Season 6

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part II

We picked up this evening with our reading of the very challenging Hypothesis 22: the Fathers’ teaching to avoid the world and worldly relations. However, we must understand that when they speak of the world they speak of those things or relationships that are driven more by the passions than by grace and the love of God. 
Central to this is having a rightly ordered love that is focused upon Christ. All things must begin and end with Him and all things are judged in light of the Love of the Kingdom. This Love must become the lens through which we view all things, most especially our own thoughts and desires. What is it - at this moment - that is going to be pleasing to God or fulfill our obedience to our elder? Are we doing things in subtle ways simply to please ourselves; always seeking to form and fashion our own identity and to be the source of meaning for ourselves and our lives? 
For a Christian living in the world to “stay in one’s cell“ means to keep watch over my inner self, my own heart. This is why the Fathers put forward as an essential practice unceasing prayer, and particular the Jesus Prayer. It is only by constantly calling out to God that we are given the strength and the grace to love God and to love others in the way He desires for us. We are called to be Christ for one another and so our love and our actions must be Christlike. To be anything otherwise is to strip the gospel of its power to make ourselves unrecognizable as those who have been made sons and daughters of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:12 carolnypaver: Congratulations!🥳
 
00:18:31 Debra: What are we congratulating? I came in late
 
00:18:50 carolnypaver: 500 podcasts for Fr. David!
 
00:19:09 Ambrose Little, OP: remarkable progress. how did we get to p188?? 🙂
 
00:20:07 Debra: Oh, wow! Thanks Carolyn!
 
00:32:55 Anthony: Does this mean that even as being a contemplative is a vocation, staying in a city to minister must be a specific vocatiom?
 
00:59:00 Rachel: I love that song!
 
01:01:29 Annie Karto: So true about doing more than what God asks, especially in ministry
 
01:05:15 Erick Chastain: Stop being friends as much as possible with worldly people. It will help everything tremendously. Having done this it helps remove many occasions of sin.
 
01:10:42 Carol Nypaver: It’s difficult to remember, as parents, that the goal of parenting is not that our children love us but to raise them to be citizens of Heaven, which  sometimes causes them to hate us.
 
01:11:19 Rachel: Thank you Carol!
 
01:12:04 Erick Chastain: I read it as saying we should flee from the world as much as possible, including worldly people, to protect ourselves from the flaring of the passions
 
01:13:04 Erick Chastain: but without abandoning our responsibilities if we are not a monk
 
01:19:59 John White: The author of The Imitation of Christ paraphrased the Roman philosopher/playwright Seneca "As often as I have been among men, I have returned home a lesser man"
 
01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Challenge to connect with people if we always are trying to be aloof.
 
01:20:11 iPad (10)maureen: I think the monk you met You spotted Joy, It Joy we give up things
 
01:23:31 iPad (10)maureen: I say the. Jesus prayer when something I do not like  is on TV
 
01:23:40 Ambrose Little, OP: You could try time boxing. Like “I'll watch an hour with you" or something and/or “just this show on this day" or similar.
 
01:24:39 Erick Chastain: that's a great suggestion Ambrose!
 
01:30:13 Annie Karto: What beautiful teaching Fr. Thank you
 
01:31:32 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part VI and Hypothesis XXII, Part I

We began this evening with the final pages of Hypothesis 21 describing the importance of not opening one’s conscience to an individual unless guided by the Grace of God to do so. It is not a small thing to entrust oneself to the care of another, especially the care of one’s soul. Therefore we are counseled to be discriminating. For the elder that we choose, or rather the elder that God chooses for us, is a gift; a relationship of love and devotion. An Elder does not see himself as detached from our struggles but rather enters into them and takes penance and prayer upon himself for our healing. We do not struggle in isolation. Understanding the importance of this relationship,then, we should pray for our elder and love him. 
Moving on to Hypothesis 22 we are warned to avoid meetings with careless men and avoiding anything that would disturb the peace of our heart or the stillness that has been hard won. We must never see idle conversation as insignificant. Rather we must understand that if allow ourselves to be drawn along by such conversations our consciences will coarsen and we will find ourselves engaged in grievous conversations and behaviors. 
We are given a wonderful example of an elder who, because of his purity and innocence, finds God responding immediately to his prayers for others. No impediment is placed before the action of God‘s grace in his life or acting through his intercession. We should not be surprised when the Fathers tell us that if we neglect our relationship with God or treat His grace cheaply that our prayers go unanswered.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:16 B K-LEB: like fr zozima
 
00:29:29 Ambrose Little, OP: “outraged ... since he did not rely totally on the help of God." Love that.
 
00:31:10 Anthony: So much for "Grace Alone."  One the one hand, all good is from God, all good is a grace.  But, we must exercise the faculty of human nature (which is also a gift) to choose the grace, to at least choose a desire for the grace.  I think St. Anselm says this in "One Truth" or "On Free Will"
 
00:32:22 Anthony: "On Truth"
 
00:39:21 Anthony: In America, we tie sin to things: sugary drinks, alcohol, guns, etc.  It is very selective. But traditionally, sin is attached to our deficiencies of soul - and a Puritan look at sin does not take this psychology into account.
 
00:40:36 Sheila Applegate: Attachment to having life the way we want it?
 
00:50:10 B K-LEB: i agree anthony
 
00:50:38 B K-LEB: i personally think the inner spiritual sins are far worse than the physical sins
 
00:52:02 B K-LEB: i'd rather go to heaven fat and humble than thin and proud, haha
 
00:53:18 Ren: It would be so good for seminarians to read this particular hypothesis when they study confession. So much meaningful, and practical advice. The way to engage the penitent, the call to enter into repentance with them…all just so good.
 
00:54:41 B K-LEB: too much theology can make us proud pharisees
 
00:56:56 Anthony: Copts require new priests to spend 40 days in monastery
 
00:57:56 Bridget McGinley: The Jesuits used to not be able to listen to women's confessions until they had been a priest for 10 years.
 
01:02:50 B K-LEB: isn't spiritual pride essentially the worst kind of sin?
 
01:04:59 Anthony: He gives us a remedy: using the 2nd person plural in the Our Father so we lump ourselves together with all other sinners: "Forgive US OUR trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us / Lead US not into temptation but deliver US from evil."
 
01:20:36 Ren: The warning that idle words quickly become harmful ones is really, really helpful. I have often seen this happen in myself, yet I’ve never heard it explicitly said that the one can so easily lead to the other. It casts a far more serious light on consenting to idle conversation, knowing how easily it leads to something more sinister. So many “little sins” become more sinister when you examine the greater sins that the open the door to. I know that even thinking about addressing this is terrifying for me…but it does make me think about how much idle conversation one is exposed to in television, movies, radio, social media…definitely thought provoking.
 
01:31:06 Ren: Awesome way to make a discussion of the Fathers topically connected to the holiday :D GO REVOLUTION!! ;-)
 
01:34:46 B K-LEB: thank u so much
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part V

What a beautiful group this evening. Once again we hear a young brother asking  questions about transgressing the commands and guidance given by an elder. What we hear over and over again is an emphasis upon the fact that an elder is not disconnected from one in his care. If a person transgresses a command or ignores the guidance of an elder, he is to return to him without fear or with the expectation that his humility will be met with anything but gentleness, tenderness, and further counsel. Of course, this does not mean we fall into neglect or become indifferent about striving to live holy lives.  What we find in the Fathers again and again is an emphasis upon the value of repentance; turning to God with humble hearts and receiving a flood of his grace and mercy. 
Again the brother asks if one should simply neglect to learn about the spiritual life so as not to be held accountable for particular sins. The elder quickly tells him that such a thought is sinister in that it blocks the path to true healing. Sin brings its own suffering. Repentance is a gift from God that opens up a path to healing and hope.  Why would one not want to know the path that God has opened up for us? Why would one not desire the wisdom of the counsel of the fathers in order that they might truly be healed? Furthermore, the elder emphasizes that God values the person of his servants precisely because they imitate Christ himself. They offer advice with intense and warm prayer to God and make their own the sufferings of others crying out to God, “Master save us, we perish.“  Save US! We do not struggle as Christians in isolation but we embrace one another’s struggles as our own.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:40 David Fraley: Hello to all.
 
00:16:52 FrDavid Abernethy: page 180 letter K.  Hypothesis 21
 
00:17:17 FrDavid Abernethy: hi Dave
 
00:17:25 FrDavid Abernethy: where are the snacks??
 
00:19:01 maureencunningham: thank you Ren
 
00:24:58 carolnypaver: What page/section?
 
00:25:09 renwitter: =Page 181
 
00:25:16 carolnypaver: TY
 
00:34:35 Sheila Applegate: I often feel like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill only  to have it come crashing down. Rinse. Repeat.
 
00:35:39 Debra: Same

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part IV

We continued with the incredible counsel of the Fathers about how one discerns when to embrace the advice and counsel of others, specifically one’s Elder. The first distinction made is about advice - counsel that is a part of the spiritual tradition as a whole and so valuable in and of itself. This should be embraced faithfully - for it is given by the goodness and kindness of one’s Elder. When that relationship has grown throughout the course of the years a command may be given by an Elder. This command, however, is only given under specific circumstances; never casually. One must have a kind of clarity and sense of commitment to what is being asked of the Elder. This is to be done by making a prostration, a bodily action and sign of obeisance showing one’s desire to take hold of the command of the Elder. The Elder, then, in an equally concrete fashion must give his blessing. In doing so he takes upon himself the commitment to pray and fast that the one in his care would be able to fulfill the command. We see in all of this the depth of the relationship that must exist between an Elder and the one in his charge. We do not simply expose ourselves to information, reading the writings of the Elders and applying them to our lives. Rather, we enter into a living tradition and it is in and through this relationship between an elder and the one in his care that spiritual growth is made. It is a relationship of love that mirrors the relationship that Christ has with each of us. He calls us to give ourselves to Him and follow Him and in doing so He gives us himself in the most holy Eucharist. The command always holds within it the grace to help us fulfill it. 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:46 FrDavid Abernethy: Anthony Coniaris
 
00:17:55 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginnners Guide to the Philokalia
 
01:09:50 Ren: This reminder that the Elder prays for the one whom he counsels is very helpful. I am not sure there is anything more humbling than being prayed for - or fasted for! Knowing that another is investing themselves so deeply on your behalf definitely spurs one on to greater dedication. The gift demands a response.
 
01:11:26 Ren: Yes. Wow. Imagine that: God himself, in the person of Christ, fasted for each one of us. Spent himself praying for each of us. So very humbling.
 
01:12:09 Carol Nypaver: Absolutely.
 
01:20:09 Ren: Just a little PSA for everyone: we have switched our email service to MailChimp. If you did not receive an email in advance of tonight’s group, please check your spam filter, and mark it as not junk. Thank you!
 
01:21:32 David Fraley: Thanks Fr David!
 
01:21:47 Debra: The short link, tonight, still triggered a 'Threat Warning' from Avast lol
 
01:21:58 Ambrose Little: stop using Avast
 
01:22:20 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 2nd experience with baptism!
 
01:22:28 Eric Williams: Keeping you busy and out of trouble. ;)
 
01:22:54 Debra: You're making me want to switch to the East lol
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part III

What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well.
This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time.
What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;)
 
00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting!
 
00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;)
 
00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever!
 
00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9?  All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them?  Especially when we are previously unmerciful?  Or am I off the mark?
 
00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great.  Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.”
00:31:27 Tyler Woloshyn: It reminds me of the verse and humbly to bear one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2)
 
00:32:09 B K-LEB: St therese said "the spirit blows where it wills"
 
00:32:27 B K-LEB: when asked about why she thinks God chose her..
 
00:38:11 Rachel Pineda: I do not think I am being to harsh here that the asceticism spoken of here is sometimes taken as superstitious but in fact when one treats it as such  it is a lack of faith in God's Providential care of each and every soul. Also, a lack of patience. Well, the Father just said better than I.
 
00:39:05 Anthony: St. Padre Pio ~ If you think I make a mistake, do you think God would?  (different context, but the principle fits.)
 
00:39:48 Rachel Pineda: LOL
 
00:39:58 Rachel Pineda: No the Desert Father but okay
 
00:40:15 Rachel Pineda: I am sure you know better than I
 
00:41:05 Rachel Pineda: What I am speaking about is the radical conversion that takes place. Even to other faithful it can look weird.
 
00:41:41 B K-LEB: I heard a man who had dealt with sexual abuse at the church say that "you don't have to heal to be holy". I am wondering your thoughts about this. Is healing necessarily and intrinsically related to holiness?
 
00:45:14 Rachel Pineda: I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen spoke about that in his talks on confession!
 
00:48:40 B K-LEB: wow thank u
 
00:49:09 Rachel Pineda: Yes, Thank you!
 
00:53:02 Anthony: It seems to me that the grief or pain is often one of the mind or imagination, but the center of the soul is confident in God.  The nagging thought is precisely the fog of thought, and the devil wishes it to descend to the nous - but God Who does not abandon the man allows us to conscously unite out thoughts to the  "crown of thorns" of Christ's crucifixion.
 
00:56:50 Anthony: Fr. Pavel Florovsku, "Iconostasis", opens with a discussion of dreams and time.
 
00:56:57 Anthony: Florovsky
 
00:58:49 Rachel Pineda: WOW!!
 
01:01:02 B K-LEB: Father you should talk more about this topic many are interested
 
01:17:42 Anthony: Father, this isn't just a religious topic. It involves the philosophical discipline of epistemlogy (the search for certain truth) - and we Americans are so impoverished in philosophical language and concepts
 
01:19:38 Eric Williams: Data, data everywhere, and not a thought to think
 
01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: My daughter once asked a co-worker what he thought about a particular topic.  He said, I haven’t thought about that, let me look it up.  😲
 
01:21:26 Anthony: It's a form of intoxication.
 
01:23:01 Debra: Off topic:
Asking for prayers for all those effected by the flooding in southern Montana, and Yellowstone park
Several rivers flooded; roads and bridges gone  Thank you
 
01:24:17 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night. God bless!
 
01:24:37 David Fraley: Good night, everyone!
 
01:24:55 Rachel Pineda: Goodnight!
 
01:25:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone!
 
01:25:15 sue and mark: good night and God Bless
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part II

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 21. One is not to reveal the thoughts of the heart and the mind or one’s temptations to others indiscriminately. Rather, we are to seek out those who have the gift of discernment and experiential knowledge. Only those who are engaged in spiritual warfare, who know their own minds and hearts well can speak to the struggles of others. Much damage can be and has been done by those who set themselves up as teachers of the faith and the spiritual life and yet not living it themselves in any measure. What we are to look for in an elder are the particular gifts of the Spirit that arise from living the gospel fully; humility, repentance, obedience, tenderness gentleness, charity, mercy.  In order for one struggling with their sins and the shame that often accompanies them to find courage to acknowledge them, they need an elder who speaks to them with love; a love that reflects Christ himself. How can we speak of what we do not know? We cannot teach the faith or guide others from a position of power but rather imitate Christ in approaching others in a humble and selfless fashion.
 
Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:07:57 FrDavid Abernethy: Public
 
Prayer of St. John Chrysostom before reading spiritual texts.    
O Lord Jesus Christ, open Thou the eyes of my heart, that I may hear Thy word and understand and do Thy will, for I am a sojourner upon the earth. Hide not Thy commandments from me, but open mine eyes, that I may perceive the wonders of Thy law. Speak unto me the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom. On Thee do I set my hope, O my God, that Thou shalt enlighten my mind and understanding with the light of Thy knowledge, not only to cherish those things which are written, but to do them, that in reading the lives and sayings of the Saints I may not sin, but that such may serve for my restoration, enlightenment and sanctification, for the salvation of my soul, and the inheritance of life everlasting; For Thou art the enlightenment of those who lie in darkness, and from Thee cometh every good deed and every gift. Amen.
 
00:11:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170
 
00:16:56 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be to Jesus Christ! Good evening everyone.
 
00:27:02 David Robles: According to the Philokalia the stages of sin/temptation are
 
00:34:29 Anthony: How do these stages of sin correlate to the Roman distinctions between Imperfections, Venial sins and Mortal Sins?  Or is that too big a topic or a harmful focus on what is evil within us instead of focus on what is good, noble, etc?
 
00:34:41 Wayne: page?
 
00:43:25 Josie: "preach and if you have to, speak"
 
00:56:58 Josie: is there a difference between the evil one hearing the confession of our thoughts in private vs in public? can't he hear them in both cases?
 
00:57:07 Josie: sorry sent by accident
 
00:59:28 Anthony: The protection of the mind is maybe the really important problem with social media - as one mindlessly absorbs, one tunes into so many different minds putting themselves out for consumption; it's more indiscriminate than TV since you can get so many channels one right after the other.
 
01:07:55 Tyler Woloshyn: Some priests are not psychologists nor should pretend to be in the confessional
 
01:08:23 sue and mark: yup
 
01:14:26 Josie: so does a confession with a bad priest still give us grace?
 
01:18:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes, if he's ordained and pronounces absolution. Personal qualities don't impede the sacramental grace.
 
01:28:31 carolnypaver: My question is from section C. What about sharing what we learned in Spiritual direction with one’s spouse, especially concerning children?
 
01:29:17 carolnypaver: Thank you!
 
01:29:28 Josie: 1 sec
 
01:29:31 Josie: typing
 
01:29:46 Josie: in AA they teach you to tell your story
 
01:29:51 Josie: to help others heal
 
01:30:00 Josie: my priest says that's good
 
01:30:03 Josie: yes
 
01:34:12 Josie: thank you father!!!!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part VI and Hypothesis XXI, Part I

We continued in our reading of the Evergetinos hypothesis 20 on the importance of revealing one’s thoughts to an elder. The struggle in the spiritual life entails letting go of embarrassment and shame that often plague us - in order that we might freely acknowledge our sins or the thoughts that lead to them. The revelation of these thoughts must be received by elders with the greatest care and tenderness. It is both the perseverance of the one struggling and the patience of the caregiver, the elder, that brings healing. Over and over again we are presented with stories of those who overcome their fear of shame and in their freedom to acknowledge their sin come to experience freedom from the sin itself. Therefore, the fathers hold up before us humility, truthful living; bringing all that is within the mind and heart into the light of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 number 3
 
00:37:30 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?
 
00:37:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 167
 
00:37:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:42:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Seems like it's less a question of whether this or that father is particularly learned, but that God wants us to seek the guidance of others as an expression of humility and so, through that, will guide us. We may or may not get a "wise" answer, but the actual experience of that humility is in itself instructive and the Spirit will teach us through that.
 
00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: accompaniment 😄
 
01:11:19 Ambrose Little, OP: it says he “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction”
 
01:12:08 Ren: Yea, it does say “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction,” and that he had no “commitment, or agony of soul,” so I think the ways in which the brothers approach the elder are radically different. Not just a difference of physical tears.
 
01:12:33 Ren: Ditto Ambrose
 
01:14:03 Rachel: To me, tears of this sort seems to be a source of scandal for some in the west. Where they are questioned and looked upon as hysterics or a lack of humility, or lack of trust in God;s mercy, and absence of the peace of the Holy Spirit. I don't actually believe there is a problem with the theology of holy repentance in the west, but that it is a misinterpretation of the different manifestations of true repentance in the spiritual life. It is an idea of what repentance must look like. And right now, that seems to be a knee jerk stoic reaction to the nihilist culture we find ourselves surrounded by. The focus by some faithful on keeping it together in a stoic like manner can even encourage and foster an irreverent confession at best because if one is caught crying then, it may be viewed with suspicion.  I do not mean to criticize but only mean to point out the perception I have encountered ( even in myself) that one must have this stoned faced spiritual life coupled with an alloyed joy we pray against.
 
01:15:35 Rachel: It makes me wonder, when one realizes, as God reveals Hiimself, to one;s own capacity, that they are a child of God, one would not be able to help but have copious tears of repentance.
 
01:16:58 Ambrose Little, OP: For a long time I was puzzled by the great saints who would belabor their sinfulness, even with many tears. It sorta came across to me as somehow over the top, maybe too much ("extra” as we say these days). But I think what it is is their greater understanding of the perfect love and goodness of God, the good things God wants to bestow upon us, and how even our lesser imperfections cause us to lose out on the fullness of what God wishes to bless us with.
 
01:18:10 Eric Williams: I suspect that tears of repentance would be regarded as foreign to a sense of "romanitas".
 
01:18:39 Rachel: Well, when in Rome. Sigh
 
01:20:13 Eric Williams: I don't say that approvingly. ;)
 
01:22:21 Rachel: I just want to point out that when one is truly striving, by the grace of God, even and especially tears are brought before the Lord. I mean to say that one doesn't relish in crocodile tears when one truly desires to please God.
 
01:23:12 Ed Havrilla Jr.: The woman who wept at the feet of Jesus, washing his feet, was forgiven and freed of her sin.
 
01:25:01 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!
 
01:25:01 Rachel: Thank you father and everyone.
 
01:25:17 Rachel: Yay!
 
01:25:18 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part V

Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos.  As always it is a privilege and joy to sit at the feet of the Fathers with you.
Synopsis:
We continue our reading this evening of Hypothesis 20 on the revealing of one’s thoughts to an elders. Again and again we are taught by the Fathers that this is the path to true healing for us. It is when we keep our thoughts secret, when we hide them, when we lie about them, that the devil gains a greater foothold in our lives. We are warned that God is not mocked for he sees all things and into the depths of the heart. So we are to never lie. In humility, we are to seek forgiveness and to acknowledge our thoughts, our temptations, any concerns, our desires, or even simple thoughts to our elders. When we do this our heart is also open to the Grace and action of God. The moment that we acknowledge the truth is the moment a flood of Grace comes upon us.  It is then that the demon is cast out. St Paul tells us: "Take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ." It is our good fortune to have the Fathers to show us the path by which we can do this.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:23 FrDavid Abernethy: The Evergetinos
 
00:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Center for Traditional Orthodox Studies
 
00:14:18 Fr. Miron Jr.: yes we are
 
00:14:28 Fr. Miron Jr.: she is tired of me
 
00:14:49 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163
 
00:15:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Letter D
 
00:16:14 Debra: Do we need to re-sign up?
 
00:16:37 Josie: are we allowed to send father questions outside the group?
 
00:16:48 FrDavid Abernethy: yes
 
00:16:49 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
 
00:17:02 Ren: Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
00:17:22 Josie: how do we reach you father? which email?
 
00:17:24 Ren: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
00:17:40 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com
 
00:18:13 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: hahaha
 
00:24:17 Debra: {Not raising my hand...I was shooing my dog away}
 
00:37:33 joannedavids: This is enlightening.  Very helpful.  Thank you, Fr.
 
00:44:31 Josie: were the fathers able to distinguish between evil thoughts that came from the evil one and those that came from their own thoughts and hearts? if so how?
 
00:45:12 Ambrose Little: This was before mass marketing. LOL 😄
 
00:46:54 Josie: thank you
 
00:53:12 Ren: The thought presented in the second to last sentence - that telling (thoughts) is equal to rejecting - is really fascinating. Also interesting to think about when they are what you might consider “good thoughts.” By sharing them with the Abba you are showing a willingness to submit all - the good and the bad - to the wisdom of an elder. To reject all for the sake of humility, of truth, and obedience. Sometimes even thoughts that seem very good might not be good for you at the time, or might not actually be good at all.
 
00:54:35 Josie: it's kiind of beautiful that God made it so that our salvation in interlinked with others in so many ways...
 
01:11:10 joannedavids: “Can’t see the forest for the trees.”
 
01:20:22 Ren: Links for the groups:
 
01:20:24 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
Philokalia.link/climacus_signup
 
01:20:43 Ren: Business email: philokaliaministries@gmail.com
 
01:20:44 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMONMxs61g&t=3467s Fr. Davids Homily 29min
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part IV

Text of chat during the group: 
00:28:07 Josie: Does the first monk who said that he wanted to trust in God in the solitude of the desert demonstrate to us that God won't save someone who is alone or that this isn't the way that we approach the idea of complete trust in God? The context of my question being the mantra that we should trust only and fully in God and only he can help us.
 
00:29:51 Josie: So being completely alone isn't a sort of extra trust in God?
 
00:33:14 Anthony: Even in a non-monastic setting, being alone, outside of accountability to family and community, opens the mind to lots of thoughts or evil suggestions.  And a person can be alone in this sense either literally solitary or in a crowd like a college.  People can be severely tried when solitary in these senses.  There's something in Ecclesiastes that Father quotes, about walking alone, when you fall, who can help?  When you are with others they are even a preventative to falling.
 
00:33:36 Anthony: other people are encouragement to the heart.
 
00:45:18 Josie: is it weird to reveal our thoughts rather than actions and sins in the confessional?
 
00:45:33 Anthony: On a theological or social-theological note, this destructive sense of obedience - as I understand it, comes from Jansenism.  A Catholic Calvinism...and Calvinism focused for some reason on God's election, no place for a free love, it seems to me.
 
00:48:21 Ren: It is so powerful to compare the image of one who commands obedience put forward by Christ - a shepherd whose voice is followed, who carries those who are not strong enough to walk; one who stands in the midst of their followers as one who serves - to what you put forward just now - a hammer who drives others into a exact place by sheer force. Wow. Really amazing to reflect on.
 
00:53:45 Forrest Cavalier: μεγάλε
 
00:56:45 Ren: Satan - the relentless bartender :-D
 
00:57:42 Tyler Woloshyn: Reminds of the classic cartoon villain who keeps getting foiled by the virtuous protagonist.
 
01:04:29 Ren: I love this story so much. One of my favorites in the book so far.
 
01:04:40 Josie: me too
 
01:04:45 Ashley Kaschl: Same. It’s so good.
 
01:06:00 Josie: father does fasting help with the psychological temptations or only physical temptations of the body? hope this q makes sense
 
01:09:40 Tyler Woloshyn: We know that these texts were written in a different technological era.  Fasting seems to become more of a battle today for lay, clergy, and monastic alike given technology.  Temptations and challenges to fasts can be magnified even more now then they were in the age of the Fathers.  The devil does not need to walk down the road here, he can be at the tip of one's fingers with screen time.
 
01:10:37 Josie: someone said on Twitter "the Lord gives the solution then he allows the problem"
 
01:12:11 Josie: he was quoting a Rabbi i think, and was talking about the internet
 
01:12:46 Anthony: I think what matters is what flask you drink from - or don't.  Since 2018, the Catholic news has been consumed with obkective wrongs, which exist, but can become consumptive: 2018-2019: sex scandal. 2019, Pachademon in Vatican. 2020-2022, election , Great Reset and covid.  2022, Ukraine.  The imbalance and fixation is real but can be a poison to imbibe and gets in the way of classic spiritual food and drink.  But maybe we can turn this to our good
 
01:14:26 Anthony: and being one oriented to fixing social problems, this negative world tone affected my spiritual life.
 
01:17:06 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:55 keynote: Thank you Fr.!!
 
01:18:02 Josie: thank you father
 
01:18:07 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:18:15 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night and God bless!
 
01:18:21 Sheila Applegate: Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part III

The wisdom of the Fathers and the essential and fundamental elements of the spiritual life that they present us with is valuable beyond expression. Whether novices in the spiritual life or having struggled for many years, one is given a precious gift in reading the Evergetinos!
Synopsis: 
We picked up once again this evening with Hypothesis 20 on heeding the advice of the elders and the importance of revealing one’s thoughts without embarrassment or shame. How beautiful it is when an elder has such compassion and love (as well as patience) to help those in his charge to set before God all of their thoughts and sins. What a blessing it is when you have one who is willing to wait even years, assisting you in the spiritual life, helping you to trust ever more fully in the power of grace and in the depths of God’s mercy. The Evil One seeks to do nothing but undermine this trust in God and in one’s elder. Even when we are tortured by our sins or our thoughts and temptations we often remain silent; because the evil one convinces us how shameful such thoughts might be. The closer we get to speaking them the more he seeks to make us question the value of doing so. The father’s counsel on this is incredibly valuable. It reveals to us the wisdom of God and how it overcomes the cunning of the Evil One.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:18:25 Josie: When we have thoughts that we don't identify with the “inner self” or “inner man” but rather as false self, are we meant to 1) engage them in order to dismantle them at the root and deal with what part of us causes or wants to believe them, OR alternatively 2) do we simply ignore them/reject them as false and just re-center ourselves?
 
00:21:25 Tyler Woloshyn: This brings to mind the Psalmist when he speaks about in Psalm 136 (LXX) to deal with those sins, passions, vices by dashing them against the rock. To dash them against the Rock of Christ early on rather than much later.
 
00:23:27 Tyler Woloshyn: (I know it is a controversial psalm, but blessed are the monastics for explaining the meaning behind that psalm.)
 
00:34:15 Tyler Woloshyn: This story is very interesting when someone is held by passions, but how can one relate to those to struggle with scrupulosity in their confession?
 
00:45:04 Josie: it's ok you answered thank u
 
00:49:17 iPad (10)maureen: Is it much like Doctor ? You can have a cancer and not Know it.
 
00:49:49 iPad (10)maureen: The earlier one find a hidden illness you can recover.
 
00:52:55 Rachel: I can top that but in my humility will refrain
 
00:56:09 Anthony: These elders - are they experienced, mature Christians, or is Elder in these stories here the equivalent or presbyteros or sacerdotale - a priest?
 
00:57:01 Forrest Cavalier: The greek is Ό Γέρων
 
00:57:13 Forrest Cavalier: The old/wise one.
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Thanks, Forrest
 
00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: That’s Greek to me.
 
00:57:19 Anthony: James
 
00:58:56 Anthony: Liberty University in the early 200's encouraged accountability partners and each dormitory hall had a supposedly mature student to be a spiritual leader
 
00:59:04 Anthony: 2000s
 
01:01:06 Rachel: I bought that book but have not read it!
 
01:01:29 iPad (10)maureen: Name of the book ?
 
01:01:29 Josie: me 2
 
01:01:41 Ren: A question about confession: In a situation where a certain sin has really taken root, and one finds it difficult even to resolve to try and amend one’s behavior,  perhaps even resistant to change, what recourse does one have? The thought comes to my mind that is is sacrilegious to go to confession not hoping or firmly intending to change, but it you can’t go to confession, what can you do? Are you just a lost cause?
 
01:02:49 Debra: Wouldn't going to confession provide the graces to help make that change?
 
01:04:10 Lilly: Orthodox Psychotherapy -author?
 
01:04:36 Anthony: Ren, I think Nietzsche actually has an important thing to say here - exert the will - not to power, but for our good. ;)
 
01:04:51 Sawyer: Confessing that lack of desire to change can sometimes bring great grace in itself.
 
01:07:14 Anthony: Lilly: https://store.ancientfaith.com/orthodox-psychotherapy
 
01:07:29 Lilly: Thank you
 
01:08:50 Forrest Cavalier: Psalm 22
 
01:09:05 Forrest Cavalier: My God why have you abandoned me
 
01:10:30 Anthony: Well FOrrest threw it out in a Cavalier manner. ;^)
 
01:11:10 Josie: seems God is always several steps ahead of us and there is always some level of darkness in the spiritual ;ife i think..
 
01:13:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Glad you became yourself again.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part II

In our reading of the Evergetinos, we picked up with Hypothesis 20 “On Obedience and Listening to the Advice of Elders.”  We are presented with the story of one monk, Iakovos, who was filled with impertinence and sought to place himself above others as a spiritual guide; this despite his lacking the fruit or obedience in his own life. The darkness and the trials of this monk grow deeper and deeper. The more resistant that he is to the guidance of others the more that the spirit of darkness takes hold of him. Then, in his moment of greatest weakness, the Enemy attacks him in such a way that he is overcome with a flood sinful thoughts. Taking matters into his own hands, rather than humbling himself before his Elder or before God, he mutilates himself. It is only the meekness and the compassion of the Elder that aids this monk in his darkness. Saint Savvas was able to apply a healing balm on every occasion of disobedience. Over and over again he applies the necessary remedy and offers intercession on behalf of his spiritual child. 
The vivid imagery in this Hypothesis is meant to draw us into a deeper and more rich understanding of obedience and its importance for the spiritual life. Our willfulness can run so deep that we find ourselves wrapped in delusion. Left to ourselves we are capable of the worst. We can betray ourselves as well as God. May God in His mercy guide us along the path of repentance and give us the grace and healing of obedience.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:55 Mark: Some snow later tonight in MN
 
00:08:33 Lilly: Hello Fr. Blessed to be back! Happy Easter everyone!
 
00:17:31 Tyler Woloshyn: This kind of reminds me of the career centric mentality that Pope Francis have warned clergy against. Clergy trying to obtain monsignor or mitred archpriest status.
 
00:35:44 Anthony: When you take aptitude tests, clergy is considered just another job for people who like to help people. But a religious vocation is different than a career.
 
00:41:14 Forrest Cavalier: He cried out to his neighbors too late.
 
00:42:20 Ren: Is Iakovos’ failure to reveal the thoughts to an elder, and his extreme action, another manifestation of arrogance?
 
00:43:54 Tyler Woloshyn: It seems very relevant as it shows what happens in those instances where people who say need accountability partners if you will do not have the courage to admit their weakness and seek help.
 
00:45:06 Josie: For our own days, is it advisable to admit these kinds of things in the confessional? (Even if sometimes this isn't exactly a confession of a sin but thoughts/temptations)
 
00:45:13 Anthony: Is the finalty of the mutilation the problem?  Other saints ran into thickets to hurt their bodies, and they are saints.
 
00:45:42 Forrest Cavalier: You quoted St. Philip Neri in the past: "In the warfare of the flesh, only cowards gain the victory; that is to say, those who fly."
 
00:46:41 Tyler Woloshyn: "Fly you fools." Gandalf.
 
00:47:28 Debra: Tyler, you are not the only 'nerd' lol
 
00:47:36 Ren: The nerds: Tyler, and everyone who got the joke :-D
 
00:48:48 Tyler Woloshyn: Glad that we are in good company. :)
 
00:50:34 Tyler Woloshyn: Post-Lenten shout out to the Life of St. Mary of Egypt.
 
00:50:38 Anthony: OK, is our goal then to walk about in life with a serene sould, and not be bothered by any temptation of body or mind, not distressing ourselves, but letting it pass?
 
00:54:07 Forrest Cavalier: There is a connection to obedience mentioned in this story: he did not obey the monastic rule against self mutilation.
 
01:05:05 Ren: On the topic of penance, I find that penance, among other things, is valuable in revealing that extent to which a true spirit of repentance as been fostered in the heart. When I embrace my penance and perform it soon after confession I am eager to apply spiritual medicine to my soul. Often, however, I am reluctant to accept penance, anxious about what the priest will give me, and am slow in performing it. Then, it is revealed to me that the spirit of repentance really hasn’t been fostered well in my heart
 
01:06:42 Forrest Cavalier: The consequences in this story were more lenient than the Old Testament law: Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly,e whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my namel that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
 
01:08:38 Tyler Woloshyn: I felt the part where St. Savvas mentioned to Iavokos that if he could not manage a pot of beans he could not manager a monastery. It is simple yet very enlightening.  God gives us so many graces and gifts, yet at times I know where I can do much better and not looking to throw out those pot of beans when frustration over life goals or discernment does not work out immediately.  Humility is a very wonderful thing.  Even the smallest of actions can be teaching moments.
 
01:10:36 Debra: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime
 
01:10:50 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
01:12:42 Ren: Iakovos does seem like a bit of a hopeless case. I wonder if his quick death after this last act of repentance was not an act of mercy on the part of the Lord. Take him out before he can screw up again
 
01:14:24 Tyler Woloshyn: Will never look at a pot of beans in the same way. Will think of St. Savvas from now on.  Especially going through a discernment process.
 
01:14:59 Anthony: I'd like to see us Catholics build on the theme of St. John Damascene, repentence is turning away from unnatural living and towards the life God intended for us.  That is a kind of repentence that I could more easily understand, instead of the "afflict yourself" meaning that is perennially popular among Catholics in different rites.
 
01:16:50 Erick Chastain: "but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection" 1 cor 9:27
 
01:19:35 Ashley Kaschl: It’s kinda long. Sorry 😂 I have thoughts.
 
01:19:38 Ashley Kaschl: Some of these holes Iakovos has dug himself, even to the severity of mutilating himself and being cast out of his community, are reminding me of the reflections of St. Bernard of Clairvaux on the Song of Songs, specifically the kisses prior to “let him kiss me with the kiss of his lips”, which to the angels and Saints seems to be an offensive desire. Like Iakovos wanting for more than he is currently trustworthy of. 
 
It is for this reason that St. Bernard goes into the prior kisses: namely the kiss of the feet of Christ. That Iakovos would have to humble himself under the instruction of Savvas, and return to the feet of Christ to kiss His wounds for the realization of the cost of his sins, and then extend his arm up, that Christ might draw him upwards so that he could eventually kiss his hands, entering into the life of virtue and friendship with Christ, hence the fruit of reparation.
 
01:24:15 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:24:38 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night everyone. God bless!
 

The Evergetinos -Vol I, Hypothesis XX, Part I

This evening we started a new Hypothesis, number 20. The focus is on receiving the advice of the fathers and how important it is not to develop an individualistic approach to the spiritual life. Asceticism can very quickly become something of our own making. Whenever we are guided simply by our own judgment, spiritual practices can very easily lead us into pride. The longer that we are in such a state, the greater the danger of falling into delusion. One who thinks he is above the elders’ or anyone else’s judgment, he who seeks no one else’s counsel, will come to experience the greatest darkness. We are part of the living body of the Church and God has given us that which is most essential for our sanctity. Despite the darkness that we see within the world and sometimes see within the life of the Church, we do not want to lose sight of God‘s Providential care and the guidance of the Spirit. Nor do we want to lose sight of those God has put on our path to help support us and guide us. Such an attitude requires from us an openness to the guidance of the Spirit in our lives. Above all it requires humility. Our path as Christian men and women is distinctly the path of humility, the path of the cross, and so we must never be deluded to the extent that we place our own judgment above others.  In the end such an attitude will eventually lead us to place our judgment above God himself. From such a tragic darkness - we may never emerge.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:16:39 Anthony: Look at the history of Family Radio for a contemporary example.
 
00:18:33 John White: O felix culpa! O happy carbuncle!
 
00:18:52 carolnypaver: 🤣
 
00:22:20 Josie: you said that the reason he fell was because he did not listen to the fathers however we do not have fathers nowadays therefore we also have no one to listen to
 
00:29:11 Ambrose Little: We have have a great treasure trove of saintly writings to learn from and be disciples to—much more so than in the time of the early desert fathers—and to complement Scripture, and we also have our pastors, our bishops, who often provide contemporary guidance on things that are new and/or relevant to our time that may not have been so previously.  We also can have spiritual friends who can encourage us and build us up—many lay institutes, fraternities, and so forth, as well as less formal spiritual friendships.
 
00:29:54 Ren: God bless translators!
 
00:35:11 Ambrose Little: We also have this group! 🙂
 
00:35:32 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
00:35:53 Ren: Yes! And a Father with a very authoritative beard to listen to :-D
 
00:36:48 Carol Nypaver: “Abba David of the Beard”😇
 
00:37:47 Anthony: To modify something attributed to Padre Pio:  "If you think I would make a mistake, do you think God would?"  Go out with a good will, be determined to be pliable to God, try to exert right reason, be cheerful & hopeful; God will take care of you, lead you along, bring you to the right people (for your instruction and for you to help), even if not an "elder."  (And beware Jansenism, the scourge of 'traditional' Catholic spiritual formation, especially among French and Americans.  I like a priest-monk friend's praise of peasant spirituality; for me, it fits.)
 
00:37:56 Ambrose Little: He's amazing. I love all his stuff I've seen (Fr. Cantalamessa).
 
00:41:14 Anthony: yes
 
00:43:12 Josie: Anthony do you mean also not to overthink things?
 
00:43:26 Anthony: that's part of it, Josie
 
00:43:33 Bridget McGinley: As a wound care nurse, I have seen women come in that have sincerely regretted having breast augmentation procedures due to the consequences of complications and you can see and feel the mark of remorse in them for this vanity. This story about the wayward monk resonates with me because I have seen this exact thing that is written. How do we recognize pride of heart when there are so many paths both good and  bad? Like fasting and prayer life, how do we avoid excesses? How do we know (i.e. signs) that we are being balanced and humble in our spiritual life if we don't have that spiritual father to discuss the details of our lives to?
 
00:47:53 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father.
 
00:53:09 Anthony: Historically, Franciscans rescued Catholics in danger of falling into Catharism and Waledensianism.
 
01:01:55 Ambrose Little: It seems like we can lose sight of the Providence of God. We can focus on the lessening of a particular kind of spiritual guidance, or particular traditions and pious practices, or particular ways of celebrating the liturgy. But what is God giving us in place of them? How is God calling us to grow and live in our own day? What faith-filled friends has he put in our lives that we overlook or take for granted, who could help us grow? What might we be missing? Surely God is not leaving us without his gifts and the necessary helps we need to live our lives of faith? Are we insisting that God help us in the way we want rather than the way He wants? I think folks here in this group are taking advantage of one of the great gifts God is giving us today.
 
01:03:59 Rachel: LOL Yep
 
01:07:04 Ren: These stories prove so perfectly, via negativa, the teachings of the last hypothesis on obedience as the sure path to the virtues (that also protects us from pride). I frequently find myself formulating elaborate prayer rules, being very satisfied with them, and then failing miserably. So, the only thing I got out of it was an hour of pride. It seems that taking one’s spiritual life into one’s own hands is always a very dangerous way and that, unless under the instruction of a director, one should keep to the simple way of the church’s teachings, and its guidance concerning prayer. Nothing more. Nothing “creative”. The spiritual benefits will never outweigh the danger of pride. It reminds me of Philip Neri, and his disciple who insisted on keeping vigil and ended up harming himself permanently.
 
01:09:09 Ambrose Little: I personally prefer paleo prayer.
 
01:09:11 Eric Williams: Exodus 90 🙄
 
01:13:02 Rachel: Simple......lol ..oook
 
01:13:09 Anthony: Isn't my river in Syria a while much nicer than the dirty Jordan River?
 
01:13:26 Ambrose Little: Simple but not easy! 😄
 
01:13:57 Anthony: Master, if the prophet asked you to do something great, wouldn't you have done it?  So Naaman bathed in the simple, dirty Jordan and was a changed man
 
01:15:03 Ashley Kaschl: I think this individualism we were talking about can also lead to a touch of willful ignorance of certain areas of the faith within groups of people. I’ve encountered a lot of adults who cannot be roused to investigate potentially fruitful areas of the spiritual life because “it isn’t for them” or they “don’t want to go down that road.” There’s a sentiment of “I pray, I love God, and I’m faithful, and that’s good enough for me.” But I think that is a dangerous place to be in the spiritual life, because I don’t think we should ever be “content” with where we are. Individualistic faith seems to sometimes lead to mediocrity, which could also be a subtle symptom of pride; to cling covetously to the spiritual life we’ve “made” for ourselves.
 
01:17:06 Josie: does anyone know a good online bible study?...
 
01:17:31 Ambrose Little: Fr. Mike's Bible in a Year is great from everyone I know who’s done/doing it.
 
01:17:54 Josie: thank you, but i meant i group like this one..?
 
01:20:15 Ambrose Little: or only pay attention to the bits that agree with what we already think!
 
01:21:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
Forrest Cavalier:
I wanted to share a connection I made to Hypothesis 20. The topic summary for Hypothesis 20 is in the 1783 edition in greek, translated as"That no man should trust in himself for anything, but should listen to the counsel of the fathers in all things, and should confess the secrets of his heart without concealing anything."
But it seems to me that the first few stories are monks cutting themselves off from the goodness of community. And some of it can seem very brutal and harsh, and that is why I am writing.
I was also reading this week St. John Chrysostom Homily 12 on Acts. (Next Sunday the reading from Acts is immediately after the story of Ananias and Sapphira. I wondered about Peter's shadow, and the homily covers both stories in Acts and shows that they are integrally connected.)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210112.htm
I think the ideas in Homily 12 are connected to the stories at the start of Hypothesis 20, and I found this accidentally. We in the modern church do not have too many experiences of people being cast out of community, and maybe we even have frustration that more people are not cast out. But we want it to be medicinal. We want people to be forgiven and reconciled and rejoined into community.
As I read the first parts of Hypothesis 20, my gut reaction is difficulty in seeing the stories as being a good model of community discipline.
But then I happened to read Homily 12, which makes a strong argument that it is not extreme that prideful people are cut off from goodness, and that their wounding of the community is partially healed by casting them out. Homily 12 says that there was a superabundance of grace in the community after Ananias and Sapphira were cut off from the land of the living, and there would have been no benefit to let them live longer than they did. That's harsh! Yet, the superabundance included even Peter's shadow being salvific, which Homily 12 says was a sign greater than what Christ himself performed, a partial fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the greater signs they would perform in his name!
And then when I went searching for "pride" in scripture, I found many other Bible passages with similar harsh consequences for being so prideful. (I found these with my search tool, and selected some of them. I included the Mt 25:21 because of the story about the pot of beans, which I think you probably will not get to read tonight, but maybe.)
Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly, whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment.
Prov 16:2 All one’s ways are pure* in one’s own eyes, but the measurer of motives is the LORD.
Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day.
Prov 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the LORD; be assured that none will go unpunished.
Prov 16:18 Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Mt 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’
1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part III

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 19 on the importance and value of obedience. I think it is safe to say that this is some of the most beautiful writing on the subject - one can only imagine because it arises out of deep experience. 
Obedience is presented to us not as a kind of slavishness or something that leads to the crushing of the personality. Nor is it something that is infantilizing. What we find in the Fathers is just the opposite. Obedience is the prime good that we are to acquire because it casts out pride and it creates humility within the heart. Christ loved obedience because he loved the Father. It is in his incarnation that he was, by providence, obedient to his heavenly Father unto the cross and death. He obeyed the Father in love even though he was in no way inferior in greatness and dignity. 
Obedience and love are intimately tied together. Divine love is vulnerable. And nowhere is this seen more fully than in Christ giving himself over to the Father’s will without question. 
Such obedience also brings us healing and freedom from the danger of falling into delusion. Protected from pride, we never see ourselves and our lives as abstracted from God and his will for us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:33 David Fraley: I always have snacks!
 
00:10:42 Anthony: "City a Desert" on YouTube is how I found him.
 
00:13:54 Debra: I didn't get any email today, regarding the commenting
 
00:24:02 Mark: Sorry… incredibly distracted on my end… what page are we on?
 
00:24:14 Anthony: 146
 
00:24:34 Mark: Thanks
 
00:32:21 Anthony: So this is what fundamentally makes our anthropology different than the Cathars.  They make ascetism a mere act of will.  We realize we have disjointed psychology that must be put aright.  And that is by grace and synergy of the will with grace we reorganize the soul/mind/body.  And this synergy is individual and communal.
 
00:37:56 Mitchell Hunt: I saw that. Very profound. Quote was from Elder Aimilianos
 
00:42:02 Ren: Didn’t one of the Fathers we read even talk about revealing ones thoughts to ones angel? It might have been in the context of the hermits, and I think they were able to see their angel, but I think it is still a lovely thought that could apply.
 
00:54:42 Anthony: I think that is a sentiment shared by Seneca the Stoic.
 
01:06:21 Ren: This paragraph really serves as the proof of the hypothesis: Obedience is most valuable because it defeats pride, and gives birth to humility and love of God - all without the danger of delusion. Amazing. Also helps to explain why the chapter on obedience is the longest chapter in the Ladder. Strange that the only time we really talk about obedience in the life of the church is little kids doing what mom and dad say.
 
01:11:16 Anthony: My discipline is political philosophy. Since the Reformation, and especially the American Revolution, we have a worldview of opposition and "I have the truth, I will separate from you."  This is immature and selfish and even Marxist, looking at life through a framework of parties being in perpetual opposition.  But classical political philosophy has a worldview based on love, friendship, patronage, "the ties that bind."  That is the Classical worldview upon which our Catholic ethics are based.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIX, Part II

Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained. 
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand. 
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that is rooted in the desire to please and serve the other. It is rooted in trust and shaped by self-sacrifice. May we never complicate it so as to make it unrecognizable. Within it is the power to redeem even what seems lost in our families, in our communities, and in life as a whole. It carries within it to seed of divine love that can reshape everything; even that which seems impossible to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:32 Lyle: Looking forward to another evening where someone may decisively, yet lovingly, dismantle erroneous ecclesiology for those of us catechumens.
 
00:19:55 Anthony: I'm guessing it was a fig branch or twig.  That's one way to propagate figs.  In year three, you get figs.
 
00:21:51 Ambrose: 1 John 2:3-5 ‘And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.’
 
00:22:18 Ambrose: John 14:15 ‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments.’
 
00:28:35 Anthony: This has implications for laity in problem parishes and dioceses and clergy under bishops with issues.
 
00:28:52 Anthony: Also had political implications against revolutions.
 
00:42:07 Ren: How does one reclaim the spirit of obedience once it has been lost? Once you have let resentment and even contempt of a particular authority figure to establish itself?
 
00:42:33 Jos: this was my question too but on the level of family/ generations
 
00:44:34 Ambrose: This one got me this morning. From lauds intercessions: Forgive us for failing to see Christ in the poor, the distressed and the troublesome, and for our failure to reverence your Son in their persons.   (particularly the "troublesome" part)
 
00:45:22 Carol Nypaver: Amen, Ambrose.
 
00:45:43 Anthony: We find our identity in the wrong.  Yeah, that's not healthy.
 
00:46:37 Ambrose: and not "sharing" it in social media
 
00:46:59 Jos: sorry I can't unmute
 
00:47:23 Carol Nypaver: Can you type it, Jos?
 
00:48:40 Jos: I wanted to ask about whether when one is born into a culture/ family structure and many generations that is filled with this pattern of resentment, lack of obedience etc, if it is then even possible to really change without enormous amounts of effort.
 
00:49:22 Lyle: Fr. David, I‘ve always appreciated the way you and some other spiritual directors continually point us to the Lord Jesus as our ultimate example whenever we need an example.
 
00:49:41 Jos: in our culture and my generation it is very common and it seems for many of us like outside of a very concerted effort it is nearly impossible to break out of the habitual that's been solidified in the unconscious
 
00:50:09 Anthony: Seeing each others flaws only - it can lead to long term and serious and acute resentments as with antipathy of different Slavic or Balkan peoples - or any of the old rivalries of Europe.
 
00:50:59 Ren: Agreed Lyle! “He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross.”
 
00:52:11 Ren: I have never been willing to be “obedient to death” 🤪
 
00:53:56 Carol Nypaver: There are many kinds of “deaths”—🤪
 
00:54:11 Ren: Yes. Ooof.
 
00:54:28 Carol Nypaver: 😩
 
00:54:36 Ambrose: All things are possible with God! Baby steps. Finding small things to train the will. Prayer. Nothing fast or quick fix.. Lean into grace.
 
00:55:55 Carol Nypaver: It’s a “choice” to obey/respect.
 
00:56:49 Lyle: Christ came into the world, not in His own name, but in the Name of the Father (John 15:20). He voluntarily accepted to fulfill in the most perfect way of the Father.  As an adopted child of God, must not I voluntarily do the same?  After all, God raised our Lord up and exalted Him above everything AND thereby provided eternal life to all mankind.
 
00:57:29 Ren: Amazing how obedience requires the other great virtues: Faith, Hope, Love, Extreme Humility. Maybe that is why the obedient brother is considered the greatest.
 
00:58:28 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
 
01:01:32 Anthony: That's part of the Benedictine charism
 
01:04:38 Forrest Cavalier: Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5 has this phrasing on bending the will: “and nothing is so bitter or so painful to me, as ever to be at variance with you”
 
01:06:29 Anthony: We formed in the American life have a long tradition of self-will going back to the Puritan, Scottich Covenanter and Huguenot traditions such as "Lex Rex" and "Give me Liberty or Give me Deah."
 
01:06:35 Anthony: "Death"
 
01:06:44 Ambrose: Though he was in the form of God,
Jesus did not deem equality with God
something to be grasped at.
 
Rather, he emptied himself
and took the form of a slave,
being born in the likeness of men.
 
He was known to be of human estate,
and it was thus that he humbled himself,
obediently accepting even death,
death on a cross!
(Philippians 2:6ff)
 
01:11:47 Lyle: During the Friday "Stations of the Cross", the Parish I am attending finishes EACH prayer with asking the Lord Jesus to "Do with me as YOU will."
 
01:13:15 Vicki Nichols: That sounds like St. Alphonsus Liguori's Stations of the Cross.
 
01:17:38 maureencunningham: Everyone a Movie called the Man of God about Saint Nektarios Of Aegina in Movie theater very beautiful film a friend said
 
01:22:15 Tyler Woloshyn: I have not found a viewing here in Canada for that movie yet
 
01:24:15 Anthony: Like the tendency to Jansenism or a Jansenist spirit among some American Catholic clergy and religious in past years and some trads now.
 
01:25:17 Lyle: The constant witness of the Eucharist is a very formative tool for anyone - adult or child.
 
01:25:50 Rachel: Thank you!!
 
01:25:51 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David
 
01:25:59 Anne Barbosa: Thank you Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part V and Hypothesis XIX, Part I

Tonight we concluded Hypothesis 18 and began reading Hypothesis 19. Both emphasize the importance of not engaging in the spiritual life in isolation. One does not throw an inexperienced soldier, a novice in warfare, into the midst of a battle, having never used a weapon, and expect him to survive.  Similarly, we are taught that it would be foolhardy for us to think that we could engage in intense spiritual warfare, especially that of a hermit in deep solitude, without first having many years of being formed in a spirit of obedience and the common life. 
One must be teachable in the truest sense of the word; we must be docile to the guidance of others and those who are more experienced. Wisdom teaches us to seek the guidance of those who have experiential knowledge of what it is to struggle with the evil one, to avoid mortal traps. We must become unabashed students of the holy Fathers. We must let the dust of the road, as one from the group noted, and that of the sandals of the elders we follow kick up and cling to us. Simply by drawing close to the Fathers, by studying their writings, we find the surest teaching. In such an age is ours, where freedoms and personal rights are emphasized, it can be very difficult to wrap our minds around the value in the essential need of walking such a path. Yet, as we shall see, it is the only way because it is the path trod Christ himself.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:36:49 Forrest Cavalier: Was it Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5:22-24?
 
00:37:00 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: yes
 
00:37:01 Forrest Cavalier: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm
 
01:13:16 Forrest Cavalier: I think the word in greek βαφή connotes dyeing, not painting.
 
01:14:37 Anthony: Thank you, Forrest
 
01:16:55 Anthony: Forrest, that would make sense for it to connote dyeing, a dipping process; the word looks like it may share the same root as baptizo.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part IV

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 which examines the importance of seeking the guidance of elders; those who have a deep desire for God and have come to know His ways through experience. We can have no conceit of knowledge when it comes to the spiritual life. Natural gifts, talents, and abilities are good in and of themselves but they do not necessarily give us insight into the ways of God or knowledge of divine things. At times we seem to almost have an infinite capacity for self-delusion. The more one progresses along the spiritual path the greater in fact the danger becomes. If we do not guard our hearts, if we do not seek out the counsel of others, we can quickly fall into the pit of self-judgment. The fall then can be great and the damage done terrible. Therefore the Fathers with one voice call us to constantly seek out the wisdom of others, to listen to God at the depths ofour being with a spirit of humility. No matter how wise we become what we understand is infinitesimal in comparison to the wisdom of God and the Spirit that searches the depths of our hearts. In this we can allow ourselves no illusions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: beginning page 139
 
00:25:23 Rachel: lol ?? unfortunately yes
 
00:25:28 Anthony: Or when you leave Mass / Divine Liturgy after profuse incense.
 
00:26:06 Rachel: Okay...I love the incense. Dont mind that one bit.
 
00:42:54 Forrest Cavalier: Instead of criticizing priests and deacons we need to dialog with them. It's a two-way commitment, though.
 
00:57:37 Daniel Allen: The Centurian was a pagan and Jesus said He had found no greater faith than the faith of this centurion in all of Israel. And I believe Scripture even says Jesus “marveled”.
 
00:58:09 Forrest Cavalier: The Greek original in this Evergetinos says "holy men". Discernment is important when we seek advice.
 
01:07:57 Bridget McGinley: The centurian is the man I study the most.... I want that Faith! Can you imagine "marveling" Christ? Thanks Daniel!
 
01:10:43 Forrest Cavalier: 1 Cor 13:2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part III

Tonight we continued our reading of hypothesis 18 which focuses upon the importance of seeking the counsel of those who have an experiential knowledge of the spiritual life. We do not live out our Christian life as individuals. Even the monk living in the greatest solitude understands the radical solidarity that he has with others in the life of the Church. 
The stories that we are presented with here this evening show us that the desire of monks to seek out the counsel of elders; and not only the desire but the necessity of doing so. To try to walk along the spiritual path, to try and engage in the spiritual battle alone is foolhardy. Inevitably, we will fall to one of the passions or we will find ourselves in the grip of the Evil One. 
Humility is key. Our lives have to be radically focused upon the truth and most of all the poverty and the weakness that sin has brought into our lives. We must acknowledge that it is by God alone that we are saved ; and that it is by his grace that we are able to engage in the ascetical life. We must avoid self-styled asceticism that lacks discretion. No matter how wise we might be we must believe that we are in need of learning and counsel.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:55:48 Forrest Cavalier: My summary of this discussion to Anthony's questions: We know by fruits: Wicked self-doubt leads towards despair, quietism (on one side) or self-reliant Pelagianism (on the other.) Proper self-doubt: recognize our poverty, leading to grace, trust, unity to body of Christ.
 
01:00:04 John Clark: Pre V2 you were required to fast after Midnight the night before attending mass and not eat anything if receiving the Holy Host…
 
01:00:47 Carol Nypaver: Yep….not even water.
 
01:08:43 Eric Williams: If disciplines become perfunctory, the Church should inform consciences and instruct the ignorant, not discard the disciplines. 🙁
 
01:09:36 Erick: agreed Eric
 
01:13:15 Erick: some people are trying to revive the ancient lenten fasting practice.... See here for details: https://www.beautysoancient.com/lentpledge/
 
01:14:18 Eric Williams: I hope they revive St Martin’s (Nativity) Fast, too ;)
 
01:14:30 Rachel: Thank you! God bless everyone!
 
01:15:41 David Fraley: Thank you and good night, Father.
 
01:16:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren.
 
01:16:30 Eric Williams: Thanks for the reminder about that, Ren! 🙂
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part II

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and questioning so as to learn about the spiritual life. What we find in the writings and the lives of the desert fathers is a stress on the importance of seeking counsel. One never walks spiritual life in isolation. We should foster a zeal within us to talk about the spiritual life with those who have experiential knowledge that is rooted in many years of striving to live the gospel in its fullness. We are given one example after another of individuals seeking out the counsel of elders, being swept up in the desire for their wisdom, and being willing to travel great distances to learn from them. May God instill within our hearts that same yearning and urgent longing for God and for the truth.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:06:57 Mark: Which version of “The Ladder” are you going to use?
 
00:07:39 Rachel: good to know
 
00:08:18 Eric Williams: I shared some quotes from the Evergetinos with my Saturday morning men's group
 
00:08:37 Anthony: Nice
 
00:12:27 carolnypaver: Page?
 
00:13:12 Fr. Miron Jr.: 135
 
00:16:07 Anthony: They had a visit, it was time to go, and the went outside to leave but kept talking for hours?  Maybe they were Italian. ;)
 
00:17:40 sue and mark: they must have been!
 
00:23:45 Anthony: Does this maybe come as a result of the "frentic energy" which Father David warns against? A kind of energy that just wants to be dissipated but not focused?
 
00:34:22 John Clark: Personally praying the rosary silently keeps me in constant contact with the Lord and Holy Spirit
 
00:46:28 Rachel: It is mostly our own vice
 
00:50:17 Anthony: Heresy of Americanism, too
 
00:51:44 Eric Williams: Catholics have forgotten how to be in the world but not of it.
 
00:53:30 Erick Chastain: Bp athanasius schneider
 
01:00:02 Eric Williams: Is this a stone age tool? ;)
 
01:01:03 Rachel: " Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord.."..
 
01:04:10 Eric Williams: Unfortunately, big books/sets are hard sells these days, even to those who seem engaged in their faith. Attention spans are short, people are busy, and we're conditioned to pay attention to sound bites and memes.
 
01:07:42 Eric Williams: I still have your notes from the Climacus group you led years ago (20?). :)
 
01:10:07 Rachel: WOW!!
 
01:13:01 Erick Chastain: can confirm about cmu
 
01:13:38 Rachel: I feel like that everytime I talk lol
 
01:13:57 Wayne: gotta go
 
01:14:41 Eric Williams: I've always appreciated how succinct and to the point your homilies are. The anxiety was worthwhile!
 
01:16:19 Ambrose Little: Unless you just don’t like apples. 😄
 
01:17:15 Fr. Miron Jr.: and also in slovakia
 
01:17:31 Rachel: haha
 
01:17:53 Lyle: May hungering and thirsting for God drive us to a passionate, relentless pursuit of Him.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVIII, Part I

This evening we began Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and the benefits of questioning them with zeal and desiring to learn from them. In many ways this is an important hypothesis for the modern mind; to understand the need to be docile, that is, teachable. We must learn to be humble in our approach to the mystery of God‘s revelation of himself to us and his son. We will always be in the position of learners. Likewise, we will never be beyond needing instruction in the life of faith from those who have an experiential knowledge of striving to enter by the narrow path. 
In fact, we have the distinct responsibility, the fathers tell us, to either learn with sincerity what we do not know or to teach with clarity whatever we have learned. There is no static position in the life of faith. If we believe so, we fall into a kind of madness that ends with apostasy. Part of our desire for instruction is our desire for God and our yearning for him. We should always be thirsty to understand the ways of the Lord. 
It has been said that a starving man has no sense of taste. We see this in our own generation. The failure to teach the faith and the pass on an understanding of the spiritual life has led to a void so deep that men and women have begun to search far and wide for something to nourish them; despite the fact that they have what is most precious already in their possession. Even if we seem to understand nothing or we see no immediate change within us - as if we ignored the teaching of the elders - we should be confident that the seed they planted will eventually bear fruit. Furthermore, simply being in the presence of those who are holy engraves on the soul the immutable archetype of virtue. Simply being in the presence of one who loves God can instill that same love and devotion within our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:06 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: page 134 Hypothesis XVIII
 
00:24:00 Forrest Cavalier: Mt 13:12 To anyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
 
00:31:44 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta run 👋
 
00:37:01 Erick: that liturgical culture is still there at your local FSSP Latin mass parish
 
00:38:10 Erick: even rogation days don't make sense in the present day liturgical calendar
 
00:38:34 Erick: it did make sense in the 1962 calendar.... we have lost the syntax
 
00:38:53 Carol Nypaver: Or Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest Latin Mass. 😇
 
00:39:07 Erick: indeed carol!
 
00:39:40 Eric Williams: I’m worried that Traditionis Custodes will make it harder for Westerners to rediscover traditions like rogation days or more “rigorous” fasting. (I don’t bring TC up to be controversial. I’m really quite sad for the future of venerable traditions in the West.)
 
00:39:57 Forrest Cavalier: I attend FSSP, Ordinary Form, and Byzantine. No one is safe from new deceits of Satan, at any parish.
 
00:41:05 Erick: it's funny because TC is making it easier to access rogation days etc in the short run. but in the long run agreed.
 
00:41:37 Erick: (because TLM attendance has gone up since TC came out)
 
01:09:57 Rachel: That is the exact thing that stuck with me as well! I went to a Mass many years before my conversion and everyone was kneeling and focused on Our Lord. I had no. idea. what was happening before me. Bit it stuck with me.
 
01:11:46 Forrest Cavalier: She might be Byzantine. They stand for that part of Liturgy!
 
01:13:17 Rachel: lol
 
01:15:33 Ambrose Little: Well, I’m gonna be the odd man out here.. I too have gone to TLM masses for years, and I like it and appreciate it, but… 
 
One doesn’t need rogation days, particular ways of celebrating the mass, or the old calendar to imbue one’s daily life with the Faith. We have a current Church calendar. It is packed with memorials and feasts for saints, Our Lady, and the life of Christ. We have Lent. We have Advent. We have Eastertide. We have Christmastide. We have the Divine Office—you can fill your day with prayer, seven times a day if you wish—and more. The Holy Mass is remarkably available for most of us—even I here in the boonies have two reasonably close daily masses. There are many third orders, institutes, associations, and more (e.g., programs like This Man is You, King’s Men, etc.) that offer ways of more fully practicing the faith with the help of others.
 
If we can’t imbue our lives with the Faith with all these available to us, then the problem isn’t with the Church, it is with us.
 
01:17:01 Vicki Nichols: I agree with you Ambrose
 
01:17:55 Erick: we are human ambrose LOL. The Church should make it easier, not harder
 
01:20:16 Rachel: The Liturgy affects the way you pray and what a person believes and how understands and relates to God and the world around them. It all starts there and ends there, from Communion to Communion.
 
01:20:34 Erick: and the Church, when she takes things away or alters them to be less helpful, actually hurts our process of becoming imbued with the faith. as st Thomas says, we learn through the senses
 
01:22:14 Rachel: Yes!
 
01:22:22 Ambrose Little: Everything I listed is there to help, and more. There are oodles of helps. Many people live vibrant, faith-filled lives happily without missing the older forms/devotions. Have to be careful about projecting personal preferences out as if they are objectively superior.
 
01:23:22 Rachel: Thank you all and Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XVII

Tonight we read Hypothesis 17 on what we build our hope upon in this life. The focus of the hypothesis, on the surface, is avarice and greed; the intensity of this passion and the insatiability of our desire for worldly goods. We are given one story after another revealing to us, however, that the real struggle is found within the heart. There is a kind of tendency within us toward idolatry or better said in the context of our relationship with God adultery. We attach ourselves to the things of this world, we love them and desire them in the fashion that we should only love God. God is the pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field. He who has faith and sees the value of this love should be willing to set aside all to process it. Like St Paul, we should see all as rubbish in comparison to the love of God that we receive in Christ Jesus. We are shown in the stories the subtlety of this kind of avarice even to the point of commodifying spiritual acts and deeds. We can see them as possessions arising out of the self and the desire for self-preservation rather than the love of God. We are warned that this passion can become so rooted within us that it cannot be subjugated. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:23 Mark Kelly: A friend recently commented that Modern culture is now based on addiction.  Addicting us to many perceived needs.
 
00:25:48 Ashley Kaschl: 💯
 
00:26:05 John Breslin: 👍
 
00:37:54 Anthony: "MY PRECIOUS!!!!!"
 
00:38:26 Anthony: I didn't appreciate that LOTR was a commentary on basic vices.
 
00:38:33 Rachel: Me too
 
00:40:45 Mark Kelly: A great point about LOTR.  Most of the “desire” for the ring relies on the imagination of the one who covet’s it.  The power of The Ring is never fully demonstrated.  The lust for the imagined power alone is another to lead the soul to destruction.
 
00:41:50 Anthony: Oh wow, thanks, Mark.
 
00:45:55 Rachel: It reminds me of the Franz Jaggerstatter film
 
00:49:04 Rachel: When one truly seeks silence, internal and external as much as possible while living in the world, it seems to me Our Lord will provide many experiences of having to cling only to Him. There are sufferings in people's lives that can be like the cell or the desert in the midst of community etc.
 
00:56:10 Rachel: That quote made my 18 y.o. laugh out loud and say I love that. Never heard that quote before!
 
00:59:26 Anthony: And our Anglo American law is very much about acquiring wealth and keeping it in the family.  It militates against virtue, and is a "schoolmaster" in vice.
 
01:08:52 John Breslin: Fruit of the poisonous tree…
 
01:10:40 maureencunningham: What is the name of the book she reading?
 
01:12:20 Forrest Cavalier: John
 
01:12:32 Carol Nypaver: Josef Pieper Virtues of the Human Heart
 
01:12:33 Ashley Kaschl: A brief reader on the virtues of the human heart by Josef Pieper
 
01:16:00 Mark Kelly: I love Fr. Lazarus
 
01:16:39 maureencunningham: Thank You
 
01:17:14 Ashley Kaschl: Here’s the prayer of self-offering, too 😁 
 
Receive, Lord, my entire freedom.
Accept the whole of my memory,
my intellect and my will.
Whatever I have or possess,
it was you who gave it to me;
I restore it to you in full,
and I surrender it completely
to the guidance of your will.
Give me only love of you
together with your grace,
and I am rich enough
and ask for nothing more.
 Amen.
 
01:18:03 maureencunningham: Beautiful thank you
 
01:18:25 Anthony: Weight of the heart goes along with the fire burning the gold, too. The philosophical property of earth was heaviness.  The property of fire was lightness.  We can either cooperate with the lightness of God's fire, or God's fire will just conquer the heaviness of earth against our will.
 
01:19:18 maureencunningham: Blessing Thank You
 
01:20:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you!
 
01:20:08 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:20:47 Rachel: Yay!!
 
01:20:54 Natalia Andreu: Thank you!
 
01:20:55 Rachel: Thank you! Perfect timing
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part V and Hypothesis XVI

Tonight in our reading of The Evergetinos we concluded Hypothesis 15 and read the entirety of Hypothesis 16. Both have a similar focus: our natural loves and affections for others or the things of this world are to be set aside for the love of God in the kingdom. We must acknowledge that all things begin and end with God and all things come to us from His hand. Simply put - all is grace and our acknowledgment of this truth should give us a kind of freedom to set aside or worldly attachments be they bad or good. Once again, we are presented with multiple illustrative stories that challenge our sensibilities. We see individuals who heroically struggle to let go of worldly ties, not because they are evil but in order to be able to embrace not just the greater good but that which is eternal. Even that which is good, even our virtues must be perfected by the grace of God. In many different ways we can be willful; we can choose paths, even those that are religious in nature, because they appeal to her sensibilities rather than being clearly something that God demands. We must let go of the illusion that we are the source of life and salvation. It is a particularly modern notion of creating a better world or acting to bring about societal change as the object of the deepest aspiration of a person’s life. All that we read from the lives of the Saints shows that they see things through the lens of God’s revelation of Himself to us in His Son.  Our dignity and destiny as human beings is found in Christ and it is Him that we must seek and devote ourselves to completely. It is only when all things are subordinated to Him that we come to see our lives and others with a kind of clarity.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:09:01 Rachel: Oh darn, Im too late! lol
 
00:11:41 Daniel Allen: Where are we at?
 
00:11:58 Carol Nypaver: 123
 
00:16:59 Anthony: This may be the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhKorITYvDU
 
00:44:03 Rachel: I LOVE that story! Because I am a twin, so I understand very much!
 
00:45:02 Rachel: Wait, weren't they twin brother and sister? I could be wrong...
 
00:45:33 renwitter: Yes :-)
 
00:52:38 Anthony: This story also indicates that the monastics were not completely cut of from their families....St. Ioannikos had to have known of his brother-in-law's rage for him to pray for his brother-in-law.
 
00:54:34 Rachel: :)
 
01:00:07 jack: Their human dignity
 
01:01:30 Rachel: Please share the talk by Kallistos Ware!🙏🏼
 
01:02:10 Anthony: This disfigurement of the image of ChristI think distinguishes our understanding of sin from _Total Depravity_ of the Calvinists.
 
01:03:00 Rachel: WOw, wow, wow! Thank you!!
 
01:03:12 Erick Chastain: that's great!
 
01:05:09 renwitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_of_the_Dead_Christ_in_the_Tomb
 
01:08:15 Erick Chastain: which book by Mectilde de bar are you reading now?
 
01:08:17 Rachel: Oh my goodness. One of my favorite readings.
 
01:08:33 renwitter: Breviary of Fire
 
01:08:42 Erick Chastain: thanks
 
01:09:17 Daniel Allen: What caryll hauls lander book was that quote from?
 
01:10:46 Carol: I think it may be Rocking-Horse Catholic
 
01:12:29 Daniel Allen: Thanks
 
01:13:44 Rachel: I had never heard Fr. Abernathy's interpretation but the one Anthony stated. I don't think they conflict though, as the intention of the heart, the lengths this child was willing to go to in order to live the life of a monk in this community.
 
01:16:35 Rachel: Yes, exactly. This is one special case.
 
01:17:03 Rachel: St. Rose of Lima used to try to make her face ugly.
 
01:17:37 Rachel: Not because she thought the gift of beauty was bad.
 
01:19:06 Rachel: It is jarring because of the reality of disordered passions.
 
01:19:26 Anthony: Sometimes the young saints need correctives: like St Simeon Stylite went too far in his penances.  We need to be sane, not crazy.
 
01:20:23 Erick Chastain: Some are fools for Christ
 
01:21:01 Rachel: Yes, I do not tell my non Catholic family or, even some fellow Catholic these stories of the Saints. Because I think it would cause scandal and be too jarring.
 
01:22:40 Forrest Cavalier: In the story here, if the scandal was temptation, the knowledge of paternity was not enough to protect him in one skete, and he expresses doubts that it will go better when it is not known. He was desperate.
 
01:24:40 Ambrose Little: Doesn’t seem to follow why they’d focus on the paternity, if it were just youthful attractiveness? Maybe nepotism? Maybe they had a rule against father-son in same monastery?
 
01:25:41 renwitter: I agree. It seems to me that the scandal really was the Paternity
 
01:26:36 Anthony: I usually thought of nepotism in Middle Ages. It didn't occur to me to read it here.  It could fit.
 
01:26:48 renwitter: Why else would the problem the son presents be that everyone knows they are Father and Son, and they will know it at the next place to? I thought he disfigured himself so that no one would see the resemblance.
 
01:29:00 Ambrose Little: I always look at the particularly self-disciplining saints as a kind of object lesson—they are showing just how far we are from where we ought to be. The saintliness came first; they were called to these penances, presumably, for a reason, if their wills were unified with God’s, as is the idea for sanctification.
 
01:29:57 sue and mark: while I do not know much, I have always heard that holiness is always beautifully balanced.
 
01:30:51 Rachel: Thank you, God bless!
 
01:31:10 David Fraley: This was great! Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part IV

Thank you once again to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos. Your deep reading of the text always inspires me and fills me with a greater thirst and desire for Christ and a more radical embrace of the Gospel.
Synopsis:
We continued our reading of Hypothesis 15, reflecting upon the kind of exile that the monks embraced; an exile that was not rooted in a hatred of the world but rather in an absolute response to Christ’s call “follow me”.  In this the monks become living icons of the gospel and of Christ who said that his food was to do the will of the heavenly Father. 
Over and over again in the stories we are taken into a deeper view of the nature of love. Our love as human beings must be perfected by the grace of God and directed by His providence for it to be a bear fruit that is worthy of the kingdom and that will endure. In this sense we must be guided by prudence; not simply responding to our first emotional reaction to certain circumstances nor allowing ourselves to be drawn into things that might stir the remembrance of things that can lead us away from God’s Providential will into self-will. We are, in our lives, to be guided by the Spirit of God and to put on the mind of Christ. 
This is the focal point of our lives; not being catalysts for social change in the world but rather allowing the grace of God to be the catalyst of change within our hearts. We are to be guided by the virtues that have God as their object - faith, hope, and love. These alone draw us to God’s desired end which is life in Him and Love eternal.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:07:55 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Sorry Dave Fraley.  No snacks
 
00:08:27 D Fraley: Oh. It was good to see you anyway. Good night!
 
00:08:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: haha
 
00:24:07 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:24:17 Ashley Kaschl: 121
 
00:24:26 Carol Nypaver: TY
 
00:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: No prob
 
00:30:19 Rachel: What? Willfull in our acts of charity?? 🙏🏼🙇🏼‍♀️
 
00:32:11 Mark Kelly: Another desert story about being “on fire.”                  
Abba Lot went to see abba Joseph and he said to him, "Abba, as far as I can, I 
say my  little office, I fast a  little, I pray  and meditate, I live in peace 
and as  far as I can I  purify my thoughts. What else  can I do?" Then the old 
man stood up and streched his hands toward heaven; his fingers became like ten 
lamps of  fire and he said to  him, "If you will, you  can become  all flame."
 
00:33:29 Ambrose Little: Maybe Joseph did crack Jesus upside the head for that, so that’s why He went ahead and performed a miracle.
 
00:53:32 Rachel: Yes, The asceticism of the thoughts, taking every thought captive, can seem to make one feel as if they are doing violence to themselves. In a way, they are, to their old self. But, I heard a priest once say no to do violence to oneself. The only way I reconciled this seeming contradiction of my experience and Father's advice, is to go and stay with Christ. The priests cannot heal what has been broken, only Christ can so it forces one to stay, with Christ and be patient to let Christ heal, the heart in His way, in His time.
 
00:54:15 Rachel: Ugh, this was meant for Father Abernathy.
 
01:17:08 Forrest Cavalier: It has to be both/and, not either/or. Christianity meets the world in its present.
 
01:17:24 Rachel: Yes, very happy note! lol
 
01:18:19 Eric Williams: Gee, are you saying the Church shouldn’t enthusiastically deploy reliable catalysts for change? ;)
 
01:19:12 Rachel: Yes Ren!! Thank you!!
 
01:19:31 Ambrose Little: We gotta also avoid substituting seeking exceptionalism for authentic discipleship.
 
01:19:33 Forrest Cavalier: Can we say "apostles" instead of "reliable catalysts for change"?
 
01:20:00 Eric Williams: I got that whole phrase from a corporate buzzword generator ;)
 
01:20:23 Forrest Cavalier: Oh, good. I thought it came from a synodality document!
 
01:20:37 Forrest Cavalier: A little of both, Father.
 
01:21:58 Forrest Cavalier: Amen!
 
01:23:41 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
 
01:23:47 Rachel: Thank you God bless!
 
01:23:49 Mitchell Hunt: thank you
 
01:23:50 D Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part III

Picking up once again with Hypothesis 15, we find ourselves considering the nature of detachment from the things of the world; a detachment that is rooted first and foremost in our response to the love that God has shown and given us and his only begotten son. What does our embrace of this divine love means for our lives in this world?  To take hold of this godly love what is there of the self and our attachment to the things of this world that we must be let go? 
So often there are subtle ways that we will cling to natural sensibilities and loves and we view our lives through that lens alone. Yet the Incarnation and the Paschal Mystery is meant to radically reshape our view of what it is to be a human being both in relationship to God and to one another. Our dignity and destiny is caught up in what has been given to us through our baptism - a share in the divine life. It is the faith and hope that this reality evokes that must guide our lives and the decisions that we make. 
Inevitably the stories that we read from the fathers of the desert jar our sensibilities, especially when they are very much tied to a worldly perspective. In many ways we must allow ourselves to experience the discomfort of having our perspective on life challenged so radically. God has turned our world upside down in revealing Himself to us. It is that revelation that must shape all we do and our understanding of life. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:52 Randi Altman: 🙏
 
00:11:33 Vicki Nichols: the video is really good. Jerzy Popieluzsko is a very inspiring person
 
00:38:38 Anthony: I've studied Socialism (philosophically and politically) for years.  Socialism is the tyranny that comes from bringing men's vision of "god" and men onto the earth - and you will like it, so to speak.
 
00:44:06 Anthony: Like St. Paul: 'I begged God three times to take away this thorn of the flesh, but 'My grace is sufficient for thee.''
 
00:51:03 Ambrose Little: Christ got told “no” by God, when he asked that “this cup might pass from me.” He needed to live in solidarity with we humans.
 
00:53:24 Randi Altman: It’s not responsiblity. It is an incredibly beautiful grace!!!
 
00:58:33 Ambrose Little: You were reading the Bible, largely. ;)
 
01:07:34 Randi Altman: He wanted or expected more of his son
 
01:18:45 Randi Altman: Be thankful to have hairs!🤣
 
01:19:14 Daniel Allen: Perfect closing insight.
 
01:19:55 Michael Winn: Thank you, Father! (my first time here - Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest in Winnipeg)
 
01:19:57 Randi Altman: Thank you for having me
 
01:20:19 maureencunningham: When. Saint John
 
01:20:23 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David
 
01:20:33 D Fraley: Good night!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part II

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 15. The focus has been on detachment from the things of this world and the state of exile in which the monks lived. The temptation after leaving all for God is always to be drawn back to the things of the world. These things that draw us are not  necessarily evil or sinful but can be quite benign or even very good. Yet even that which is good can be contrary to the will of God. Our responsibility is to embrace His will and to walk the path of salvation that He has set before us and to remain ever faithful to it. Even the love and affection for other that is genuinely good can be something that we make our god. Yet there is one thing necessary - Christ and doing His will. He is the origin and fulfillment of every person’s deepest yearning. He alone can fulfill that longing for love deep within our hearts. We will rationalize or we will follow the subtle deceptions of the Evil One to take any or every path that leads away from God. Therefore we must be ever vigilant and unceasing in our prayer. Ego will always move to the forefront. We will place the self at the center of the universe and convince ourselves that what intellect, reason, or emotion tells us is truth. Thus we must be discriminating of what goes on within and foster a kind of stability that allows us to listen to God and subordinate all things to him. This is true whether one lives in the desert or in the heart of the busiest city.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:44 Rachel: ….cricket....
 
00:09:43 Rachel: My paint wont dry here in Cali
 
00:11:45 Rachel: I will be arriving fashionably late to a party because there is no way I am missing the Evergetinos. 😊 lol
 
00:20:13 Anthony: This creeping back of the world into the consciousness....these fresh attacks of vanity and despicable things....is this why they are always weeping for their sins
 
00:27:05 Anthony: This is like iconography.  Icon don't depict mundane persons but persons purified by Divine Love.
 
00:46:25 Anthony: phone > Greek for sound > the siren's call to Ulysses to detract him from his mission and shipwreck the crew?
 
01:08:56 Eric Williams: Biritual! ;)
 
01:10:26 Mark J. Kelly: Sometimes, when rejected, Christ does say, “Go to another city”.  Wisdom and application are important.  “Stay in your Cell” is not a fixed command but a wisdom Verba.
 
01:15:43 Forrest Cavalier: Or cell phone telling us!
 
01:24:10 Randi: I don’t know how to turn on the mic🙁
 
01:27:39 Forrest Cavalier: Randi, Can you press Alt+A? That unmutes on windows zoom.
 
01:31:17 Rachel: Please pray for us!
 
01:32:41 carolnypaver: Wow! Glad you found your unmute button, Randi!
 
01:33:01 Mark J. Kelly: Thank you Randi
 
01:34:57 Randi: I’ve written all your names on the chapel wall
 
01:35:18 carolnypaver: Thank you very much!
 
01:36:13 Daniel Allen: Thank you Randi
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XV, Part I

Tonight we began Hypothesis 15 in The Evergetinos. I think it is safe to say that on the surface it is perhaps one of the most difficult to listen to so deeply is it tied to the monastic commitment and detachment from the world. The fathers speak to us about the abandonment of the world and not communicating even with one’s relatives. 
However, upon closer reading we see that this Hypothesis is about much more than than this. The exile the fathers speak of really has to do with what goes on deep within the heart; our willingness to detach ourselves from our own ego and from the things of this world in order to respond fully to God‘s will in our life. In subtle ways we rationalize and we place impediments to our responding fully to God’s call to love. One does not have to be a monk or live in the desert to see this go on within the human heart. If we could see all the moments that we let pass in a given day to refer back all that we do to God and seek always to act in obedience to his will we would weep inconsolably. What the fathers invite us to consider is whether or not we are living for the kingdom or the world; do we seek to do the will of God or to obey our own will. 
Christ’s embrace of our humanity elevates our dignity as human beings and what we are capable of doing by the grace of God. We should be willing to sacrifice all to protect that dignity. God has made us one with Him in His Son. Let us rejoice!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:02:27 Eric Williams: Fr Miron, thank you for raising a good son. I very much appreciate having him as my parish priest. 🙂
 
00:04:32 Miron Kerul Kmec: thank you
 
00:27:25 Anthony: This is really hard.  Since the Enlightenment, the general tendency of intellectual development and education is to "institutionalize" our wills; spiritual/intellectual/material/career avarice has become ingrained in our consciousness as a virtue.
 
00:39:12 Rachel: God is the one Who is capable! 🙏🏼
 
00:41:04 Rachel: I totally understand what George is saying, it can seem close to impossible at times when perspective gets skewed out in the world.
 
01:05:15 Lyle: Page 118:  Lord Jesus, may I avoid worldly contacts that are “unprofitable”.
 
01:12:56 George: the poetry of St John Henry Newman is fantastic
 
01:13:30 Rachel: your blessing!
 
01:14:14 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!!!
 
01:14:17 Rachel: Thank you!!
 
01:14:40 Rachel: I got mine today!! So happy, what a blessing. Thank you!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part VI and Hypothesis XIV, Part I

We began this evening by discussing solitude and silence as a means to coming to the truth. One does not have to leave the world or live in the desert to experience this. The true desert exists within the heart and so the experience of the solitude more often than not means stilling the heart and avoiding the noise of the world to such an extent that we can listen to God. Outside of doing this we have a truncated experience of life itself and we become the deaf to the voice of love and truth.  If God has created us for himself then above all we should want to hear him and to hear his words of love and mercy.  The Fathers’ counsel in this regard is very simple; withdrawing to a remote place begins for most of us simply by closing our mouths; by not adding to the noise of the world but rather allowing ourselves to be drawn into the quiet harbor that prayer offers to us. 
In Hypothesis 14 the Fathers seek to show us the link between humility and the fear of God. Each complements the other and feeds the other in such a way that they illuminate the heart. Our experience of the otherness and the holiness of God shows us the path to truth. Our acknowledgement of the fact that we will one day come face-to-face with God leads us to face reality now in the present.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:08:44 Rachel Pineda: Hi Father and everyone!
 
00:09:15 Gabby: Hello Father and everyone. From Australia
 
00:09:33 Edward Kleinguetl: G-day
 
00:10:18 Ashley Kaschl: Hey, Rachel! 😁 and welcome, Gabby! 👋
 
00:13:04 Rachel Pineda: Well, this is really timely. 😬
 
00:17:48 Rachel Pineda: Oh that is such good news!!
 
00:19:11 Edward Kleinguetl: Abba Isidore
 
00:45:49 Anthony: To "second" Rachel, the nothingness of the Calvinist/Lutheran is different than the nothingness of the Catholic/Orthodox
 
00:52:40 Anthony: And the Master is eminently lovable/adorable, so fear distorts perception of the Master, and fear is a liar about the Master
 
00:54:02 Rachel Pineda: I just have to add that the Father I mentioned is a wonderful self sacrificing priest who regularly preaches on the love and mercy of God. I was only speaking of staying in the negative thoughts alone.
 
01:07:35 Erick Chastain: Luther was not led to what he did by medieval asceticism in the augustinians. Look at how Thomas a Kempis and the other Devotio Moderna people remained in the Augustinian order and flourished. Indeed, Luther had many problems and fetishes, the chief among them being a truly diabolical pride.
 
01:16:29 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father! Thank you everyone!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part V

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 13 -  considering once again living a remote life; removing oneself from the things of this world and anything that could arouse the passions. So often we find ourselves walking along the edge of a pit, giving no attention to the nature of our thoughts and where they are leading us. It is only by developing that awareness and drawing closer to God through stillness and simplicity of thought that we become further removed from danger. 
Once again we are given stories of those who choose different paths in their lives. What comes through clearly in these stories is that all that is done without clarity about what is within one’s own heart and one’s need for God, all that is done outside of the grace of God is fruitless. We are impotent to change the world much less to change ourselves outside of this relationship. We are all called to enter into the desert.  We are all called to allow the stormy waters to be stilled by Christ in order that we might see not only the truth about our sin but also see the depths of God’s love and mercy. All is Grace and in this alone do we find true comfort and peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:20:27 carolnypaver: Page??
 
00:20:39 carolnypaver: Thank you!
 
00:22:13 Daniel Allen: What page are we on.
 
00:22:21 carolnypaver: 112
 
00:22:29 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:32:09 Anthony: In the Rule of St. Basil, Basil seems to say "we monks have chosen the easier path to single mindedness, but except to marriage, all of us are called to the same standard of going out of the world"  And he specifically names going out from apostates.
 
00:39:39 Lyle: What a blessing to hear that.
 
00:39:49 Anthony: Is sitting before an icon truly like or equivalent to sitting before the Blessed Sacrament?
 
00:53:02 Justin Massengill : If everyone wouldn't mind, there is a young girl in my neighborhood who was just diagnosed with leukemia. In your charity please pray for her and her family. Her name is Ila. 
 
00:54:08 Lyle: Will add her to my prayer list.  Thanks for sharing.
 
01:05:21 Justin Massengill : Do the Eastern Fathers and later Byzantine writers ever touch on the phenomena of scrupulosity?
 
01:11:30 Rachel Pineda: I think Bishop Sheen talks about how one can become very holy, even and perhaps especially, in occupations like a janitor.
 
01:21:10 Rachel Pineda: Wow!! St. John Climacus, pray for us!
 
01:23:13 Daniel Allen: “You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.”
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part IV

Tonight we continued our discussion of hypothesis 13. The fundamental focus is a turning away from the things of this world; not because they are evil in and of themselves but rather because of our capacity to make them ends in themselves. We can be seduced, as it were, by our own desires or by the evil one into seeking our identity in the things of this world. This can be obvious or ever so subtle, but it has the same effect; we get caught up in what is false and delusional. 
To combat this we must avoid certain comforts and avoid the softness to which we tend. The habits that we fall into are only overcome by asceticism - by striving to exercise our faith in such away that it orders our desires and keeps us away from diversions. Asceticism is not simply about self-restraint. It is about removing every impediment to loving God and giving ourselves in love. Thus, Christ himself becomes the standard for us - from his struggle in the desert with the devil to his embrace of the Cross on Mount Calvary. 
We must cling to our identity in Christ. We must set aside the false self and live for God who alone satisfies the deepest desires of the human heart.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:01:34 D Fraley: Hello everyone.
 
00:01:49 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Navy Dave!
 
00:17:15 Lilly (Canada): What page are we on?
 
00:17:38 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 110
 
00:27:46 Anthony: How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
 
00:29:39 Justin Massengill : Iv'e heard St Francis described as a western fool-for-Christ.
 
00:36:26 Anthony: Then it seems to me that a mortal sin happens when the will is fully drawn after errant senses.
 
00:45:24 Anthony: False truth, false goodness, false beauty
 
00:46:41 Anthony: Erick, E. Michael Jones has a decent overview of how modern science was partly driven by the drive to pursue magic
 
01:04:43 Eric Williams: Some monasteries sell coffee beans. ;)
 
01:05:05 Erick Chastain: Mount athos offers coffee to guests
 
01:05:28 Eric Williams: There is no field! 😛
 
01:06:05 Justin Massengill : I heard they don't bathe on Mt Athos 
 
01:13:27 Rachel: Yay! St Gregory!
 
01:14:21 D Fraley: Thank you Father!
 
01:14:31 Rachel: Thanks everyone. Good questions and comments!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part III

Tonight‘s discussion drew the group into what was more and  more beautiful. Hypothesis 13 is focused upon remoteness; but not simply a physical remoteness - the removing of ourselves from our external realities and circumstances. Rather, it is removing ourselves from our attachment to the things of this world. The Scriptures tell us that he who loves the world is at enmity  with God. As we strive to draw close to God we are led to let go of our attachment not only to the things of this world but to the internal identity that has often been shaped by them. More and more we are to put on the mind of Christ and this means not only dying to sin but to self. Throughout the course of our life we often fashion a false identity. We succumb to the illusion, even in the most subtle of ways, that our lives can be understood outside of the context of our relationship with God as our Creator and Redeemer. The more that we embrace that illusion the more isolated we become from God and one another. We lose a true sense of who we are and our inherent value.  However, God does not abandon us in the state of spiritual sadness but rather enters into it and by His grace draws us to Himself in the most beautiful way. He reveals Himself in our deepest weakness and vulnerability and it is there that we see the depths of His love. Suddenly all that is dark and ugly, all that seems most empty within our hearts, becomes filled with His light and the hope that He alone offers.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:04:53 Rachel Pineda: Hello to the group...cant hear anything as I put it on mute because my Mom showed up for a bit. God bless to all.
 
00:09:19 Rachel Pineda: Some of my kids want to say hello to the group...we have been listening to the podcasts in the car
 
00:09:50 D Fraley: I was told there would be snacks.
 
00:10:13 Rachel Pineda: lol
 
00:10:58 D Fraley: I have stale pretzels but not enough for everyone.
 
00:11:11 Rachel Pineda: Prayers!
 
00:18:19 Anthony: Dante: I found myself in the midday of my life, alone in the dark woods....
 
00:19:22 Ashley Kaschl: Would this demon of sadness be the noonday devil (Acedia)?
 
00:20:42 Anthony: Ashley, acedia the closest I can think of to this "feeling," but it sounds a bit different?
 
00:23:58 Mark J. Kelly: Yes. Acedie is the Noon Day Demon
 
00:28:17 Anthony: huh.  And on the natural level, don't drink when you are sad.
 
00:33:23 Mark J. Kelly: Excellent book on Acedia or Spiritual Depression: The Noonday Devil: Acedia, the Unnamed Evil of Our Times. https://www.amazon.com/Noonday-Devil-Acedia-Unnamed-Times/dp/158617939X/
 
00:43:40 Anthony: If we had Dom Lorenzo Scupoli's attitude, that God is a fire (of love?) and we submit our own fires of atraction and of sin to that fire "of" God, to be taken over by God, we can pass through and from this life more easily.
 
00:55:23 Ashley Kaschl: Reminds me of a quote by Michael D O’Brien "...This silence before God and man is the presence of being. Such silence speaks! Then when one's spoken words flow, they come from the true heart of one's unique identity. An identity that only the Father in Heaven knows, for it is hidden even from our own eyes." (Island of the World)
 
00:59:44 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Great books written by JPII about that topic “Man and Woman He Created Them” and “Love and Responsibility” :)
 
01:01:05 Carol Nypaver: Both are excellent books, Lilly!
 
01:10:50 Justin Massengill : Gotta go early, see you all on Wednesday, God bless!
 
01:15:06 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Great question @Rachel and excellent response @Fr David !!
 
01:21:04 Wayne Mackenzie: gota go
 
01:24:48 Carol Nypaver: Blessings to you, Father.
 
01:25:43 Rachel: The group and readings are a blessing. Thank you. Prayers!
 
01:25:46 D Fraley: Thank you, Father David!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part II

Amazing group tonight folks. Thank you all for your comments and questions. Wonderful as always!
Synopsis:
We continued our reading of Hypothesis 13 which puts before us the idea of moving to a remote place, of embracing exile - as it were - for the sake of living for Christ alone. The lives of the desert Fathers call us to let go of our attachment to the things of this world and all that gives us a false sense of security and stability. We are to cling to God alone. We are strangers and exiles in this world and we will be hated by it as Christ himself was hated. 
None of this calls to imitate the Fathers by going to the deserts of Egypt but rather to enter into the desert of the human heart. We are to draw back and retreat to Christ in order that we might more clearly see the depths of his love and his promise of life; as well as see the things that are an impediment to it. In our retreat into silence and prayer, and subordinating all things to our relationship with God, we prepare ourselves to fight against the enemies, the demons, until we are made free and reach the rest of the kingdom.  
Such a life is not rooted in hard work. We seek our identity not even in the performance of religious activities or driving ourselves relentlessly in the ascetical life. Rather, our worth and identity come to us from what God gives us. All is grace and it is only when we let go of the illusion that this world can provide for and fill the void within our hearts that we will come to know that love in its fullness.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:18:00 Anthony: Clinging to God alone, nothing is secure....well, 2020 ans 2021 have offered us opportunity to ease into that kind of virtue.
 
00:23:28 Anthony: From historian Charles Coulombe I learned that our valuing of excessive work is a Puritan deformity.
 
00:33:56 Joseph Muir: Of course there is value in being diligent and having a good work ethic, of being responsible and goal oriented, and of planning for the future. With that said, this tendency of finding one’s identity in their work is, I think, where one veers off course
 
01:08:49 Justin Massengill : No, Justin is my Christian name which I tend to use since my conversion. 
 
01:14:37 Ambrose Little: It’s hard to put much value in “hard work” without ending up serving it and having it become a significant measure against which we judge ourselves. We cannot serve both God and mammon. Where our treasure is, there is our heart. It seems so very easy to get sucked in, ever so incrementally so that we don’t even realize it’s happening, until one day what started as a tame regard for our how hard we work has become our identity and our master.  If on the other hand, we prize above all else pleasing and loving God and making that our only goal, we can guard against that danger. 
 
At some point in our lives, this may mean working hard. At another, perhaps when we are sick, it may mean simply offering our suffering to God and offering the simplest of prayers. In health, in sickness, in work, in play—all in God and to God and for God, with gratitude and trust.
 
01:16:51 Lyle: Like St. Peter, I must "Step Out".
 
01:18:28 Anthony: Working in the garage late at night can be crazy - irrational with a job to wake up to - but also be a "mystical" moment.
 
01:22:51 Lyle: They are such great counselors!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XIII, Part I

Thank you once again to all who attended The Evergetinos group tonight. The wisdom of the Fathers is breathtaking to say the least!
Tonight we began Hypothesis 13. The focus is on renouncing the world to go to a remote place, what constitutes a remote place, and the specific benefits that we are seeking. 
We are all too familiar in this world with isolation. We may be surrounded by many people and our lives filled with so many different things and activities and yet we can feel completely alone and empty. 
The Desert Fathers, however, seek the solitude of the desert not to escape the world but rather to seek out Love itself. Their setting aside of country, of material goods, creates within them a need - a need that only God can fulfill. They experience what true desire is - a sense of incompleteness that only God can address. 
Solitude and silence are disciplines that we must foster. They are not something simply to be endured and they are not rooted in a contempt for the world. In the silence and in our poverty we begin to experience the development of true humility; a humility that allows us to see the truth about ourselves and the goodness, the mercy, and love of God. 
Thus, gradually we come to see through them that the experience of exile, poverty and solitude hold within themselves a priceless treasure that we must be willing to do everything to possess.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 D Fraley: I had hair when I first come to the Oratory too.
 
00:08:48 Ed Kleinguetl: Must be a trend
 
00:33:45 Eric Williams: Certainly no (or limited and hushed) chit-chat in my childhood Lutheran church nave.
 
00:34:43 renwitter: What is the name of the place Mark?
 
00:36:00 mark: I will send a link…
 
00:36:13 Ed Kleinguetl: Thank you!
 
00:36:54 maureencunningham: Holy Presence Monastery inToms Brook  and The Holy Abbey in Berryville VA.  silent retreats
 
00:37:03 maureencunningham: Both VA
 
00:37:15 Eric Williams: I have noticed a paradox as someone with ADHD. Long periods of silence and stillness are very difficult for me, but the cure seems to be more silence. It’s very challenging. Modern technology seems to be making most people struggle with quiet inactivity in a similar way.
 
00:37:51 mark: Our Lady in Beatitude.  The Monastic Family of Bethlehem.  https://www.monasteryofbethlehemnewyork.com/
 
00:40:25 Eric Williams: As a convert, I really don’t miss marathon sermons. ;)
 
00:42:03 Ambrose Little: Agree, Eric.
 
00:45:37 Wayne Mackenzie: what page?
 
00:45:50 Tyler Woloshyn: 106
 
00:46:37 Eric Williams: I’ve noticed that at low Latin masses, the processions are from and to the sacristy. I’ve also seen high masses in which the opening procession starts at the sacristy, continues to the back, and finishes going up the middle aisle. Perhaps that would be a good corrective model for the whole Western Church.
 
00:49:40 Ambrose Little: Cultivating interior silence in the midst of external noise and busy-ness is a good ascetic practice. Maybe we focus there, even if others around us aren’t doing the same.
 
01:18:07 Ambrose Little: Sorry. I gotta run. I will say having six boys helps one find quietude in noise. :D Have a blessed week, y'all.
 
01:18:14 Wayne Mackenzie: got to go
 
01:18:39 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a good night. God bless! :)
 
01:23:25 D Fraley: Thank you Father David. Good night, everyone!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XII, Part IV

Tonight we concluded Hypothesis 12, again considering the importance of parents raising their children not only to love virtue but also to be willing to sacrifice all for it and for Christ. We considered three stories where mothers had to set aside their natural sensibilities and desire to protect their children from harm. In each case, the mothers act out of their faith to encourage their sons to remain steadfast. We see in and through the stories that they are not only bound by blood but, in a deeper way, by faith. The mothers seek to protect the eternal life of their sons and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their own needs for that end. In doing so they become inheritors of the glory that belongs to the martyrs. Their sons will intercede on their behalf because of the virtue and support that they showed. 
These are not easy stories to consider and one is compelled to set aside one’s judgment and to listen to them with faith. We are to see these martyrs and those who support them as living icons of the gospel. In this they will be the most compelling witnesses - those who counted all in this world as refuse compared to the surpassing worth of knowing and gaining Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:30:55 Eric Williams: “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” - GK Chesterton
 
00:39:05 Anthony: I am friends with several Copts in Hampton VA.  Beautiful people, understand suffering.  Same with my Iraqi Syriac Catholic friends.
 
00:42:30 Anthony: Sometimes I wonder what is the dividing line between rigorous ascetic practice ans insanity.  Is love the difference?
 
00:54:33 Ambrose Little: Discernment of the will of God. Union of the will with God, so that the actions flow out of that union. So yes, love in that sense, in that God is love and union with His will is union with Love. There is some danger, it seems, in that persons may seek out the actions for themselves, as a kind of emulation of holiness, when what makes such acts holy is the heart in tune with God’s.
 
00:55:22 Anthony: Thank you, Ambrose
 
01:12:45 Carol Nypaver: What is that song called?
 
01:12:54 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: billy joel lullabye
 
01:13:06 Carol Nypaver: Thank you!
 
01:13:12 renwitter: Its the one that begins “Goodnight my Angel"
 
01:15:23 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSix58CXQQ
 
01:16:54 renwitter: The book is actually remarkably well adapted in the film. Very accurate.
 
01:26:32 Ann Grimak: Thank you so much Father
 
01:27:14 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XII, Part III

Thank you everyone who participated tonight and for all of your great comments!  God bless
Synopsis:
Continuing along with Hypothesis 12, we are given another extraordinary story of the relationship between a mother and her son. Saint Alypios makes the decision to live a life solely dedicated to God and to silence. His plan is to go to live among the monks of the East and to leave home and family in the pursuit of the will of God. 
His mother, setting aside all natural sensibilities even though she’s a widow, supports this desire and seeks to deepen it through her own prayer.  Her desire is that her son’s desire would be fulfilled and that he would come to know the fullness of the love of God. When the Alypios’ bishop persuades him to return to his homeland in response to a Divine voice, his mother does not cease in her support of Alypios’ holy desire but rather helps him to pursue it with a singular focus. As he grows in virtue and prayer, she helps him to construct a shelter on top of a pillar on which to live in greater solitude. Very much like Mary the Mother of our Lord, she participates and her son’s pursuit of God‘s will. She’s not a passive observer but rather intimately united in faith with her son; a unity that far surpasses what any earthly love could produce. 
This example of living for God in the moment, even to the point of letting go of all sense of security, is foreign to us and, frankly, frightening. How is it that we are to live in the moment in our lives and in our vocations in such a way that we do not become calculating?  How can we walk the path of faith with purity and perfection - holding nothing back from God out of fear or anxiety or self-love? It is these greater and more personal questions that these stories put forward for us to contemplate!
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:33:13 Ed Kleinguetl: Same as Mother Teresa of Calcutta
 
00:33:52 Rachel: Yes, I noticed that in my interactions with others. Something helped me very much, I heard a priest say, what people think of you is none of your business...
 
00:35:08 Rachel: then I realized, I don't even know what God thinks of me, I cannot store up virtues and line them up like trinkets. That yes, in the moment He is here. To love Him here and now.
 
00:36:16 Joseph Muir: The Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa’s nuns) in the Bronx have me on speed dial, and I sometimes get the most random phone calls from a small handful of the nuns in that particular convent, sometimes just to talk, but normally leading to their asking for a favor. They have such faith in their “associates”, the extended family of their community, to always be able to step up and help them out.
 
00:37:55 Rachel: Abandonment in this moment. It doesn't feel comfortable like some imply.
 
00:39:11 Eric Williams: My wife often mutters “You have a heck of a sense of humor, God!” ;)
 
00:39:16 Tyler Woloshyn: There is great joy in abandoning cares to the Lord no matter the overwhelming day when you find joy in setting aside that time to pray and do it joyfully.
 
00:41:09 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: "We will conquer only through the cross." Elder Arsenie
 
00:49:04 renwitter: I think @carol roper should perfect her shelter-building skills for when Luke climbs up a pillar to live 😊
 
00:51:58 Rachel: wow
 
00:53:31 Rachel: that is so beautiful! It reminds me of when a soul or if a soul would tear down all of the comforts/consolations that prevent one from fully clinging to God alone
 
00:57:33 Ambrose Little: Who knew that facepalm gesture was so venerable and ancient.
 
00:57:47 Joseph Muir: 🤣
 
00:58:05 renwitter: I was literally just writing the same thing!!!
 
00:58:11 renwitter: 🤣🤣
 
01:16:52 Rachel: thank you!
 
01:17:02 maureencunningham: Thank You  Lords Blessing
 
01:17:16 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks, Father!! And welcome Joanne! 😁
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XII, Part II

Thank you to all who participated in the group tonight!
To say that this was the most beautiful reading that we have considered in the Evergetinos would be an understatement. We continued our reflection on Hypothesis 12 on the importance of parents instilling in their children the love of virtue and the willingness to risk all for it. 
Tonight we read one single story: from the life of Saint Clement of Ancyra, martyr. The story centers on Clement’s mother who is a widow and so became for her son - father, teacher, and mother. Above all things she sought to teach her son the inestimable value of giving his life over to Christ. She taught him from the earliest age that, despite the fact that his earthly father had died before he knew him, Clement had gained God as his true Father. “Christ reared you in the strength of the Spirit”, she taught him. Above all, she did not want her son to lose sight of the fact that the love of Christ alone has true value and endures. He is our salvation - the One who has come to raise us up and to make us children of God. 
With the most beautiful exhortation she encourages Clement to ready himself for the trials to come. The depth of her faith gave her prophetic vision; she saw not only her own impending death but also the trial and martyrdom her son was to endure. Therefore, she would prepare him in every way throughout his tender years to seek “the one thing necessary”. 
In the story we also catch a glimpse of what parenthood looks like when transformed by faith and understood in light of the communion of saints. This mother understood that despite leaving her son in this world they are bound together. His heroic faith and coming martyrdom is something that she would share in intimately; the rewards and joy that will belong to Clement will be hers as well and together they will boldly worship before the throne of Christ. 
Clement, so nourished by his mother, endured the greatest tortures for Christ and then made the ultimate gift of his life to his Savior.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:31:42 John Clark: Everyone is Catholic in the Strip on Friday’s during lent..
 
00:51:47 Rachel (30): This is perfect
 
01:07:35 Rachel (30): Identity in Christ, teaching them that their true identity and union will be in Christ.
 
01:07:48 Rachel (30): Actually, that would be great marriage prep
 
01:09:24 Rachel (30): Thank you Fr. Abernathy and all
 
01:09:33 Rachel (30): lol
 
01:09:35 D Fraley: This was good. Thank you Father.

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis XI, Part II and Hypothesis XII, Part I

Thank you everyone who participated in the Evergetinos study group:
Such beautiful readings tonight!  I know this is an oft repeated observation that I make, but there was something in the readings this evening that struck deep to the heart. The conclusion of Hypothesis 11 spoke to us about the deep union enjoyed by individuals who shared a common love of the kingdom and pursuit of love and faith in this world. The deeper our purity of heart, we were told, the more clearly will we see the brightness of God’s glory and participate in it. All of this should spur us on to seek God above all things.
In beginning hypothesis 12, we discussed the formation of children in the life of faith. There is a deep need, from the earliest of years of life, to form a child in their desire to please God and in their love for virtue. Parents should rejoice in those trials of their children that are endured for the sake of Christ. This in turn calls parents to pursue the saintly life themselves. How can they encourage their children to long for the kingdom unless they have a similar yearning within their own hearts?  We were given the most beautiful story of the tender love of a mother for a son who was martyred. Her joy over her son’s participation in the glory of her Lord and her solidarity in the sufferings of her son was nothing short of extraordinary. She was no passive participant in the formation of her child; nor was she apassive participant in his suffering and thus deserving a share in the promised of glory.  Such stories reshape our understanding of existence and what it is that we value and cherish the most.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:33:44 Eric Williams: Nerdy Thomist? Is there any other kind? ;)
 
00:34:04 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:07:19 Daniel Allen: Wow
 
01:22:12 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis X, Part II and Hypothesis XI, Part I

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 10 and began Hypothesis 11. Both speak with us about the deepest realities of human existence. The weight and the significance of our choices, the things we love, the realities that we give our hearts to, are all placed before us for our consideration. Quite naturally this creates tension and uneasiness within the mind. The reflections are sobering to say the least. They speak to us about a malicious evil who furiously seeks to undermine our faith in the mercy of God; that puts before us every sin that we have ever committed from the moment of our birth to the end of our lives.  At the moment when we are about to come before the Righteous Judge, they attack us with the greatest fury, seeking what actions of ours belong to them. While unsettling, such truths compel us to examine our lives with honesty. To whom or to what have we given our hearts?  Hypothesis 11 addresses how, after death, souls are assigned to the same place as those souls which lived in a similar way on earth. There is a radical solidarity, a bond that exists between those who share a common love. Those who love God and who have given themselves over to Him fully will experience a radical unity with others of a similar mind and heart; seeing with an unobstructed  gaze all that others have in their hearts. Similarly those who share a common love of a particular sin will be bound together and know similar consequences.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:29 Eric Williams: Would “The Way of a Pilgrim” be suitable for Schola Christi?
 
00:24:13 renwitter: If I was as holy as St. Gemma, maybe I could say with her: “If I saw the gates of hell open and I stood on the brink of the abyss, I would not despair; I would not lose hope of mercy, because I would trust in you, my God.”
 
00:33:04 Tyler Woloshyn: Great book for Lent as well.
 
00:49:26 renwitter: **Such a beautiful line from Scripture** One of my favorites
 
00:51:27 Ashley Kaschl: Something about this is reminding me of a quote from CS Lewis’s “The Weight of Glory”: 
 
“If we consider the unblushing promises of reward … promised in the Gospels, it would seem that our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at sea. We are far too easily pleased.”
 
00:53:03 renwitter: These Hypothesis’ are scaring me to death. I’m never going to sleep tonight :-( Sigh
 
00:54:29 Rachel (30): Yes! Start now, and every moment from now on! Our limited capabilities will never be enough, but our intentions and giving the whole of our selves, everything emptied out for Love. The thief on the Cross, the disposition of his heart, by the grace of God, must've been such a deep and true repentance that if he could live a thousand years, he would live in repentance. He had encountered Life, Love itself. But our Lord, in His mercy, took the thief to Himself right then, in that moment in time. Whatever time we have left, give everything.
 
00:57:35 renwitter: The second one!
 
01:14:19 Rachel (30): Thank you
 
01:14:34 Carol Nypaver: Blessings to all!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis IX, Part III and Hypothesis X, Part I

Tonight we concluded a brief section from Hypothesis Nine and began reading Hypothesis Ten. The subject matter of these readings is rather fierce; presenting us over and over again with the experience of death. What is the experience of the soul at the moment of death bearing within it  its vices and virtues alone.? 
We are presented with images and visions of the Saints who describe a malignant evil set upon the demise of those seeking to follow the narrow path that leads to the kingdom. Even at the moment of death the evil one is there to accuse and weigh in the balance individual’s vices and virtues. If anything these images stress for us the reality of evil and hostile powers set upon our demise and that the spiritual life and struggle has cosmological scope. 
Such truths remind us of the necessity of constant vigilance in the spiritual warfare. We must desire to the kingdom above all things and seek it with purity of heart and intention. It is this alone that sets us upon the path to the kingdom with a holy boldness even when faced with these hostile powers in their most fearful form.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:16:50 Ed Kleinguetl: Orthodox theory of the toll houses
 
00:22:57 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:23:12 Ashley Kaschl: 84
 
00:46:37 Rachel (30): Yes, exactly! What a sobering reflection.
 
01:06:46 Eric Williams: When being chased by a wild beast, one needn’t run fastest - just faster than one’s companions. ;)
 
01:07:22 Rachel (30): lol
 
01:14:21 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a blessed evening folks. I am off to my Ukrainian class. Please pray for Canada during our federal election tonight. God bless! :)
 
01:15:06 Erick Chastain: will do!
 
01:15:49 renwitter: “Do we all flap” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
01:16:06 renwitter: Made. My. Night
 
01:21:48 Rachel (30): thank you
 
01:21:51 D Fraley: Thanks Father David
 
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis IX, Part II

We continued this evening with our reading of Hypothesis IX. As always the stories that we are given from the Fathers are both comforting and fiercely challenging. 
We heard first about how saintly souls are able to see divine things. Because of their purity of heart and by the grace of God they are able to have a vision of things beyond the limits of the human mind and our capacity for perceiving the hidden realities around us. 
We also heard about the reality of Hell itself through the experience of these holy Fathers. Hell is presented very much as the opposite of the complete intimacy and communion the faithful soul shares with the eternal Trinity. If that life is lacking in nothing and knows the fullness of love, Hell is the experience of complete isolation from God and one another. Those who were blessed to receive the fullness of revelation in Christ, those who know His teaching and yet turned away from it, come to experience the deeper loss. For the judgment that comes upon them is not only due to their sinful actions and deeds, it also due to the fact that they have lead others to blaspheme the name of God and to insult God. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:20 D Fraley: Would you go back?
 
00:14:35 Rachel (30): FR. John McGuckin has a good talk on St. Cyril
 
00:14:47 Rachel (30): Do you have pictures of the Sinai icons?
 
00:16:30 Ashley Kaschl: I’m with you, Ren. It’s WAY easier to warm up than cool off.
 
00:38:18 Rachel (30): Yes! Exactly what I was hoping to be addressed today. The renewal of the Church through the Fathers..
 
00:39:51 Rachel (30): I have encountered suspicion at times, in the West, of the Fathers, the writings of the Philokalia, Cassian, Climacus, Maximos,,I think it our blessing, priviledge and patrimony..to be able to have access to these teachings and writings.
 
00:42:30 Ambrose Little: “I agree with all that you have said.”
 
00:42:50 Carol Nypaver: 😆
 
00:56:45 Carol Nypaver: Why are they being punished for not knowing God?  Why wouldn’t they be in Purgatory?
 
01:04:36 Erick Chastain: This is called limbo, a section of hell for virtuous pagans
 
01:06:47 Carol Nypaver: So “limbo” is part of Hell?
 
01:12:16 renwitter: There is a document put forward by Pope Benedict XVI in 2007 that marks a firm turn away from any idea of limbo in the Catholic faith. Pope Benedict said that the idea of limbo should be abandoned because it had always been always “only a theological hypothesis” and “never a defined truth of faith.” It would seem that the main motivation for this clarification on the part of the Church was that limbo was seen as unjustly limiting the mercy of God.
 
01:16:58 Carol Nypaver: Someone who never knew God being condemned to Hell seems like a limit to God’s Mercy. (Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely confused)
 
01:21:57 renwitter: I was just speaking to the idea of limbo. All I can think about this story is something we have spoken about in the past - that in these writings there is not a distinction made between hell and purgatory as we think of them, and that hell is often used in a way that we would use purgatory. The very fact that they can receive any consolation at all seems to be a clue into the nature of the place - not hopeless. Again, I don’t actually know, but this is something we have spoken about in the past.
 
01:22:25 renwitter: Of course, hell is often spoken of also in the way we would think about it.
 
01:24:43 Ambrose Little: I think we can focus too much on figuring out the circles of hell. :) The underlying point in this passage seems to be that it is a greater sin to know God and turn away from him than to never have known him but not believe. This is supported in Scripture, too.
 
01:25:28 renwitter: Great point, Ambrose. And one that always makes me feel so doomed. :-(
 
01:26:17 Rachel (30): the distortion is in the understanding
 
01:27:06 Ambrose Little: Throw yourself on the mercy of God! Be that “valiant struggler” and repent immediately every time you sin.
 
01:28:42 Ambrose Little: Those whom the Lord loves, He chastises. People don’t recognize that the “hardness” of God is for our own good.
 
01:30:06 Carol Nypaver: “It is through suffering that the soul is purified.”
 
01:30:42 Eric Williams: Blame my cat ;)
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis IX, Part I

Tonight we began Hypothesis IX on “where the souls of the dying go and how they exist after the separation from the body.”  We are presented both with the experience of the Saints as they witness the death of others their ascent to heaven and also the experience of those who witness, through the action of God and his Angels,  both Hell and the joys of Heaven. 
Our contemplation of these stories is meant to foster kind of urgency within us. We are not to lose ourselves in empty speculation but rather allow the stories to stir within us the desire for God and a spirit of repentance. We are taught that we must have no illusions about our capacity to choose darkness, to dull the conscience, to such an extent that we choose freely the path that leads away from God. It is a frightening prospect but it is also a saving truth.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:28:47 renwitter: PSA: From now on, the link for this group will always be pghco.org/evergetinos
 
00:29:00 renwitter: The one for Wednesday will be pghco.org/theophan
 
00:35:24 Ambrose: Now we know why the father spoke so little. He could never get a word in edgewise. :)
 
00:50:20 Mark J. Kelly: Erick’s point reminds me of a great quote by Blaise Pascal, “To those who seek God, He gives sufficient light.  To those who do not seek Him, He gives sufficient darkness.”
 
00:50:52 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta go! See ya Wednesday. 😁
 
01:12:51 renwitter: The Church of the Quivering Brethren
 
01:13:22 Rachel (30): Referring to hidden things from ourselves and not living fully in Christ, I think St. Climacus speaks about this in the beginning of The Ladder. He relates a story of a monk who was living an unspeakably sinful life until he confessed his sins and not only to the priest alone but the whole community.
 
01:17:11 renwitter: For those who joined the group a little later tonight. PSA: From now on, the link for this group will always be pghco.org/evergetinos
The one for Wednesday will be pghco.org/theophan
 
01:20:10 Miron Kerul Kmec: will we get e-mail tooo?
 
01:22:09 renwitter: Yes! For each group
 
01:26:15 Ambrose: “There but for the grace of God go I.”
 
01:30:32 Rachel (30): Thank you.
 
01:31:26 D Fraley: Thank you

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VIII Part III

Continuing with Hypothesis VIII and considering the experience of those who die and come back to life, we are brought to a place of self-reflection that we often resist. The only thing that we take out of this world is either our virtue or our vice. Saint Ephraim tells us tonight that it is the it voice of these sins that will bear witness to the truth about our lives before God. 
Again we must strive to think about this in the full context of our faith and what God has revealed to us. God, we are told, wills that all be saved and does everything in his power to bring us to salvation. In His Son He has revealed to us his love and his mercy and he has given us the fullness of his grace in order to elevate us to the very life and the love of the Trinity. We must see our lives in light of this ultimate reality and our engagement with the world around us must be given shaped by this distinctive identity. There is no in-between state for us as Christian men and women. Life has been given to us for repentance; that is, in order to turn toward God and to receive his grace and mercy. We must not through heedlessness or sloth elevate other things above God and make them our idols. The stories that we are presented with tonight call out to us: “Now is the time, now is the moment of salvation.” Let us pray that we would have ears to hear.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:56 John Clark: The 3 key ingredients in French cooking..Butter..butter..and butter!
 
00:34:11 Ambrose: gaudium et spes
 
00:37:39 Lilly: in the wise words of an old man ... ‘god meets us where we are’
 
00:40:06 Tyler Woloshyn: Like the Old Testament Brazen Snake was made for good, it did get corrupted when misused for the wrong reasons.  It can be the same when people worship liturgy above God.
 
00:40:15 Joseph Muir: Thank God that He does, Lily!
 
00:57:11 Tyler Woloshyn: A priest once said, he would rather encounter people who are "theologically stupid" rather than the  career theologian who runs people over to put them down to reach the next theology book."
 
00:58:56 Joseph Muir: Which reminds me all the more, Tyler, that the greatest theologians are those who pray the most❤
 
00:59:41 Ambrose: GS 44-45 touch on this engagement as well as the priority of the Gospel and the person and work of Christ.
 
01:02:20 Eric Williams: At least you didn’t quote Only The Good Die Young. ;)
 
01:02:28 Tyler Woloshyn: Praying without ceasing makes great theologians. Good input their Joseph about prayerful theologians.
 
01:02:58 Joseph Muir: Hahahaha, wait, what Billy Joel song was he referencing?
 
01:06:24 Ambrose: Fr. A shared this recently. Thought it was great. If you are an eye-witness of your brother falling [into sin], say without hesitation: “A curse on you, Satan! My brother is not to blame”, and strengthen your heart against judging your brother, or the Holy Spirit will withdraw from you.
Anonymous Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
01:06:30 Eric Williams: Even vice is sort of a product now (maybe always was?). “Collect them all! Don’t be left out!”
 
01:09:40 Eric Williams: Billy Joel lyric:
 
01:09:45 Eric Williams: “You can get just so much
From a good thing
You can linger too long
In your dreams
Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies
‘Cause the good ole days weren’t
Always good
And tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems”
 
01:10:10 Eric Williams: Keeping the Faith, from the album An Innocent Man
 
01:10:40 Francesca pineda (30): Oh no! I missed what Paul of Thebes said because my phone died!
 
01:15:06 Francesca pineda (30): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VIII Part II

There are times when reading the Fathers or the gospel when one walks away feeling as if the earth is shifting beneath one’s feet; or one begins to question their perception of who they are, their identity as a Christian, and whether or not they are living it fully or if it is an illusion. As difficult as it is to consider such things, and as hard as they strike at the heart, they are often the most important things for us to reflect upon. To consider the truth about death and judgment as in Hypothesis VIII in an unvarnished fashion and to let it create tension within the mind and the heart, is something that perhaps relatively few people are willing to do. We grow comfortable in our illusions. To understand that we are being invited into the very mystery of God, the mystery of our redemption and the life that it is made possible, requires a willingness to make an ascent of faith. It means to allow ourselves to let go of all limitations and to allow God to draw us through the darkness of our faith to comprehend what he desires to reveal to us and as he desires to reveal to us. It is always love that is behind this but our experience of it and our resistance to it in our sin or our fear can make us turn away. Like Saint Peter it is our love and trust in Christ at those moments, when our sensibilities rebel or recoil, that allows us to say, “Lord where are we to go? You have the words of everlasting life.“
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:54:00 Lilly Crystal: The last sentence “Now, at the setting of the sun, you remember God?” reminds me of the Hymn sung at Vespers- O Joyful Light
 
01:07:43 Ambrose: That always gives me tingles.
 
01:22:33 D Fraley: Thank you Fr David.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VIII Part I

In Hypothesis VIII, we found ourselves considering something that is rather jarring to our sensibilities. We began listening to Saint Gregory the Great on the experience of those who die and come to life again and how this can happen by Divine Providence. We are presented with stories of those who are brought to deep repentance when they began to see that fearful state of Hell. We are also shown that such experiences may take place by God‘s providence perhaps not for the conversion of the one who is dying but for those who witness the the terror of the death of one outside of the grace of God and lacking a repentant heart. There is a fierce love at work bringing about our redemption and that fierceness shows itself by stripping us of any illusions about our lives; illusions either about our own mortality or the immortality of the soul. We see our great dignity and destiny in Christ. We are offered life eternal and an experience of union with the Triune God. However, this immortality of the soul outside of the context of our relationship with Christ presents us with a fearful reality; life without God and eternal death. God and his providence will scourge us in order to correct us and draw us back to the path that leads to life. He will allow us to taste the consequence and the bitterness of our own sin in order that we might turn away from it and hate it. This may not be easy to listen to and our inclination may be to turn away from it or to sanitize it. But if we strip the gospel of its teachings on the last things, if we remove the challenging thoughts of Christ in regards to the unbridgeable chasm that exist between heaven and hell, we lose sight of both our dignity and the weight and significance of our choices in this world. If the stories lead us to repentance they will ultimately lead us to joy; for they will lead us back to the bosom of God. Therefore we must not fear them and we must not avoid them - but allow them to shine their fearsome light upon us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:16:07 Eric Williams: Father forgot to mute everyone, so everyone check your mics! :)
00:16:23 Edward Kleinguetl: Thanks!
00:21:36 Tyler Woloshyn: He was also the author of the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts in the Byzantine church.
00:33:46 Ambrose: The staff is for beating off the wolves. :)
00:39:19 Eric Williams: Like what I was saying about young married priests in the East not having older priest families to learn from.
00:48:32 Edward Kleinguetl: Heb. 12:6.
00:49:58 Edward Kleinguetl: "For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines;  he scourges every son he acknowledges.”
00:51:59 Eric Williams: “My child, do not despise the Lord’s discipline    or be weary of his reproof,for the Lord reproves the one he loves,    as a father the son in whom he delights.” - Proverbs 3:11-12
00:52:02 renwitter: We do not always want to draw that connection between suffering and sin though, right? Christ himself addressed that, and I think of job’s friends trying to convince him that all he is suffering is a result of sin, which it wasn’t. Isn’t suffering also something given to us as a means of drawing us closer to Christ in His passion?
00:52:22 Erick Chastain: oh yeah for sure, not always
00:53:55 Eric Williams: ““How happy is the one whom God reproves;    therefore do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.[d]For he wounds, but he binds up;    he strikes, but his hands heal.” - Job 5:17-18
00:54:31 Edward Kleinguetl: Abba Dorotheos of Gaza: “In God’s providence everything is absolutely right and whatever happens is for the assistance of the soul. For whatever God does with us, he does out of love and consideration for us because it is adapted to our needs.”
01:17:01 Edward Kleinguetl: I met him, April 2, 2019, on Mt. Kolzam.
01:29:30 Nicole: Thank you!!!
01:29:59 D Fraley: Thank you Father David
 
 
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VII Part IV

This evening we concluded Hypothesis VII of the first volume of The Evergetinos. Once again we considered the experience of death of two saintly figures, St. Daniel the Stylite and Abba Sisoes. We begin to see in these two men how their constant repentance and the embrace of God’s grace brought forth, in anticipation, the life of the kingdom. The presence of the saints and angels, the light of Christ and the transformation of their countenance, all speak of the glory that lies on the other side of death. The stories are meant to awaken within us the desire for God and the life of virtue and to give us a lively sense of hope as we approach our own deaths. We are to allow these examples to spur us on in the spiritual life and to do so we must not read them simply in a notional way. Rather we must gaze upon them and listen to them with the eyes and ears of faith; such that we begin to comprehend the mystery of the Kingdom itself. Indeed this should be the posture of every man and woman of faith. We must look at all things in the light of what has been revealed to us in Christ; for only then will we begin to understand our true dignity and destiny as the redeemed Sons and Daughters of God.
--
Text of chat during the group:
00:27:55 Eric Williams: Probably a lounge lizard. ;)
00:31:15 renwitter: Honestly, I feel super awkward when the priest begins confession by saying “Welcome!” Instead of making the sign of the cross. Its like….ummmm…thank you?
00:32:11 Michael Liccione: I'm just relieved to get a priest who doesn't need convincing that my sins are sins!
00:32:20 renwitter: Wow Joe. Ditto to everything you’ve said so far.
00:32:41 Erick Chastain: my secret is my own y'all
00:33:09 carolnypaver: You mean, “yinz.”
00:33:26 renwitter: Ooo….the Saint Philip influence is rubbing off on Erick :D
00:33:49 Daniel Allen: Erick Chastain for the win!
00:33:50 Erick Chastain: am I allowed to use yinz as a non-Pittsburgher?
00:34:02 carolnypaver: Absolutely!
00:34:25 carolnypaver: ; )
00:35:33 Joseph Muir: I maybe lived in Pittsburgh for 11 years, but it was prefaced  with 25 years in Georgia, so my vote will always be for “y’all” over “yinz”
00:35:56 carolnypaver: Snob!  ; )
00:36:44 Joseph Muir: Having now been in the NYC area for 2 years, we’ll see if “you’s guys” eventually enters my lexicon🤣
00:37:25 carolnypaver: NYC——so sorry to hear.   : (
00:38:04 Joseph Muir: Not a fan, I take it, eh, Carolyn?😆
00:38:50 carolnypaver: Visited once…not impressed.  One-and-done for me. Thank you very much.
00:39:48 carolnypaver: The ‘Burgh is the place for me.  People are friendlier, I have found.
00:40:48 Joseph Muir: Half of my family is originally from here, so a part of it has always felt like home. I also get to hang out a lot with the Missionaries of Charity, Sisters of Life, and Franciscan Friars of the Renewal a lot, which is a blessing (I went to the profession of final vows Mass for the Franciscans yesterday afternoon, actually ❤)
00:41:39 carolnypaver: Awesome!  You’re in a good part of NYC!  ; )
00:42:34 Ambrose: Who is “the Church”? We is the Church. :)
00:44:56 Jonathan Rodriguez: Great point Eric
00:45:00 Daniel Allen: Facebook and Twitter... the “anti-church”? The depth of a puddle, I like that a lot.
00:45:08 Joseph Muir: That’s a very theologically astute observation, Fr Ambrose!😀
00:47:31 Ambrose: Just a mister Ambrose. There is a Fr. Ambrose Little, O.P. in the St. Joseph province (Eastern USA), who I have occasionally been mixed up with. I don’t mind, but poor Fr. Ambrose! lol
00:48:32 sue and mark: understood that the confessional was sacrosanct and can not be hears by the demons.  Isn't that true?
00:50:58 Eric Williams: “Who is the Church?” That’s a great thought and something that should convict us. I was thinking more of the institutional Church, though. We’ve had so many generations of poorly catechized members of the Church that we’re a chaotic mess of well-intentioned klutzes. It seems to me - and I’m frequently wrong - that our leaders have let us down and left us hanging. Too many of us are wandering sheep without reliable shepherds. To mix metaphors, we’re the blind leading the blind.
00:52:34 Ambrose: I dare say that is the perennial reality of the Church—always something of a mess; always in need of reform.
00:53:21 Joseph Muir: On that point, Eric, I’ve been listening to the Bible In A Year podcast from Fr Mike Schmitz ever since the start of this year, and looking at the Facebook group, the comments and questions are so all over the place, in a way that demonstrates the poor catechesis
00:53:45 Joseph Muir: I should probably leave the group, for the sake of my own soul🤣
01:02:27 sue and mark: who would not want to die that way?
01:05:12 Joseph Muir: “Noble simplicity”🙄
01:05:26 Lilly: Agree 100% Fr David
01:13:10 Eric Williams: In other words, we don’t overcome sin, per se, so much as we acknowledge that we are always sinning. So, we must be in perpetual repentence.
01:13:41 Joseph Muir: Found the article😀: https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2008/06/the-incredible-hulk-the-philokalia-and-anger-management
01:13:56 Lilly: @Eric well said.
01:14:47 Ambrose: The “art” of repentance. A good term for it. Always room to improve and further our art.
01:14:51 Eric Williams: The secret to the Hulk controlling his rage was acknowledging that he’s always angry, rather than blaming his outbursts on particular outrages. He stopped treating his anger as someone else’s fault. He’s always angry, so he is always dangerous.
01:16:32 Joseph Muir: Amen, Eric. This is also why it’s healthier to not simply see sin as the bad things that we do and say and think, but it is the state of our broken selves due to our inheriting this brokenness by virtue of original sin. We aren’t simply sinners due to our commiting individual acts of sin; we are sinners due to inheriting a sinful nature, a disease which only the God can cure us of in in the church, via the sacraments and prayer
01:17:12 Jonathan Rodriguez: Thank you!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VII Part III

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis VII, continuing our reflection upon the experience of death by those righteous souls who sought to draw close to God in their life. God in His great mercy will often come to them to console and prepare them for their own passover; their passing over from death to eternal life.
The unknown of this reality can be a fearful thing, and so in the stories we often hear of the dying soul being surrounded by his fellow monks praying for his soul. This moment, often feared and avoided by modern men and women, is something we are encouraged to meditate upon in the deepest way. It is not simply facing our fears, but facing them in light of what God has revealed to us and his only begotten Son. We are in the End Times; salvation is now and so every moment is freighted  with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love and give ourselves in love. The stories magnify that reality for us so that we would take our life seriously; but more importantly, that we would take God at his word. We must foster a kind of stability in life and mind; a clarity about what we pursue as our ultimate goal. Otherwise we may not prepare ourselves for that most intimate of moments when we will stand before God in the full light of His Truth.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:39:34 Eric Williams: Nope, not ready. Thanatophobia is rough. ;)
00:41:30 Ambrose Little: I think it’s the attraction of gnosticism, too.
00:45:21 Eric Williams: Erick must be fun at parties. ;)
00:47:18 Erick Chastain: :)
00:56:59 Tyler Woloshyn: An example of semantron https://youtu.be/iXj7DLHH9-E
01:02:52 Eric Williams: Every parent willing to be honest will say they’ve wanted to flee. ;)
01:03:34 renwitter: Personally, I favor “One day I’ll fly away” from Mulan Rouge :-D My personal favorite “run-away song.”
01:07:45 Eric Williams: *innocent whistling*
01:09:13 Ambrose Little: Eric, rather this: https://youtu.be/3br0tDqW3r8 :)
01:13:21 D Fraley: Thank you, Father David.
01:14:02 Lilly: Thank you!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VII Part II

Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis VII on the experience of death for those who have sought to live a virtuous life; how God often offers consolation or aids them by accompanying them through the experience of death. We are presented with one beautiful story after another. But, what becomes evident is that these are not simply to be read as pious stories, but rather something that speaks to how we view life as a whole including our preparation for death. We are reminded how important it is to be present to those who are dying; not just as an obligation but as a privilege to accompany a loved one in this most important moment. The stories also speak to us about the importance of forming our own hearts and those of our children from the earliest ages to understand how present God is to us at every moment of our lives. We need to shape the religious imagination in such a way that it creates within us an urgent longing for what God alone promises.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:30:16 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?
00:30:28 Eric Williams: 56
00:31:07 Tyler Woloshyn: First saint that comes to mind is St. Rafka, the Maronite nun-Saint, the Lily of Lebanon.
00:43:15 sue and mark: Holy death is a life long process.
00:54:25 Eric Williams: The East has a tradition of reciting the entire psalter over the recently deceased, continuously throughout day and night, if possible. It fell into disuse, but I'm told it's slowly returning. Also returning are families washing and dressing the body, as well as forgoing embalming.
00:59:00 Eric Williams: My wife's family stopped working on their grape farm in the middle of picking when they got news her grandfather was dying. In the midst of that very busy and very important period of time, they dropped everything and showed up at the nursing home in grungy clothes and covered in mud. They were able to be their for his last moments.
00:59:36 Eric Williams: *there (I hate typos :P)
01:03:08 Tyler Woloshyn: It is also chanted on Good Friday  night into Holy Saturday Vigil in front of the Tomb of the Lord. Seminarians would take turns in Kathismatas.
01:04:54 renwitter: My funeral is planned and the program is printed :-D
01:06:41 Joseph Muir: My godfather became an alcoholic, so bad that, when I was a young child, younger than 10,  my parents pulled away. My mom’s dad was an alcoholic, and some of the family wounds (some that are still felt today) were deep enough that they wanted to ensure my not being needlessly exposed to toxicity. Eventually, now in my 20s, he was on his deathbed, dying of sclerosis of his liver, due to decades of hard drinking. We hadn’t seen each other in probably 10+ years, and he was hooked up to a million tubes, and, while “awake”, wasn’t communicative. Even fo this day, I am convinced that our hearts spoke to each other that day, that he apologized for his addiction, since it kept us from having more of a relationship; and, in my heart, I was able to tell him that I forgave him, that I loved him, and that he could be assured of my prayers❤
01:14:47 Lisa Weidner: An important prayer to pray as someone is dying is the Divine Mercy Chaplet , and after their passing
01:22:17 Eric Williams: I'm always amazed and impressed when I see or hear about children playing "mass", whereas most would play "house, or as knights, or as policemen, firemen, or doctors.
01:25:09 renwitter: There is nothing like the sound of little voices humming “pray for us” (from the litany of our patron saints that we do) as they walk to their cars **heart eyes**
01:28:31 Sharon: Catechesis of the Good Shepherd is a beautiful catechetical model which is a fruit of Maria Montessori’s philosophy of teaching.
01:31:25 carolnypaver: Armata Bianca (White Army) was PadrePio’s vision.
01:37:49 sue and mark: catechesis of the Good Shepherd is excellent!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VI Part III and Hypothesis VII Part I

Tonight we began our discussion of Hypothesis VII on the many times that the souls of virtuous people are made cheerful at the time of death by some divine overshadowing.
What we find in these paragraphs and the stories that they tell of the experience of those dying being consoled by God, by a vision of angels, or by saints is a portrait of how God has transformed for us the experience of death. For those who draw close to Him in faith and have embraced his grace, the moment is transformed from one of fear or terror to a moment of deep consolation and the experience of the presence of God and of his love.
On another level, this speaks to us about the nature of the Incarnation itself. All that has been assumed has been redeemed. This includes the experience of suffering and death. For those who have faith, entering into these realities -  whether our own or others - should be something that we do freely.
This is how a Christian is to love. We do not live in isolation from each other; we do not suffer alone or allow others to suffer and die alone. If God comes to the aid of his faithful in these stories, it is to show us what we are to do and be for others at the moment of their death. We are to love as He loves.  We are to enter into the most fearful of experiences and grasp the hand of the person that God has put before us as He will one day take hold of our own.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:27 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?
00:13:36 carolnypaver: 51
00:13:56 Daniel Allen: Thank you
00:33:28 carolnypaver: Some of us have no choice…
00:43:32 Jim Milholland: We are always looking to take another bite out of the proverbial apple of knowledge.
00:43:51 Eric Williams: Great way to put it!
00:45:05 Eric Williams: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
00:49:32 Ambrose Little: It’s a memorable anecdote that can make the deeper reflection stick more, though.
00:53:18 Eric Williams: This sort of reminds me of when Jesus told people to not touch Him or hold on to Him because He had yet to ascend. Perhaps we shouldn't see these dying words as treating the wife's touch as sinful or tempting the husband to sin. Rather, he desired to depart this world and join his Lord, and his wife mustn't cling to him, preventing his departure.
00:53:39 Ambrose Little: It’s a backhanded compliment for her. Lolz
01:09:11 Eric Williams: I've read or heard countless stories of Eastern saints from whom fragrant, often miraculously healing, myrrh flowed at death. Are there similar stories from the deaths of Western saints? Is it less common in the West, and if so, why? (This might be too much of a digression, which is why I opted to type rather than raise my hand to speak.)
01:21:06 carolnypaver: “The Fourth Wiseman” (movie)has a good depiction of the leper colony.
01:24:53 Jim Milholland: A pandemic of fear and complacency
01:25:12 Ambrose Little: I could yawn a lot more. :D
01:25:19 Edward Kleinguetl: "The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread" (Mother Teresa of Calcutta).
01:29:37 Eric Williams: The Evergetinos: Sponsored by Clorox(TM)
01:31:58 Ashley Kaschl: I think, too, the technology we have (while able to be used for good) gives the illusion of action and participation so it’s easy for people to grow complacent because they think they’re acting by watching, posting, etc.
01:32:06 iPad (32) jeane kish: Outstanding teaching by the Master, Fr. David, thank you!
01:32:34 Jim Milholland: Has the pandemic been a kind of asceticism too?

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis VI Part II

We read the Fathers in the way that we read the Scriptures; with a profound humility and knowledge that we lack perfect understanding. There are no experts in the desert Fathers any more than there are experts in the Faith or the Scriptures. When confronted with eternal realities, whether that reality be the eternal love of God or that of Hell one is compelled to sit in silence. When reading the Evergetinos this silence must be that of one who has a docile heart, a heart that is teachable. The heart that is teachable understands that it must suspend judgment and gradually allow God to pull back the veil that limits its vision. It is the pure of heart who come to see God. This we must acknowledge - that in the face of our sin we are not going to see and understand things clearly, much less eternal realities. We must humbly gaze upon our God with the eyes of love and through the ascetical life we must set aside the self that we so often make the idol that we worship.
Tonight we reflected in Hypothesis VI upon the glory of the Saints and the joys of heaven. Yet, we do so knowing that we see so little. We hold on to these things with hope. We hope in the One who has promised us life. We hope in the One who has died for our sins. 
Most often this experience expresses the full measure and limit of our faith. We cling to the God who has revealed himself in His only begotten Son.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:46 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:01:56 The Pittsburgh Oratory: A must read!!
00:01:56 Robyn: Hi Father, hi everyone
00:04:09 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:11:52 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:20:35 Tyler Woloshyn: Newly baptized and newly illuminated infants, are new temples of the Holy Spirit. In a certain sense bowing to the Holy Spirit. Just a quick thought.
00:35:36 Lilly Crystal: 1 Corinthians 2:9 “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man, The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” There IS joy in suffering, though few know how to embrace it with love. We must take up our cross, no matter how heavy, and follow Him! :)
01:07:42 Eric Williams: St Ephraim wouldn't think highly of universal salvation theologies, it seems.
01:31:01 Erick Chastain: yep
01:32:03 Lilly Crystal: Thank you Father!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part VII & Hypothesis VI Part I

“What will become of me?“ Such a simple question but one that clarifies the importance of the moment for us as men and women of faith. Where do we live our lives? What do we seek, what do we love and desire? These simple questions turn out to be the most important for us because in the end they shape our identity and the path that we take.
Moving on to Hypothesis VI, we began to consider the end of that path which is the glory of Heaven and of the Saints. We must foster a longing and develop an appetite now for the Divine. We must have a “nostalgia” for our homeland, remembering in hope the promises of God and understanding that while we are in this world we are also in exile. We are to seek to allow ourselves to be nourished more and more upon the things that foster not only strength of virtue but depth of desire for God.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:46 carolnypaver: Does the baby Miron have a Confirmation name?
00:29:39 Joseph Muir: Put the book title here in the chat, Daniel!!!!!!!
00:30:28 Erick Chastain: Lauris?
00:31:28 Daniel Allen: Laurus. The only thing I have ever read that is similar to it are the works of Dostoyevsky.
00:32:30 Erick Chastain: I have a copy but I haven't read it!
00:37:52 Joseph Muir: I’m a huge Russian literature fan,  Dostoyevsky in particular (I’ve probably read the Brothers Karamazov 3 times)
00:40:14 renwitter: I am as well Joe! I read Laurus a while back, and have always loved Dostoyevsky, but I have to say that Solzhenitsyn is #1 for me.
00:42:08 Joseph Muir: I’ve never read anything from Solzhenitsyn, but am more than open to recommendations!
01:02:34 renwitter: Wow. That is amazing Ambrose. Thank you.

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part VI

Such power in a few words. Perhaps this is what makes the writings of the Fathers so compelling. In a few brief sentences or in the short story they capture for us the very essence of the life of faith. We begin to see with a kind of radical simplicity, a simplicity perhaps with which we are uncomfortable, the clear focus that we are to have in our pursuit of God. We must allow nothing to prevent our movement towards Him. We have been promised a share in life eternal; where the joy of life will have no end, where intimacy will have no limitations, where there will be no fear or anxiety. This is what our hearts are to be set upon; this is what spurs us on to travel the narrow path in the pursuit of God and the things of the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:00 Lisa Weidner: Hello,
00:19:17 Lisa Weidner: What page are we reading?  thank you
00:19:24 carolnypaver: 44
00:20:00 Lisa Weidner: thanks!
00:25:25 Joseph Muir: This passage reminds me of a common Byzantine prayer for the dead:
“O Christ our God, with the saints grant rest to the soul of your departed servant, in a place where there is no pain, no grief, no sighing, but everlasting life.”
00:25:52 carolnypaver: Lovely.
00:53:51 Tyler Woloshyn: Once again it connects to me liturgically with this excerpt.  Sixth Ode for Preparation of Holy Communion: "Whirled about in the abyss of sin, I appeal to the unfathomable abyss of Your Compassion: Raise me, O God, from corruption."   "Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me."  "O Savior, sanctify my mind and soul, my heart and body, and deem me worthy to approach Your awesome Mysteries without condemnation." "Cast me not from Your presence, nor deprive me of Your Holy Spirit." "O Christ, grant that I may be ride of my passions and grow in Your grace. May I be strengthened and confirmed in life by communion of Your holy Mysteries."
00:54:53 carolnypaver: Wow!
01:01:36 Eric Williams: I remember when watching Brother Sun, Sister Moon was a traditional experience at Oratory retreats. ;)
01:02:26 Tyler Woloshyn: It has been a movie that a vocations director recommended people watch. On my to watch list.
01:02:54 Carole DiClaudio: Good to know; I’ve never watched it.
01:03:36 carolnypaver: Very 1970’s but the message is there.
01:06:24 Wayne Mackenzie: Brother Sun, Brother Moon..
01:07:20 carolnypaver: Yep.
01:08:19 Carole DiClaudio: ??
01:09:16 Wayne Mackenzie: It's the name of the movie about St.Fancis
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part V

We continue this evening with our study of Hypothesis V - on the remembrance of death and final judgment. While this might fill the minds and the hearts of many with trepidation, many of the fathers see the remembrance of death as the essential work in the spiritual life. The reason for this and the intention behind it is not to fill the heart with anxiety but rather to turn the heart toward God Who alone promises us forgiveness and the fullness of life and love in Him. The Scriptures tell us that God is set upon our salvation and so hope is always to be found in Him. His love for us is unquenchable. As we have heard, the mere turning of the mind and the heart toward him brings upon us a flood of mercy and grace. The remembrance of death and judgment are simply an aid to remind us not to take this gift lightly. God has given us everything and has nothing greater to give – the perfect love of His only begotten Son. It is that love that is eternal and we will either respond to that love or we don’t. Now is the moment of salvation and how we respond perpetuates itself both in this world and in the world come unless we turn toward God in repentance. Once our eyes close for the last time that opportunity - to turn toward the embrace that is ever reaching out towards us - passes.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:09 carolnypaver: Wow! Sounds exhausting!
00:44:55 Joseph Muir: Here are two prayers from Byzantine  vespers, according to the Gregorian calendar, from earlier today, in a similar vein to the one that I read earlier:
O Christ, You are the only sinless One, the only patient One, the only Source of goodness! Look upon my misery and affliction. Wipe away all the scars of my wounds. In your mercy, save your servant; that having driven away all clouds of despair, O Savior, I may glorify Your supreme goodness!
Ponder your deeds, O my wretched soul! Behold how they are all defiled with filth! Behold your nakedness and your isolation. For you are in danger of being separated from God and His holy angels and of being delivered to eternal torments. Be vigilant, then, and make haste to cry aloud: “O Savior, I have sinned! Grant me Your forgiveness and save me!”
00:48:21 Joseph Muir: ¡De nada!
00:53:35 Wayne Mackenzie: Don't we send ourselves to Hell, rather than God?
00:54:35 Eric Williams: "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'" C. S. Lewis
01:05:39 Lilly: I’ve never seen that Icon before. I will have to look it up. What is it called?
01:06:54 Erick Chastain: except judas
01:07:14 Erick Chastain: the patristic witness to judas being in hell is pretty clear
01:07:23 Erick Chastain: /consistent
01:07:28 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: icon of fearful or awesome judgement, aka last judgement, sometimes might also be called icon of or for Meatfare Sunday.
01:09:09 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in the Coptic orthodox tradition there is a point of view that Judas Iscariot repented between the time when he jumped and when the rope broke his neck, but I cannot find the exact quote.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part IV

We continued tonight our study of Hypothesis V where the Fathers speak to us of the importance of the remembrance of death and the remembrance of judgment.
We began with the thoughts of Abba Isaiah the seeks to teach us about the three things that preserve virtue; sorrow for sin, tears for our sins, and the ceaseless recollection of death. These three hold before our minds the significance of the present moment.  Every moment for us is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity for us to embrace the love and the grace of God or to neglect it. We have to let go of the illusion not only that we will have time enough for repentance but also the illusion that simply living a good or a moral life is in fact living a Christian life. We may pursue virtue as a commodity; something that is gathered and stored and that builds up our self-image and self-esteem. Such things have their own value but they are not necessarily reflective of the fact that we have embraced Christ and the life that he has made possible for us through the cross. We are called to the divine life and all of our words, thoughts and actions are to be reflective of Christ. We are to be living icons of the gospel. We can approach our lives with a kind of indifference when it comes to their spiritual significance. We can expend a lot of energy and be willing struggle to pursue our own ends in this world but we will accept willingly being wounded and bitten over and over again by the spiritual dragon and bearing his stings of distraction.  We can allow ourselves to be swallowed up by sin or evil daily and pay it no mind. It is for this reason that the remembrance of death and judgment is important. It speaks to us of what God has given us but also the weight and the significance of our response.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part III

We continued this evening with our study of Hypothesis V and the writings of Saint Ephraim on the subject of the importance of remembering death and judgment. Like so many of the Fathers, Ephraim stresses the need to prepare ourselves for that final journey that inevitably comes to us all – the moment of death. He also speaks to us about how the enemy will try to make us delay or put aside our attention to this reality. When it comes to life in this world death, in a sense, is the ultimate master. Death, of course, does not have the last the last word. God has spoken His Word of Life and through it has opened up a path for us to experience the fullness of the life of the Holy Trinity. The enemy, however, will try to convince us that we are young and have a great amount of time; that we can put off repentance until after we lived life in this world to its fullest. However, Ephraim tells us that the one who is truly blessed is the one who has carried the yoke of Christ from his earliest days. In fact, this is the greatest gift that a parent can give to their child. From the moment of their baptism they enter into this profound relationship with God. To be taught to embrace the gift of being a child of God is the greatest thing that a parent can offer their son or daughter. The Fathers, like Christ in the gospel, want us have no illusions about the fact that how we respond to the love perpetuates itself unto eternity. What is offered to us is Love; and that Love can be embraced or it can be scorned and neglected. The Fathers pleas with us as Christ did to embrace life, to embrace love. This is what Christ thirsts for – that His love would be requited.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:59:50 renwitter: That parable always sounds a bit catty if it is not explained well :-D
01:05:11 Erick Chastain: that was in one of the psalms
01:14:28 Eric Williams: Fortunately, when I joined the Church in 2000, Fr David was still preaching fire and brimstone, so my catechesis was not warm, fuzzy, or weak. ;)
01:24:18 Nicole: Sorry! Did you want our microphones on so we are hearing each other pray?
01:24:43 Nicole: I forgot LOL
Have a great week everyone, thank you Father :)

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis V Part II

We continued with our reading of Hypothesis Five where the Fathers discuss with us the importance of remembering death as well as judgment. Such thoughts are not to elicit fear within the heart but rather magnify the significance of the moment and help us live in the moment as opposed to the past or the future. Every moment is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love or not to love. The remembrance of death teaches us not to put off repentance and not to doubt the mercy of God when we find ourselves caught up in our sin. It also teaches us to listen keenly to the voice of our conscience as it calls us back to God. This is a fundamental and permanent element of the spiritual life and so should be cultivated with great discipline and care.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:31:03 Erick Chastain: "sin makes you stupid"
00:48:19 Michael Liccione: Negative anthropology becomes very attractive if you spend much time on social media.
00:51:09 sue and mark: now it makes sense.
00:58:26 renwitter: First he coughs at me, then he yawns at Ambrose. . . geez. I think the next time Erick starts talking we should all start quacking or something.
00:58:45 Michael Liccione: LOL
00:58:49 Carole DiClaudio: hahaha
00:58:59 Lilly Crystal: Lol @ren
00:59:00 Erick Chastain: Yeah sorry everyone for that.
00:59:16 Joseph Muir: 🤣
00:59:49 Erick Chastain: It's the live experience I guess
01:00:05 Michael Liccione: Your lived experience :)
01:01:04 renwitter: I love that our chat transcript is published along with the podcast 😂😂😂
01:01:09 Daniel Allen: Only adds to the group it’s hilarious.
01:02:01 Erick Chastain: Yeah who needs TV?
01:08:39 Sharon: Otherwise, would that be the sin of presumption?
01:08:59 renwitter: And terrifying
01:11:34 Ambrose Little: Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)
01:11:39 Sharon: … and ought we not canonize people when they die?
01:12:55 Sharon: I don’t mean canonized saints, but just anyone at the time of death.
01:13:18 Michael Liccione: No
01:14:56 Sharon: I agree. It just seems like no matter whose funeral, people talk as though they absolutely know the deceased is in heaven.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis IV and Hypothesis V

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis IV.  Its focus is that those afflicted by the passions should be guided slowly in the works of repentance. To help us understand this we are given a wonderful story of a young man who is sent into the fields to clear them. However upon seeing them filled with thorns and weeds he very quickly becomes depressed at the thought of the work that was ahead of him. He lays down in the grass and goes to sleep. His father on approaching him ask him why he has been so negligent. The young man states that he was overwhelmed.  Wisely and with compassion the father simply tells him to sleep in a different place every night so as to flatten out the grass and the weeds simply where he chooses to lay down. This is the son did and over time he was able to clear the entire field. This is a wonderful parable because it shows us how difficult the spiritual life can be at the beginning. The bar is set very low by the father so as not to discourage. We must invest ourselves and create a rule to follow. That is a given. However, we must have patience and an awareness of our poverty. We must work within our limits until God adds grace to grace and we are able to complete the task. The spiritual life is not simply about our will but rather our embrace of the grace of God in the moment.
In Hypothesis Five, the fathers begin to describe the importance of keeping the thought of death and future judgment in mind in order that one might struggle constantly against the passions. Remembering death daily will begin to free us from unduly attaching ourselves to worldly things or losing ourselves in the work of our own hands. The remembrance of death dispels the illusion of pleasures and lifts up the soul when it is inclined to sin.  All the stories in this section seek to remind us not to be prideful about our spiritual pursuits or to see them as arising from our own efforts. They also remind us not to put off our conversion from day to day for we are not guaranteed a long life. We know neither the day nor the hour when God will call us to himself and when we will stand in the fullness of his light. This is the very nature of God. To come into His presence is to be penetrated by the light of truth. Nothing shall be hidden and so nothing in this life should be taken for granted or taken lightly.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:11 Lilly Crystal: Welcome Kyle and Andrew! Happy you guys could make it :)
00:15:35 Kyle Davidson: thanks for the invite, Lily
00:35:26 Tyler Woloshyn: Spiritual directors mention that God's work is clearest in the hidden.  The liminal space, or that threshold a person crosses is where God is working the most in the soul of the Christian. Not focusing on the past or worrying about the future. It is like a furnace and forge at work simultaneously.
00:38:54 Lilly Crystal: @Diana welcome hermana so happy you could make it :)
00:53:01 Lilly Crystal: “4 Last Things” by Father Isaac Mary Relyea is an amazing 4-part sermon… New Yorker by the way ;)
00:57:04 Tyler Woloshyn: "As I arise from sleep, I thank You O Most Holy Trinity, for Your great goodness and patience with me, an idler and a sinner. You have not become indignant towards me, nor have You allowed me to die in my sins.  Instead, You have shown me the love that You have for all mankind.  You raised me from sleep, that I may greet this new day in prayer and glorify Your sovereign power.  And now enlighten my eyes of understanding, open my understanding, open my ears to receive Your words, and teach me Your commandments.  Help me to do Your will, to sing to You, to profess You from all my heart, and to praise Your all-holy name, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and for ever and ever. Amen."  (Morning prayer of St. Basil the Great)
01:00:58 Joseph Muir: Prayer of Saint John of Damascus, to be prayed before going to sleep:
O Lord, Lover of Mankind, is this bed to be the coffin, or will You enlighten my wretched soul with another day? Here the coffin lies before me, and here death confronts me. I fear, O Lord, Your Judgment and the endless torments; yet I cease not to do evil. My Lord and God, I continually anger You, and Your Immaculate Mother, and all the Heavenly Powers, and my Holy Guardian Angel. I know, O Lord that I am unworthy of Your love, but deserve condemnation and every torment. But, whether I want it or not, save me, O Lord. For to save a good man is no great thing, and to have mercy on the pure is nothing wonderful, for they are worthy of Your mercy. But show the wonder of Your mercy to me, a sinner. In this, reveal Your love for Man, lest my wickedness prevail over your unutterable goodness and mercy. And order my life as you will. Amen.
01:01:45 Tyler Woloshyn: In ancient Rome, whenever a Roman General or Emperor returned from a victory in battle. During the Triumphant parade, there would be a man hired to whisper into his ear, "Thou art mortal."
01:11:19 Tyler Woloshyn: Thank you for the wonderful lesson tonight Father. I am off to a Moleben to the Mother of God. Have a blessed evening everyone.
01:11:36 Kyle Davidson: thanks for the talk. I have to join a new call.
01:11:52 renwitter: We should have shirts made that say YODO - You Only Die Once. Get Ready.
01:12:17 carolnypaver: Oh yeah!
01:12:17 Joseph Muir: I’d buy one, Ren!
01:12:18 Lilly Crystal: @Ren omg lol
01:12:52 renwitter: I’ll design it. With a nice little skull. Maybe a prayer rope.
01:13:06 Eric Williams: Life is Short: Pray Hard
01:13:07 Lilly Crystal: Yesss girl
01:14:18 Joseph Muir: You could collaborate with https://instagram.com/pursuedbytruth?utm_medium=copy_link
01:16:13 Lilly Crystal: @Joseph coolest nun ever
01:17:18 Eric Williams: The second law of thermodynamics tells that nothing left alone stays the same. Anything we don't put energy into will degrade into chaos.
01:17:44 renwitter: Ooo. I love that. Lessons in the spiritual life straight from the natural world **heart**
01:20:06 carolnypaver: Are there any books left to purchase?
01:20:12 renwitter: No, not at the Oratory
01:20:18 renwitter: But direct from the Publisher
01:20:55 sue and mark: retreat!!!!!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis III, Part II

This evening we concluded Hypothesis III on “how a person should repent”.  The elders begin by emphasizing sorrow in the spiritual life. This is not a sorrow that leads a person into depression or despondency. It is not rooted in shame but rather in the acknowledgment of the impact of our sin on the relationship that we have with God and also how we have treated the grace and mercy that he has shown us. Sorrow, therefore, is to be carried along in the spiritual life as a bridle for the soul which will keep us from falling into sin once again. Granted, this is a very difficult thing for us to understand and embrace. We do everything in our power to alleviate the sorrow tied to sin or to escape it. But in regards to anything that afflicts or affects us on a spiritual level, it becomes the most powerful remedy. Each story this night tells us that we are to care for our passions with medicines that are at odds with them. We must consciously struggle to blot out recollections of the sins we have enjoyed with the corresponding hardships that they have brought.
Yet, in all of this the elders emphasize a kind of freedom in the embrace of a specific practice of penance. Each person is unique and God Who alone searches the depths of the mind and the heart can guide the individual along the path of true healing. There are many paths to this healing and as many remedies as there are human beings. Each person is a mystery, a mystery that only God can grasp. Therefore, our wounds can only be healed by more radically open the mind and the heart to His grace. The ascetical life simply serves as an aid in doing this.
Until next week dear friends . . .
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:19 Daniel Allen: What page and number are we on?
00:23:28 renwitter: PAge 32
00:23:31 renwitter: #4
00:23:37 Daniel Allen: Thank you
00:46:19 Lilly Crystal: Very well said, Father :)
00:56:28 Lilly Crystal: What prayer was that?
00:57:17 Tyler Woloshyn: 6th Prayer Before Holy Communion by St Symeon the New Theologian
01:13:18 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a blessed time folks. Off to Moleben (prayer service) to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
01:15:59 Eric Williams: Their repentance had equal merit, but one of them was a lot happier. I’m a fan of the happy one. ;)
01:19:10 Lilly Crystal: Please keep my Canadian friend, Bill, in your prayers. He’s in the hospital attached to oxygen as of 2 days
01:30:05 Lilly Crystal: There’s never too many books, Father. Just not enough time :)
01:35:00 Nicole’s iPhone: Thank you!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis III, Part I

There are times that it becomes perfectly clear that one is being fed on solid food. Tonight was such a moment. We picked up with Hypothesis Three on “how we should repent”. We heard from St. Isaac the Syrian with whom we are familiar. St.  Isaac begins by teaching us that for every illness, whether of the soul or body the appropriate medicine must be applied. Only then will one be cured. We must apply the appropriate remedy to the passion that afflicts us the most.
St. Isaac gives us two examples this evening of men pierced to the heart with contrition. Both impose upon themselves penances that seem disturbingly severe to modern sensibilities. But it is precisely here that we must suspend judgment and allow ourselves to consider the deeper action at work in the hearts of these men. We must ask the question: Could they ever know the joy of the hand of mercy reaching out to them and lifting them up out of their sin and offering them forgiveness if they first did not experience the depth of sorrow for their sin against love? Having been so cut off from the spiritual tradition and developing such a truncated view of the human person that is often either overly intellectual or psychological, we tend not grasp the wound of sin and the effect that it has upon our relationship with God. We do not see what we have become in Christ; that we are God-bearers and that we have been imbued with His own Spirit that searches the depths of our souls. We have become so isolated from one another that we no longer see the radical solidarity that exists between ourselves and each other in our sin. How can we know anything about either the depth of compunction that arises from a heart that mourns the loss of love and will do anything to regain it or of the beauty and tenderness of the mercy of God that reaches out to touch us and raise us up?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:16 Tyler Woloshyn: This reminds me in many way of the many saints of the east who bore the title, "Fools for Christ" who took on those self-imposed penance to maximize their humility as a witness to those who are indifferent otherwise to the gospel.
00:23:12 carolnypaver: Why does he say “the rule” put him in chains?
00:24:42 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?😀
00:24:58 carolnypaver: 31
00:25:02 Tyler Woloshyn: 30
00:25:04 Tyler Woloshyn: 31
00:25:05 Joseph Muir: Much thanks!
00:30:10 Tyler Woloshyn: When I think of red hot piercing contrition it reminds me of The Great Canon of Saint Andrew of Crete during Great Lent.  Prayerful and very catechetical.
00:53:43 renwitter: Most. Beautiful. Story. Yet. *heart*
01:03:08 Lilly Crystal: Amen!
01:14:34 Lilly Crystal: Yes! It’s so sad here in Toronto!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis II, Part II

This evening we concluded the Hypothesis II of the Evergetinos. The focus is on the remembrance of death. Our mortality is a very powerful lens through which to view our life, our actions and most importantly our relationship with God. God and His love alone endures and it is to this love alone that we must cling. If we sin and turn away from that love then repentance must be our constant companion. In fact, we are told that even our virtue can lead us into sin without repentance. We can begin to imagine that such a virtue has its origin in our asceticism. Such a view of life will not lead us to love God above all things and so hate sin.  It is not enough simply for us to avoid certain behaviors we must develop an aversion to anything that is not God and that does not lead to Him.
In Hypothesis II, the Fathers begin to speak to us about how we should repent. We should grieve in measure with the wrong which we have committed. Otherwise, we will usually fall again into the same net. There is a kind of guile that exist in the human heart when there is an expectation of being able to repent later after having committed a sin a second time.
Finally, discussion ensued about how we are to understand sin. We must be very careful in the distinctions that we make and by which we judge our lives and our behavior. It must not be simply in accord with our own reason and intellect but rather in accord with a standard that has been revealed to us that this judgment is made - the cross of Christ and the self-emptying love that we witnessed there.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:42 renwitter: Hi Eric’s baby! (The wave just killed me)
00:25:48 Eric Williams: His name is Peter Damian. :)
00:31:02 Joseph Muir: Hello, Godson Peter😀❤
00:59:55 Lilly Crystal: You're fine Erick! I'm just as confused lol
01:02:26 Tyler Woloshyn: That whole part of self-emptying brings the term kenosis to mind, where it is always at work with Christ always pouring out His love and graces to us.
01:04:52 renwitter: Maybe the first Eastern Canadian voice ;-) You are not forgotten Wayne :-)
01:07:08 Wayne Mackenzie: Thanks
01:08:43 renwitter: The form the Fathers of the Oratory use is: “God, the Father of mercies,through the death and resurrection of his Sonhas reconciled the world to himselfand sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,and I absolve you from your sinsin the name of the Father, + and of the Son,and of the Holy Spirit.”
01:09:11 Joseph Muir: ❤
01:14:05 Lilly Crystal: Amen! Thank you all so much❤️
01:15:09 carolnypaver: God bless you, Lilly! So glad you’re here!
01:17:39 Tyler Woloshyn: God bless you Father! Have a blessed evening everyone!
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part X and Hypothesis II, Part I

Tonight we concluded Hypothesis I with a story of a bishop who fell into grave sin and scandal. Broken in spirit, he embraces a life of repentance in a monastery, while also seeking to hide his the dignity of his office. However, God reveals to the Abbot of the monastery that the bishop is coming to him. The  abbot recognizes him and tells him that he will follow him wherever he goes to reveal that he is a bishop. The abbot does this not with a morbid delight but rather that the bishop might be fully healed. The very scandal of having fallen from such a lofty position as bishop into grave sin must not be something that he hides.  The fullness of healing can only take place when the fullness of the sin is exposed. He who humbles himself will be exalted. Humbling himself completely, the bishop will not regain the dignity of his office but rather regain something greater - his dignity as a son of God. Again, we see that such repentance is not embraced in isolation from others. The fruit of the bishop’s repentance and its perfection is passed on to others after he dies. Many miracles surrounded his death demonstrating to all the genuineness and the sincerity of us repentance.
Turning then to Hypothesis II, we began considering the importance of keeping before our minds the reality of death. We must do good here and now and not delay until the future. This is not meant to instill fear in the hearts of men but rather to liberate them from the illusion that our life in this world is endless or that we are guaranteed a tomorrow. Grace is to be embraced in the moment. God is to be embraced in the moment. To do so is to experience freedom from the fear and anxiety that so often holds the human heart and in its grip.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:53 Tyler JVW: Holy Transfiguration Monastery has a wonderful Psalter
00:39:02 Eric Williams: I never felt invincible. I was a very odd child. ;)
00:40:14 Joseph Muir: You’re a very odd adult, Eric😉😂
00:42:27 Lilly Vasconcelos: Be nice to Eric, Mr. Muir😂
00:43:40 Lilly Vasconcelos: Yes I feel the same Father🙂
00:45:52 Lilly Vasconcelos: Humans were not made for long periods of solitude, there is so many negative pschological effects if one doesn't have God as the centre of their lives
00:48:52 Tyler JVW: The definite spiritual high after any retreat or catechetical talk in some experiences.
00:52:59 Lilly Vasconcelos: Praying the Divine Office throughout the day helps me feel like Jesus shares my day with me, so that at night it's kinda exciting if we might depart to him❤️ I don't know if that helps, Ren💕
00:55:55 Tyler JVW: The whole Passion Week Troparia, "Behold the Bridegroom comes in the middle of the night" comes to mind.
00:57:57 Eric Williams: Sort of like showing up for the heavenly banquet without the proper garment?
00:58:00 renwitter: Don’t forget your unblemished white wedding garment bathing suit ;-)
00:58:06 renwitter: Ha! Eric get there before me
01:00:28 Joseph Muir: Behold, the Bridegroom is coming in the middle of the night. Blessed is the servant that He shall find awake. But, the one that He shall find neglectful will not be worthy of Him. Beware, therefore, O my soul! Do not fall into a deep slumber, lest you be delivered to death, and the door of the Kingdom be closed on you. Watch, instead, and cry out: Holy, holy, Holy are You, O our God! Through the Theotokos, have mercy on us!
—from bridegroom matins during Holy Week in the Byzantine churches, both Catholic and Orthodox; and also in the mesonyktikon, the liturgical midnight hour
01:01:20 Joseph Muir: Or they get a passing grade, but only after needlessly inducing a panic attack🤣
01:03:31 Lisa Weidner: In response to Ren’s comment on what to do
01:03:36 Joseph Muir: At the risk of spamming these comments, I once broke up with a girl after she told me that she was a diehard fan of the Saw movie franchise
01:03:37 Lilly Vasconcelos: Theotokion from Orthros:You are truly most blessed, O Virgin Mother of God: through the One who was incarnated of You, Hades was chained, Adam revived, the curse wiped out, Eve set free, Death put to death, and we ourselves were brought back to life...
01:03:50 Tyler JVW: It also reminds me of the Byzantine Prayer before bed time:  O Eternal God, King of every creature, Who hast enabled me to attain to this hour, forgive me the sins which I have committed this day by thought, word and deed. Cleanse my humble soul, O Lord, from every defilement of flesh and spirit. Grant me, O Lord, to pass through the sleep of this night in peace, that I may rise from my humble bed and please Thy most Holy Name all the days of my life, vanquishing the enemies both fleshly and bodiless that contend against me. Deliver me from vain thoughts that defile me, O Lord, and from evil desires. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory: of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
01:05:39 Lisa Weidner: prior to going to bed, Sister Theresa Althea Noble speaks of a practice of Memento More- remembering one’s death as part of one’s examination conscience prior to bed- with the gratitude of the day that Fr David mentioned with a review of the day in reference to our judgement with God- how the day would be reflected in that judgement- so living with an awareness of one’s death/ judgement prior to God.
01:08:43 Tyler JVW: Prayer before retiring before bed by St, John of Damascus:  Upon retiring, say this prayer: O Master, Lover of mankind, is this bed to be my coffin, or wilt Thou enlighten my wretched soul with another day? Behold, the coffin lieth before me; behold, death confronteth me. I fear, O Lord, Thy judgment and the endless torments, yet I cease not to do evil. My Lord God, I continually anger Thee, and Thy most pure Mother, and all the Heavenly Hosts, and my Holy Guardian Angel. I know, O Lord, that I am unworthy of Thy love for mankind, but am worthy of every condemnation and torment. But, O Lord, whether I will it or not, save me. For to save a righteous man is no great thing, and to have mercy on the pure is nothing wonderful, for they are worthy of Thy mercy. But on me a sinner, show the wonder of Thy mercy; in this reveal Thy love for mankind, lest my wickedness prevail over Thine ineffable goodness and merciful kindness; and order my life as Thou wilt.
01:10:21 Lilly Vasconcelos: Thanks Father! God bless and good night
01:11:21 Nicole: THANK YOU!!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part IX

We picked up this evening with Hypothesis I which we have been considering over the past month or so. Again the theme is repentance and the avoidance of despair. We have been presented with stories from the Gerontikon which is a collection of the saying of the elders. The focus of the first story we considered tonight was a monk who fell in love with an Egyptian woman. Her father went to a pagan priest and was instructed by a demon through that priest to tell the monk that if he denied God, denied his holy baptism, and rejected his monastic vows then he could marry his daughter.  Yet despite doing all of these things, God did not abandon him. The demon acting through the pagan priest understood this and so told the father to refuse the monk’s request to give his daughter in marriage. At that moment, the monk came to the realization of what he had done and repented with deep sorrow. Turning back to his elder, he was instructed to engage rigorously in a fast for weeks and to ask God for his mercy. Eventually the monk was given a vision of a dove entering into his mouth. At this the elder understood that God had received the monk’s penance and restored him to the life of grace. This tells us something very important about the nature of repentance and far reaching it must be. Our penance cannot be something that has no meaning or value but must be a remedy that heals the wound hat led to the fall in the fall in the first place. We must also seek out the guidance of an elder, like this young monk, who not only can instruct us but also intercede on our behalf before God.
Following this, an elder teaches us that when a person is experienced in asceticism and has built his life on the very things to draw him closer to God, falls from grace, he can return more quickly along the path to holiness because even though his house, as it were, may have been demolished he still has readily available all the materials from which constructed it. A person newly initiated into the spiritual life, however, will not only have to build the house but search for the materials. Both suffered the demolition and distraction brought about by their sin, but the one whose life had long been directed toward God can return with a greater swiftness.
Discussion then ensued about how we understand affliction in light of all the things that we have been talking about in regards to repentance. How does one not fall into despair when afflicted again and again?  It is only when our knowledge of God is no carried tale and no abstract notion but rather the fruit of a relationship of love that we are able to see through the tears in the darkness and find our way into the embrace of the loving God. This is what we must seek to possess ourselves and to which we must guide others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:37:59 Tyler Woloshyn: This reminds me of St. Mary of Egypt's retreat into the wilderness to overcome the passions that surrounded her, yet in that long suffering she overcame it with the greatest ascetism and prayer.
00:38:13 Lilly Vasconcelos: Sin is sin. I dislike the idea of venial vs mortal, just my opinion. We should strive for holiness :)
00:39:33 Tyler Woloshyn: Very Byzantine focus there Lilly.  Categorizations can sometimes complicate the examination of conscience.
00:45:36 Tyler Woloshyn: St. Pachomius of Egypt?
00:46:25 Erick Chastain: Modern-day Egypt, back then it was Thebes
00:47:47 Wayne Mackenzie: It's the rule of Pachomis
00:49:51 Tyler Woloshyn: The Prayer of St. Pachomius at least for the Jesus Prayer sure sets a wonderful template for building a crescendo for praying the Jesus Prayer.
00:50:12 Wayne Mackenzie: yes
00:50:50 Eric Williams: Rule of St. Pachomius: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/stpachomius.htm
00:51:04 Joseph Muir: Thank you, Eric!
00:56:56 carolediclaudio: I’m late- what page are we on? :)
00:58:18 carolnypaver: 25
00:58:26 Wayne Mackenzie: p 25
00:58:28 Tyler Woloshyn: Acedia, which Evagarios of Pontus talks about those 8 passions. Despair being grave.
00:58:28 carolnypaver: bottom
00:58:39 carolediclaudio: Thank you!
01:09:45 Lilly Vasconcelos: Thank you Father David :)
01:10:20 Tyler Woloshyn: Christ is Risen! Thank you for the wonderful explanations and being very welcoming Fr. David.
01:10:24 carolediclaudio: Yes, very beautiful. So sorry was late.
01:11:38 Lilly Vasconcelos: I brought 2 more Canadians
01:11:43 Lilly Vasconcelos: Hahaha
01:11:49 Katharine M: :D
01:11:59 carolediclaudio: Good :)
01:13:45 Sue and  Mark: YES!!!!!!
01:13:58 Erick Chastain: That would be great!
01:14:16 Eric Williams: Maybe “The Way of a Pilgrim”?
01:14:17 Daniel Allen: perfect i won’t have to buy another copy
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part VIII

We continued with our reading of Hypothesis I on “repentance in the avoidance of despair.” After giving us a foundation of many stories of God‘s infinite and boundless mercy, the focus of attention this evening is on the human response to this mercy.  Repentance is not a static reality. Rather, it is a source of protection, a cloak that one wears. We are not meant to simply remain in the sadness of having committed sins, but rather we are to rise and engage in the spiritual warfare that God’s mercy and grace gives us the strength to enter. We are to be combatants. Our weapons are not worldly nor are they rooted in ourselves but rather arise first from the grace of God and manifest themselves in our hearts as humility, obedience, self-sacrificing love, contrition. We are also shown that the impact of repentance is not limited to one person. Repentance when it is deep and true brings about miracles not only in one’s own life but in the lives of those around us. God’s grace and mercy overflows in response to the abundance of tears that an individual sheds on behalf of his sins and the sins of the world. The presence of penitents in the Church strengthens it and gives others who have fallen into sin hope of salvation and conversion of life.
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Text of chat during the group
00:31:48 Eric Williams: PEWSLAG
00:56:07 Eric Williams: The ass saved the ass from himself!
00:58:25 Eric Williams: “Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power. Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground. So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all [the] flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.” - Ephesians 6:10-17
01:03:47 The Pittsburgh Oratory: Erick we lost you.
01:16:38 Eric Williams: “Say: woe is me, alas, O soul, and weep; for thou hast been left and orphan so young by the blameless fathers and righteous ascetics. Where are our fathers? Where are the saints? Where are the vigilant? Where are the sober? Where are the humble? Where are the meek? Where are those who vow silence? Where are the abstinent? Where are those who with a contrite heart stood before the Lord in perfect prayer, like angels of God? They have left here to join our holy God with their lamps brightly burning. Woe is us! What times are these in which we live? Into what sea of evil have we sailed? Our fathers have entered the harbor of life, that they might not see the sorrows and seductions that overcome us because of our sins. They are crowned, yet we slumber; we sleep and indulge in selfish pleasures.” - St Ephraim the Syrian

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part VII

Such beauty! Not only were tonight‘s passages from the Evergetinos memorable - one is compelled to memorize them due to their profundity. They speak to us of the sweetness and the joy that comes to us through repentance and that God desires to give to us. At every turn we are encouraged to be confident and not to be duped by the temptations of the Evil One to ruminate on past sins or to doubt for a moment the God desire to forgive.
We are to be fearless in the face of our own sins and the thoughts from which they arise. To acknowledge them openly is to make them powerless and without weight. To bring them before God and the light of His love is to bring ourselves healing and hope. Immediately, like the father in the story of the prodigal son, God desires to robe us with innocence and restore to us the promise of adoption which the Holy Spirit bestows upon us. God desires to make us partakers of eternal life. In fact, repentance is to be seen as a rebirth from holy mother church who will supply us with nourishment and bring us to a mature faith. With tenderness we are embraced by God who draws us to the maternal breast. As Father he does not desire to punish but rather understands our weakness and likewise seeks to carries us and support us until we are capable of understanding the Evil One’s ways and fighting against them fully.
If we know sorrow because of our sin it should always be paired with the joy; the joy that comes from turning toward God and being restored to that relationship. Despair is the great enemy and we should not wait a moment to return to God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:48:42 Eric Williams: We’re shy about sharing all our thoughts with a wide elder or confessor, but we broadcast them loudly and proudly on social media.
00:49:37 Mary Schott: Lol, true that.
01:05:11 Eric Williams: Just go up to the pulpit and stare ominously in silence. After an uncomfortable period, announce, “Thus ends the lesson” and step down. ;)
01:23:02 D Fraley: Thank you Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part VI

Another beautiful group tonight!  We picked up with Hypothesis I, page 13. Again we are given multiple stories of individuals repenting from sin and turning back to God from states of depravity. The very movement of the mind and the heart brings down upon them a flood of God’s grace and mercy.
What is different in the stories we read tonight is the radical solidarity and empathy that we see in the minds and the hearts of the elders. They approach those in their charge not as masters but as servants; not condescending to them but rather seeing themselves sharing intimately in the sorrows and the woundedness of their sin. The responsibility was theirs’ to weep over these sins and seek to help others overcome them if possible. There is no such thing as an individual Christian; that is, a Christian separated from the body of Christ and from one another. Our own repentance should help to elevate and lift up the Church and the repentance of others can also help raise us up and strengthen us as well. God‘s desire is to heal us, not to punish us. We have lost this sense of the need for healing and understanding that the Church is a hospital and have instead turned the acknowledgment of one sins into a legalistic practice or rather a psychological and emotional release. Consciences can be so hardened - not only among individuals but among whole groups of people - that we can completely lose our way unless God and his great mercy and Providence does something to up-end the illusion. He will do anything to help us overcome what affects and afflicts us. Blessed be God forever.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:02 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in case anyone needs it my brother wrote A Brief Primer on Patristic Greek Anthropology with an Emphasis on the Process of Contemplation and Obstacles to It Very Rev. Andriy Chirovsky, SThD September, 2003     http://tho3306.sheptytskyinstitute.ca/2013/11/27/a-chirovsky-brief-primer-in-theological-anthropology/
00:17:36 carolnypaver: Thank you, Fr. Ivan!
00:18:11 Wayne Mackenzie: I have a copy of this. A good read.
00:51:30 Katharine M: Sorry I forgot to raise my hand, :)
01:07:00 Eric Williams: “Each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.” - GK Chesterton
01:08:53 Lilly Vasconcelos: Russia is definitely spreading Her errors across the world, as Our Blessed Theotokos warned us in Fatima, Portugal

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part V

Tonight we continued our study of Hypothesis I on repentance and the avoidance of despair. Again, we are presented with a number of stories that emphasize the importance of the simple movement of the mind and heart toward God through acknowledging one’s sin. This immediately brings down upon the individual the mercy and the grace of God - no matter when or where it takes place. God who sees the mind and the heart knows the person’s motivation and the depth of the repentance.
One of the things we are warned about is the kind of sorrow that the demons often will place within the human heart to cast us into despair and make us call into question the mercy of God. Again and again the demons put forward the doubt that one has lived too long in sin in order to receive the mercy of God, that they belong to the demons and hell due to the amount of time they spent in their sin.  Yet, repeatedly we hear the angels say that God is the true master of heaven and earth and in his omniscience sees to the depths of a person’s soul. He alone has the right and the capacity to judge. 
We may find ourselves particularly challenged by the fathers’ emphasis upon how our conscience should immediately cease to be troubled the moment that we acknowledge and confess our sins to God. So often it is fear and doubt that allows our sin to cling to us; that it gradually undermines the unconditional love and mercy that God wants to fill us with in order that we might engage others with that same perfect love. It is often one of the great stumbling blocks for us even as men and women of faith to enter into this profound mystery, to let ourselves to be guided by the grace of God to imagine the unimaginable – that His love could so transform us and so free us from the shackles of sin. The darkness that sin brings to the mind and the heart often clouds our vision just enough to throw that all into doubt; making us want to qualify it in one way or another. All the “reasonable” objections immediately come to our hearts and minds and we stumble. The mercy that we are given is meant to free us in every way, from our sin and from every limitation on our capacity to love and give ourselves in love.
 

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part IV

We continued our study tonight by reflecting upon the Fathers’ encouragement to reach out to God in the spirit of repentance. More than anything, the examples that are given, the stories that are told, are meant to help us to avoid despair. We have a God who is set upon our salvation. The mere movement of the mind and the heart towards Him with contrition brings with it a flood of mercy and grace. We are meant to be valiant strugglers; taking hold of the grace that God has given us and the mercy and the forgiveness He has bestowed upon us in order that we might come to experience the full freedom of those have been made sons and daughters of God. The Ascetical life is not simply about self- discipline: it is about love and the fullness of life. Christ is the most beautiful person. In Him we see the fullness of God and the depth of His love.  It is to this beauty that we are called and it is this beauty that we cultivate through the Ascetical life. It is better for us to struggle with our own poverty and sin and experience it truly than to remain in the fearful enslavement of Egypt; that is, bound to the emptiness of sin.
 
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:38 renwitter: Everything he writes is amazing. 100% recommend “Woman and the Salvation of the World.”
00:24:46 Joseph Muir: Is that by the “more contemporary elder” whom Fr David mentioned, Ren?
00:25:10 renwitter: Yep! Evdokimov
00:25:23 Sue mcmillen: was the name?
00:25:41 renwitter: Paul Evdokimov
00:30:48 Joseph Muir: Fr Jeremiah Shyrock, CFR, is his name, if anyone wants to look him up
00:43:05 Anthony Gallagher: my raise hand button is not working :-( trying to raise hand.
00:56:28 Eric Williams: Kids fought over something sharp and the 6yo’s finger got cut badly enough that she’s off to the ER to maybe get stitches (hence my sudden disappearance). What page are we on now?
00:56:54 renwitter: Same one Eric :-D
00:57:09 Eric Williams: 11?!
00:57:16 renwitter: Yepperz
00:57:25 carolnypaver: 11
00:57:49 Michael Liccione: Prayers for your daughter
00:58:30 Eric Williams: Thank you :)
01:14:12 Eric Williams: “All your life you live so close to truth, it becomes a permanent blur in the corner of your eye, and when something nudges it into outline it is like being ambushed by a grotesque.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
01:15:49 James Ellis: Thank you Father!

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part III

We continued our reading of Hypothesis I of the Evergetinos regarding “Repentance and the Avoidance of Despair.”  We are presented with one story after another of someone who finds himself or herself in grave sin; sometimes struggling year after year and yet returning to God with a repentant heart.
Monk Paul, who compiled the text, begins by giving us stories that at first are a reflection upon the nature of repentance itself; from the perspective of those who receive mercy in order to foster confidence in God.  But there’s a gradual and extraordinary progression that takes place in the stories themselves. They take us deeper and deeper into the very heart of God who is set upon the salvation of all and who looks for the smallest movement of repentance in the human heart in order to draw a person back to Him. 
We tend to look upon ourselves and our own sin and the sins of others through the lens of our own intellect and judgment or our malformed consciences. Ultimately the fathers tell us it is only when we begin to look at the mercy of God in light of the Cross and  the precious blood of Christ that was shed on our behalf that we begin to understand. God’s generosity cannot be called into question. Rather, we must humbly allow ourselves to be drawn into the mystery. We must allow God to show us the nature of love and receive it ourselves before we can truly show it to others. May God bless it and make it so!
 
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Text of chat during group:
00:15:41 Joseph Muir: please pray for my friend Lilly in Toronto, who joined us for the past two meetings. She is dealing with some pretty severe health issue (not Covid-related), and isn’t able to join us tonight, unfortunately
00:16:33 Katharine M: Prayers for Lilly
00:19:01 Eric Williams: I was taught “Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without”
00:57:27 Eric Williams: The penitent who sins every day and repents every day reminds me of St. Mark Ji Tianxiang, who was an opium addict who didn’t receive the Eucharist for the last 30 years of his life and died a martyr.
01:17:08 Erick Chastain: strangely enough it was a favorite feast day of Pope John XXIII who convened the 2nd Vatican council
01:28:25 Sharon: I realize we need to wrap up, but the themes of toleration and boundaries keep coming up within my circle. The devil uses the word “tolerate” instead of “love.” And more and more people are encouraged to create boundaries. I just wonder how we can be truly seeking conversion of heart and unity with God if we are spending our time and energy just tolerating people and building boundaries.

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part II

What an extraordinary reading!  We’ve been considering Hypothesis I about repentance and not falling into despair. Tonight we began with the writing from the life of St. Synkletike. She’s one of the Desert Mothers and considered by many as equal to Saint Anthony the Great. The counsel she offers is psychologically subtle and spiritually beautiful. She encourages us always to support others, especially neophytes, and encourage them in the struggle for the good. No matter how small their virtues deeds might seem we must lift them up and praise them in order to encourage them in the spiritual battle. Likewise, no matter how great a fault may be we must, in front of them, treat it as though it is the least an on worthy of note. The evil one wishes to destroy their efforts and so we must in every way lift them up and encourage them to continue. God‘s compassion and mercy is unlimited and she gives us multiple examples from the Scriptures to remind us: Saint Paul Rahab the prostitute from the Old Testament, and St. Matthew the tax collector. In all of these we see the worth of repentance and the compassion of God towards the repentant man.
Those who struggle with pride God himself will prune so they do not begin to attribute their growth and virtue to themselves. He will humble them in order that they might continue to cling to Him and to His grace.
Next, the holy Palladios recounts for us the story of Saint Moses the Ethiopian. We see in him how the passion of anger unchecked and murderous in its nature and conduct can be transformed by the gift of repentance. After a violent existence, Moses was moved to contrition and the incensive faculty within him redirected the anger towards sin and drove him in the ascetical life to war against the demons. He became so virtuous that he rivaled even those elders of Skete. By the time he died, there were 70 disciples who joined him, many of whom were his fellow former criminals.
All of this is meant to lead us to set aside the judgments of our own reason when it comes to love, compassion, and mercy. We are called to imitate God who, while we were still enemies, had mercy upon us and gave us His only begotten Son.
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00:21:02 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2017/01/05/100099-venerable-syncletica-of-alexandria
00:22:25 Eric Williams: sin-kle-ti-kee (not sure which syllable gets emphasis; Fr Ivan?)
00:23:00 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St Nikolai Velimirovich's Prologue of Ohrid: Syncletica was of Macedonian descent. She was educated in Alexandria. As a wealthy and distinguished maiden she had many suitors, but she rejected them all and fled from her parents' home to a convent. In great self-restraint, vigil and prayer, Syncletica lived to her eightieth year. Her counsels to the nuns have always been considered true spiritual pearls, for this righteous one did not attain the heights of wisdom through books but through sufferings, pains, daily and nightly contemplation, and spiritual communication with the higher world of the Divine. Her soul took up its habitation in that higher world in the year 350 A.D. Among other things, St. Syncletica was known to say: "If it is the season for fasting, do not dismiss fasting, claiming illness, for behold, even those who do not fast succumb to the same illness." She further said: "As a treasure, when uncovered, is quickly seized, ….
00:23:03 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: so it is with virtue: when it is made public it becomes eclipsed and is lost."
00:23:55 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: her feast is Jan 5 in the Byzantine calendar
00:26:16 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The Life and Conduct of the HOLY AND BLESSED TEACHER SYNKLETIKE by St. Athanasios the Great was published in English in 2015.
00:29:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Σύγκλητος means “senate” or “assembly”; hence, the name Συγκλητική denotes what is “senatorial” or “noble”; in this instance, a noble in the “heavenly assembly” of Saints.  The accent is on the last syllable in Greek: syn-klee-ti-KEE.  In English it is "Syncletica".
00:43:21 Joseph Muir: tax collectors are still hated today😂
00:49:23 Ren Witter: I would stay on video and be social, but I am eating dinner and I’m a slob :-D
00:49:29 Katharine: :D
00:50:01 carolediclaudio: :):)
00:58:51 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: skete or sketis is defined on pg. 425 in glossary
01:09:10 Andres Mason: he is pretty cool 
01:09:14 Andres Mason: straightforward 
01:14:28 Joseph Muir: I emphatically recommend backpacking, particularly of a long-distance variety😀
01:21:31 Eric Williams: “Therefore it is the paradox of history that each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.” - GK Chesterton
01:21:48 Joseph Muir: ❤
01:24:16 Lilly Vasconcelos: @Joseph When the US/CA border opens, sign me up for hiking retreat with Franciscans 🙏
01:29:57 Lilly Vasconcelos: Bon nuit, merci
01:30:11 Micah Valine: Thank you

The Evergetinos - Vol. I, Hypothesis I, Part I

With great joy we began our study of the Evergetinos after years of waiting and preparation. This collection of the writings and the lives of the desert monks has been a rich source of spiritual nourishment for Eastern Christians for centuries - and is meant for all who pursue the life of Orthodoxy - who pursue “right glory”.  Providentially, we live in a time when this work has become available to us in English and so accessible as never before. In an age that knows very few spiritual elders it offers great comfort to be able to sit at the feet of those who were icons and remain icons of Christ and the life of the gospel in its fullness. We began with Hypothesis number 1.  Our study begins with Repentance, as does the spiritual life. We are presented with the image of a young man who had lived a dissolute life. When he comes to recognize the horror of it in the light of truth, his heart is filled with compunction and he groans from his depths. He leaves the world and begins to live in the tombs where he can embrace the life of repentance unceasingly. As he embraces this movement of grace within him, he is immediately attacked by demons who seek to dissuade him from taking this path. When unable to do so, they physically assault him and encourage his family members to come and to try to take him home. He will not be moved and so the demons eventually acknowledge that they have been conquered and that his repentance and heart are true. We are told that he remains in the tomb and makes it his hermitage for the rest of his life. Repentance is an unending reality for us and the greater our sin the greater our desire for it and protection of it must become. As we enter into the holy season of Lent we are called to imitate this young man by being single-hearted in our purpose. Lent is not simply for 40 days but rather the beginning of greater conversion and abandoning our life to Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:41 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: LOL
00:40:30 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: John 17:24     24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. In biblical Greek the meaning of the word "doxa" was "glory".  Only quite a few centuries later did the word acquire additional meaning of "doctrine/faith" or "worship". That meaning did not exist when the holy apostle and evangelist John wrote his Gospel.
00:41:43 Eric Williams: Someone created a filter for Facebook, so you can virtually put an ash cross on your profile picture’s forehead. #AshTag2021 *sigh*
00:41:48 Ren Witter: I’m actually anticipating that the lines will be a lot shorter since the ashes will not be visible.
00:42:14 Ren Witter: Why do something if you can’t post about it? ;-)
00:42:19 Joseph Muir: #ashwednesdayselfie🙄    a trend amongst many in the western church that I would love to see fizzle out and die
00:46:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The wages of repentance are mercy and forgiveness unto everlasting life and so Byzantines (on the Gregorian calendar) "distributed" forgiveness upon one another, on the eve of beginning the Great Fast of Lent (yesterday evening).
00:54:20 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Jesus: "In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world" (Jn. 16:33). Holy chief apostle Paul: to the Romans:  "we rejoice in our  sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured  into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us"  (Rom. 5: 3-5). Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of  witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb. 12:1-2)
00:55:03 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: "This is the great work of a man: always to take the blame for his own sins before God and to expect temptation to his last breath." … "Whoever has not experienced temptation cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven," adding the words often quoted in the Christian spiritual tradition, "without temptations no one can be saved.“  (St. Antony the Great in a letter to St. Peomen)
00:55:13 Lilly: Matthew 16:24-26
00:55:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: As often as you find your way to be peaceful, without variations, be suspicious. For you are deviating from the divine ways trodden by the weary footsteps of the saints.  The more you proceed on the way towards the city of the kingdom and approach its neighborhood, this will be the sign: you will meet hard temptations. And the nearer you approach, the more difficulties you will find. The hard temptations into which God brings the soul are in accordance with the greatness of His gifts. If there is a weak soul which is not able to bear a very hard temptation and God deals meekly with it, then know that it is not capable of bearing a hard temptation and so is not worthy either of a great gift.   (St. Isaac the Syrian)
00:56:58 Lilly: Amen
00:59:10 Ren Witter: My favorite response to the demon’s questions comes from Saint Ephraim: “Do not lose heart, O soul, do not grieve; pronounce not over thyself a final judgement for the multitude of thy sins; do not commit thyself to fire; do not say: the Lord has cast me from His face. Such words are not pleasing to God. Can it be that he who has fallen cannot get up? Can it be that he who has turned away cannot turn back again? Dost thou not hear how kind the Father is to a prodigal? Do not be ashamed to turn back and say boldly: I will arise and go to my Father. Arise and go!. . .
00:59:19 Ren Witter: . . .  He will accept thee and will not reproach thee, but rather rejoice at thy return. He awaits thee; just do not be ashamed and do not hide from the face of God as did Adam. It was for thy sake that Christ was crucified; so will He cast thee aside? He knows who oppresses us. He knows that we have no other help but Him alone. Christ knows that man is miserable. Do not give thyself up to despair and apathy, assuming that thou hast been prepared fro the fire. Christ derives no consolation from thrusting us into the fire; He gains nothing if He sends us into the abyss to be tormented. Imitate the prodigal son: heave the city that starves thee. Come and beseech Him and thou shalt behold the glory of God. Thy face shall be enlightened and thou wilt rejoice in the sweetness of paradise. Glory to the Lord and Lover of mankind Who saves us! “
01:06:24 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: sorry, I forgot to finish the St Isaac quote.  here is the rest....      “God never gives a large gift and small temptations. So temptations are to be classed in accordance with gifts.  Thus from the hardships you are called to endure you may understand the measure of the greatness which your soul has reached. And your comfort will be in proportion to your endurance. .” “In accordance with your humility you will be given endurance in your distress. And in accordance with your endurance its weight will be lifted from your soul and you will be comforted in your troubles. And in accordance with your comfort, your love of God will increase. And in accordance with your love, your spiritual joy will increase.”  “When our compassionate Father is of the will to relieve those who are real children in their temptations, He does  not take their temptations away from them, but He imparts to them endurance under temptations, and all that good which they receive through it, to the perfection of their souls.
01:06:28 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: May Christ in His grace make us worthy of bearing evils for the sake of His love, with thanksgivings in the heart. Amen.”
01:15:50 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Recently Ukrainian biblical scholar Taras Tymo has been posting videos on youtube explaining the psalms.  in his commentary on Ps. 50 he reminds his viewers that In Ps 50, "blot out" is the same Greek word as the one used for cleaning old text off of lambskin to make it ready for new text to be written on it, a somewhat brutal process; and, "wash me" means to clean by beating with or against stones.  So repentance is not "ouchless".
01:18:28 Andres Mason: I thought more of a "never left the state of repentance"
01:18:43 Lilly: Does the tomb represent the Sacrament of Confession?
01:20:21 Andres Mason: eventually he will come out of the tomb our resurrection is just delayed 
01:21:48 Ren Witter: It actually reminds me of Saint Isaac: “In this life there is no Sabbath.” No rest from repentance.
01:22:28 Andres Mason: The tomb is not negative 
01:22:34 Andres Mason: anymore*
01:26:28 Lilly: Gracias hermanos
01:27:30 Micah Valine: Thank you
01:27:55 carolnypaver: Thank you, Father!
01:28:14 Joseph Muir: shookran, Abouna!