Philokalia Ministries

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VII

As we continue our reading of Step 15 on purity and chastity, gradually we are being shown a broader vision of what is offered to us through the ascetical life. Purity and chastity are not limited to dealing with our sexual appetites. Rather, we are striving to overcome any impediment to our seeing things and loving things in the manner in which God created us. Our vision is often distorted by our sin to the extent that we will objectify the things of this world and individuals to be used in whatever means we see fit. We lose sight of the dignity of the other as well as the beauty of creation. A heart that has been purified is capable of seeing the presence of God in every person, regardless of their deeds, and in every element of creation. A pure heart is the freest in its capacity to love. 
Perhaps many of us have never tasted such a thing even in the smallest measure.  It is for this reason that St. John presents us not only with aids in the battle for purity, but also with the image of the highest degree of purity  we see in saintly individuals. They are often moved to tears when their capacity to see the world and others is elevated from the purely natural to the supernatural; to see the very essence and beauty of all things created by God.
---Text of chat during the group:
00:09:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 148 para 56
 
00:20:38 Lori Hatala: What is dwelling amongst the tombs?
 
00:21:08 Louise: They are suckling, not the breast but a bottle, nonetheless.
 
00:21:52 Anthony: St. Anthony the Great and St. Benedict were both assaulted by vivid images. It seems they are examples of struggle against the violence of images.  I think one of the Desert Mothers (Synclectica?) has a saying or two about this for women as well.
 
00:22:19 Rory: ?does God communicate through dreams?
 
00:25:46 angelo: The Jesus Prayer is also a great help.
 
00:34:51 Eric Ewanco: "a bruised reed he shall not break; a smoldering wick he shall not quench"
 
00:37:05 Patrick: St. John doesn't seem to often caution against attempting ascetical practices but seems to more often praise them. How does one balance gradually adding more over time while balancing a certain level of self-knowledge and identifying if, perhaps, it may be too much to apply a certain practice. Example: at least from my experience, vigils that impact getting a certain amount of sleep may seem to make fighting against various thoughts the next day more difficult. I suppose this must be discerned on a case-by-case basis since it seems nuanced in practice?
 
00:44:46 Nathan: I was thinking that sometimes as we 'rationally' reflect on these writings and concepts of ascesis or our various modes of living and ways of participating in the body of Christ that it helps us to remember that all of our relations and practices are to participate with Christ/Trinity in the wooing of all back into the intimate union of paradise and the kingdom - NOT so much discipline and effort but longing and love to restore full union between all and its dear God?
 
00:50:48 Rory: ?is there a presence of God in all people that can be seen?
 
00:50:50 Rachel: But perhaps it should be remembered that it is God Himself that reveals Himself in the other
 
00:52:26 Ashley Kaschl: Reminds me of a quote by Ven. Fulton Sheen: "Dear Lord, what can we, Thy followers, do to bring peace to the world? How can we stop brother rising up against brother and class against class, blurring the very sky with their cross-covered Golgathas?
Thy First Word on the Cross gives the answer: We must see in the body of every man who hates, a soul that was made to love. If we are too easily offended by their hate, it is because we have forgotten either the destiny of their souls or our own sins.
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Forgive us for ever having been offended. Then we, like Thee, may find among our executioners another Longinus, who had forgotten there was love in a heart until he opened it with a lance."
 
00:52:32 Rachel: That it is us who in the meantime patiently wait for Him to reveal himself, and grant this purity of heart and until then in all humilty know, that we guard our senses and hearts.. I only say this because it can be discouraging to find weakness so deeply rooted in our hearts
 
00:53:50 Nathan: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❣️
 
00:54:14 Ashley Kaschl: I love him 😂
 
00:54:23 Rachel: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with ❤️
 
00:54:23 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot..." with ❤️
 
00:54:46 Louise: At the Traditional Latin Mass, there is a beautiful prayer, "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus! Heaven and earth are full of Your glory, …Alleluia, alleluia."
 
00:55:20 carol nypaver: Reacted to "I love him 😂" with 🥰
 
00:55:33 Rory: Jesus spoke of the Samaritan who helps the man on the road who was beaten, as an example of how we treat our neighbor as ourselves
 
00:55:37 Rachel: This was meant to be attached to the other comment but the class moves faster than I can type +)
 
00:56:00 Ann Grimak: Reacted to "Reminds me of a quot…" with ❣️
 
01:00:21 Ashley Kaschl: That quote is either from his anthologies or from the little book of his sermons on the last seven words called “The Seven Capital Sins” it would be under the reflections on Anger/Wrath
 
01:00:53 Anthony: Maybe it would help to distinguish the different meanings of "sin" in the Bible and the Fathers.  It seems to me that one meaning is our general inclination to evil, another is entertaining what is wrong, another is doing what is wrong, another is "mortal sin."  These meanings maybe can get mixed up in our thinking about the Faith.  Sometimes the meaning "sin" seems univocal, but places like 1st John indicate that there are lots of meanings of "sin."
 
01:02:08 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Maybe it would help ..." with 👍
 
01:03:32 Rachel: What I was trying to touch upon was how we are supposed to see the other. With purity of heart. Amma Syncletica prayed that her heart would be pure towards all. This got me thinking many years ago about what that means. The purity of heart that Saint Climacus is speaking of is something rarely ever spoken of because many are stuck on the surface or, dont really know what it truly means to objectify the other. It is not only speaking in terms of lust but, there can be many ways in which we only seek ourselves and so God will not reveal himself or, we are incapable of seeing him in the other because our hearts have not been healed.
 
01:03:57 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "What I was trying to…" with ❤️
 
01:04:41 Rachel: I was trying to touch upon St. John speaking of how a soul in that state like Amma Sybcletica is speaking of does not pray that her heart be pure towards all so she may feel better about herself but so that she may see God, this side of the veil.
 
01:06:22 Rachel: Yes, just as you said Father, very simply. So she may love Him.
 
01:13:01 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:13:41 Nathan: Thank you so much (and for the Pentecost retreat) and
the so many many careful prayerful readings you guide us through
 
01:13:42 Rory: what is the email address? 
Have a good night
 
01:13:46 Michael Abele: Thank you Father!
 
01:13:49 Nathan: Replying to "Maybe it would help ..."
 
'inclination to evil'?  Guess I had understood that both evil and sin were swerves or mistaken applications of the good - not anything in themselves - but twistings of what is good in means or ends or fulfillments of the 'true' desire that evokes the activity?  Ascesis and 'purification' are to reorder these aims aright (in union with God)?  I had thunk - finding the fullness of the misguided in the way-truth-life?
 
01:13:50 Jeff O.: Amen! Thank you!
 
01:13:50 David Swiderski: Thanks father!
 
01:13:54 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part V

We are truly being nourished on solid food in reading the fathers. They present us not simply with a moralistic or legalistic view of sin and its impact upon our lives in the lives of others. We are to hold the peace of another’s heart as precious as we do our own. And when we are stirred to anger or hatred because we have been maligned and mistreated, we must not give way to hatred. Rather, we must suspend judgment and recognize that others are first and foremost tempted to sin as we are. We can hate the sin and the evil and in fact we should do so. But we must never lose sight of the dignity and identity of others or our own identity. 
When we get angry, we can lose our stillness and peace of mind and heart. These things are often hard won and so we must be careful not to cast them off easily. Nor should we cast off brotherly love lightly. We often can treat others with harshness and lack of generosity - never realizing that we place our souls and theirs’ in jeopardy. Again, I’m not speaking simply in moralistic terms. If we goad others to anger, we can make them lose hope in the providence and love of God. If we treat their vulnerability, not with generosity and support but abuse it, then we sin against charity - we sin against Christ. 
We must learn to slow things down internally; for we do not see all ends; even when we think we see things clearly. Our goal should be to live in divine love and help this divine love be maintained in our relationships with each other. In fulfilling, the commandment to love, we are offered and promised everything - to be sons and daughters of God. In light of this, whatever lengths we go to guard our minds and our hearts from anger is worth it.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 348 letter G
 
00:22:19 Adam Paige: I just received an icon today of the Synaxis of the Bodiless Hosts
 
00:29:53 Rory: ?is divine providence the stillness among the passions of life?
 
00:37:05 Rory: ?is God revealing the truth in our silence when anger is expressed from another?
 
00:39:57 Louise: Father, what would you say about people who sue here and there to deal with their anger?
 
00:48:25 John Ingram: This reminds me of the Roman judges who flew off the handle, into a rage immediately upon hearing the testimony of the Christians they were sentencing.
 
01:03:55 David Fraley: I’m sorry I’m so late. I forgot today is Monday.
 
01:04:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I’m sorry I’m so lat..." with ➕
 
01:07:27 Rory: when someone trespasses another, 
is this God's way of showing us the clarity through peace and hope.
 
01:09:52 Rory: ?is anger really fear? 
and wouldn't Divine Love 
quell that fear
 
01:17:44 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:18:08 Louise: Thanks you, Father.
 
01:18:09 Helena Babington Guiles: Thank you Father David. Very helpful. 🙏🏼🤍
 

”The Prayer of Fire” - A Pentecost Retreat, Session Three

”The Prayer of Fire” - A Pentecost Retreat, Session Two

”The Prayer of Fire” - A Pentecost Retreat, Session One

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part VI

John continues to draw us ever deeper into the mysteries of the human mind and heart. We are in a constant state of receptivity as human beings. We are constantly engaged with the world around us through our senses. Our vigilance, therefore, must be of such a nature that we take these things into consideration. The sense of touch, the sense of hearing, etc., all can be things that give rise to the passions. In and of themselves, they may not be sinful and may not lead to sin on many occasions. However, our understanding of the power of this receptivity leads to the realization that the evil one can use them as a source of temptation. There is no room for pride in the battle that emerges from sensuality. 
Even actions and behaviors from the past remain forever in the imagination and memory. They are deeply ensconced in the unconscious. No matter how long ago certain things took place, something in the present day can give rise to and trigger those memories ever so powerfully. Conceit will always be our downfall; when we think our spiritual practices or circumstances, place us outside the reach of temptation. Saint Isaac the Syrian said in the spiritual battle there is no Sabbath. In other words, there is no rest in this life when dealing with the temptations of the evil one.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:12:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page
 
00:17:47 Anthony: Maybe the way "Theology of the Body" is approached by some teachers, the way physicality and theology are intertwined and appealed to by the imagination is a dangerous thing.
 
00:19:46 Rory: ?is the silent stillness our spiritual existence?
 
00:24:51 Louise: Could reading the Psalms written by King David stimulate the sexual appetite because he gravely fell in the sins of fornication and adultery, and also murder?
 
00:35:48 Cindy Moran: I don't understand this about the man & his mother...
 
00:37:58 Rory: ?are words a sense of touch?
 
00:38:15 Cindy Moran: Ok...I am getting more clarity...thank you.
 
00:38:50 Anthony: It's a sad reality that such a thing as incest exists.  I guess the watchword is chastity or prudence, not focusing on so many permutations of evil that exist.
 
00:43:26 Cindy Moran: My mother told us to remember that you can't "unsee" something.
 
00:49:54 David Swiderski: There used to be a long tradition of contemplating the 5 wounds. I have found this extremely helpful to also sort out personal wounds. There is something strangely beautiful in overcoming suffering.
 
00:51:08 Rory: ?are deep wounds transcended by surrendering our weakness to God?
 
00:52:11 David Swiderski: The cross itself is our sign of victory
 
00:52:51 B.M.: Reacted to "The cross itself is ..." with ❤️
 
00:53:16 David Swiderski: Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me.
Within your wounds conceal me.
Do not permit me to be parted from you.
 
00:54:41 Lorraine Green: Is there a third order for laymen that is mainly Eastern?
 
00:54:54 Anthony: The demons see out want to follow Christ and take advantage of our weakness to crucify us by our weakness, so we then have a real solidarity with the Crucified One.
 
00:56:12 wayne: I belong to the eastern rite, and to my knowledge there is not third order in the east
 
00:57:33 Anthony: Replying to "Is there a third o..."
 
An internet search shows there are "associates" of monastaries - Holy Resurrection Monastery, Sisters of St. Basil.  These are answers at byzcath.org.
 
01:14:05 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 Excellent session...thank you Father!
 
01:14:13 Lorraine Green: Replying to "Is there a third ord..."
 
Thank you
 
01:14:17 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:14:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:21 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David.
 
01:14:38 Louise: Thank you!
 
01:14:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 
 
 🙏
 
01:14:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part V

The subtlety of Temptations! Again, and again the fathers show us the relentless work of the evil one in drawing the mind ans the heart of individuals into sin. He can create within our hearts a kind of childishness; a veneer of sanctity or virtue. One can experience, joy or tears or consolation in their soul, but it can all be an illusion, and not truly rooted in repentance. It is for this reason that we so often backslide in the spiritual life. We do not let go of the attachments that we have to the things that lead us into sin. We may repent and go to confession, but within our hearts we still hold on to a multitude of things that give rise to temptation or that stimulate our inclination to particular sins. Fornication in particular is something that is seen as having great weight among the fathers because it is so tied to our very make up as human beings and to our bodily appetites and desires. We can fall into error in our thinking and be corrected of this error even when we cling to it with pride. But once we have acknowledged the error we are unlikely to return to it. However, when the sins of the flesh become tied up with our imagination and memory, and when we give ourselves over to the sin, the deeper the roots become. What is lodged in the imagination and memory is easily taken hold of again through fantasy, at first, and then finally an action. Therefore the sins the flesh often need the greatest commitment to ascetic disciplines in order to uproot them. We were told in the Scriptures that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent to bear it away. Similarly, there are things that we must be willing to cut out of our life in order to keep us from falling into the same sins again. Our desire and our courage in doing so, however, is often lacking.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:54 John Ingram: Greater Cincinnati/N KY
 
00:08:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 145 para 42
 
00:25:53 Ashley Kaschl: Is St. John saying this over sharing/emotionalism be a symptom of this sin?
 
00:25:53 Louise: Blind to consequences.
 
00:29:25 Louise: Hooking up maybe to avoid aloneness at all cost.
 
00:29:26 Debra: Hook Up culture isn't just on Universities
 
00:32:27 Rory: Being in the moment with prayer, incarnate with God, we are never alone, as a temple of the Holy Spirit
 
00:36:40 Rory: ?is sin a correction?
 
00:37:39 Anthony: When I look at the history of heresy, I see that mental and physical errors often go together.
 
00:39:00 Anthony: Examples that come to mind: Marcion & other Gnostics; Cathars; Lutherans; Munsterites
 
00:45:48 Louise: As a Catholic child, I was taught that we were forgiven if we recognize our fault, repent (suffer from having caused pain, which would reduce repetition), and to repair (in reality as much as possible). The last two requirements seem to be dismissed these days , especially the third one.
 
00:48:17 Ambrose Little, OP: It goes both ways. Some heretics go the way of
overly puritanical approaches to the Faith.
 
00:54:31 Ashley Kaschl: The thought troubles me, and there’s a lot more to be said, I think, but the penance of not being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist because of the sin of fornication makes a lot of sense. 
 
Being that we receive the whole Christ, if someone has developed a deeply rooted habit of fornication they would have a kind of morbid, contraceptive disposition of soul that says “I want the pleasure of receiving Christ in the Eucharist, but I do not want His effects.” Even if the soul is fighting against the sin, that person still needs to be freed from that disposition before seeking a union with God they have trained their body and, thus, their soul not to seek above all other things. Obviously it’s not so cut and dry but I can see what the footnote is saying 😅
 
00:54:38 Rory: ?are there degrees of repentence?
 
00:58:03 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "The thought troubles..." with 👍
 
00:59:45 sue and mark: communion is the medicine....  I think that I disagree
 
01:02:49 Anthony: In my opinion, that goes back to the Germanic we-gild, or man price to satisfy for offenses in place of taking a "pound of flesh" so to speak.  When the Roman Catholic Church became more of a Germanic entity, we used a Germanic example (in my opinion) of penance, and of Purgatory / indulgences.
 
01:02:59 Anthony: "wer-gild"
 
01:04:00 David Swiderski: I have to admit the desert fathers helped me tremendously as they have practical things to overcome temptations, situations or vices. I wish in the confessional there was more application of those especially to younger people who give up before knowing of these weapons in the spiritual battle.
 
01:04:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:23 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:04:32 Art: I recently heard about priests telling people in the confessional “Be brief, be contrite, and be gone”.
 
01:05:04 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:05 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:12 John Ingram: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:05:28 Bonnie Lewis: Yes, I had a priest say, "just get to the sins!"
 
01:06:29 Lyle: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍
 
01:07:10 David Swiderski: The church as an ER and priest or elders as spiritual doctors
 
01:08:45 Eric Ewanco: I hate it when I go to a scheduled confession period in an unfamiliar church and no priest is there
 
01:09:34 Michael: Unfortunately, I have mostly seen the opposite problem. Exponentially more people going up for communion than are going to confession. I think many people are not well-catechized and don't realize the gravity of receiving communion without ever going to confession.
 
01:09:59 Ambrose Little, OP: Not our job to be judging others..
 
01:10:25 Michael: I don't mean to judge those people, I just think it is a big problem that so many are unaware. It isn't their fault
 
01:11:15 Michael: Precisely
 
01:13:17 Cindy Moran: Any thoughts about a book called The Philokalia and The Inner Life On Passions and Prayer written by Christopher Cook Psychiatrist
 
01:14:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:15 angelo: Thank you father David.
 
01:14:22 Michael: Thank you Father David
 
01:14:25 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:14:32 Jacqulyn: Thank you! Quite a blessing. :-)
 
01:14:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you always Father.
 
01:14:37 John Ingram: Thank you, Father!
 
01:14:49 Louise: Thanks so much!
 
01:15:23 sue and mark: Good night and thank you.
 
01:15:27 Jeff O.: Amen, Thank you!
 
01:15:29 Debra: Thank you, for all you do!
 
01:15:29 Cindy Moran: Excellent session
 
01:15:31 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part IV

Once again, we are presented with a kind of fickleness that can plague the human heart. We can be ever so changeable. This includes how we look upon even our greatest commitments. The moment something becomes a trial for us or where we are asked to endure something that is reprehensible, or that causes us some suffering, we will want to change the external circumstances of our life. 
However, the fathers in their writing show us how the evil one constantly seeks to magnify such experiences to the point that they breakdown our commitment to our particular vocation or vows. The one who has lived the common life for years can have the seed implanted in his heart that he would be happier or holier as an anchorite. Or one who is old of age might be tempted into thinking that his life no longer has value, and that he can no longer fulfill the rule in the way that he did as a young man. He begins to think about retiring from the religious life all together. Such thinking is pervasive and enters into every vocation. 
Having said this, however, we also have to be aware of the fact that we can face obstacles in our environment, such as the envy of others that becomes destructive or immorality. In these circumstances, it may be necessary to change one’s environment.  We need to recognize that we are responsible for the spiritual well-being and fidelity of others. If we treat others without love, without respect, then we can put their vocation and their spiritual life in jeopardy. This is a sober reminder of the solidarity that exist between us. The only way that we are allowed to treat another person is to love them.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hello Navy Dave!!!
 
00:03:26 David Fraley: I love those photos of you and your mom! Neither of you have changed!
 
00:03:42 FrDavid Abernethy: I look older than she does
 
00:04:24 David Fraley: Mrs Abernethy, you and I met at the Oratory a few years ago.
 
00:47:37 Ren Witter: Something about all these examples makes me really sad, and I think it has something to do with how they show that our words and actions can have such a profound on the ability of another to resist temptation. In all these examples, the temptations would have little weight if the elder in question was treated in such a way that he was assured of the affection and support of his fellow, younger monks.
 
00:48:08 Ren Witter: I just imagine how the way we treat others makes them more or less susceptible
 
00:51:00 David Fraley: Reacted to "I just imagine how t…" with 👍
 
00:54:46 Ren Witter: I am thinking, and I don’t think this is an overstatement, that when we treat others in a way that says “you are worthless,” “you are not worth my time,” “you don’t deserve kindness,” “you are a lost cause,” and many other such things, that we are not just making them more susceptible to the temptations of the demons, but are in fact becoming the tempting demon ourselves. We are already doing the demons’ job for them.
 
00:58:14 Anthony: "The Three Musketeers" has a plotline about a woman who left the convent in a bad way, and she brought ruin and misery to several men throughout her life until an avenger caught up with her.  It ties together some themes discussed today.
 
00:59:58 Louise: Sometimes, to be ethical, we have to confront, directly or indirectly, the obvious incompetence and even maliciousness of others. Of course, their hidden demons come out then forcibly. This would not be a sin, right?
 
01:03:07 John Ingram: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
I think St. Francis de Sales talked about how to respond to negative people (heretics, etc.): treat them with honey, not with vinegar.
 
01:05:48 Louise: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..."
 
Good point! However, some people even envy you when you treat them with honey, because they do not have honey and they hate you for having honey.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part IV

Piercing! The vision of a Saint becomes ever so sharp. Out of their own experience of the desert, and the spiritual warfare engaged in there, comes a wisdom that strikes, hopefully, our hearts. Our hearts can become hardened by being so long immersed in sin. When the sin becomes hardened and habitual, becomes a passion, it is not easy to break free from it. 
Yet words alone, even the words of the Saints, are unable to break us free. There must be within our hearts a faith and willingness to take hold of the grace of God that comes to us through Christ to enter into the fray, to fight the good fight of faith, and to engage fully in the ascetical life. 
Both the habit of sin and the temptation of the Evil One often keeps us mired deeply in darkness. Yet we must strive to let the little light that is given to us draw us forward and emboldened our hearts. A different vision of reality is set before us; one that has come into being through the Incarnation and the Paschal mystery. We are called, not simply to be good people and those of high natural virtue but rather sons and daughters of God. Christ’s virtue is to become our virtue. His strength must become our strength. This is not something that we seize upon with our own hands but receive with humility and gratitude. With these two virtues may we set out on the journey with an invincible hope.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:04:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 paragraph 31
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 para 31
 
00:23:03 Michael: Is there any truth to the idea that God is particularly merciful about "natural" sins? CS Lewis said something similar in Mere Christianity.
 
00:31:28 Anthony: I suggest we read the passage of the Woman caught in Adultery in the context of Susanna and the Elders.
 
00:53:09 Lawrence Martone: Sometimes we have to question if we are doing the right thing, but we don’t have a spiritual director.  Is there an equivalent of Ignatian Discernment methods with the Desert Fathers?
 
00:56:54 Daniel Allen: Is that type of humility why someone such as St Philip Neri can say (paraphrasing), I have done nothing good today I will begin again… and mean it? Because to the outside observer obviously St Philip did much good.
 
01:05:57 Brad Smith: Is this similar to Psalm 137:9 about dashing infants against the stone…i.e. dealing with the sin early and completely?
 
01:06:41 LauraLeigh Monterey: My Egyptian is food. :-) So, I am to turn the power behind that appetite toward its source, which is God, yes? Can you explain a little more what that means in practical terms? That is, how exactly does one "kill the Egyptian"? Would it depend on what the Egyptian is?
 
01:11:18 Ashley Kaschl: This makes me think a lot about a Christmas Carol when Scrooge is first visited by Marley and how he’s fearful of this chain wrapped all around his friend more so than the fact that he’s a ghost. And Marley asks him “do you know the weight and length of the chain you bear yourself?” And I think that’s a lot like this Egyptian and how we may not know we are slaves to our sin and wrapped in chains.
 
01:11:23 Anthony: Replying to "Is this similar to..."
 
That's what I was thinking.  I think the monks interpret it this way.
 
01:12:47 Cindy Moran: What is the title of Pope Shenouda's book?
 
01:13:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:19 angelo: Thank you!
 
01:14:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:14:27 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part III

We returned to hypothesis 40 and found ourselves sitting at the feet of Saint Ephrem the Syrian. We are shown with frightening clarity how the evil one works upon our minds and our hearts by making us question the value and the significance of our particular vocation.  We are often tempted to change externals; thinking that when we do so we will find a place that fosters greater sanctity, peace of mind and heart, or offers a greater opportunity for prayer. The evil one constantly seeks to tempt us to this instability in order that we might never put down deep roots - and so also never bear ripe fruit, if any fruit at all. 
The grass always looks greener on the other side. There are always going to be things that seem to be lacking in our life or in our relationships, whether real or perceived, that make us vulnerable to this kind of attack. Therefore, we are counseled to be equally relentless in putting things to the test. We must fast and pray and seek the counsel of others. Likewise, we must never make decisions in moments of desolation. It is not as though the fathers are saying that we can never be called to walk another path. Rather, they are telling us that all of our actions must be guided by prudence; a kind of practical wisdom that arises out of long experience within the inner desert of the heart. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 342 top of the page
 
00:43:21 John Ingram: I'm wondering whether the extreme depravity of the modern world creates a greater temptation to retreat to a more extreme asceticism than, say, a century ago, or even during the times of the Desert Fathers. Thus we're in more danger of being thrown off balance from a balanced approach.
 
00:50:30 Louise: Would  recommend allowing ourselves to experience the void elated to the longing to be with the Beloved, being conscious and tolerating the pain of longing while also being in this world with its joys and pleasures in a contained way.
 
01:07:24 Louise: I think of Job these days. He was thrown into ascetism, losses, and pain, beyond his volition. God tested him via the evil one. At times, I imagine myself in the place of Job in a near future, in the hope to remain faithful and in love with God whatever happens, even I do not understand why this is occurring. Maybe Job's trial was a demonstration for us.
 
01:11:02 Adam Paige: It’s the feast of Job this week actually
 
01:14:05 Melissa Kummerow: Wish I had been able to tune in earlier but everything that's been talked about so far has been very timely to my own life right now. Seems to be par for the course with your groups, Father David lol
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part III

How does one begin to speak about purity and chastity in an age that hyper-sensualizes the human experience?  When we define ourselves so tightly and, in particular, so tightly to disordered desire, how is it that we bear witness to and embrace the call of Saint John and the other fathers to purity? Part of the answer to these questions is to immerse ourselves in the vision of the fathers; their anthropology and psychology and the spirituality that shapes these things. However, this only begins to lead us to an understanding of who and what we have become in Christ.  If it remains purely notional we will inevitably be drawn back in to what the culture puts before us. What Christianity calls us to is to see ourselves only in light of Christ and to find meaning and identity in Him. Likewise, we must see the radical solidarity that exists between every one of us as human beings made in the image and likeness of God. We are called to a life of radical conversion and repentance.  When we look out into the world and see great evil or sin, our response must be to turn to God with even greater zeal and desire. We must embody the love, joy, peace, and purity of the kingdom. Anything less is going to ring hollow to the world. To speak of purity or chastity in simple moralistic or legalistic terms is to fail to understand what we have become in Christ. It is the Spirit of God that dwells within us and we are not called to embody natural virtue much less what private judgment puts forward as good. It is the beauty of Divine life that must shine forth in our every thought and action.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 142, para 19
 
00:30:23 Anthony: I kind of think I (we?) try too hard to be Christians, and that is a self-centered and very difficult focus.  It's not the way of easy relief of Christ's cross.  It's my cross.
 
00:31:39 Anthony: My pastor once mentioned how we make our own heavy, too heavy crosses.
 
00:33:50 Eric Ewanco: I try to project the seraph serpent mounted on a pole to the Eucharist lifted up during the liturgy, sending out healing to me from the crucifixion of Christ
 
00:50:56 Michael: Oh wow, I thought it was just a metaphor. I didn’t realize he was literally talking about bestiality.
 
00:51:29 angelo: Reacted to "Oh wow, I thought it..." with 👍
 
00:55:18 Ashley Kaschl: This isn’t necessarily related to chastity but there’s a book about how normal people became murderers during WWII called “Ordinary Men” and its incredibly humbling. I would definitely recommend it. There’s a quote that always sticks with me from the psychological study of genocide in that book that states “Evil that arises out of ordinary thinking and is committed by ordinary people is the norm, not the exception.” (Ervin Staub, author of “The Roots of Evil: The Origins of Genocide and other Group Violence”)
 
00:58:41 Anthony: I get this idea from E Michael Jones: "Sexual Liberation is a tool of Social Control."  He bases this on St. Augustine and events in world history which illustrate how sexuality has been used to enslave the imagination and soul.  Maybe that will help.
 
01:01:03 Louise: At an older age, there is an appeasement of the bodily
pulsions. Therefore, there is a lot of good to say about older age. I am thankful. Maybe it is partly due to my turning to the Beloved many years ago, repeating again and again in my Heart, ''There is no god but God.''
 
01:17:16 David: Isn't a lot of this the consequence of "Relativism". Feelings have replaced truth.
 
01:17:50 Louise: Otherwise, these people will sue you, as an honest clinician.
 
01:18:01 carol nypaver: True, David.
 
01:18:13 Ashley Kaschl: I wonder if it’s a step further than relativism. Vice has replaced virtue to the extent that it has become “virtuous” to extol it.
 
01:18:58 angelo: Thank you Father.
 
01:19:02 melissa kummerow: Thank you!!!!
 
01:19:05 David: Thank you father!
 
01:19:06 sue and mark: Good night everyone.  Thank you Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part II

Stability of place leads to and protects internal emotional and spiritual stability. One must not be tempted to change one’s external environment; thinking that somehow another place holds greater promise for producing virtue within our hearts. Such thoughts must be tested over the course of many years and placed before one’s spiritual elder for scrutiny. Often the evil one will seek to draw us along another path because we are being afflicted or frustrated or our self-esteem is being diminished in some fashion. We must keep our focus upon Christ in the midst of this battle. He alone is the wholly innocent One. He did not flee the Cross that was set before him and ultimately gave his assent to the Father’s will. Our faith and hope in God and what he can bring about by his providence and grace must be our guiding light.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:08:00 FrDavid Abernethy: page 336, Letter C
 
00:48:34 Ashley Kaschl: What you said about scripture where Jesus asks “do you want to be well?” reminded me of a part of the Surrender Novena to the Sacred Heart: “In pain you pray for me to act, but that I act in the way you want. You do not turn to me, instead, you want me to adapt to your ideas. You are not sick people who ask the doctor to cure you, but rather sick people who tell the doctor how to.”
 
00:52:55 Louise: Could it be that Theodora fully accepted this ordeal because she had previously deceived the monks of the monastery in believing that she was a man? Thus, this was a just punishment by God, which she embraced.
 
00:55:59 Louise: I see.
 
01:02:11 John Ingram: Not sure where this poem came from, but on the subject of spiritual pride, here is one stanza:
 
01:03:47 John Ingram: "And when the prayer unto my lips doth rise/"Let me but offer Thee some glorious sacrifice/Let me accomplish some great work for Thee!"/Subdue it, Lord, let my petition be Make me but useful in this world of Thine/In ways according to Thy Will, not mine."
 
01:05:00 Louise: Father, would you see anorexia as an ego-based asceticism driven by diabolical obsession?
 
01:05:30 John Ingram: No idea!
 
01:07:05 Paul Fifer: Found the poem…. Here is a link:  https://www.google.com/books/edition/Irish_Monthly/_W43AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22And+when+the+prayer+unto+my+lips+doth+rise/%22Let+me+but+offer+Thee+some+glorious+sacrifice/Let+me+accomplish+some+great+work+for+Thee!%22/Subdue+it,+Lord,+let+my+petition+be+Make+me+but+useful+in+this+world+of+Thine/In+ways+according+to+Thy+Will,+not+mine.%22&pg=PA509&printsec=frontcover
 
01:07:09 John Ingram: Follow-up to other stanza: first stanza is: "Let me not die before I've done for Thee/my earthly work, whatever it may be./ Call me not hence with mission unfulfilled/ let me not leave my space of ground untilled."
 
01:07:51 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:09:38 David Fraley: Reacted to "Follow-up to other s…" with ❤️
 
01:14:39 Sandy Nelson: A first time listener this evening . . where can I get a copy of the Evergetinos?
 
01:15:08 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A first time listene…" with ❤️
 
01:15:23 Sandy Nelson: Thank you
 
01:16:58 sue and mark: Thank you Father.  God bless everyone.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part II

The depth of the fathers’ understanding of the workings of the mind and the heart, the appetites and desires, is staggering. One of the great fruits of the ascetic life of the Desert fathers is what it reveals about the desert of the human heart. Jeremiah the prophet wrote: “The human heart is a treacherous thing.  Who can endure it“. How true this is! St. John Climacus gradually begins us to draw us in to the subtle workings of our bodily appetites, in particular those tied to sensuality. Our vision of ourselves, and others can become so easily distorted by our sin. We become unable to see the beauty not only of the world around us, but of the human person and every aspect of their being. We all use ourselves and others and the things of this world in a desperate attempt to fill a void within our hearts. We long for the love of God. Even the atheist, one who denies God with all their heart, experiences this longing. They may be completely unaware of its source but nonetheless desperately seek something to fill it. And in those times when we are not wrapped up in the attempt or the delusion of fullness, we experience depression. There is no human being that does not experience isolation and the pain of loneliness even when surrounded by others and an abundance of worldly goods. St. John painstakingly reveals to us the nature of the struggle for purity of heart in order that we might be freed from seeking for the love and fullness anywhere else than in the bosom of God. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:25 Kevin Burke: I am just getting started on this forum and really enjoying it, I plan to catch up with the previous lessons as well.
 
Can you tell me what version of the book that we are using in this forum? I have the Paulist version but it’s very different and I would like to get the precise same version.
 
00:03:14 Adam Paige: Replying to "I am just getting st..."
 
The Holy Transfiguration Monastery version we use is a revision of this earlier 1959 translation: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf
 
00:31:20 Anthony: St. Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs does a very good job of drawing holy innocence from a love story.
 
00:34:04 Anthony: Replying to "St. Gregory of Nar..."
 
"The Blessing of Blessings: Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs" Translated from the AArmenian by Roberta Ervine, Cistercian Publications, (c) 2007
 
00:34:48 Louise Gaston: Would you say that purity of heart coupled with an observing ego allows for a sensitive detachment and discernment? With God's grace too?
 
00:34:51 angelo: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:38:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "greater still is the man unhurt by all he has looked upon." says this translation...
 
00:39:24 Rodrigo Castillo: The Blessing of Blessings: Grigor of Narek's Commentary
on the Song of Songs (Cistercian Studies books) (Volume 215) https://a.co/d/7ZqSBAW
 
00:40:44 angelo: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:41:31 Louise Gaston: Would you say that one's engagement in pornography, gluttony, etc. is basically a defense against the pain of our longing for God's presence?
 
00:45:59 Adam Paige: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️
 
00:46:08 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍
 
00:50:07 Anthony: Fr. Barnabas Powell (Greek Orthodox) has a saying "You are not your thoughts."  I think that has a place in psychological reflection
 
00:50:30 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:52:18 Sean: In ‘Christ — Our Pascha’, the Ukrainian Catholic catechism, it says: 
 
“When a person in prayer meets God in the depths of one's heart, one already here on earth directly experiences that which the apostle Paul describes as seeing God ‘face to face’ (1 Cor 13:12). The person ‘sees’ the One in whom he or she has believed. The person abides in God's presence. The apostle Paul compares this new state of the person to a ‘seeing’ of God…it is a ‘seeing’ of the Invisible One.“ And Metropolitan Hierotheos in ‘Orthodox Psychotherapy’ writes: “The pure heart is the organ of knowledge, the organ of Orthodox epistemology.” 
 
Thank you, Father☦️
 
https://eeparchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Christ-our-Pascha-Catechism-of-the-Ukrainian-Catholic-Church-by-Comission-for-the-Catehism-z-lib.org_.pdf
 
00:53:42 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍
 
00:59:12 Anthony: So truth must be, as Soren Kierkegaard said, Objective-subjective.  The internal assent must be actively given to the external reality.  This is how the Blessed Virgin MAry lived.
 
00:59:46 Adam Paige: Reacted to "So truth must be, as..." with 🇩🇰
 
01:01:13 Louise Gaston: Difficult question - Is Christ in the Eucharist when it is
consecrated by ''funny'' modernist priests? (those with an irrespectful attitude)
 
01:04:47 angelo: Fr. I have a question: self-flagellation as a mortification is still be helpful in this battle? I heard  that it is no longer permitted by the church.
 
01:07:15 David: This seems different by culture. The chapel of N. Sra of Guadalupe still washes blood on the cobblestones from the knees of faithful entering the chapel
 
01:08:08 David: Opus Dei still uses the cilus
 
01:10:16 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:10:18 Sean: Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:10:19 David: Thank you father!
 
01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:10:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part IV, and Chapter XV: On Chastity, Part I

Tonight we made the transition from St. John’s Step on Gluttony and its offspring to our discussion of Purity and Chastity in Step number 15. Again, as we read slowly through the text and begin to unpack it, we begin to see the larger picture; the image of humanity redeemed. We see what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God, and the experience of embracing our full dignity and identity. 
What is held out to us is an incorruptible freedom and joy as our love becomes ordered toward God. We begin to see the true beauty of the things of the world, of others, and of God himself. As I’ve often mentioned, the desert fathers were the first depth psychologists; they present to us the path that brings healing of soul. They see the human person in his fullness and we see in their writings such our true dignity and destiny. 
Our struggle often is found in the fact that we’ve never come to taste that freedom, the joy, the capacity to love unimpeded by our sin. The ascetic life is not about endurance, or personal health or the ordering of our life so much as it is about the desire for God, his love, and to share in the life that he makes possible for us. It has been said that “Beauty will save the world”. In the writings of the fathers, we are called to see this beauty first in the person of Christ; and in and through him the beauty of the life that is held out to us. May we desire it with all of our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Who? Author?
 
00:12:44 Anthony: Pope Shenouda
 
00:13:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: THanks
 
00:13:35 FrDavid Abernethy: page 138
 
00:13:38 FrDavid Abernethy: no 32
 
00:14:03 Anthony: If y'all have Coptic Orthodox parishes nearby with food festivals .... GO!
 
00:23:15 Cindy Moran: This reminds me of: the kingdom suffers violence and the violent seize it by force--Mt 11:12
 
00:25:17 Debra: What Step and paragraph
 
00:26:44 Lori Hatala: step 14 para 36
 
00:26:55 Debra: Replying to "step 14 para 36"
 
Thank you!
 
00:32:35 Anthony: I get it, but cooking is an art.  Food is beautiful.  Nothing God made - matter or form - is evil.  What we consider to be food needs reform.  Our habits need reform to appreciate the art.  But I'm a bit concerned that some of these fathers are a presenting the stick too much and the carrot to little.
 
00:39:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "I get it, but cookin..."
 
The carrot is food, which is bad. ;)
 
00:39:39 angelo: Reacted to "The carrot is food, ..." with 😂
 
00:40:08 Anonymous Sinner: The movie Babette’s Feast comes to mind
 
00:42:27 Anthony: In Sicilian, the word for this kind of boorish glutton is gavonne (cafone).
 
00:43:47 Bonnie Lewis: I love that movie.  It's beautiful.
 
00:47:27 Anthony: I don't suppose I pray as much as I "should," but I have a wondrous happiness when creating like cooking
 
00:48:58 Bridget McGinley: Father this is a little off topic… was St John Cassian a priest? Also, Do you know of any books which talk about his devotion to St Mary Magdalene? I recently returned from France/Spain where I learned St John founded a monastery adjacent to her cave in 415. The Cassians protected her cave for hundreds of years. The Dominicans have had it since about the 1200’S. It just seems like he understood penance on the same level as she did.
 
00:49:54 wayne: Well we now have foods that create little preparation and in turn we have lost the art form of preparation and also we don't have the sense of where our food comes from.
 
00:50:57 Bridget McGinley: Sorry I know it was a little off topic.
 
00:51:39 angelo: That is true Father that the meal table is no longer table of sharing, I live and I am from a family first immigrant of this country and we all have jobs in different shifts and we don't see each other, eating alone is so sad that leads to eat more and more and watch tv until we doze off.
 
00:52:02 Anthony: Replying to "I get it, but cook..."
 
Carrot slaw, carrot cake....
 
00:52:10 Anthony: Reacted to "The carrot is food..." with 😂
 
00:52:21 Anthony: Reacted to "Well we now have f..." with 👍
 
00:52:39 Anthony: Reacted to "That is true Fathe..." with ❤️
 
00:54:34 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: In Eastern monasteries, the refectory walls are covered with iconography.
 
00:54:44 Anthony: Reacted to "In Eastern monaste..." with ❤️
 
00:54:49 Vicki Nichols: Replying to "Father this is a lit..." 
 
Saint Mary Magdalene by Fr. Davidson is a good book
 
00:55:17 angelo: Reacted to "In Eastern monasteri..." with ❤️
 
00:55:33 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Saint Mary Magdalene…" with ❤️
 
01:18:43 Ashley Kaschl: It’s probably obvious, but this section makes me think of the Beatitudes. Aristotle had a maxim that said, “As a person is, so does he see.” And I think that once we are granted the grace necessary to slowly make our hearts undivided in love, then too, do we become pure of heart, and our vices are chipped away to make room for virtue so that we might, at the end of our lives, see God face to face. “Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.”
 
01:19:37 Anthony: Reacted to "It’s probably obv..." with ❤️
 
01:19:48 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
 
01:20:09 angelo: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:20:18 Debra: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️
 
01:21:38 angelo: thank you
 
01:21:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:21:51 David: Thank you father!
 
01:21:52 Bonnie Lewis: good night Father.
 
01:21:56 Jeff O.: Thank you! God bless your pilgrimage Angela!
 
01:21:58 Rachel : Thank
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XL, Part I

We rarely think of the importance of stability; not only in our external environment, but the stability of thought and emotion. It is precisely this that is addressed in Hypothesis 40. One can easily be tempted, with good reason, for a multitude of reasons, to move to another place, where one can find greater tranquility and peace in the spiritual life. Yet, such thoughts are often the work of the evil one. Wherever we go, we take our selves with us, including our passions. 
And so, we receive multiple stories and examples of monks and saints who were put to the test in this regard.  We can allow ourselves with great ease to begin to daydream; to imagine a kind of life that will bring peace and happiness to us or that would be pleasing to God. The danger is that we often are motivated by our personal judgment and sensibilities or by the actions of the evil one. 
We must understand that in this world we know no peace, except for that which is found in Christ. While we are in this world, we are engaged in constant spiritual warfare and should expect nothing less. In fact, we were told that we must become like the cherubim - “all eyes.”  We must constantly watch for the subtle ways that the evil one seeks to draw us away from the path of obedience and humility.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:11:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 330 Letter E
 
00:54:48 Erick chastain: What hypothesis/ book are we on?
 
00:55:21 carol nypaver: P.334
 
00:55:26 Eric Ewanco: XL.A.2
 
00:55:59 Erick chastain: Reacted to "P.334" with 👍
 
00:56:28 carol nypaver: Please say book name again?
 
00:56:52 John Ingram: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Repentance-Purity-Pope-Shenouda/dp/0881415324?ref_=nav_ya_signin
 
00:56:59 Cindy Moran: Great idea.
 
00:57:55 Sean: Reacted to "Great idea. " with 👍
 
01:03:37 Sean: Along this line, I have friends who have considered converting to
Orthodoxy. Can you speak to pursuing holiness in our Church and not leaving in this context? Thank you, Father☦️
 
01:06:26 Erick chastain: Pope Francis said Sunday that evangelization doesn't get done by keyboard warriors
 
01:08:17 John Ingram: I think Our Lord told us that in these times, charity would grow cold - which is exactly what is happening with all these internal disputes in the Church.
 
01:17:31 Eric Ewanco: “One does not proclaim the Gospel standing still, locked in an office, at one’s desk or at one’s computer, arguing like ‘keyboard warriors’ and replacing the creativity of proclamation with copy-and-paste ideas taken from here and there. The Gospel is proclaimed by moving, by walking, by going.” — Pope Francis, General Audience, Wednesday, 12 April 2023
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: 🙏
 
01:27:58 sue and mark: God Bless everyone.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent- Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part III

How striking it is to hear the nature of the struggle with gluttony and the need for fasting spoken of with such zeal and clarity! Such practices have for the most part fallen by the wayside or have been minimized to such an extent as to be equally nonexistent. The unfortunate fruit of this is that we often have never tasted the freedom and the strength comes through ordering our appetite for food. Thus, the humbling of the mind and the body and the deepening of the experience of prayer through the stilling of the thoughts is also rarely experienced. 
We need to take hold of the wisdom of the fathers and their zeal that will allow us to put it into practice.  St. John tells us that when God sees the movement of the mind abs the heart towards Him through these practices that He will aid us with His grace. 
We also see that the fathers have a very clear sense of the workings of the human mind and how we experience our bodily appetites. Their observations of what takes place on a physiological level are astute and reveal the depth of their experience. All of it is meant to fashion within our hearts a renewed desire for the ascetic life. 
We must see that which is uniquely an distinctively Christian about these practices. For while St. John and the other fathers speak of them so frequently, they also understand that their beginning and end is found in one’s relationship with God. The desire for God’s love must compel us. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136. paragraph 17
 
00:11:08 FrDavid Abernethy: page 136 paragraph 17
 
00:17:21 Bridget McGinley: Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things- Philippians 3:19
 
00:23:45 Emma C: I have a question!
 
00:24:02 Emma C: I was wondering can fasting help with other attachments to the world like shopping?
 
00:24:10 Brett Pavia, BCMA: I have a question …
 
00:24:15 Emma C: Excessive shopping*
 
00:36:18 Rachel : That's a fantastic idea.
 
00:36:40 Anthony: The back of the Publican's Prayer Book has a guide to ease into fasting, written by Patriarch Gregorios III.
Also, Italian food is a LOT of peasant food (cucina povera).
 
00:41:40 Rachel : You have good friends. In Cali, you can find something at a steakhouse though.
 
00:42:12 Rachel : "Crab feed"
 
00:42:19 Anthony: This one does.  Fish is usually penance.  So is soup. ;)
 
00:42:21 Ambrose Little, OP: I dunno. Ours is plain, and I don’t like fish. 😄 😄
 
00:42:27 Ren Witter: Reacted to "I dunno. Ours is pla..." with 😄
 
00:42:44 Ren Witter: Yea, I’ve smelled some fish fries that seem pretty penitential
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: Ora et labora?
 
01:01:31 Anthony: Prayer is serious. It takes work.  A person can stay up and watch entertainment, but it isn't work - but stay up too late and you feel horrible.  Maybe it's a counterfeit to work to make the work of a vigil distasteful.
 
01:06:06 Anthony: Same here, Brett
 
01:08:01 David: A priest suggested finding a rock or something to hold in one hand during prayer. I have a rock from a Jesuit retreat house and it helps get my mind focused. It becomes a habit when held my mind goes to God.
 
01:15:31 Debra: Reacted to "Yea, I’ve smelled so..." with 😆
 
01:15:51 Mitch: On our commitment to Christ I’ve often felt like I have spiritual amnesia. I feel at home when in the spiritual work and then I go out into the world with its suffering again and forget my true home. I feel like my task each day is to remember the truth
 
01:19:33 Sean: Met. Kallistos of blessed memory said that unceasing prayer is not something that we say from time to time, but rather something that we are, all of the time (even during sleep)☦️
 
01:20:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Met. Kallistos of bl..." with 👍
 
01:22:29 Mitch: Thank you very much Happy Easter/Pascha to everyone!
 
01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you!🙂 Happy Easter everyone
 
01:22:34 Sean: Thank you, Father
 
01:22:36 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Easter
 
01:22:36 angelo: thank you
 
01:22:37 Rachel : Thank you!
 
01:22:43 David: Thank you!
 
01:22:43 Deiren: Happy Easter
 

Behold His Face: They Shall Look On Him Whom They Have Pierced

As a special reflection for this Holy Week, we chose a reading from Fr., Thomas Acklin‘s book “The Passion of the Lamb.”  In particular we reflected on the chapter entitled “Behold His Face.” As one participant in tonight‘s group stated: “This reflection is a gem!”  I agree. It is a rarest of gems and I’m grateful to Fr. Tom for writing it and the entire book. While small, it has had an incalculable effect upon me and I hope for all who listen to this podcast. 
What Fr. Tom seeks to do is to open our minds and our hearts to the truth revealed in the Passion of Christ. So often we approach this mystery bound by the limits of our reason and our sin. Fr. Tom challenges us to allow ourselves to be guided and drawn into the mystery by faith; to comprehend what God has revealed to us and what is beyond the measure of man’s mind. 
Many Christians throughout the centuries have struggled with the mystery of the Cross and the reality of our Lord’s suffering. Theologically, the human mind, almost in a form of resistance, intellectually and spiritually, tries to hold on to the notion of God being impassible. We are comfortable with notions of God being all powerful and all knowing. What we have trouble understanding and what we are often unwilling to embrace is the reality of a God who is Omni-kenotic and Omni-vulnerable. What Fr. Tom wants us to reflect upon is a God in whom we see and attribute not human deficiencies and sinfulness, hatred, ignorance, or illness. Rather, he wants us to contemplate and attribute to God in an infinite and perfect way the good qualities that we have in a finite and even deficient way. Thus, Fr. Tom says, rather than being impassible, incapable of feeling or having passion as we do as human beings, it would be more accurate to say that not only Christ but all three persons of the Trinity are infinitely caring, infinitely affected by us; Omni-passible. To believe such a thing is to understand that “at the height of his agony, he could see, not only the people who stood before him, jeering or weeping, but all the people of all time. He saw us in our loving and in our refusing to love, our sinning and our repenting. At the same eternal moment, he took on all the moments of every life and death. He could be the infinite love of God in person to each human being who ever lived, and who will ever live.” 
May God bless us this Holy Week with the gift of faith to see this love, this perfect vulnerability, even in the smallest measure.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:42 FrDavid Abernethy: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/679d1720-7a17-e9b4-7355-2bd4ae5431fd/Behold_His_Face_Booklet.pdf
 
00:14:52 Cath Lamb: I don't have microphone or camera 😊
 
00:18:31 Rebecca Thérèse: England
 
00:18:36 CathyQ: Canadian too!
 
00:18:41 Kristen's I Phone: Alberta Canada!
 
00:18:59 Michael: Pittsburgh!
 
00:19:07 michele: Buffalo ny
 
00:19:09 Cath Lamb: Colorado USA
 
00:19:10 kevin: BOSTON
 
00:19:16 James Moran: Appleton WI
 
00:39:47 Michael: Shroud of Turin video
https://www.youtube.com/live/HAbuG-oVq1Q?feature=share
 
00:43:25 CathyQ: Reacted to "Shroud of Turin vide..." with ❤️
 
01:44:49 Sean: Hi Father, I think (from what I have seen) that a problem might be people seeing heaven in the future rather than deification as a reality we can begin to participate in here and now. ☦️
 
01:44:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:45:53 Kristen's I Phone: Reacted to "Shroud of Turin vide…" with ❤️
 
01:47:30 sheri: Thank you.  Good night.
 
01:47:40 Patricia: Thank You!
 
01:47:46 Michael: Thank you Fr
 
01:48:04 Kristen's I Phone: Thank you!
 
01:48:12 michele: Thank you
 
01:48:53 kevin: beautiful talk excellent ,  thank you for sharing Father
 
01:49:08 David Fraley: Thank you, Father David.
 
01:49:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Fr. Tom needs our +prayers.. He's sick.
 
01:49:28 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Long term problem
 
01:49:34 Patricia: Do you know Fr. Justin?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part II

We continued to our reflection on step number 14 - gluttony, or that “clamorous mistress, the stomach.”  We are being exposed to the wisdom of the fathers, so deeply rooted in their experience of human nature and how it has been effected by sin. St. John, in his typical fashion, reveals to us the subtleties (psychological, emotional and spiritual) of how we are deceived by the evil one and how our bodily appetites can be used against us. It is precisely because our appetite for food is natural and needed for sustenance that it is something that can be used against us and so powerfully. 
This step shows how St. John and the other fathers were not only spiritual warriors, but the first depth psychologists. They knew how the mind and the heart work. We are easily deceived and easily moved to rationalize our use of food. Perhaps what is most significant is that St. John shows us how essential this practice of fasting and abstinence is in our spiritual life. We can’t be dabblers or minimalists. Because it is such a part of who we are, our appetite for food must be formed and shaped both by discipline and by the grace of God. What and how we eat is often a reflection of our emotional state a response to a need and desire for consolation. Rather than nourishing ourselves upon the love of God, we will choose some thing that offers immediate satisfaction - even though we know it is ever so temporary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:56 Anthony: Months ago we talked about the monk who cut off his genitals, to great spiritual and physical harm.  Fasting is a healthy way of cutting off an appetite; it cannot be complete, since that is absolutely repulsive to natural law.  It encourages both cutting something off and moderation in approach.  Maybe that is a reason why fasting is a help for both gluttony and lust.
 
00:24:00 Anthony: In addition, fasting is accessible to both men and women - a remedy for all.
 
00:25:03 angelo: Reacted to "Months ago we talked..." with 👍
 
00:28:20 sue and mark: am I correct in thinking that this can be modified for special health needs effected by diet.
 
00:28:40 Sean: I recently watched a good lecture on Evagrius, “Evagrius the Monk and the Care of Souls” by Dr. Robin Darling Young at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary: https://youtu.be/Lp-EpQB_A6U
I didn’t know that he was condemned along with Origen. I have only heard good things. Thank you, Father.
 
00:38:41 David: Aren't a lot of perceived contradictions looking at absolutes rather than stages and a process. As a child uses training wheels, then has someone behind him, then only a flat road. Over the period of time and conquering basic steps bigger challenges can be adopted.
 
00:41:00 sue and mark: Reacted to "Aren't a lot of perc..." with 👍
 
00:46:47 Anthony: So, Mardi Gras can actully harm the spiritual goal of Lent, but Meatfare then cheesefare is to enhance the Lent
 
00:47:52 Jean-Baptiste Giroux: There are many people these days practicing prolong fasting up to 72 hrs. Should that be  encouraged?
 
00:48:11 Patrick Caruso: Fr. David, could you please speak to how one should incorporate fasting and/or restraint on Sundays, solemnities, etc? With the approaching Easter season, how is one to best continue forward with some of the fasting they may have been practicing during Lent in the Easter season?
 
00:49:31 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There are many peopl…" with 👍
 
00:49:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. David, could you…" with 👍
 
00:53:48 David: In the early church wasn't Wed and Friday all year what Christians were know for in fasting?
 
01:05:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "In the early church ..." with 👍
 
01:05:35 Brad Smith: If the “warrior-ascetic” is distinct from the “perfect ascetic,” is Climacus implicitly warning the warrior to be careful not to delight to the point of succumbing to pride in there heat of battle when successful?
 
01:14:54 carol: “You are she who is not, I AM He Who Is.” to St.Catherine of Siena
 
01:18:16 David: Fear of the consequences of our sins? And acknowledging he is also All Just, a Judge? Ideally fear of disappointing God through love is best but sometimes fear of consequence can be good at times.
 
01:21:22 Anthony: Wisdom Chapter 12 - God tries to correct people by degrees.
 
01:23:22 carol nypaver: Well said, Father!
 
01:23:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:24:10 Krissy: Thanks!
 
01:24:49 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:24:53 David: Thanks you and bless you Father!
 
01:24:55 angelo: thank you
 
01:24:55 sue and mark: good night an dGod bless you father.
 
01:24:58 Brad Smith: Thank you
 
01:24:59 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIX, Part I

Tonight, our 100th Episode of the study of the The Evergetinos, we began reading Hypothesis 39.  The subject matter is manifold. We are not to trust or be overly confident in ourselves, our own judgment or our spiritual strength. Rather, we are to trust first and foremost in the grace of God and also the intercession of our spiritual father. Every good that we accomplish takes place because of God’s mercy; this includes the prayers, and the intercession of one’s elder. 
We are presented with a multitude of stories of individuals who were protected, strengthened, or guided by the prayers of their spiritual fathers. However, we are not to see this as  magic; nor are we to see it as something that would protect us from hardship, or the crosses we may be called to carry. Rather what is emphasized for us is the radical solidarity that exists among us as men and women of faith. We do not travel the road through this world in isolation. Rather, we are under the care of others or we are responsible for on another’s well-being. 
As so many times before, such stories emphasize for us the need for humility. We have to let go of the illusion of power. In fact, we cannot present the gospel from a standpoint of power, at least not as it is seen and understood in the world. The love that we bear witness to is obedient and self-emptying. The truth and the wisdom that we speak is that of the kingdom. Are these the realities the guide us in our life?  Are our sensibilities any different from those who do not have faith?
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 322
 
00:10:23 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis XXXIX
 
00:29:03 Rachel : This happens when we in our ascetic efforts in union with Christ, try to divest ourselves of self and the world.
 
00:31:11 Anthony: I just finished reading St. Bonaventure's life of St. Francis.  It made the real power of intercession more real to me. St. Francis and his friars are very much in the mold of these older Fathers.  It shows me the real catholicity of the Faith.
 
00:40:16 carol nypaver: What would you recommend for a young man who feels drawn to the priesthood in this day/age?
 
00:48:57 David Fraley: Reacted to "What would you recom…" with 👍
 
01:09:04 Anthony: Modern practical question: Does this speak to Concealed Carry of Firearms, especially now when brigandage is more common than in past decades?
 
01:14:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Be inspired by the circumcellions! ;)
 
01:15:55 Paul Fifer: “He said to them, “But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.”  Luke 22:27
 
01:17:07 Rodrigo Castillo: Ambrose:  Donatists in North Africa in St. Augustine’s time.
 
01:20:52 Paul Fifer: The verse before that… “He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?” “No, nothing,” they replied.”
 
01:22:13 Ambrose Little, OP: NAB commentary at end of that passage: “It is enough!: the farewell discourse ends abruptly with these words of Jesus spoken to the disciples when they take literally what was intended as figurative language about being prepared to face the world’s hostility.”
 
01:26:07 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture Three: Interiorized Monasticism Part III: Chastity and Obedience

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part I

Tonight we picked up with Step, 14 on “that clamorous mistress, the stomach“. Climacus begins to draw us into a discussion of one of the most important and neglected spiritual practices - fasting and the struggle with gluttony. 
This is a struggle, Saint John tells us, that remains with us through our entire life. Our desire for food or our misuse of food is something that is part of the very fabric of our life. It is a bodily appetite. Not unlike other appetites, it must be ordered toward the good or in the way that is in accord with the wisdom of God. 
Yet, John tells us, gluttony is hypocrisy of the stomach. In a sense it deceives us. Even when we are filled, it tells us that we are empty, and even when we are bursting, it “cries out that it is hungry.“.  It also leads us to devise seasonings, and sweet and rich dishes. The moment that we think that we have control of it, it shows itself in another area of our life. Unchecked, it leads to something even more serious - fornication. If we do not order this basic appetite for food, then we are going to be disordered and the use of our other bodily appetites, including our sexual appetite. And so, St. John tells us that he who coddles the body makes it wilder.  If we do not control it, then it will overcome us. 
If we are self-aware, we know we eat for many different reasons. On an emotional level, we often eat to console ourselves or because we are feeling aggressive or anxiety. We distract ourselves and deal with feelings of emptiness by filling our bodies with food. There are many ways that we convince ourselves that restraining ourselves is inappropriate. For example, we tell ourselves that hospitality demands that we break our fasting practices. Rather than being honest with ourselves and others, we freely let go of these disciplines, not out of love for others but to satisfy our baser needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Bonnie Lewis: I agree wholeheartedly!
 
00:15:46 Bonnie Lewis: Let's do it.
 
00:16:35 CMoran: Was it Rod Dreher?
 
00:36:57 Anthony: On Fasting, I recall sayings from people like St. Paisios to the effect that we live like pagans since we neglect prayer and fasting.  I wonder if there is an inverse correlation between a failure to fast and pray and the increased use of unwholesome images.
 
00:38:05 Jeff O.: Is there a reason or importance in the way Climacus orders anger and acedia before gluttony/fornication/greed etc on the ladder? I just find it interesting the order of things and the way he presents the vices
 
00:42:30 David Swiderski: What is the best practice in fasting. I fasted with a Syrian roommate a couple years he for Ramadan me for Lent. The hardest was no water all day which could be dangerous. What was strange most Muslims gain weight and have huge feasts every night and before the sunrose would drink juices to excess.
 
00:53:24 Anthony: I was talking about Easter Grain pie within the last 90 minutes....
 
00:56:49 Eric Ewanco: If we go over to someone's house during a fasting/abstinence period, how should we handle this if they plan food that breaks the discipline?
 
00:57:07 angelo: Reacted to "If we go over to som..." with 👍
 
00:58:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Well, our Lord did tell us to not appear to be fasting. 🙂
 
00:58:37 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Well, our Lord did t..." with 👏🏻
 
01:01:08 Ambrose Little, OP: “When you give, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” There does seem to be an impetus to “hide” our discipline and good works, to avoid pride.
 
01:01:14 Bonnie Lewis: excellent Father
 
01:01:17 Brad Smith: Your reference to hospitality as an excuse for gluttony seems the height of fornication (paragraph 1) as it is essentially to use the other person as a means to our own ends; gluttony is to misuse God’s good creation for our self-centered ends. Yes?
 
01:02:07 Brad Smith: I meant paragraph 5…Brad
 
01:02:07 Ambrose Little, OP: So we can’t win. LOL
 
01:04:37 CMoran: A few of my casual Catholic friends think that no meat on Friday has been done away with after the reforms.
 
01:05:43 CMoran: Not even knowing that some other penance is required.
 
01:08:28 Helena Babington Guiles: He who is in us is greater than he who is  in the world…and when we commune with Him within, His  nourishment exceeds any other.
 
01:10:49 Ren Witter: I am going to someone’s house for dinner tomorrow, and they already know I am vegetarian so I was going to just go and eat what was there, but I literally just texted them to say I can’t have eggs or cheese 😄. It makes me feel strangely anxious 🤣 I also told them to blame Father David 😄
 
01:11:09 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "I am going to someon..." with 😂
 
01:11:20 angelo: can we replace fasting with good works? This was my experience years ago when I was aspirant in a religious community.
 
01:14:07 Eric Ewanco: You can't "beat your body and make it your slave" (St. Paul) by doing good works
 
01:14:13 carol nypaver: We should not make others “suffer” because of our sacrifices. Right?
 
01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I thought that the recommendation for a fast day was two small meals OR one large one, is that what you meant?
 
01:16:18 Debra: I gave up coffee on Lent...and my family suffered lol
 
01:17:16 Eric Ewanco: @rebecca the requirement is one meal, and up to two smaller meals not adding up to another meal as needed to maintain your strength
 
01:17:18 Ren Witter: Replying to "I thought that the r..."
 
In the Latin Rite the official rule is “one large meal, and two small meals that do not together equal one large meal” and yes, its pretty lame :-D
 
01:17:25 Ren Witter: Reacted to "@rebecca the require..." with 👍
 
01:17:49 carol nypaver: When I have to prepare a meal for someone who is “wheat-free,” meat-free, dairy-free makes me not want to host them.  They don’t have allergies, just sacrificing these things.  That makes me “suffer."
 
01:17:58 Bonnie Lewis: No, don't Father.  Amen
 
01:18:25 Rebecca Thérèse: @Ren thanks
 
01:20:05 Ambrose Little, OP: Here’s the USCCB on the topic: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence  
 
The focus seems to be about internalizing and owning our asceticism (as Christian adults) rather than having it spoon fed to us in a one-size-fits-all approach. But the important part of the message seems to have been lost on many.
 
01:21:05 Eric Ewanco: "many" is an understatement
 
01:21:30 Bonnie Lewis: I never hear this spoken on from the pulpit.
 
01:22:17 Ren Witter: Replying to "When I have to prepa..."
 
Its actually a pretty reasonable thought - “don’t host them” when I think about it. If I had friends, and they were strictly kosher for instance, it would be basically impossible for me to host them because I don’t know how to cook that way. At that point, its better if we go to a kosher restaurant, or if I simply go to their home and play with the kids while they cook.
 
01:22:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:26 CMoran: Thank you Father...excellent session...most
necessary for me!
 
01:23:35 angelo: Thank you
 
01:23:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Debra: Thank you Father! This was really good!
 
01:23:47 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:25:02 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVIII

As we move more deeply into the first volume of the Evergetinos - reading hypothesis 38 - we find ourselves also being drawn more deeply into the mystery of humility and obedience. The wisdom of God, revealed in our Lord through his incarnation and through the Paschal mystery, shows us the vulnerability of divine love and humility. For the love of us Christ empties himself, becomes a slave and obedient unto death on the cross. It is upon him that we must fix our gaze if we are not to be drawn into the illusions of pride. 
Religious people are not above having their own delusions; including and especially the delusion of holiness. We hold on to the demands of our ego. Pride rules our will.  Thus, we were given multiple stories this evening of God in his providence guiding souls along a path He desires and presenting them with circumstances that unexpectedly revealed to them these greater truths. There is so much of us that is prideful that we are often blind to the humble ways that God comes to us and reject those through whom He speaks to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 314 letter C
 
00:23:57 Anthony: Is this the concept of "doing Purgatory" now so you don't have to go to Purgatory later?
 
00:39:57 Anthony: On preaching the gospel, among "Evangelicals," there is an emphasis of calling someone to recognize their sin and "accept Christ."  That doesn't seem to be the Catholic tradition, is it?  In the Bible it seems only prophets did that and we are not prophets.
 
00:47:24 Eric Ewanco: think you missed a paragraph?
 
01:13:16 Anthony: This so goes against modern education.  The intellect is separated from morals and we are taught to set ourselves up as judges
 
01:17:04 Anthony: "you have many teachers but not many fathers"
 

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture Two: Interiorized Monasticism Part II: Fundamental Principles

INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM PART II FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS
• Prayer• Eschatological Maximalism• Evangelical Counsels as Seen through Three Temptations of Christ in the Desert:
1. Poverty
Next Week:
Chastity: the Sacredness of Creation and the Virginity of Heart that Should Belong to All
Obedience to God: Receptivity to the Spirit of Truth and the Creative Freedom of the Life of Grace.

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIII: On Despondency

How do we talk about and understand despondency? I never heard about the word or the nature of the vice until I was in my 20s and after having read the fathers. And yet we hear from the fathers that it is the greatest and gravest of the eight capital vices. It afflicts the soul in such a way that it draws it into darkness. The soul loses its capacity to see the presence of God or to love the things of God. It becomes most dangerous when we are engaged in the spiritual life in isolation; either as those who live the life of a hermit, or as those who see the spiritual life as a private affair.  We live in a radical solidarity with each other, and with God. Our understanding of this, and our embrace of that reality may be the one thing that keeps us from falling into a general death. 
This demon uses the most subtle forms of temptation to make us lax in our spiritual practice or come to despise it all together. There are very few remedies for it for this reason. One must remember death and the brevity of our life. We must understand that we are in the end times and see the urgency of the moment. We must also cling to obedience; placing our thoughts before another and allow them to guide us when we cannot see the path before us. 
Prayer filled with hope, St. John tells us, is the only thing that brings this vice to utter death. Only when we cling to He who is life and love and hope and let go of the illusion that we can simply endure the spiritual trials of this world on our own will this vice be conquered. But once it is conquered, a person has come to experience all that is good; they are prepared for every spiritual battle that lies ahead.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:17 David: Question on translation: Acedia wouldn't this be closer to insouciant or melancholy rather than despondency?
 
00:35:37 Daniel Allen: Despondency is a child of talkativeness but community life is opposed to it? That seems sort of contradictory.
 
00:37:21 Anthony: The spirit of despondency also perverts a concept of what it means to be "elect": I am the only true one, everyone is against me."  That's not a good place to be.
 
00:37:51 Daniel Allen: As a follow up it seems that despondency is always a lurking threat.
 
00:38:32 Daniel Allen: Ok that clears it up thank you
 
00:41:21 Cindy Moran: Noonday Devil from Ps 90:6 [DRV]
 
00:43:22 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Also, many monks would not eat before 3 pm so beginning around midday hunger and hungers may start.
 
00:46:55 Anthony: The dinner bell represents hope that suffering will end.
 
00:59:02 Kathy: What do you mean by deification?
 
01:00:26 Eric Ewanco: Deification is become by grace what Christ was by nature -- becoming God-like, sharing in the divinity of Christ as he shared in our humanity, being partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4)
 
01:01:26 Anthony: A great Roman Catholic imagery / interpretation of deification is in Dante's "Paradiso," especially the later cantos.
 
01:02:14 Kathy: Thanks
 
01:06:45 Daniel Allen: St Therese - “May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be.”
 
01:06:59 Kristen Brotemarkle: beautiful quote, thanks for sharing that. ^
 
01:09:55 Liz: Sorry, what´s the name of the author Father is talking
about?
 
01:10:26 Anthony: Paul Evdekimov
 
01:10:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Paul Evdokimov
 
01:10:35 Liz: Thank you!!!
 
01:18:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Gender equality. Very modern.
 
01:20:56 Jeff O.: It seems like despondency (and gluttony as well) have a tendency or propensity to draw us towards numbing…which, paired with the nature of our culture which attempts to provide numbing or comforting in all things seems like an almost double whammy of sorts…
 
01:21:34 Anthony: Reacted to "It seems like desp..." with 👍
 
01:24:21 Kristen Brotemarkle: Reacted to "It seems like despon..." with 👍
 
01:37:38 Art: Got me too!
 
01:38:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:38:53 Rodrigo Castillo: That is a great idea!  The forum!
 
01:39:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...rich teaching tonight.
 
01:39:57 Jeff O.: This was great! Thank you.
 
01:40:07 David: Thank you father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVII

How does one approach something such as grumbling and murmuring against others, or complaining about what our judgment and sensibilities react to negatively in our lives? How is it that we suspend that judgment? Beyond this, how is it that we let it go all together and allow ourselves to be drawn along in the darkness of faith; where God alone illuminates the path before us to draw us into the truth and the love of the kingdom? 
 
The short answer to all of these questions is: through experience. Only God can reveal to the human heart that has the faith, perhaps only the size of a mustard seed, the depths of His mind and His truth. The greatest miracle, if you will, is to move the mountain of our ego and self-esteem. Our passions make it so difficult to keep our focus solely upon God, upon his love, and upon the truth that is being revealed to us. 
 
These stories are not about disciples being slavishly obedient to their masters no matter what the circumstances. In fact, the stories given to us tonight were how novices and disciples, who were pure of heart, were able to see the truth with clarity and bring about the conversion of their Elders who had lost their way. The stories are presented to us in order that we would not be tempted into condescension. We must understand that God can reprove us and correct us in the most unexpected of ways. What these hypotheses (36 & 37) reveal to us is the preeminence of humility and love. Age, experience or depth of discipline are no guarantee that we will see the truth or embrace it. May God have mercy and illuminate our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 309
 
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: On Grumbling :-)
 
00:33:19 Eric Ewanco: In terms of grumbling, I was listening today to a podcast on joy and the speaker pointed out that the early Christians did not even complain about Nero (who took Christians, covered them with tar, and lit them to shed light on his parties), but kept their focus on God and their own faith, and cultivating joy in the midst of persecution. A good lesson for us today in the hostile environment we live in where Christians tend to get distracted by their grumbling over the circumstances.
 
00:48:21 Eric Ewanco: Doesn't this just contradict everything we've heard previously about the value and importance of unalloyed obedience?
 
01:16:26 Anthony: "Father David, Build My Church, which you can see is in ruins"?
 
01:19:56 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like the habit of humility teaches us to see more clearly. Humility as “true self knowledge,” but with that practice of patience with yourself and with others, not jumping to conclusions and avoiding rashly adopting opinions of others. You give yourself time and suppress the passions that can interfere with being open to seeing things as they really are. So that practice of humble obedience is at least in part what helps us to see more clearly when it might be right to not obey—or at least not obey in particulars in order to be obedient in a a deeper way, as with that disciple tonight.
 

Repentance

I have one word for tonight‘s group: Beautiful! Repentance “brings to us the power of the living God, revealing once again, the true Christ Jesus who dwells in us.” As with so many aspects of the faith, we have a tendency to compartmentalize not only the practice of virtue or of prayer but of our relationship with God as a whole. Yet our faith and our relationship with God should touch the very fabric of our beings and shape the essence of every relationship and every work that we engage in throughout the course of our lives. It should shape also our experience of death and our realization of our own mortality. Repentance is not an episodic reality but a continual effort, the continual straining of the heart - reaching out to God to experience his love and mercy. In this sense it is the most important of things.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:18 sue and mark: microphone is not working
 
00:08:33 Ren Witter: PDF Handout: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/34558acb-864f-f9f8-1546-e7decdc9605b/Repentance.pdf
 
00:34:44 charlesevers: What gets us (causes) trapped into thinking of past sins?
 
00:34:55 Irene Bridget Hutchinson: Fr, how would a scrupulous person go about being constantly repentant with peace of soul?
 
00:44:00 David: The past few years I have also focused on taking time in prayer and adoration to express gratitude and thanksgiving. Isn't it equality important to give thanks as to deepen repentance. No amount of regret changes the past, no amount of worry will change the future but any gratitude will change the present.
 
00:50:52 charlesevers: Very good. Thank you Father.  Excellent explanation.
 
00:55:37 charlesevers: St. Bonaventure wrote a colloquay
 
01:12:54 Rachel : Yes. Only true Beauty. Most,. I include myself, can tend to misuse t|
 
01:21:53 Missi White: That's a tough pill to swallow, especially in what has become such a narcissistic culture.  How I needed this conference, thank you!
 
01:24:26 Art: Helpful reminder for me at times: But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12-13)
 
01:25:21 Bonnie Lewis: I have found that when I pray for someone who is causing me to harbor a resentment toward them, I am the one who changes internally.  The other person may remain exactly how they were, yet I have received a peace of mind and thought toward them.  This doesn't happen overnight.  sometimes it takes some time.
 
01:36:29 Rachel : Who wrote the book? A continual effort. With no temptation or battle a soldier is not made stronger through resisting. St. Faustina, and  St Therese had clear experiences of people who tried their patience. They felt the irritation. Its not like the new lens that Father is speaking of will mean that somone will not need to actively practice patience but that the life of repentence, living constantly in the presence of God, in Truth, the person "drunk with compunction" just simply cannot not forgive when they see who they really are in Christ and the dignity of others as well. All mankind seen through the lens of love
 
01:37:12 Rachel : This book should be gone through very slowly.
 
01:41:33 Rachel : I think Ren mentioned that this past year in a group! I need to get that book.
 
01:44:13 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David.  This was beautiful.
 
01:44:15 David: Thank you Father!
 
01:44:27 charlesevers: Thank you Father.  This was wonderful
 
01:44:30 Lori Hatala: so very helpful.
 
01:44:31 Rachel : lol
 
01:44:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:44:32 Melissa Kummerow: Yes thank you! I like the occasional "bonus" groups :)
 
01:44:34 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:45:17 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:45:18 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:45:26 Cindy Moran: I hope Father's talj will be available for what I missed.
 
01:45:27 Rachel : Praying for you
 
01:45:31 Mary Jo: Thank you !!
 
01:45:31 Mitch: Very profound. Thankyou Father take care
 

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture One: Introduction to Interiorized Monasticism

INTRODUCTION TO INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM
Interiorized Monasticism and Ascetic Ideal:• Obscured: Out of reach to majority.• Revealed: Fundamental principle of life in Christ.
Eschatological Dimensions:
Obscured: Life cut off from the world or world cut off
from life of the kingdom.
Revealed: Incarnation and kingdom of God present;
Kingdom within through gift of the Spirit (active eschatology, touching every aspect of the world; living now in light of the End).
Beauty Saves the World:
Obscured: Culture as cult, autonomous from God and
guided by sensibilities of the age.
Revealed: Rediscovery of culture through the beauty
of holiness. Jesus is the Holy One - the most beautiful of the sons of men. He is the perfect icon, manifesting God unveiled.
The Monastic Ideal:
Obscured: Return to the ancient forms of monastic
ascesis.
Revealed: Internalized. The human psyche is renewed
from within.
Five Fundamental Elements of Interiorized Monasticism (Upcoming Lectures):
• Prayer• Eschatological Maximalism • Poverty• Chastity• Obedience

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XII: On Lying

Tonight we read Step number 12 on Lying. Surprisingly this has always been a challenging step to read and to read as a group. Immediately our minds begin to swirl with the costs of loving the Truth and understanding that Truth is a person. Our starting point in such discussions is often examples that are extreme; things or circumstances that people might face within this life where lying might be justified. St. John addresses this and much more within the step. However, one has to be willing to suspend judgment and allow St. John to guide us along a path that deepens our sensitivity in regards to the Truth as a whole. Our starting point must be Christ. We must begin to understand that lying is a sin against charity, and to lie when making a vow or an oath is a denial of God himself. St. John understands very well that the Evil One can use something as innocent and enjoyable as humor to justify and to legitimize lying.  Yet, John tells us that there are no small lies and once spoken they have an effect upon ourselves and others. They diminish the spirit of mourning; that is, compunction within the human heart. In doing so they distract us from the remembrance of God and the things of God. We must remember that God has given us a conscience, a means of knowing the truth with Him. This is what we must form through the gospel and through our participation in the life of Christ. We must also remember that the Evil One is the Father of Lies and will use a lie under the pretext of protecting others. In the face of this, St. John tells us, “when we are completely cleansed of lying, then we can resort to it, but only with fear and as occasion demands.” Only when the heart has been completely purified, where there is no love of falsehood and where there is the presence of great discernment, can such a decision be made. To love truth, St. John tells us, is the root of every good because it is to love Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:04 Anthony Rago: I've also been thinking that our bodies and societies are parables of truth; and we can be lying by engaging in bad lifestyles.
 
00:37:35 Anthony Rago: I can imagine a confessor becoming very exasperated if we treat all this as confessable sins; and it would be very wearing on all of us.
 
00:39:28 David Swiderski: Like many other things isn't discernment take a place here. Is this so people will think I am funny (pride), will this hurt someone, will it erode trust (the cost of lies) or lead to a habit?
 
00:39:39 Anthony Rago: That makes sense, thanks
 
00:40:57 Cindy Moran: Corrie ten Boom  lied to the Nazis when they asked if jews were in the house. This is ok?
 
00:44:09 Ren Witter: I feel like this is a really hard one. Intellectually, I actually feel like it is easy to understand. Emotionally, it kind of feels like one of those instances where being Christian can feel like a “kill-joy” to put it in a light way. Maybe the immense anxiety I feel in response to this is coming from the fear that being a Christian means no joy or every-day happiness. Its weird because I know that that isn’t true, but sometimes it can be hard to reconcile the lived experience of Christianity with the things the Fathers write.
 
00:46:34 Debra: Replying to "Corrie ten Boom  lie..."
 
I've read a priest's response to this, is Yes, it's ok; because the Nazis didn't have a right to what's going on in their home
That we have dignity, and a right to privacy
 
I'm interested to hear what Fr Abernethy says 😄
 
00:55:06 Anthony Rago: With humor - movies, comedy routines, Facebook - it is easy to go along, and then the story teller sneaks in covert of blatant evil things, and "bam," there they are in the head, coming to mind in an ambush when they are most unwelcome.
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Ok so this may be making a little more sense to me. If the concern is with Truth, and Truth is a person, then we can have a tendency to come between Truth and another person (between the other and his remembrance of Truth Himself), which sort of reminds me of two parts of the Gospel - better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause the fall of one of these little ones, and also, what God has joined let no man divide. Neither are traditionally applied to this type of thought, but if by our jesting, and always (or often) making light of things we can get between a person and his remembrance of God (or mourning), then in a way we are doing just that on a spiritual level, dividing the person from his remembrance of God. We can (generally unintentionally) get between God and another person, and generally to pump up our own ego. The lying part makes sense, it’s the joking that’s hard to get.
 
01:11:37 Jacqulyn: Proverbs 26:18-19 - Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death is one who deceives their neighbor and says, "I was only joking."
 
01:15:40 Debra: Cindy Moran, up above, asked about that very point
 
01:20:23 David Swiderski: The trap of whataboutism deflects from a general truth
 
01:23:09 Bonnie Lewis: So I will only be finally cleansed in Purgatory?
 
01:23:49 Debra: In vino veritas
 
01:24:08 Anthony Rago: Greek Text of this chapter is here: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BE/%CE%9B%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%99%CE%92
I can barely read Greek and can't now locate the word "torture."
 
01:25:16 Ambrose Little, OP: About being jovial, I have a fondness for this part of St. Thomas Aquinas’ prayer “for ordering a life wisely” (notably the last three lines):
 
O Lord my God, make me
          submissive without protest,
          poor without discouragement,
          chaste without regret,
          patient without complaint,
          humble without posturing,
          cheerful without frivolity,
          mature without gloom,
          and quick-witted without flippancy.
 
Being dour and scolding is not good, neither is flippancy and frivolity. Cheerfulness is a good thing within measure.
 
01:25:32 Anthony Rago: "agoneia"
 
01:25:49 Debra: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:25:50 Daniel Allen: I think one thing I take from this is that I often don’t consider the significance of my own words, and that words have greater significance than generally thought
 
01:26:08 carol nypaver: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:09 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "About being jovial, …" with 🔥
 
01:26:25 Cath Lamb: Reacted to "I think one thing I ..." with ❤️
 
01:27:19 Anthony Rago: Reacted to "About being jovial..." with ❤️
 
01:27:21 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father
 
01:27:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:27:42 Art: Thank you!
 
01:27:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Good to be with you all.
 
01:27:59 Bonnie Lewis: Prayers of course!
 
01:29:15 Bonnie Lewis: that's right because I received an email.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part II and Hypothesis XXXVI

In these hypotheses, we have been reflecting upon the practice of asceticism, especially in light of the relationship between an Elder and his disciple; that is, in relationship to obedience. We are shown in these stories the ABC’s of the ascetic life and in particular that of the virtue of obedience. 
 
What does it mean to let go of private judgment? What does it mean to set aside one’s will even in small things in our day-to-day life? How do we train the mind and the heart in this virtue; so that when we are asked to pick up our cross or when we are reduced to raw endurance and cannot see the road ahead of us, we are able to respond in love?  We are shown in the stories that one must begin small. It is in letting go of our sensitivities in the small things, and allowing love to trump everything that this virtue takes root. It means being more attentive to the “other”, to what is asked of us and what people need, than to holding on to what we want, or what seems right or convenient to us. 
 
There is part of us that shrinks back in a spirit of objection to what is being taught here. It seems unnatural to us. But what is really being asked of us or rather where we are being led to embrace is the supernatural. What we are being guided to is the perfect love and self emptying obedience that we see in Christ. We should have a similar desire to have obedience to God’s will as our very food.  We must see it as something that sustains and nourishes us mystically. 
 
Not fulfilling the will of God or choosing the path of sin should become something that is abhorrent to us. Such lessons can be learned only with humility. Beyond this, we are shown the incredible responsibility of those who are elders. Their actions, their requests and demands of their disciples must be rooted in the desire for their salvation, and for their good. They will be held accountable as shepherds.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:17 David Fraley: Hello Mrs Abernethy!
 
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 305
 
00:08:28 David Fraley: Hi Fr David!
 
00:08:35 FrDavid Abernethy: Hi Dave!!
 
00:14:32 Debra: Step 11...on talkativeness....was really convicting
 
00:14:51 FrDavid Abernethy: yes it was!!
 
00:15:10 Debra: Ooops...wrong meeting LOL
 
00:25:19 Rachel: Maybe he wanted to see if his disciple was stuoid.
 
00:25:37 Rachel: stupid. Sorry. I should not joke.
 
00:28:57 iPhone: Reacted to "Maybe he wanted to s…" with ❤️
 
00:29:19 Rachel: Yes, I doubt he was stupid nor did the elder think that.
 
00:30:07 Rachel: I wonder though, what would be all of our reactions to this reality in our everyday lives?
 
00:52:38 Anthony Rago: This has got to be specific to novices.  Saints (Elizabeth of Hungary?) are praised for charity against the wishes of the head of household
 
00:55:36 Anthony Rago: But if these people can't use discretion, they also can fall into legalism - oops I don't have permission, I can't act on my own.
 
00:58:32 Anthony Rago: The religious life then is horribly dangerous.
 
01:01:01 Anthony Rago: That indicates then that people cannot abandon their discretion, they have to withhold some obedience, so they can  judge the situation, whether it is healthy or crazy - or just not for them.
 
01:05:15 Anthony Rago: Yes, I've seen situations both of people in religious life and married life that were just psychologically off.
 
01:05:25 Ambrose Little, OP: He also says submit to each other.
 
01:08:30 Debra: I always suggest Chrysogonus
 
01:09:09 Debra: for a baby's name
He could just be called Chrys
 
01:18:36 Rachel: Thank you all, Thank you Father
 
01:19:08 Rachel: :) lol
 

To Love Fasting

Tonight we explored an often neglected aspect of the spiritual life; or one might better say an essential part of the spiritual life – Fasting. Throughout the spiritual tradition, we have heard the Saints tell us that “prayer without fasting is weak” or that “where there is no prayer and fasting there are demons.”
With the coming of Christ, however, we see a unique and distinctive meaning of fasting emerge. It is not only a discipline to help order the appetites or a form of penitence. It is tied directly to Christ: what we see in His practice and in what He teaches us about it.  His own fasting is guided by the Holy Spirit in preparation for embracing the Father’s will, and His desire that it might be accomplished. Beyond this, Christ teaches us that our practice of fasting is forever tied to our desire for Him. He is the Heavenly Bridegroom and each soul the Bride. We see and experience in Him the One alone who can satisfy the deepest desires of the human heart. He is the Bread of Life. 
The focus of our discussion this night was on recapturing not only the practice of fasting, but seeing it as something that is to be “loved”, precisely because it draws us to Christ. It is not a discipline but a path to draw nearer to the Beloved.  
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:01 Stephen McCane: I have doing this “Exodus 90” and it is like a warm up to Lent.
 
00:25:51 Stephen McCane: For women it is called “Fiat 90”.
 
00:45:48 Adam Paige: Hi Father, should laypeople share their Lenten fasting plans with their spiritual director in the same way Saint Benedict instructs his monks to do with their spiritual father in his rule ?
 
01:14:51 Victoria: here is the book pdf: https://ia902908.us.archive.org/6/items/tolovefasting/To%20Love%20Fasting.pdf
 
01:15:41 Victoria: Free on Internet Archive :)
 
01:16:14 Adam Paige: Original version in French: https://folleautonomie.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/adalbert-de-Vogue-Aimer-Le-Jeune.pdf
 
01:21:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "here is the book pdf…" with 👍
 
01:33:07 angelo: Reacted to "here is the book pdf..." with ❤️
 
01:33:20 angelo: Replying to "here is the book pdf..."
 
thank you
 
01:33:53 Matt Mondorff: I’ve found that our physical bodies don’t require much food, it’s mainly our mind and habits that convince us that we’re hungry. So to realize that and push through the initial hunger, knowing it’s coming but we’ll be ok has helped me a lot. Then, little by little it gets easier to go longer and longer. Eating healthy and moderately helps also…it seems to my anyway
 
01:47:52 Lori Hatala: you can saute in broth.
 
01:48:12 Fr. Michael Winn: A former monk of Mt. Athos once told me that in North America it would be inadvisable to stop all use of oil during the winter seasons - reduce, but do not eliminate.
 
01:57:15 Kathy: My experience of fasting is that it is a type of prayer in and of itself.
01:59:22 angelo: Thank you for that short clarification of the centering prayer and the danger of falling into delusion.
 
02:06:09 angelo: Thank you so much Fr.
 
02:06:29 Lori Hatala: thank you so much Father.
 
02:06:31 Stephen McCane: Thank you Father.
 
02:06:33 Ryan McMann: Thank you!
 
02:06:40 Monk Maximos: Thank you Father
 
02:07:18 kevin: thanks father that was great!!
 
02:07:21 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
02:07:22 Fr. Michael Winn: Thanks, Father!
 
02:07:25 Rachel Pineda: Thank you father Abernethy!!
 
02:07:31 Siggy Evers: Thank you Fr.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XI: On Talkativeness and Silence

Tonight, we read Step number 11 on “talkativeness and silence.”  Fittingly, it is very brief, if not the briefest of all of the steps of The Ladder. This brevity is St. John’s way of teaching us that so much of our speech involves vainglory; putting ourselves on display. We seek through it to step out of ourselves; betraying the painful experience we have as human beings of our lack of identity.  God has created us for himself. He has created us in his image and likeness precisely that we might not experience ourselves in isolation, but rather in communion. However, to enter into communion with God means to step out of our limited ways of perceiving the world around us and reality as a whole. This means allowing God, through the silence,to draw us in faith into the experience of His life, light and love.  To give ourselves over to talkativeness is to find ourselves dissipated. Our desire for God cools and the emptiness that we feel drives us to fill our lives with anything and everything so that we do not feel alone. Despite having God dwelling within us, once we lose sight of him, silence becomes an enemy. Therefore, John tells us that we must foster silence as a habit. We must allow God to show us its value, and what it makes possible for us. The first step is to create external silence. Once we have done this, we often see the unsettledness of our minds and hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:45 Cindy Moran: Is your patron saint Matthew?
 
00:15:18 John & Heather: Do you mind mentioning what edition this group uses?
 
00:15:54 Debra: I saw your post on FB about it
 
00:16:41 John & Heather: Replying to "Do you mind mentioni..."
 
Great...thank you.
 
00:16:43 Cindy Moran: I really liked Ren's presentation on the prayer rope
 
00:17:38 FrDavid Abernethy: Yes.  Excellent.  She makes the most exquisite prayer ropes as well.
 
00:17:51 FrDavid Abernethy: Maybe she will put up the website address.
 
00:27:32 Eric Ewanco: My translation says "foe of license" instead of "enemy of freedom of speech"
 
00:41:56 Bonnie Lewis: This is why adoration before the Blessed Sacrament is such a beautiful gift where silence is filled with God's love for us.
 
00:43:12 Vicki Nichols: Would this silence include silencing the "inner chatter" of your thoughts or is it only external silence?
 
00:53:28 Rebecca Thérèse: I've found that people who chatter continuously don't care if you're listening or not so I can zone out!
 
00:54:01 wayne: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂
 
00:55:21 iPhone: Amen
 
00:56:08 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I've found that peop..."
with 😂
 
00:58:48 iPhone: Totally
 
00:59:06 Ambrose Little, OP: My in-laws feel that way about visiting here—the kiddos are a constant background buzzing. 🙂 You can get acclimated..
 
00:59:19 Eric Ewanco: How do we in the world balance silence with the cultivation of valuable relationships in life, for example at work or whatever? In other words, how do we discern the threshold of silence to maintain -- there is the absolute silence of a monk, and the rambling of the garroulous, where do we draw the line?
 
01:00:17 Debra: I wear hearing aids, but only if I'm going somewhere were I HAVE to listen...like Mass, or meetings
As soon as I'm out of that meeting, I take out my aids, because the world is such a noisy place!!
 
01:00:54 Debra: Reacted to "My in-laws feel that..." with 😁
 
01:08:21 iPhone: + 1
 
01:12:20 Anthony Rago: Being someone who does work from home, and lives alone, the silence does not feel too great all the time.  Only the deep silence when in my workshop or working in my kitchen or dining room or times like that is satisfying.
 
01:12:49 Debra: So much ambient noise...Like you mentioned, noise does create anxiety
I can literally feel tension leave, when I take my hearing aids out.
 
01:13:18 Debra: Reacted to "Being someone who do..." with 🤗
 
01:16:40 iPhone: Making a note of it
 
01:16:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:48 Debra: Thanks be to God
 
Thank you! Good night!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part I

Obedience!  The root of the word is to hear or to listen. What emerges in reading the fathers is that our capacity to hear the word of God is rooted in our willingness to set aside our own willfulness, ego, and our private judgment. We often become obstinate and entrenched in our own view of things in such a way that we are no longer able to hear the advice or counsel of others. We are shown in this evening’s text that sometimes we must be left to our own devices to experience the poverty of our choices that are contrary to the will of God and His love. 
What also emerges is that obedience is not rooted in law but love. Obedience is the fruit of a deep relationship with God, and with one’s spiritual elder. An elder must love his disciple, and recognize that he bears responsibility for his salvation and so must give him constant care. The disciple must reciprocate this love and respect. In doing so, he enables the elder to be a true shepherd and not a mere hireling. This mutual obedience elevates the entire church and allows it to make present the humble love of Christ crucified to the world.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:49:18 Anthony Rago: I may have heard that sentiment too
 
00:49:29 Ambrose Little, OP: It’s probably saying that he’s true enough to Scripture and expansive in his guidance to cover such a loss. But it’s just a hypothetical.
 
00:50:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Hyperbole, like when Jesus says to cut off the hand that causes us to sin. Exaggeration to make a point about the quality of his teaching.
 
00:52:01 Anthony Rago: How may we properly revere persons not exactly in communion with Catholics?  I LOVE the works of St. Gregory of Narek - but if Pope Francis had not made him a Doctor of the Church, I would have forced myself to be cautious.  I'd love to go wholehearted into Coptic Orthodox spirituality / theology, but how cautious should we be?
 
01:00:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Echoes what St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the Apostle) says of the faithful’s relationship with their bishop.
 
01:12:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There is an amazing genius in the story-based instruction of the Evergetinos. It really makes ideas stick in a memorable way.
 
01:14:17 Anthony Rago: I'm open to it
 
01:14:19 David Fraley: I’d be interested.
 
01:14:21 carol nypaver: Sure!
 
01:14:29 Paul Fifer: Me too.
 
01:14:54 John & Heather: Would be interested.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part II

This evening we continued and completed Step number 10 on “slander and calumny.”  Something very special emerges about John in the writing of this step. We see something very personal about John’s capacity to love and his purity of heart. He acknowledges his own struggle with judging others as sinners, when in reality they were pure of heart in secret. Thus, John’s repeated counsel is not to judge at all; even when we see things with a kind of clarity. We often have blind spots and dark spots in our evaluation of the others. Beyond this, the Evil One puts before us smoke, if you will, making us think that there is sin present where none exist. 
All that we are allowed to do is to love others. This means that we always attribute their sin to the action of demons. We are to look for the good in others and look for ways that we can support and lift them up if they are struggling. This means setting aside the morbid delight that we take in judging and the feeling of emotional power that we think it gives us over and against them. We must acknowledge the radical solidarity that exist between us and foster a spirit of generosity towards each other. To seize for ourselves a prerogative that belongs only to God is ruinous to the soul. May God preserve us!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:23:24 Bridget McGinley: Father, sorry...little long....I just wanted to follow up from last week with a comment/question. I was not able to type this fast enough. It was in relation to what you were saying about being serious and stern in presenting the Faith. You mentioned about your early sermon and how it was perceived by the college kids. I used to be pretty sanguine. Life has taken it’s toll. I once heard Bishop Sheen say something that was pretty profound. He stated, “Christ had many emotions that were written about in the Bible but never did he smile or laugh.” Bishop Sheen stated that He is saving those for us in Heaven. Looking at Step 10 point 2 many people nowadays are pretty “shameless and very happy” and it is hard for me to find smiles and joy surrounded by the deluge. In tip-toeing around the obvious moral problems these days how does one escape mental slander which sometimes manifests as verbal slander? And how does one show a non-judgemental face?
 
00:37:37 iPhone: Anen Father
 
00:49:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Part of Leviticus 19 came into my mind in relation to not judging at all  15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
 
17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
 
00:57:02 Anthony Rago: Since the Late Middle Ages, our culture has been both immoral and curious.  We want the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summas, but we have not as eagerly gone to the other side of him, the one that made the Pange Lingua
 
00:57:39 Anthony Rago: We want knowledge for curiousity's sake, but not the humility of devotion
 
00:57:54 Ambrose Little, OP: Do you think the nature of social media has made this particular trap of the Devil more prevalent?
 
00:58:30 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: How great it would be to always be centered on noting the virtues it observes in others!
 
00:58:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Amen, Sister!
 
01:03:12 Bridget McGinley: As a nurse I can attest it is physically and mentally debilitating communicating. Many of my co workers talk about how they can't even talk after a shift. Verbal interaction is very challenging.
 
01:11:45 Ambrose Little, OP: About #12 and #15.. I recently learned of a few very vocal critics (including a former apologist) in the Church ending up leaving the Faith, either entirely or moving to a sect. It’s very sad. There is something in what St. John is saying they’re for sure—that this kind of behavior can be ruinous.
 
01:17:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:23 Ren Witter: Philokalia.link/tolovefasting
 
01:18:41 carol nypaver: Time??
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIV

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 34. Again we are introduced into the practice of asceticism; in particular, how it is embraced in the spirit of obedience. We were given multiple stories of individuals who, out of love for their elder, respond with an immediacy to their demand or request. In each case we are shown the deep fruit that this bears. 
However, the greater task for us is to look at our lives and to see if we have prepared our hearts to receive the seed of our Lord‘s word as he calls us to the life of holiness. Do we respond with swiftness when called to prayer or with zeal when called to embrace the practice of fasting or urgency when called respond to someone in need or jeopardy? 
What the stories show us is that obedience is based upon a relationship, not law. It is love that makes us run to respond to Christ and to those He has given to us to guide us along the path to Him. If our asceticism or obedience lacks this love, then it is something that is suspect.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:43 B David: hi all 
Ben David here.  sort of new here...
 
00:10:55 FrDavid Abernethy: welcome Ben!
 
00:12:24 David Fraley: Hello Ben!
 
00:12:59 David Fraley: I did. I found a place in West View.
 
00:21:09 Bridget McGinley: St Hesychios in the Philokalia states “ a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in Christ through obedience to His commandments.  Father, if one cannot find an “elder” can one be assured of the graces and gifts of obedience by simply following the commandments?
 
00:24:33 Bridget McGinley: thank you
 
00:33:13 Anthony Rago: This is in stark contrast with the pagans - example the fear in the Adventures of Ulysses, in the trip to Hades, land of the shades.
 
00:35:22 Anthony Rago: The Coptic Hymn to St George names him the conqueror of his tormentors
 
01:14:40 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part II and Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part I

The subtle movements of the human heart and mind stand revealed while reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent. As one makes one’s way through the text, it becomes clear that it is an inevitability. We must stand ready to have our hearts illuminated and the places that we desire to keep in darkness, whether consciously or unconsciously, exposed. Yet, somehow, when these words come from the pen of a Saint, there is a healing that one begins to experience; even as we know the sting of the words. Knowing and seeing the truth lightens the mind and the heart and opens us to experience the grace and the mercy of God. By removing the impediments to the action of that grace, we find ourselves no longer running with a heavy tread under the burden and the weight of some hidden guilt or wound, but freely and swiftly moving towards He who is Love. 
The jarring nature of John’s words is eventually overcome by the confidence in his desire, as well as God’s, to bring us healing. Such is the case with John’s description of the remembrance of wrongs. He makes it clear that without remedy, it can poison the heart and become dark spite. The more we nurture our anger, the more the heart becomes poisoned, and we eventually only see the faults of others.  To be free of this burden, he tells us, allows us to boldly ask our Savior for the release of our own sins. 
John would have us show no hesitancy and experience no doubt about what coming to God brings us. If we do not attend to this wound, what is born from it is slander. This, he tells us, drains the blood of love and becomes the patron of a heavy and unclean heart. In our anger, we may diminish another through our words, but the consequence that has for ourselves is far greater. It is a coarse disease that only Christ and gazing upon Christ crucified can heal.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:24 Anthony Rago: Tractor Supply, too
 
00:08:15 Anthony Rago: time for an exorcism of the air....
 
00:09:39 FrDavid Abernethy: page 126 para 13
 
00:12:43 Cindy Moran: Oooo...Yes!
 
00:22:53 Anthony Rago: Then this would apply also to wrongs WE have done, too, that filter our His healing?
 
00:27:03 sue and mark: I have found that if I am struggling in this area..that if I ask God to forgive them for me...  it is easier  also to bring me to that place of forgiveness that he desires
 
00:32:12 Anthony Rago: This is what I have a hard time understanding: sin, mortal and venial, which is emphasized so much in the admonishion if frequent confessions....so much emphasis on me, me, me.
 
00:35:42 Anthony Rago: How often is good?
 
00:39:56 Anthony Rago: Thank you
 
00:55:41 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm still puzzled as to the difference between spite and dark spite
 
00:57:43 Cindy Moran: Who is the author of the book you mentioned last week "Orthodox Psychotherapy"?
 
00:57:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe something like.. If you harbor it secretly in the “darkness” of your inner self. You don’t allow it to be brought into the Light, examined for what it is, and see that it is wrong and needs to be eliminated.
 
00:57:59 carol: Dark definition includes “angry, threatening, arising from evil, sinister”
 
00:58:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you all
 
01:01:16 Ambrose Little, OP: “Speaking the truth in love” is one of the most abused phrases.
 
01:03:23 Anthony Rago: Chastity covers up, it is modest.  Unchastity is an unholy exposure.
 
01:11:29 Rachel: LOL
 
01:11:49 Anthony Rago: I think you're right.  More St. Francis is needed, less "vert few will be saved."
 
01:13:08 Lee Graham: The river of life flowing out of us
 
01:14:37 Rachel: ouch
 
01:15:45 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:15:47 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:56 Devansh Shukla: Thank you
 
01:15:57 Rachel: YES!!
 
01:16:08 Bernadette Truta: Yes please!
 
01:16:09 Art: Thank you good night.  Yes I’m interested in the Zoom group on fasting.
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes
 
01:16:12 Deb Dayton: Is this in person?
 
01:16:13 sue and mark: yes
 
01:16:16 Jacqulyn: Yes... I am interested!
 
01:16:19 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: when?
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part IV

Reading the fathers deeply is unsettling. It strikes against every sensibility that we have and calls into question our perception of reality itself. In this sense, their writings are meant to illuminate the gospels for us and allow them to challenge us. So often we become lukewarm simply because things have become familiar and comfortable to us. We lose sight of the fact that in the face of Christ’s teaching individuals tore their garments and repeatedly wanted to put him to his death and eventually did accomplish this. 
What does reading the gospel or the fathers give rise to within our hearts and consciences? The stories about obedience in this hypothesis are startling; we can hardly imagine ourselves enduring such things for a moment, let alone seeing them as something that are a means to freeing us from self-will and from the ego. What is it that we love? What stirs our hearts to their greatest desire? What are we willing to die for? Is Christ our Beloved or merely the construction of our minds and imaginations to make us feel safe in this world?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:29 Paul Fifer: This paragraph sounds a lot like the Russian movie named “The Island”.
 
00:21:58 Anthony Rago: Reminds me of "Ostrov / Island" in which the foolish monk tends the coal furnace for 30 or so years
 
00:22:30 Charbel: A fantastic film, I get some folks together to watch it at the beginning of the Fast every year.
 
00:24:03 carol nypaver: Profound film!  I need to watch it again.
 
00:24:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Much like having small children. 🙂
 
00:25:52 Anthony Rago: Culturally, in Sicily, my family had livestock on the ground floor.  Same with Padre Pio's family.  Living quarters were upstairs.  Maybe the monk lived in a downstairs "barn" and the others lived on the floor(s) above.
 
00:27:54 Deb Dayton: Reacted to "Much like having sma..." with 😂
 
00:28:00 carol nypaver: Very interesting, Anthony.  Thank you for the insight.
 
00:39:16 Charbel: Apologies for ducking out. I'm taking an extra shift at the shelter and may have to step away from time to time as folks come into my office.
 
00:39:22 Joyce and Jim Walsh: Story of the Monk reminds me  of the indignities suffered by St. FAUSTINA as noted in her Diary.
 
00:51:40 Anthony Rago: But if we are in the image of God, I see a tension.  One the one hand, there is the parable of the unworthy servants doing only what is expected of you.  But on the other hand, you are made in the image of God, and I would thing, there is room for some sense of ego and satisfaction.  Not smugness, but joy and satisfaction.
 
00:53:52 iPhone: Amen Father
 
01:04:05 iPhone: Really Powerful Message.
 
01:13:14 Denise T. : This is probably really worldly of me, but if you allow someone to hurt you unjustly or lie about you or anything else that is deliberately inflicted by another without saying anything, will that be good for them. There seems a sense of justice is lost. Not saying anything. 
 
01:20:05 Denise T. : Thank  you, Father.
 
01:20:16 carol nypaver: Do those who inflict the “punishment” on us,  also become more saintly even if their intent is NOT that we become more patient, humble, etc.? Especially if they are not our “elders”? If we become holier for what we endure at their hands, do they also grow in holiness if we endure patiently?
 
01:21:27 Sharon: Thank you

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part I

There are certain moments while reading the fathers when one trembles. The truth expressed is so vivid and pierces so deeply that the experience of it is visceral. One is shaken.  This is not easy to endure, and perhaps there are moments when reading such texts becomes a stumbling block for our minds and our hearts. However, when they speak the truth of Christ and when they reveal the depth of love that we are called to in Him, ultimately these words are healing. The fathers, in so many ways, are spiritual physicians. Their words cut like a scalpel and cut deeply. But they cut out the “rot” as John describes it. The remembrance of wrongs, which is the offspring of anger, is not something that we can remove on our own. Untreated it spreads like a cancer. The fact, John tells us it has no offspring because it poisons the soul so completely that it makes us incapable of love. 
May God give us the grace to listen with humility and gratitude. We are given such loving fathers who desire nothing but our healing. When we begin to trust that, then their words become as bright and illuminating as the sun.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 125 Step number 9
 
00:20:29 Anthony: Another kind of remembering wrongs is to trod the path of bad example someone has set...examples, hearing cursing, and then carrying on that "tradition" instead of cutting it off; or doing violence because someone else did violence to you (a chain of abuse).
 
00:22:58 Eric Ewanco: My translation titles this section "On Malice" (with a translation note that also offers "remembrance of wrongs). Your translation refers to "hourly malice" (mine says "rancor by the hour"). Can you elaborate on the relationship between malice and remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:24:12 Ashley Kaschl: Could a victim mentality be tied to the “pleasureless feeling cherished in the sweetness of bitterness” part?
 
00:24:26 Bonnie Lewis: So I shouldn't be troubled that I can relate so deeply to this step?
 
00:27:16 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen Father
 
00:28:30 Anthony: Healing.  In Divine Comedy, Dante is washed in a river of forgetfulness when passing from Purgatory to Heaven, so he can forget all memory of sin.
 
00:31:35 iPhone: +1
 
00:48:05 iPhone: Love these Sessions Father !
 
00:48:53 Daniel Allen: The internet, for a million different reasons, is dangerous… not reading the fathers.
 
00:50:52 carol: How does one speak freely in the context of therapy or spiritual direction while also avoiding the remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:55:37 Charbel & Justin: Demons are fundamentally chaotic.
 
01:05:47 Anthony: Remember that the demons make suckers and schlubs out of all of us.  It makes it easier to have compassion on another.
 
01:07:09 iPhone: Amen
 
01:08:37 Bonnie Lewis: true
 
01:08:47 iPhone: Love that
 
01:10:37 iPhone: Much work to do in this regard.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: This entire section reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross: “Whenever anything disagreeable happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent.”
 
01:12:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:12:26 Bonnie Lewis: This step is excellent Father.  Much to ponder.
 
01:12:43 Debra: Reacted to "This entire section ..." with ❤️
 
01:12:44 iPhone: Amen Father.  Tremendous !
 
01:13:39 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you Father. Great to be with you all.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part III

The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6
 
00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession?  Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition?
 
00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12.
 
00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ?
 
00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm
 
01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful
 
01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired?
 
01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄
 
01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints.  We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young.
 
01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues.
 
01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part III

As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17
 
00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David!
 
00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17
 
00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
 
01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you
 
01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father!
 
01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :(
 
01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you
 
01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part II

What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding
 
00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God>
 
00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in.
 
00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others?  Any room in the Fathers for this?  Or is that called something else in their terminology?
 
00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering
 
01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself
 
01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue?
 
01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need).
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part II

What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.”  It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us. 
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ. 
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs
 
00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds
 
00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too
 
00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity?
 
00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs.
 
00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day.
 
00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. 
 
But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍
 
00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation.
 
00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this.
 
00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it).
 
01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience?
 
01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VII and Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part I

Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness. 
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin. 
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.”  The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66
 
00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page?
 
00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120
 
00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean!
 
00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God
 
00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻
 
00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼
 
01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, 
 
“Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.”
 
01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?”
 
01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley.  Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen!
 
01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...?  Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure?  Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions
 
01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father
 
01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:05 Art: Thank you father!
 
01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David
 
01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you!
 
01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXXIII, Part I

To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue. 
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace. 
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J
 
00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end.
 
01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VI

What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will? 
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page?
 
00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118
 
00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance.
 
01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen."
 
01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.”
 
01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🙂 )
 
01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:08 kevin: Thank you
 
01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part III

The times reading The Evergetinos I find my mind and heart swimming not in darkness but rather in a light with which I am unfamiliar. For in reading the fathers, everything seems to be turned on its head. The writings are often jarring, but in a similar way to that of the Gospel.  To read deeply is to find one’s heart inflamed. To listen closely is to find something stirred within us that perhaps was once lifeless. The words can be so piercing that they reveal parts of ourselves that we were unaware of or did not know existed. This is what we were shown tonight; and this is what makes every moment of reflecting upon the fathers worth it.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:34 Mark Kelly: Fr. David is speaking of Fr. Lazarus el Antony.
 
00:31:23 Mark Kelly: Fr. Lazarus vide:  https://vimeo.com/9794946
 
00:35:54 Anthony: This section by Isaac is jarring because it appears to conflict w\ith duty to family and community; and it conflicts with the Christian culture ideal which Europeans at least remember from the Middle Ages.  Pope Benedict's catecheses on the saints which built Christendom would be very different if he came from a culture that was dominated by, say, Islam.
 
00:41:01 Bridget McGinley: I am from Philly...… he ended pretty disgraced. I think the Princehood got to his head. That is a big crown to wear. I agree it is contrary to religious life.
 
00:43:13 Anthony: In my opinion, I believe I see this "worldiness" emerge in Europe after the rocky path the Germanic tribes had in full conversion to the Faith.  The Romano-Greeks in the East had similar problems manifested in another way - hence the unflattering term "byzantine".  Each culture needs to fully convert and not flatter themselves.
 
00:43:55 Babington (or Babi): I think it was Saint Therese who wrote “Everything I have and am everything I am is pure gift.”
 
00:44:17 Babington (or Babi): Oops miswrote
 
00:44:35 Babington (or Babi): Everything I have and everything I am is pure gift.
 
00:45:56 iPhone: Principalities ?
 
00:52:17 Mark Kelly: One of the better-known sayings of the desert fathers is,” There are two things to avoid, an easy life and vain glory.”
 
00:53:18 iPhone: principalities and powers
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Monk is from monos = single
 
00:57:24 Anthony: single minded, so I have heard
 
01:13:17 iPhone: Really Excellent !
 
01:15:19 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen
 
01:18:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Reminds me of the style of parables. First of the unfaithful servants. Then like the inverse of the parable of the lost sheep. But in this case, it’s the celebration of Satan and all of Hell when just one “sheep” is lost.
 
01:20:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:59 Babington (or Babi): Good stuff.  Thank you Father. God bless you all. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part V

Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us. 
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49
 
00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello!  We are new to the group.  We live in Colorado.
 
00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116
 
00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate!
 
00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you!  Good to be here!
 
00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy!
 
00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke
 
00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell
 
00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory
 
00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on?
 
00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51
 
00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks!
 
00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander?
 
00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant
 
00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean?
 
00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one..
 
00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning'
 
00:43:08 Rachel: lol me!
 
00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it..
 
00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy?
 
00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a  young man.
 
00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance?  Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition?
 
00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before
 
00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes
00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful.
 
01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church.
 
01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer?
 
01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject?
 
01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:46 Rachel: haha
 
01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊
 
01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you!
 
01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂
 
01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
01:16:01 Riccardo Orlandi: thank!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part II

We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me. 
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside?  Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!
 
00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!!
 
00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂
 
00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me.
 
00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession.
 
01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
 
01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow?
 
01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay
 
01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God?
 
01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight.
 
01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :)
 
01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father!
 
01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part IV

We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28
 
00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂
 
00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues
 
00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless
 
00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them.
 
00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study
 
00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating!
 
00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing.
 
01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing?
 
01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you
 
01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part II and XXXII, Part I

Tonight, in Hypothesis 32we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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Text of chat during the group:
01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted.
 
01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue:  show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it.  We need to find a worthy sacrifice.
 
01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called?
 
01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism.
 
01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow
 
01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks.  I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part III

Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us. 
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short. 
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world? 
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow!
 
00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112
 
00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors
 
00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling
 
00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :)
 
00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe?
 
00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins?
 
00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts?  Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad.
 
00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen!
 
00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane
 
00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary
 
00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short'
 
01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration?
 
01:10:56 Anthony: alloy?
 
01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made....
 
01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part I

How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly.  It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world? 
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed
 
00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin
 
00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me.
 
00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle.  Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church.
 
00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers!
 
00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God.
 
00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring
 
01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful!
 
01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun.  It looks like maybe people should have left her alone.  Am I wrong here?
 
01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear.
 
01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother
 
01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father!
 
01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father
 
01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part II

The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly.  They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace.  This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff.
 
00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear?
 
00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org
 
00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears.
 
00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this?
 
00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow.  His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality.
 
00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge?
 
00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios
 
00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan
 
00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state.
 
00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station.  One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant.  It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this?
 
00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us.
 
01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
01:12:21 Daniel Allen: This makes sense. If you plead guilty you will skip past trying to prove your innocence and simply ask for mercy from the judge. But if you are busy trying to put up a defense you have no time to simply beg for mercy.
 
01:16:26 Henry Peresie: That happens often in Facebook.
 
01:22:48 CMoran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:22:54 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:56 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:23:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:06 kevin: thank you
 
01:23:08 Deiren Masterson: God bless you Father - you are a gift.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXX, Part I

Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us. 
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX
 
00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish.  We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs.
 
00:31:04 carol: And obedience
 
00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE)
 
00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins
 
01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 
 
01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has!
 
01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring
 
01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men
 
01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!!
 
01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E
 
01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e
 
01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all
 
01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VI: On the Remembrance of Death and Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning

To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire. 
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it. 
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil.
 
00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all.  :)
 
00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it?
 
00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting.  So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest.
 
00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense.
 
00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete.
 
00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance.  Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it.  We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit>
 
01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with!
 
01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving!
 
01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you
 
01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part III

This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God. 
 
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject?  We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?”  The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.”  We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life.
 
00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us.  So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors.
 
00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be
 
00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits
 
00:37:13 Anthony: medium
 
00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there?
 
00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus
 
00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people.
 
00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience
 
01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven.  God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice.  and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part IV and Chapter VI: On Remembrance of Death, Part I

We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107
 
00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice:  Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life?
 
00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty?
 
01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose.
 
01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art.
 
01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits
 
01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part II

We found ourselves this evening entering more deeply into the nature of the spiritual struggle and warfare and the effects that it has upon us and others. We do not exist in isolation and there is no passive position in the spiritual life or our relationship with God. We either struggle with the passions or they gradually direct our life. We either struggle with God and those he has given to support us and to be our allies in the battle or we begin to war with the tyrant. Our willingness to enter into the struggle with temptation, to fearlessly endure the trials that we undergo in life begins to reveal more and more to the soul. We begin to be able to distinguish between virtue and vice with a greater clarity. We also acquire virtue by this warfare and toil and so begin to see that we are more steadfast when embattled. Though stronger, however, we also learn that we must remain humble and hate vice so as to avoid it. Finally, we see our frailty in all of its fullness and the love and the power of God. The very battle itself reveals so much about ourselves and the hidden regions of the unconscious; that have been wounded by our sin or from having lived in a fallen world. Yet, it also reveals to us the very desire of God. God longs and yearns for our love. He thirsts for it. Such things are not learned from books but rather through the experience of the Paschal mystery. It is through dying to sin and self and rising to life in Christ that we come to know Him and to understand the nature of divine love.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:38:39 Eric Ewanco: this paragraph really resonates with my recent experience!!
 
00:52:17 Anthony: Pope Benedict wrote about a non-sinful understanding of Eros.
 
00:52:45 Anthony: Spe Salvi?
 
00:54:04 Rachel: Can one experience these temptations so keenly that they feel as if they are actually doing violence to themselves? Especially when it come to thoughts. Where one does not wish to sin in the thoughts let alone sins of action. Do the demons and our wounds from past sins attack us even greater and rebel when we have set our hearts on God and his will alone? I know someone who described the fight as almost maddening because they had been so steeped in sin that the battle would even feel physically and mentally wounding. it reminds me of when Saint may of Egypt told Abba Zosimas that there were some days she would spend face down on the ground until they passed. Calling on the name of Jese.
 
00:54:11 Rachel: Jesus.
 
00:54:15 Eric Ewanco: I don't see "eros" occur in Spe Salvi
 
00:55:50 Ashley Kaschl: I think it might be in Deus Caritas Est
 
00:56:32 Eric Ewanco: probably; I see 34 hits for eros there
 
01:00:14 Anthony: For what it's worth, sometimes, I almost feel that the devils even wish to snatch away prayer or take over consciousness to direct my attention away from God and to them.
 
01:01:10 Eric Ewanco: oh yeah; definitely, @anthony
 
01:01:40 Anthony: On the timelessness of the unconscious, "Iconostasis" by Fr. Pavel Florensky opens with this theme.
 
01:03:57 Rachel: Yes! This is precisely what I hoped you would touch upon.
 
01:06:48 Rachel: Where it would seem to bring a person the the edge of sanity but that is precisly where all of our ideas that we had of ourselves and of God are brought into the light. Where one become disillusioned with oneself and realizes that they have been brought to the threshold of the bridal chamber. Where there are no illusions and one stands as they are, in God. Where on e allows themselves to be loved as they have always been.
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: Took me a little longer to type this out but I wanted to bounce off of Anthony’s comment on eros, I was recently talking to some friends about Pope Benedict’s clarifying of what God’s love looks like. Pope B says something like “on the Cross, God’s eros is made present for us.” Because His love is both agape and eros. Agape because it is selfless, self-gift, unconditional, sacrificial, etc. AND eros because God yearns for His people in the same way that eros burns passionately for the beloved. Eros moves the lover to become one with the beloved, ie, Christ and His church and through the Eucharist. So on the Cross, God begs the love of His people. Prayer is our act of eros back to God, where our own yearning for Him is most present within us as we call out to Him from our innermost being. So prayer is also the biggest target of the enemy because he knows that if he can destroy our connection to God, he greatly frustrate our passionate desire for Him.
 
01:13:43 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part III

It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz.
 
00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂
 
00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday.
 
00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like?
 
00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
Berean Standard Bible · Download
 
 
Cross References
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
 
John 10:6
Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
 
 
Treasury of Scripture
But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
The dog.
 
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
 
2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire..
 
00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly
 
00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful
 
00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my
sins
 
00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty.  They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition.
 
01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;)
 
01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way
 
01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._
 
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part III and Hypothesis XXIX, Part I

It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243
 
00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia.  I am infected with it these days!
 
00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling?
 
00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty
 
00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4.  Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread.  They can be stored for several months.  To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts.  I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top.
 
01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those
 
01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation).  At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture.  It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare.  It is in a way very hard to be Catholic.
 
01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing!
 
01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part II

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God. 
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant? 
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."
 
00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.
 
00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection
 
00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.
 
00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.
 
00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.
 
01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.
 
01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.
 
01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman
 
01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.
 
01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.
 
01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️
 
01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part II

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.
 
00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.
 
00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳
 
00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.
 
00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."
 
00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."
 
00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?
 
01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting
 
01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way
 
01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.
 
01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??
 
01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part I

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy. 
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell. 
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97
 
00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important
 
00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?
 
00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?
 
00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.
 
01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.
 
01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.
 
01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part I

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom. 
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept. 
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but. 
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XVI

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114
 
00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion
 
00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.
 
00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?
 
00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.
 
00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.
 
00:50:02 Rachel: yep
 
00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.
 
00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!
 
00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life
 
00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.
 
00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.
 
00:57:31 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂
 
01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.
 
01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.
 
01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.
 
01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!
 
01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!
 
01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.
 
01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂
 
01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVII

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope. 
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability. 
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.
 
00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave
 
00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us
 
00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!
 
00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol
 
00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).
 
00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.
 
00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"
 
00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.
 
00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.
 
00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.
 
00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.
 
00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.
 
00:59:05 Debra: ❤️
 
01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
 
01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested...
https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/
 
01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.
 
01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.
 
01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.
 
01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like
01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂
 
01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..
 
01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏
 
01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XV

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith. 
Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross. 
We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?”
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110
 
00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.
 
00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice
 
00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice
 
00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀
 
00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110
 
00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!
 
00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.
 
00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility
 
00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"
 
00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣
 
00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....
 
00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?
 
00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years
 
00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?
 
00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi
 
00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner
 
00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre
 
00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ
 
00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?
 
00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo
 
00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear
 
00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL
 
01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?
 
01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.
 
01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way
 
01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.
 
01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father
 
01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!
 
01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part III

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?
 
00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?
 
00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.
 
00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?
 
01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling
 
01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIV

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D
 
00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?
 
00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91
 
00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/
 
00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!
 
00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?
 
00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.
 
00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂
 
00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience
 
00:55:01 Rachel: LOL
 
00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.
 
00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.
 
01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance
 
01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets
 
01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄
 
01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.
 
01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often
 
01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.
 
01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow
 
01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You
 
01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)
 
01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."
 
01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father
 
01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen
 
01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!
 
01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!
 
01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!
 
01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!
 
01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you
 
01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly
 
01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!
 
01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address
 
01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!
 
01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you
 
01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat
 
01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part II

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion. 
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?
 
00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.
 
00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?
 
00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?
 
00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?
 
01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂
 
01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are
very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.
 
01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come
 
01:07:12 Paul: +1
 
01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose
 
01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!
 
01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!
 
01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL
 
01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..
 
01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father
 
01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.
 
01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!
 
01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!
 
01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren
 
01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!
 
01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks