Philokalia Ministries

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part III

The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6
 
00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession?  Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition?
 
00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12.
 
00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ?
 
00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm
 
01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful
 
01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired?
 
01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄
 
01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints.  We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young.
 
01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues.
 
01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part III

As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17
 
00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David!
 
00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17
 
00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
 
01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you
 
01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father!
 
01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :(
 
01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you
 
01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part II

What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding
 
00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God>
 
00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in.
 
00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others?  Any room in the Fathers for this?  Or is that called something else in their terminology?
 
00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering
 
01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself
 
01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue?
 
01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need).
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part II

What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.”  It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us. 
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ. 
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs
 
00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds
 
00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too
 
00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity?
 
00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs.
 
00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day.
 
00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. 
 
But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍
 
00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation.
 
00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this.
 
00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it).
 
01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience?
 
01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VII and Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part I

Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness. 
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin. 
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.”  The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66
 
00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page?
 
00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120
 
00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean!
 
00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God
 
00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻
 
00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼
 
01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, 
 
“Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.”
 
01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?”
 
01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley.  Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen!
 
01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...?  Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure?  Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions
 
01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father
 
01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:05 Art: Thank you father!
 
01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David
 
01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you!
 
01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXXIII, Part I

To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue. 
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace. 
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J
 
00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end.
 
01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VI

What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will? 
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page?
 
00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118
 
00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance.
 
01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen."
 
01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.”
 
01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🙂 )
 
01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:08 kevin: Thank you
 
01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part III

The times reading The Evergetinos I find my mind and heart swimming not in darkness but rather in a light with which I am unfamiliar. For in reading the fathers, everything seems to be turned on its head. The writings are often jarring, but in a similar way to that of the Gospel.  To read deeply is to find one’s heart inflamed. To listen closely is to find something stirred within us that perhaps was once lifeless. The words can be so piercing that they reveal parts of ourselves that we were unaware of or did not know existed. This is what we were shown tonight; and this is what makes every moment of reflecting upon the fathers worth it.
 
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:34 Mark Kelly: Fr. David is speaking of Fr. Lazarus el Antony.
 
00:31:23 Mark Kelly: Fr. Lazarus vide:  https://vimeo.com/9794946
 
00:35:54 Anthony: This section by Isaac is jarring because it appears to conflict w\ith duty to family and community; and it conflicts with the Christian culture ideal which Europeans at least remember from the Middle Ages.  Pope Benedict's catecheses on the saints which built Christendom would be very different if he came from a culture that was dominated by, say, Islam.
 
00:41:01 Bridget McGinley: I am from Philly...… he ended pretty disgraced. I think the Princehood got to his head. That is a big crown to wear. I agree it is contrary to religious life.
 
00:43:13 Anthony: In my opinion, I believe I see this "worldiness" emerge in Europe after the rocky path the Germanic tribes had in full conversion to the Faith.  The Romano-Greeks in the East had similar problems manifested in another way - hence the unflattering term "byzantine".  Each culture needs to fully convert and not flatter themselves.
 
00:43:55 Babington (or Babi): I think it was Saint Therese who wrote “Everything I have and am everything I am is pure gift.”
 
00:44:17 Babington (or Babi): Oops miswrote
 
00:44:35 Babington (or Babi): Everything I have and everything I am is pure gift.
 
00:45:56 iPhone: Principalities ?
 
00:52:17 Mark Kelly: One of the better-known sayings of the desert fathers is,” There are two things to avoid, an easy life and vain glory.”
 
00:53:18 iPhone: principalities and powers
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Monk is from monos = single
 
00:57:24 Anthony: single minded, so I have heard
 
01:13:17 iPhone: Really Excellent !
 
01:15:19 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen
 
01:18:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Reminds me of the style of parables. First of the unfaithful servants. Then like the inverse of the parable of the lost sheep. But in this case, it’s the celebration of Satan and all of Hell when just one “sheep” is lost.
 
01:20:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:59 Babington (or Babi): Good stuff.  Thank you Father. God bless you all. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part V

Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us. 
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49
 
00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello!  We are new to the group.  We live in Colorado.
 
00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116
 
00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate!
 
00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you!  Good to be here!
 
00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy!
 
00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke
 
00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell
 
00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory
 
00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on?
 
00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51
 
00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks!
 
00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander?
 
00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant
 
00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean?
 
00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one..
 
00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning'
 
00:43:08 Rachel: lol me!
 
00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it..
 
00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy?
 
00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a  young man.
 
00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance?  Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition?
 
00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before
 
00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes
00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful.
 
01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church.
 
01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer?
 
01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject?
 
01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:46 Rachel: haha
 
01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊
 
01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you!
 
01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂
 
01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
01:16:01 Riccardo Orlandi: thank!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part II

We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me. 
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside?  Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!
 
00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!!
 
00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂
 
00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me.
 
00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession.
 
01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
 
01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow?
 
01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay
 
01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God?
 
01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight.
 
01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :)
 
01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father!
 
01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part IV

We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28
 
00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂
 
00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues
 
00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless
 
00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them.
 
00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study
 
00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating!
 
00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing.
 
01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing?
 
01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you
 
01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part II and XXXII, Part I

Tonight, in Hypothesis 32we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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Text of chat during the group:
01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted.
 
01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue:  show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it.  We need to find a worthy sacrifice.
 
01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called?
 
01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism.
 
01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow
 
01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks.  I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part III

Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us. 
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short. 
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world? 
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow!
 
00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112
 
00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors
 
00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling
 
00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :)
 
00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe?
 
00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins?
 
00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts?  Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad.
 
00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen!
 
00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane
 
00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary
 
00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short'
 
01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration?
 
01:10:56 Anthony: alloy?
 
01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made....
 
01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part I

How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly.  It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world? 
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed
 
00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin
 
00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me.
 
00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle.  Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church.
 
00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers!
 
00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God.
 
00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring
 
01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful!
 
01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun.  It looks like maybe people should have left her alone.  Am I wrong here?
 
01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear.
 
01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother
 
01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father!
 
01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father
 
01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part II

The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly.  They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace.  This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff.
 
00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear?
 
00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org
 
00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears.
 
00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this?
 
00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow.  His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality.
 
00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge?
 
00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios
 
00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan
 
00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state.
 
00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station.  One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant.  It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this?
 
00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us.
 
01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
01:12:21 Daniel Allen: This makes sense. If you plead guilty you will skip past trying to prove your innocence and simply ask for mercy from the judge. But if you are busy trying to put up a defense you have no time to simply beg for mercy.
 
01:16:26 Henry Peresie: That happens often in Facebook.
 
01:22:48 CMoran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:22:54 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:56 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:23:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:06 kevin: thank you
 
01:23:08 Deiren Masterson: God bless you Father - you are a gift.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXX, Part I

Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us. 
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX
 
00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish.  We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs.
 
00:31:04 carol: And obedience
 
00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE)
 
00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins
 
01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 
 
01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has!
 
01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring
 
01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men
 
01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!!
 
01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E
 
01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e
 
01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all
 
01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VI: On the Remembrance of Death and Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning

To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire. 
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it. 
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil.
 
00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all.  :)
 
00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it?
 
00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting.  So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest.
 
00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense.
 
00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete.
 
00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance.  Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it.  We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit>
 
01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with!
 
01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving!
 
01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you
 
01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part III

This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God. 
 
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject?  We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?”  The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.”  We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life.
 
00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us.  So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors.
 
00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be
 
00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits
 
00:37:13 Anthony: medium
 
00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there?
 
00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus
 
00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people.
 
00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience
 
01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven.  God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice.  and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part IV and Chapter VI: On Remembrance of Death, Part I

We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107
 
00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice:  Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life?
 
00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty?
 
01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose.
 
01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art.
 
01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits
 
01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part II

We found ourselves this evening entering more deeply into the nature of the spiritual struggle and warfare and the effects that it has upon us and others. We do not exist in isolation and there is no passive position in the spiritual life or our relationship with God. We either struggle with the passions or they gradually direct our life. We either struggle with God and those he has given to support us and to be our allies in the battle or we begin to war with the tyrant. Our willingness to enter into the struggle with temptation, to fearlessly endure the trials that we undergo in life begins to reveal more and more to the soul. We begin to be able to distinguish between virtue and vice with a greater clarity. We also acquire virtue by this warfare and toil and so begin to see that we are more steadfast when embattled. Though stronger, however, we also learn that we must remain humble and hate vice so as to avoid it. Finally, we see our frailty in all of its fullness and the love and the power of God. The very battle itself reveals so much about ourselves and the hidden regions of the unconscious; that have been wounded by our sin or from having lived in a fallen world. Yet, it also reveals to us the very desire of God. God longs and yearns for our love. He thirsts for it. Such things are not learned from books but rather through the experience of the Paschal mystery. It is through dying to sin and self and rising to life in Christ that we come to know Him and to understand the nature of divine love.
 
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Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:38:39 Eric Ewanco: this paragraph really resonates with my recent experience!!
 
00:52:17 Anthony: Pope Benedict wrote about a non-sinful understanding of Eros.
 
00:52:45 Anthony: Spe Salvi?
 
00:54:04 Rachel: Can one experience these temptations so keenly that they feel as if they are actually doing violence to themselves? Especially when it come to thoughts. Where one does not wish to sin in the thoughts let alone sins of action. Do the demons and our wounds from past sins attack us even greater and rebel when we have set our hearts on God and his will alone? I know someone who described the fight as almost maddening because they had been so steeped in sin that the battle would even feel physically and mentally wounding. it reminds me of when Saint may of Egypt told Abba Zosimas that there were some days she would spend face down on the ground until they passed. Calling on the name of Jese.
 
00:54:11 Rachel: Jesus.
 
00:54:15 Eric Ewanco: I don't see "eros" occur in Spe Salvi
 
00:55:50 Ashley Kaschl: I think it might be in Deus Caritas Est
 
00:56:32 Eric Ewanco: probably; I see 34 hits for eros there
 
01:00:14 Anthony: For what it's worth, sometimes, I almost feel that the devils even wish to snatch away prayer or take over consciousness to direct my attention away from God and to them.
 
01:01:10 Eric Ewanco: oh yeah; definitely, @anthony
 
01:01:40 Anthony: On the timelessness of the unconscious, "Iconostasis" by Fr. Pavel Florensky opens with this theme.
 
01:03:57 Rachel: Yes! This is precisely what I hoped you would touch upon.
 
01:06:48 Rachel: Where it would seem to bring a person the the edge of sanity but that is precisly where all of our ideas that we had of ourselves and of God are brought into the light. Where one become disillusioned with oneself and realizes that they have been brought to the threshold of the bridal chamber. Where there are no illusions and one stands as they are, in God. Where on e allows themselves to be loved as they have always been.
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: Took me a little longer to type this out but I wanted to bounce off of Anthony’s comment on eros, I was recently talking to some friends about Pope Benedict’s clarifying of what God’s love looks like. Pope B says something like “on the Cross, God’s eros is made present for us.” Because His love is both agape and eros. Agape because it is selfless, self-gift, unconditional, sacrificial, etc. AND eros because God yearns for His people in the same way that eros burns passionately for the beloved. Eros moves the lover to become one with the beloved, ie, Christ and His church and through the Eucharist. So on the Cross, God begs the love of His people. Prayer is our act of eros back to God, where our own yearning for Him is most present within us as we call out to Him from our innermost being. So prayer is also the biggest target of the enemy because he knows that if he can destroy our connection to God, he greatly frustrate our passionate desire for Him.
 
01:13:43 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part III

It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz.
 
00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂
 
00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday.
 
00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like?
 
00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
Berean Standard Bible · Download
 
 
Cross References
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
 
John 10:6
Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
 
 
Treasury of Scripture
But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
The dog.
 
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
 
2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire..
 
00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly
 
00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful
 
00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my
sins
 
00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty.  They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition.
 
01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;)
 
01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way
 
01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._
 
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part III and Hypothesis XXIX, Part I

It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243
 
00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia.  I am infected with it these days!
 
00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling?
 
00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty
 
00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4.  Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread.  They can be stored for several months.  To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts.  I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top.
 
01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those
 
01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation).  At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture.  It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare.  It is in a way very hard to be Catholic.
 
01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing!
 
01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part II

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God. 
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant? 
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."
 
00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.
 
00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection
 
00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.
 
00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.
 
00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.
 
01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.
 
01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.
 
01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman
 
01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.
 
01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.
 
01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️
 
01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part II

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.
 
00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.
 
00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳
 
00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.
 
00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."
 
00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."
 
00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?
 
01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting
 
01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way
 
01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.
 
01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??
 
01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part I

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy. 
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell. 
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97
 
00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important
 
00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?
 
00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?
 
00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.
 
01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.
 
01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.
 
01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part I

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom. 
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept. 
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but. 
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XVI

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114
 
00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion
 
00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.
 
00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?
 
00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.
 
00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.
 
00:50:02 Rachel: yep
 
00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.
 
00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!
 
00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life
 
00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.
 
00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.
 
00:57:31 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂
 
01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.
 
01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.
 
01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.
 
01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!
 
01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!
 
01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.
 
01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂
 
01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVII

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope. 
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability. 
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.
 
00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave
 
00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us
 
00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!
 
00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol
 
00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).
 
00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.
 
00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"
 
00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.
 
00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.
 
00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.
 
00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.
 
00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.
 
00:59:05 Debra: ❤️
 
01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
 
01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested...
https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/
 
01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.
 
01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.
 
01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.
 
01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like
01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂
 
01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..
 
01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏
 
01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XV

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith. 
Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross. 
We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?”
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110
 
00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.
 
00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice
 
00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice
 
00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀
 
00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110
 
00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!
 
00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.
 
00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility
 
00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"
 
00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣
 
00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....
 
00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?
 
00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years
 
00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?
 
00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi
 
00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner
 
00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre
 
00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ
 
00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?
 
00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo
 
00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear
 
00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL
 
01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?
 
01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.
 
01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way
 
01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.
 
01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father
 
01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!
 
01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part III

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?
 
00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?
 
00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.
 
00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?
 
01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling
 
01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIV

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D
 
00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?
 
00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91
 
00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/
 
00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!
 
00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?
 
00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.
 
00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂
 
00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience
 
00:55:01 Rachel: LOL
 
00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.
 
00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.
 
01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance
 
01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets
 
01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄
 
01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.
 
01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often
 
01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.
 
01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow
 
01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You
 
01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)
 
01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."
 
01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father
 
01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen
 
01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!
 
01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!
 
01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!
 
01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!
 
01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you
 
01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly
 
01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!
 
01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address
 
01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!
 
01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you
 
01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat
 
01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part II

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion. 
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?
 
00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.
 
00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?
 
00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?
 
00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?
 
01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂
 
01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are
very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.
 
01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come
 
01:07:12 Paul: +1
 
01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose
 
01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!
 
01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!
 
01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL
 
01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..
 
01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father
 
01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.
 
01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!
 
01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!
 
01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren
 
01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!
 
01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIII

One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence? 
What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty!
 
00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at?
 
00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91
 
00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody.
 
00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about?
 
00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written.
 
00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well.
 
00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell
 
00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert
 
00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅
 
00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96
 
01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will
 
01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence.
 
01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around
 
01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article
 
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/
 
01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though!
 
01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ."
 
01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation
 
01:16:27 Art: Thank you father.  Good night!
 
01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
 
01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all
 
01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:39 kevin: thanks
 
01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.
 
00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.
 
00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?
 
00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂
 
00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣
 
00:38:47 Debra: 😁
 
00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?
 
00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus
 
00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness
 
00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.
 
00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩
 
00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!
 
00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣
 
00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!
 
00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!
 
00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇
 
00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.
 
00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!
 
00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.
 
01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...
 
01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆
 
01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him. 
The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂
 
00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!
 
00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and
 
00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go
 
00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy. 
 
He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.
 
00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁
 
01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XII

I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense.  Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88
 
00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please
 
00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88
 
00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81
 
00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u
 
00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here
 
00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity.
 
00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults  causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves?  Doesn’t justice demand that?
 
00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth
 
00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.”
 
00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions).
 
00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness.
 
00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community?
 
01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here?
 
01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child..
 
01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart.
 
01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out.  I didn't hear what you just announced.
 
01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼
 
01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes
 
01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week)
 
01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you.
 
01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you!
 
01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers
 
01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much!
 
01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David!
 
01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father.  Good night
 
01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!!
 
01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event.
 
01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father
 
01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!!
 
01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen.  Thank you Father.
 
01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions. 
So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart -  thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others. 
Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity. 
Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4
 
00:20:30 Jack: page?
 
00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4
 
00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie  Man of God.. He was very Holy
 
00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God
 
00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)?
 
00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?)
 
00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct
 
00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec
 
00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback
 
00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or
 
00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends
 
00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop
 
00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin
 
00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example
 
00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all.
01:01:45 Eric Ewanco: Seeing our own faults in another is called "projection"
 
01:05:28 Ambrose Little, OP: Hey, I love a good shower. :)
 
01:13:27 Carol: Was it cassian or climacus who also warned against joking?
 
01:14:34 Erick Chastain: Follow-up to Carol's: St Benedict warned against a certain kind of joking in his rule. 
 
A related quote: "A friend is a second self, so that our consciousness of a friend's existence...makes us more fully conscious of our own existence." -Aristotle
 
01:15:15 Erick Chastain: (Aristotle)
 
01:20:28 Anne Barbosa: THANK YOU!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XI

As we allow ourselves to be drawn deeper into the meaning of obedience by St. John’s writing, we begin to see the beauty of the virtue itself and the fruit that it produces within the soul. It is not a slavishness or weakness of will, but rather a soul that has been awakened to the lack of freedom that comes from self-judgment and that is limited or obscured by sin. The more that the heart is purified by grace and the ascetic life, the more we begin to long for obedience because it is an imitation of our Lord. It is His obedience that has led us all to the freedom of life and love in God. We become the greatest confessors of the faith when we conform ourselves to Him in this fashion. A true spiritual father, then,  is going to guide their spiritual children along this path that treasures humility, stillness, silence and unceasing prayer.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 87
 
00:04:12 FrDavid Abernethy: paragraph 72
 
00:19:17 Anthony: Thus, we have Vladika David ;)
 
00:29:25 Anthony: This humility is different than the idea that man is totally depraved but God declares us just. That religious idea can/does lead to self-loathing.  The hopefulness is in the infusion of Grace and Love which God gives us very wounded people.  That is a happy hope in contrast to our weakness and realization of our darkness outside of being attached to the Vine.
 
00:40:31 Anthony: There is a Bulgarian Orthodox Skete in Palmyra, VA near Charlottesville.
 
00:47:21 Rachel: They may, by this silence, learn to worship God in the moment. Standing silent before the other and suspending judgment..
 
00:47:59 Eric Ewanco: how is silence concretely rooted in gentleness and love?
 
00:48:04 Rachel: May be a way to practice faith and wait patiently for God to reveal Himself
 
00:51:11 Rachel: I don't think it means that we wont meet with situations where we find others contradicting us, or, when we are actively trying to be silent ourselves contradicting others all day long. So the silence may bring up a lot of uncomfortable contradictions where we learn by necessity, to wait patiently and rely on God in His good providence. It is not an inactive silence
 
00:52:02 Rachel: Its not rendering oneself dumb
 
00:53:13 Carol: Like the Blessed Virgin, pondering in one’s heart
 
00:54:23 Johnny Ross: Isn't this silence related to our Saviors Kenosis? It is an emptying of ourselves. Related also to the Via Negativa?
 
00:59:24 Anthony: When we are emptied, we want to be filled, to have an identity; but it
 
01:00:13 Anthony: it's awfully hard to follow Jesus because we can't grasp or contain Him, so we want to build ourselves into an image of what we want to be or should be.
 
01:01:03 Anthony: the heirs of the maccabees
 
01:05:52 Rachel: today
 
01:06:30 Rachel: in whole foods yesterday lol
 
01:08:28 Johnny Ross: Yes, we face a stark choice today, Either we worship God or we worship ourselves.
 
01:09:01 Anthony: /because prayer is work?
 
01:12:34 Bridget McGinley: The Bible states to Pray Always... the theme of The Way of the Pilgrim
 
01:14:42 Rachel: Instead of stripping oneself of everything that may stand in the way of God. Emptying our hearts can feel uncomfortable. prayer can become like building up a wall. Sort of like coming to God every time in prayer and only making small talk or talking at Him, instead of listening and silencing everything that causes anxiety. A way of controlling the conversation for fear of hearing something that is displeasing.
 
01:17:02 Carol Nypaver: Saint Augustine ~ “When the word of God increases, human words fail.”
 
01:17:50 Debra: And how can you tell the difference?
 
01:18:11 Debra: Between desolation, or being drawn deeper?
 
01:19:46 Debra: Good points...linger in those moments...see where God is taking us
 
01:20:39 Rachel: I think St Sophrony and St Silouan speak of this. I wonder is there always a correlation between desolation and being drawn deeper? Almost like suddenly becoming aware in a deeper sense that in ourselves, we lack the capacity to run to Him. To feel His presence
 
01:21:13 Rachel: So we wait, and stay with Him. St Therese speaks of this too
 
01:22:33 Anthony: That is what Purgatory is, per Dante.
 
01:23:01 Anthony: a longing to be free, repaired and pure for love.
 
01:24:21 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:24:33 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone
 
01:24:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!!!
 
01:24:36 Rachel: lol yes
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXIV

There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety. 
Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive.  Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed.
 
00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements.
 
00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me”
 
00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury.  It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense?
 
00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs.
 
00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of.
 
00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course.
 
01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy.
 
01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
 
01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands).
 
01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter
 
01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying
 
01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God.
 
01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way.
 
01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable.
 
01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part X

Tonight we continued with our study of Step 4 on Obedience. As we go deeper into St. John’s writing we begin to see the fruit of this virtue that often remains hidden to our eyes. Our obedience fosters habit; in particular the habit of virtue where one acknowledges that God is a fellow laborer. Obedience also shapes the way that we approach the confession of our sins. It allows us to see their gravity, and it fosters within us the deepest sense of compunction. The fruit of this, however, is a repentance the draws us back into the arms of God swiftly and allows us to experience His healing grace. The great virtue also makes us cherish the gift of the Holy Eucharist more fully. We begin to understand how precious this gift is and so desire to protect our minds and our hearts from the greater attacks that often come after receiving our Lord. It also allows us to see that we do not engage in this battle in isolation but rather we march with the first martyr, that is Christ. Through obedience we always have the Divine Physician with us. If we do fall we are immediately aided and healed by his presence. For this reason we must also choose well a competent spiritual physician, an elder who himself has been formed and shaped by this great virtue. For St. John tells us that obedience brings humility and out of this humility is born dispassion. The more that we walk along this path the more we begin to experience the angelic life; that is, we begin to experience the very peace and the joy of the kingdom, God draws us into the very perfection of His Love.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 86, para 63
 
00:14:35 CMoran: I work at WQED so maybe I can run across 5th Ave. for liturgy.
 
00:14:49 CMoran: Cindy
 
00:15:46 Anthony: A lot of restraunters and homeschooling families?
 
00:18:07 Bonnie Lewis: Excellent!
 
00:20:11 Rachel: Thatsna 10 percent down payment in Cali
 
00:20:26 Rachel: lol
 
00:35:38 Marco da Vinha: Though I am a Latin, looking at Forgiveness Sunday just before Lent - the "Tithe of the Year" - brings to mind Mt 5:23-24: "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
 
00:37:51 Eric Ewanco: It's easier to be humble when we are wrong, especially with those who are humble. It is much harder to be humble when we are right, dealing with those who are prideful and arrogant!
 
00:46:54 Kevin Clay: What does John mean by the last part: “For it is better to war with pollutions (thoughts) than with conceit.”
 
00:47:10 Bridget McGinley: What might those additional "spiritual sacrifices" look like after confession?
 
00:48:25 Rachel: Pride versus thoughts of various kinds that show the wounds of our disloyalty. ride may be more difficult and subtle?
 
00:49:05 Br Theophan the non-recluse: @kevin if one presumes that they have truly won the spiritual battle, then they fall prey to the sin of conceit, which is worst being engaged in a spiritual battle, as one is then too spiritually blind to see their sinful state
 
00:49:09 Rachel: Pride* o dear sorry for  the typos
 
00:50:08 Rachel: ty Brother Theophan
 
00:52:45 Carol: Theophan said something similar about the time immediately after Communion, to seek solitude and privacy in one’s room to deepen the intimacy of prayer
 
00:53:48 Eric Ewanco: I believe, Lord, and profess that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, come to this world to save sinners, of whom I am the greatest.  I believe also that this is really your spotless body and that this is really your precious blood.  Wherefore I pray to You: have mercy on me and pardon my offenses, the deliberate and the indeliberate, those committed in word and in deed whether knowingly or inadvertently; and count me worthy to share without condemnation your spotless mysteries, for the remission of sins and for eternal life.
 
Receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in your mystical supper: for I will not betray your mystery to your enemies, nor give You a kiss like Judas, but like the thief, I confess You: remember me, Lord, in your kingdom.
 
00:54:06 Marco da Vinha: Father, a bit of a digression, but do you have any idea of when penances to combat the passions stopped being the norm in the West? My own experience in the confessional has always been "pray X/Y/Z" and never any concrete actions to combat the vices I struggle with. And yet I read recently a saintly 16th century Dominican archbishop advising his priests to give penances according the the sins confessed: fasting for sins of gluttony/lust; almsgiving for avarice; prayer for sloth/acedia...
 
00:55:00 Eric Ewanco: "May the reception of your holy mysteries, Lord, be for me not to judgment or condemnation, but to the healing of (my) soul and body. Amen."
 
01:00:05 Henry Peresie: St. John Vianney was one of those priests who spent many hours in  the confessional.
 
01:04:49 Eric Ewanco: I thought "hesychasm" arose a few centuries after John?
 
01:08:28 Anthony: As David said, something like even his bones groaned.
 
01:18:08 Rachel: This reminds me of the rich young man who encountered Our Lord Himself and went away sad, not willing to give up his attachments. How he followed all of the commandments in obedience..
 
01:18:38 Rachel: yet, God is found in His commandments. Or, hidden in His commandments.
 
01:19:09 Anthony: it makes sense since angels are under obedience and they are in God's happy presence.
 
01:20:04 Anthony: and here i thought they always were talking about not marrying.  wow.
 
01:23:11 Rachel: The older copy's introduction is wonderful!
 
01:24:02 Marco da Vinha: God bless, Father!
 
01:24:08 CMoran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:24:18 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:24:20 Bonnie Lewis: thank you again Father!  Always wonderful.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part III

A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One?  The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering?  What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts?
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202
 
00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph
 
00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;)
 
00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;)
 
00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel
 
00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes
 
00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here?
 
00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils:  to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not.  The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part IX

Tonight we continued our reading of Step 4 on Obedience and its practice in the spiritual life. Saint John, as well as so many of the desert fathers, unearth what we typically keep hidden within our hearts. Rather than living in a spirit of obedience and allowing that obedience to bear the fruit of humility within us by setting aside our own willfulness, we cling to the illusions of self-sufficiency. Despite all that Christ has done and despite all that God has given to us, we believe that we can live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The humility that obedience fosters teaches us that we cannot externalize or distance ourselves from the evil and the sin of the world. There is a radical solidarity between ourselves and others that demands a constant movement of our heart - repentance. Whenever we see evil or sin, our first movement must be toward God in a cry for mercy and healing. We must humbly lay bare our wound to the physician and without being ashamed say: “It is my wound, father, it is my plague, caused by my own negligence, and, not by anything else. No one is to blame for this, no man, no spirit, no body, nothing but my own carelessness.“  We must allow these words to penetrate our hearts to root out all the excuses we put forward in order to remain in a place of mediocrity.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:16 Anthony: Congratulations Fr David!
 
00:17:24 CMoran: Question: What is Prelest? I off-topic--If not appropriate, please ignore the question.
 
00:17:53 CMoran: Sorry..."IF"
 
00:17:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I missed what you said Father  Where are you assigned?
 
00:18:02 Mark Kelly: Prelest is like a spiritual illusion of ones self.
 
00:18:18 Edward Kleinguetl: SS Peter & Paul in Duquesne, PA
 
00:18:20 Eric Ewanco: Prelast is Spiritual deception, I'm sure Father can elaorate
 
00:21:14 Mark Kelly: Prelest, in the extreme, is seeing one’s self as a prophet or spiritual guide or some exulted person. In common terms it is something we all must deal with. Spiritually deceiving ourselves.
 
00:53:01 Edward Kleinguetl: A priest once told me in confession that "no reformer ever had bitterness in his heart."
 
00:53:33 Edward Kleinguetl: And I have to remind myself of that frequently.
 
00:55:35 Marco da Vinha: What you say, Father, reminds me both of St. Nektarios - who carried out penance for his seminarians faults - as well as St. Bartholomew of Braga - who, as an archbishop, would, on occasion, do penance for his priests' sins.
 
00:57:14 Ambrose Little, OP: There’s also the observation you (Father) have mentioned many times, which is the challenge of clinging to one's own judgment being perhaps one of the most difficult failures in humility to overcome. It’s always worth meditating on the likely possibility that our own judgment may be in error or, at the very least, that our interpretation of another's words and actions may be in error. (Not talking about glaring and established moral failures like the abuse scandals, but the more common criticisms that this or that pastor is not saying what we’d have them say.)
 
00:58:37 Anthony: Being one who thinks a LOT - thinking and ruminating too much is not healthy.  Prayer is where the goodness and healing is (at the very least, it's an emotional outlet to get rid of the thoughts), but the devil's fog machine blinds us to its availability.  My parish priest said something in a homily like: we often make our own crosses and they are too heavy; the cross God makes for us is better and easier for us.
 
01:02:03 Marco da Vinha: @Anthony, I think Dostoevsky put it best in Notes from the Underground when the narrator says "To think too much is a disease." I have found that to be very much the case in my own life
 
01:09:32 Lee Graham: We are all guilty
 
01:09:38 Marco da Vinha: Father, is the kind of Confession that the Fathers mention different than the sacrament of Penance as we understand it now in the West? Was this Confession that took place within the elder/disciple relationship? The Fathers tell us to reveal our inner thoughts, our inner wounds in Confession, yet we are brought up in the West with the "just state kind and number" approach to Confession. Many times we don't give the priest much context, and we receive no advice either about our vices, even when the same priest here's our confessions on a regular basis.
 
01:10:09 Babington (or Babi): It and your comments are very helpful. Thank you.
 
01:16:00 Bridget McGinley: Father can the evil one enter the confessional and disturb either the priest or the penitent during the confession?
 
01:19:34 CMoran: Thank you Father! And thank you everyone!
 
01:19:43 Marco da Vinha: Thank you Father! Goodnight!
 
01:20:37 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father! Such a grace!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VIII

We continued our reading of Step 4 from the Ladder of Divine Ascent on Obedience and the spirit with which it is practiced. What one begins to see in the writings of the Fathers is that obedience is not slavishness that destroys the personality or the will of the other. It arises out of a relationship; first and foremost the relationship between the Father and the Son that brought about our salvation; wherein Christ through the Spirit of love became obedient even unto death on the cross. Obedience within this world and obedience to one’s spiritual father is rooted in a similar relationship of mutual love. Spiritual father and son must be well disposed to each other in order that what is given and what is received is done so in love. Only then will bear fruit and only then will it bring a kind of invincible joy. To live in obedience is to find freedom; freedom from fear and anxiety, freedom from the darkness that sin brings to us.  Through obedience we always have someone to guide us back to the narrow way, one who shows us the light that allows us to move forward. Let us pray through Saint John Climacus that God would cultivate this great virtue within our hearts. 
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:47 FrDavid Abernethy: page 83, para 45
 
00:28:54 Daniel Allen: The blog “Glory to God for all things” had a great article on this titled “saving knowledge and blessed ignorance”. What we don’t know can be more important than what we know, and what we know is much less than we like to think.
 
00:31:02 Anthony: On one hand, I think he's right.  On the other hand, does one have a responsibility to try and share specialized knowledge for guidance to a perceived good or guidance away from a bad thing - but with discretion in how you propose the idea?
 
00:41:54 Rachel: That is extremely rare but so very beautiful.
 
00:47:26 Bridget McGinley: How does one reconcile in practice the advice in the Psalms and other Biblical verses like “ It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man” with the virtue of obedience and trust in a confessor/elder? Especially if there have been grave misunderstandings in the past.
 
00:56:52 Daniel Allen: St. Ambrose to St. Monica: ““God’s time will come,” the bishop reassured her, but she was so persistent he finally urged, “Go now, I beg you. It is not possible that the son of so many tears should perish.””
 
00:57:49 Debra: ❤️
 
01:04:25 Rachel: lol
 
01:08:31 Ambrose Little: depends on who the sub is
 
01:08:41 Debra: 😁
 
01:11:38 Ren Witter: This is so true! Even in my dreams, I find myself asking: what would my spiritual father think of this or that behavior? It becomes such a deeply established way of thinking. Its really beautiful, and a blessing. Another reason that the habit of exposing one's thoughts to a Father is so good - knowing that you will tell him everything, you become more careful with what you allow yourself to do. Such wise advice
01:13:23 Debra: So my biggest take away is of spiritual maturity...but does that maturity come *from* obedience; or does the obedience need to come first to gain that spiritual maturity
 
Like the monk that was willing to accept years of penance...that would take spiritual maturity...but if he had that, he wouldn't have needed the penance...or am I missing something?
 
01:13:58 Debra: Yes, exactly
 
01:14:00 Debra: lol
 
01:14:42 Ambrose Little: Wise words from Bob: "baby steps"
 
01:16:18 Debra: Thank you that's a deeper take away
 
01:18:25 Babington (or Babi): Hope to contribute someday. Thank you very much. God bless you all. 🙏🏼🤍
 
01:20:29 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much for all that you do Ren!
 
01:21:07 Ambrose Little: the "non-recluse” lol that's awesome
 
01:21:19 Ren Witter: Yes!! I just saw that. Hahah. Amazing
 
01:21:38 Br Theophan the non-recluse: It’s been the most consistent joke since my investiture last weekend🤣
 
01:22:09 Carol Nypaver: Hooray!
 
01:22:31 Sheila Applegate: Congratulations!
 
01:22:46 Rachel: Bro Theophan is in Cali? Yay =)
 
01:23:21 Br Theophan the non-recluse: 2.5 hours north of San Fran!
 
01:23:23 CMoran: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:27 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:30 Debra: Thank you!
 
01:23:31 Rachel: Sacramento here
 
01:23:33 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:23:39 Bonnie Lewis: Bye all!
 
01:23:41 Rachel: Goodnoght Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part II

We continued to listen to the Father‘s counsel on avoiding relationships or circumstances that can bring us spiritual harm. Such thought is not guided by a lack of love or charity or hospitality; rather it is rooted in an understanding that we are first to love the Lord our God with all of our mind, soul, heart, and strength. It is only having our love ordered and directed toward Him that our love of the things and and people within the world can be rightly ordered. We were given one example after another of how necessary it is to discern when relationships are drawing us away from God or the ways that the devil can use us through our negligence to harm others spiritually. We don’t engage in the spiritual battle in a state of isolation. Nor do we seek to live the life of virtue simply for ourselves. Love demands that we be attentive to loving God above all things in order that we might draw all toward Christ. 
Such simplicity and clarity in the way that one views the world and oneself, creates the purity of heart that is necessary to discern the path and the will of God.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:29:57 Anthony: This is how I learned there was something wrong with some Catholic commentators.  They left me agitated about the legal aspect of the Faith....am I searching myself well enough, did I do this good enough? etc.  Jansenism
 
00:30:31 Anthony: on the church
 
00:30:37 Anthony: correcting the Novus ordo
 
00:30:42 Anthony: noveau telogie
 
00:32:36 Emma C: Where do we see the line between judging others vs judging their actions to know who to avoid?
 
00:35:42 Kevin Clay: I think we need to see that we can be that “foolish and thoughtless friend” to ourselves and not just others. We can be unwise, greedy, quarrelsome, arrogant, etc. We need to separate ourselves from our passions and the things that stir the passions.
 
00:44:37 Rachel: I was wondering about what you just mentioned. About being detached from ego. I was told recently to " Be at peace." in relation to something I did not realize was a distraction. At first, it made me wonder and uncomfortable. Since if I am not at peace, then something of what I spoke of must not be of God. It reminded me instantly of what a holy and wise priest told me. He said, not to speculate over matters. and it was clear, that the only thing needed was to stay in the moment with Our Lord.
 
00:45:35 Rachel: That these distractions are a result of idle distractions,no matter how good they appear. That God will take care of each moment and situation in His good Providence.
 
00:50:27 Debra: St. Bonaventure has a beautiful post-Communion prayer
 
https://tinyurl.com/4de5cj7z
 
00:50:54 Anthony: Thinking of just yourself and God:  In "A Man for All Seasons," St. Thomas More tries to break Richard Rich from avarice by telling him of the honor he would have as a mere teacher before God as his audience.  Had Richard Rich followed this advice, he would have avoided his moral downfall later on, and maybe even in his saving his soul, much of England would have been spared some of the violence of the 1500s. "Acquire a spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved." ~ St. Seraphim of Sarov
 
00:58:18 carolnypaver: If he had just said “no” the people would have wondered if the “brigand” would have been released IF ONLY the Elder had asked.  The Elder removed all doubt.
 
01:03:03 Rachel: I left a comment above about something you addressed. It seems his current reading ties into the discipline it takes to be detached not only from the things of this world but from oneself as well. Since our nous can be darkened, idle curiosities and distractions can wreak havoc in one's own life and those around them. Since the person given to these distractions will act from that skewed vision instead of the pure place of ordering everything to God and His good will alone
 
01:18:14 Rachel: You mentioned that purity in our day will be like the martyrs, because of the way the world is..in a beautiful homily our priest once gave, he mentioned St. Catherine of Siena. How she felt desperately that our Lord had left her in grave temptations. Yetm he reassured her that not only had he not left her but that she was more pleasing to him.
 
01:18:40 Rachel: So, it seems that fighting to stay with our Lord wont always feel rosy.
 
01:19:15 Ambrose Little: Advertising is not like in the old days. Moby Dick was a 900 page advert for the whaling industry. 😄
 
01:19:19 Anthony: The images themselves are very important in a post-rational environment when the senses and memory are wounded.  The Serbian Orthodox Church on YouTube has a 7 part series on the Icon and the contrast of iconic images versus the images that assault us.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thatis a wonderful series
 
01:22:08 Ren Witter: paypal.me/philokaliaministries
 
01:23:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you REn
 
01:24:41 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 
01:24:47 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! (And Ren 😎)
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VII

Reading the Fathers takes us to the very heart of the gospel and in doing so they pull us out of our comfort zone. Obedience is the true path to freedom. But freedom comes at a cost and perfect freedom comes through self-sacrificing love. It is cruciform. All that we were presented with this evening made it very clear that our life is to be a deep immersion in the Paschal Mystery; that is, a profound dying and rising. We are dying to self and sin and rising to new life in Christ. This is the path to salvation and St. John tells us that to turned away from the obedience of Christ, to turn away from the mortification of reason,  judgment and self-will, is to turn away from the Love that has saved us. Every time we receive the Holy Eucharist we say, “Amen”, so be it. We say, “Let this be the reality in my life. Let me be conformed to Christ in self- emptying and obedient love. To hold on to our will, to hold on to our self-centeredness makes it impossible for us both to receive and give love. May God open our eyes that we may see the truth of this and follow the way that Christ has set before us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82 paragraph 39
 
00:13:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82
 
00:16:04 Fr. Miron Jr.: no
 
00:31:35 renwitter: I really appreciate that he mentions the manual labor even in this small paragraph about the prison. Helpful to remember that during a time of repentance - of fasting and deep prayer - the Fathers themselves recommended some kind of small work to help the heart along, and allow the stillness to come. Making prayer ropes works great too ;-)
 
00:32:27 Debra: And you make beautiful prayer ropes

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part V and Hypothesis XXIII, Part I

Reading the Fathers often pierces the heart and changes our perspective upon life and our perception of reality itself. We continued with our reading of the fathers’ exhortation not to engage those who can bring harm to us in the spiritual life. This is often troublesome to modern sensibilities. The call to evangelize draws us out to engage the world. But what are we to give if we simply allow ourselves to be drawn back into the slavery of sin? We have to radically abandon our lives to Christ, conform our minds and hearts to His, and seek to live in obedience to His Will before we can bear witness to others. It is often said you cannot give what you do not have and the Fathers understood this in the fullest measure. We are capable of living a life of religion on the surface; of becoming comfortable with mediocrity and a religion of our own creation. Sometimes we do reduce our faith to a psychological construct and in this sense the modern critique of religion is on point. We have to be ever discerning of the deep attachment that we have to sin, to the things that lead to sin.  We must not live under the illusion that we are impervious to the power of the passions or temptation. We must be discerning, discriminating, in regards to everything that we experience within this world to determine whether or not it is from God. St Paul once said “we take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ.”This could be said of every relationship, every circumstance, we experience within this world. All things must be brought into the full light of the Truth.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 195 letter K
 
00:30:07 Bridget McGinley: St Cyril of Alexandria wrote "Every creature loves his kind therefore those with vices like those with similar vices". I feel like this means we must know our vices well so that we know who we will be attracted to and could be stumbling blocks. "Holy peace is not found here" he added.  Yes, Facebook is very dangerous and social media is very dangerous. I need to take this advice seriously.
 
00:34:21 Anthony: I just realized, the evil eye - mal'occhio - is about envy.  It's a serious thing, for both Christians and pagans.
 
00:35:27 Carol: Envy is a spirit of hades. It battles unceasingly against righteousness and God...envy never stops, the spirit of hades envies all men for all things... elder Thaddeus.
 
00:41:32 Bridget McGinley: Crushing pressure to be inside the "wokeness"
 
00:42:07 Eric Williams: In 1931, Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen wrote the following essay:
 
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance-it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
 
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
 
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”
 
00:43:48 Carol Nypaver: Amen!  Venerable Archbishop Fulton John Sheen, pray for us!
 
00:54:05 Carol: it seems like this is a common message in the church as you said, and even the confessional
 
01:01:05 Anthony: Trauma reminds me of the story about the alcoholic monk who became alcoholic after seeing his village massacred when he was a child.
 
01:01:58 Paul Grazal: +1 On The Eight Vices manuscript Father.  Thank You.
 
01:20:13 sue and mark: it is good to wrestle with it
 
01:21:08 Emma C: When we are told to turn away from people who are stumbling blocks for us in the spiritual life, how do we evangelize others if we turn away from everyone who isn't helping us grow spiritually?
 
01:24:14 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VI

Such a beautiful image is presented to us of the life obedience in a few paragraphs. St. John finds himself wrapped in conversation with one of the elderly fathers. He is asked if he has embraced the life that God has made possible for him. The Holy Spirit has descended upon him with the dew of purity, not unlike that of the blessed Virgin Mary, and the Most High has overshadowed him with patience, the very patience of Christ. 
This is the grace that has been given to us all. Thus St. John is asked by the elder if his life is reflective of that reality. Has he bound himself with a towel of obedience, making himself the slave and the servant of the members of his community, willing to embrace every self- abasement? Does he guard his heart strictly and restrain the mind through the ascetical life and by humbling the body? In the midst of all of his work does he maintain stillness of heart? Does he curb his tongue that rages to leap into arguments and unceasingly wrestle with this tyrant? Does he fix his mind to the image of obedience and humility on the Cross, allowing it to shape how he embraces mockery, abuse, and ridicule? Has he cast off his will as though it is a garment of shame? Does he still his mind or let it become overly busy with the concerns of the things of the world? Is he willing to drink derision at every hour in order to protect charity? Is it more valuable for him to preserve love and unity with his brothers than it is to be treated with respect and kindness? Saint John is moved by the old monks exhortation and so gives true honor to blessed obedience. 
Do we in our day-to-day life experience the fruit of true obedience, especially when it comes to our worship of God? Are we able to collect all of our thoughts and desires, every movement of the mind and the soul and summon them to cry out to God “O come, let us worship and fall down before Christ, our king and our God.”True obedience leads to true freedom. It gives us the capacity to love and give ourselves in love without impediment.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:12:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 79: “Again about the steward”
 
00:14:16 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father!  It’s still in the 100’s in San Antonio
 
00:18:48 Mark Cummings: Is that a kalimavkion?
 
00:26:16 Rachel: LOL!!
 
00:37:36 Anthony: So does "I think therefore I am" actually open us up to a world of hurt, drowning in speculation and fanciful thoughts, making us prey to demons if we take it as a life or cultural motto?
 
00:48:06 Rachel: Can you speak about applying this teaching where one's work environment, and the people one works with do not share the same goal or, at least do not act like it? I am thinking of a situation like Blessed Paul Parazzo.
 
00:48:25 Bridget McGinley: Oh that is a hard saying "curb your tongue" when you work predominately with females. True sacrifice to hold the tongue and not let one's face show emotion.
 
00:48:41 Rachel: yes!
 
00:50:49 Rachel: will send a good link
 
00:51:05 Liz: Sorry, which movie?
 
00:51:17 iPad (10)maureen: Man Of God
 
00:51:18 Carol Nypaver: Man of God
 
00:51:23 Kevin Clay: https://vimeo.com/675624334
 
00:51:28 Liz: Thank you : )!
 
00:51:41 iPad (10)maureen: Good luck finding a movie
 
00:51:49 Kevin Clay: That link is the full movie on Vimeo
 
00:52:12 Kevin Clay: Free
 
00:52:18 Edward Kleinguetl: Almost every platform and the DVD is also available.
 
00:52:22 Liz: Oh wow, great!
 
00:52:42 Edward Kleinguetl: The icon behind me is St. Nektarios of Aegina.
 
00:53:32 Rachel: https://youtu.be/1Y9bro7fmyU
 
00:55:11 Liz: Thanks for sharing!
 
01:07:22 Bridget McGinley: I am reading the Rule of the Benedictine Oblate. So many of these rules are discussed and explained in there also. It is so beautiful how caring all the disciplines were. There is such a profound love behind them when one knows the theology behind it.
 
01:10:42 Rachel: St Seraphim of Serov!?
 
01:12:13 Art: It was in the article:
https://pemptousia.com/2016/06/prayer-for-beginners/
 
01:15:19 Anthony: His words are literally part of the Trisagion prayer prior to Liturgy.  I wonder if the call to bow before Christ our King and God was incorporated because of the importance of this book in spirituality.
 
01:17:41 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Most folks pray like Puritans - no movement ever~!
 
01:18:34 Rachel: Thank you Father
 
01:18:40 CMoran: Thank you so much, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part IV

We continued along the central theme of Hypothesis 22 and those that follow - we are to avoid entering into the things of the world and so lose what is most life-giving. 
The monk becomes a very powerful example of this danger because in his response to God’s call he leaves everything within the world in order to be wholly given over to God; to trust fully in God’s providence, to pray without ceasing and to embrace a life of modification.  It is to embrace the angelic life. In contrast to fallen angels, these men set aside all that is worldly in order to be fixed in mind and body completely on the Kingdom. Their whole life becomes a sacrifice of praise. 
To move away from this, becoming immersed once again in the things of this world is to become like a corpse. If one turns away from the source of life and salvation and turns to that which does not endure, then he himself will be reduced to nothing - to ashes. To understand this we have to have the faith to see the love and the life that God has given us in His Son. We must be able to see how precious it is; that it is the pearl of great price that we should be willing to sacrifice all to possess. 
Anything less, any different vision of life immediately opens the door for us to seek fulfillment and hope in the things of this world. If we do not value God above all things then we will misdirect that desire which is at the very heart of our being. When this happens we cease to be human beings.  We lose sight of our own dignity and the dignity of others. We will become like salt that has lost its saltness, as Jesus describes, and that has no worth.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192,
 
00:35:07 Daniel Allen: Is there a difference between conversing with people and conversing with “worldly” people in this? Specifically, I think of saints meeting with many people every day to give them counsel or just to listen to them? Saints such as St. Seraphim of Sarov or (fictional) the monk Zosimov from the Brothers Karamasov? Is it that they purified their hearts and attained to true humility before then speaking with people? Or again is it that the issue is speaking with people about trivial or frivolous things that dissipate the monk?
 
00:36:34 Edward Kleinguetl: Those who become spiritual fathers do not seek to become one. Many spend many years (25+) in prayer and solitude before they may be requested to be a spiritual father and confessor.
 
00:37:24 Edward Kleinguetl: They are well versed in Sacred Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers.  They do not share their own opinion. All advice is grounded in Scriptures and the Fathers.
 
00:45:27 Anthony: On the motions within the heart and relating to other people in wise or unwise interactions.  I think we have a mix of ignorance and vice in the interior life that lead us astray.  Imagine that your life is like a garden. You planted pepper seeds, but you have never seen pepper seedlings.  And, a wild animal enters in and sheds weed seeds and you don't realize it.  So, when the seedlings come up, you are not exactly sure what is a pepper and what is not. Sometimes you only gradually come to awareness on what is a good plant and a good fruit and what is not.  You look at pictures or have an experienced friend to teach you about the garden.  And that year, you miss the mark on a good garden, you get some fruit but not optimal.  But, you get experience for the next growing season, if you pay attention and learn from your mistakes.  Keep trying, and being patient and prune and weed as you realize you need to. :-)
 
00:57:36 Bridget McGinley: I think that news came out from the Pope and YES much needed !
 
00:58:16 Anthony: Friendship can be like alcohol.  Very valuable, but at the right times and in the right quantities.  We can misuse friendship to drown out our real needs.
 
01:03:10 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Met. Anthony Bloom - churchianity vs Christianity
 
01:03:15 Kevin Clay: Churchianity vs. Christianity by Met. Anthony Bloom
 
01:05:26 Rachel: This reading reminds me of St. Christina the Astonishing. Apparently the stench of the people in the church woke her from a coma so serious she was put into a coffin and the community was attending her funeral. And I think od St. Catherine of Sienna being able to smell the stench of sin in some...this always makes me wonder if I stinketh to others and if so, what can I do to have my prayers rise as incense.. :/
 
01:08:06 Carol: white washed tombs
 
01:12:42 carolnypaver: How do we NOT become “corpses” when we totally withdraw from the people in our lives? Don’t we become “dead” to them? Is that good for their souls?
 
01:18:03 Daniel Allen: Is it fair to take this one step further and say that the monk or Christian who follows this advice or path, then becomes salt to others who have no salt and become a means of salvation for those around us? A broader and larger connectedness, where the strengthening of one part aids the weaker parts of the body. A call to be salt to the world, and that one isn’t simply seeking a personal salvation but that one would seek to acquire this salt from God for the sake of others as well?
 
01:18:23 Rachel: Once, on the way to Mass, I ran into a homeless person who was thirsty. The young man was in a wheel chair, and when I tried to approach him, he begged me not to approach him. There was a very strong and unpleasant odor coming from him. I approached anyway and he told me, please, not to touch him or come closer as his legs were being eaten away by maggots. He lifted his gown and it is true, he was being eaten alive. I asked him why, if he wanted to go to the hospital and he declined. Said he had just been kicked out of the hospital. So I asked him if he wants a priest. I will get a priest. He said yes, to pray and he allowed me to give him my scapular as I thought he was close to death by the smell. He wold not allow me to put the scapular on but promised he would. I went to Mass which had already begun. I stopped the first priest I know, and told him what had happened. Asked him to please go see him immediately. He pulled back and told me that priest so and so deals with things like that. While
 
01:20:13 Rachel: While I cannot judge the priest, this, is an exactly  example of letting the moment pass by when we, when I, am called to do something that our Lord asks.
 
01:20:29 Bridget McGinley: Love the story Rachel thanks for sharing
 
01:21:22 Rachel: When I went back to check on him, the young man was gone.
 
01:25:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:29 Jack: thanks father whats the hat called
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part V

We continued our discussion of Step 4 on Obedience. As deeply challenging as St John’s teachings are and as jarring as the examples of monks being tested can be, a light begins to shine through to the dark places of our minds that resist allowing ourselves to be conformed to the obedience of Christ. 
Obedience as well as Love is cruciform. It involves a dying to self, self-will, and vanity in order that true meekness, love, and freedom might emerge. 
The trials that the monks endured were not something meant to break down their personality or to crush them and throw them into despair. Rather, their shepherd, in imitation of Christ, sought only to purify their hearts and perfect their virtue. They entered into the monastic life with a clear understanding of its asceticism. It is distinctively Christian. All that they do, every aspect of their life is meant to direct them to Christ and conform them to His image; to let His love bloom within their hearts. 
It turns out that the truest and straightest path to freedom is obedience. Our confidence in this reality comes not from our own understanding but from what we see in Christ himself.  By being obedient to His Father in love salvation comes to the world.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 76 para 27
 
00:09:45 FrDavid Abernethy: about time
 
00:29:32 Carol: do you see any parallels to this outside of the monastery?
 
00:35:44 Anthony: Religious persons with office of shepherd who act unjustly, without really caring for souls but being subject to vices, spreads poison to anyone who experienced them, damaging trust for the person to offer in future.  Willingness to obey must then carefully be built up - by the person whose trust was damaged.
 
00:36:25 Art: Just a comment: This calls to mind the soldier attached to country, Corps, comrades, who is prepared to accomplish the mission, even a suicide mission, at the price of his blood.  Death before dishonor is a common saying.
 
00:38:21 Anthony: of compegne
 
00:44:11 Ren: This teaching is initially very difficult to handle - that is, the idea of someone who is good and fruitful being dishonored for the sake of virtue and, ultimately, for the sake of Christ. However, I believe this is similiar to what you often say about asceticism (how it is accepted in every area of life but the spiritual): Purification by dishonor/humbling is something we accept when it comes to sports, the military, education, elite level performance/fine arts, etc… and in these areas we accept that the dishonor shown to the aspirant is given in order to refine, test, and perfect their dedication and love. The exact same thing is happening here, as Climacus says “A soul attached to the shepherd with love and faith for Christ’s sake.” In the end, that is the only goal of the monk - union with Christ.
 
00:53:14 Carol: Hebrews 12:6  And this all speaks to the love and providence of God, and the way we are called to respond to suffering.
 
00:54:40 Ashley Kaschl: I agree with Father. I think we cheapen something when we make it easy to obtain. Two quotes come to mind:
 
“Do not claim to have acquired virtue unless you have suffered affliction, for without affliction virtue has not been tested.” -St. Mark the Ascetic
 
“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty. I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.” -Teddy Roosevelt
 
00:56:13 Debra: Thanks for sharing those, Ashley
 
01:00:57 Babington (or Babi): I haven’t understood the issue with that part of the Lord’s Prayer since Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness where He was then tempted, obviously with His Father’s permission, before beginning His public ministry.
 
01:09:16 Anthony: I just saw a short video of former Mike Tyson telling two young men that the 3 years he spent in prison were the best of his life, because he was given deep peace. One young man challenged him how could this be, when there was a time Tyson earned millions for one fight.  Tyson replied that God may give us what we ask for to show us we can't handle what we want.  And the Tyson in this video was calm and peaceful, unlike his  life as a star, really sounding like a Christian.
 
01:09:36 Anthony: former boxer - sorry
 
01:10:57 Ren: “Bless you prison, bless you for being in my life. For there, lying upon the rotting prison straw, I came to realize that the object of life is not prosperity as we are made to believe, but the maturity of the human soul.”
 
01:11:55 Anthony: Don King?
 
01:12:32 Ren: The full quote is extraordinary. Something to frame.
 
01:13:36 Sheila Applegate: This ----> Tyson replied that God may give us what we ask for to show us we can't handle what we want.
 
01:16:08 Ren: It was granted to me to carry away from my prison years on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxication of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel.
 
In the surfeit of power I was a murderer and an oppressor.
 
In my most evil moments I was convinced that I was doing good, and I was well supplied with systematic arguments. It was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either—but right through every human heart—and through all human hearts. . . .
 
That is why I turn back to the years of my imprisonment and say, sometimes to the astonishment of those about me: “Bless you, prison!”
 
I . . . have served enough time there. I nourished my soul there, and I say without hesitation: “Bless you, prison, for having been in my life!”
 
—Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
 
01:17:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:17:26 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father for this important session.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part III

Both an inspiring and challenging section from the Evergetinos this evening!  The Fathers speak to us about the monastic life and its clear focus; a clarity that perhaps we have lost in more recent times. The monk lives for God, to seek God, to listen to God, and to pray. This he does as part of the Body of Christ, the Church, for the salvation of others. And yet we are shown how easy it is to cast off that “sweet yoke” of the Lord where He no longer has authority over us. Even a monk would gravitate away from what is described as the “Divine Wheat” that is drenched by the heavy rain of heavenly life bestowing Spirit. We leave peace and converse with God simply to be distracted by fleshly realities. We choose what is of passing and lesser value and let the divine slip through our fingers. 
The monks show us that we are to guard the heart;  in particular by guarding our words and what we listen to. We must always seek to make our speech edifying, seasoning our words with Divine salt so as to preserve the purity of heart in the others as well as in ourselves. We must not listen to unprofitable words but flee the situation where we are tempted. No one should be so deluded so as to think that we can expose ourselves to angry, hostile, or wicked words and not become wicked ourselves. All such things remain lodged in the memory, imagination and heart. Our relationship with God must be precious in our eyes even if this means avoiding those who are acquisitive or licentious. Rather we must gravitate to the righteous man who through his words and deeds will draw us closer to God. 
Do we want to be saved? This is the most powerful question of the night. It is a humbling thing to acknowledge our poverty of spirit and  so we can develop a resistance to God’s call to draw close to him. One may not want to be saved or find it too humiliating and so cling to a false self image. May God preserve us from such delusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:29 FrDavid Abernethy: page 190
 
00:11:37 FrDavid Abernethy: last paragraph
 
00:33:50 Anthony: In a way, this is an example of giving up a lesser good (awareness of others, or a form of fellowship) for the benefit of achieving a greater good?
 
00:36:09 maureencunningham: It seems like the early chuch was aware of demons
 
00:36:21 Jos: it gets even worse when it's about politics and religion
 
00:36:31 maureencunningham: It seems the America church has learned to adjust to them
 
00:36:58 maureencunningham: The early church called them demons
 
00:39:21 Paul Grazal: You wonder what engagement he had that made him think that.  I can think of a few that ive had that i should have avoided
 
00:40:58 Paul Grazal: Yes Thank You
 
00:41:38 Rachel Pineda: Tubes of paint... ,and books..
 
00:45:54 Anthony: Too much buying and selling and we don't know how to "be" but only to become; thus Americans are great in markets and inventions, but we neglect basic metaphysics about life, and we are now existing as several coexisting lost generations.
 
00:49:08 Lee Graham: We are entertaining ourselves to death
 
00:49:36 Carol: books and legos
 
00:50:41 Anthony: Or "The Great Wall" in 3D
 
00:57:20 Anthony: St. John of Damascus: "whether I will or not, O Lord, save me - quick, quick - for I perish."  Paraphrase from the Melkite Publicans Prayer Book.
 
00:59:37 maureencunningham: is it like piano it comes with much practice before one can play Bach
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Like the Pharisee and the publican, the delusion of the holy person vs the truth of the sinner
 
01:07:51 Anthony: I think it has something to do with an urge which has good roots: "It is not good for man to be alone."  This is a good thing, but out of order.
 
01:09:11 Daniel Allen: The language of God is silence is something I thought about recently and why silence? And because it’s the silence that allows Him to be heard, like the gentle breeze that Elijah heard. He doesn’t replace our voice, He waits to be heard.
 
01:12:00 Debra: I'm a scheduled Adorer, at my parish. And I really struggle with just sitting in silence. I feel like I should be praying a rosary, or reading about the saints...doing something
How can I develop the practice of sitting still? My brain is always racing through stuff
 
01:14:04 Paul Fifer: I think  Holy Hours were set to an Hour because it takes about 20 minutes to quiet our minds and hearts and enter into the Silence.
 
01:15:11 Debra: Paul: At least 20 minutes
 
01:16:06 Jos: is it advisable to think about God in the abstract or should we focus on Jesus as God to stay out of delusions in the face of the really mysterious idea of God?
 
01:20:27 Bridget McGinley: Thank you for that explanation Father.
 
01:21:04 Anthony: I just finished it.  It's amazing, drawing on the Greek fathers so sounds very orthodox
 
01:22:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent- Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part IV

Tonight we continued with St. John’s Step on Obedience. We are presented with an image that may be unfamiliar to us. Obedience is not presented as something that is crushing to the human spirit. It can be humiliating - in the sense that it seems to drive out from the soul and the heart all vestige of arrogance, fierceness, and hostility towards others. Yet, what emerges from this exercise of faith is conformity to Christ. When it is rooted in a true love for one’s shepherd, one’s Elder, then a kind of voluntary innocence begins to emerge; a childlike trust in the Elder that prevents a person from speculating about his motives or thinking that he is being driven by xmalice. 
When we know that we are being guided by love then we are able to embrace even the most challenging of things. Obedience becomes are very food; something nourishing as it was for Christ himself. When perfected, it can bring about not only personal transformation but the transformation of every relationship that exists within our lives. When we let go of all machinations and all forms of calculation and seek simply to love and give ourselves in love -  peace and freedom emerge. We should speak of obedience as something that ultimately brings joy. Indeed, we should see all the virtues as doing exactly that – bringing us into the joy of the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:10:10 Art: In case anyone is interested.
 
00:10:16 Art: Upcoming online course:
 
THE WAY OF THE PILGRIM: Entering Into the Jesus Prayer
Instructor:  Very Rev. Stephen Freeman
Event Description
"Pray without ceasing." —1 Thessalonians 5:17
What is prayer, and how does one learn how to pray? In this talk, journey with Fr. Stephen Freeman and a pilgrim in 19th-century Russia to explore the meaning of prayer in our lives.
Event Details
https://instituteofcatholicculture.org/events/the-way-of-the-pilgrim   
Tuesday, August 23
Pre-Class Discussion:  7:30 PM EST
Lecture:  8:00 PM EST
Registration is required
 
00:12:03 Fr. Miron Jr.: yep!
 
00:12:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 73, para 20
 
00:31:49 maureencunningham: The task was a lie or was he and Epicepic ?
 
00:39:55 Anthony: Vocation is seen as a job, matching personal characteristics to charisms of a community of the need to have clergy and religious
 
00:45:46 Debra: Would he have been allowed to receive Eucharist...attend Mass?
 
00:46:21 Bridget McGinley: The journey of the spiritual life in such a short paragraph. Beautifully spoken and written. We go through the same journey over a lifetime.
 
00:47:24 Bridget McGinley: It is easy to see that God should reward us for the little we do instead of being humble and low at the gift.
 
00:49:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father.  That was going to be my question, that he would be filled with sadness.  And yet, his life ended in a joyful death.
 
00:55:19 Anthony: Is this simple character the "Holy Fool"?  Or is that something else?
 
00:57:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Can you elaborate on "voluntary innocence” in this context?
 
01:02:20 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe also it is "take no thought for tomorrow, what you shall eat, or what you shall wear.." That is also a kind of. innocence--simply trusting that God will provide.
 
01:03:01 Liz: In some Communities, were the Superior (or other brothers) does similar or more humilliating actions out of truly malice, can it also be taken as an instructive tool by the one who is suffering it unjustly, just out of the evil will of another one? Maybe this is also related with the voluntary innocence, without second-guessings.  Can this be applied in the secular life? To which extent can we distinguish it from the line of the "human dignity"?....
 
01:03:33 Carol: "real joy, which is paradisal innocence and attachment to God through the whole splendor of being alive." Olivier clement
 
01:08:33 Anthony: The monastic literature refers to beginning in community life before solitary life as the best way to live.  Natural law leads to the valuable community of family life.  In our day, there are so many single people, by choice or by circumstance, from age 18 or sadly even earlier.  Our age appears to be an aberration.  Do you have spiritual advice for so many solitaries thrust into solitary life, a period of being neither monastic nor familial?
 
01:14:44 maureencunningham: Thank You
 
01:15:36 carolnypaver: Song of Tears?
 
01:16:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! Great session!!
 
01:17:04 Liz: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part II

We picked up this evening with our reading of the very challenging Hypothesis 22: the Fathers’ teaching to avoid the world and worldly relations. However, we must understand that when they speak of the world they speak of those things or relationships that are driven more by the passions than by grace and the love of God. 
Central to this is having a rightly ordered love that is focused upon Christ. All things must begin and end with Him and all things are judged in light of the Love of the Kingdom. This Love must become the lens through which we view all things, most especially our own thoughts and desires. What is it - at this moment - that is going to be pleasing to God or fulfill our obedience to our elder? Are we doing things in subtle ways simply to please ourselves; always seeking to form and fashion our own identity and to be the source of meaning for ourselves and our lives? 
For a Christian living in the world to “stay in one’s cell“ means to keep watch over my inner self, my own heart. This is why the Fathers put forward as an essential practice unceasing prayer, and particular the Jesus Prayer. It is only by constantly calling out to God that we are given the strength and the grace to love God and to love others in the way He desires for us. We are called to be Christ for one another and so our love and our actions must be Christlike. To be anything otherwise is to strip the gospel of its power to make ourselves unrecognizable as those who have been made sons and daughters of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:12 carolnypaver: Congratulations!🥳
 
00:18:31 Debra: What are we congratulating? I came in late
 
00:18:50 carolnypaver: 500 podcasts for Fr. David!
 
00:19:09 Ambrose Little, OP: remarkable progress. how did we get to p188?? 🙂
 
00:20:07 Debra: Oh, wow! Thanks Carolyn!
 
00:32:55 Anthony: Does this mean that even as being a contemplative is a vocation, staying in a city to minister must be a specific vocatiom?
 
00:59:00 Rachel: I love that song!
 
01:01:29 Annie Karto: So true about doing more than what God asks, especially in ministry
 
01:05:15 Erick Chastain: Stop being friends as much as possible with worldly people. It will help everything tremendously. Having done this it helps remove many occasions of sin.
 
01:10:42 Carol Nypaver: It’s difficult to remember, as parents, that the goal of parenting is not that our children love us but to raise them to be citizens of Heaven, which  sometimes causes them to hate us.
 
01:11:19 Rachel: Thank you Carol!
 
01:12:04 Erick Chastain: I read it as saying we should flee from the world as much as possible, including worldly people, to protect ourselves from the flaring of the passions
 
01:13:04 Erick Chastain: but without abandoning our responsibilities if we are not a monk
 
01:19:59 John White: The author of The Imitation of Christ paraphrased the Roman philosopher/playwright Seneca "As often as I have been among men, I have returned home a lesser man"
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Challenge to connect with people if we always are trying to be aloof.
 
01:20:11 iPad (10)maureen: I think the monk you met You spotted Joy, It Joy we give up things
 
01:23:31 iPad (10)maureen: I say the. Jesus prayer when something I do not like  is on TV
 
01:23:40 Ambrose Little, OP: You could try time boxing. Like “I'll watch an hour with you" or something and/or “just this show on this day" or similar.
 
01:24:39 Erick Chastain: that's a great suggestion Ambrose!
 
01:30:13 Annie Karto: What beautiful teaching Fr. Thank you
 
01:31:32 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part III

We picked up this evening once again with Step 4 on Obedience. John describes it for us as standing before God with a kind of simplicity and humility; truthful living before God and others. When we live in this manner we unburden ourselves and so run a good race without a heavy conscience and also protected from the cunning of the demons who make exacting investigation of our deeds. 
After describing obedience and defining it, John then turns to give us beautiful examples of those who lived it in an heroic fashion. In particular, we are told of a thief who seeks admittance to a monastery. Gradually the superior test his obedience through the confession of his sins privately and publicly. The thief does this with profound humility and obedience that is shocking even to Saint John. It is then that he is received into the monastery and given the habit. He overcame the shame of his sin through the shame of bringing all things to light. 
St. John goes on to describe the fruit that this bore within the community. They were so formed by the spirit of obedience through their skillful superior and physician of souls, that they began to live the angelic life. Their love and generosity towards each other was unparalleled. They would seek to protect each other’s consciences and also to take each other’s burdens upon themselves.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:36 FrDavid Abernethy: starting tonight on page 70, paragraph 9
 
00:41:45 renwitter: Without this type of public, and total confession, is there any way to attain to a similar level of freedom? I feel like so many carry certain sins as secrets from all but their confessor, and maybe spouse.
 
00:44:14 Fr. Miron Jr.: 1st sunday of Great Lent
 
00:55:47 renwitter: This also perfectly compliments what we discussed in the Evergetinos on Monday - the simple, very easy way that idle conversation becomes evil conversation, and thus something that needs to be avoided even in the very beginning when it seems really harmless. There is nothing harmless about what is idle.
 
01:03:28 Ashley Kaschl: It’s not hard since a lot of things die in this heat 😂
 
01:04:17 Barb Heyrman: I am reminded of a homily on one very hot & humid Sunday.  “If you think this is hot…try bell.”
 
01:07:59 renwitter: I am reminded of my favorite quote from an old cartoon (the context is the Dad of the family dropping his son off for Sunday school). Son: “But Dad, Sunday school is so not cool." Dad: “You know what's not cool Bobby? Hell.”
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:16:15 Ashley Kaschl: I was on the go earlier, so you don’t have to respond to this, Father. 
 
But the public confession of past wrongs in the earlier paragraphs reminds me of the General Judgment.
 
01:16:19 Ashley Kaschl: And in contemplating that, at first, there’s a real, gripping fear that all will be made clear, nothing will be hidden. Since sin is an absence, an act contrary to reality, that wounds both us and the Body, this type of confession, which we will all endure in the end, can’t NOT be healing and ultimately freeing. 
 
But then, in understanding the sacramental life, Who and where I’m made for, and if one has a penitential disposition, it’s less about standing in shame or fear, and more like we would stand before everyone with a deep recognition, humility, and admission for having been who we are not and did not want to be.
 
01:21:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you!
 
01:21:16 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!
 
01:21:36 Bonnie Lewis: A blessed birthday to you !
 
01:21:40 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thankk you
 
01:21:43 Rachel Pineda: Happy Birthday! LOL 60
 
01:21:45 Sheila Applegate: Happy Birthday!
 
01:22:00 carolnypaver: Birthday Blessings!
 
01:22:02 kevin: happy Birthday
 
01:22:05 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Happy Birthday!
 
01:22:10 Rachel Pineda: The kids still think you are ancient but look young. God bless! Happy Birthday!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part VI and Hypothesis XXII, Part I

We began this evening with the final pages of Hypothesis 21 describing the importance of not opening one’s conscience to an individual unless guided by the Grace of God to do so. It is not a small thing to entrust oneself to the care of another, especially the care of one’s soul. Therefore we are counseled to be discriminating. For the elder that we choose, or rather the elder that God chooses for us, is a gift; a relationship of love and devotion. An Elder does not see himself as detached from our struggles but rather enters into them and takes penance and prayer upon himself for our healing. We do not struggle in isolation. Understanding the importance of this relationship,then, we should pray for our elder and love him. 
Moving on to Hypothesis 22 we are warned to avoid meetings with careless men and avoiding anything that would disturb the peace of our heart or the stillness that has been hard won. We must never see idle conversation as insignificant. Rather we must understand that if allow ourselves to be drawn along by such conversations our consciences will coarsen and we will find ourselves engaged in grievous conversations and behaviors. 
We are given a wonderful example of an elder who, because of his purity and innocence, finds God responding immediately to his prayers for others. No impediment is placed before the action of God‘s grace in his life or acting through his intercession. We should not be surprised when the Fathers tell us that if we neglect our relationship with God or treat His grace cheaply that our prayers go unanswered.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:16 B K-LEB: like fr zozima
 
00:29:29 Ambrose Little, OP: “outraged ... since he did not rely totally on the help of God." Love that.
 
00:31:10 Anthony: So much for "Grace Alone."  One the one hand, all good is from God, all good is a grace.  But, we must exercise the faculty of human nature (which is also a gift) to choose the grace, to at least choose a desire for the grace.  I think St. Anselm says this in "One Truth" or "On Free Will"
 
00:32:22 Anthony: "On Truth"
 
00:39:21 Anthony: In America, we tie sin to things: sugary drinks, alcohol, guns, etc.  It is very selective. But traditionally, sin is attached to our deficiencies of soul - and a Puritan look at sin does not take this psychology into account.
 
00:40:36 Sheila Applegate: Attachment to having life the way we want it?
 
00:50:10 B K-LEB: i agree anthony
 
00:50:38 B K-LEB: i personally think the inner spiritual sins are far worse than the physical sins
 
00:52:02 B K-LEB: i'd rather go to heaven fat and humble than thin and proud, haha
 
00:53:18 Ren: It would be so good for seminarians to read this particular hypothesis when they study confession. So much meaningful, and practical advice. The way to engage the penitent, the call to enter into repentance with them…all just so good.
 
00:54:41 B K-LEB: too much theology can make us proud pharisees
 
00:56:56 Anthony: Copts require new priests to spend 40 days in monastery
 
00:57:56 Bridget McGinley: The Jesuits used to not be able to listen to women's confessions until they had been a priest for 10 years.
 
01:02:50 B K-LEB: isn't spiritual pride essentially the worst kind of sin?
 
01:04:59 Anthony: He gives us a remedy: using the 2nd person plural in the Our Father so we lump ourselves together with all other sinners: "Forgive US OUR trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us / Lead US not into temptation but deliver US from evil."
 
01:20:36 Ren: The warning that idle words quickly become harmful ones is really, really helpful. I have often seen this happen in myself, yet I’ve never heard it explicitly said that the one can so easily lead to the other. It casts a far more serious light on consenting to idle conversation, knowing how easily it leads to something more sinister. So many “little sins” become more sinister when you examine the greater sins that the open the door to. I know that even thinking about addressing this is terrifying for me…but it does make me think about how much idle conversation one is exposed to in television, movies, radio, social media…definitely thought provoking.
 
01:31:06 Ren: Awesome way to make a discussion of the Fathers topically connected to the holiday :D GO REVOLUTION!! ;-)
 
01:34:46 B K-LEB: thank u so much
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part II

This evening we picked up with Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John puts it before us in an unvarnished fashion. It is hard work. It offers us great freedom; freedom from all of our concerns about the things of the world, daily circumstances, or what others do or say to us. Yet, it is a rough way because it means letting go of our own will, self-judgment and opinion. We freely give these things over to another who becomes our “helmsman”.  The helmsman becomes our “nous” - the eye of the heart - while we lack that purity of heart. 
One does not choose to live in obedience indiscriminately, Saint John tells us. Rather, we must make sure that we embrace obedience and give our judgment over to one who can truly guide us along the path that leads to the kingdom. Otherwise, Saint John tells us, we should get no profit from our subjection. For this reason we must write the good deeds of our elder on our hearts and constantly remember them. For once we have chosen to live in obedience, either under an elder or within our particular vocation in life and to our particular vows, we are inevitably going to be attacked by the evil one who desires to make us distrust our elder. 
Obedience is of the greatest value because in humbling the mind in the body it frees us from all the things that stir the passions within us. Obedience is not meant to be a form of oppression or of infantilizing others. An elder is to embrace his disciple with the greatest love and desire for his well-being. For in the end he will be held responsible for the one God has placed in his care.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:11:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 69 n.4
 
00:11:19 FrDavid Abernethy: On obedience
 
00:17:13 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I’m young!
 
00:29:29 Anthony: For what it's worth, here are attorney saints: Augustine, Fidelis Sigmaringen, Thomas More, Aloysius Gonzaga.  The only one I think who was led to the spiritual life without trauma was Fidelis of Sigmaringen.  There have to be more attorney-saints.
 
00:30:38 Anthony: Well, St. Thomas More began well but was rarified through trauma
 
00:40:22 Ambrose Little, OP: sometimes you do. 😄
 
00:44:54 Anthony: St Seraphim of Sarov: "Headache may be caused by agitated and excessively forced mental activity."  Last sentence of Spiritual Instruction #15.  Maybe obedience helps us avoid overthinking.
 
00:49:14 M C: I have found it difficult to find an orthodox spiritual director.
 
00:53:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Would you think that this guidance applies to, e.g., our bishop and/or the Holy Father? The CCC says we owe religious submission of intellect and will. Makes me wonder about what's going on in the Church these days.
 
00:58:19 Ambrose Little, OP: Definitely recommend reading the Holy Father's letter on the liturgy published today. Very powerful stuff. (Sorry, gotta run to pick up the younguns. God bless, y'all.)
 
00:58:59 Art: Desidero Desideravi
 
01:02:33 Anthony: Book recommendation: "Papacy and Revolution" by EEY Hales.  It was the "conservative" (but really liberal because they were so headstrong?) Jansenists who unwittingly had a seminal role in bringing about the French Revolution.
 
01:04:39 Anthony: i.e. Oliver Cromwell in England
 
01:13:00 Sam Rodriguez : My first exposure of that teaching “put no trust in yourself” was the Spiritual Combat by Scupoli. Is a core tenet of his, from the earliest pages, if I remember correctly
 
01:15:46 M C: Thank you!
 
01:15:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part V

What a beautiful group this evening. Once again we hear a young brother asking  questions about transgressing the commands and guidance given by an elder. What we hear over and over again is an emphasis upon the fact that an elder is not disconnected from one in his care. If a person transgresses a command or ignores the guidance of an elder, he is to return to him without fear or with the expectation that his humility will be met with anything but gentleness, tenderness, and further counsel. Of course, this does not mean we fall into neglect or become indifferent about striving to live holy lives.  What we find in the Fathers again and again is an emphasis upon the value of repentance; turning to God with humble hearts and receiving a flood of his grace and mercy. 
Again the brother asks if one should simply neglect to learn about the spiritual life so as not to be held accountable for particular sins. The elder quickly tells him that such a thought is sinister in that it blocks the path to true healing. Sin brings its own suffering. Repentance is a gift from God that opens up a path to healing and hope.  Why would one not want to know the path that God has opened up for us? Why would one not desire the wisdom of the counsel of the fathers in order that they might truly be healed? Furthermore, the elder emphasizes that God values the person of his servants precisely because they imitate Christ himself. They offer advice with intense and warm prayer to God and make their own the sufferings of others crying out to God, “Master save us, we perish.“  Save US! We do not struggle as Christians in isolation but we embrace one another’s struggles as our own.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:40 David Fraley: Hello to all.
 
00:16:52 FrDavid Abernethy: page 180 letter K.  Hypothesis 21
 
00:17:17 FrDavid Abernethy: hi Dave
 
00:17:25 FrDavid Abernethy: where are the snacks??
 
00:19:01 maureencunningham: thank you Ren
 
00:24:58 carolnypaver: What page/section?
 
00:25:09 renwitter: =Page 181
 
00:25:16 carolnypaver: TY
 
00:34:35 Sheila Applegate: I often feel like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill only  to have it come crashing down. Rinse. Repeat.
 
00:35:39 Debra: Same

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter III: On Exile, Part V and Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part I

We returned this evening to Step 3 on Exile. St. John concludes by simply telling us that exile - simplifying one’s life - creates a stable character. This is a precious gift and so we must guard our minds and our hearts so that we do not corrupt ourselves by entering once again into what is worldly and disorderly. Saint John concludes Step 3 by taking a moment to speak to us about dreams. A dream involves the minds activity when the body is asleep. The mind, as we know, can be very active; often swept along by the things of day-to-day life or by what rest deep within the unconscious. Saint John warns us that the demons can use our dreams by playing the role of prophet. They convince us that our dreams have deep meaning, they tell us something important about the future, or tell us what is happening in a loved one’s life. Demons can transform themselves into angels of light and lead us into a kind of unholy joy and conceit over what is revealed within our dreams. We can find the demons making sport of us when we so much credence to their interpretation. Therefore, we should distrust our dreams; knowing that like the fantasies in our waking hours they can be used against us in dangerous ways. 
We then turned to Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John begins to emphasize its importance for us in the spiritual battle. We are to seek this as one of our most important weapons because it conforms us in a special way to Christ -  whose food was to do the will of His heavenly Father. An obedient soul listens deeply to what God and one’s superior is telling him. Obedience protects us from the delusion of our own judgment, opinions and reasons. We do not see all ends and the fact that we ignore this does not go unnoticed by the evil one.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 66 paragraph 24
 
00:28:36 Lee Graham: Entertaining our thoughts while awake
 
00:34:29 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Aquinas says that our imagination can be seen by demons (and good angels, as originally they are both superb intellectual beings), since they are formed in our intelligence. Is that where the spiritual warfare takes place in dreams (logismoi)?
 
00:39:26 Ryan Schaefer: At Franciscan U a lot of students supposedly had visions. Some students seemed very proud of the fact that they’ve seen angels, seen the future, etc… always seemed like a red flag to me
 
00:43:56 Bridget McGinley: Little nervous, I don't dream ( at least I don't remember). My soul!?!?
 
00:46:50 Cindy Moran: ]
 
00:49:09 Ryan Schaefer: The TORs at Franciscan always told us that we would receive consolations if we are following Gods will. Often they said if we are not following God then we would NOT receive a “spirit of peace”. Is this incorrect? How does this relate to para. 29
 
00:52:05 Rachel: Everytime I've read this, it has confused me a bit. Since it can be dangerous to speak about the interior life on account of the demons who will try to trick us at every moment, how are we supposed to approach confession and the revealing of thoughts to one's confessor or spiritual director? Even here it seems to me one has to be very discerning and careful.
 
00:52:10 Rachel: LOL
 
00:56:29 Ambrose Little, OP: well!
 
00:56:56 Rachel: Okay, ! That was what I was going to ask about the grace of the Sacrament. But we went on to dreams etc. :)     I think when I first became Catholic this witnessing was something that made me pause. Wow, thank you
 
00:57:04 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Fr. David, continuing my previous thought, I was always thinking that demons can only have an insight into our inner life based on our behavior but lately I've read Aquinas: Summa, First Part, Question 111. The action of the angels on man
Article 3. Whether an angel can change man's imagination? with hims stating: “I answer that, Both a good and a bad angel by their own natural power can move the human imagination. " and then explaining further that thought: “An angel changes the imagination, not indeed by the impression of an imaginative form in no way previously received from the senses”, I was perplexed. If you would have any insight on that from your perspective in the future, that would be great. Thank you.
 
00:58:57 Rachel: Oh, I missed this week's class. 🙃
 
00:59:47 sue and mark: ok, thank you..
 
01:02:43 Iwona Bednarz-Major: thank you
 
01:18:02 Lee Graham: I totally agree with you
 
01:20:45 Anthony: Obedience has a very important role in daily work.  As craftsman is obedient to the methods of the trade and masters; a government worker is obedient to the law's "you shall" in regard to enforcement - especially when he does not want to enforce the law; a day laborer is obedient to the payor.  Obedience is especially essential in a medieval guild system.  All life is master-apprentice.
 
01:22:44 Anthony: mass commodity is modern edicatin
 
01:22:49 Anthony: education
 
01:22:59 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I didn’t type fast enough before but I wanted to touch on what you were saying a paragraph ago about obedience and humility. 
 
I think you’ve said before that at the heart of the word ‘Obedience’ is the meaning ‘to hear’, and that humility, being tied to obedience, is prone to silence. 
 
I was thinking about something I heard a couple years back from my pastor that the word Silent, is comprised of the same letters which spell the words Listen and Enlist. So it just brought to mind that in humble silence of our prayer we listen (obedience) for His voice so that He can enlist us in the particular task He has set before us, that we might be caught up in God’s purpose.
 
01:23:54 Carol Nypaver: Wow!
 
01:27:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...so wonderful to be here!
 
01:27:17 Sheila Applegate: Thanks again, Father.
 
01:27:20 Ryan Schaefer: God bless you father thank you!
 
01:27:21 Art: Thank you Father.  Goodnight all.
 
01:27:21 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part IV

We continued with the incredible counsel of the Fathers about how one discerns when to embrace the advice and counsel of others, specifically one’s Elder. The first distinction made is about advice - counsel that is a part of the spiritual tradition as a whole and so valuable in and of itself. This should be embraced faithfully - for it is given by the goodness and kindness of one’s Elder. When that relationship has grown throughout the course of the years a command may be given by an Elder. This command, however, is only given under specific circumstances; never casually. One must have a kind of clarity and sense of commitment to what is being asked of the Elder. This is to be done by making a prostration, a bodily action and sign of obeisance showing one’s desire to take hold of the command of the Elder. The Elder, then, in an equally concrete fashion must give his blessing. In doing so he takes upon himself the commitment to pray and fast that the one in his care would be able to fulfill the command. We see in all of this the depth of the relationship that must exist between an Elder and the one in his charge. We do not simply expose ourselves to information, reading the writings of the Elders and applying them to our lives. Rather, we enter into a living tradition and it is in and through this relationship between an elder and the one in his care that spiritual growth is made. It is a relationship of love that mirrors the relationship that Christ has with each of us. He calls us to give ourselves to Him and follow Him and in doing so He gives us himself in the most holy Eucharist. The command always holds within it the grace to help us fulfill it. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:46 FrDavid Abernethy: Anthony Coniaris
 
00:17:55 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginnners Guide to the Philokalia
 
01:09:50 Ren: This reminder that the Elder prays for the one whom he counsels is very helpful. I am not sure there is anything more humbling than being prayed for - or fasted for! Knowing that another is investing themselves so deeply on your behalf definitely spurs one on to greater dedication. The gift demands a response.
 
01:11:26 Ren: Yes. Wow. Imagine that: God himself, in the person of Christ, fasted for each one of us. Spent himself praying for each of us. So very humbling.
 
01:12:09 Carol Nypaver: Absolutely.
 
01:20:09 Ren: Just a little PSA for everyone: we have switched our email service to MailChimp. If you did not receive an email in advance of tonight’s group, please check your spam filter, and mark it as not junk. Thank you!
 
01:21:32 David Fraley: Thanks Fr David!
 
01:21:47 Debra: The short link, tonight, still triggered a 'Threat Warning' from Avast lol
 
01:21:58 Ambrose Little: stop using Avast
 
01:22:20 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 2nd experience with baptism!
 
01:22:28 Eric Williams: Keeping you busy and out of trouble. ;)
 
01:22:54 Debra: You're making me want to switch to the East lol
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter III: On Exile, Part IV

We continued our reading of step three on Exile. As with so many things said within the Ladder of Divine Ascent, the words of Saint John are jarring. It is not because John seeks to be abrasive or provocative; rather he is presenting us with the Gospel through the lens of the monastic vocation. It is God who embraced exile in the greatest sense through the incarnation. Christ, out of love for the Father  and His will and out of love for us, exiles himself into the depths of humanity and of our sin in order to raise us to new life. Our exile is simply a response to this great gift of love and sacrifice on our behalf. We freely choose to exile ourselves from the things that pulls away from fulfilling the will of God or loving Him unconditionally not because of any hatred for the world or the things of the world. It is the desire for God that guides and shapes our ascetical life and our spiritual disciplines. Outside of the love of God they lack meaning. They are to be a response of humble gratitude for what God has given to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:53 Cindy Moran: I have no audio
 
00:22:06 Anthony: I think I finally get your admonishment to read things in context. He can't be talking about withdrawing from a family like St. Basil's 3 generations living in harmony family life and monastic life.
 
00:34:10 Rachel: Like the ghetto in Sacramento. lol
 
00:34:29 B K-LEB: this teaching is too hard............
 
00:34:35 Erick chastain: moved to texas
 
00:34:45 Erick chastain: God's country
 
00:34:45 Daniel Allen: I would add that it starts at home with the family
 
00:34:53 Bonnie Lewis: Wait a minute.  I
 
00:35:06 Bonnie Lewis: I'm in Texas
 
00:35:12 Edward Kleinguetl: Welcome to Texas.  I live in Houston, although moving to Toronto in six weeks.
 
00:36:04 Daniel Allen: Can’t flee to a place and expect everything to be somehow better. There isn’t a real chance to run to something if you don’t have it with you first. Like St Seraphim of Sarov, acquire the spirit of peace.
 
00:37:19 Erick chastain: thanks deacon Ed!
 
00:37:42 Erick chastain: agreed Daniel.
 
00:38:21 Joseph Caro: I wonder if this fleeing into the desert (in the literal, monkish, sense) is becoming increasingly next to impossible for our current western civilization without first a radical severance from cell phones, internet, Facebook, etc. And I am wondering if even the secondary more modest type of detachment can be fully done without first tempering our use of media, internet, etc.. . I don't know though, just my first impression.
 
00:38:21 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass.
 
00:38:59 Anthony: Joseph - so much data DOES impede contemplation.
 
00:39:20 B K-LEB: i agree with you Joseph the internet is an endless void
 
00:39:36 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen!
 
00:39:58 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 Erick and Joseph!
 
00:40:29 Ambrose Little, OP: The internet has so much to foster our knowledge of the faith and to connect with other faith-filled persons (like this group). It's a tool. Have to use it wisely.
 
00:41:28 Dayton S: 👆
 
00:42:08 Art: Good for you Erick. Is it Univ of Dallas?
 
00:43:29 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass. Guarding my mind and heart from secular people. Reduced temptations to anger and worldly ambition.
 
00:44:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: In our community a small group of us are living a more contemplative life.  And it has been a very rocky road.  We are not monastic but are called to live the life of our Blessed Mother in the Cenacle.  We do 3 hours of adoration and one of them is at 12am for priest. And another sacrifice is not eating meat in the convent.  Also doing the full Divine Office.  Only time will tell if God will bring us vocations to live this way of life. To try and live a more contemplative life in todays world is a challenge.
 
00:46:30 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Sister Mary.  May your efforts bear much good fruit!
 
00:47:20 Ambrose Little, OP: I am reminded of Pope St. John Paul II: Be not afraid! Lead out into the deep. (Duc in altum.)
 
00:48:04 Anthony: Nassim Nicholas Talib, in "The Bed of Procrustes":  Philosophers walk, they do not run.  He is an Orthodox Christian who takes the spirit of Orthodoxy into his academic/risk analysis/economic work.  He's right.  God is not speaking in urgent panic.  Be a "lover of wisdom."  Walk, and enjoy and contemplate.
 
00:48:22 Ambrose Little, OP: Lead = duc
 
00:48:37 iPhone: Chapter 5 of the Letter of Diognetus comes to mind…. Christians are not distinguished from other men by country, language, nor by the customs which they observe. They do not inhabit cities of their own, use a particular way of speaking, nor lead a life marked out by any curiosity. The course of conduct they follow has not been devised by the speculation and deliberation of inquisitive men. The do not, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of merely human doctrines.
 
Instead, they inhabit both Greek and barbarian cities, however things have fallen to each of them. And it is while following the customs of the natives in clothing, food, and the rest of ordinary life that they display to us their wonderful and admittedly striking way of life.
 
They live in their own countries, but they do so as those who are just passing through. As citizens they participate in everything with others, yet they endure everything as if they were foreigners. Every foreign land is like their homeland to them, and every land…
 
00:48:42 B K-LEB: he's the one (NNT) i once quoted who said "God provides the cure then he allows the problem"
 
00:52:11 Ashley Kaschl: Daniel, I love that song! 🔥
 
00:52:22 Sheila Applegate: Great band.
 
00:53:12 Daniel Allen: I could listen to that album on repeat haha
 
01:02:41 Ren: The figure of Abraham is a beautiful fleshing out of what we spoke about a couple of groups ago: that this kind of exile is an exile TO not FROM. The figure of Joseph is one that perhaps illustrates a kind of opposite: an exile from, that God works with in order to effect good - an exile that will, in fact, lead to the slavery of the entire people of God. But Abraham embraces exile for the sake of covenant with God and is thus a far superior example.
 
01:04:48 Anthony: The book of Jasher has a story that Abraham was one of the few righteous worshippers of God among the people around the Tower of Babel, and God called him away.
 
01:08:05 Anthony: Christ's exile was also out of love.
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta run. Family thing. God bless.
 
01:12:03 B K-LEB: love can be very selfish and manipulative st pope b16 said
 
01:12:23 Bonnie Lewis: This reminds me of Peter leaving the boat to follow Jesus but his attention was diverted and his faith was weakened, and he began to sink.
 
01:13:47 Ren: Ooo. So hard
 
01:16:04 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!
 
01:16:15 Daniel Allen: Hang in there it only gets more uncomfortable haha
 
01:16:55 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!
 
01:17:02 B K-LEB: lol
 
01:17:37 B K-LEB: i am projecting so much angst on fr. david while reading this, i dont want to hear it@@
 
01:18:05 Carol Nypaver: How do we not seem indifferent while “letting go?”
 
01:19:08 Lee Graham: A greater understanding of to what God is calling you
 
01:21:11 B K-LEB: jesus himself sweats blood
 
01:21:32 Erick chastain: holy suffering vs worldly suffering
 
01:21:57 Lee Graham: Count it all joy
 
01:22:14 Daniel Allen: I don’t mean to sanitize this, and I don’t think this doesn’t that, but I keep returning to letting go of our own will. The monk being called to the desert had to abandon his will for comfort, family, and familiarity. But every day we have to let go of our own will and embrace noisy kids and a lack of silence, or work that doesn’t fulfill a personal sense of gaining in what has meaning, and time for oneself. My examples obviously more align with having a lot of small children, but I think that (to me) is the letting go of the will that the monk is also doing.
 
01:23:42 Daniel Allen: Sorry writing stream of conscious isn’t something I’m good at haha. Glad you could make sense of that rambling paragraph
 
01:24:12 Cathy Murphy: That is the joy of children.  You must be in the present moment and only love them
 
01:26:32 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!
 
01:26:37 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Thanks!
 
01:26:37 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:26:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...good night!
 
01:26:47 Art: Thank you father and stay cool Pittsburgh
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part III

What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well.
This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time.
What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;)
 
00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting!
 
00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;)
 
00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever!
 
00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9?  All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them?  Especially when we are previously unmerciful?  Or am I off the mark?
 
00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great.  Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.”
00:31:27 Tyler Woloshyn: It reminds me of the verse and humbly to bear one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2)
 
00:32:09 B K-LEB: St therese said "the spirit blows where it wills"
 
00:32:27 B K-LEB: when asked about why she thinks God chose her..
 
00:38:11 Rachel Pineda: I do not think I am being to harsh here that the asceticism spoken of here is sometimes taken as superstitious but in fact when one treats it as such  it is a lack of faith in God's Providential care of each and every soul. Also, a lack of patience. Well, the Father just said better than I.
 
00:39:05 Anthony: St. Padre Pio ~ If you think I make a mistake, do you think God would?  (different context, but the principle fits.)
 
00:39:48 Rachel Pineda: LOL
 
00:39:58 Rachel Pineda: No the Desert Father but okay
 
00:40:15 Rachel Pineda: I am sure you know better than I
 
00:41:05 Rachel Pineda: What I am speaking about is the radical conversion that takes place. Even to other faithful it can look weird.
 
00:41:41 B K-LEB: I heard a man who had dealt with sexual abuse at the church say that "you don't have to heal to be holy". I am wondering your thoughts about this. Is healing necessarily and intrinsically related to holiness?
 
00:45:14 Rachel Pineda: I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen spoke about that in his talks on confession!
 
00:48:40 B K-LEB: wow thank u
 
00:49:09 Rachel Pineda: Yes, Thank you!
 
00:53:02 Anthony: It seems to me that the grief or pain is often one of the mind or imagination, but the center of the soul is confident in God.  The nagging thought is precisely the fog of thought, and the devil wishes it to descend to the nous - but God Who does not abandon the man allows us to conscously unite out thoughts to the  "crown of thorns" of Christ's crucifixion.
 
00:56:50 Anthony: Fr. Pavel Florovsku, "Iconostasis", opens with a discussion of dreams and time.
 
00:56:57 Anthony: Florovsky
 
00:58:49 Rachel Pineda: WOW!!
 
01:01:02 B K-LEB: Father you should talk more about this topic many are interested
 
01:17:42 Anthony: Father, this isn't just a religious topic. It involves the philosophical discipline of epistemlogy (the search for certain truth) - and we Americans are so impoverished in philosophical language and concepts
 
01:19:38 Eric Williams: Data, data everywhere, and not a thought to think
 
01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: My daughter once asked a co-worker what he thought about a particular topic.  He said, I haven’t thought about that, let me look it up.  😲
 
01:21:26 Anthony: It's a form of intoxication.
 
01:23:01 Debra: Off topic:
Asking for prayers for all those effected by the flooding in southern Montana, and Yellowstone park
Several rivers flooded; roads and bridges gone  Thank you
 
01:24:17 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night. God bless!
 
01:24:37 David Fraley: Good night, everyone!
 
01:24:55 Rachel Pineda: Goodnight!
 
01:25:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone!
 
01:25:15 sue and mark: good night and God Bless
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter III: On Exile, Part III

We continued this week with step number 3 on Exile. Saint John takes us deeper into the mystery of what it is to live as a Christian within the world. God calls to the heart and desires that we give our love to Him as he has given his love to us.  Ultimately this is the reason why the monks exiled themselves to the desert. It was not to free themselves from the company of others. Rather they separated themselves from all things in order to become inseparable from Christ. Similarly, in our day-to-day life, we exile ourselves from all those things which would cool our devotion for the Lord. We are careful not to turn back to the things that we are attached to knowing that in doing so we are likely to be drawn back to the things of the world. This exile is not hatred. It is the desire to let Christ be the one who teaches us what is good for us. We are to let the virtues, the angels and the Saints, the remembrance of death, contrition, be our family and our friends. These are the things that endure and will support us and our journey toward the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:28:02 Rachel: Yep
 
00:30:37 carolnypaver: Page?
 
00:30:42 Anthony: carpathian plainchant
 
00:30:45 Ren: 64
 
00:30:57 carolnypaver: TY
 
00:32:19 Rachel: I think it is a way of protecting the other as well as one's own heart. It is not just about outright vulgar immodesty. It is about our minding our gaze. Because we long to gaze at the Face of God. To be able, please God, to see as God sees.
 
00:47:14 Anthony: In section 12, we are dealing with stymied vocations.  In section 11, we were warned against being self-appointed saviors of the world.  Maybe appointing yourself a savior of the world is like dwelling in the dumps on your sin.  The gaze of the person is turned inward on "look at what I can do / look what I did" and that is harmful to the person and to the world.  It is God Who _gives_ the vocation and the salvation.  The goal of Christian life is a genuine blissful loss of the self-awareness as a branch loses itself in the vine?  If he dwells on his fault, he is consumed with canker; if he boasts of himself, he is consumed with worthless woody growth, not fruit.
 
00:49:14 carolnypaver: “….delivered them up to their doom?” Please explain this part.
 
00:49:24 Ren: 12
 
00:51:44 Debra: Just going to the store in June, is indoctrination :/
 
00:58:17 Rachel: Yes!
 
00:58:31 Rachel: Go into your room and pray to God in secret..
 
01:00:31 Robyn Greco: Thank you Father
 
01:06:40 Anthony: This is why living in Catholic community is so helpful; our surrounding "culture" is directly contrary to each of the family members he raises here to our attention.  Community reinforcement of Catholic themes is important.
 
01:16:21 Ren: Though Climacus takes things even farther by assigning familial relations even to the virtues, paragraph 15 reminds me of this writing of St. John Kronstadt: "When you are praying alone, and your spirit is dejected, and you are wearied and oppressed by your loneliness, remember then, as always, that God the Trinity looks upon you with eyes brighter than the sun; also all the angels, your own Guardian Angel, and all the Saints of God. Truly they do; for they are all one in God, and where God is, there are they also. Where the sun is, thither also are directed all its rays." No matter what one’s vocation, it seems a kind of loneliness and isolation in this world is always a part of it, for the Christian, and thus so many of the Fathers give advice seeking out the invisible, heavenly community to combat it.
 
01:19:36 Ashley Kaschl: I think this detachment is harder than believing that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ 😂😬
 
01:20:06 Ambrose Little, OP: (Sorry, took a while to write, so I got behind the current topic..)
 
In my Dominican circles, we often talk about evangelization. It is absolutely crucial, I think all of us can agree, but there is remarkable disagreement on the best way to go about it. 
 
Some folks say that simply “speaking the Truth” is the decisive means to win souls. Others say simple accompaniment. Most know intuitively there is some truth in both, but I find folks keen to argue as if one way is, effectively, the only way, while the other won’t work at all—and they can get quite agitated about it. But it’s a matter of emphasis—different folks have different gifts, and more importantly, we need to be sensitive in each and every situation and listen for the Spirit’s guidance.
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Folks of “action” pay that lip service, but when pressed, they seem to think we can’t “just” do that. It can’t be “that simple”; they get antsy. Prayer just “isn’t enough.” But I return to the Old Testament—Israel often being a superb type of the individual faith journey. *Every time* Israel (and/or some leader) tried to go on their own, doing what seemed right and wise to them—even with good intentions, it failed, sometimes spectacularly. 
 
I see what seems to be _so much_ damage done in the Church and _to our Christian witness_ by folks who just can’t not “let their light shine,” though it seems to me it’s more of that spectacular failing, because they don’t wait on the Spirit. If they did, then we’d see the fruit of the Spirit made manifest. But more often than not, we don’t. 
 
Waiting on the Lord in prayer, being silent, living in that “exile,” increasingly seems to me to be the Way. Let action, if it is needed, come from that.
 
01:20:50 Rachel: That is why I put my hand down all the time! I am so behind. :)
 
01:21:58 Rachel: That is so true.
 
01:24:36 Eric Williams: Some people embracing brutal honesty are more interested in the brutality than the honesty. That's why my spider sense tingles and I get anxious when some people pontificate about boldly and loudly proclaiming the Faith to secular society. I think a lot more of us should embrace silent and hidden holiness than should attempt evangelization or apologetics.
 
01:24:56 Eric Williams: (Sorry. Got behind trying to type on my phone.)
 
01:25:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Much more concise than me, Eric! 🙂
 
01:25:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!
 
01:25:45 Ryan Schaefer: Thank you!
 
01:25:47 Rachel: Thank you Father!
 
01:25:49 kevin: thank you!!!!
 
01:26:02 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!
 
01:26:26 Rachel: 6 am here
 
01:26:31 Cathy: Prayers
 
01:26:34 Rachel: 🙏🏼
 
01:26:39 Eric Williams: It's not often I'm called concise, Ambrose ;)
 
01:26:39 carolnypaver: We will, Father. God bless you in your transition.
 
01:26:46 Sheila Applegate: prayers!
 
01:27:55 Art: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part II

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 21. One is not to reveal the thoughts of the heart and the mind or one’s temptations to others indiscriminately. Rather, we are to seek out those who have the gift of discernment and experiential knowledge. Only those who are engaged in spiritual warfare, who know their own minds and hearts well can speak to the struggles of others. Much damage can be and has been done by those who set themselves up as teachers of the faith and the spiritual life and yet not living it themselves in any measure. What we are to look for in an elder are the particular gifts of the Spirit that arise from living the gospel fully; humility, repentance, obedience, tenderness gentleness, charity, mercy.  In order for one struggling with their sins and the shame that often accompanies them to find courage to acknowledge them, they need an elder who speaks to them with love; a love that reflects Christ himself. How can we speak of what we do not know? We cannot teach the faith or guide others from a position of power but rather imitate Christ in approaching others in a humble and selfless fashion.
 
Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:07:57 FrDavid Abernethy: Public
 
Prayer of St. John Chrysostom before reading spiritual texts.    
O Lord Jesus Christ, open Thou the eyes of my heart, that I may hear Thy word and understand and do Thy will, for I am a sojourner upon the earth. Hide not Thy commandments from me, but open mine eyes, that I may perceive the wonders of Thy law. Speak unto me the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom. On Thee do I set my hope, O my God, that Thou shalt enlighten my mind and understanding with the light of Thy knowledge, not only to cherish those things which are written, but to do them, that in reading the lives and sayings of the Saints I may not sin, but that such may serve for my restoration, enlightenment and sanctification, for the salvation of my soul, and the inheritance of life everlasting; For Thou art the enlightenment of those who lie in darkness, and from Thee cometh every good deed and every gift. Amen.
 
00:11:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170
 
00:16:56 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be to Jesus Christ! Good evening everyone.
 
00:27:02 David Robles: According to the Philokalia the stages of sin/temptation are
 
00:34:29 Anthony: How do these stages of sin correlate to the Roman distinctions between Imperfections, Venial sins and Mortal Sins?  Or is that too big a topic or a harmful focus on what is evil within us instead of focus on what is good, noble, etc?
 
00:34:41 Wayne: page?
 
00:43:25 Josie: "preach and if you have to, speak"
 
00:56:58 Josie: is there a difference between the evil one hearing the confession of our thoughts in private vs in public? can't he hear them in both cases?
 
00:57:07 Josie: sorry sent by accident
 
00:59:28 Anthony: The protection of the mind is maybe the really important problem with social media - as one mindlessly absorbs, one tunes into so many different minds putting themselves out for consumption; it's more indiscriminate than TV since you can get so many channels one right after the other.
 
01:07:55 Tyler Woloshyn: Some priests are not psychologists nor should pretend to be in the confessional
 
01:08:23 sue and mark: yup
 
01:14:26 Josie: so does a confession with a bad priest still give us grace?
 
01:18:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes, if he's ordained and pronounces absolution. Personal qualities don't impede the sacramental grace.
 
01:28:31 carolnypaver: My question is from section C. What about sharing what we learned in Spiritual direction with one’s spouse, especially concerning children?
 
01:29:17 carolnypaver: Thank you!
 
01:29:28 Josie: 1 sec
 
01:29:31 Josie: typing
 
01:29:46 Josie: in AA they teach you to tell your story
 
01:29:51 Josie: to help others heal
 
01:30:00 Josie: my priest says that's good
 
01:30:03 Josie: yes
 
01:34:12 Josie: thank you father!!!!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter III: On Exile, Part II

We began this evening with Step 3 “On Exile.”The connotation of the word, as we discussed, can lead one to think of punishment or being removed from the things that are needed or loved. However, as we make our way through the step we begin to see that exile is a path to freedom. It is a gradual turning away or separating oneself from the world in order that one might become inseparable from God. At the heart of exile is a deep desire for God; the longing of the heart that leads one to run toward Him as the source of life. The more we begin to see this truth the clearer it becomes to us that we cling to things with a sense of needing them for meaning or purpose. Exile is so important because it removes that illusion. It shows us that so many things that we have had in our lives hold no lasting promise within them. God is to be the beginning and end of all things for us; and exile gives birth to the kind of detachment that allows us to be ever so confident in what He alone can provide.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63, para. #2
 
00:14:22 David Robles: Dear Father David, Thank you for inviting me to the meeting today. What step and section?
 
00:14:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63 par 2
 
00:15:02 FrDavid Abernethy: On exile
 
00:15:21 Robyn Greco: hi , Hope everyone is well
 
00:15:23 Sheila Applegate: This time the link said it was a malicious link.
 
00:15:37 Sheila Applegate: But the zoom one works.
 
00:16:12 Anthony: Do you spray with Copper Sulfate, Vicki?
 
00:16:14 David Robles: I'm not using your edition. I have the Holy Transfiguration Monastery Edition.
 
00:16:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Thats the edition we use
 
00:16:33 FrDavid Abernethy: 2012
 
00:17:28 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Greetings too!
 
00:18:07 Joseph Caro: fr
 
00:18:13 David Robles: Mine is 1991. Second edition
 
00:18:16 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I don’t like being a boss! Haha
 
00:18:45 Joseph Caro: I have been meaning to thank you for the little book you sent awhile ago, but I keep forgetting!  thank you!
 
00:19:24 David Robles: Step 4 Obedience starts on page 20.
 
00:23:43 David Robles: Oh I see Exile. Found it
 
00:31:27 David Robles: Father, would you agree that the intensity and character of the exile for a lay person, a cenobitic monk or a hermit are different levels? Is there an interior exile that is the same for all?
 
00:32:29 David Robles: St Isaac the Syrian is pretty radical on this, as it is required of a hermit
 
00:36:04 Anthony: This keeping the "mind" inseparable from God, is he referring to cogitation, a constant stream of thought, or something else?  Is "mind" more like "nous" or heart or merely presence here?  I'm thinking it's not cogitation, since that can be exhausting and since the Fathers remind us our imaginations can willingly and unwillingly be the playground of evil.
 
00:39:25 David Robles: Dianoia is rational discourse
 
00:39:32 Sam Rodriguez: St Paul often talks about Sin and Death as Dominions. Where there is a Dominion of Sin, a Dominion of Death. Or, in other words, that we are born into a Lordship of Sin, a Lordship of Death, by virtue of Original Sin. And thus, to be "Delivered" as a Christian, represents being transferred from one Kingdom to another. To be transferred to the Kingdom where Jesus is Lord. And Has Dominion over our lives. Where our lives no longer belong to ourselves. Our bodies no longer belong to ourselves. They have been ransomed at a price. And thus, I'm wondering if this language of Exile is a restatement of a Deliverance process. Where its not that those things in our lives are bad, but that they require His Lordship in order for the Goodness of those Created things to be Received and Revealed and Shared. Being intentional about how we use our time. Or our phones. Or approach our relationships. That we are actively inviting Him to continually Conquer our attraction to those things, Exercise His Dominion over them.
 
00:45:35 Bridget McGinley: I recently came across the book The Way of a Pilgrim. I am memorized by his desire for separating himself from the active world to desperately seek the concept of unceasing prayer yet he does not enter a monastery and wanders the earth mixing with others. Unceasing prayer is a commandment from God, correct? This concept of exile seems unloving to the Eastern societies especially in our country where human contact is considered charitable. When we want to separate even from family and friends because they distract us we are sometimes accused of lacking "charity" but it is well understood in the Orthodox cultures that this is a great gift. I relate to what Robyn just said.
 
00:49:34 Joseph Caro: the idea of exile (separation) to keep us inseparable to God reminds me of marriage , where one keeps themselves from others in order to be in union with ones spouse.
 
00:52:27 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding what Father shared earlier, saying that we should perhaps genuflect before a newly-Baptized baby.... there's a beautiful story of St Louis IX, the French King. After one of his babies was Baptized, the Saint is reported to have joyfully picked up his baby and gave the baby a kiss, right where the baby's heart was, and exclaimed "Hello, Jesus!"
 
01:01:49 Ren: There is an interesting reversal at play here. Normally, when we say someone is exiled, it is exile from something/some place - a banishment from the good, the community, the kingdom - and the place of exile does not matter at all. Here, however, exile is an action taken for the sake of something, and the place of exile - that place in which the soul remains unseparated from  God - is the only thing that matters.
 
01:04:42 Ren: Much the same kind of reversal that turns the barren desert into a place of encounter with Life itself!
 
01:06:18 Erick chastain: how does exile give place to the demon of sensuality?
 
01:15:09 Ashley Kaschl: Exile being the mother of detachment makes a lot of sense. While we’ve been talking about exile in a way that it leads to greater intimacy with God, a direct confrontation with the passions, and a renunciation of the world, I learned it the other way around: that, almost by proxy, a choosing of Christ over everything else in the day-to-day life, moment by moment, leads one to be exile by default. Is this the thought of the West, that one winds up in exile through intimacy with Christ, while the East encourages exile to find that intimacy with Christ?
 
01:18:29 Rachel: YES!! Fantastic points!
 
01:19:31 Rachel: 🙃 wow
 
01:20:03 Ashley Kaschl: Great. Thank you, Father!
 
01:22:47 Anthony: Slavonic. ;)
 
01:24:08 Ren: Hi baby Orlandi!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part VI and Hypothesis XXI, Part I

We continued in our reading of the Evergetinos hypothesis 20 on the importance of revealing one’s thoughts to an elder. The struggle in the spiritual life entails letting go of embarrassment and shame that often plague us - in order that we might freely acknowledge our sins or the thoughts that lead to them. The revelation of these thoughts must be received by elders with the greatest care and tenderness. It is both the perseverance of the one struggling and the patience of the caregiver, the elder, that brings healing. Over and over again we are presented with stories of those who overcome their fear of shame and in their freedom to acknowledge their sin come to experience freedom from the sin itself. Therefore, the fathers hold up before us humility, truthful living; bringing all that is within the mind and heart into the light of Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 number 3
 
00:37:30 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?
 
00:37:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 167
 
00:37:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:42:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Seems like it's less a question of whether this or that father is particularly learned, but that God wants us to seek the guidance of others as an expression of humility and so, through that, will guide us. We may or may not get a "wise" answer, but the actual experience of that humility is in itself instructive and the Spirit will teach us through that.
 
00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: accompaniment 😄
 
01:11:19 Ambrose Little, OP: it says he “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction”
 
01:12:08 Ren: Yea, it does say “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction,” and that he had no “commitment, or agony of soul,” so I think the ways in which the brothers approach the elder are radically different. Not just a difference of physical tears.
 
01:12:33 Ren: Ditto Ambrose
 
01:14:03 Rachel: To me, tears of this sort seems to be a source of scandal for some in the west. Where they are questioned and looked upon as hysterics or a lack of humility, or lack of trust in God;s mercy, and absence of the peace of the Holy Spirit. I don't actually believe there is a problem with the theology of holy repentance in the west, but that it is a misinterpretation of the different manifestations of true repentance in the spiritual life. It is an idea of what repentance must look like. And right now, that seems to be a knee jerk stoic reaction to the nihilist culture we find ourselves surrounded by. The focus by some faithful on keeping it together in a stoic like manner can even encourage and foster an irreverent confession at best because if one is caught crying then, it may be viewed with suspicion.  I do not mean to criticize but only mean to point out the perception I have encountered ( even in myself) that one must have this stoned faced spiritual life coupled with an alloyed joy we pray against.
 
01:15:35 Rachel: It makes me wonder, when one realizes, as God reveals Hiimself, to one;s own capacity, that they are a child of God, one would not be able to help but have copious tears of repentance.
 
01:16:58 Ambrose Little, OP: For a long time I was puzzled by the great saints who would belabor their sinfulness, even with many tears. It sorta came across to me as somehow over the top, maybe too much ("extra” as we say these days). But I think what it is is their greater understanding of the perfect love and goodness of God, the good things God wants to bestow upon us, and how even our lesser imperfections cause us to lose out on the fullness of what God wishes to bless us with.
 
01:18:10 Eric Williams: I suspect that tears of repentance would be regarded as foreign to a sense of "romanitas".
 
01:18:39 Rachel: Well, when in Rome. Sigh
 
01:20:13 Eric Williams: I don't say that approvingly. ;)
 
01:22:21 Rachel: I just want to point out that when one is truly striving, by the grace of God, even and especially tears are brought before the Lord. I mean to say that one doesn't relish in crocodile tears when one truly desires to please God.
 
01:23:12 Ed Havrilla Jr.: The woman who wept at the feet of Jesus, washing his feet, was forgiven and freed of her sin.
 
01:25:01 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:01 Rachel: Thank you father and everyone.
 
01:25:17 Rachel: Yay!
 
01:25:18 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter Two: On Detachment, Part II and Chapter Three: On Exile, Part I

Superb group tonight!  Thank you all so much for the wonderful comments and questions on two very challenging steps.
Synopsis:
We continued this evening reading Step 2 on Detachment and  the beginning of Step 3 on Exile. Saint John makes it very clear to us that detachment from the things of this world and seeing ourselves as living in exile are rooted not in a hatred of the world or of others but rather in our desire for the perfect love of Christ. 
Our passions draw us back again and again to the sickness of our sin. Even when we have left many things behind we can feel a very tangible pull back to them. Therefore, St. John tells us that we must embrace Christ with an unconditional and absolute love and devotion; as He has given his love unconditionally and without limit. 
All things begin and end with love. Our asceticism, all of our disciplines, must be rooted in this love otherwise we will find ourselves isolated from others and from God. Even the monks who embraced the deepest solitude of the desert understood that they did so as part of the body of Christ; that the embrace of deep solitude and silence brought them to a greater intimacy with every other person and allowed them to see the action of God within the world and creation. 
The break from the world of which these first three steps speak is meant to allow us to run freely and swiftly toward Christ, our Beloved.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:31 Sharon: When I tried to log into the link at the top of the email, it wouldn’t log in saying that you were in session with Evergetinos. The link at the bottom did work, obviously!
 
00:12:01 Sharon: Obviously because I’m here! That wasn’t meant to be snarky!
 
00:14:06 Rachel: me too. PC
 
00:14:29 Bonnie Lewis: I always have to use the bottom link.  No biggie
 
00:14:29 Sheila Applegate: mine did not work. android phone.
 
00:14:33 Debra: Sharon, I got a warning saying the top link was a Threat! Ooooo
So I logged in with the bottom link too
 
00:14:36 Sheila Applegate: said unavailable.
 
00:21:01 Debra: Our Diocese 'moved' the Ascension to Sunday
::eyeroll::
 
00:21:23 Ashley Kaschl: Same
 
00:32:36 Sam Rodriguez: I'm reminded here of a quote by then Cardinal Wojtyla: "Freedom is the means, Love is the end." Our culture often confuses our understanding of Freedom by defining it as "freedom to" (do this or that) as opposed to "Freedom from" (Sin and our appetites, etc). And that we lose sight of the fact that our Freedom is brought to Perfection in Love. And that is it's very purpose. The Saints in Heaven still retain their Freedom. They have Freely chosen Love for all Eternity. And therein lies the relationship between this detachment, this Freedom of Heart, and our Call to Love. It seems to me that one could think of Freedom as *the medium* through which Love travels, just as a wave may travel through a medium. If we seek to grow in Love, it seems that, what's needed, is more to clear the way for Love to Move Within us and Through us, precisely by seeking this Freedom of Heart
 
00:33:50 Josie: wow
 
00:34:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: double wow!
 
00:36:24 Debra: Who's going to follow ^^that^^
 
00:39:44 Anthony: If this life is not for all, but for a comparative few, why is the monastic life presented as "if you want to obey Christ, completely detach and be a monastic?"
 
00:44:34 Josie: Is it possible that the solitude can lead to a kind of self centeredness perhaps in some kind of people? I understand that the focus on love is the thing that keeps a person safe from the danger, but what is love in this spiritual sense, with very little concrete manifestations (like others to serve or even to forgive) ? Is love in this case a focus on God? Contemplation?
 
00:44:45 Josie: sorry I hit send by accident
 
00:51:17 Josie: but it's also not simply a focus on self and becoming  "perfect", right?
 
00:57:10 Anthony: garlic, leeks
 
00:57:15 Ren: Cucumbers!
 
01:08:51 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding this, something I've found helpful to try to be grounded in is this: If it's good, God gets the credit.  I can only take credit for my mistakes. lol
 
01:15:40 Anthony: Maybe some of the self will and desire to propose oneself as great in an area is a symptom of a demonic attack on a person's worth - a subtle and constant message "you are worthless.
 
01:21:09 Ashley Kaschl: If this isn’t very coherent....I’m sorry. 😂
 
01:21:12 Ashley Kaschl: This reminds me of something in “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas á Kempis. That when we suffer, we should remember that we are “on probation” and that we shouldn’t rely on or place our hope in the world, nor seek to justify ourselves to the world who won’t always understand. I think that Catholics, who are on fire for the Lord or who are firmly in their vocations, run up against the temptation to not be misunderstood by the world, to not offend when teaching the Truth. It’s as if the temptation of vain glory today tries to be popular and holy, which is antithetical to the spiritual life. 
 
Anyway, the rest of the quote goes: “It is good for us sometimes to suffer contradiction, to be misjudged by men even though we do well and mean well. These things help us to be humble and shield us from vainglory. When to all outward appearances men give us no credit, when they do not think well of us, then we are more inclined to seek God Who sees our hearts. Therefore, a man ought to root himself so firmly in God that he
 
01:21:43 Ashley Kaschl: will not need the consolations of men.”
 
01:22:56 Sam Rodriguez: GREAT points, Ashley
 
01:26:10 Ambrose Little, OP: There is a flip side of that, too, and I think we have to be careful both ways. We can enjoy being counter-cultural and want to in a sense stick it to the “world” to show just how different we are. In that way, we are risking a kind of pride that we're better and want to show it off by being combative unnecessarily.
 
01:26:51 Ashley Kaschl: Yes 💯 👆
 
01:28:10 Rachel: lol
 
01:29:35 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:29:48 Anthony: cookie
 
01:29:53 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 
01:30:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:30:20 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. Happy to have class tonight!
01:30:21 Debra: I'm on Brave, with Avast...and Avast thinks the shortl ink is a threat
 
01:30:23 Cathy: Thank you Father! Prayers
 
01:30:33 sue and mark: good night and be blessed
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part V

Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos.  As always it is a privilege and joy to sit at the feet of the Fathers with you.
Synopsis:
We continue our reading this evening of Hypothesis 20 on the revealing of one’s thoughts to an elders. Again and again we are taught by the Fathers that this is the path to true healing for us. It is when we keep our thoughts secret, when we hide them, when we lie about them, that the devil gains a greater foothold in our lives. We are warned that God is not mocked for he sees all things and into the depths of the heart. So we are to never lie. In humility, we are to seek forgiveness and to acknowledge our thoughts, our temptations, any concerns, our desires, or even simple thoughts to our elders. When we do this our heart is also open to the Grace and action of God. The moment that we acknowledge the truth is the moment a flood of Grace comes upon us.  It is then that the demon is cast out. St Paul tells us: "Take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ." It is our good fortune to have the Fathers to show us the path by which we can do this.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:23 FrDavid Abernethy: The Evergetinos
 
00:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Center for Traditional Orthodox Studies
 
00:14:18 Fr. Miron Jr.: yes we are
 
00:14:28 Fr. Miron Jr.: she is tired of me
 
00:14:49 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163
 
00:15:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Letter D
 
00:16:14 Debra: Do we need to re-sign up?
 
00:16:37 Josie: are we allowed to send father questions outside the group?
 
00:16:48 FrDavid Abernethy: yes
 
00:16:49 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
 
00:17:02 Ren: Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
00:17:22 Josie: how do we reach you father? which email?
 
00:17:24 Ren: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
00:17:40 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com
 
00:18:13 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: hahaha
 
00:24:17 Debra: {Not raising my hand...I was shooing my dog away}
 
00:37:33 joannedavids: This is enlightening.  Very helpful.  Thank you, Fr.
 
00:44:31 Josie: were the fathers able to distinguish between evil thoughts that came from the evil one and those that came from their own thoughts and hearts? if so how?
 
00:45:12 Ambrose Little: This was before mass marketing. LOL 😄
 
00:46:54 Josie: thank you
 
00:53:12 Ren: The thought presented in the second to last sentence - that telling (thoughts) is equal to rejecting - is really fascinating. Also interesting to think about when they are what you might consider “good thoughts.” By sharing them with the Abba you are showing a willingness to submit all - the good and the bad - to the wisdom of an elder. To reject all for the sake of humility, of truth, and obedience. Sometimes even thoughts that seem very good might not be good for you at the time, or might not actually be good at all.
 
00:54:35 Josie: it's kiind of beautiful that God made it so that our salvation in interlinked with others in so many ways...
 
01:11:10 joannedavids: “Can’t see the forest for the trees.”
 
01:20:22 Ren: Links for the groups:
 
01:20:24 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
01:20:43 Ren: Business email: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
01:20:44 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMONMxs61g&t=3467s Fr. Davids Homily 29min
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part IV

Text of chat during the group: 
00:28:07 Josie: Does the first monk who said that he wanted to trust in God in the solitude of the desert demonstrate to us that God won't save someone who is alone or that this isn't the way that we approach the idea of complete trust in God? The context of my question being the mantra that we should trust only and fully in God and only he can help us.
 
00:29:51 Josie: So being completely alone isn't a sort of extra trust in God?
 
00:33:14 Anthony: Even in a non-monastic setting, being alone, outside of accountability to family and community, opens the mind to lots of thoughts or evil suggestions.  And a person can be alone in this sense either literally solitary or in a crowd like a college.  People can be severely tried when solitary in these senses.  There's something in Ecclesiastes that Father quotes, about walking alone, when you fall, who can help?  When you are with others they are even a preventative to falling.
 
00:33:36 Anthony: other people are encouragement to the heart.
 
00:45:18 Josie: is it weird to reveal our thoughts rather than actions and sins in the confessional?
 
00:45:33 Anthony: On a theological or social-theological note, this destructive sense of obedience - as I understand it, comes from Jansenism.  A Catholic Calvinism...and Calvinism focused for some reason on God's election, no place for a free love, it seems to me.
 
00:48:21 Ren: It is so powerful to compare the image of one who commands obedience put forward by Christ - a shepherd whose voice is followed, who carries those who are not strong enough to walk; one who stands in the midst of their followers as one who serves - to what you put forward just now - a hammer who drives others into a exact place by sheer force. Wow. Really amazing to reflect on.
 
00:53:45 Forrest Cavalier: μεγάλε
 
00:56:45 Ren: Satan - the relentless bartender :-D
 
00:57:42 Tyler Woloshyn: Reminds of the classic cartoon villain who keeps getting foiled by the virtuous protagonist.
 
01:04:29 Ren: I love this story so much. One of my favorites in the book so far.
 
01:04:40 Josie: me too
 
01:04:45 Ashley Kaschl: Same. It’s so good.
 
01:06:00 Josie: father does fasting help with the psychological temptations or only physical temptations of the body? hope this q makes sense
 
01:09:40 Tyler Woloshyn: We know that these texts were written in a different technological era.  Fasting seems to become more of a battle today for lay, clergy, and monastic alike given technology.  Temptations and challenges to fasts can be magnified even more now then they were in the age of the Fathers.  The devil does not need to walk down the road here, he can be at the tip of one's fingers with screen time.
 
01:10:37 Josie: someone said on Twitter "the Lord gives the solution then he allows the problem"
 
01:12:11 Josie: he was quoting a Rabbi i think, and was talking about the internet
 
01:12:46 Anthony: I think what matters is what flask you drink from - or don't.  Since 2018, the Catholic news has been consumed with obkective wrongs, which exist, but can become consumptive: 2018-2019: sex scandal. 2019, Pachademon in Vatican. 2020-2022, election , Great Reset and covid.  2022, Ukraine.  The imbalance and fixation is real but can be a poison to imbibe and gets in the way of classic spiritual food and drink.  But maybe we can turn this to our good
 
01:14:26 Anthony: and being one oriented to fixing social problems, this negative world tone affected my spiritual life.
 
01:17:06 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:55 keynote: Thank you Fr.!!
 
01:18:02 Josie: thank you father
 
01:18:07 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:18:15 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night and God bless!
 
01:18:21 Sheila Applegate: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter Two: On Detachment, Part I

One of the participants in tonight‘s group on the "Ladder of Divine Ascent" described St. John’s teaching on Detachment as a “mic drop moment.”  The psychological insight and the understanding of the fickleness of the human mind and the wiles of the ego are presented to us in such an unvarnished fashion that there is no denying the truth of them.  
Yet – there is something in this that is incredibly uplifting to the human heart. The truth though difficult to hear and even more difficult to embrace is liberating and offers freedom. To have a first taste of this in these paragraphs on Detachment is something wonderful. We begin to see that the monks were leaving behind everything within the world not because they hated the world or hated others; but because they were drawn there by He who is infinite and absolute Love. Within the human heart is an urgent longing for what God alone can offer. In Him we come to see the meaning of our own lives and who we are. We step into Reality. And even though this may be very difficult and even though we may want to avoid it more often than not, if we allow ourselves to be drawn by the Lord, allow Him to take us by the hand and lead us into the truth of His Life and the reality of His Love -  what an indescribable joy comes over the mind and heart.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:02:28 Lita's iPhone: Happy to be joining you all! I’m nursing my newborn so I’ll be without video 😊
 
00:02:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: welcome!
 
00:03:04 Ashley Kaschl: LITA! 🙌🏻
 
00:05:26 Robyn Greco: hi Father, Hi everyone
 
00:08:34 Carol Nypaver: May the fourth be with you!
 
00:25:49 Joseph Caro: The nuns in the movie Sister Act might have profited from a reading of Climacus!
 
00:30:20 Ren: I am particularly moved by the insight at the end of the last paragraph, which states that we can be tempted to disparage those in the world in order to avoid despair. Fascinating that, not possessing the faith and love necessary to find value in our life in Christ, we can turn to disparagement of others in an attempt to build ourselves up. I feel this happens a lot in our day.
 
00:33:58 Josie: so this is why the "why" behind detachment is so important..
 
00:35:11 Sam Rodriguez: Some phrases here that come to mind are "I must decrease so that Jesus may increase." Or that "It is not I who live but Christ who lives within me." That we are emptying ourselves of self, yes, but we are emptying ourselves unto the Fullness of Him. And thus, if He Within us, while Living Through us, Calls us out into the world for a Mission, then that's radically different from the Enemy shaming us for not following Him the way the Enemy says that we should, during an attack. Because, if rightfully lived, it is He Who Is Stepping into the world, through our Yes to Him. Our Yes to Him Continuing His Incarnation Through our Yes, even if it will inevitably be within the context of our own personal brokenness. Could be in the Desert. Or the "Desert" of the city. Or in the concrete realities of a Present Moment, where there is a Call to Radical Love, whatever that Moment, that Call might look like. It belongs to Him, not us. Just as *we* belong to Him, not ourselves.
 
00:46:23 Robyn Greco: ouch
 
00:49:40 Debra: What?! You mean monastic life isn't all incense and Gregorian chant...gardening, and making coffee, and beer?
 
00:49:53 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:50:50 Robyn Greco: wow...6 is what those of us today would call a mic drop moment. no beating around the bush and ever so true
 
00:54:44 Carol: can't help comparing this to the adoration and attention an expectant mother receives vs. the relentless hidden self-sacrifice of new parenthood
 
01:03:09 Lilly: One should be very mindful of their inner struggles and not enter monastic life to ‘escape’
 
01:04:26 Anthony: "Monastic" and "curmudgeon" are two distinct and different modes of life.
 
01:10:39 Robyn Greco: lol
 
01:11:30 Robyn Greco: You Father? a curmudgeon? I don't believe it.....🤣
 
01:11:42 Debra: 😆
 
01:12:26 Erick chastain: honestly I seem curmudgeonly when everyone around me is saying obscene things and I have to tell them that they are doing wrong.
 
01:13:07 Robyn Greco: I have to go, dog needs her insulin shot. Thank you Father, see you all next week
 
01:14:37 Lita's iPhone: Thank you!
 
01:14:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:05 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:06 Josie: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part III

The wisdom of the Fathers and the essential and fundamental elements of the spiritual life that they present us with is valuable beyond expression. Whether novices in the spiritual life or having struggled for many years, one is given a precious gift in reading the Evergetinos!
Synopsis: 
We picked up once again this evening with Hypothesis 20 on heeding the advice of the elders and the importance of revealing one’s thoughts without embarrassment or shame. How beautiful it is when an elder has such compassion and love (as well as patience) to help those in his charge to set before God all of their thoughts and sins. What a blessing it is when you have one who is willing to wait even years, assisting you in the spiritual life, helping you to trust ever more fully in the power of grace and in the depths of God’s mercy. The Evil One seeks to do nothing but undermine this trust in God and in one’s elder. Even when we are tortured by our sins or our thoughts and temptations we often remain silent; because the evil one convinces us how shameful such thoughts might be. The closer we get to speaking them the more he seeks to make us question the value of doing so. The father’s counsel on this is incredibly valuable. It reveals to us the wisdom of God and how it overcomes the cunning of the Evil One.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:18:25 Josie: When we have thoughts that we don't identify with the “inner self” or “inner man” but rather as false self, are we meant to 1) engage them in order to dismantle them at the root and deal with what part of us causes or wants to believe them, OR alternatively 2) do we simply ignore them/reject them as false and just re-center ourselves?
 
00:21:25 Tyler Woloshyn: This brings to mind the Psalmist when he speaks about in Psalm 136 (LXX) to deal with those sins, passions, vices by dashing them against the rock. To dash them against the Rock of Christ early on rather than much later.
 
00:23:27 Tyler Woloshyn: (I know it is a controversial psalm, but blessed are the monastics for explaining the meaning behind that psalm.)
 
00:34:15 Tyler Woloshyn: This story is very interesting when someone is held by passions, but how can one relate to those to struggle with scrupulosity in their confession?
 
00:45:04 Josie: it's ok you answered thank u
 
00:49:17 iPad (10)maureen: Is it much like Doctor ? You can have a cancer and not Know it.
 
00:49:49 iPad (10)maureen: The earlier one find a hidden illness you can recover.
 
00:52:55 Rachel: I can top that but in my humility will refrain
 
00:56:09 Anthony: These elders - are they experienced, mature Christians, or is Elder in these stories here the equivalent or presbyteros or sacerdotale - a priest?
 
00:57:01 Forrest Cavalier: The greek is Ό Γέρων
 
00:57:13 Forrest Cavalier: The old/wise one.
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Thanks, Forrest
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: That’s Greek to me.
 
00:57:19 Anthony: James
 
00:58:56 Anthony: Liberty University in the early 200's encouraged accountability partners and each dormitory hall had a supposedly mature student to be a spiritual leader
 
00:59:04 Anthony: 2000s
 
01:01:06 Rachel: I bought that book but have not read it!
 
01:01:29 iPad (10)maureen: Name of the book ?
 
01:01:29 Josie: me 2
 
01:01:41 Ren: A question about confession: In a situation where a certain sin has really taken root, and one finds it difficult even to resolve to try and amend one’s behavior,  perhaps even resistant to change, what recourse does one have? The thought comes to my mind that is is sacrilegious to go to confession not hoping or firmly intending to change, but it you can’t go to confession, what can you do? Are you just a lost cause?
 
01:02:49 Debra: Wouldn't going to confession provide the graces to help make that change?
 
01:04:10 Lilly: Orthodox Psychotherapy -author?
 
01:04:36 Anthony: Ren, I think Nietzsche actually has an important thing to say here - exert the will - not to power, but for our good. ;)
 
01:04:51 Sawyer: Confessing that lack of desire to change can sometimes bring great grace in itself.
 
01:07:14 Anthony: Lilly: https://store.ancientfaith.com/orthodox-psychotherapy
 
01:07:29 Lilly: Thank you
 
01:08:50 Forrest Cavalier: Psalm 22
 
01:09:05 Forrest Cavalier: My God why have you abandoned me
 
01:10:30 Anthony: Well FOrrest threw it out in a Cavalier manner. ;^)
 
01:11:10 Josie: seems God is always several steps ahead of us and there is always some level of darkness in the spiritual ;ife i think..
 
01:13:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Glad you became yourself again.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part II

In our reading of the Evergetinos, we picked up with Hypothesis 20 “On Obedience and Listening to the Advice of Elders.”  We are presented with the story of one monk, Iakovos, who was filled with impertinence and sought to place himself above others as a spiritual guide; this despite his lacking the fruit or obedience in his own life. The darkness and the trials of this monk grow deeper and deeper. The more resistant that he is to the guidance of others the more that the spirit of darkness takes hold of him. Then, in his moment of greatest weakness, the Enemy attacks him in such a way that he is overcome with a flood sinful thoughts. Taking matters into his own hands, rather than humbling himself before his Elder or before God, he mutilates himself. It is only the meekness and the compassion of the Elder that aids this monk in his darkness. Saint Savvas was able to apply a healing balm on every occasion of disobedience. Over and over again he applies the necessary remedy and offers intercession on behalf of his spiritual child. 
The vivid imagery in this Hypothesis is meant to draw us into a deeper and more rich understanding of obedience and its importance for the spiritual life. Our willfulness can run so deep that we find ourselves wrapped in delusion. Left to ourselves we are capable of the worst. We can betray ourselves as well as God. May God in His mercy guide us along the path of repentance and give us the grace and healing of obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:55 Mark: Some snow later tonight in MN
 
00:08:33 Lilly: Hello Fr. Blessed to be back! Happy Easter everyone!
 
00:17:31 Tyler Woloshyn: This kind of reminds me of the career centric mentality that Pope Francis have warned clergy against. Clergy trying to obtain monsignor or mitred archpriest status.
 
00:35:44 Anthony: When you take aptitude tests, clergy is considered just another job for people who like to help people. But a religious vocation is different than a career.
 
00:41:14 Forrest Cavalier: He cried out to his neighbors too late.
 
00:42:20 Ren: Is Iakovos’ failure to reveal the thoughts to an elder, and his extreme action, another manifestation of arrogance?
 
00:43:54 Tyler Woloshyn: It seems very relevant as it shows what happens in those instances where people who say need accountability partners if you will do not have the courage to admit their weakness and seek help.
 
00:45:06 Josie: For our own days, is it advisable to admit these kinds of things in the confessional? (Even if sometimes this isn't exactly a confession of a sin but thoughts/temptations)
 
00:45:13 Anthony: Is the finalty of the mutilation the problem?  Other saints ran into thickets to hurt their bodies, and they are saints.
 
00:45:42 Forrest Cavalier: You quoted St. Philip Neri in the past: "In the warfare of the flesh, only cowards gain the victory; that is to say, those who fly."
 
00:46:41 Tyler Woloshyn: "Fly you fools." Gandalf.
 
00:47:28 Debra: Tyler, you are not the only 'nerd' lol
 
00:47:36 Ren: The nerds: Tyler, and everyone who got the joke :-D
 
00:48:48 Tyler Woloshyn: Glad that we are in good company. :)
 
00:50:34 Tyler Woloshyn: Post-Lenten shout out to the Life of St. Mary of Egypt.
 
00:50:38 Anthony: OK, is our goal then to walk about in life with a serene sould, and not be bothered by any temptation of body or mind, not distressing ourselves, but letting it pass?
 
00:54:07 Forrest Cavalier: There is a connection to obedience mentioned in this story: he did not obey the monastic rule against self mutilation.
 
01:05:05 Ren: On the topic of penance, I find that penance, among other things, is valuable in revealing that extent to which a true spirit of repentance as been fostered in the heart. When I embrace my penance and perform it soon after confession I am eager to apply spiritual medicine to my soul. Often, however, I am reluctant to accept penance, anxious about what the priest will give me, and am slow in performing it. Then, it is revealed to me that the spirit of repentance really hasn’t been fostered well in my heart
 
01:06:42 Forrest Cavalier: The consequences in this story were more lenient than the Old Testament law: Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly,e whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my namel that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
 
01:08:38 Tyler Woloshyn: I felt the part where St. Savvas mentioned to Iavokos that if he could not manage a pot of beans he could not manager a monastery. It is simple yet very enlightening.  God gives us so many graces and gifts, yet at times I know where I can do much better and not looking to throw out those pot of beans when frustration over life goals or discernment does not work out immediately.  Humility is a very wonderful thing.  Even the smallest of actions can be teaching moments.
 
01:10:36 Debra: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime
 
01:10:50 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
01:12:42 Ren: Iakovos does seem like a bit of a hopeless case. I wonder if his quick death after this last act of repentance was not an act of mercy on the part of the Lord. Take him out before he can screw up again
 
01:14:24 Tyler Woloshyn: Will never look at a pot of beans in the same way. Will think of St. Savvas from now on.  Especially going through a discernment process.
 
01:14:59 Anthony: I'd like to see us Catholics build on the theme of St. John Damascene, repentence is turning away from unnatural living and towards the life God intended for us.  That is a kind of repentence that I could more easily understand, instead of the "afflict yourself" meaning that is perennially popular among Catholics in different rites.
 
01:16:50 Erick Chastain: "but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection" 1 cor 9:27
 
01:19:35 Ashley Kaschl: It’s kinda long. Sorry 😂 I have thoughts.
 
01:19:38 Ashley Kaschl: Some of these holes Iakovos has dug himself, even to the severity of mutilating himself and being cast out of his community, are reminding me of the reflections of St. Bernard of Clairvaux on the Song of Songs, specifically the kisses prior to “let him kiss me with the kiss of his lips”, which to the angels and Saints seems to be an offensive desire. Like Iakovos wanting for more than he is currently trustworthy of. 
 
It is for this reason that St. Bernard goes into the prior kisses: namely the kiss of the feet of Christ. That Iakovos would have to humble himself under the instruction of Savvas, and return to the feet of Christ to kiss His wounds for the realization of the cost of his sins, and then extend his arm up, that Christ might draw him upwards so that he could eventually kiss his hands, entering into the life of virtue and friendship with Christ, hence the fruit of reparation.
 
01:24:15 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:38 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night everyone. God bless!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part VII

Thank you one and all who participated in tonight's group. Your comments brought to life the already powerful writing of St. John Climacus in an extraordinary way!
Synopsis:
This evening we read the final four paragraphs of Step One of the Ladder “On the renunciation of the world.”  Climacus emphasizes the importance of letting the beginning of the spiritual life be good and strong so that the end of our lives may correspond to the start. To begin well is to end well. Thus, we want to begin the spiritual life with zeal and fervor for the Lord and without a fear of mortifying the flesh or depriving oneself. Lack of courage can mask itself as prudence and so prevent us from engaging in the ascetical life. As one Saint said, “Heaven is not for cowards.“ We are engaged in a spiritual battle and we wage war against principalities and powers who are relentless and seeking to undermine our efforts. Our determination then, to serve Christ, must be unambiguous. Whatever state we find ourselves in we must zealously pursue God and His love. All are called holiness and while we must be discerning about the path forward that we take we must clearly understand that we must invest ourselves more and more each day. 
St John also emphasizes the importance of community. There are certain dangers in traveling the spiritual path alone. If one falls -  there is no one around who will pick him up out of despondency. In this regard, St.John refers to the Lord's teaching: “For where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them.” 
St. John concludes by asking one question: “Who is the faithful and wise (monk) person?” It is he who has kept fervor unabated until the end of his life and has not ceased daily to add fire to fire, fervor to fervor, zeal to zeal, love to love. It is such a beautiful way to end the first step on renunciation. What we renounce we renounce for one purpose - to free us in order to love God unimpeded.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:40 Robyn Greco: Hi Father, Hi everyone. Hope everyone is well this evenng
 
00:08:52 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: hello Robyn
 
00:12:53 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Happy Easter -- Great to be here -- Alleluia
 
00:13:17 Rachel: Happy Easter!
 
00:19:33 Anthony: In my opinion, only great love can motivate a person to do what is repugnant - self sacrifice, or even a Cross.  So maybe Love can overcome spiritual sloth.  You  need to find the love, though.  It must be almost tangible, more tangible than self-love or false prudence.
 
00:22:22 Robyn Greco: 2 small meals and one regular meal, is that really a fast though? it doesn't seem to be
 
00:24:21 Ren: This is why we should never resent those who enter the vineyard at the ninth hour, so to speak. There are so many great things to be gained by spending one’s youth, and whole life, laboring for Christ.
 
00:25:55 Debra: What was that book/author again?
 
00:26:38 Ren: Adalbert de Vogue
 
00:26:42 Eric Williams: A point worth considering: hundreds of years ago, it was normal to go to bed shortly after sunset, sleep 3 hours or so, get up for maybe an hour, and sleep again for 3 hrs or so. Humans haven't had biphasic sleep since the invention of electric light. Vigils seem less extreme when viewed in light of biphasic sleep.
 
00:26:49 Robyn Greco: Does St John have any of these spiritual actions for those who are not well in body or does he not get into that? Thank You
 
00:27:01 Debra: Thank you, Ren
 
00:28:11 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Benefits of fasting for the spiritual life:
 
00:29:07 Andreea and Anthony: I have always been troubled by devotions to saints that self-mutilate and that is exalted as proof of their holiness. Example St. Rose of Lima, a saint from my birth city. What you said about having the right balance between disciplining the body and torturing the body struck a chord with me. What are we to make of these saints?
 
00:31:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: We recognize that everything comes as a gift; Fasting purifies our eating; Fasting calls us to hunger for the Lord; Fasting deepens our sense of hope and expectation; Fasting stirs our repentance and compunction; Fasting controls our desires; Fasting intensifies our prayer.
 
00:35:15 Eric Williams: "Do not test the Lord, your God." Taking up extreme practices willy-nilly is testing God - a temptation for which Jesus demonstrated refusal.
 
00:35:50 Sam Rodriguez: Father, you made the distinction between mortifying the bodily passions and spiritual passions. St. John of the Cross represents that division as a progression. For example, in Ascent of Mount Carmel, it's a movement from the "Night of the Senses" (which is more bodily & our sensory engagement) to the Night of the Soul (leading to growth in Faith), then Night of the Memory (growth in Hope) and then Night of the Will (growth in Charity) as a culminating moment to the Journey. Similarly the first 8 chapters of Dark Night of the Soul is concerned specifically with the "spiritual" versions of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which presumably is for those who, if I'm not mistaken, have already passed through the Night of the Senses. If I'm wrong in giving this account, please correct me. But I'm curious whether St. John Climacus and other Desert Fathers would see this "progressive" approach as overstated--that it must all be addressed simultaneously and whether the same would apply for pursuit of the Theological Virtues.
 
00:37:43 Rachel: And Theresa of Avila! Among others..
 
00:38:17 Andreea and Anthony: Btw, what page/paragraph are we on?
 
00:38:31 Ren: Page 59. Paragraph 25
 
00:38:37 Andreea and Anthony: Thanks!
 
00:38:49 Rachel: Thank you Sr. Barbara
 
00:44:36 Ambrose Little: But he's gonna keep sayin it. 😄
 
00:45:12 carolediclaudio: 😊
 
00:46:06 Eric Williams: As I said above, vigils were less eye-popping for people - even children - when humans engaged in biphasic sleep (before electric light).
 
00:46:38 Robyn Greco: Biphasic sleep?
 
00:46:58 Debra: Robyn....Two distinct sleep periods per night
 
00:47:07 Robyn Greco: Thank you
 
00:48:56 Debra: CCD in the 70s...just be kind to each other
 
00:49:19 Sean: And make a felt banner
 
00:49:25 Robyn Greco: Do you think that's why we don't really have many saints today?
 
00:49:50 Debra: Sean...I'm feeling attacked LOL
 
00:50:10 Robyn Greco: You are a rare breed these days Father. Thankful for you
 
00:50:18 carolediclaudio: What page?
 
00:50:35 Carol Nypaver: 59
 
00:50:45 carolediclaudio: Thanks Carol!
 
00:51:00 Carol Nypaver: 😍
 
00:52:16 Ambrose Little: It takes time for canonizations to happen, usually. There are very many processes in progress—the Vatican office that handles this has more than it can handle, and quite regular canonizations of folks even in the last 60 years. And that's just the recognized ones.
 
00:53:20 Vicki Nichols: Bl. Jerzy Popiełuszko, was martyred in 1984
 
00:54:00 Debra: Carlos Acutis was beatified in the 2000s
 
00:55:30 Art: Messenger of the Truth.  Great film on Fr. Jerzy P.!!
 
00:56:38 Vicki Nichols: yes it is a good film!
 
00:57:27 Robyn Greco: sadly, today, there are a lot of us left alone in our spiritual walk, we are parched In the desert
 
00:57:51 Anthony: St. Maximos Skete, Palmyra / Fluvanna County, VA.
 
01:01:07 Andreea and Anthony: What is meant by this? It sounds like relying on emotions, which are passing. Many times the fire and fervor are just not felt.
 
01:02:59 Bonnie Lewis: And we must do this each and every day. upon awakening.
 
01:03:54 Ren: I don’t understand the second to last sentence in paragraph 24. “For you will scarcely find anyone…who is determined to mortify his flesh, although he might deprive himself of many pleasant dishes”? Could you explain this a little more? How is this form of deprivation not a good example of mortification?
 
01:07:20 Debra: Do you need a spiritual director to do a daily fast?
 
01:07:26 Debra: oops
 
01:09:16 Art: To Love Fasting  downloadable PDF  https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting
 
01:09:40 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Art!
 
01:10:06 Debra: Great discussion, I need to go....parish council...blergh
Bye!
 
01:10:44 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank you for the link Art.
 
01:10:57 Anthony: Yet, food is art.  It is true, good and beautiful - there is a natural law associated with food.  We don't whitewash walls like Puritans do (well, perhaps Carthusians do) but we have and celebrate iconography.  Judicious use of God's gifts within mortification is important.  Beautiful material art can degenerate to kitsch; beautiful food can degenerate to sumptuousness.  But, we LOVE icons and we LOVE food, both made and appreciated judiciously, per natural law and spiritual law.
 
01:11:18 Art: YW sister!
 
01:12:24 Anthony: Thanks, Father. :^)
 
01:14:01 Ren: Norway
 
01:14:15 Ren: Best. Movie. Ever
 
01:14:25 Sam Rodriguez: SUCH a great movie
 
01:14:32 Bonnie Lewis: I just watched the movie last week.  It's a beautiful movie.
 
01:14:49 Robyn Greco: Whats the name of the movie again? Thank You
 
01:14:56 Bonnie Lewis: It brought them a love for one another.
 
01:14:57 Ren: Babette’s Feast
 
01:15:03 Robyn Greco: Thank you Ren
 
01:15:06 Anthony: I would LOVE this movie.  Food is a gift we can give to others.
 
01:15:31 Ren: ““Stand on the edge of the abyss and when you feel that it is beyond your strength, break off and have a cup of tea.” - Fr. Sophrony
 
01:16:22 Cindy Moran: Great session Fr Abernathy
 
01:16:25 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you!!!
 
01:16:42 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Father so good
 

The Evergetinos -Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part I

This evening we started a new Hypothesis, number 20. The focus is on receiving the advice of the fathers and how important it is not to develop an individualistic approach to the spiritual life. Asceticism can very quickly become something of our own making. Whenever we are guided simply by our own judgment, spiritual practices can very easily lead us into pride. The longer that we are in such a state, the greater the danger of falling into delusion. One who thinks he is above the elders’ or anyone else’s judgment, he who seeks no one else’s counsel, will come to experience the greatest darkness. We are part of the living body of the Church and God has given us that which is most essential for our sanctity. Despite the darkness that we see within the world and sometimes see within the life of the Church, we do not want to lose sight of God‘s Providential care and the guidance of the Spirit. Nor do we want to lose sight of those God has put on our path to help support us and guide us. Such an attitude requires from us an openness to the guidance of the Spirit in our lives. Above all it requires humility. Our path as Christian men and women is distinctly the path of humility, the path of the cross, and so we must never be deluded to the extent that we place our own judgment above others.  In the end such an attitude will eventually lead us to place our judgment above God himself. From such a tragic darkness - we may never emerge.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:16:39 Anthony: Look at the history of Family Radio for a contemporary example.
 
00:18:33 John White: O felix culpa! O happy carbuncle!
 
00:18:52 carolnypaver: 🤣
 
00:22:20 Josie: you said that the reason he fell was because he did not listen to the fathers however we do not have fathers nowadays therefore we also have no one to listen to
 
00:29:11 Ambrose Little: We have have a great treasure trove of saintly writings to learn from and be disciples to—much more so than in the time of the early desert fathers—and to complement Scripture, and we also have our pastors, our bishops, who often provide contemporary guidance on things that are new and/or relevant to our time that may not have been so previously.  We also can have spiritual friends who can encourage us and build us up—many lay institutes, fraternities, and so forth, as well as less formal spiritual friendships.
 
00:29:54 Ren: God bless translators!
 
00:35:11 Ambrose Little: We also have this group! 🙂
 
00:35:32 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
00:35:53 Ren: Yes! And a Father with a very authoritative beard to listen to :-D
 
00:36:48 Carol Nypaver: “Abba David of the Beard”😇
 
00:37:47 Anthony: To modify something attributed to Padre Pio:  "If you think I would make a mistake, do you think God would?"  Go out with a good will, be determined to be pliable to God, try to exert right reason, be cheerful & hopeful; God will take care of you, lead you along, bring you to the right people (for your instruction and for you to help), even if not an "elder."  (And beware Jansenism, the scourge of 'traditional' Catholic spiritual formation, especially among French and Americans.  I like a priest-monk friend's praise of peasant spirituality; for me, it fits.)
 
00:37:56 Ambrose Little: He's amazing. I love all his stuff I've seen (Fr. Cantalamessa).
 
00:41:14 Anthony: yes
 
00:43:12 Josie: Anthony do you mean also not to overthink things?
 
00:43:26 Anthony: that's part of it, Josie
 
00:43:33 Bridget McGinley: As a wound care nurse, I have seen women come in that have sincerely regretted having breast augmentation procedures due to the consequences of complications and you can see and feel the mark of remorse in them for this vanity. This story about the wayward monk resonates with me because I have seen this exact thing that is written. How do we recognize pride of heart when there are so many paths both good and  bad? Like fasting and prayer life, how do we avoid excesses? How do we know (i.e. signs) that we are being balanced and humble in our spiritual life if we don't have that spiritual father to discuss the details of our lives to?
 
00:47:53 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father.
 
00:53:09 Anthony: Historically, Franciscans rescued Catholics in danger of falling into Catharism and Waledensianism.
 
01:01:55 Ambrose Little: It seems like we can lose sight of the Providence of God. We can focus on the lessening of a particular kind of spiritual guidance, or particular traditions and pious practices, or particular ways of celebrating the liturgy. But what is God giving us in place of them? How is God calling us to grow and live in our own day? What faith-filled friends has he put in our lives that we overlook or take for granted, who could help us grow? What might we be missing? Surely God is not leaving us without his gifts and the necessary helps we need to live our lives of faith? Are we insisting that God help us in the way we want rather than the way He wants? I think folks here in this group are taking advantage of one of the great gifts God is giving us today.
 
01:03:59 Rachel: LOL Yep
 
01:07:04 Ren: These stories prove so perfectly, via negativa, the teachings of the last hypothesis on obedience as the sure path to the virtues (that also protects us from pride). I frequently find myself formulating elaborate prayer rules, being very satisfied with them, and then failing miserably. So, the only thing I got out of it was an hour of pride. It seems that taking one’s spiritual life into one’s own hands is always a very dangerous way and that, unless under the instruction of a director, one should keep to the simple way of the church’s teachings, and its guidance concerning prayer. Nothing more. Nothing “creative”. The spiritual benefits will never outweigh the danger of pride. It reminds me of Philip Neri, and his disciple who insisted on keeping vigil and ended up harming himself permanently.
 
01:09:09 Ambrose Little: I personally prefer paleo prayer.
 
01:09:11 Eric Williams: Exodus 90 🙄
 
01:13:02 Rachel: Simple......lol ..oook
 
01:13:09 Anthony: Isn't my river in Syria a while much nicer than the dirty Jordan River?
 
01:13:26 Ambrose Little: Simple but not easy! 😄
 
01:13:57 Anthony: Master, if the prophet asked you to do something great, wouldn't you have done it?  So Naaman bathed in the simple, dirty Jordan and was a changed man
 
01:15:03 Ashley Kaschl: I think this individualism we were talking about can also lead to a touch of willful ignorance of certain areas of the faith within groups of people. I’ve encountered a lot of adults who cannot be roused to investigate potentially fruitful areas of the spiritual life because “it isn’t for them” or they “don’t want to go down that road.” There’s a sentiment of “I pray, I love God, and I’m faithful, and that’s good enough for me.” But I think that is a dangerous place to be in the spiritual life, because I don’t think we should ever be “content” with where we are. Individualistic faith seems to sometimes lead to mediocrity, which could also be a subtle symptom of pride; to cling covetously to the spiritual life we’ve “made” for ourselves.
 
01:17:06 Josie: does anyone know a good online bible study?...
 
01:17:31 Ambrose Little: Fr. Mike's Bible in a Year is great from everyone I know who’s done/doing it.
 
01:17:54 Josie: thank you, but i meant i group like this one..?
 
01:20:15 Ambrose Little: or only pay attention to the bits that agree with what we already think!
 
01:21:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
Forrest Cavalier:
I wanted to share a connection I made to Hypothesis 20. The topic summary for Hypothesis 20 is in the 1783 edition in greek, translated as"That no man should trust in himself for anything, but should listen to the counsel of the fathers in all things, and should confess the secrets of his heart without concealing anything."
But it seems to me that the first few stories are monks cutting themselves off from the goodness of community. And some of it can seem very brutal and harsh, and that is why I am writing.
I was also reading this week St. John Chrysostom Homily 12 on Acts. (Next Sunday the reading from Acts is immediately after the story of Ananias and Sapphira. I wondered about Peter's shadow, and the homily covers both stories in Acts and shows that they are integrally connected.)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210112.htm
I think the ideas in Homily 12 are connected to the stories at the start of Hypothesis 20, and I found this accidentally. We in the modern church do not have too many experiences of people being cast out of community, and maybe we even have frustration that more people are not cast out. But we want it to be medicinal. We want people to be forgiven and reconciled and rejoined into community.
As I read the first parts of Hypothesis 20, my gut reaction is difficulty in seeing the stories as being a good model of community discipline.
But then I happened to read Homily 12, which makes a strong argument that it is not extreme that prideful people are cut off from goodness, and that their wounding of the community is partially healed by casting them out. Homily 12 says that there was a superabundance of grace in the community after Ananias and Sapphira were cut off from the land of the living, and there would have been no benefit to let them live longer than they did. That's harsh! Yet, the superabundance included even Peter's shadow being salvific, which Homily 12 says was a sign greater than what Christ himself performed, a partial fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the greater signs they would perform in his name!
And then when I went searching for "pride" in scripture, I found many other Bible passages with similar harsh consequences for being so prideful. (I found these with my search tool, and selected some of them. I included the Mt 25:21 because of the story about the pot of beans, which I think you probably will not get to read tonight, but maybe.)
Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly, whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment.
Prov 16:2 All one’s ways are pure* in one’s own eyes, but the measurer of motives is the LORD.
Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day.
Prov 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the LORD; be assured that none will go unpunished.
Prov 16:18 Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Mt 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’
1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part VI

We picked up this evening with Step One “On Renunciation of the World”. St. John‘s focus is on entering into the spiritual life, the ascetical life, fully. We are not to make excuses out of our past sins or let them become impediments to our engaging in the spiritual battle. Psychologically they can become exactly that. Shame can make us hold back from opening ourselves to God and the healing that He alone offers. Likewise, fear of what lies ahead and the discipline involved can keep us from investing ourselves fully. Rather, we are to respond as if we were called by an earthly king; eagerly leaving everything to go to him and remaining alert lest he should call us day or night. We would never give ourselves over to sloth or cowardice knowing that we would find ourselves under the king’s judgment. Thus, we are to enter into the spiritual life unfettered by worldly concerns. Whether one is a monk or living in the world, one must have God as the beginning and end of all things - the very center of our existence. He must be desired and loved above all things. 
If this is true then we will charge into the “good fight” with joy and love without being afraid of our enemies, the demons. They know the movements of the mind and the heart, the patterns of behavior that they observe within us and whether or not we are scared. Therefore, John tells us, we must enter into the battle courageously for no one fights with a plucky fighter. 
Naturally St. John begins by focusing on the early moments of the ascetical life. God by design protects the novice in the spiritual life in order to keep him from falling into despondency. He hides the difficulty of the contest. However, if God sees a courageous soul He will allow him to experience conflict and to be in embattled in order that he might be crowned all the sooner. Thus, God will allow us to be tested if it will perfect our love and virtue and if He sees our zeal for Him.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:34 Robyn Greco: i could listen to you preach anytime Father, because you're such an excellent teacher
 
00:18:20 Ren: The number of men who started chuckling just then was pretty fantastic. Caught on camera! :-D
 
00:18:40 Debra: 😄
 
00:18:40 Cathy: i was thinking the same
 
00:24:28 Sam Rodriguez: Have heard it said before “if we don’t make time for prayer, we’ll never find time for prayer.”
 
00:24:48 Debra: Is removing prayer time, and saying that we are too busy, a sign of spiritual warfare....or 'just' allowing our will to 'win?
 
00:25:16 Debra: Sorry...I don't know how to do the digital hand lol
 
00:25:57 Carol Nypaver: Go to “reactions”
 
00:26:20 Debra: Oh! Thanks, Carol!
 
00:26:32 Carol Nypaver: 😇
 
00:26:56 Ambrose Little: Alt+Y on Win; Opt+Y on Mac
 
00:27:16 Debra: Thank  you!
 
00:27:23 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
00:29:24 Ambrose Little: Did you really go to college if you never pulled an all nighter?? 🤔
 
00:29:35 Debra: Yes! Fr. D, I've experienced that...a peace when I've pushed through my will, to pray
 
00:30:19 Vicki Nichols: I never pulled an all nighter either
 
00:31:05 Carol Nypaver: Same, Vicki.  I can’t function without sleep.
 
00:38:38 Sheila Applegate: This. Above. Not because I am an asetic but I can't function as a human without 7 hours plus. Carol. :)
 
00:39:37 Carol Nypaver: In living the Gospel, how do you NOT offend people?
 
00:44:25 RiccardoO: “You will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven” has an interesting ring to it. Not far, but not yet in the Kingdom. Am I correct to interpret the list in this paragraph as the starting point? Is there another step that Climacus is not mentioning here, along the lines of the invitation of Jesus to the young rich man, “if you want to be perfect..”?
 
00:49:16 RiccardoO: Thank you father.
 
00:50:30 Rachel: LOL Nope, that would be me.
 
00:53:56 Robyn Greco: Ive lived on anxiety almost all my life but recently when I slow down and give it all to the Lord the fear leaves, literally, its holding onto that,  that is the hard part
 
00:54:45 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I heard that the demons can't read your mind.  Is that true?
 
00:56:35 Debra: I wonder if Fr. Rippenger has talked about whether or not demons can read our minds
 
00:56:54 Robyn Greco: He has Debra
 
00:57:38 Robyn Greco: If you search on YouTube Father Rippenger you'll find talks he's done
 
00:58:24 Robyn Greco: I keep hearing about this "centering prayer" stuff but have no idea what it is
 
00:59:57 Debra: Robyn, I have one of his books...I went to get it lol
 
01:00:44 Debra: Yes....a 'little knowledge' is a dangerous thing lol
 
01:00:53 Robyn Greco: I've been told it's dangerous so I think I'll just keep staying away from it
 
01:01:34 Sam Rodriguez: Fr Ripperger gives an answer very similar to Fr Abernethy. One element that Fr Ripperger emphasizes is that they can access our memory and feed “thoughts” into our minds (for lack of a better term) and create confusion within us between our own inner voice and theirs
 
01:01:35 Ren: I love your thought about the problem being our over-reliance on ourselves. If we are weak, we are weak; that is not the problem, because God’s grace can work through that. Fear, and, essentially, the lack of trust in God that it exposes, is the real problem that leaves us vulnerable to demons.
 
01:03:01 Wayne: Need to attend church Services tonight.. Happy Easter everyone.
 
01:05:56 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙂
 
01:08:19 Rachel: If not only other people but demons can read us so to speak in order to attack us and pull us away from God through fear, can it be that when one by grace, little by little comes closer to Christ, in turn,  that person because of their close proximity to Christ can ward off attacks? Where a person is able to discern more easily because they have kept the waters still. I think of Saints like Saint Maximus. Where many were against him and he kept pressing on able to discern and not abandon Christ. ( E
 
01:08:42 David Robles: Dear Father David, I am an Orthodox Christian in the Patriarchate of Antioch. This coming Sunday is Palm Sunday for us. Next week is Holy Week. I would like to wish everyone a blessed Easter. Christ is Risen! Truly, He is risen! We sing an ancient hymn,
 
01:09:50 David Robles: Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. 🙏😀
 
01:09:54 Carol Nypaver: Easter Blessings, David!🐣
 
01:10:47 Michael Shuman: Amen, David.
 
01:11:33 Cathy: Thank you David  Palm Sunday Blessings and have a Holy Lent.
 
01:11:59 Ashley Kaschl: There’s a good book by the late Fr. Gabriele Amorth called “An Exorcist Explains the Demonic: The Antics of Satan and His Army of Fallen Angels” and it might clear up what demons are able and not able to do. 😁
 
01:12:02 Sam Rodriguez: When our sufferings and trials seem to pull us farther from God and hurt our relationship with God, is it perhaps our own preconceived notion of what is a “good” thing to happen vs a “bad” thing ultimately the source of that wedge? Given that any sufferings or trials that God Permits, we can trust that He Has Covered them all in a greater Good
 
01:12:32 Sam Rodriguez: Grace
 
01:14:23 Carol Nypaver: Thanks, Ashley.
 
01:14:55 Ambrose Little: St. Paul spoke of something like this as a thorn in his side that he beseeched God to take away, but God said, “my grace is sufficient for you; my power is perfected in your weakness.”
 
01:15:01 Robyn Greco: Been trying to find a spiritual director for years,  they are,  sadly, a rare breed these days
 
01:16:35 Robyn Greco: We see across the street, God sees 20 miles ahead of us
 
01:16:56 Sam Rodriguez: I’m reminded of a prayer that Mother Teresa prayed regularly: “Heavenly Father, if there’s anything I’m doing that’s not your Holy Will, please let it fall apart in front of me.”
 
01:18:13 Bonnie Lewis: I love that Sam.
 
01:18:49 Sam Rodriguez: 🙂
 
01:18:56 Debra: ❤️
 
01:18:56 Rachel: Yes, lots of baggage affects our vision. Throw it overboard!
 
01:21:34 Babington (or Babi): Thanks be to God
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XIX, Part IV

Tonight, I have to say, was one of the most beautiful groups on the Evergetinos that we have had to date. I do not say this lightly given how wonderful the past groups have been; but this hypothesis (19) opens up for us the meaning of obedience in such a way that one begins to understand that it is a virtue to be loved precisely because it draws us into love. 
Obedience is therapeutic; it brings about healing for the soul. It place one in a right relationship with God and so heals the wounds of sin. Obedience leads to intimacy; he who does the will of My Father in heaven is my mother, my brother, my sister. We are drawn into the most intimate relationship with a Most Holy Trinity, Christ tells us explicitly, so much so that He and the Father will come to us and serve us when we have been faithful. 
Indeed we already know the fruit of this in every celebration in Holy Mass. We need to only ask ourselves: “Who is it that sits at this table and who is it that serves?”  Christ has made himself the obedient One and through His obedience has given us all; nourishing us upon His life and love. Our obedience allows us to respond in kind; it removes every impediment to our giving and receiving love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:05:53 Rachel: Hola everyone.
 
00:07:56 Rachel: Road rage?
 
00:24:45 Ambrose Little: I remember reading St. Francis de Sales recommending that readily assenting to requests, even of our inferiors (e.g., even one's small children), is a kind of obedience. It is submitting our will to that of another.
 
00:26:23 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: Elder Paisios is a great example of this. giving over his will to a small child in an act of obedience
 
00:29:11 Daniel Allen: Would it be correct to equate obedience then as laying aside one’s own ego and preference to respond to the need of the other? Not to over simplify the topic but also trying to understand the common theme among the examples presented.
 
00:30:38 Rachel: It seems in this type of obedience to the reality of the person right in front of you God is not only trying to teach you something but He is offering Himself! This is the perfect example of what St. Maximus just said
 
00:34:18 Fr. Ben Butler: Yes, agreed. Well said about confession.
 
00:34:59 Ambrose Little: I think so, Daniel. It's a sacrifice of ego on behalf of another. Easier said than done!
 
00:35:06 Daniel Allen: Sorry question is above just prior to Rachel’s
 
00:38:41 Rachel: Wow
 
00:43:54 Forrest Cavalier: Is there a footnote about the camel in your English translation?
 
00:51:12 Forrest Cavalier: Marriage vocations are delayed, too.
 
00:52:16 David Robles: Father David, maybe it would be useful to point out that we do not obey the commandments as an exercise in ethics, or finishing a to do list, a set of rules, a legalistic requirement. For the Fathers , obedience to the commandments is something dynamic, nothing less than our participation in the Life of the Holy Trinity. The commandments are also therapeutic. Following them heals us. Finally we have the promise of the Lord Himself who in the gospel of John tells us, "whoever obeys my commandments is the one who loves Me... And the Lord promises that He and His Father will come into the heart of such a one and dwell in him.
 
00:55:47 Rachel: Obedience seems to be very closely related to purity of heart.  David Robles just expanded on that point I think.
 
00:55:52 Rachel: I'm so sorry!
 
00:57:17 Ambrose Little: John 5:19; 31 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise…. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”  John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Divine union is often seen as the culmination of the contemplative life.
 
01:02:44 Rachel: What if one ( no this is not pertaining to me) finds  there is a request or advice given by someone that contradicts what their conscience tells them? What if the person is a confessor or spiritual director? For a parent or spouse or friend this seems pretty clear cut but a confessor or spiritual director?
 
01:02:57 Rachel: LOL
 
01:04:37 Erick chastain: it is interesting reflecting on obedience after palm Sunday. I found myself wanting to make more sacrifices for Jesus after seeing how much our Lord lowered himself for me.
 
01:09:12 Ashley Kaschl: Seems like Newman is on the mind, because these paragraphs and sections are reminding me of the last part of a quote by St John Henry Newman, 
 
“Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. 
 
If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.”
 
It seems that obedience is tied up, then, in trust and hope, and that these sections we’re reading demand a sort of stretching of our trust in God’s plan and will for our lives to its limits so that God can show us the depths where we might find joy in our obedience no matter the circumstance.
 
01:10:02 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry 😂
 
01:10:24 Carol Nypaver: My favorite.  🙏🏻
 
01:11:32 Rachel: No, its my favorite! Newman probably loves you more though.
 
01:12:43 Carol Nypaver: 🙃
 
01:13:03 Ambrose Little: If we zoom out from seeing the Law as a long list of particular commands and rather as a guidebook to the practice of obedience, then it seems clearer the truth that Christ put forth when He said that He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. For in Him is the completion and perfection of obedience.
 
01:16:53 Carol Nypaver: Is there anything to be gained by obedience when it is done grudgingly….against one’s conscience?  My son was forced to mask for 2 full years, in seminary, hating it all the while.
 
01:17:16 Carol Nypaver: 🤪
 
01:18:28 Forrest Cavalier: Filial piety aids harmonious community, even grudgingly.
 
01:19:09 Ambrose Little: If we agree with a thing, it is more akin to following our own will than another's.
 
01:19:24 Carol Nypaver: 😲
 
01:19:54 Carol Nypaver: Thank you!
 
01:21:55 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks father!
 
01:21:58 Sharon: Do you want a correspondence by phone call, email or FB Message?
 
01:22:04 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone.  😇
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part V

As we step further into this first reflection of St. John Climacus on Renunciation, we begin to see how he paints with broad strokes. His intention is that we would begin this journey with a clarity of focus. Our asceticism is to be driven not by our own will or by fear or by hope of reward - but by love. 
So often, we can turn the ascetical life into a matter of endurance, or self-punishment rather than a means of healing and drawing us into deeper intimacy with God. Thus, all the images that John uses in this first step call us to let go of our preconceived notions of the spiritual life and of God. We are to allow Him to draw us forward and His Spirit to guide us along the path that fosters our sanctification and salvation. 
God wants us to enter this path with zeal and fervor. Love must fuel the fire within the heart that makes us run with swiftness when Christ calls us. We are to run with love and be motivated by desire. God and the pursuit of divine things cannot be set aside anything within this world as comparable in value or importance. God must be the beginning and end of all that we do. We must be ever so careful not to become calculating in our view of the spiritual life and never asceticism as another means of self-help. In fact, the self must be set aside in order that we might constantly gaze upon the face of Christ. It is Love that motivates us and beckons us and it is this Love alone that will bring us to what our heart longs for the most. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:25 Cindy Moran: Good Evening!!
 
00:09:46 kevinferrick: Yes good eve!!!
 
00:13:59 Edward Kleinguetl: In a secular culture that is at war with the values of the Gospel
 
00:23:20 iPad (10)maureen: Sorry it was on by mistake
 
00:30:12 Bridget McGinley: Wow Father, that insight is profound as with the comparison of the Biblical texts. Thank you
 
00:30:18 Eric Williams: Stone is a building's foundation. Brick structures are built on top. Should pillars be
built on bare earth? I don't know, but my guess is that doing so makes a structure vulnerable to ground eroding underneath. So, we must start our ascent will a solid foundation, for to attempt advanced ascesis too quickly would invite disaster. We might ask ourselves how firm the ground is under our ladders.
 
00:33:34 Ryan Schaefer: I think it is easy to focus on how much energy we put into putting awareness in Christ, rather than directly focusing on Christ. Does that make sense? Something that I have been thinking about this past week.
 
00:33:52 Andreea and Anthony: What page/paragraph are we at?
 
00:34:06 Anthony: 14
 
00:34:11 David Robles: Father, if a good foundation is Love and Chastity (see #8), and Innocence, fasting and temperance, which take time to learn (see#10), how can we attain to that in the beginning to be used as a foundation? In other writings Love is the summit of the spiritual life. What kind or measure of love do we need at the beginning? How is that love different from the kind of love that is our goal?
 
00:34:13 Carol Nypaver: 56. 14
 
00:36:58 Joseph Caro: Wow, I really love your interpretation of #14 Father. I thought at first it was good to build on stones. . .but your interpretation made me notice that the first two people are building structures (a stable dwelling place, either way  -- pillars on bare ground might not be within building codes but it would make a house anyway) whereas the third is running free. That's a strange juxtaposition that is only illuminated by your explanation.
 
00:37:13 David Robles: Thank you Father. That makes sense!
 
00:39:47 Eric Williams: I don't mean to belabor the point, but I may have insight as a runner. Attempting to run a race or a hard workout without warming up first could lead to either injury or poor performance. So, this metaphor doesn't strike me as very different from the others.
 
00:40:49 Sam Rodriguez: We live in a time of celebrity Priests and Catholic speakers that can often engender a cult of personality, self-promotion, and product-mindedness in much of our current catechetical offerings. When one contrasts that phenomenon against what St John Climacus, it seems to point to some concerning implications as to the spirit as to how current and future generation of Catholics might be formed, if not checked
 
00:41:39 Rachel: This is a pernicious temptation where when one is trying to avoid multiplicity they are in fact focusing too much on self
 
00:41:39 Sam Rodriguez: *contrasts that phenomenon against what St. John Climacus is saying
 
00:42:42 Andreea and Anthony: Everyone is needed in the Lord’s kingdom. My wife and I have benefited greatly from Bishop Barron and Fr. Mike Smitz, Fr. Dave Pivonka, etc
 
00:45:22 Anthony: Simplicity vs multiplicity. It may be better to smoke or drink in peace of heart on one's own porch than to listen to many Catholic teachers on YouTube.
 
00:46:03 Sam Rodriguez: Oh I agree, Andrea and Anthony. And I'm not saying its intrinsically bad. But I'm saying it *can* be bad... and i'm not pointing to any particular Priest/Speaker... and quickly acknowledge that many are wonderful and holy... but i'm speaking to the aggregate impact that such phenomenon can have to people seeking to give their life to ministry.... the glitz and allure of celebrity can be distracting... and launching a ministry such as that can sometimes rely upon self-promotion, which inherently carries spiritual risk and must be checked...
 
00:46:33 Andreea and Anthony: Judge not that you may not be judged. We cannot know how God is acting in someone else’s souls
 
00:48:26 Sam Rodriguez: If you re-read what I'm saying in those past two comments, there is no judgment intended to be expressed. This is merely a caution flag being waived. Nothing more.
 
00:48:29 Ren: My mind is also turned to the man found building a barn on the night he is going to die, and to Christ speaking of the destruction of the physical temple, and the enduring nature of the temple of his body. Everything in the New Testament, and here in this chapter, points us towards a less earthly, less secure (in one sense) way, and towards total abandon to the person of Christ.
 
00:52:01 Anthony: And it came to dust because it was intended to receive Messiah.  But when Messiah was rejected, the earthly glory was dismissed..  It's a warning for our cathedrals and basilicas too.
 
00:52:16 Robyn Greco: sorry im late
 
00:58:12 Sam Rodriguez: Amen, Father. Thank you
 
01:04:01 Ambrose Little: ❤️
 
01:05:51 Robyn Greco: i lost my spot can someone tell me where on page 57 we are? thank you
 
01:06:08 Rachel: I wonder at the examples of monks who fell away because of the lack of clarity Fr. Abernathy was speaking of a few minutes ago. The clarity Father A speaks of seems to be one received at every moment, from Our Lord through union with Him in whatever degree and capacity we are able to in that moment.                
 
 In relation to St. John C., we will be pulled down by fears manifested in different idols and desires. The labor and grief also seem to be the pain that comes from the Divine Sculptor chipping away our illusions, of self and more importantly God Himself. Consumed by God Himself Also, ! I am not too sure what sublimation, that you mentioned means, so I will have to look up what you meant and how that related to what your were saying and how it relates.
 
 
01:06:15 Erick chastain: the joy of virtue should not exclude tears of compunction though
 
01:06:55 Rachel: Yes, Erick, a joyful sorrow. :)
 
01:07:43 Rachel: I was thinking the same thing. btw and am not afraid to say it lol
 
01:08:25 Rachel: What is peace?
 
01:12:37 Andreea and Anthony: Listening to the story about the Franciscan whose gift to the poor was destroyed by them before they could benefit, should we draw the conclusion that building on a large scale for others is always a mistake and a way of self-aggrandizement? For example, should Pope Saint John Paul the Great not have started any of the “big projects” he started such as World Youth Day, visiting so many countries, the work of the Catechism, Theology of the Body, etc … Should Saint Teresa of Calcutta not have built any of the homes for the poor? THAT was the way SHE was called to be the face of Christ in the world …
 
01:12:55 Andreea and Anthony: From Anthony: Regarding the idea that as soon as we try to enter the kingdom things go south, that seems very discouraging. Why would anyone then attempt it? It seems to me that God allows trials in accordance to what we need for the salvation of our souls, not allowing the devil to crush us immediately.
 
01:14:00 Erick chastain: joy should include suffering and  compunction, it is not a worldly joy
 
01:14:54 Erick chastain: suffering with christ
 
01:17:04 Cindy Moran: Thank you so much!
 
01:17:12 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:17:21 Sam Rodriguez: Thank you. Father!!
 
01:17:24 Rachel: If you say so lol
 
01:17:38 Rachel: Yes, it is drinking pure light
 
01:17:48 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏
 
01:17:56 kevin: thank you
 
01:18:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you =)
 
01:18:11 kevin: Love Newman!
 
01:18:12 Debra: I like that the questions/comments are typed out, so I can go back and read them, if I've had to step away from the computer
 
01:18:28 liz2: Thank you Father!!
 
01:19:12 Rachel: lol I love this group
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part III

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 19 on the importance and value of obedience. I think it is safe to say that this is some of the most beautiful writing on the subject - one can only imagine because it arises out of deep experience. 
Obedience is presented to us not as a kind of slavishness or something that leads to the crushing of the personality. Nor is it something that is infantilizing. What we find in the Fathers is just the opposite. Obedience is the prime good that we are to acquire because it casts out pride and it creates humility within the heart. Christ loved obedience because he loved the Father. It is in his incarnation that he was, by providence, obedient to his heavenly Father unto the cross and death. He obeyed the Father in love even though he was in no way inferior in greatness and dignity. 
Obedience and love are intimately tied together. Divine love is vulnerable. And nowhere is this seen more fully than in Christ giving himself over to the Father’s will without question. 
Such obedience also brings us healing and freedom from the danger of falling into delusion. Protected from pride, we never see ourselves and our lives as abstracted from God and his will for us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:33 David Fraley: I always have snacks!
 
00:10:42 Anthony: "City a Desert" on YouTube is how I found him.
 
00:13:54 Debra: I didn't get any email today, regarding the commenting
 
00:24:02 Mark: Sorry… incredibly distracted on my end… what page are we on?
 
00:24:14 Anthony: 146
 
00:24:34 Mark: Thanks
 
00:32:21 Anthony: So this is what fundamentally makes our anthropology different than the Cathars.  They make ascetism a mere act of will.  We realize we have disjointed psychology that must be put aright.  And that is by grace and synergy of the will with grace we reorganize the soul/mind/body.  And this synergy is individual and communal.
 
00:37:56 Mitchell Hunt: I saw that. Very profound. Quote was from Elder Aimilianos
 
00:42:02 Ren: Didn’t one of the Fathers we read even talk about revealing ones thoughts to ones angel? It might have been in the context of the hermits, and I think they were able to see their angel, but I think it is still a lovely thought that could apply.
 
00:54:42 Anthony: I think that is a sentiment shared by Seneca the Stoic.
 
01:06:21 Ren: This paragraph really serves as the proof of the hypothesis: Obedience is most valuable because it defeats pride, and gives birth to humility and love of God - all without the danger of delusion. Amazing. Also helps to explain why the chapter on obedience is the longest chapter in the Ladder. Strange that the only time we really talk about obedience in the life of the church is little kids doing what mom and dad say.
 
01:11:16 Anthony: My discipline is political philosophy. Since the Reformation, and especially the American Revolution, we have a worldview of opposition and "I have the truth, I will separate from you."  This is immature and selfish and even Marxist, looking at life through a framework of parties being in perpetual opposition.  But classical political philosophy has a worldview based on love, friendship, patronage, "the ties that bind."  That is the Classical worldview upon which our Catholic ethics are based.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part IV

Thank you everyone who participated in the study of The Ladder of Divine Ascent tonight. Your questions were both beautiful and challenging. 
Synopsis:
As we continued our reflection upon Step One “On Renunciation” St. John makes it very clear that we must enter into the spiritual battle with a zeal and desire for God; we must leap into the fire if we really expect the celestial fire to dwell within us. None of our ascetical practices, or the renunciation of the world that John speaks of in this step, can be abstracted from our relationship with God and what he desires to give us. The firm foundation upon which the spiritual life is laid is innocence, fasting, and temperance. Like a child, a babe, we are to have a simple trust in the care of our heavenly father, we must allow him to nourish us upon that which we need. Our love can know nothing of calculation or sly deceit. This is essential John tells us. We must begin the spiritual life with clarity about who we are before God and what it is that we seek. 
Likewise, we must enter into the spiritual life not lagging in the fight.  A firm beginning, John tells us, is useful when we later grow slack. We will all face trials and turmoil in the spiritual life and it is our first love, our first desire and zeal for the Lord, we must remember in order to set our hearts aflame once again.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:11:22 Cathy: Now thats Divine Providence!
 
00:11:36 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Yes.  I thought so.
 
00:16:19 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Where can you find the text Father is reading from?
 
00:16:53 Sean: Paragraph 9 at the bottom page 55
 
00:17:57 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thanks but is there a pdf file one can get this from? I do not have the book. Just started with you all.  Thanks.
 
00:18:40 Sean: I don’t think so
 
00:18:44 Ren: There is no PDF that we have access to. The book can be purchased at: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569
 
00:19:16 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: OK Thank you.
 
00:20:56 Anthony: I have a problem with laying off all things.  For example, although Christ went into the desert for 40 says and was often in prayer, He _did not_ utterly cast off His family.  His Mother was with Him.  He had friends.  He had family mentioned in the Gospels and Epistles.
 
00:28:55 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf  found a PDF
 
00:29:36 Cathy: Great!  Saint John Climacus is looking our for you!!
 
00:29:50 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 😇
 
00:30:30 Anthony: And this is where a spiritual father, an elder / staretz, and Catholic Culture come in.  They can regulate us to be neither puritanical nor lax
 
00:41:31 Ambrose: fortitude maybe
 
00:42:19 Rachel: that is a wonderful chapter!!
 
00:45:14 Anthony: YOU ARE RIGHT
 
00:59:56 Anthony: Synergy.  This is fundamentally opposed to the monergism which is the heart of the Calvinist American culture.
 
01:05:40 Michael Shuman: This is a really good question.
 
01:09:47 Joseph Caro: sheen talk: https://youtu.be/5e5oPIHnHQs
 
01:16:41 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Joseph!  I love Ven. Archbishop Fulton Sheen!🙏🏻
 
01:17:18 Anthony: The more one loves, the more one suffers when the love is offended.  That is how I see Our Lady suffering at the foot of the Cross most closely with the suffering and loving Christ
 
01:19:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: colossians 1:24-26
 
01:19:58 Ashley Kaschl: “God has created me to do Him some definite service. He has committed some work to me which He has not committed to another. I have my mission. I may never know it in this life, but I shall be told it in the next. I am a link in a chain, a bond of connection between persons.
 
He has not created me for naught. I shall do good; I shall do His work. I shall be an angel of peace, a preacher of truth in my own place, while not intending it if I do but keep His commandments.
 
Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.”
 
- St. John Henry Newman
 
01:20:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you!
 
01:20:56 Jos: thank you
 
01:21:24 Cathy: My favorite night! Happy Feast Day!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part II

Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained. 
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand. 
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that is rooted in the desire to please and serve the other. It is rooted in trust and shaped by self-sacrifice. May we never complicate it so as to make it unrecognizable. Within it is the power to redeem even what seems lost in our families, in our communities, and in life as a whole. It carries within it to seed of divine love that can reshape everything; even that which seems impossible to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:32 Lyle: Looking forward to another evening where someone may decisively, yet lovingly, dismantle erroneous ecclesiology for those of us catechumens.
 
00:19:55 Anthony: I'm guessing it was a fig branch or twig.  That's one way to propagate figs.  In year three, you get figs.
 
00:21:51 Ambrose: 1 John 2:3-5 ‘And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.’
 
00:22:18 Ambrose: John 14:15 ‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments.’
 
00:28:35 Anthony: This has implications for laity in problem parishes and dioceses and clergy under bishops with issues.
 
00:28:52 Anthony: Also had political implications against revolutions.
 
00:42:07 Ren: How does one reclaim the spirit of obedience once it has been lost? Once you have let resentment and even contempt of a particular authority figure to establish itself?
 
00:42:33 Jos: this was my question too but on the level of family/ generations
 
00:44:34 Ambrose: This one got me this morning. From lauds intercessions: Forgive us for failing to see Christ in the poor, the distressed and the troublesome, and for our failure to reverence your Son in their persons.   (particularly the "troublesome" part)
 
00:45:22 Carol Nypaver: Amen, Ambrose.
 
00:45:43 Anthony: We find our identity in the wrong.  Yeah, that's not healthy.
 
00:46:37 Ambrose: and not "sharing" it in social media
 
00:46:59 Jos: sorry I can't unmute
 
00:47:23 Carol Nypaver: Can you type it, Jos?
 
00:48:40 Jos: I wanted to ask about whether when one is born into a culture/ family structure and many generations that is filled with this pattern of resentment, lack of obedience etc, if it is then even possible to really change without enormous amounts of effort.
 
00:49:22 Lyle: Fr. David, I‘ve always appreciated the way you and some other spiritual directors continually point us to the Lord Jesus as our ultimate example whenever we need an example.
 
00:49:41 Jos: in our culture and my generation it is very common and it seems for many of us like outside of a very concerted effort it is nearly impossible to break out of the habitual that's been solidified in the unconscious
 
00:50:09 Anthony: Seeing each others flaws only - it can lead to long term and serious and acute resentments as with antipathy of different Slavic or Balkan peoples - or any of the old rivalries of Europe.
 
00:50:59 Ren: Agreed Lyle! “He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross.”
 
00:52:11 Ren: I have never been willing to be “obedient to death” 🤪
 
00:53:56 Carol Nypaver: There are many kinds of “deaths”—🤪
 
00:54:11 Ren: Yes. Ooof.
 
00:54:28 Carol Nypaver: 😩
 
00:54:36 Ambrose: All things are possible with God! Baby steps. Finding small things to train the will. Prayer. Nothing fast or quick fix.. Lean into grace.
 
00:55:55 Carol Nypaver: It’s a “choice” to obey/respect.
 
00:56:49 Lyle: Christ came into the world, not in His own name, but in the Name of the Father (John 15:20). He voluntarily accepted to fulfill in the most perfect way of the Father.  As an adopted child of God, must not I voluntarily do the same?  After all, God raised our Lord up and exalted Him above everything AND thereby provided eternal life to all mankind.
 
00:57:29 Ren: Amazing how obedience requires the other great virtues: Faith, Hope, Love, Extreme Humility. Maybe that is why the obedient brother is considered the greatest.
 
00:58:28 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
01:01:32 Anthony: That's part of the Benedictine charism
 
01:04:38 Forrest Cavalier: Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5 has this phrasing on bending the will: “and nothing is so bitter or so painful to me, as ever to be at variance with you”
 
01:06:29 Anthony: We formed in the American life have a long tradition of self-will going back to the Puritan, Scottich Covenanter and Huguenot traditions such as "Lex Rex" and "Give me Liberty or Give me Deah."
 
01:06:35 Anthony: "Death"
 
01:06:44 Ambrose: Though he was in the form of God,
Jesus did not deem equality with God
something to be grasped at.
 
Rather, he emptied himself
and took the form of a slave,
being born in the likeness of men.
 
He was known to be of human estate,
and it was thus that he humbled himself,
obediently accepting even death,
death on a cross!
(Philippians 2:6ff)
 
01:11:47 Lyle: During the Friday "Stations of the Cross", the Parish I am attending finishes EACH prayer with asking the Lord Jesus to "Do with me as YOU will."
 
01:13:15 Vicki Nichols: That sounds like St. Alphonsus Liguori's Stations of the Cross.
 
01:17:38 maureencunningham: Everyone a Movie called the Man of God about Saint Nektarios Of Aegina in Movie theater very beautiful film a friend said
 
01:22:15 Tyler Woloshyn: I have not found a viewing here in Canada for that movie yet
 
01:24:15 Anthony: Like the tendency to Jansenism or a Jansenist spirit among some American Catholic clergy and religious in past years and some trads now.
 
01:25:17 Lyle: The constant witness of the Eucharist is a very formative tool for anyone - adult or child.
 
01:25:50 Rachel: Thank you!!
 
01:25:51 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David
 
01:25:59 Anne Barbosa: Thank you Father!
 

Repentance: Life’s Continual Effort

Lecture given by Father David S. Abernethy, C.O. on Saturday, March 26. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part III

After laying some groundwork in the previous weeks we finally stepped in to the meat, as it were, of John‘s writing. 
We took up once again Step number One “on renunciation”. John moves very quickly to lay out before us the reasons why one would embrace the renunciation not only of the monks in the desert but of the ascetical life as a whole. The two fundamental reasons are the multitude of our sins and the love of God. The beginning of the spiritual life most often is the simple acknowledgment of our poverty and the infirmity that sin brings into our life. We see the emptiness of this life outside of our relationship with God. The acknowledgment of this truth bears the fruit of repentance; a fundamental turning toward God with streams of tears and heartfelt groanings that reflect an interior reality. It is then that God, as he did with Lazarus, orders that the stone be rolled away from the tomb and that we be unloosed from the passions that hold us in their grip. 
Yet, John would not have us see this as a path that we take in isolation. It is always to be trod with a guide or a director, a Moses figure. We need those who can help bring about the healing of the passions of the soul by their care as physicians. We need to be guided by those who have lived a life equal to the angels; that is, who have been freed from the corruption of their wounds and so have become experts and the most skilled physicians/surgeons. We do not live our Christian life out in isolation but only in communion with others and strengthened by those who have been transformed by the grace of God and the ascetical life. This life, John tells us in an unvarnished way, requires violence and constant suffering; a dying to self and sin in order that our hearts might attain to the love of God and the love of chastity and all of the other virtues. There will be great toil in this battle and the false-self, that kitchen dog addicted to barking, John tells us, is only overcome by the one who becomes a lover of chastity and watchfulness. 
The foundation of this journey is the courage to offer our souls to God in our infirmity, the faith to trust in Him, and the humility that we might bare all before his healing light of His Grace. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:31 Cindy Moran: What version of the book is being used?
 
00:15:58 Anthony: copyright 1979 Holy Transfiguration Monastery
 
00:18:01 Fr. Miron Jr.:
https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569
 
00:53:17 maureencunningham: What was the book Psychology Orthodoxy wombs the writer?
 
00:53:58 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=174I4J6U16QTR&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1648080810&sprefix=orthoodx+ps%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-2
 
00:56:02 maureencunningham: Thank you
 
01:16:51 Ashley Kaschl: “The life of man upon earth is a warfare, and his days are like the days of a hireling.” (Job 7:1, DRA)
 
01:24:50 Rachel: wow!
 
01:26:04 Rachel: How many times have the faithful heard in the midst of the battle, the same comparisons. A mistaken notion that the engaing in the battle means one has lost their " peace!?"
 
01:26:43 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father David.
 
01:26:45 Cindy Moran: Very good session thank you
 
01:26:53 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:26:54 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone.
 
01:27:09 Samantha Topolewski: Thank you!
 
01:27:20 Carole DiClaudio: Good night everyone!!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part V and Hypothesis XIX, Part I

Tonight we concluded Hypothesis 18 and began reading Hypothesis 19. Both emphasize the importance of not engaging in the spiritual life in isolation. One does not throw an inexperienced soldier, a novice in warfare, into the midst of a battle, having never used a weapon, and expect him to survive.  Similarly, we are taught that it would be foolhardy for us to think that we could engage in intense spiritual warfare, especially that of a hermit in deep solitude, without first having many years of being formed in a spirit of obedience and the common life. 
One must be teachable in the truest sense of the word; we must be docile to the guidance of others and those who are more experienced. Wisdom teaches us to seek the guidance of those who have experiential knowledge of what it is to struggle with the evil one, to avoid mortal traps. We must become unabashed students of the holy Fathers. We must let the dust of the road, as one from the group noted, and that of the sandals of the elders we follow kick up and cling to us. Simply by drawing close to the Fathers, by studying their writings, we find the surest teaching. In such an age is ours, where freedoms and personal rights are emphasized, it can be very difficult to wrap our minds around the value in the essential need of walking such a path. Yet, as we shall see, it is the only way because it is the path trod Christ himself.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:36:49 Forrest Cavalier: Was it Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5:22-24?
 
00:37:00 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: yes
 
00:37:01 Forrest Cavalier: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm
 
01:13:16 Forrest Cavalier: I think the word in greek βαφή connotes dyeing, not painting.
 
01:14:37 Anthony: Thank you, Forrest
 
01:16:55 Anthony: Forrest, that would make sense for it to connote dyeing, a dipping process; the word looks like it may share the same root as baptizo.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part II

Tonight we resumed our reading of Step One on the Renunciation of the world. The step fits into the larger context of a break with the world which includes, John tells us, detachment and exile. Here is where monks sought to remove everything from their lives that would keep them from focusing solely upon God and what He alone offers. As Christians we may not imitate the monk in living in the desert; yet, in reality, the desert exists within the human heart. The renunciation that John speaks of in this first step must exist within us as well. There are many ways that we have to let go of the things that hold us within their grip; the passions (sins that have become habitual), disordered desires that make us long for satisfaction and seek it within worldly goods and the fulfillment of the appetites. 
In paragraph 4, John begins to define for us the various types of Christians. He does this not as an abstraction but rather as a frame through which we can view our lives. He paints with broad strokes and asks us to gaze deeply into the image to see if we recognize a reflection of ourselves. Are we an irreligious man (not thinking of God at all), a transgressor who distorts the faith in a depraved fashion? Are we a Christian who seeks to imitate Christ in word, thought, and deed - who believes in what God has revealed of himself to us; namely, believing in the Holy Trinity? Are we the lover of God who seeks to live in communion with all that is natural and sinless? Are we the continent man, who in the face of temptations and turmoil, struggles in order that he might be free? Have we interiorized monasticism in the sense that we seek a chaste love, purity of heart and mind? Do we remember death so as to cling to He alone who is our life? Have we set aside the things of this world voluntarily; not because they are evil but because we are a naturally attached to them more than we are attached to the love of God?
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:34:39 Anthony: We are tied to an evolutionary metaphysic - to our detriment.
 
00:35:13 Anthony: "We" being society, even Christian society adopt evolutionary "becoming'
 
00:36:54 Eric Williams: I think Thomas à Kempis made a good effort to remind Western scholastics of the bigger picture.
 
00:38:18 Ambrose Little: Some people are more intellectually inclined, and God can use that to draw people to himself.
 
00:39:20 Joseph Caro: good point Ambrose! I agree, from my own observations
 
00:39:21 Edward Kleinguetl: To be fair, Aidan Nichols--who I referenced-- is a Dominican.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little: Fr. Garrigou-La Grange, O.P. is great. Highly recommend: Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross https://amzn.to/3JlEwrP
 
00:39:57 sue and mark: God will and can use who ever a
 
00:40:05 Fr. Miron Jr.: Let's return to Climacus
 
00:40:12 sue and mark: whoever and where eer you are to bring you to himself
 
00:40:57 Carmen Briceno: aren’t we doing the same thing now? over intellectualizing what has happened rather than going back to the sources?
 
00:58:23 Joseph Caro: “It is a mistake,” says St. John Chrysostom, “to imagine that one can in one’s own strength vanquish concupiscence and preserve purity; by God’s mercy alone can the passions of nature be controlled.”
 
01:02:58 Bonnie Lewis: This humility will reveal great truths about ourselves.
 
01:03:08 Mitchell Hunt: Where was that quote from above nothingness and humility? Amazing
 
01:03:14 Mitchell Hunt: About
 
01:07:34 Ren: @MitchellHunt - Mother Mectilde de Bar’s “Breviary of Fire.” The chapter on Pride and Humility
 
01:10:45 Erick: this is pure gold. each sentence of this is an outline of the spiritual life
 
01:11:19 Anthony: It takes experience in the world to see the trials and sorrow which result from the Curse, and we really then long to be free and to live in accordance with our nature (created and "deified").
 
01:13:49 Cathy: We can not have 2 gods... We will despise one
 
01:18:37 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Ren
 
01:18:40 Eric Williams: Material comforts are like agglomerations attached to us. As they increase in number, they add to our “mass”, and as mass increases so does gravitational attraction. The more things we amass, the more we draw toward ourselves. With a little more thought one might find an interesting metaphor to be made from the accumulation of accretions becoming so great that a black hole is formed.
 
01:20:17 Anthony: God is the "Philanthropic One." Beautiful title.
 
01:22:45 Sean McCune: Eric: We become a nothingness that pulls everything in our grasp to ourselves where they are also become nothingness.
 
01:25:09 Sean McCune: (It took your comment about material things to get this secular Franciscan to say something) 😏
 
01:26:40 victoriaschweitzer: Righto. We must receive. We cannot approach with the mindset that we have to accumulate spiritual goodies. Ask and you shall receive.
 
01:28:21 Eric Williams: Indeed, Sean. The funny thing about massive bodies is that they interact with others. Either we enter into harmonious orbits or equilibria with other persons, or we are rogue bodies that collide with others or gravitational abysses that absorb and destroy all that falls within our sphere of influence. (Have I beaten this metaphor to death yet? 😉)
 
01:29:14 Mitchell Hunt: I think some people have have missed tonight due to your time zone change recently.  Got me on Monday night
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter One: On Renunciation, Part I

Thank you to all who attended the group on the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It was wonderful to see so many with the desire to sit at the feet of the great Saint and teacher John Climacus.  
Synopsis:
Tonight was our inaugural group reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus. We allowed ourselves to jump immediately into the text with step number one “On Renunciation.” We will unpack things as we move forward; including the anthropology and the psychology of the fathers, the language used by Climacus and historical details from his life. 
In the first three paragraphs Climacus begins his writing with God, who he describes as the source of life and salvation for all, believers and unbelievers, just and unjust, pious and impious, educated and illiterate, healthy and sick, young and old. He then goes on to define the Christian and the monk and how their identity determines the way they live their lives. Freedom is set out as imperative. God has created all free beings and offers salvation to all. This is the essential frame in which we are to read the rest of the book and understand the ascetical life. We freely seek to give ourselves and our love to God and to embrace the love and grace that He has given to us. Our asceticism is not simply an act of endurance but rather an act of freedom and love. Outside of this the ascetical life loses any sense of purpose and meaning. Likewise we look to the elders, to the fathers in their virtue and purity of heart for their guidance in word and deed. They in turn engage us not as impartial observers or analysts but rather as those who are fellow strugglers in the pursuit of God and of the kingdom. It is the love and desire for the salvation of those in their charge that guides and directs their care of others.
---
19:27:40 From FrDavid Abernethy, CO : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf
 
19:29:16 From siobhan from pittsburgh : Hi Im Sandra
 
19:29:32 From Michele : Dave and Michele Berthelsen are here.
 
19:29:52 From siobhan from pittsburgh : not Siobhan
 
19:29:56 From Rachel : 🙏🏼
 
19:30:25 From kevinferrick : Hello everyone,   newbie here from Boston.   Hope I navigate the zoom alright
 
19:30:45 From Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt : Hi, God bless, Sr. Mary of our Divine Savior
 
19:31:09 From Amil : Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, we are all pretty tiny.
 
19:31:23 From siobhan from pittsburgh : I love it!!
 
19:32:24 From Ambrose Little : https://pghco.org/climacus
 
19:33:24 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Kevin!
 
19:33:46 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Sr. Mary!
 
19:40:39 From Joseph Caro : If there is a handout, can the link be posted here? thanks!
 
19:40:58 From Sean McCune : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf
 
19:41:55 From Miika : Good Morning everyone! First time live! Miika from Finland
 
19:42:30 From Carol Nypaver : Very cool!  Welcome, Miika!
 
19:42:37 From Carole DiClaudio : Hello Miika!!!
 
19:42:53 From Rachel : 2-3 years! I  hope I have that many ( blessed) years.
 
19:43:35 From Carole DiClaudio : :)
 
19:47:38 From Erick Chastain : Sorry, I ended up breaking into this zoom room by pure luck I guessed the link. I didn't sign up
 
19:48:01 From Ashley Kaschl : 😂
 
19:48:31 From Debra : I always fumble around to find the link
 
19:48:31 From Erick Chastain : If Fr wants me to leave since I didn't sign up, he or Ren can notify me
 
19:48:47 From Debra : BTW...thank you Ambrose for the link!
 
19:49:03 From Ambrose Little : Write it on your heart and on your mind.
 
19:49:15 From Debra : It's a weird URL
 
19:52:27 From Ren : No worries Erick :-) All are welcome. Even the hackers ;-)
 
19:52:55 From Carol Nypaver : 🤣
 
19:52:55 From Fr. Miron Jr. : 🤣
 
19:54:02 From Anthony : Wow, this is different than - as in other teachings - "elect" and "reprobate"
 
19:55:42 From Ren : WOW. Beautiful.
 
19:56:20 From Jim Milholland : How poetic
 
20:02:48 From Anthony : "These Noetic creatures" as Father said.  That reminds me of this phrase used by St. Gregory of Narek: "Rational Flock."
 
20:02:59 From Fr. Miron Jr. : https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3954VB8PGOFPM&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1646874171&sprefix=ortodog+psychoterapy%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-2
 
20:05:07 From Rachel : Yes!!
 
20:06:45 From Fr. Miron Jr. : same seminary experince duing my years...
 
20:10:26 From Lilly : I didn’t know him until last year
 
20:10:58 From Gilmar Siqueira : Translated into Spanish by Friar Luis de Granada :)
 
20:12:34 From victoriaschweitzer : Good point, amil !
 
20:13:40 From Carole DiClaudio : I thought the same thing, Amil!
 
20:19:36 From Amil : 🕊️
 
20:22:37 From Rachel : Bingo
 
20:27:51 From St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education : We simply have to keep ourselves focused on God. No matter what our 'poverty' limitations....not looking at each other's abilities or place in the world...just keep focused on God and ask for God's help.
 
20:34:03 From maureencunningham : Thank you
 
20:34:07 From Miika : Sadly theological education in the Nordic countries is also very one-sidedly rationality centered. (At least amongst us "protestants" -not that I protest anything personally...as far as I know)
 
20:34:22 From Rachel : lol Carol
 
20:35:12 From iPhone : thank you
 
20:35:18 From Rachel : Thank you Father and everyone. God bless!
 
20:35:23 From Bob and Tara Bartz : Thank you!
 
20:35:24 From Ben David : good night good fight
 
20:35:30 From Mitchell Hunt : Thank you Father
 
20:35:31 From Michele : Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part IV

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 which examines the importance of seeking the guidance of elders; those who have a deep desire for God and have come to know His ways through experience. We can have no conceit of knowledge when it comes to the spiritual life. Natural gifts, talents, and abilities are good in and of themselves but they do not necessarily give us insight into the ways of God or knowledge of divine things. At times we seem to almost have an infinite capacity for self-delusion. The more one progresses along the spiritual path the greater in fact the danger becomes. If we do not guard our hearts, if we do not seek out the counsel of others, we can quickly fall into the pit of self-judgment. The fall then can be great and the damage done terrible. Therefore the Fathers with one voice call us to constantly seek out the wisdom of others, to listen to God at the depths ofour being with a spirit of humility. No matter how wise we become what we understand is infinitesimal in comparison to the wisdom of God and the Spirit that searches the depths of our hearts. In this we can allow ourselves no illusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: beginning page 139
 
00:25:23 Rachel: lol ?? unfortunately yes
 
00:25:28 Anthony: Or when you leave Mass / Divine Liturgy after profuse incense.
 
00:26:06 Rachel: Okay...I love the incense. Dont mind that one bit.
 
00:42:54 Forrest Cavalier: Instead of criticizing priests and deacons we need to dialog with them. It's a two-way commitment, though.
 
00:57:37 Daniel Allen: The Centurian was a pagan and Jesus said He had found no greater faith than the faith of this centurion in all of Israel. And I believe Scripture even says Jesus “marveled”.
 
00:58:09 Forrest Cavalier: The Greek original in this Evergetinos says "holy men". Discernment is important when we seek advice.
 
01:07:57 Bridget McGinley: The centurian is the man I study the most.... I want that Faith! Can you imagine "marveling" Christ? Thanks Daniel!
 
01:10:43 Forrest Cavalier: 1 Cor 13:2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Eight, Part II and Letter Seventy-Nine

It is a bitter sweet thing to come to the end of such a long journey - a long and sometimes arduous journey but one that has brought such joy and hope. Tonight we finished the final two letters of Saint Theophan to Anastasia. 
They are perhaps the two finest letters of the collection. Saint Theophan speaks with a great directness and honesty about the anxieties that Anastasia experiences and how she has to deal with him. He sees how clearly they can be temptations from the Evil One to pull her away from God, from trusting Him, and from the practice of prayer. It was with great gentleness and tenderness that he guided her through this in order that Anastasia might understand that if she but makes an irrevocable gift of herself to God she will be ever under His protection. She need have fear of nothing and no one. 
In the final letter (80) he speaks to her about the extraordinary grace she has received through having endured the storm. Satan sought to sift her like wheat. Yet God used all of this to perfect her faith and to teach her. The Enemy through his tricks sought to create hurry and to alarm her and confuse matters. Yet Anastasia has learned that Godly things are peaceful and quiet. She must only wait. Everything comes in its own time. 
In the years to come, Theophan tells her, she must gravitate towards solitude; not necessarily the solitude of the desert but of her heart. There she must wait for God and allow herself to be nourished upon His love. Indeed, there is nothing more beautiful.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:15:51 Andreea Gallagher: Where are we?
 
00:16:21 Carol Nypaver: 302
 
00:17:02 Andreea and Anthony: Thanks!
 
00:17:15 Carol Nypaver: 😇
 
00:40:31 Barb Heyrman: Considering how related religious experience is to psychological experience it is interesting that at one time they were separated by design
 
00:53:16 Barb Heyrman: Also points to the problem of comparing ourselves & our circumstances with the situations of another — maybe the ‘recipie’ God is using w/ us & the oven temp & baking time is different
 
01:00:26 Barb Heyrman: I hear this all the time…the identity as the syndrome … anxiety/ADHD / ‘this is just who I am’
 
01:12:31 Ren: To join the email group for the Ladder, go to www.pghco.org/climacus-email
 
01:14:59 Wayne: if we are on the email list do we need to register again?
 
01:16:23 Wayne: gotta go goodnight
 
01:16:37 Ren: This particular email list is for you to receive the weekly email with the Zoom link, or information specifically about the group (cancellations, etc…). If you are subscribed to Philokalia Ministries then, yes, you will want to subscribe to this list as well.
 
01:17:45 Art: Gotta go too.  Good night,
 
01:19:15 Ren: Bumpkins
 
01:19:19 Ren: :-D
 
01:24:39 Rafael Patrignani: thank you! i have yo leave
 
01:26:18 Anne Barbosa: Thank you!
 
01:27:04 Eric Williams: There are 30 steps on the ladder, right? We might finish the book in about as many months. ;)
 
01:27:17 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you been a great study of Theophan
 
01:27:57 Carol Nypaver: Thank you!
 
01:28:35 Mitchell Hunt: Great sounds good
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part III

Tonight we continued our reading of hypothesis 18 which focuses upon the importance of seeking the counsel of those who have an experiential knowledge of the spiritual life. We do not live out our Christian life as individuals. Even the monk living in the greatest solitude understands the radical solidarity that he has with others in the life of the Church. 
The stories that we are presented with here this evening show us that the desire of monks to seek out the counsel of elders; and not only the desire but the necessity of doing so. To try to walk along the spiritual path, to try and engage in the spiritual battle alone is foolhardy. Inevitably, we will fall to one of the passions or we will find ourselves in the grip of the Evil One. 
Humility is key. Our lives have to be radically focused upon the truth and most of all the poverty and the weakness that sin has brought into our lives. We must acknowledge that it is by God alone that we are saved ; and that it is by his grace that we are able to engage in the ascetical life. We must avoid self-styled asceticism that lacks discretion. No matter how wise we might be we must believe that we are in need of learning and counsel.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:55:48 Forrest Cavalier: My summary of this discussion to Anthony's questions: We know by fruits: Wicked self-doubt leads towards despair, quietism (on one side) or self-reliant Pelagianism (on the other.) Proper self-doubt: recognize our poverty, leading to grace, trust, unity to body of Christ.
 
01:00:04 John Clark: Pre V2 you were required to fast after Midnight the night before attending mass and not eat anything if receiving the Holy Host…
 
01:00:47 Carol Nypaver: Yep….not even water.
 
01:08:43 Eric Williams: If disciplines become perfunctory, the Church should inform consciences and instruct the ignorant, not discard the disciplines. 🙁
 
01:09:36 Erick: agreed Eric
 
01:13:15 Erick: some people are trying to revive the ancient lenten fasting practice.... See here for details: https://www.beautysoancient.com/lentpledge/
 
01:14:18 Eric Williams: I hope they revive St Martin’s (Nativity) Fast, too ;)
 
01:14:30 Rachel: Thank you! God bless everyone!
 
01:15:41 David Fraley: Thank you and good night, Father.
 
01:16:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren.
 
01:16:30 Eric Williams: Thanks for the reminder about that, Ren! 🙂
 

Enter By The Narrow Gate: The Ascetic Podvig of Living in the World

Tonight we had the opportunity to discuss asceticism as a preparation for the holy season of Lent. We find in the spiritual  tradition a clear call to enter into a struggle to live the life of faith to its fullest. We are to strive to enter by the narrow gate. 
When we look to the Scriptures and the writings of the Saints we see very clearly that they took no passive approach to the embrace of the faith. They knew that it must be lived and that their life must undergo a revolution. To live in accord with the beatitudes or the sermon on the mount means that one will not fit into the norms of this world. Just the opposite. In so far as we experience ease within this world, or experience success and the favors of this world we may be living a life at enmity with God. 
Our life should be about seeking to love God above all things and seeking to please him. Our exercise of the faith, our asceticism, means nothing if it is merely an exercise of endurance. It must be rooted in our desire for God and the things of God. It must be rooted in love. 
Seen in this light, Lent should not be simply a 40 day period that comes and goes; but rather a springboard into a more committed life in Christ.  Lent is about repentance; turning toward God and away from self and sin. May we take this truth to heart and so know the healing of God‘s grace in all of its fullness.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:14 Jean-Paul: in a vow of digital simplicity no camera and no mic
 
00:20:12 Jean-Paul: Could you please re-state the name of that journal
 
00:47:16 Andrew musano: “Do that which is good, and no evil shall touch you. Prayer is good with fasting and alms and righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than much with unrighteousness. It is better to give alms than to lay up gold: For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin. Those that exercise alms and righteousness shall be filled with life: But they that sin are enemies to their own life.”
 
+ St. Raphael the Archangel, Tobit 12:7-10
 
00:50:41 Anthony: Contendire in Latin.  Contend. Not just "you signed an intellectual contract to get to Heaven."
 
00:51:30 Jean-Paul: The Great Fast begins with the Exultation of the Cross Sept.14
 
00:53:00 Louise A: My dear Father always practiced Ember day fasting....if I remember they were originally associated with the great feasts Christmas,Easter, Pentecost.
 
00:56:30 Andrew musano: Listed below is dates for Fasting in the East. I hope this helps.
 
https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.112.219/1a3.c9d.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-fasts-of-the-orthodox-church.pdf
 
01:04:13 Jean-Paul: Carthusian guidance on fasting  http://www.quies.org/quies_fasting.php
 
01:05:30 Jean-Paul: Carthusian fasting for the Fathers is usually on Fridays and consists of eating solely bread and water
 
01:10:47 Andrew musano: Let all involuntary suffering teach you to remember God, and you will not lack occasion for repentance.
 
+ St. Mark the Ascetic, “On the Spiritual Law: Two Hundred Texts” No. 57, The Philokalia: The Complete Text (Vol. 1)
 
01:18:56 Andrew musano: Ash Wednesday Is a beautiful tradition.
01:28:21 Andrew musano: A foretaste of Heaven on Earth
 
01:36:09 Ren: The adults are the real annoyance. Lets get rid of all of them :-D ;-)
 
01:48:59 Jean-Paul: Can anyone tell how long tonights gather will be
 
01:50:56 Jean-Paul: We are on page 4 will we complete the PDF tonight?
 
01:52:26 Andrew musano: “It is necessary for a Christian to fast, in order to clear his mind, to rouse and develop his feelings, and to stimulate his will to useful activity. These three human capabilities we darken and stifle above all by ‘surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life’ (Lk. 21:34).”
 
— St. John of Kronstadt, My Life in Christ
 
02:10:22 Jean-Paul: More than 40% of the women over 75 live alone -- perhaps there are more hermits and monks than one knows.
 
02:11:11 Bonnie: This has given me an entirely new way to prepare for Lent.  Much deeper, more meaningful, and hopefully long lasting.  Thank you Father!
 
02:11:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: thank you
 
02:11:24 ellice: Thank you! This was beautiful
 
02:11:28 Jean-Paul: Peace and all good
 
02:11:29 Andrew musano: Thank you Fr.
 
02:11:40 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
02:11:50 Larisa Cowell: Thank you Father I loved it.
 
02:12:04 Louise A: many thanks Father
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Seven, Part II

Tonight we concluded letter 77 and went on to read letter 78. As we have seen in past weeks, Theophan is much more direct with Anastasia now that she has made her decision to enter into the religious life. In multiple ways, she has been tempted either by those who have no faith, by her fear of injustice and false accusation, or her desire to express and pursue her own freedom. Theophan warns her against all these things and the kind of false freedom especially that we cling to that offers no hope. In fact, Theophan refers to it as an “evil impulse that is evil”. We are called to walk the path of the cross; to die to self and to self-will and to live for Christ. We have not been promised the love of the world. Rather, we have been promised just the opposite - its hatred. Why would she want to flee her parents house when in reality it is a protective environment for her? It is there that she can learn the life of a obedience at the hand of those who love her the most. What greater opportunity is there to be formed for the religious life than this? Don’t chase false freedoms, he warns her. The impulse to freedom is like chasing rainbows or desiring to catch shadows. When we look at the world we see unhappy people desperately seeking to assert themselves -  often at the cost of others. She must learn to look at her life in the light of Christ and her freedom in light of the communion of love in which she exists with God. Anything else is an illusion.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:03 Art: Posting a follow up to Eric C’s question from last week.  While he was asking I was reminded of one possible answer to the dilemma whether to obey the Church 10 years ago or the Church one month ago.  Rather than butcher the response, I’ve included the actual source.  It begins around 15:28 and ends around 20:50
 
Two points I found helpful were the comments that in a crisis there is an objectively right thing to do. “You hold on to what was always believed everywhere by everybody.”  “What has the Church always believed?  That is what I must continue to believe.”  And 
 
“The faith does not change.  What was once true is still true. Either it was false then, in which case it is false now.  Or else it was true then and it’s true now.”  The speaker is Fr. David Sherry SSPX. 
 
Hopefully you find it helpful.
 
http://sspxpodcast.com/2021/12/crisis-series-49-father-what-can-i-do-about-the-crisis-in-the-church/
 
00:32:13 Anthony: I've wondered if this applies to legal processes such as the cases for freedom to act according to a well formed conscience.  OK, suppose you lose the case....would that change your acting according to a well formed conscience?  We are called to accept persecutions.
 
00:35:35 Anthony: Would the truth of the cross apply to suffering under the English "Reformation," the French Revolution and the Vendee, the American Revolution....and current events like in Eastern Europe?
 
00:40:30 John Clark: I once had to confront an office bully…It was a good outcome
 
00:43:00 Lyle: Today, some of us were meditating on the Office of Readings regarding St. Polycarp's
martyrdom.  His last words brought tears to my eyes.  “I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you through the eternal priest of heaven, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son. Through him be glory to you, together with him and the Holy Spirit, now and for ever. Amen”.
 
00:43:21 Lyle: Surrounded by the fire, his body was like bread that is baked, or gold and silver white-hot in a furnace, not like flesh that has been burnt. So sweet a fragrance came to us that it was like that of burning incense or some other costly and sweet-smelling gum.
 
00:44:18 Carol Nypaver: Amen!  St. Polycarp, pray for us!
 
00:46:48 Erick Chastain: you get an academic department at a major public university
 
00:47:22 Erick Chastain: 😅
 
00:59:53 Eric Williams: I was bullied every year of my public education. Hardly a desirable kind of socialization.
 
01:05:21 Ren: Booooooo ;-)
 
01:05:29 Cathy: I am offended
 
01:05:49 Carol Nypaver: 🤣
 
01:06:22 Ren: Suffragette #1 over here :-D
 
01:06:36 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
 
01:09:59 Lyle: Too many times MY exercise of freedom led me FROM the LIGHT (My Lord) to DARKNESS (Rebellion and sin.)
 
01:13:06 Eric Williams: seen on a bumper sticker: “Teenagers, quick, leave home while you still know everything!”
 
01:18:49 Edward Kleinguetl: His book, Tattoos on the Heart, is amazing!
 
01:19:26 Marylouise Lambert: Homeboy Industries
 
01:20:49 Anthony: We (the Church) were helped along in our deplenishment by Josephism, Jansenism, Americanism.
 
01:21:53 Anthony: Febronianism....all worked to diminish our unified spiritual/social role
 
01:22:46 Erick Chastain: actually... I think it was 1 year ago
 
01:22:54 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:23:03 Cathy: Good for you Eric!!
 
01:23:13 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Father David
 
01:23:16 Erick Chastain: It was this podcast that told me about grace
 
01:23:22 Anne Barbosa: Thank you!
 
01:23:26 Cathy: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:43 Cathy: Bring snacks!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part II

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and questioning so as to learn about the spiritual life. What we find in the writings and the lives of the desert fathers is a stress on the importance of seeking counsel. One never walks spiritual life in isolation. We should foster a zeal within us to talk about the spiritual life with those who have experiential knowledge that is rooted in many years of striving to live the gospel in its fullness. We are given one example after another of individuals seeking out the counsel of elders, being swept up in the desire for their wisdom, and being willing to travel great distances to learn from them. May God instill within our hearts that same yearning and urgent longing for God and for the truth.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:57 Mark: Which version of “The Ladder” are you going to use?
 
00:07:39 Rachel: good to know
 
00:08:18 Eric Williams: I shared some quotes from the Evergetinos with my Saturday morning men's group
 
00:08:37 Anthony: Nice
 
00:12:27 carolnypaver: Page?
 
00:13:12 Fr. Miron Jr.: 135
 
00:16:07 Anthony: They had a visit, it was time to go, and the went outside to leave but kept talking for hours?  Maybe they were Italian. ;)
 
00:17:40 sue and mark: they must have been!
 
00:23:45 Anthony: Does this maybe come as a result of the "frentic energy" which Father David warns against? A kind of energy that just wants to be dissipated but not focused?
 
00:34:22 John Clark: Personally praying the rosary silently keeps me in constant contact with the Lord and Holy Spirit
 
00:46:28 Rachel: It is mostly our own vice
 
00:50:17 Anthony: Heresy of Americanism, too
 
00:51:44 Eric Williams: Catholics have forgotten how to be in the world but not of it.
 
00:53:30 Erick Chastain: Bp athanasius schneider
 
01:00:02 Eric Williams: Is this a stone age tool? ;)
 
01:01:03 Rachel: " Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord.."..
 
01:04:10 Eric Williams: Unfortunately, big books/sets are hard sells these days, even to those who seem engaged in their faith. Attention spans are short, people are busy, and we're conditioned to pay attention to sound bites and memes.
 
01:07:42 Eric Williams: I still have your notes from the Climacus group you led years ago (20?). :)
 
01:10:07 Rachel: WOW!!
 
01:13:01 Erick Chastain: can confirm about cmu
 
01:13:38 Rachel: I feel like that everytime I talk lol
 
01:13:57 Wayne: gotta go
 
01:14:41 Eric Williams: I've always appreciated how succinct and to the point your homilies are. The anxiety was worthwhile!
 
01:16:19 Ambrose Little: Unless you just don’t like apples. 😄
 
01:17:15 Fr. Miron Jr.: and also in slovakia
 
01:17:31 Rachel: haha
 
01:17:53 Lyle: May hungering and thirsting for God drive us to a passionate, relentless pursuit of Him.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thank you Father
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Six, Part II and Letter Seventy-Seven, Part I

Tonight we began with Letter 76 where Theophan again takes up the temptations that are coming to Anastasia from unbelievers. They have begun to call into question the reality of God and the dignity of the human person; making absurd arguments and trying to twist her up within them. With clarity, he tells Anastasia simply to stay focused upon the dignity of the human person. No matter how diminished we are physically, emotionally, or spiritually, we always bear within us the grace of God who created us in His image and likeness. Even if that reality seems to be lost altogether and personhood is called into question, each individual has an inherent value and dignity in Christ. Within the Divine Economy God is always working through the circumstances of our lives in order to bring about our salvation. Life in this world may seem unreasonable or harsh but none of it prevents God from manifesting himself in our lives and bringing us to a share in His Eternal Life. 
In Letter 77, Theophan focuses upon another temptation rooted in domestic unpleasantness. Anastasia is frustrated by having to live in obedience to her parents and postponing her entrance into the monastery. This is the Evil One’s doing,Theophan tells her, and he has muddled her brain, confusing her mind with uncertainty. It is all deception, Theophan warns her and she must cross herself and drive out the temptation. It is tantamount to making mountains out of mole hills. We tend to do that with so many things in our life. Rather than fighting the good fight of faith against the evil one we will direct our frustration outward on to other people and circumstances. We must embrace those circumstances in a spirit of humility and obedience, always seeking to conform ourselves to Christ and to see our lives in light of the mystery of the Cross.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:47 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: No Whining. St. Theophan
 
00:16:14 Eric Williams: If I'm not mistaken, "idiot" formerly had a clinical definition before entering the vernacular.
 
00:17:48 Anthony: Like Dostoevsky's book "The Idiot," which referred to an epileptic.
 
00:19:43 Anthony: Herman the Lame was a hymnist and scholar and had terrible afflictions.
 
00:20:45 Eric Williams: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/idiot
 
00:27:44 Anthony: Sometimes stark contrast helps us understand the point better; sometimes it gets in the way.
 
00:28:58 Rachel: When I was a child, there was a girl my same age who our family knew that was mentally retarded. My Dad told us children, that people that are born this way go straight to Heaven. That they cannot speak or they would tell all of the secrets of Heaven. Every once in a while we were all supposed to volunteer to take Stephanie out and keep her company and give her care givers a break. One Sunday, I jumped on the opportunity to be with her. I already did like to be with her but now that I thought she knew the secrets of Heaven I could not wait for my turn. She never said anything but she just grabbed my face and smile when I asked her. As I child I felt happy but jealous of her being able to go straight to Heaven.
 
00:37:22 Edward Kleinguetl: 21
 
00:38:01 Anthony: He was not even Coptic, but, i think, Ghanian
 
00:38:43 Rachel: Oh my goodness. They are martyrs!
 
00:38:46 Luiz Eduardo Lawall: This is very frustrating
 
00:45:56 carolediclaudio: Hahahaha love it
 
00:51:35 Erick Chastain: sorry my dog unmuted the mic
 
00:52:01 Eric Williams: Did he eat your homework, too? ;)
 
00:52:04 carolediclaudio: :)
 
00:57:16 Rafael Patrignani: very interesting! thank you. I have to leave,
 
00:57:31 Anthony: Evil one said "I will not sevre"
 
00:57:50 carolediclaudio: Bye Rafael!
 
00:59:18 Rachel: Wow
 
00:59:41 Anthony: Dom Scupoli was another who obeyed and apparently was vindicated later.
 
01:00:11 Rachel: Please give me the name of the other holy brother?
 
01:00:52 Anthony: Savonarola in Florence; Dom Scupoli was the other
 
01:00:56 Ben Miralles Jr.: Girolamo Savonarola
 
01:01:22 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:04:39 Rachel: lol
 
01:13:18 Anthony: We have been formed mentally to be like a scholastic....but without the mysticism the scholastics (like St. Thomas!) should have had. (and St. Thomas did have)
 
01:16:41 Jk: so true anthony
 
01:22:37 Eric Williams: "Everyone argues too much!" "No we don't!" ;)
 
01:22:59 carolediclaudio: :):)
 
01:30:31 Erick Chastain: Paisios also says that this age has a rampant spirit of impudence
 
01:30:51 Erick Chastain: Too many rebels everywhere.
 
01:32:04 Kmec: Thank you
 
01:32:17 Eric Williams: Rebels without a clue!
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Five, Part II and Letter Seventy-Six, Part I

Tonight we concluded letter 75. This letter and those that follow all focus on particular temptations that Anastasia is facing as she approaches her decision to enter into the religious life. Theophan in Letter 75 focuses on the tricks of the enemy to dissuade her or throw her into despair because of the weaknesses, sins, and poverty that she sees within herself. His counsel to her is to allow these things to humble her but not to throw her into despair. Her endurance of the struggle is for the sake of crowns, he tells her; that is, the growth and perfection of the virtues. 
In letter 76, Theophan begins to focus on the temptations that come from unbelievers. These are much more subtle, he warns her, and those who engage her will seek to cram a lot of worthless garbage into her head. They might be wise and clever in the ways of the world but underneath their words can be a malicious spirit that poses a threat to her faith. She must be willing to let what they say go in one ear and out the other and not purposely expose herself to the narrow mindedness and hard heartedness of those opposed to the faith. She must examine her own bewilderment and leave no trace of it within her mind and heart. Faith is a gift of God instilled within us by our very creation. It is older and greater than education and society. These things pass on knowledge to a new generation.  However, we must understand that religious belief is part of every race because it is also the part of every man. In fact, “man is not man”, Theophan says, without it. To cast away our faith, to undermine it through neglect, is to distort and mutilate ourselves. He who does not have faith departs from the fundamental reality of who we are as human beings and in the process can make himself freakish on both a moral and psychological level. The perception and experience of reality is undermined by cutting oneself off from He who is Reality itself. Our response to this must be to embrace our faith fully and to allow it to transform us without any opposition; to allow the grace of God to inflame and purify our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:42 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: bottom of page 289
 
00:14:16 Rachel: 😐
 
00:18:36 Anthony: comfort -> cum forte -> with strength
 
00:22:31 Anthony: I learned that at least in the time of the last Tzar and Rasputin, the Russian nobility were drawn to theosophy and other dangerous curiosities.
 
00:29:34 Eric Williams: And by being sucked into these unproductive battles, we risk behaving as the pharisee, rather than the publican.
 
00:29:57 Rachel: This is so good
 
00:30:23 Anthony: See HIllaire Belloc, "The Free Press"
 
00:33:05 Rafael Patrignani: Kierkegaard' s book: 'mortal sickness' talks about that process that leads to desperation
 
00:33:45 Anthony: Some "Science" is just philosophy or the occult in disguise.
 
00:34:51 Rachel: You're not alone for sure.
 
00:35:28 Philip’s iPhone: I’m working in a catholic high school and I can even relate !
 
00:35:30 Anne Barbosa: I also avoid having lunch with my coworkers
 
00:35:35 Eric Williams: Alas, too often science is distorted and contorted into scientism.
 
00:36:15 Erick Chastain: Eric W, my catholic scientist friends call it "teh science"
 
00:40:01 Eric Williams: “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error" - Fulton Sheen
 
00:42:32 Rachel: Wow.
 
00:43:59 Rachel: This is so timely and helpful. When we see ans sense a lack of the spirit of generosity in the other to engage in Truth, to seek Truth, we have more of an obligation to disengage. Quickly.
 
00:48:17 Rafael Patrignani: objectivity is an act of love and death to ourselves
 
00:50:11 Philip’s iPhone: Please remind me which number letter we are discussing?
 
00:50:27 Philip’s iPhone: Thank you !!
 
00:50:51 sue and mark: 76
 
00:58:57 Rafael Patrignani: nowadays I think culture is in a state worse than secularised.. it's increasingly against Christianity..
 
00:59:31 Anthony: Pierce v Society of Sisters
 
01:00:08 Anthony: the state tried to destroy Catholic schools precisely due to formation
 
01:02:24 Erick Chastain: sadly jack Kerouac grew up catholic
 
01:03:06 Erick Chastain: but ironically he led me to the faith (indirectly)
 
01:08:36 Eric Williams: Transhumanism is a mess
 
01:08:48 Rachel: "Face it, you're a moral freak!" okay..yeah I could see how that could be problematic.
 
01:09:38 Rachel: Because it gets filtered through the perspective of a mutilated sense of self that is not* rooted in Christ.
 
01:09:53 Eric Williams: Great. Now I'm hearing "moral freak" being sung by Rick James in my head. ;)
 
01:12:31 Rachel: Oh my goodness that is already happening.
 
01:13:33 Carol Nypaver: Frightening….
 
01:13:37 Rafael Patrignani: it's old like mankind but apostasy makes it worse
 
01:14:28 Rafael Patrignani: the lack of the spiritual anchor puts in danger the boat
 
01:14:51 Anthony: Khalil Gibran, "The Wise King" poem is about societal delusion
 
01:23:24 St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education: I am most turned off by the turn of some religious people pointing at others rather than asking for God’s grace that we ourselves become fire.  As I think of the saints of renewal they seem to be more about the fire of the spirit rather than blame of others
 
01:24:39 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks Father David
 
01:25:26 Mitchell Hunt: Still uploading to YouTube afterwards?
 
01:26:10 Eric Williams: Easier to keep trolls and spammers out via Zoom, too
 
01:28:18 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:28:23 Mitchell Hunt: Awesome appreciate the pod bean archive 👍
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part I

This evening we began Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and the benefits of questioning them with zeal and desiring to learn from them. In many ways this is an important hypothesis for the modern mind; to understand the need to be docile, that is, teachable. We must learn to be humble in our approach to the mystery of God‘s revelation of himself to us and his son. We will always be in the position of learners. Likewise, we will never be beyond needing instruction in the life of faith from those who have an experiential knowledge of striving to enter by the narrow path. 
In fact, we have the distinct responsibility, the fathers tell us, to either learn with sincerity what we do not know or to teach with clarity whatever we have learned. There is no static position in the life of faith. If we believe so, we fall into a kind of madness that ends with apostasy. Part of our desire for instruction is our desire for God and our yearning for him. We should always be thirsty to understand the ways of the Lord. 
It has been said that a starving man has no sense of taste. We see this in our own generation. The failure to teach the faith and the pass on an understanding of the spiritual life has led to a void so deep that men and women have begun to search far and wide for something to nourish them; despite the fact that they have what is most precious already in their possession. Even if we seem to understand nothing or we see no immediate change within us - as if we ignored the teaching of the elders - we should be confident that the seed they planted will eventually bear fruit. Furthermore, simply being in the presence of those who are holy engraves on the soul the immutable archetype of virtue. Simply being in the presence of one who loves God can instill that same love and devotion within our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:06 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: page 134 Hypothesis XVIII
 
00:24:00 Forrest Cavalier: Mt 13:12 To anyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
 
00:31:44 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta run 👋
 
00:37:01 Erick: that liturgical culture is still there at your local FSSP Latin mass parish
 
00:38:10 Erick: even rogation days don't make sense in the present day liturgical calendar
 
00:38:34 Erick: it did make sense in the 1962 calendar.... we have lost the syntax
 
00:38:53 Carol Nypaver: Or Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest Latin Mass. 😇
 
00:39:07 Erick: indeed carol!
 
00:39:40 Eric Williams: I’m worried that Traditionis Custodes will make it harder for Westerners to rediscover traditions like rogation days or more “rigorous” fasting. (I don’t bring TC up to be controversial. I’m really quite sad for the future of venerable traditions in the West.)
 
00:39:57 Forrest Cavalier: I attend FSSP, Ordinary Form, and Byzantine. No one is safe from new deceits of Satan, at any parish.
 
00:41:05 Erick: it's funny because TC is making it easier to access rogation days etc in the short run. but in the long run agreed.
 
00:41:37 Erick: (because TLM attendance has gone up since TC came out)
 
01:09:57 Rachel: That is the exact thing that stuck with me as well! I went to a Mass many years before my conversion and everyone was kneeling and focused on Our Lord. I had no. idea. what was happening before me. Bit it stuck with me.
 
01:11:46 Forrest Cavalier: She might be Byzantine. They stand for that part of Liturgy!
 
01:13:17 Rachel: lol
 
01:15:33 Ambrose Little: Well, I’m gonna be the odd man out here.. I too have gone to TLM masses for years, and I like it and appreciate it, but… 
 
One doesn’t need rogation days, particular ways of celebrating the mass, or the old calendar to imbue one’s daily life with the Faith. We have a current Church calendar. It is packed with memorials and feasts for saints, Our Lady, and the life of Christ. We have Lent. We have Advent. We have Eastertide. We have Christmastide. We have the Divine Office—you can fill your day with prayer, seven times a day if you wish—and more. The Holy Mass is remarkably available for most of us—even I here in the boonies have two reasonably close daily masses. There are many third orders, institutes, associations, and more (e.g., programs like This Man is You, King’s Men, etc.) that offer ways of more fully practicing the faith with the help of others.
 
If we can’t imbue our lives with the Faith with all these available to us, then the problem isn’t with the Church, it is with us.
 
01:17:01 Vicki Nichols: I agree with you Ambrose
 
01:17:55 Erick: we are human ambrose LOL. The Church should make it easier, not harder
 
01:20:16 Rachel: The Liturgy affects the way you pray and what a person believes and how understands and relates to God and the world around them. It all starts there and ends there, from Communion to Communion.
 
01:20:34 Erick: and the Church, when she takes things away or alters them to be less helpful, actually hurts our process of becoming imbued with the faith. as st Thomas says, we learn through the senses
 
01:22:14 Rachel: Yes!
 
01:22:22 Ambrose Little: Everything I listed is there to help, and more. There are oodles of helps. Many people live vibrant, faith-filled lives happily without missing the older forms/devotions. Have to be careful about projecting personal preferences out as if they are objectively superior.
 
01:23:22 Rachel: Thank you all and Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVII

Tonight we read Hypothesis 17 on what we build our hope upon in this life. The focus of the hypothesis, on the surface, is avarice and greed; the intensity of this passion and the insatiability of our desire for worldly goods. We are given one story after another revealing to us, however, that the real struggle is found within the heart. There is a kind of tendency within us toward idolatry or better said in the context of our relationship with God adultery. We attach ourselves to the things of this world, we love them and desire them in the fashion that we should only love God. God is the pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field. He who has faith and sees the value of this love should be willing to set aside all to process it. Like St Paul, we should see all as rubbish in comparison to the love of God that we receive in Christ Jesus. We are shown in the stories the subtlety of this kind of avarice even to the point of commodifying spiritual acts and deeds. We can see them as possessions arising out of the self and the desire for self-preservation rather than the love of God. We are warned that this passion can become so rooted within us that it cannot be subjugated. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:23 Mark Kelly: A friend recently commented that Modern culture is now based on addiction.  Addicting us to many perceived needs.
 
00:25:48 Ashley Kaschl: 💯
 
00:26:05 John Breslin: 👍
 
00:37:54 Anthony: "MY PRECIOUS!!!!!"
 
00:38:26 Anthony: I didn't appreciate that LOTR was a commentary on basic vices.
 
00:38:33 Rachel: Me too
 
00:40:45 Mark Kelly: A great point about LOTR.  Most of the “desire” for the ring relies on the imagination of the one who covet’s it.  The power of The Ring is never fully demonstrated.  The lust for the imagined power alone is another to lead the soul to destruction.
 
00:41:50 Anthony: Oh wow, thanks, Mark.
 
00:45:55 Rachel: It reminds me of the Franz Jaggerstatter film
 
00:49:04 Rachel: When one truly seeks silence, internal and external as much as possible while living in the world, it seems to me Our Lord will provide many experiences of having to cling only to Him. There are sufferings in people's lives that can be like the cell or the desert in the midst of community etc.
 
00:56:10 Rachel: That quote made my 18 y.o. laugh out loud and say I love that. Never heard that quote before!
 
00:59:26 Anthony: And our Anglo American law is very much about acquiring wealth and keeping it in the family.  It militates against virtue, and is a "schoolmaster" in vice.
 
01:08:52 John Breslin: Fruit of the poisonous tree…
 
01:10:40 maureencunningham: What is the name of the book she reading?
 
01:12:20 Forrest Cavalier: John
 
01:12:32 Carol Nypaver: Josef Pieper Virtues of the Human Heart
 
01:12:33 Ashley Kaschl: A brief reader on the virtues of the human heart by Josef Pieper
 
01:16:00 Mark Kelly: I love Fr. Lazarus
 
01:16:39 maureencunningham: Thank You
 
01:17:14 Ashley Kaschl: Here’s the prayer of self-offering, too 😁 
 
Receive, Lord, my entire freedom.
Accept the whole of my memory,
my intellect and my will.
Whatever I have or possess,
it was you who gave it to me;
I restore it to you in full,
and I surrender it completely
to the guidance of your will.
Give me only love of you
together with your grace,
and I am rich enough
and ask for nothing more.
 Amen.
 
01:18:03 maureencunningham: Beautiful thank you
 
01:18:25 Anthony: Weight of the heart goes along with the fire burning the gold, too. The philosophical property of earth was heaviness.  The property of fire was lightness.  We can either cooperate with the lightness of God's fire, or God's fire will just conquer the heaviness of earth against our will.
 
01:19:18 maureencunningham: Blessing Thank You
 
01:20:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you!
 
01:20:08 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:20:47 Rachel: Yay!!
 
01:20:54 Natalia Andreu: Thank you!
 
01:20:55 Rachel: Thank you! Perfect timing
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Five, Part I

We began this evening with letter 75 entitled “The tricks of the enemy.” Anastasia has fallen into sadness inexplicably. Her heart is overcome with heaviness and darkness. Theophan, therefore, wants her to understand exactly what is going on: she is engaged in spiritual warfare and these are the attacks of the enemy. 
However, he exhorts her, “the power of the cross is with us! Take heart and stand fast.”She need not fear the enemy that is attacking her and approaching her from every side, creating such a disturbance that her world seems to be turned upside down. She must simply cope as well as she can and be long-suffering in the battle knowing that it will pass. She need only “not consent” to anything that is not necessary. Similar to Job, Anastasia must thank the Lord both for the times that are peaceful as well as the times of difficulty. She must simply throw herself before the Lord with her whole being as well as call upon the Mother of God to intercede on her behalf. 
Theophan does not deny that she is suffering attack. However, he wants her to be like a soldier; steeling herself against the enemy’s attacks, unwilling to change her intention or decision one iota. She must struggle and renounce his suggestions and curse them. The more that the evil one murmurs in her ears the more she must call out to Christ and simply express her belief even when all seems shrouded in darkness. She must state clearly “I do not want any of this, anything the enemy suggest.” Rather, he tells her, she must want one thing; to “speak solemnly before the Lord in her heart.”  Fight the good fight of faith even when you find yourself thrown down and seemingly overcome.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:22:47 Lyle: Do NOT consent!  Each of us KNOWS, yes KNOWS, where we are spiritually weak.  If you can not do anything else, pray - "Lord, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner!  Cleanse my thoughts!  Cleanse my heart!  MAKE my thoughts, YOUR thoughts!"
 
00:23:20 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen!
 
00:33:51 Lyle: Even the Archangels do NOT battle the demons directly.  Michael on behalf of God Almighty, as a representative of His kingdom said "The Lord rebuke thee."
 
00:40:12 Lyle: Deuteronomy 31:6.  Be strong AND courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them (distractions, demons, etc.) , for the LORD your God goes WITH you; he will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.”
 
00:49:52 renwitter: “The Asceticism of Joy”
 
00:55:05 Rafael Patrignani: we know and live the perfection of love in the trials. are we with God or not?
 
00:57:00 Sharon: Reading and praying over “Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence, the secret of peace and happiness” has helped  me, Anthony.
 
00:57:13 Lyle: John 14:27.  Our Lord, HIMSELF said, “Peace I leave with you, MY peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let NOT your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”
 
01:17:45 Cathy: Very well said Erick
 
01:22:38 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part V and Hypothesis XVI

Tonight in our reading of The Evergetinos we concluded Hypothesis 15 and read the entirety of Hypothesis 16. Both have a similar focus: our natural loves and affections for others or the things of this world are to be set aside for the love of God in the kingdom. We must acknowledge that all things begin and end with God and all things come to us from His hand. Simply put - all is grace and our acknowledgment of this truth should give us a kind of freedom to set aside or worldly attachments be they bad or good. Once again, we are presented with multiple illustrative stories that challenge our sensibilities. We see individuals who heroically struggle to let go of worldly ties, not because they are evil but in order to be able to embrace not just the greater good but that which is eternal. Even that which is good, even our virtues must be perfected by the grace of God. In many different ways we can be willful; we can choose paths, even those that are religious in nature, because they appeal to her sensibilities rather than being clearly something that God demands. We must let go of the illusion that we are the source of life and salvation. It is a particularly modern notion of creating a better world or acting to bring about societal change as the object of the deepest aspiration of a person’s life. All that we read from the lives of the Saints shows that they see things through the lens of God’s revelation of Himself to us in His Son.  Our dignity and destiny as human beings is found in Christ and it is Him that we must seek and devote ourselves to completely. It is only when all things are subordinated to Him that we come to see our lives and others with a kind of clarity.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:01 Rachel: Oh darn, Im too late! lol
 
00:11:41 Daniel Allen: Where are we at?
 
00:11:58 Carol Nypaver: 123
 
00:16:59 Anthony: This may be the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhKorITYvDU
 
00:44:03 Rachel: I LOVE that story! Because I am a twin, so I understand very much!
 
00:45:02 Rachel: Wait, weren't they twin brother and sister? I could be wrong...
 
00:45:33 renwitter: Yes :-)
 
00:52:38 Anthony: This story also indicates that the monastics were not completely cut of from their families....St. Ioannikos had to have known of his brother-in-law's rage for him to pray for his brother-in-law.
 
00:54:34 Rachel: :)
 
01:00:07 jack: Their human dignity
 
01:01:30 Rachel: Please share the talk by Kallistos Ware!🙏🏼
 
01:02:10 Anthony: This disfigurement of the image of ChristI think distinguishes our understanding of sin from _Total Depravity_ of the Calvinists.
 
01:03:00 Rachel: WOw, wow, wow! Thank you!!
 
01:03:12 Erick Chastain: that's great!
 
01:05:09 renwitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_of_the_Dead_Christ_in_the_Tomb
 
01:08:15 Erick Chastain: which book by Mectilde de bar are you reading now?
 
01:08:17 Rachel: Oh my goodness. One of my favorite readings.
 
01:08:33 renwitter: Breviary of Fire
 
01:08:42 Erick Chastain: thanks
 
01:09:17 Daniel Allen: What caryll hauls lander book was that quote from?
 
01:10:46 Carol: I think it may be Rocking-Horse Catholic
 
01:12:29 Daniel Allen: Thanks
 
01:13:44 Rachel: I had never heard Fr. Abernathy's interpretation but the one Anthony stated. I don't think they conflict though, as the intention of the heart, the lengths this child was willing to go to in order to live the life of a monk in this community.
 
01:16:35 Rachel: Yes, exactly. This is one special case.
 
01:17:03 Rachel: St. Rose of Lima used to try to make her face ugly.
 
01:17:37 Rachel: Not because she thought the gift of beauty was bad.
 
01:19:06 Rachel: It is jarring because of the reality of disordered passions.
 
01:19:26 Anthony: Sometimes the young saints need correctives: like St Simeon Stylite went too far in his penances.  We need to be sane, not crazy.
 
01:20:23 Erick Chastain: Some are fools for Christ
 
01:21:01 Rachel: Yes, I do not tell my non Catholic family or, even some fellow Catholic these stories of the Saints. Because I think it would cause scandal and be too jarring.
 
01:22:40 Forrest Cavalier: In the story here, if the scandal was temptation, the knowledge of paternity was not enough to protect him in one skete, and he expresses doubts that it will go better when it is not known. He was desperate.
 
01:24:40 Ambrose Little: Doesn’t seem to follow why they’d focus on the paternity, if it were just youthful attractiveness? Maybe nepotism? Maybe they had a rule against father-son in same monastery?
 
01:25:41 renwitter: I agree. It seems to me that the scandal really was the Paternity
 
01:26:36 Anthony: I usually thought of nepotism in Middle Ages. It didn't occur to me to read it here.  It could fit.
 
01:26:48 renwitter: Why else would the problem the son presents be that everyone knows they are Father and Son, and they will know it at the next place to? I thought he disfigured himself so that no one would see the resemblance.
 
01:29:00 Ambrose Little: I always look at the particularly self-disciplining saints as a kind of object lesson—they are showing just how far we are from where we ought to be. The saintliness came first; they were called to these penances, presumably, for a reason, if their wills were unified with God’s, as is the idea for sanctification.
 
01:29:57 sue and mark: while I do not know much, I have always heard that holiness is always beautifully balanced.
 
01:30:51 Rachel: Thank you, God bless!
 
01:31:10 David Fraley: This was great! Thank you!
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Four

Thank you to everyone who participated in tonight's group on St. Theophan's Letters on the Spiritual Life to Anastasia.  Great conversation as always.
Synopsis:
Tonight we read letter 74 entitled “Yearning for the monastic life”. Anastasia has made a decision to enter the monastery; she has decided to give herself over completely to God in mind and body. And yet, Theophan senses within her a kind of urgency that is pressing her forward and making her want to rush the moment of her entrance. He wants her, however, to pray and wait with patience. He does not want her to enter the religious life in a willful fashion precisely because she’s entering in order to set aside her will in the spirit of obedience. Thus, she should strive to let God act in her life and open the door for her to enter in the time He desires. For the moment she is to focus upon embracing the life of a monastic at home; deepening her spiritual life, living in obedience to her parents, making herself a novice in relationship to all of her siblings. She is to be, as it were, a soldier in training; humbling herself and preparing herself for the rigors of the religious life. Such waiting takes nothing from her. In fact it serves her by allowing her to mature emotionally and spiritually precisely that she might endure in her vocation.  He reminds her of the history behind such a vocation. In the beginning monasteries did not exist - nor vows. What existed were men and women filled with a desire and yearning for God and it is this spirit that she must foster. She must enflame the desire for God within her own heart by being faithful in the moment. She must wait and adapt her life and her habits to those in the monastery. But most of all she must wait upon the Lord who says “Come follow Me”!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:26 Rachel: How do I get a snazzy picture like that??
 
00:19:23 Anthony: And some people had her religious desire, but God (I suppose) chose them never to enter a community, such as Benedict Labre or the Pilgrim of the Russian classic.
 
00:28:05 Edward Kleinguetl: "Gentle, organic approach" -- love it!
 
00:31:20 Anthony: FYI under the Lombard Laws of the 600's to about 800s or so, Vowed and nonvowed persons living a religious life were both recognized as having special protection against violation by criminals.  One living the life but not vowed as treated as or just about as at the state of a religious person.
 
00:38:09 Anthony: "The Ancient Path" is Talbot's book about his community
 
01:14:26 Wayne Mackenzie: got to go see you monday
 
01:16:24 Anthony: We in the West are sometimes formed by a relatively small cadre of Western Catholics, too....and that is magnified by the psychologies of certain persons who choose messages to magnify to the rest of us.
 
01:17:11 Rachel: I do have to say that put here in California, I am  blessed with a wonderful grace filled parish. 🙏
 
01:17:31 Edward Kleinguetl: Rachel, that is great!
 
01:20:38 Rachel: Even though I do and have encountered hesitation about the desert Fathers, when I point out how there are western Saints who teach and lived the same way, who loved the desert Fathers and read quotes from the desert Fathers, people start usually listening. I then refer them to the Oratory talks.
 
01:21:27 Edward Kleinguetl: Evagrios the Solitary: “If you are a theologian you truly pray. If you truly pray you are a theologian.”  This is what we lost in the West when spirituality was separated from theology.
 
01:21:48 Rachel: I think I am, but, have never been. I know about th Orthodox parish downtown and go pray Vespers sometimes with them. a beautiful church.
 
01:22:02 Rachel: I am in Sacramento.
 
01:23:45 Rachel: I'm I'm rad Trad too lol
 
01:24:15 Anthony: Pope Francis elevated St. Gregory of Narek as Dr of the Church though he was canonically in Armenian Apostolic Church.  And WOW is Gregory's works beautiful.
 
01:24:45 Edward Kleinguetl: Details 😀
 
01:26:39 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part IV

Thank you once again to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos. Your deep reading of the text always inspires me and fills me with a greater thirst and desire for Christ and a more radical embrace of the Gospel.
Synopsis:
We continued our reading of Hypothesis 15, reflecting upon the kind of exile that the monks embraced; an exile that was not rooted in a hatred of the world but rather in an absolute response to Christ’s call “follow me”.  In this the monks become living icons of the gospel and of Christ who said that his food was to do the will of the heavenly Father. 
Over and over again in the stories we are taken into a deeper view of the nature of love. Our love as human beings must be perfected by the grace of God and directed by His providence for it to be a bear fruit that is worthy of the kingdom and that will endure. In this sense we must be guided by prudence; not simply responding to our first emotional reaction to certain circumstances nor allowing ourselves to be drawn into things that might stir the remembrance of things that can lead us away from God’s Providential will into self-will. We are, in our lives, to be guided by the Spirit of God and to put on the mind of Christ. 
This is the focal point of our lives; not being catalysts for social change in the world but rather allowing the grace of God to be the catalyst of change within our hearts. We are to be guided by the virtues that have God as their object - faith, hope, and love. These alone draw us to God’s desired end which is life in Him and Love eternal.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:55 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Sorry Dave Fraley.  No snacks
 
00:08:27 D Fraley: Oh. It was good to see you anyway. Good night!
 
00:08:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: haha
 
00:24:07 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:24:17 Ashley Kaschl: 121
 
00:24:26 Carol Nypaver: TY
 
00:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: No prob
 
00:30:19 Rachel: What? Willfull in our acts of charity?? 🙏🏼🙇🏼‍♀️
 
00:32:11 Mark Kelly: Another desert story about being “on fire.”                  
Abba Lot went to see abba Joseph and he said to him, "Abba, as far as I can, I 
say my  little office, I fast a  little, I pray  and meditate, I live in peace 
and as  far as I can I  purify my thoughts. What else  can I do?" Then the old 
man stood up and streched his hands toward heaven; his fingers became like ten 
lamps of  fire and he said to  him, "If you will, you  can become  all flame."
 
00:33:29 Ambrose Little: Maybe Joseph did crack Jesus upside the head for that, so that’s why He went ahead and performed a miracle.
 
00:53:32 Rachel: Yes, The asceticism of the thoughts, taking every thought captive, can seem to make one feel as if they are doing violence to themselves. In a way, they are, to their old self. But, I heard a priest once say no to do violence to oneself. The only way I reconciled this seeming contradiction of my experience and Father's advice, is to go and stay with Christ. The priests cannot heal what has been broken, only Christ can so it forces one to stay, with Christ and be patient to let Christ heal, the heart in His way, in His time.
 
00:54:15 Rachel: Ugh, this was meant for Father Abernathy.
 
01:17:08 Forrest Cavalier: It has to be both/and, not either/or. Christianity meets the world in its present.
 
01:17:24 Rachel: Yes, very happy note! lol
 
01:18:19 Eric Williams: Gee, are you saying the Church shouldn’t enthusiastically deploy reliable catalysts for change? ;)
 
01:19:12 Rachel: Yes Ren!! Thank you!!
 
01:19:31 Ambrose Little: We gotta also avoid substituting seeking exceptionalism for authentic discipleship.
 
01:19:33 Forrest Cavalier: Can we say "apostles" instead of "reliable catalysts for change"?
 
01:20:00 Eric Williams: I got that whole phrase from a corporate buzzword generator ;)
 
01:20:23 Forrest Cavalier: Oh, good. I thought it came from a synodality document!
 
01:20:37 Forrest Cavalier: A little of both, Father.
 
01:21:58 Forrest Cavalier: Amen!
 
01:23:41 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
 
01:23:47 Rachel: Thank you God bless!
 
01:23:49 Mitchell Hunt: thank you
 
01:23:50 D Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Three, Part II

Tonight we concluded letter 73 to Anastasia. Once again St. Theophan is seeking to help prepare her for the path that God has called her to take. Even though she is still living at home she is not to remove her hand, as it were, from the plow or look back. She must keep her focus intently upon Christ and not lose that gaze even for a moment. Walk circumspectly, he tells her. Guard your heart in all the ways that you have been shown -  for God is a jealous God and would have your heart completely. In the rarest of ways she is to be the spouse of Christ, giving herself to him in mind and body and with an undivided heart. She must even admonish herself at times - knowing that she cannot rely upon her zeal or constancy.  A life that is lived in half measures is destined for great sadness. This is true and whatever station in life or vocation we find ourselves. The consecrated virgin becomes for us the eschatological sign par excellence; we are destined to share in the fullness of the life of the holy Trinity and to be wrapped in an eternal love that would have us completely.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:32:38 Mark Cummings: The Carmelites describe our union with Christ as a mystical union that is vastly superior to whatever bonds of union may be found in a physical or moral body...a real union, so real that it surpasses all the others "as the grace surpasses nature, and immortal realities surpass perishable realities"
 
00:36:16 Anthony: A family ideally is a little "monastery," in my opinion, exercising humility, and caring for each other to bring each other to Heaven....and when children grow up and marry, they establish "daughter monasteries" of their initial family.
 
00:37:13 Mitchell Hunt: Important topic, I think the even the  married can be internally chaste (withdrawn from lust and the sexual spasm).  Similarly a "celebate" can be not chaste behind  closed doors
 
00:46:17 Mark Cummings: As many know, Saint JPII has some great writing on sexuality and love. https://www.jp2.info/JP2_on_Love-Responsibility.pdf
 
00:49:14 Anthony: 1 Cor 7:14....the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife.
 
00:49:37 Anthony: If wifehood is not holiness, she cannot make him holy.
 
00:52:49 Anthony: 1 Cor 7:7 "but everyone has his proper gift from God"
 
00:56:23 renwitter: I’ve always loved the term grindstone for the people in our lives who help make us holy. Sandpaper is a good one too though :-D
 
01:00:26 Anthony: Grindstone - I make my own tools for chasing and repousse.  Grindstones and sandpaper are _indispensable_ to getting a polished tool face.  If your tools are good, you can make a thing of beauty.
 
01:02:09 Mark Cummings: We must embrace our crosses.
 
01:15:28 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:15:47 Anthony: OK PAdre
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part III

Picking up once again with Hypothesis 15, we find ourselves considering the nature of detachment from the things of the world; a detachment that is rooted first and foremost in our response to the love that God has shown and given us and his only begotten son. What does our embrace of this divine love means for our lives in this world?  To take hold of this godly love what is there of the self and our attachment to the things of this world that we must be let go? 
So often there are subtle ways that we will cling to natural sensibilities and loves and we view our lives through that lens alone. Yet the Incarnation and the Paschal Mystery is meant to radically reshape our view of what it is to be a human being both in relationship to God and to one another. Our dignity and destiny is caught up in what has been given to us through our baptism - a share in the divine life. It is the faith and hope that this reality evokes that must guide our lives and the decisions that we make. 
Inevitably the stories that we read from the fathers of the desert jar our sensibilities, especially when they are very much tied to a worldly perspective. In many ways we must allow ourselves to experience the discomfort of having our perspective on life challenged so radically. God has turned our world upside down in revealing Himself to us. It is that revelation that must shape all we do and our understanding of life. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:52 Randi Altman: 🙏
 
00:11:33 Vicki Nichols: the video is really good. Jerzy Popieluzsko is a very inspiring person
 
00:38:38 Anthony: I've studied Socialism (philosophically and politically) for years.  Socialism is the tyranny that comes from bringing men's vision of "god" and men onto the earth - and you will like it, so to speak.
 
00:44:06 Anthony: Like St. Paul: 'I begged God three times to take away this thorn of the flesh, but 'My grace is sufficient for thee.''
 
00:51:03 Ambrose Little: Christ got told “no” by God, when he asked that “this cup might pass from me.” He needed to live in solidarity with we humans.
 
00:53:24 Randi Altman: It’s not responsiblity. It is an incredibly beautiful grace!!!
 
00:58:33 Ambrose Little: You were reading the Bible, largely. ;)
 
01:07:34 Randi Altman: He wanted or expected more of his son
 
01:18:45 Randi Altman: Be thankful to have hairs!🤣
 
01:19:14 Daniel Allen: Perfect closing insight.
 
01:19:55 Michael Winn: Thank you, Father! (my first time here - Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest in Winnipeg)
 
01:19:57 Randi Altman: Thank you for having me
 
01:20:19 maureencunningham: When. Saint John
 
01:20:23 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David
 
01:20:33 D Fraley: Good night!
 

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventy-Two, Part II and Letter Seventy-Three, Part I

This evening we picked up with the letter 72 where is Saint Theophan begins to engage Anastasia about the decision that she has made to become a religious. More than ever it is necessary to become closer to God, he tells her. She must fix her mind on the remembrance of God in every circumstance. Likewise she is to hold onto the remembrance of death in order that she might lose fear of everything within this world and also to order everything to its ultimate end and the final judgment. In other words, she must work harder than ever to clarify her vision and her desire. She must set about her life a little more decisively and await the fulfillment of her calling with patience. 
In Letter 73, Theophan begins to focus with Anastasia upon what is at the heart of this vocation: chastity or consecrated virginity to be more specific in her case. God has called her to Himself with a kind of jealous love, desiring that she give herself over to him in mind and body. Although never having set out to lead her upon such a path,  Theophan is overjoyed for her and gives thanks to God for the calling. The decision has been made but she is so far from the actual deed. Therefore, she must not fall into naïveté but rather realize that the enemy will seek to beguile her through his subtlety. She must remain sober and awake, vigilant and prayerful. The enemy can attack at any moment. She has been especially blessed by God to walk along this path that has existed from apostolic times; and so she must seek to treat it as the most precious of gifts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:29:47 Carol Nypaver: For how long was she under the spiritual direction of St. Theophan?
 
00:32:13 Lyle: And it is never, never, NEVER too late to desire that CHANGE.
 
00:35:01 Lyle: In spite of those "barriers", God's Spirit has led and WILL lead "seekers" to Him.
 
00:38:22 Mitchell Hunt: Every Apprentice needs a Master/Masters to learn from
 
00:48:04 Mark Cummings: I believe it will be a worthwhile exercise to review the Letters again and write down the things that will help me to map out the way to a deeper relationship with Jesus. Off the top of my head, simplifying, asceticism, memorizing key scripture/psalms, mortification, prayer (prayer rule, the Jesus prayer,etc), guarding against sin and avoiding the near occasion of sin by avoiding spending time with those that may contribute to my corruption., recognizing and embracing the Grace of God, the list seems to go on and on. If someone has already gone through the exercise of creating this map of the Letters then please let me know if you will share it.
 
01:17:39 Anthony: In Dante's Paradiso, the soul is drawn upward to God by the gravity of love.
 
01:19:34 Ashley Kaschl: A book that gives greater clarity on the charism of celibacy and speaks more on virginity is “And You are Christ’s” by Thomas Dubay, if anyone wanted to dive a little deeper into that topic.
 
01:22:35 Mark Cummings: Saint JP IIs Five loves,  according to Jason Evert's book Saint John Paul the Great: His Five Loves, includes Human Love and does a great job of providing a synopsis of Theology of the Body and puts it in to the context of loving God by loving others.
 
01:27:49 Mark Cummings: Thank you, Father!
 
01:28:04 Eric Williams: Have a blessed Theophany tomorrow!
 
01:28:09 Rachel: Thank you Father, and thank you everyone. Great questuons!
 
01:28:24 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏
 
01:28:25 Rachel: Blessed Theophany!
 
01:28:40 Erick Chastain: blessed theophany and a happy epiphany to all of you