Philokalia Ministries

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture Three: Interiorized Monasticism Part III: Chastity and Obedience

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIV: On Gluttony, Part I

Tonight we picked up with Step, 14 on “that clamorous mistress, the stomach“. Climacus begins to draw us into a discussion of one of the most important and neglected spiritual practices - fasting and the struggle with gluttony. 
This is a struggle, Saint John tells us, that remains with us through our entire life. Our desire for food or our misuse of food is something that is part of the very fabric of our life. It is a bodily appetite. Not unlike other appetites, it must be ordered toward the good or in the way that is in accord with the wisdom of God. 
Yet, John tells us, gluttony is hypocrisy of the stomach. In a sense it deceives us. Even when we are filled, it tells us that we are empty, and even when we are bursting, it “cries out that it is hungry.“.  It also leads us to devise seasonings, and sweet and rich dishes. The moment that we think that we have control of it, it shows itself in another area of our life. Unchecked, it leads to something even more serious - fornication. If we do not order this basic appetite for food, then we are going to be disordered and the use of our other bodily appetites, including our sexual appetite. And so, St. John tells us that he who coddles the body makes it wilder.  If we do not control it, then it will overcome us. 
If we are self-aware, we know we eat for many different reasons. On an emotional level, we often eat to console ourselves or because we are feeling aggressive or anxiety. We distract ourselves and deal with feelings of emptiness by filling our bodies with food. There are many ways that we convince ourselves that restraining ourselves is inappropriate. For example, we tell ourselves that hospitality demands that we break our fasting practices. Rather than being honest with ourselves and others, we freely let go of these disciplines, not out of love for others but to satisfy our baser needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Bonnie Lewis: I agree wholeheartedly!
 
00:15:46 Bonnie Lewis: Let's do it.
 
00:16:35 CMoran: Was it Rod Dreher?
 
00:36:57 Anthony: On Fasting, I recall sayings from people like St. Paisios to the effect that we live like pagans since we neglect prayer and fasting.  I wonder if there is an inverse correlation between a failure to fast and pray and the increased use of unwholesome images.
 
00:38:05 Jeff O.: Is there a reason or importance in the way Climacus orders anger and acedia before gluttony/fornication/greed etc on the ladder? I just find it interesting the order of things and the way he presents the vices
 
00:42:30 David Swiderski: What is the best practice in fasting. I fasted with a Syrian roommate a couple years he for Ramadan me for Lent. The hardest was no water all day which could be dangerous. What was strange most Muslims gain weight and have huge feasts every night and before the sunrose would drink juices to excess.
 
00:53:24 Anthony: I was talking about Easter Grain pie within the last 90 minutes....
 
00:56:49 Eric Ewanco: If we go over to someone's house during a fasting/abstinence period, how should we handle this if they plan food that breaks the discipline?
 
00:57:07 angelo: Reacted to "If we go over to som..." with 👍
 
00:58:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Well, our Lord did tell us to not appear to be fasting. 🙂
 
00:58:37 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Well, our Lord did t..." with 👏🏻
 
01:01:08 Ambrose Little, OP: “When you give, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” There does seem to be an impetus to “hide” our discipline and good works, to avoid pride.
 
01:01:14 Bonnie Lewis: excellent Father
 
01:01:17 Brad Smith: Your reference to hospitality as an excuse for gluttony seems the height of fornication (paragraph 1) as it is essentially to use the other person as a means to our own ends; gluttony is to misuse God’s good creation for our self-centered ends. Yes?
 
01:02:07 Brad Smith: I meant paragraph 5…Brad
 
01:02:07 Ambrose Little, OP: So we can’t win. LOL
 
01:04:37 CMoran: A few of my casual Catholic friends think that no meat on Friday has been done away with after the reforms.
 
01:05:43 CMoran: Not even knowing that some other penance is required.
 
01:08:28 Helena Babington Guiles: He who is in us is greater than he who is  in the world…and when we commune with Him within, His  nourishment exceeds any other.
 
01:10:49 Ren Witter: I am going to someone’s house for dinner tomorrow, and they already know I am vegetarian so I was going to just go and eat what was there, but I literally just texted them to say I can’t have eggs or cheese 😄. It makes me feel strangely anxious 🤣 I also told them to blame Father David 😄
 
01:11:09 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "I am going to someon..." with 😂
 
01:11:20 angelo: can we replace fasting with good works? This was my experience years ago when I was aspirant in a religious community.
 
01:14:07 Eric Ewanco: You can't "beat your body and make it your slave" (St. Paul) by doing good works
 
01:14:13 carol nypaver: We should not make others “suffer” because of our sacrifices. Right?
 
01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I thought that the recommendation for a fast day was two small meals OR one large one, is that what you meant?
 
01:16:18 Debra: I gave up coffee on Lent...and my family suffered lol
 
01:17:16 Eric Ewanco: @rebecca the requirement is one meal, and up to two smaller meals not adding up to another meal as needed to maintain your strength
 
01:17:18 Ren Witter: Replying to "I thought that the r..."
 
In the Latin Rite the official rule is “one large meal, and two small meals that do not together equal one large meal” and yes, its pretty lame :-D
 
01:17:25 Ren Witter: Reacted to "@rebecca the require..." with 👍
 
01:17:49 carol nypaver: When I have to prepare a meal for someone who is “wheat-free,” meat-free, dairy-free makes me not want to host them.  They don’t have allergies, just sacrificing these things.  That makes me “suffer."
 
01:17:58 Bonnie Lewis: No, don't Father.  Amen
 
01:18:25 Rebecca Thérèse: @Ren thanks
 
01:20:05 Ambrose Little, OP: Here’s the USCCB on the topic: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence  
 
The focus seems to be about internalizing and owning our asceticism (as Christian adults) rather than having it spoon fed to us in a one-size-fits-all approach. But the important part of the message seems to have been lost on many.
 
01:21:05 Eric Ewanco: "many" is an understatement
 
01:21:30 Bonnie Lewis: I never hear this spoken on from the pulpit.
 
01:22:17 Ren Witter: Replying to "When I have to prepa..."
 
Its actually a pretty reasonable thought - “don’t host them” when I think about it. If I had friends, and they were strictly kosher for instance, it would be basically impossible for me to host them because I don’t know how to cook that way. At that point, its better if we go to a kosher restaurant, or if I simply go to their home and play with the kids while they cook.
 
01:22:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:26 CMoran: Thank you Father...excellent session...most
necessary for me!
 
01:23:35 angelo: Thank you
 
01:23:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:23:44 Debra: Thank you Father! This was really good!
 
01:23:47 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:25:02 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVIII

As we move more deeply into the first volume of the Evergetinos - reading hypothesis 38 - we find ourselves also being drawn more deeply into the mystery of humility and obedience. The wisdom of God, revealed in our Lord through his incarnation and through the Paschal mystery, shows us the vulnerability of divine love and humility. For the love of us Christ empties himself, becomes a slave and obedient unto death on the cross. It is upon him that we must fix our gaze if we are not to be drawn into the illusions of pride. 
Religious people are not above having their own delusions; including and especially the delusion of holiness. We hold on to the demands of our ego. Pride rules our will.  Thus, we were given multiple stories this evening of God in his providence guiding souls along a path He desires and presenting them with circumstances that unexpectedly revealed to them these greater truths. There is so much of us that is prideful that we are often blind to the humble ways that God comes to us and reject those through whom He speaks to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 314 letter C
 
00:23:57 Anthony: Is this the concept of "doing Purgatory" now so you don't have to go to Purgatory later?
 
00:39:57 Anthony: On preaching the gospel, among "Evangelicals," there is an emphasis of calling someone to recognize their sin and "accept Christ."  That doesn't seem to be the Catholic tradition, is it?  In the Bible it seems only prophets did that and we are not prophets.
 
00:47:24 Eric Ewanco: think you missed a paragraph?
 
01:13:16 Anthony: This so goes against modern education.  The intellect is separated from morals and we are taught to set ourselves up as judges
 
01:17:04 Anthony: "you have many teachers but not many fathers"
 

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture Two: Interiorized Monasticism Part II: Fundamental Principles

INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM PART II FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS
• Prayer• Eschatological Maximalism• Evangelical Counsels as Seen through Three Temptations of Christ in the Desert:
1. Poverty
Next Week:
Chastity: the Sacredness of Creation and the Virginity of Heart that Should Belong to All
Obedience to God: Receptivity to the Spirit of Truth and the Creative Freedom of the Life of Grace.

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XIII: On Despondency

How do we talk about and understand despondency? I never heard about the word or the nature of the vice until I was in my 20s and after having read the fathers. And yet we hear from the fathers that it is the greatest and gravest of the eight capital vices. It afflicts the soul in such a way that it draws it into darkness. The soul loses its capacity to see the presence of God or to love the things of God. It becomes most dangerous when we are engaged in the spiritual life in isolation; either as those who live the life of a hermit, or as those who see the spiritual life as a private affair.  We live in a radical solidarity with each other, and with God. Our understanding of this, and our embrace of that reality may be the one thing that keeps us from falling into a general death. 
This demon uses the most subtle forms of temptation to make us lax in our spiritual practice or come to despise it all together. There are very few remedies for it for this reason. One must remember death and the brevity of our life. We must understand that we are in the end times and see the urgency of the moment. We must also cling to obedience; placing our thoughts before another and allow them to guide us when we cannot see the path before us. 
Prayer filled with hope, St. John tells us, is the only thing that brings this vice to utter death. Only when we cling to He who is life and love and hope and let go of the illusion that we can simply endure the spiritual trials of this world on our own will this vice be conquered. But once it is conquered, a person has come to experience all that is good; they are prepared for every spiritual battle that lies ahead.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:17 David: Question on translation: Acedia wouldn't this be closer to insouciant or melancholy rather than despondency?
 
00:35:37 Daniel Allen: Despondency is a child of talkativeness but community life is opposed to it? That seems sort of contradictory.
 
00:37:21 Anthony: The spirit of despondency also perverts a concept of what it means to be "elect": I am the only true one, everyone is against me."  That's not a good place to be.
 
00:37:51 Daniel Allen: As a follow up it seems that despondency is always a lurking threat.
 
00:38:32 Daniel Allen: Ok that clears it up thank you
 
00:41:21 Cindy Moran: Noonday Devil from Ps 90:6 [DRV]
 
00:43:22 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Also, many monks would not eat before 3 pm so beginning around midday hunger and hungers may start.
 
00:46:55 Anthony: The dinner bell represents hope that suffering will end.
 
00:59:02 Kathy: What do you mean by deification?
 
01:00:26 Eric Ewanco: Deification is become by grace what Christ was by nature -- becoming God-like, sharing in the divinity of Christ as he shared in our humanity, being partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4)
 
01:01:26 Anthony: A great Roman Catholic imagery / interpretation of deification is in Dante's "Paradiso," especially the later cantos.
 
01:02:14 Kathy: Thanks
 
01:06:45 Daniel Allen: St Therese - “May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be.”
 
01:06:59 Kristen Brotemarkle: beautiful quote, thanks for sharing that. ^
 
01:09:55 Liz: Sorry, what´s the name of the author Father is talking
about?
 
01:10:26 Anthony: Paul Evdekimov
 
01:10:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Paul Evdokimov
 
01:10:35 Liz: Thank you!!!
 
01:18:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Gender equality. Very modern.
 
01:20:56 Jeff O.: It seems like despondency (and gluttony as well) have a tendency or propensity to draw us towards numbing…which, paired with the nature of our culture which attempts to provide numbing or comforting in all things seems like an almost double whammy of sorts…
 
01:21:34 Anthony: Reacted to "It seems like desp..." with 👍
 
01:24:21 Kristen Brotemarkle: Reacted to "It seems like despon..." with 👍
 
01:37:38 Art: Got me too!
 
01:38:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:38:53 Rodrigo Castillo: That is a great idea!  The forum!
 
01:39:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...rich teaching tonight.
 
01:39:57 Jeff O.: This was great! Thank you.
 
01:40:07 David: Thank you father!
 

The Evergetinos, Hypothesis XXXVII

How does one approach something such as grumbling and murmuring against others, or complaining about what our judgment and sensibilities react to negatively in our lives? How is it that we suspend that judgment? Beyond this, how is it that we let it go all together and allow ourselves to be drawn along in the darkness of faith; where God alone illuminates the path before us to draw us into the truth and the love of the kingdom? 
 
The short answer to all of these questions is: through experience. Only God can reveal to the human heart that has the faith, perhaps only the size of a mustard seed, the depths of His mind and His truth. The greatest miracle, if you will, is to move the mountain of our ego and self-esteem. Our passions make it so difficult to keep our focus solely upon God, upon his love, and upon the truth that is being revealed to us. 
 
These stories are not about disciples being slavishly obedient to their masters no matter what the circumstances. In fact, the stories given to us tonight were how novices and disciples, who were pure of heart, were able to see the truth with clarity and bring about the conversion of their Elders who had lost their way. The stories are presented to us in order that we would not be tempted into condescension. We must understand that God can reprove us and correct us in the most unexpected of ways. What these hypotheses (36 & 37) reveal to us is the preeminence of humility and love. Age, experience or depth of discipline are no guarantee that we will see the truth or embrace it. May God have mercy and illuminate our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 309
 
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: On Grumbling :-)
 
00:33:19 Eric Ewanco: In terms of grumbling, I was listening today to a podcast on joy and the speaker pointed out that the early Christians did not even complain about Nero (who took Christians, covered them with tar, and lit them to shed light on his parties), but kept their focus on God and their own faith, and cultivating joy in the midst of persecution. A good lesson for us today in the hostile environment we live in where Christians tend to get distracted by their grumbling over the circumstances.
 
00:48:21 Eric Ewanco: Doesn't this just contradict everything we've heard previously about the value and importance of unalloyed obedience?
 
01:16:26 Anthony: "Father David, Build My Church, which you can see is in ruins"?
 
01:19:56 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like the habit of humility teaches us to see more clearly. Humility as “true self knowledge,” but with that practice of patience with yourself and with others, not jumping to conclusions and avoiding rashly adopting opinions of others. You give yourself time and suppress the passions that can interfere with being open to seeing things as they really are. So that practice of humble obedience is at least in part what helps us to see more clearly when it might be right to not obey—or at least not obey in particulars in order to be obedient in a a deeper way, as with that disciple tonight.
 

Repentance

I have one word for tonight‘s group: Beautiful! Repentance “brings to us the power of the living God, revealing once again, the true Christ Jesus who dwells in us.” As with so many aspects of the faith, we have a tendency to compartmentalize not only the practice of virtue or of prayer but of our relationship with God as a whole. Yet our faith and our relationship with God should touch the very fabric of our beings and shape the essence of every relationship and every work that we engage in throughout the course of our lives. It should shape also our experience of death and our realization of our own mortality. Repentance is not an episodic reality but a continual effort, the continual straining of the heart - reaching out to God to experience his love and mercy. In this sense it is the most important of things.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:18 sue and mark: microphone is not working
 
00:08:33 Ren Witter: PDF Handout: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/34558acb-864f-f9f8-1546-e7decdc9605b/Repentance.pdf
 
00:34:44 charlesevers: What gets us (causes) trapped into thinking of past sins?
 
00:34:55 Irene Bridget Hutchinson: Fr, how would a scrupulous person go about being constantly repentant with peace of soul?
 
00:44:00 David: The past few years I have also focused on taking time in prayer and adoration to express gratitude and thanksgiving. Isn't it equality important to give thanks as to deepen repentance. No amount of regret changes the past, no amount of worry will change the future but any gratitude will change the present.
 
00:50:52 charlesevers: Very good. Thank you Father.  Excellent explanation.
 
00:55:37 charlesevers: St. Bonaventure wrote a colloquay
 
01:12:54 Rachel : Yes. Only true Beauty. Most,. I include myself, can tend to misuse t|
 
01:21:53 Missi White: That's a tough pill to swallow, especially in what has become such a narcissistic culture.  How I needed this conference, thank you!
 
01:24:26 Art: Helpful reminder for me at times: But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12-13)
 
01:25:21 Bonnie Lewis: I have found that when I pray for someone who is causing me to harbor a resentment toward them, I am the one who changes internally.  The other person may remain exactly how they were, yet I have received a peace of mind and thought toward them.  This doesn't happen overnight.  sometimes it takes some time.
 
01:36:29 Rachel : Who wrote the book? A continual effort. With no temptation or battle a soldier is not made stronger through resisting. St. Faustina, and  St Therese had clear experiences of people who tried their patience. They felt the irritation. Its not like the new lens that Father is speaking of will mean that somone will not need to actively practice patience but that the life of repentence, living constantly in the presence of God, in Truth, the person "drunk with compunction" just simply cannot not forgive when they see who they really are in Christ and the dignity of others as well. All mankind seen through the lens of love
 
01:37:12 Rachel : This book should be gone through very slowly.
 
01:41:33 Rachel : I think Ren mentioned that this past year in a group! I need to get that book.
 
01:44:13 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David.  This was beautiful.
 
01:44:15 David: Thank you Father!
 
01:44:27 charlesevers: Thank you Father.  This was wonderful
 
01:44:30 Lori Hatala: so very helpful.
 
01:44:31 Rachel : lol
 
01:44:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:44:32 Melissa Kummerow: Yes thank you! I like the occasional "bonus" groups :)
 
01:44:34 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:45:17 Rachel : Thank you
 
01:45:18 Lorraine Green: Thank you
 
01:45:26 Cindy Moran: I hope Father's talj will be available for what I missed.
 
01:45:27 Rachel : Praying for you
 
01:45:31 Mary Jo: Thank you !!
 
01:45:31 Mitch: Very profound. Thankyou Father take care
 

City a Desert Lecture Series, Lecture One: Introduction to Interiorized Monasticism

INTRODUCTION TO INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM
Interiorized Monasticism and Ascetic Ideal:• Obscured: Out of reach to majority.• Revealed: Fundamental principle of life in Christ.
Eschatological Dimensions:
Obscured: Life cut off from the world or world cut off
from life of the kingdom.
Revealed: Incarnation and kingdom of God present;
Kingdom within through gift of the Spirit (active eschatology, touching every aspect of the world; living now in light of the End).
Beauty Saves the World:
Obscured: Culture as cult, autonomous from God and
guided by sensibilities of the age.
Revealed: Rediscovery of culture through the beauty
of holiness. Jesus is the Holy One - the most beautiful of the sons of men. He is the perfect icon, manifesting God unveiled.
The Monastic Ideal:
Obscured: Return to the ancient forms of monastic
ascesis.
Revealed: Internalized. The human psyche is renewed
from within.
Five Fundamental Elements of Interiorized Monasticism (Upcoming Lectures):
• Prayer• Eschatological Maximalism • Poverty• Chastity• Obedience

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XII: On Lying

Tonight we read Step number 12 on Lying. Surprisingly this has always been a challenging step to read and to read as a group. Immediately our minds begin to swirl with the costs of loving the Truth and understanding that Truth is a person. Our starting point in such discussions is often examples that are extreme; things or circumstances that people might face within this life where lying might be justified. St. John addresses this and much more within the step. However, one has to be willing to suspend judgment and allow St. John to guide us along a path that deepens our sensitivity in regards to the Truth as a whole. Our starting point must be Christ. We must begin to understand that lying is a sin against charity, and to lie when making a vow or an oath is a denial of God himself. St. John understands very well that the Evil One can use something as innocent and enjoyable as humor to justify and to legitimize lying.  Yet, John tells us that there are no small lies and once spoken they have an effect upon ourselves and others. They diminish the spirit of mourning; that is, compunction within the human heart. In doing so they distract us from the remembrance of God and the things of God. We must remember that God has given us a conscience, a means of knowing the truth with Him. This is what we must form through the gospel and through our participation in the life of Christ. We must also remember that the Evil One is the Father of Lies and will use a lie under the pretext of protecting others. In the face of this, St. John tells us, “when we are completely cleansed of lying, then we can resort to it, but only with fear and as occasion demands.” Only when the heart has been completely purified, where there is no love of falsehood and where there is the presence of great discernment, can such a decision be made. To love truth, St. John tells us, is the root of every good because it is to love Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:04 Anthony Rago: I've also been thinking that our bodies and societies are parables of truth; and we can be lying by engaging in bad lifestyles.
 
00:37:35 Anthony Rago: I can imagine a confessor becoming very exasperated if we treat all this as confessable sins; and it would be very wearing on all of us.
 
00:39:28 David Swiderski: Like many other things isn't discernment take a place here. Is this so people will think I am funny (pride), will this hurt someone, will it erode trust (the cost of lies) or lead to a habit?
 
00:39:39 Anthony Rago: That makes sense, thanks
 
00:40:57 Cindy Moran: Corrie ten Boom  lied to the Nazis when they asked if jews were in the house. This is ok?
 
00:44:09 Ren Witter: I feel like this is a really hard one. Intellectually, I actually feel like it is easy to understand. Emotionally, it kind of feels like one of those instances where being Christian can feel like a “kill-joy” to put it in a light way. Maybe the immense anxiety I feel in response to this is coming from the fear that being a Christian means no joy or every-day happiness. Its weird because I know that that isn’t true, but sometimes it can be hard to reconcile the lived experience of Christianity with the things the Fathers write.
 
00:46:34 Debra: Replying to "Corrie ten Boom  lie..."
 
I've read a priest's response to this, is Yes, it's ok; because the Nazis didn't have a right to what's going on in their home
That we have dignity, and a right to privacy
 
I'm interested to hear what Fr Abernethy says 😄
 
00:55:06 Anthony Rago: With humor - movies, comedy routines, Facebook - it is easy to go along, and then the story teller sneaks in covert of blatant evil things, and "bam," there they are in the head, coming to mind in an ambush when they are most unwelcome.
 
01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Ok so this may be making a little more sense to me. If the concern is with Truth, and Truth is a person, then we can have a tendency to come between Truth and another person (between the other and his remembrance of Truth Himself), which sort of reminds me of two parts of the Gospel - better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause the fall of one of these little ones, and also, what God has joined let no man divide. Neither are traditionally applied to this type of thought, but if by our jesting, and always (or often) making light of things we can get between a person and his remembrance of God (or mourning), then in a way we are doing just that on a spiritual level, dividing the person from his remembrance of God. We can (generally unintentionally) get between God and another person, and generally to pump up our own ego. The lying part makes sense, it’s the joking that’s hard to get.
 
01:11:37 Jacqulyn: Proverbs 26:18-19 - Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death is one who deceives their neighbor and says, "I was only joking."
 
01:15:40 Debra: Cindy Moran, up above, asked about that very point
 
01:20:23 David Swiderski: The trap of whataboutism deflects from a general truth
 
01:23:09 Bonnie Lewis: So I will only be finally cleansed in Purgatory?
 
01:23:49 Debra: In vino veritas
 
01:24:08 Anthony Rago: Greek Text of this chapter is here: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BE/%CE%9B%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%99%CE%92
I can barely read Greek and can't now locate the word "torture."
 
01:25:16 Ambrose Little, OP: About being jovial, I have a fondness for this part of St. Thomas Aquinas’ prayer “for ordering a life wisely” (notably the last three lines):
 
O Lord my God, make me
          submissive without protest,
          poor without discouragement,
          chaste without regret,
          patient without complaint,
          humble without posturing,
          cheerful without frivolity,
          mature without gloom,
          and quick-witted without flippancy.
 
Being dour and scolding is not good, neither is flippancy and frivolity. Cheerfulness is a good thing within measure.
 
01:25:32 Anthony Rago: "agoneia"
 
01:25:49 Debra: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:25:50 Daniel Allen: I think one thing I take from this is that I often don’t consider the significance of my own words, and that words have greater significance than generally thought
 
01:26:08 carol nypaver: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️
 
01:26:09 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "About being jovial, …" with 🔥
 
01:26:25 Cath Lamb: Reacted to "I think one thing I ..." with ❤️
 
01:27:19 Anthony Rago: Reacted to "About being jovial..." with ❤️
 
01:27:21 Cath Lamb: Thank you!
 
01:27:27 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father
 
01:27:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:27:42 Art: Thank you!
 
01:27:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Good to be with you all.
 
01:27:59 Bonnie Lewis: Prayers of course!
 
01:29:15 Bonnie Lewis: that's right because I received an email.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part II and Hypothesis XXXVI

In these hypotheses, we have been reflecting upon the practice of asceticism, especially in light of the relationship between an Elder and his disciple; that is, in relationship to obedience. We are shown in these stories the ABC’s of the ascetic life and in particular that of the virtue of obedience. 
 
What does it mean to let go of private judgment? What does it mean to set aside one’s will even in small things in our day-to-day life? How do we train the mind and the heart in this virtue; so that when we are asked to pick up our cross or when we are reduced to raw endurance and cannot see the road ahead of us, we are able to respond in love?  We are shown in the stories that one must begin small. It is in letting go of our sensitivities in the small things, and allowing love to trump everything that this virtue takes root. It means being more attentive to the “other”, to what is asked of us and what people need, than to holding on to what we want, or what seems right or convenient to us. 
 
There is part of us that shrinks back in a spirit of objection to what is being taught here. It seems unnatural to us. But what is really being asked of us or rather where we are being led to embrace is the supernatural. What we are being guided to is the perfect love and self emptying obedience that we see in Christ. We should have a similar desire to have obedience to God’s will as our very food.  We must see it as something that sustains and nourishes us mystically. 
 
Not fulfilling the will of God or choosing the path of sin should become something that is abhorrent to us. Such lessons can be learned only with humility. Beyond this, we are shown the incredible responsibility of those who are elders. Their actions, their requests and demands of their disciples must be rooted in the desire for their salvation, and for their good. They will be held accountable as shepherds.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:17 David Fraley: Hello Mrs Abernethy!
 
00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 305
 
00:08:28 David Fraley: Hi Fr David!
 
00:08:35 FrDavid Abernethy: Hi Dave!!
 
00:14:32 Debra: Step 11...on talkativeness....was really convicting
 
00:14:51 FrDavid Abernethy: yes it was!!
 
00:15:10 Debra: Ooops...wrong meeting LOL
 
00:25:19 Rachel: Maybe he wanted to see if his disciple was stuoid.
 
00:25:37 Rachel: stupid. Sorry. I should not joke.
 
00:28:57 iPhone: Reacted to "Maybe he wanted to s…" with ❤️
 
00:29:19 Rachel: Yes, I doubt he was stupid nor did the elder think that.
 
00:30:07 Rachel: I wonder though, what would be all of our reactions to this reality in our everyday lives?
 
00:52:38 Anthony Rago: This has got to be specific to novices.  Saints (Elizabeth of Hungary?) are praised for charity against the wishes of the head of household
 
00:55:36 Anthony Rago: But if these people can't use discretion, they also can fall into legalism - oops I don't have permission, I can't act on my own.
 
00:58:32 Anthony Rago: The religious life then is horribly dangerous.
 
01:01:01 Anthony Rago: That indicates then that people cannot abandon their discretion, they have to withhold some obedience, so they can  judge the situation, whether it is healthy or crazy - or just not for them.
 
01:05:15 Anthony Rago: Yes, I've seen situations both of people in religious life and married life that were just psychologically off.
 
01:05:25 Ambrose Little, OP: He also says submit to each other.
 
01:08:30 Debra: I always suggest Chrysogonus
 
01:09:09 Debra: for a baby's name
He could just be called Chrys
 
01:18:36 Rachel: Thank you all, Thank you Father
 
01:19:08 Rachel: :) lol
 

To Love Fasting

Tonight we explored an often neglected aspect of the spiritual life; or one might better say an essential part of the spiritual life – Fasting. Throughout the spiritual tradition, we have heard the Saints tell us that “prayer without fasting is weak” or that “where there is no prayer and fasting there are demons.”
With the coming of Christ, however, we see a unique and distinctive meaning of fasting emerge. It is not only a discipline to help order the appetites or a form of penitence. It is tied directly to Christ: what we see in His practice and in what He teaches us about it.  His own fasting is guided by the Holy Spirit in preparation for embracing the Father’s will, and His desire that it might be accomplished. Beyond this, Christ teaches us that our practice of fasting is forever tied to our desire for Him. He is the Heavenly Bridegroom and each soul the Bride. We see and experience in Him the One alone who can satisfy the deepest desires of the human heart. He is the Bread of Life. 
The focus of our discussion this night was on recapturing not only the practice of fasting, but seeing it as something that is to be “loved”, precisely because it draws us to Christ. It is not a discipline but a path to draw nearer to the Beloved.  
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:01 Stephen McCane: I have doing this “Exodus 90” and it is like a warm up to Lent.
 
00:25:51 Stephen McCane: For women it is called “Fiat 90”.
 
00:45:48 Adam Paige: Hi Father, should laypeople share their Lenten fasting plans with their spiritual director in the same way Saint Benedict instructs his monks to do with their spiritual father in his rule ?
 
01:14:51 Victoria: here is the book pdf: https://ia902908.us.archive.org/6/items/tolovefasting/To%20Love%20Fasting.pdf
 
01:15:41 Victoria: Free on Internet Archive :)
 
01:16:14 Adam Paige: Original version in French: https://folleautonomie.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/adalbert-de-Vogue-Aimer-Le-Jeune.pdf
 
01:21:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "here is the book pdf…" with 👍
 
01:33:07 angelo: Reacted to "here is the book pdf..." with ❤️
 
01:33:20 angelo: Replying to "here is the book pdf..."
 
thank you
 
01:33:53 Matt Mondorff: I’ve found that our physical bodies don’t require much food, it’s mainly our mind and habits that convince us that we’re hungry. So to realize that and push through the initial hunger, knowing it’s coming but we’ll be ok has helped me a lot. Then, little by little it gets easier to go longer and longer. Eating healthy and moderately helps also…it seems to my anyway
 
01:47:52 Lori Hatala: you can saute in broth.
 
01:48:12 Fr. Michael Winn: A former monk of Mt. Athos once told me that in North America it would be inadvisable to stop all use of oil during the winter seasons - reduce, but do not eliminate.
 
01:57:15 Kathy: My experience of fasting is that it is a type of prayer in and of itself.
01:59:22 angelo: Thank you for that short clarification of the centering prayer and the danger of falling into delusion.
 
02:06:09 angelo: Thank you so much Fr.
 
02:06:29 Lori Hatala: thank you so much Father.
 
02:06:31 Stephen McCane: Thank you Father.
 
02:06:33 Ryan McMann: Thank you!
 
02:06:40 Monk Maximos: Thank you Father
 
02:07:18 kevin: thanks father that was great!!
 
02:07:21 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
02:07:22 Fr. Michael Winn: Thanks, Father!
 
02:07:25 Rachel Pineda: Thank you father Abernethy!!
 
02:07:31 Siggy Evers: Thank you Fr.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XI: On Talkativeness and Silence

Tonight, we read Step number 11 on “talkativeness and silence.”  Fittingly, it is very brief, if not the briefest of all of the steps of The Ladder. This brevity is St. John’s way of teaching us that so much of our speech involves vainglory; putting ourselves on display. We seek through it to step out of ourselves; betraying the painful experience we have as human beings of our lack of identity.  God has created us for himself. He has created us in his image and likeness precisely that we might not experience ourselves in isolation, but rather in communion. However, to enter into communion with God means to step out of our limited ways of perceiving the world around us and reality as a whole. This means allowing God, through the silence,to draw us in faith into the experience of His life, light and love.  To give ourselves over to talkativeness is to find ourselves dissipated. Our desire for God cools and the emptiness that we feel drives us to fill our lives with anything and everything so that we do not feel alone. Despite having God dwelling within us, once we lose sight of him, silence becomes an enemy. Therefore, John tells us that we must foster silence as a habit. We must allow God to show us its value, and what it makes possible for us. The first step is to create external silence. Once we have done this, we often see the unsettledness of our minds and hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:45 Cindy Moran: Is your patron saint Matthew?
 
00:15:18 John & Heather: Do you mind mentioning what edition this group uses?
 
00:15:54 Debra: I saw your post on FB about it
 
00:16:41 John & Heather: Replying to "Do you mind mentioni..."
 
Great...thank you.
 
00:16:43 Cindy Moran: I really liked Ren's presentation on the prayer rope
 
00:17:38 FrDavid Abernethy: Yes.  Excellent.  She makes the most exquisite prayer ropes as well.
 
00:17:51 FrDavid Abernethy: Maybe she will put up the website address.
 
00:27:32 Eric Ewanco: My translation says "foe of license" instead of "enemy of freedom of speech"
 
00:41:56 Bonnie Lewis: This is why adoration before the Blessed Sacrament is such a beautiful gift where silence is filled with God's love for us.
 
00:43:12 Vicki Nichols: Would this silence include silencing the "inner chatter" of your thoughts or is it only external silence?
 
00:53:28 Rebecca Thérèse: I've found that people who chatter continuously don't care if you're listening or not so I can zone out!
 
00:54:01 wayne: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂
 
00:55:21 iPhone: Amen
 
00:56:08 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I've found that peop..."
with 😂
 
00:58:48 iPhone: Totally
 
00:59:06 Ambrose Little, OP: My in-laws feel that way about visiting here—the kiddos are a constant background buzzing. 🙂 You can get acclimated..
 
00:59:19 Eric Ewanco: How do we in the world balance silence with the cultivation of valuable relationships in life, for example at work or whatever? In other words, how do we discern the threshold of silence to maintain -- there is the absolute silence of a monk, and the rambling of the garroulous, where do we draw the line?
 
01:00:17 Debra: I wear hearing aids, but only if I'm going somewhere were I HAVE to listen...like Mass, or meetings
As soon as I'm out of that meeting, I take out my aids, because the world is such a noisy place!!
 
01:00:54 Debra: Reacted to "My in-laws feel that..." with 😁
 
01:08:21 iPhone: + 1
 
01:12:20 Anthony Rago: Being someone who does work from home, and lives alone, the silence does not feel too great all the time.  Only the deep silence when in my workshop or working in my kitchen or dining room or times like that is satisfying.
 
01:12:49 Debra: So much ambient noise...Like you mentioned, noise does create anxiety
I can literally feel tension leave, when I take my hearing aids out.
 
01:13:18 Debra: Reacted to "Being someone who do..." with 🤗
 
01:16:40 iPhone: Making a note of it
 
01:16:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:17:48 Debra: Thanks be to God
 
Thank you! Good night!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXV, Part I

Obedience!  The root of the word is to hear or to listen. What emerges in reading the fathers is that our capacity to hear the word of God is rooted in our willingness to set aside our own willfulness, ego, and our private judgment. We often become obstinate and entrenched in our own view of things in such a way that we are no longer able to hear the advice or counsel of others. We are shown in this evening’s text that sometimes we must be left to our own devices to experience the poverty of our choices that are contrary to the will of God and His love. 
What also emerges is that obedience is not rooted in law but love. Obedience is the fruit of a deep relationship with God, and with one’s spiritual elder. An elder must love his disciple, and recognize that he bears responsibility for his salvation and so must give him constant care. The disciple must reciprocate this love and respect. In doing so, he enables the elder to be a true shepherd and not a mere hireling. This mutual obedience elevates the entire church and allows it to make present the humble love of Christ crucified to the world.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:49:18 Anthony Rago: I may have heard that sentiment too
 
00:49:29 Ambrose Little, OP: It’s probably saying that he’s true enough to Scripture and expansive in his guidance to cover such a loss. But it’s just a hypothetical.
 
00:50:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Hyperbole, like when Jesus says to cut off the hand that causes us to sin. Exaggeration to make a point about the quality of his teaching.
 
00:52:01 Anthony Rago: How may we properly revere persons not exactly in communion with Catholics?  I LOVE the works of St. Gregory of Narek - but if Pope Francis had not made him a Doctor of the Church, I would have forced myself to be cautious.  I'd love to go wholehearted into Coptic Orthodox spirituality / theology, but how cautious should we be?
 
01:00:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Echoes what St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the Apostle) says of the faithful’s relationship with their bishop.
 
01:12:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There is an amazing genius in the story-based instruction of the Evergetinos. It really makes ideas stick in a memorable way.
 
01:14:17 Anthony Rago: I'm open to it
 
01:14:19 David Fraley: I’d be interested.
 
01:14:21 carol nypaver: Sure!
 
01:14:29 Paul Fifer: Me too.
 
01:14:54 John & Heather: Would be interested.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part II

This evening we continued and completed Step number 10 on “slander and calumny.”  Something very special emerges about John in the writing of this step. We see something very personal about John’s capacity to love and his purity of heart. He acknowledges his own struggle with judging others as sinners, when in reality they were pure of heart in secret. Thus, John’s repeated counsel is not to judge at all; even when we see things with a kind of clarity. We often have blind spots and dark spots in our evaluation of the others. Beyond this, the Evil One puts before us smoke, if you will, making us think that there is sin present where none exist. 
All that we are allowed to do is to love others. This means that we always attribute their sin to the action of demons. We are to look for the good in others and look for ways that we can support and lift them up if they are struggling. This means setting aside the morbid delight that we take in judging and the feeling of emotional power that we think it gives us over and against them. We must acknowledge the radical solidarity that exist between us and foster a spirit of generosity towards each other. To seize for ourselves a prerogative that belongs only to God is ruinous to the soul. May God preserve us!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:24 Bridget McGinley: Father, sorry...little long....I just wanted to follow up from last week with a comment/question. I was not able to type this fast enough. It was in relation to what you were saying about being serious and stern in presenting the Faith. You mentioned about your early sermon and how it was perceived by the college kids. I used to be pretty sanguine. Life has taken it’s toll. I once heard Bishop Sheen say something that was pretty profound. He stated, “Christ had many emotions that were written about in the Bible but never did he smile or laugh.” Bishop Sheen stated that He is saving those for us in Heaven. Looking at Step 10 point 2 many people nowadays are pretty “shameless and very happy” and it is hard for me to find smiles and joy surrounded by the deluge. In tip-toeing around the obvious moral problems these days how does one escape mental slander which sometimes manifests as verbal slander? And how does one show a non-judgemental face?
 
00:37:37 iPhone: Anen Father
 
00:49:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Part of Leviticus 19 came into my mind in relation to not judging at all  15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
 
17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
 
00:57:02 Anthony Rago: Since the Late Middle Ages, our culture has been both immoral and curious.  We want the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summas, but we have not as eagerly gone to the other side of him, the one that made the Pange Lingua
 
00:57:39 Anthony Rago: We want knowledge for curiousity's sake, but not the humility of devotion
 
00:57:54 Ambrose Little, OP: Do you think the nature of social media has made this particular trap of the Devil more prevalent?
 
00:58:30 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: How great it would be to always be centered on noting the virtues it observes in others!
 
00:58:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Amen, Sister!
 
01:03:12 Bridget McGinley: As a nurse I can attest it is physically and mentally debilitating communicating. Many of my co workers talk about how they can't even talk after a shift. Verbal interaction is very challenging.
 
01:11:45 Ambrose Little, OP: About #12 and #15.. I recently learned of a few very vocal critics (including a former apologist) in the Church ending up leaving the Faith, either entirely or moving to a sect. It’s very sad. There is something in what St. John is saying they’re for sure—that this kind of behavior can be ruinous.
 
01:17:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:17:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:18:23 Ren Witter: Philokalia.link/tolovefasting
 
01:18:41 carol nypaver: Time??
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIV

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 34. Again we are introduced into the practice of asceticism; in particular, how it is embraced in the spirit of obedience. We were given multiple stories of individuals who, out of love for their elder, respond with an immediacy to their demand or request. In each case we are shown the deep fruit that this bears. 
However, the greater task for us is to look at our lives and to see if we have prepared our hearts to receive the seed of our Lord‘s word as he calls us to the life of holiness. Do we respond with swiftness when called to prayer or with zeal when called to embrace the practice of fasting or urgency when called respond to someone in need or jeopardy? 
What the stories show us is that obedience is based upon a relationship, not law. It is love that makes us run to respond to Christ and to those He has given to us to guide us along the path to Him. If our asceticism or obedience lacks this love, then it is something that is suspect.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:43 B David: hi all 
Ben David here.  sort of new here...
 
00:10:55 FrDavid Abernethy: welcome Ben!
 
00:12:24 David Fraley: Hello Ben!
 
00:12:59 David Fraley: I did. I found a place in West View.
 
00:21:09 Bridget McGinley: St Hesychios in the Philokalia states “ a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in Christ through obedience to His commandments.  Father, if one cannot find an “elder” can one be assured of the graces and gifts of obedience by simply following the commandments?
 
00:24:33 Bridget McGinley: thank you
 
00:33:13 Anthony Rago: This is in stark contrast with the pagans - example the fear in the Adventures of Ulysses, in the trip to Hades, land of the shades.
 
00:35:22 Anthony Rago: The Coptic Hymn to St George names him the conqueror of his tormentors
 
01:14:40 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part II and Chapter X: On Slander or Calumny, Part I

The subtle movements of the human heart and mind stand revealed while reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent. As one makes one’s way through the text, it becomes clear that it is an inevitability. We must stand ready to have our hearts illuminated and the places that we desire to keep in darkness, whether consciously or unconsciously, exposed. Yet, somehow, when these words come from the pen of a Saint, there is a healing that one begins to experience; even as we know the sting of the words. Knowing and seeing the truth lightens the mind and the heart and opens us to experience the grace and the mercy of God. By removing the impediments to the action of that grace, we find ourselves no longer running with a heavy tread under the burden and the weight of some hidden guilt or wound, but freely and swiftly moving towards He who is Love. 
The jarring nature of John’s words is eventually overcome by the confidence in his desire, as well as God’s, to bring us healing. Such is the case with John’s description of the remembrance of wrongs. He makes it clear that without remedy, it can poison the heart and become dark spite. The more we nurture our anger, the more the heart becomes poisoned, and we eventually only see the faults of others.  To be free of this burden, he tells us, allows us to boldly ask our Savior for the release of our own sins. 
John would have us show no hesitancy and experience no doubt about what coming to God brings us. If we do not attend to this wound, what is born from it is slander. This, he tells us, drains the blood of love and becomes the patron of a heavy and unclean heart. In our anger, we may diminish another through our words, but the consequence that has for ourselves is far greater. It is a coarse disease that only Christ and gazing upon Christ crucified can heal.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:24 Anthony Rago: Tractor Supply, too
 
00:08:15 Anthony Rago: time for an exorcism of the air....
 
00:09:39 FrDavid Abernethy: page 126 para 13
 
00:12:43 Cindy Moran: Oooo...Yes!
 
00:22:53 Anthony Rago: Then this would apply also to wrongs WE have done, too, that filter our His healing?
 
00:27:03 sue and mark: I have found that if I am struggling in this area..that if I ask God to forgive them for me...  it is easier  also to bring me to that place of forgiveness that he desires
 
00:32:12 Anthony Rago: This is what I have a hard time understanding: sin, mortal and venial, which is emphasized so much in the admonishion if frequent confessions....so much emphasis on me, me, me.
 
00:35:42 Anthony Rago: How often is good?
 
00:39:56 Anthony Rago: Thank you
 
00:55:41 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm still puzzled as to the difference between spite and dark spite
 
00:57:43 Cindy Moran: Who is the author of the book you mentioned last week "Orthodox Psychotherapy"?
 
00:57:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe something like.. If you harbor it secretly in the “darkness” of your inner self. You don’t allow it to be brought into the Light, examined for what it is, and see that it is wrong and needs to be eliminated.
 
00:57:59 carol: Dark definition includes “angry, threatening, arising from evil, sinister”
 
00:58:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you all
 
01:01:16 Ambrose Little, OP: “Speaking the truth in love” is one of the most abused phrases.
 
01:03:23 Anthony Rago: Chastity covers up, it is modest.  Unchastity is an unholy exposure.
 
01:11:29 Rachel: LOL
 
01:11:49 Anthony Rago: I think you're right.  More St. Francis is needed, less "vert few will be saved."
 
01:13:08 Lee Graham: The river of life flowing out of us
 
01:14:37 Rachel: ouch
 
01:15:45 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:15:47 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:56 Devansh Shukla: Thank you
 
01:15:57 Rachel: YES!!
 
01:16:08 Bernadette Truta: Yes please!
 
01:16:09 Art: Thank you good night.  Yes I’m interested in the Zoom group on fasting.
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes
 
01:16:12 Deb Dayton: Is this in person?
 
01:16:13 sue and mark: yes
 
01:16:16 Jacqulyn: Yes... I am interested!
 
01:16:19 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: when?
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part IV

Reading the fathers deeply is unsettling. It strikes against every sensibility that we have and calls into question our perception of reality itself. In this sense, their writings are meant to illuminate the gospels for us and allow them to challenge us. So often we become lukewarm simply because things have become familiar and comfortable to us. We lose sight of the fact that in the face of Christ’s teaching individuals tore their garments and repeatedly wanted to put him to his death and eventually did accomplish this. 
What does reading the gospel or the fathers give rise to within our hearts and consciences? The stories about obedience in this hypothesis are startling; we can hardly imagine ourselves enduring such things for a moment, let alone seeing them as something that are a means to freeing us from self-will and from the ego. What is it that we love? What stirs our hearts to their greatest desire? What are we willing to die for? Is Christ our Beloved or merely the construction of our minds and imaginations to make us feel safe in this world?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:29 Paul Fifer: This paragraph sounds a lot like the Russian movie named “The Island”.
 
00:21:58 Anthony Rago: Reminds me of "Ostrov / Island" in which the foolish monk tends the coal furnace for 30 or so years
 
00:22:30 Charbel: A fantastic film, I get some folks together to watch it at the beginning of the Fast every year.
 
00:24:03 carol nypaver: Profound film!  I need to watch it again.
 
00:24:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Much like having small children. 🙂
 
00:25:52 Anthony Rago: Culturally, in Sicily, my family had livestock on the ground floor.  Same with Padre Pio's family.  Living quarters were upstairs.  Maybe the monk lived in a downstairs "barn" and the others lived on the floor(s) above.
 
00:27:54 Deb Dayton: Reacted to "Much like having sma..." with 😂
 
00:28:00 carol nypaver: Very interesting, Anthony.  Thank you for the insight.
 
00:39:16 Charbel: Apologies for ducking out. I'm taking an extra shift at the shelter and may have to step away from time to time as folks come into my office.
 
00:39:22 Joyce and Jim Walsh: Story of the Monk reminds me  of the indignities suffered by St. FAUSTINA as noted in her Diary.
 
00:51:40 Anthony Rago: But if we are in the image of God, I see a tension.  One the one hand, there is the parable of the unworthy servants doing only what is expected of you.  But on the other hand, you are made in the image of God, and I would thing, there is room for some sense of ego and satisfaction.  Not smugness, but joy and satisfaction.
 
00:53:52 iPhone: Amen Father
 
01:04:05 iPhone: Really Powerful Message.
 
01:13:14 Denise T. : This is probably really worldly of me, but if you allow someone to hurt you unjustly or lie about you or anything else that is deliberately inflicted by another without saying anything, will that be good for them. There seems a sense of justice is lost. Not saying anything. 
 
01:20:05 Denise T. : Thank  you, Father.
 
01:20:16 carol nypaver: Do those who inflict the “punishment” on us,  also become more saintly even if their intent is NOT that we become more patient, humble, etc.? Especially if they are not our “elders”? If we become holier for what we endure at their hands, do they also grow in holiness if we endure patiently?
 
01:21:27 Sharon: Thank you

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IX: On Remembrance of Wrongs, Part I

There are certain moments while reading the fathers when one trembles. The truth expressed is so vivid and pierces so deeply that the experience of it is visceral. One is shaken.  This is not easy to endure, and perhaps there are moments when reading such texts becomes a stumbling block for our minds and our hearts. However, when they speak the truth of Christ and when they reveal the depth of love that we are called to in Him, ultimately these words are healing. The fathers, in so many ways, are spiritual physicians. Their words cut like a scalpel and cut deeply. But they cut out the “rot” as John describes it. The remembrance of wrongs, which is the offspring of anger, is not something that we can remove on our own. Untreated it spreads like a cancer. The fact, John tells us it has no offspring because it poisons the soul so completely that it makes us incapable of love. 
May God give us the grace to listen with humility and gratitude. We are given such loving fathers who desire nothing but our healing. When we begin to trust that, then their words become as bright and illuminating as the sun.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 125 Step number 9
 
00:20:29 Anthony: Another kind of remembering wrongs is to trod the path of bad example someone has set...examples, hearing cursing, and then carrying on that "tradition" instead of cutting it off; or doing violence because someone else did violence to you (a chain of abuse).
 
00:22:58 Eric Ewanco: My translation titles this section "On Malice" (with a translation note that also offers "remembrance of wrongs). Your translation refers to "hourly malice" (mine says "rancor by the hour"). Can you elaborate on the relationship between malice and remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:24:12 Ashley Kaschl: Could a victim mentality be tied to the “pleasureless feeling cherished in the sweetness of bitterness” part?
 
00:24:26 Bonnie Lewis: So I shouldn't be troubled that I can relate so deeply to this step?
 
00:27:16 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen Father
 
00:28:30 Anthony: Healing.  In Divine Comedy, Dante is washed in a river of forgetfulness when passing from Purgatory to Heaven, so he can forget all memory of sin.
 
00:31:35 iPhone: +1
 
00:48:05 iPhone: Love these Sessions Father !
 
00:48:53 Daniel Allen: The internet, for a million different reasons, is dangerous… not reading the fathers.
 
00:50:52 carol: How does one speak freely in the context of therapy or spiritual direction while also avoiding the remembrance of wrongs?
 
00:55:37 Charbel & Justin: Demons are fundamentally chaotic.
 
01:05:47 Anthony: Remember that the demons make suckers and schlubs out of all of us.  It makes it easier to have compassion on another.
 
01:07:09 iPhone: Amen
 
01:08:37 Bonnie Lewis: true
 
01:08:47 iPhone: Love that
 
01:10:37 iPhone: Much work to do in this regard.
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: This entire section reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross: “Whenever anything disagreeable happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent.”
 
01:12:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:12:26 Bonnie Lewis: This step is excellent Father.  Much to ponder.
 
01:12:43 Debra: Reacted to "This entire section ..." with ❤️
 
01:12:44 iPhone: Amen Father.  Tremendous !
 
01:13:39 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you Father. Great to be with you all.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part III

The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6
 
00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession?  Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition?
 
00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12.
 
00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ?
 
00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm
 
01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful
 
01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired?
 
01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄
 
01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints.  We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young.
 
01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues.
 
01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part III

As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17
 
00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David!
 
00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17
 
00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
 
01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you
 
01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father!
 
01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :(
 
01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack
 
01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this
 
01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
 
01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you
 
01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part II

What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding
 
00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God>
 
00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in.
 
00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others?  Any room in the Fathers for this?  Or is that called something else in their terminology?
 
00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering
 
01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself
 
01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue?
 
01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need).
 
01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you!
 
01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXIII, Part II

What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.”  It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us. 
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ. 
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs
 
00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds
 
00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too
 
00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity?
 
00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs.
 
00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day.
 
00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. 
 
But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍
 
00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation.
 
00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this.
 
00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it).
 
01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience?
 
01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VII and Chapter VIII: On Freedom from Anger, Part I

Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness. 
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin. 
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.”  The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66
 
00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page?
 
00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120
 
00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean!
 
00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God
 
00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻
 
00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼
 
01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, 
 
“Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.”
 
01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?”
 
01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley.  Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen!
 
01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...?  Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure?  Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions
 
01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father
 
01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all.
 
01:15:05 Art: Thank you father!
 
01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David
 
01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you!
 
01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 
01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXXIII, Part I

To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue. 
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace. 
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J
 
00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end.
 
01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part VI

What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will? 
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page?
 
00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118
 
00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance.
 
01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen."
 
01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.”
 
01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🙂 )
 
01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:27:08 kevin: Thank you
 
01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part III

The times reading The Evergetinos I find my mind and heart swimming not in darkness but rather in a light with which I am unfamiliar. For in reading the fathers, everything seems to be turned on its head. The writings are often jarring, but in a similar way to that of the Gospel.  To read deeply is to find one’s heart inflamed. To listen closely is to find something stirred within us that perhaps was once lifeless. The words can be so piercing that they reveal parts of ourselves that we were unaware of or did not know existed. This is what we were shown tonight; and this is what makes every moment of reflecting upon the fathers worth it.
 
---
 
Text of chat during the group:
 
00:29:34 Mark Kelly: Fr. David is speaking of Fr. Lazarus el Antony.
 
00:31:23 Mark Kelly: Fr. Lazarus vide:  https://vimeo.com/9794946
 
00:35:54 Anthony: This section by Isaac is jarring because it appears to conflict w\ith duty to family and community; and it conflicts with the Christian culture ideal which Europeans at least remember from the Middle Ages.  Pope Benedict's catecheses on the saints which built Christendom would be very different if he came from a culture that was dominated by, say, Islam.
 
00:41:01 Bridget McGinley: I am from Philly...… he ended pretty disgraced. I think the Princehood got to his head. That is a big crown to wear. I agree it is contrary to religious life.
 
00:43:13 Anthony: In my opinion, I believe I see this "worldiness" emerge in Europe after the rocky path the Germanic tribes had in full conversion to the Faith.  The Romano-Greeks in the East had similar problems manifested in another way - hence the unflattering term "byzantine".  Each culture needs to fully convert and not flatter themselves.
 
00:43:55 Babington (or Babi): I think it was Saint Therese who wrote “Everything I have and am everything I am is pure gift.”
 
00:44:17 Babington (or Babi): Oops miswrote
 
00:44:35 Babington (or Babi): Everything I have and everything I am is pure gift.
 
00:45:56 iPhone: Principalities ?
 
00:52:17 Mark Kelly: One of the better-known sayings of the desert fathers is,” There are two things to avoid, an easy life and vain glory.”
 
00:53:18 iPhone: principalities and powers
 
00:57:17 Anthony: Monk is from monos = single
 
00:57:24 Anthony: single minded, so I have heard
 
01:13:17 iPhone: Really Excellent !
 
01:15:19 iPhone: Whoa.  Amen
 
01:18:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Reminds me of the style of parables. First of the unfaithful servants. Then like the inverse of the parable of the lost sheep. But in this case, it’s the celebration of Satan and all of Hell when just one “sheep” is lost.
 
01:20:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father!
 
01:20:59 Babington (or Babi): Good stuff.  Thank you Father. God bless you all. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part V

Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us. 
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49
 
00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello!  We are new to the group.  We live in Colorado.
 
00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116
 
00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate!
 
00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you!  Good to be here!
 
00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy!
 
00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke
 
00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell
 
00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory
 
00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on?
 
00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51
 
00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks!
 
00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander?
 
00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant
 
00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean?
 
00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one..
 
00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning'
 
00:43:08 Rachel: lol me!
 
00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it..
 
00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy?
 
00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a  young man.
 
00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance?  Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition?
 
00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before
 
00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes
00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful.
 
01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church.
 
01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer?
 
01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject?
 
01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:14:46 Rachel: haha
 
01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊
 
01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you!
 
01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you!
 
01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
 
01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂
 
01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
01:16:01 Riccardo Orlandi: thank!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXII, Part II

We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me. 
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside?  Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!
 
00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!!
 
00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂
 
00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me.
 
00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society
 
00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession.
 
01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
 
01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow?
 
01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay
 
01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God?
 
01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight.
 
01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :)
 
01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father!
 
01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part IV

We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28
 
00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂
 
00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues
 
00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless
 
00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them.
 
00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study
 
00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating!
 
00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing.
 
01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing?
 
01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you
 
01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 
01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part II and XXXII, Part I

Tonight, in Hypothesis 32we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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Text of chat during the group:
01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted.
 
01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue:  show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it.  We need to find a worthy sacrifice.
 
01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called?
 
01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism.
 
01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow
 
01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks.  I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part III

Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us. 
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short. 
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world? 
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow!
 
00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122
 
00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112
 
00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors
 
00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling
 
00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :)
 
00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe?
 
00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins?
 
00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts?  Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad.
 
00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen!
 
00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane
 
00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary
 
00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short'
 
01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration?
 
01:10:56 Anthony: alloy?
 
01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made....
 
01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :)
 
01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXXI, Part I

How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly.  It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world? 
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed
 
00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin
 
00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me.
 
00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle.  Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church.
 
00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers!
 
00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God.
 
00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring
 
01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful!
 
01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun.  It looks like maybe people should have left her alone.  Am I wrong here?
 
01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear.
 
01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother
 
01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂
 
01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father!
 
01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father
 
01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning, Part II

The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly.  They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace.  This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff.
 
00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear?
 
00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org
 
00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears.
 
00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this?
 
00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows.
 
00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow.  His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality.
 
00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge?
 
00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios
 
00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan
 
00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state.
 
00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station.  One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant.  It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this?
 
00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us.
 
01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
01:12:21 Daniel Allen: This makes sense. If you plead guilty you will skip past trying to prove your innocence and simply ask for mercy from the judge. But if you are busy trying to put up a defense you have no time to simply beg for mercy.
 
01:16:26 Henry Peresie: That happens often in Facebook.
 
01:22:48 CMoran: Thank you Father...great session!
 
01:22:54 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you!
 
01:22:56 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:23:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:23:06 kevin: thank you
 
01:23:08 Deiren Masterson: God bless you Father - you are a gift.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXX, Part I

Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us. 
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX
 
00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish.  We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs.
 
00:31:04 carol: And obedience
 
00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE)
 
00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins
 
01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 
 
01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has!
 
01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring
 
01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men
 
01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!!
 
01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E
 
01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e
 
01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all
 
01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter VI: On the Remembrance of Death and Chapter VII: On Joy-Making Mourning

To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire. 
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it. 
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil.
 
00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all.  :)
 
00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it?
 
00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting.  So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest.
 
00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense.
 
00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete.
 
00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance.  Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it.  We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit>
 
01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with!
 
01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving!
 
01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you
 
01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part III

This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God. 
 
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject?  We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?”  The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.”  We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life.
 
00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us.  So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors.
 
00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be
 
00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits
 
00:37:13 Anthony: medium
 
00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there?
 
00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus
 
00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people.
 
00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience
 
01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven.  God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice.  and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part IV and Chapter VI: On Remembrance of Death, Part I

We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107
 
00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice:  Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life?
 
00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty?
 
01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose.
 
01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art.
 
01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits
 
01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
 
01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIX, Part II

We found ourselves this evening entering more deeply into the nature of the spiritual struggle and warfare and the effects that it has upon us and others. We do not exist in isolation and there is no passive position in the spiritual life or our relationship with God. We either struggle with the passions or they gradually direct our life. We either struggle with God and those he has given to support us and to be our allies in the battle or we begin to war with the tyrant. Our willingness to enter into the struggle with temptation, to fearlessly endure the trials that we undergo in life begins to reveal more and more to the soul. We begin to be able to distinguish between virtue and vice with a greater clarity. We also acquire virtue by this warfare and toil and so begin to see that we are more steadfast when embattled. Though stronger, however, we also learn that we must remain humble and hate vice so as to avoid it. Finally, we see our frailty in all of its fullness and the love and the power of God. The very battle itself reveals so much about ourselves and the hidden regions of the unconscious; that have been wounded by our sin or from having lived in a fallen world. Yet, it also reveals to us the very desire of God. God longs and yearns for our love. He thirsts for it. Such things are not learned from books but rather through the experience of the Paschal mystery. It is through dying to sin and self and rising to life in Christ that we come to know Him and to understand the nature of divine love.
 
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Text of chat during the group: 
 
00:38:39 Eric Ewanco: this paragraph really resonates with my recent experience!!
 
00:52:17 Anthony: Pope Benedict wrote about a non-sinful understanding of Eros.
 
00:52:45 Anthony: Spe Salvi?
 
00:54:04 Rachel: Can one experience these temptations so keenly that they feel as if they are actually doing violence to themselves? Especially when it come to thoughts. Where one does not wish to sin in the thoughts let alone sins of action. Do the demons and our wounds from past sins attack us even greater and rebel when we have set our hearts on God and his will alone? I know someone who described the fight as almost maddening because they had been so steeped in sin that the battle would even feel physically and mentally wounding. it reminds me of when Saint may of Egypt told Abba Zosimas that there were some days she would spend face down on the ground until they passed. Calling on the name of Jese.
 
00:54:11 Rachel: Jesus.
 
00:54:15 Eric Ewanco: I don't see "eros" occur in Spe Salvi
 
00:55:50 Ashley Kaschl: I think it might be in Deus Caritas Est
 
00:56:32 Eric Ewanco: probably; I see 34 hits for eros there
 
01:00:14 Anthony: For what it's worth, sometimes, I almost feel that the devils even wish to snatch away prayer or take over consciousness to direct my attention away from God and to them.
 
01:01:10 Eric Ewanco: oh yeah; definitely, @anthony
 
01:01:40 Anthony: On the timelessness of the unconscious, "Iconostasis" by Fr. Pavel Florensky opens with this theme.
 
01:03:57 Rachel: Yes! This is precisely what I hoped you would touch upon.
 
01:06:48 Rachel: Where it would seem to bring a person the the edge of sanity but that is precisly where all of our ideas that we had of ourselves and of God are brought into the light. Where one become disillusioned with oneself and realizes that they have been brought to the threshold of the bridal chamber. Where there are no illusions and one stands as they are, in God. Where on e allows themselves to be loved as they have always been.
 
01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: Took me a little longer to type this out but I wanted to bounce off of Anthony’s comment on eros, I was recently talking to some friends about Pope Benedict’s clarifying of what God’s love looks like. Pope B says something like “on the Cross, God’s eros is made present for us.” Because His love is both agape and eros. Agape because it is selfless, self-gift, unconditional, sacrificial, etc. AND eros because God yearns for His people in the same way that eros burns passionately for the beloved. Eros moves the lover to become one with the beloved, ie, Christ and His church and through the Eucharist. So on the Cross, God begs the love of His people. Prayer is our act of eros back to God, where our own yearning for Him is most present within us as we call out to Him from our innermost being. So prayer is also the biggest target of the enemy because he knows that if he can destroy our connection to God, he greatly frustrate our passionate desire for Him.
 
01:13:43 Babington (or Babi): Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part III

It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz.
 
00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂
 
00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday.
 
00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like?
 
00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
Berean Standard Bible · Download
 
 
Cross References
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
 
John 10:6
Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
 
 
Treasury of Scripture
But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
The dog.
 
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
 
2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire..
 
00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly
 
00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful
 
00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my
sins
 
00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻
 
01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty.  They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition.
 
01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;)
 
01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way
 
01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._
 
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part III and Hypothesis XXIX, Part I

It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243
 
00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia.  I am infected with it these days!
 
00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling?
 
00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page?
 
00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty
 
00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4.  Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread.  They can be stored for several months.  To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts.  I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top.
 
01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those
 
01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation).  At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture.  It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare.  It is in a way very hard to be Catholic.
 
01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing!
 
01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part II

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God. 
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant? 
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."
 
00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.
 
00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection
 
00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.
 
00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.
 
00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.
 
01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.
 
01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.
 
01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman
 
01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.
 
01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.
 
01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️
 
01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part II

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.
 
00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.
 
00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.
 
00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳
 
00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.
 
00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."
 
00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."
 
00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?
 
01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting
 
01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way
 
01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.
 
01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??
 
01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!
 
01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter V: On Repentance, Part I

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy. 
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell. 
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97
 
00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important
 
00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?
 
00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?
 
00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.
 
01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.
 
01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.
 
01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂
 
01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVIII, Part I

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom. 
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept. 
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but. 
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XVI

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114
 
00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion
 
00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.
 
00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?
 
00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.
 
00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.
 
00:50:02 Rachel: yep
 
00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.
 
00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!
 
00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life
 
00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.
 
00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.
 
00:57:31 Rachel: lol
 
01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂
 
01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.
 
01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.
 
01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.
 
01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!
 
01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!
 
01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.
 
01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂
 
01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVII

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope. 
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability. 
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.
 
00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII
 
00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave
 
00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us
 
00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!
 
00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol
 
00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).
 
00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.
 
00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"
 
00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.
 
00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.
 
00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.
 
00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.
 
00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.
 
00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.
 
00:59:05 Debra: ❤️
 
01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
 
01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested...
https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/
 
01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.
 
01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.
 
01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.
 
01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like
01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂
 
01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..
 
01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏
 
01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XV

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith. 
Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross. 
We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?”
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110
 
00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.
 
00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice
 
00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice
 
00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀
 
00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110
 
00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!
 
00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.
 
00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility
 
00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"
 
00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣
 
00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....
 
00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?
 
00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years
 
00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?
 
00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi
 
00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner
 
00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre
 
00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ
 
00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?
 
00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo
 
00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear
 
00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL
 
01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?
 
01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.
 
01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way
 
01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.
 
01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father
 
01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!
 
01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
 
01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part III

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?
 
00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?
 
00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.
 
00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?
 
01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling
 
01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIV

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D
 
00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?
 
00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91
 
00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/
 
00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!
 
00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!
 
00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?
 
00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.
 
00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂
 
00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience
 
00:55:01 Rachel: LOL
 
00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.
 
00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.
 
01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance
 
01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets
 
01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄
 
01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.
 
01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often
 
01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.
 
01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow
 
01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You
 
01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)
 
01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."
 
01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father
 
01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen
 
01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you
 
01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!
 
01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
 
01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!
 
01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!
 
01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!
 
01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you
 
01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly
 
01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!
 
01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address
 
01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!
 
01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you
 
01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat
 
01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI, Part II

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion. 
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?
 
00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.
 
00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?
 
00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?
 
00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!
 
00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?
 
01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂
 
01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are
very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.
 
01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come
 
01:07:12 Paul: +1
 
01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose
 
01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!
 
01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!
 
01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL
 
01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL
 
01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..
 
01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father
 
01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.
 
01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!
 
01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!
 
01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren
 
01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!
 
01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you
 
01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XIII

One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence? 
What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty!
 
00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at?
 
00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91
 
00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you
 
00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody.
 
00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about?
 
00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written.
 
00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well.
 
00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell
 
00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert
 
00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅
 
00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96
 
01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will
 
01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence.
 
01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around
 
01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article
 
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/
 
01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though!
 
01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ."
 
01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation
 
01:16:27 Art: Thank you father.  Good night!
 
01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
 
01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all
 
01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
 
01:16:39 kevin: thanks
 
01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXVI

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.
 
00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.
 
00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?
 
00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂
 
00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣
 
00:38:47 Debra: 😁
 
00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?
 
00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus
 
00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness
 
00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.
 
00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩
 
00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!
 
00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣
 
00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!
 
00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!
 
00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇
 
00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.
 
00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!
 
00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.
 
01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...
 
01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆
 
01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
 
01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him. 
The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂
 
00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!
 
00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and
 
00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go
 
00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy. 
 
He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.
 
00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁
 
01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XII

I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense.  Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88
 
00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please
 
00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88
 
00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81
 
00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u
 
00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here
 
00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity.
 
00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults  causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves?  Doesn’t justice demand that?
 
00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth
 
00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.”
 
00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions).
 
00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness.
 
00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community?
 
01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here?
 
01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child..
 
01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart.
 
01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out.  I didn't hear what you just announced.
 
01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼
 
01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes
 
01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week)
 
01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you.
 
01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you!
 
01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers
 
01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much!
 
01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David!
 
01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father.  Good night
 
01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!!
 
01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event.
 
01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father
 
01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!!
 
01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen.  Thank you Father.
 
01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.
 
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXV, Part II

VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions. 
So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart -  thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others. 
Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity. 
Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4
 
00:20:30 Jack: page?
 
00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4
 
00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie  Man of God.. He was very Holy
 
00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God
 
00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)?
 
00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?)
 
00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct
 
00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec
 
00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback
 
00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or
 
00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends
 
00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop
 
00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin
 
00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example
 
00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers
 
01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all.
01:01:45 Eric Ewanco: Seeing our own faults in another is called "projection"
 
01:05:28 Ambrose Little, OP: Hey, I love a good shower. :)
 
01:13:27 Carol: Was it cassian or climacus who also warned against joking?
 
01:14:34 Erick Chastain: Follow-up to Carol's: St Benedict warned against a certain kind of joking in his rule. 
 
A related quote: "A friend is a second self, so that our consciousness of a friend's existence...makes us more fully conscious of our own existence." -Aristotle
 
01:15:15 Erick Chastain: (Aristotle)
 
01:20:28 Anne Barbosa: THANK YOU!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part XI

As we allow ourselves to be drawn deeper into the meaning of obedience by St. John’s writing, we begin to see the beauty of the virtue itself and the fruit that it produces within the soul. It is not a slavishness or weakness of will, but rather a soul that has been awakened to the lack of freedom that comes from self-judgment and that is limited or obscured by sin. The more that the heart is purified by grace and the ascetic life, the more we begin to long for obedience because it is an imitation of our Lord. It is His obedience that has led us all to the freedom of life and love in God. We become the greatest confessors of the faith when we conform ourselves to Him in this fashion. A true spiritual father, then,  is going to guide their spiritual children along this path that treasures humility, stillness, silence and unceasing prayer.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 87
 
00:04:12 FrDavid Abernethy: paragraph 72
 
00:19:17 Anthony: Thus, we have Vladika David ;)
 
00:29:25 Anthony: This humility is different than the idea that man is totally depraved but God declares us just. That religious idea can/does lead to self-loathing.  The hopefulness is in the infusion of Grace and Love which God gives us very wounded people.  That is a happy hope in contrast to our weakness and realization of our darkness outside of being attached to the Vine.
 
00:40:31 Anthony: There is a Bulgarian Orthodox Skete in Palmyra, VA near Charlottesville.
 
00:47:21 Rachel: They may, by this silence, learn to worship God in the moment. Standing silent before the other and suspending judgment..
 
00:47:59 Eric Ewanco: how is silence concretely rooted in gentleness and love?
 
00:48:04 Rachel: May be a way to practice faith and wait patiently for God to reveal Himself
 
00:51:11 Rachel: I don't think it means that we wont meet with situations where we find others contradicting us, or, when we are actively trying to be silent ourselves contradicting others all day long. So the silence may bring up a lot of uncomfortable contradictions where we learn by necessity, to wait patiently and rely on God in His good providence. It is not an inactive silence
 
00:52:02 Rachel: Its not rendering oneself dumb
 
00:53:13 Carol: Like the Blessed Virgin, pondering in one’s heart
 
00:54:23 Johnny Ross: Isn't this silence related to our Saviors Kenosis? It is an emptying of ourselves. Related also to the Via Negativa?
 
00:59:24 Anthony: When we are emptied, we want to be filled, to have an identity; but it
 
01:00:13 Anthony: it's awfully hard to follow Jesus because we can't grasp or contain Him, so we want to build ourselves into an image of what we want to be or should be.
 
01:01:03 Anthony: the heirs of the maccabees
 
01:05:52 Rachel: today
 
01:06:30 Rachel: in whole foods yesterday lol
 
01:08:28 Johnny Ross: Yes, we face a stark choice today, Either we worship God or we worship ourselves.
 
01:09:01 Anthony: /because prayer is work?
 
01:12:34 Bridget McGinley: The Bible states to Pray Always... the theme of The Way of the Pilgrim
 
01:14:42 Rachel: Instead of stripping oneself of everything that may stand in the way of God. Emptying our hearts can feel uncomfortable. prayer can become like building up a wall. Sort of like coming to God every time in prayer and only making small talk or talking at Him, instead of listening and silencing everything that causes anxiety. A way of controlling the conversation for fear of hearing something that is displeasing.
 
01:17:02 Carol Nypaver: Saint Augustine ~ “When the word of God increases, human words fail.”
 
01:17:50 Debra: And how can you tell the difference?
 
01:18:11 Debra: Between desolation, or being drawn deeper?
 
01:19:46 Debra: Good points...linger in those moments...see where God is taking us
 
01:20:39 Rachel: I think St Sophrony and St Silouan speak of this. I wonder is there always a correlation between desolation and being drawn deeper? Almost like suddenly becoming aware in a deeper sense that in ourselves, we lack the capacity to run to Him. To feel His presence
 
01:21:13 Rachel: So we wait, and stay with Him. St Therese speaks of this too
 
01:22:33 Anthony: That is what Purgatory is, per Dante.
 
01:23:01 Anthony: a longing to be free, repaired and pure for love.
 
01:24:21 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father
 
01:24:33 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone
 
01:24:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!!!
 
01:24:36 Rachel: lol yes
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part IV and Hypothesis XXIV

There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety. 
Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity. 
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive.  Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed.
 
00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements.
 
00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me”
 
00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury.  It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense?
 
00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs.
 
00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of.
 
00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course.
 
01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy.
 
01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
 
01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands).
 
01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter
 
01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying
 
01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God.
 
01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way.
 
01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable.
 
01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part X

Tonight we continued with our study of Step 4 on Obedience. As we go deeper into St. John’s writing we begin to see the fruit of this virtue that often remains hidden to our eyes. Our obedience fosters habit; in particular the habit of virtue where one acknowledges that God is a fellow laborer. Obedience also shapes the way that we approach the confession of our sins. It allows us to see their gravity, and it fosters within us the deepest sense of compunction. The fruit of this, however, is a repentance the draws us back into the arms of God swiftly and allows us to experience His healing grace. The great virtue also makes us cherish the gift of the Holy Eucharist more fully. We begin to understand how precious this gift is and so desire to protect our minds and our hearts from the greater attacks that often come after receiving our Lord. It also allows us to see that we do not engage in this battle in isolation but rather we march with the first martyr, that is Christ. Through obedience we always have the Divine Physician with us. If we do fall we are immediately aided and healed by his presence. For this reason we must also choose well a competent spiritual physician, an elder who himself has been formed and shaped by this great virtue. For St. John tells us that obedience brings humility and out of this humility is born dispassion. The more that we walk along this path the more we begin to experience the angelic life; that is, we begin to experience the very peace and the joy of the kingdom, God draws us into the very perfection of His Love.
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:09:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 86, para 63
 
00:14:35 CMoran: I work at WQED so maybe I can run across 5th Ave. for liturgy.
 
00:14:49 CMoran: Cindy
 
00:15:46 Anthony: A lot of restraunters and homeschooling families?
 
00:18:07 Bonnie Lewis: Excellent!
 
00:20:11 Rachel: Thatsna 10 percent down payment in Cali
 
00:20:26 Rachel: lol
 
00:35:38 Marco da Vinha: Though I am a Latin, looking at Forgiveness Sunday just before Lent - the "Tithe of the Year" - brings to mind Mt 5:23-24: "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
 
00:37:51 Eric Ewanco: It's easier to be humble when we are wrong, especially with those who are humble. It is much harder to be humble when we are right, dealing with those who are prideful and arrogant!
 
00:46:54 Kevin Clay: What does John mean by the last part: “For it is better to war with pollutions (thoughts) than with conceit.”
 
00:47:10 Bridget McGinley: What might those additional "spiritual sacrifices" look like after confession?
 
00:48:25 Rachel: Pride versus thoughts of various kinds that show the wounds of our disloyalty. ride may be more difficult and subtle?
 
00:49:05 Br Theophan the non-recluse: @kevin if one presumes that they have truly won the spiritual battle, then they fall prey to the sin of conceit, which is worst being engaged in a spiritual battle, as one is then too spiritually blind to see their sinful state
 
00:49:09 Rachel: Pride* o dear sorry for  the typos
 
00:50:08 Rachel: ty Brother Theophan
 
00:52:45 Carol: Theophan said something similar about the time immediately after Communion, to seek solitude and privacy in one’s room to deepen the intimacy of prayer
 
00:53:48 Eric Ewanco: I believe, Lord, and profess that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, come to this world to save sinners, of whom I am the greatest.  I believe also that this is really your spotless body and that this is really your precious blood.  Wherefore I pray to You: have mercy on me and pardon my offenses, the deliberate and the indeliberate, those committed in word and in deed whether knowingly or inadvertently; and count me worthy to share without condemnation your spotless mysteries, for the remission of sins and for eternal life.
 
Receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in your mystical supper: for I will not betray your mystery to your enemies, nor give You a kiss like Judas, but like the thief, I confess You: remember me, Lord, in your kingdom.
 
00:54:06 Marco da Vinha: Father, a bit of a digression, but do you have any idea of when penances to combat the passions stopped being the norm in the West? My own experience in the confessional has always been "pray X/Y/Z" and never any concrete actions to combat the vices I struggle with. And yet I read recently a saintly 16th century Dominican archbishop advising his priests to give penances according the the sins confessed: fasting for sins of gluttony/lust; almsgiving for avarice; prayer for sloth/acedia...
 
00:55:00 Eric Ewanco: "May the reception of your holy mysteries, Lord, be for me not to judgment or condemnation, but to the healing of (my) soul and body. Amen."
 
01:00:05 Henry Peresie: St. John Vianney was one of those priests who spent many hours in  the confessional.
 
01:04:49 Eric Ewanco: I thought "hesychasm" arose a few centuries after John?
 
01:08:28 Anthony: As David said, something like even his bones groaned.
 
01:18:08 Rachel: This reminds me of the rich young man who encountered Our Lord Himself and went away sad, not willing to give up his attachments. How he followed all of the commandments in obedience..
 
01:18:38 Rachel: yet, God is found in His commandments. Or, hidden in His commandments.
 
01:19:09 Anthony: it makes sense since angels are under obedience and they are in God's happy presence.
 
01:20:04 Anthony: and here i thought they always were talking about not marrying.  wow.
 
01:23:11 Rachel: The older copy's introduction is wonderful!
 
01:24:02 Marco da Vinha: God bless, Father!
 
01:24:08 CMoran: Thank you Father!!!
 
01:24:18 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone
 
01:24:20 Bonnie Lewis: thank you again Father!  Always wonderful.
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part III

A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One?  The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering?  What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts?
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202
 
00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph
 
00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;)
 
00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;)
 
00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel
 
00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes
 
00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here?
 
00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils:  to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not.  The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.
 
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part IX

Tonight we continued our reading of Step 4 on Obedience and its practice in the spiritual life. Saint John, as well as so many of the desert fathers, unearth what we typically keep hidden within our hearts. Rather than living in a spirit of obedience and allowing that obedience to bear the fruit of humility within us by setting aside our own willfulness, we cling to the illusions of self-sufficiency. Despite all that Christ has done and despite all that God has given to us, we believe that we can live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The humility that obedience fosters teaches us that we cannot externalize or distance ourselves from the evil and the sin of the world. There is a radical solidarity between ourselves and others that demands a constant movement of our heart - repentance. Whenever we see evil or sin, our first movement must be toward God in a cry for mercy and healing. We must humbly lay bare our wound to the physician and without being ashamed say: “It is my wound, father, it is my plague, caused by my own negligence, and, not by anything else. No one is to blame for this, no man, no spirit, no body, nothing but my own carelessness.“  We must allow these words to penetrate our hearts to root out all the excuses we put forward in order to remain in a place of mediocrity.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:17:16 Anthony: Congratulations Fr David!
 
00:17:24 CMoran: Question: What is Prelest? I off-topic--If not appropriate, please ignore the question.
 
00:17:53 CMoran: Sorry..."IF"
 
00:17:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I missed what you said Father  Where are you assigned?
 
00:18:02 Mark Kelly: Prelest is like a spiritual illusion of ones self.
 
00:18:18 Edward Kleinguetl: SS Peter & Paul in Duquesne, PA
 
00:18:20 Eric Ewanco: Prelast is Spiritual deception, I'm sure Father can elaorate
 
00:21:14 Mark Kelly: Prelest, in the extreme, is seeing one’s self as a prophet or spiritual guide or some exulted person. In common terms it is something we all must deal with. Spiritually deceiving ourselves.
 
00:53:01 Edward Kleinguetl: A priest once told me in confession that "no reformer ever had bitterness in his heart."
 
00:53:33 Edward Kleinguetl: And I have to remind myself of that frequently.
 
00:55:35 Marco da Vinha: What you say, Father, reminds me both of St. Nektarios - who carried out penance for his seminarians faults - as well as St. Bartholomew of Braga - who, as an archbishop, would, on occasion, do penance for his priests' sins.
 
00:57:14 Ambrose Little, OP: There’s also the observation you (Father) have mentioned many times, which is the challenge of clinging to one's own judgment being perhaps one of the most difficult failures in humility to overcome. It’s always worth meditating on the likely possibility that our own judgment may be in error or, at the very least, that our interpretation of another's words and actions may be in error. (Not talking about glaring and established moral failures like the abuse scandals, but the more common criticisms that this or that pastor is not saying what we’d have them say.)
 
00:58:37 Anthony: Being one who thinks a LOT - thinking and ruminating too much is not healthy.  Prayer is where the goodness and healing is (at the very least, it's an emotional outlet to get rid of the thoughts), but the devil's fog machine blinds us to its availability.  My parish priest said something in a homily like: we often make our own crosses and they are too heavy; the cross God makes for us is better and easier for us.
 
01:02:03 Marco da Vinha: @Anthony, I think Dostoevsky put it best in Notes from the Underground when the narrator says "To think too much is a disease." I have found that to be very much the case in my own life
 
01:09:32 Lee Graham: We are all guilty
 
01:09:38 Marco da Vinha: Father, is the kind of Confession that the Fathers mention different than the sacrament of Penance as we understand it now in the West? Was this Confession that took place within the elder/disciple relationship? The Fathers tell us to reveal our inner thoughts, our inner wounds in Confession, yet we are brought up in the West with the "just state kind and number" approach to Confession. Many times we don't give the priest much context, and we receive no advice either about our vices, even when the same priest here's our confessions on a regular basis.
 
01:10:09 Babington (or Babi): It and your comments are very helpful. Thank you.
 
01:16:00 Bridget McGinley: Father can the evil one enter the confessional and disturb either the priest or the penitent during the confession?
 
01:19:34 CMoran: Thank you Father! And thank you everyone!
 
01:19:43 Marco da Vinha: Thank you Father! Goodnight!
 
01:20:37 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father! Such a grace!
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VIII

We continued our reading of Step 4 from the Ladder of Divine Ascent on Obedience and the spirit with which it is practiced. What one begins to see in the writings of the Fathers is that obedience is not slavishness that destroys the personality or the will of the other. It arises out of a relationship; first and foremost the relationship between the Father and the Son that brought about our salvation; wherein Christ through the Spirit of love became obedient even unto death on the cross. Obedience within this world and obedience to one’s spiritual father is rooted in a similar relationship of mutual love. Spiritual father and son must be well disposed to each other in order that what is given and what is received is done so in love. Only then will bear fruit and only then will it bring a kind of invincible joy. To live in obedience is to find freedom; freedom from fear and anxiety, freedom from the darkness that sin brings to us.  Through obedience we always have someone to guide us back to the narrow way, one who shows us the light that allows us to move forward. Let us pray through Saint John Climacus that God would cultivate this great virtue within our hearts. 
---
Text of chat during the group: 
00:07:47 FrDavid Abernethy: page 83, para 45
 
00:28:54 Daniel Allen: The blog “Glory to God for all things” had a great article on this titled “saving knowledge and blessed ignorance”. What we don’t know can be more important than what we know, and what we know is much less than we like to think.
 
00:31:02 Anthony: On one hand, I think he's right.  On the other hand, does one have a responsibility to try and share specialized knowledge for guidance to a perceived good or guidance away from a bad thing - but with discretion in how you propose the idea?
 
00:41:54 Rachel: That is extremely rare but so very beautiful.
 
00:47:26 Bridget McGinley: How does one reconcile in practice the advice in the Psalms and other Biblical verses like “ It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man” with the virtue of obedience and trust in a confessor/elder? Especially if there have been grave misunderstandings in the past.
 
00:56:52 Daniel Allen: St. Ambrose to St. Monica: ““God’s time will come,” the bishop reassured her, but she was so persistent he finally urged, “Go now, I beg you. It is not possible that the son of so many tears should perish.””
 
00:57:49 Debra: ❤️
 
01:04:25 Rachel: lol
 
01:08:31 Ambrose Little: depends on who the sub is
 
01:08:41 Debra: 😁
 
01:11:38 Ren Witter: This is so true! Even in my dreams, I find myself asking: what would my spiritual father think of this or that behavior? It becomes such a deeply established way of thinking. Its really beautiful, and a blessing. Another reason that the habit of exposing one's thoughts to a Father is so good - knowing that you will tell him everything, you become more careful with what you allow yourself to do. Such wise advice
01:13:23 Debra: So my biggest take away is of spiritual maturity...but does that maturity come *from* obedience; or does the obedience need to come first to gain that spiritual maturity
 
Like the monk that was willing to accept years of penance...that would take spiritual maturity...but if he had that, he wouldn't have needed the penance...or am I missing something?
 
01:13:58 Debra: Yes, exactly
 
01:14:00 Debra: lol
 
01:14:42 Ambrose Little: Wise words from Bob: "baby steps"
 
01:16:18 Debra: Thank you that's a deeper take away
 
01:18:25 Babington (or Babi): Hope to contribute someday. Thank you very much. God bless you all. 🙏🏼🤍
 
01:20:29 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much for all that you do Ren!
 
01:21:07 Ambrose Little: the "non-recluse” lol that's awesome
 
01:21:19 Ren Witter: Yes!! I just saw that. Hahah. Amazing
 
01:21:38 Br Theophan the non-recluse: It’s been the most consistent joke since my investiture last weekend🤣
 
01:22:09 Carol Nypaver: Hooray!
 
01:22:31 Sheila Applegate: Congratulations!
 
01:22:46 Rachel: Bro Theophan is in Cali? Yay =)
 
01:23:21 Br Theophan the non-recluse: 2.5 hours north of San Fran!
 
01:23:23 CMoran: Thank you Father!
 
01:23:27 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:23:30 Debra: Thank you!
 
01:23:31 Rachel: Sacramento here
 
01:23:33 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father!
 
01:23:39 Bonnie Lewis: Bye all!
 
01:23:41 Rachel: Goodnoght Father!
 

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXIII, Part II

We continued to listen to the Father‘s counsel on avoiding relationships or circumstances that can bring us spiritual harm. Such thought is not guided by a lack of love or charity or hospitality; rather it is rooted in an understanding that we are first to love the Lord our God with all of our mind, soul, heart, and strength. It is only having our love ordered and directed toward Him that our love of the things and and people within the world can be rightly ordered. We were given one example after another of how necessary it is to discern when relationships are drawing us away from God or the ways that the devil can use us through our negligence to harm others spiritually. We don’t engage in the spiritual battle in a state of isolation. Nor do we seek to live the life of virtue simply for ourselves. Love demands that we be attentive to loving God above all things in order that we might draw all toward Christ. 
Such simplicity and clarity in the way that one views the world and oneself, creates the purity of heart that is necessary to discern the path and the will of God.
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Text of chat during the group: 
00:29:57 Anthony: This is how I learned there was something wrong with some Catholic commentators.  They left me agitated about the legal aspect of the Faith....am I searching myself well enough, did I do this good enough? etc.  Jansenism
 
00:30:31 Anthony: on the church
 
00:30:37 Anthony: correcting the Novus ordo
 
00:30:42 Anthony: noveau telogie
 
00:32:36 Emma C: Where do we see the line between judging others vs judging their actions to know who to avoid?
 
00:35:42 Kevin Clay: I think we need to see that we can be that “foolish and thoughtless friend” to ourselves and not just others. We can be unwise, greedy, quarrelsome, arrogant, etc. We need to separate ourselves from our passions and the things that stir the passions.
 
00:44:37 Rachel: I was wondering about what you just mentioned. About being detached from ego. I was told recently to " Be at peace." in relation to something I did not realize was a distraction. At first, it made me wonder and uncomfortable. Since if I am not at peace, then something of what I spoke of must not be of God. It reminded me instantly of what a holy and wise priest told me. He said, not to speculate over matters. and it was clear, that the only thing needed was to stay in the moment with Our Lord.
 
00:45:35 Rachel: That these distractions are a result of idle distractions,no matter how good they appear. That God will take care of each moment and situation in His good Providence.
 
00:50:27 Debra: St. Bonaventure has a beautiful post-Communion prayer
 
https://tinyurl.com/4de5cj7z
 
00:50:54 Anthony: Thinking of just yourself and God:  In "A Man for All Seasons," St. Thomas More tries to break Richard Rich from avarice by telling him of the honor he would have as a mere teacher before God as his audience.  Had Richard Rich followed this advice, he would have avoided his moral downfall later on, and maybe even in his saving his soul, much of England would have been spared some of the violence of the 1500s. "Acquire a spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved." ~ St. Seraphim of Sarov
 
00:58:18 carolnypaver: If he had just said “no” the people would have wondered if the “brigand” would have been released IF ONLY the Elder had asked.  The Elder removed all doubt.
 
01:03:03 Rachel: I left a comment above about something you addressed. It seems his current reading ties into the discipline it takes to be detached not only from the things of this world but from oneself as well. Since our nous can be darkened, idle curiosities and distractions can wreak havoc in one's own life and those around them. Since the person given to these distractions will act from that skewed vision instead of the pure place of ordering everything to God and His good will alone
 
01:18:14 Rachel: You mentioned that purity in our day will be like the martyrs, because of the way the world is..in a beautiful homily our priest once gave, he mentioned St. Catherine of Siena. How she felt desperately that our Lord had left her in grave temptations. Yetm he reassured her that not only had he not left her but that she was more pleasing to him.
 
01:18:40 Rachel: So, it seems that fighting to stay with our Lord wont always feel rosy.
 
01:19:15 Ambrose Little: Advertising is not like in the old days. Moby Dick was a 900 page advert for the whaling industry. 😄
 
01:19:19 Anthony: The images themselves are very important in a post-rational environment when the senses and memory are wounded.  The Serbian Orthodox Church on YouTube has a 7 part series on the Icon and the contrast of iconic images versus the images that assault us.
 
01:20:04 Rachel: Thatis a wonderful series
 
01:22:08 Ren Witter: paypal.me/philokaliaministries
 
01:23:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you REn
 
01:24:41 Daniel Swinington: thank you
 
01:24:47 Rachel: Thank you!
 
01:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! (And Ren 😎)
 

The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter IV: On Obedience, Part VII

Reading the Fathers takes us to the very heart of the gospel and in doing so they pull us out of our comfort zone. Obedience is the true path to freedom. But freedom comes at a cost and perfect freedom comes through self-sacrificing love. It is cruciform. All that we were presented with this evening made it very clear that our life is to be a deep immersion in the Paschal Mystery; that is, a profound dying and rising. We are dying to self and sin and rising to new life in Christ. This is the path to salvation and St. John tells us that to turned away from the obedience of Christ, to turn away from the mortification of reason,  judgment and self-will, is to turn away from the Love that has saved us. Every time we receive the Holy Eucharist we say, “Amen”, so be it. We say, “Let this be the reality in my life. Let me be conformed to Christ in self- emptying and obedient love. To hold on to our will, to hold on to our self-centeredness makes it impossible for us both to receive and give love. May God open our eyes that we may see the truth of this and follow the way that Christ has set before us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82 paragraph 39
 
00:13:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82
 
00:16:04 Fr. Miron Jr.: no
 
00:31:35 renwitter: I really appreciate that he mentions the manual labor even in this small paragraph about the prison. Helpful to remember that during a time of repentance - of fasting and deep prayer - the Fathers themselves recommended some kind of small work to help the heart along, and allow the stillness to come. Making prayer ropes works great too ;-)
 
00:32:27 Debra: And you make beautiful prayer ropes

The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXII, Part V and Hypothesis XXIII, Part I

Reading the Fathers often pierces the heart and changes our perspective upon life and our perception of reality itself. We continued with our reading of the fathers’ exhortation not to engage those who can bring harm to us in the spiritual life. This is often troublesome to modern sensibilities. The call to evangelize draws us out to engage the world. But what are we to give if we simply allow ourselves to be drawn back into the slavery of sin? We have to radically abandon our lives to Christ, conform our minds and hearts to His, and seek to live in obedience to His Will before we can bear witness to others. It is often said you cannot give what you do not have and the Fathers understood this in the fullest measure. We are capable of living a life of religion on the surface; of becoming comfortable with mediocrity and a religion of our own creation. Sometimes we do reduce our faith to a psychological construct and in this sense the modern critique of religion is on point. We have to be ever discerning of the deep attachment that we have to sin, to the things that lead to sin.  We must not live under the illusion that we are impervious to the power of the passions or temptation. We must be discerning, discriminating, in regards to everything that we experience within this world to determine whether or not it is from God. St Paul once said “we take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ.”This could be said of every relationship, every circumstance, we experience within this world. All things must be brought into the full light of the Truth.
 
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Text of chat during the group:
 
00:05:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 195 letter K
 
00:30:07 Bridget McGinley: St Cyril of Alexandria wrote "Every creature loves his kind therefore those with vices like those with similar vices". I feel like this means we must know our vices well so that we know who we will be attracted to and could be stumbling blocks. "Holy peace is not found here" he added.  Yes, Facebook is very dangerous and social media is very dangerous. I need to take this advice seriously.
 
00:34:21 Anthony: I just realized, the evil eye - mal'occhio - is about envy.  It's a serious thing, for both Christians and pagans.
 
00:35:27 Carol: Envy is a spirit of hades. It battles unceasingly against righteousness and God...envy never stops, the spirit of hades envies all men for all things... elder Thaddeus.
 
00:41:32 Bridget McGinley: Crushing pressure to be inside the "wokeness"
 
00:42:07 Eric Williams: In 1931, Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen wrote the following essay:
 
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance-it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
 
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
 
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”
 
00:43:48 Carol Nypaver: Amen!  Venerable Archbishop Fulton John Sheen, pray for us!
 
00:54:05 Carol: it seems like this is a common message in the church as you said, and even the confessional
 
01:01:05 Anthony: Trauma reminds me of the story about the alcoholic monk who became alcoholic after seeing his village massacred when he was a child.
 
01:01:58 Paul Grazal: +1 On The Eight Vices manuscript Father.  Thank You.
 
01:20:13 sue and mark: it is good to wrestle with it
 
01:21:08 Emma C: When we are told to turn away from people who are stumbling blocks for us in the spiritual life, how do we evangelize others if we turn away from everyone who isn't helping us grow spiritually?
 
01:24:14 Rachel: Thank you!