart and changes our perspective upon life and our perception of reality itself. We continued with our reading of the fathers’ exhortation not to engage those who can bring harm to us in the spiritual life. This is often troublesome to modern sensibilities. The call to evangelize draws us out to engage the world. But what are we to give if we simply allow ourselves to be drawn back into the slavery of sin? We have to radically abandon our lives to Christ, conform our minds and hearts to His, and seek to live in obedience to His Will before we can bear witness to others. It is often said you cannot give what you do not have and the Fathers understood this in the fullest measure. We are capable of living a life of religion on the surface; of becoming comfortable with mediocrity and a religion of our own creation. Sometimes we do reduce our faith to a psychological construct and in this sense the modern critique of religion is on point. We have to be ever discerning of the deep attachment that we have to sin, to the things that lead to sin.  We must not live under the illusion that we are impervious to the power of the passions or temptation. We must be discerning, discriminating, in regards to everything that we experience within this world to determine whether or not it is from God. St Paul once said “we take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ.”This could be said of every relationship, every circumstance, we experience within this world. All things must be brought into the full light of the Truth.
 
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 195 letter K
 
00:30:07 Bridget McGinley: St Cyril of Alexandria wrote "Every creature loves his kind therefore those with vices like those with similar vices". I feel like this means we must know our vices well so that we know who we will be attracted to and could be stumbling blocks. "Holy peace is not found here" he added.  Yes, Facebook is very dangerous and social media is very dangerous. I need to take this advice seriously.
 
00:34:21 Anthony: I just realized, the evil eye - mal'occhio - is about envy.  It's a serious thing, for both Christians and pagans.
 
00:35:27 Carol: Envy is a spirit of hades. It battles unceasingly against righteousness and God...envy never stops, the spirit of hades envies all men for all things... elder Thaddeus.
 
00:41:32 Bridget McGinley: Crushing pressure to be inside the "wokeness"
 
00:42:07 Eric Williams: In 1931, Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen wrote the following essay:
 
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance-it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
 
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
 
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”
 
00:43:48 Carol Nypaver: Amen!  Venerable Archbishop Fulton John Sheen, pray for us!
 
00:54:05 Carol: it seems like this is a common message in the church as you said, and even the confessional
 
01:01:05 Anthony: Trauma reminds me of the story about the alcoholic monk who became alcoholic after seeing his village massacred when he was a child.
 
01:01:58 Paul Grazal: +1 On The Eight Vices manuscript Father.  Thank You.
 
01:20:13 sue and mark: it is good to wrestle with it
 
01:21:08 Emma C: When we are told to turn away from people who are stumbling blocks for us in the spiritual life, how do we evangelize others if we turn away from everyone who isn't helping us grow spiritually?
 
01:24:14 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part IV

We continued along the central theme of Hypothesis 22 and those that follow - we are to avoid entering into the things of the world and so lose what is most life-giving. 
The monk becomes a very powerful example of this danger because in his response to God’s call he leaves everything within the world in order to be wholly given over to God; to trust fully in God’s providence, to pray without ceasing and to embrace a life of modification.  It is to embrace the angelic life. In contrast to fallen angels, these men set aside all that is worldly in order to be fixed in mind and body completely on the Kingdom. Their whole life becomes a sacrifice of praise. 
To move away from this, becoming immersed once again in the things of this world is to become like a corpse. If one turns away from the source of life and salvation and turns to that which does not endure, then he himself will be reduced to nothing - to ashes. To understand this we have to have the faith to see the love and the life that God has given us in His Son. We must be able to see how precious it is; that it is the pearl of great price that we should be willing to sacrifice all to possess. 
Anything less, any different vision of life immediately opens the door for us to seek fulfillment and hope in the things of this world. If we do not value God above all things then we will misdirect that desire which is at the very heart of our being. When this happens we cease to be human beings.  We lose sight of our own dignity and the dignity of others. We will become like salt that has lost its saltness, as Jesus describes, and that has no worth.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192,
 
00:35:07 Daniel Allen: Is there a difference between conversing with people and conversing with “worldly” people in this? Specifically, I think of saints meeting with many people every day to give them counsel or just to listen to them? Saints such as St. Seraphim of Sarov or (fictional) the monk Zosimov from the Brothers Karamasov? Is it that they purified their hearts and attained to true humility before then speaking with people? Or again is it that the issue is speaking with people about trivial or frivolous things that dissipate the monk?
 
00:36:34 Edward Kleinguetl: Those who become spiritual fathers do not seek to become one. Many spend many years (25+) in prayer and solitude before they may be requested to be a spiritual father and confessor.
 
00:37:24 Edward Kleinguetl: They are well versed in Sacred Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers.  They do not share their own opinion. All advice is grounded in Scriptures and the Fathers.
 
00:45:27 Anthony: On the motions within the heart and relating to other people in wise or unwise interactions.  I think we have a mix of ignorance and vice in the interior life that lead us astray.  Imagine that your life is like a garden. You planted pepper seeds, but you have never seen pepper seedlings.  And, a wild animal enters in and sheds weed seeds and you don't realize it.  So, when the seedlings come up, you are not exactly sure what is a pepper and what is not. Sometimes you only gradually come to awareness on what is a good plant and a good fruit and what is not.  You look at pictures or have an experienced friend to teach you about the garden.  And that year, you miss the mark on a good garden, you get some fruit but not optimal.  But, you get experience for the next growing season, if you pay attention and learn from your mistakes.  Keep trying, and being patient and prune and weed as you realize you need to. :-)
 
00:57:36 Bridget McGinley: I think that news came out from the Pope and YES much needed !
 
00:58:16 Anthony: Friendship can be like alcohol.  Very valuable, but at the right times and in the right quantities.  We can misuse friendship to drown out our real needs.
 
01:03:10 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Met. Anthony Bloom - churchianity vs Christianity
 
01:03:15 Kevin Clay: Churchianity vs. Christianity by Met. Anthony Bloom
 
01:05:26 Rachel: This reading reminds me of St. Christina the Astonishing. Apparently the stench of the people in the church woke her from a coma so serious she was put into a coffin and the community was attending her funeral. And I think od St. Catherine of Sienna being able to smell the stench of sin in some...this always makes me wonder if I stinketh to others and if so, what can I do to have my prayers rise as incense.. :/
 
01:08:06 Carol: white washed tombs
 
01:12:42 carolnypaver: How do we NOT become “corpses” when we totally withdraw from the people in our lives? Don’t we become “dead” to them? Is that good for their souls?
 
01:18:03 Daniel Allen: Is it fair to take this one step further and say that the monk or Christian who follows this advice or path, then becomes salt to others who have no salt and become a means of salvation for those around us? A broader and larger connectedness, where the strengthening of one part aids the weaker parts of the body. A call to be salt to the world, and that one isn’t simply seeking a personal salvation but that one would seek to acquire this salt from God for the sake of others as well?
 
01:18:23 Rachel: Once, on the way to Mass, I ran into a homeless person who was thirsty. The young man was in a wheel chair, and when I tried to approach him, he begged me not to approach him. There was a very strong and unpleasant odor coming from him. I approached anyway and he told me, please, not to touch him or come closer as his legs were being eaten away by maggots. He lifted his gown and it is true, he was being eaten alive. I asked him why, if he wanted to go to the hospital and he declined. Said he had just been kicked out of the hospital. So I asked him if he wants a priest. I will get a priest. He said yes, to pray and he allowed me to give him my scapular as I thought he was close to death by the smell. He wold not allow me to put the scapular on but promised he would. I went to Mass which had already begun. I stopped the first priest I know, and told him what had happened. Asked him to please go see him immediately. He pulled back and told me that priest so and so deals with things like that. While
 
01:20:13 Rachel: While I cannot judge the priest, this, is an exactly  example of letting the moment pass by when we, when I, am called to do something that our Lord asks.
 
01:20:29 Bridget McGinley: Love the story Rachel thanks for sharing
 
01:21:22 Rachel: When I went back to check on him, the young man was gone.
 
01:25:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:29 Jack: thanks father whats the hat called
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part III

Both an inspiring and challenging section from the Evergetinos this evening!  The Fathers speak to us about the monastic life and its clear focus; a clarity that perhaps we have lost in more recent times. The monk lives for God, to seek God, to listen to God, and to pray. This he does as part of the Body of Christ, the Church, for the salvation of others. And yet we are shown how easy it is to cast off that “sweet yoke” of the Lord where He no longer has authority over us. Even a monk would gravitate away from what is described as the “Divine Wheat” that is drenched by the heavy rain of heavenly life bestowing Spirit. We leave peace and converse with God simply to be distracted by fleshly realities. We choose what is of passing and lesser value and let the divine slip through our fingers. 
The monks show us that we are to guard the heart;  in particular by guarding our words and what we listen to. We must always seek to make our speech edifying, seasoning our words with Divine salt so as to preserve the purity of heart in the others as well as in ourselves. We must not listen to unprofitable words but flee the situation where we are tempted. No one should be so deluded so as to think that we can expose ourselves to angry, hostile, or wicked words and not become wicked ourselves. All such things remain lodged in the memory, imagination and heart. Our relationship with God must be precious in our eyes even if this means avoiding those who are acquisitive or licentious. Rather we must gravitate to the righteous man who through his words and deeds will draw us closer to God. 
Do we want to be saved? This is the most powerful question of the night. It is a humbling thing to acknowledge our poverty of spirit and  so we can develop a resistance to God’s call to draw close to him. One may not want to be saved or find it too humiliating and so cling to a false self image. May God preserve us from such delusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:29 FrDavid Abernethy: page 190
 
00:11:37 FrDavid Abernethy: last paragraph
 
00:33:50 Anthony: In a way, this is an example of giving up a lesser good (awareness of others, or a form of fellowship) for the benefit of achieving a greater good?
 
00:36:09 maureencunningham: It seems like the early chuch was aware of demons
 
00:36:21 Jos: it gets even worse when it's about politics and religion
 
00:36:31 maureencunningham: It seems the America church has learned to adjust to them
 
00:36:58 maureencunningham: The early church called them demons
 
00:39:21 Paul Grazal: You wonder what engagement he had that made him think that.  I can think of a few that ive had that i should have avoided
 
00:40:58 Paul Grazal: Yes Thank You
 
00:41:38 Rachel Pineda: Tubes of paint... ,and books..
 
00:45:54 Anthony: Too much buying and selling and we don't know how to "be" but only to become; thus Americans are great in markets and inventions, but we neglect basic metaphysics about life, and we are now existing as several coexisting lost generations.
 
00:49:08 Lee Graham: We are entertaining ourselves to death
 
00:49:36 Carol: books and legos
 
00:50:41 Anthony: Or "The Great Wall" in 3D
 
00:57:20 Anthony: St. John of Damascus: "whether I will or not, O Lord, save me - quick, quick - for I perish."  Paraphrase from the Melkite Publicans Prayer Book.
 
00:59:37 maureencunningham: is it like piano it comes with much practice before one can play Bach
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Like the Pharisee and the publican, the delusion of the holy person vs the truth of the sinner
 
01:07:51 Anthony: I think it has something to do with an urge which has good roots: "It is not good for man to be alone."  This is a good thing, but out of order.
 
01:09:11 Daniel Allen: The language of God is silence is something I thought about recently and why silence? And because it’s the silence that allows Him to be heard, like the gentle breeze that Elijah heard. He doesn’t replace our voice, He waits to be heard.
 
01:12:00 Debra: I'm a scheduled Adorer, at my parish. And I really struggle with just sitting in silence. I feel like I should be praying a rosary, or reading about the saints...doing something
How can I develop the practice of sitting still? My brain is always racing through stuff
 
01:14:04 Paul Fifer: I think  Holy Hours were set to an Hour because it takes about 20 minutes to quiet our minds and hearts and enter into the Silence.
 
01:15:11 Debra: Paul: At least 20 minutes
 
01:16:06 Jos: is it advisable to think about God in the abstract or should we focus on Jesus as God to stay out of delusions in the face of the really mysterious idea of God?
 
01:20:27 Bridget McGinley: Thank you for that explanation Father.
 
01:21:04 Anthony: I just finished it.  It's amazing, drawing on the Greek fathers so sounds very orthodox
 
01:22:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you